Cole Comments from Inquisition (Trespasser): 9:12 - "He broke the dreams to stop the old dreams from waking. The wolf chews its leg off to escape the trap." 13:37 - "He did not want a body. But she asked him to come. He left a scar when he burned her off his face." 18:08 - "They made bodies from the earth. And the earth was afraid. It fought back. But they made it forget."
Damn, so this makes me think Solas at one point had a vallaslin to Mythal and eventually removed it himself because he didn’t want to be tied to anything anymore. I’m guess before he started the rebellion
Am I the only one who believes that Mythal is responsible for everything that happened and not Solas? Solas doesn't want a body, he doesn't want to use this weapon, he warns Mythal about the Blight and the other elves, he's desperate and unhappy and she really ignores everything and has her way. So in the end he only has this one option left.
You aren't the only one. I think he deserved a better ending, to be truly free (with his love, Lavellan, if you went that route). Yet she continues on and he.... yeah
@mecha_animus He is the subordinate of Mythal, her servant. She has decided everything, is responsible for all the evil and is allowed to continue to live freely and he will forever be the guilty one and after 1 minute with his inquisitor he is damned again this time into the fade. And then bioware decided solas kills Varric Why? Why is Varric the only one who has to die? That seems to me like they really wanted to portray Solas as a villain.
@BlackSky25 None of that made sense to me. Why kill Varric and then ask Rook to tell Varric he regrets what happened? That was so weird. Also when she released him he started glowing which was also strange. It made it seem like he was under her thrall? All the games made it seem like Mythal had plans ("a reckoning to shake the very heavens") and she was interfering in events of the world to make them go along the path she desired. I just feel like she was responsible for all of this and let Solas take the blame forever. She didn't force him, he chose to do all of this willingly, but I believe she took advantage of the reverence and love he had for her to manipulate him into doing all those terrible things. It was sad. She should have taken her power back from him and then tied herself to the Veil. Make Solas mortal and let him make amends by living among the people he hurt and trying to do right by them. Like Blackwall.
I thought the lore in previous DA games was Mythal and Elgar'nan were married or partners, leading the elven pantheon, and had twin children Falon'din (Guide to the dead) and Dirthamen (Keeper of Secrets) Mythal and Solas were close friends but not lovers, and it makes sense that Mythal being betrayed by her partner Elgar'nan is reflected in Flemeths story and how they understand each other... Morrigan also comments on this with Mythals wisdom. *Curious if Andrastate was also guided by Mythal given she was the makers bride (Elgar'nan, also known as the All Father) and if she was trying to create something to counter the elven gods who betrayed her. If the religion spread to all corners of the world then the elven gods would no longer be worshiped and have less power with the blight.
Ok that make sense. Because Solas said that the Evanuris need the blight and faith to continue their plan. By creating a new faith based on a martyred female prophet (Mythal's vessel/Andraste) and the "Maker" (Mythal's soul), she could deter or at least hinder the future plan of the Evanuris.
@@anders8461 And in similar fashion to Mythal and Flemeth, Andraste was betrayed by her lover/husband as well. I wonder if it could be tied to something as like a curse for Mythals essense to live on in the world.
Me: oh man I'm so excited for veilguard i hope they have some subtle nuanced things to say about Solas' life as an old god Veilguard: SOLAS AND MYTHAL WERE FUCKING LOL
@@FaeQueenCoryI don't think DA universe has a God. The Stone is just a a small remnant of the Titans connection to the dwarves, the Maker might be Mythal's soul guiding Andraste who was her vessel, the Qun's Koslun was a philosopher and we all know the Evanuris are a bunch of ultra powerful elven mages.
Oh God I hate how Bioware portray Mythal and Solas' relationship like that. They were suppose to be a master and servant who happen to be a pair of BFF
Do you think these revelations would feel more “appropriate” (so to speak) for the player/story, if it was conveyed via purely the mosaics and not the companions just feeding back what we heard literally seconds ago? I have no problem with them sharing their perspective or feelings on these revelations, but just repeating what we just listened to seconds ago is just, egregious to say the least.
The fact that basically none of this is revealed through the main story is pretty shitty. It feels like they added this as an afterthought to satisfy previous dragon age players.
What's with all the "I'm sorry Lace" this is ancient history, basically at the primordial level. This isn't the history of modern day dwarves. This is something that precedes even them. And it is this history that allows them to exist as they are, otherwise they'd remain mindless constructs to the titans (hence no free will as they would enthralled to the singing of the titans). There is no point patronizing them at every instance, as this was how their free will was developed.
Also Harding is a surface dwarf, she has no connection to the stone until this game. They really fumbled the writing for this game, all the nuance and context that would have made these revolutions cool are absent, it just feel like they just throwing the answers out there
@darktirkd7395 Varric already had this discussion with Solas if you listen to their banter. As Varric says the "Stone" is the past and if returning to it meant giving up who he was now then it is better left where it is. Moreover, contrary to what Harding was saying that Solas didn't care or lacked remorse during Inquisition is blatantly false. Again his banter with Varric reveals this.
Well they clearly pushing this was made for modern audience bs, i'd take the "I'm sorry Lace" is the equivalent of "white guilt" that is happening right now in our society or at least in the west or something like when a white woman feels offended by a white dude just because he wears a sombrero and she says "hey that's offensive"
21:11 I don't know why Harding is so mad... By neutering the Titans, it freed the dwarves from being their slaves so that they could grow and establish their own society.
Yeah, he just cut away their dreams and also led those dreams to become mad and attack their empire where thousands of dwarves died for two centuries in a row. No reasons to be mad indeed...
Their bodies being made of lyrium and the earth would explain Ghil's experimentation with the Qunari. Ghil was trying to do the same thing but with Dragon's blood. Or were they her prototypes of creating the archdemons we eventually got. (That being why they were considered accidents) On another note: did the other Evanuris die during the blights we know or some other way?
yes they did actually, the 5 previous Archdemons had their souls (which were the respective Elvunari's spirit minus Beauty if the ritual was performed) destroyed so their "bodies" in the Fade are brain dead and are no longer a threat
Ghil did not create Qunari, Taash story tells us that the Qunari came to be due to their flight from the Executors. They mixed their blood with Dragons to survive what is coming (in DA5 according to the ending).
It sounds like they couldn’t come up with something better so they just took the fan theory or basic theory from inquisition and make them canon. (Edit: As many have pointed out to me, yes all of this was foreshadowed in Trespasser, however it feel like the notes of what happened. I was expecting a lot more context about the ancient world and what it actually looked like, how the forgotten ones were in this, how Lyirum works and why some titans are alive while others are dead. I also wanted to known about the hidden Dwarf city’s. I really wanted more context)
@ I guess what I hate is that they stripped away all the context from the lore, Solas states it took a long time before the Evanuris were treated like gods but here they are just gods, why were the old gods put into underground chambers, no reason. Why did they spirits wants to become elves: just cuz. No nuance
@@darktirkd7395 That's probably how the evanuris convinced the majority of elves to believe they were God's. Slowly. You don't immediately declare yourself that you slowly try to convince/ indoctrinate people. The archdeamons were underground if I remember because they were essentially the insurance policy to make sure they wouldn't die. As for why they wanted to become elves, that's left up to interpretation, at least to my reading of it. But it seems like they found more power there.
@@darktirkd7395 That's probably how the evanuris convinced the majority of elves to believe they were God's. Slowly. You don't immediately declare yourself that you slowly try to convince people. The archdeamons were underground if I remember because they were essentially the insurance policy to make sure they wouldn't die. As for why they wanted to become elves, that's left up to interpretation, at least to my reading of it. But it seems like they found more power there.
@@darktirkd7395 You know it was hindsighted from the first game? That this scene is builded on three games, it's not like it's a fan theory, it was a fact
He needed to unlock the orb because he was powerless st the time and he hoped that Cory would unlock it's power and Solas would try to steal the orb from Cory
@@anders8461 That's right, but he didn't regret it for some reason. It turned out to be a mistake. I guess it's possible that he doesn't regret it because nobody BUT corypheus could have unlocked it. (Mythal said no?)
yeah I'm satisfied with the answers on how the Blight appeared, why the Golden City was empty and how Archdemons are created (since the Old Gods/Elvunaris are spirits, they possess dragons which become Archdemons when the conditions of a Blight happen which allowed their prison to be weakened enough that they can escape albeit without their bodies since that requires the Fade to be torn open)
"Let's deliver earthshaking loredumps with a literal roundtable discussion while our party members drink tea and whet knives. That won't be dull at all!"
I agree the round table talk was awfully cringe. i personally hoped we would get to see some great cinamatic flashbacks that showed the evanuris's downfall. So i am deeply dissapointed that all we got are some static murals with bits of audio slapped onto it
That was probably how it happened IRL at the writers' meeting, and you can see from their reactions how much they were enjoying it (not): particularly the "whetting a knife" -- I take it as a smartphone metaphor.
@@Pagliaccio1976 it certainly doesn't give the respect that should be afforded Solas' past and inner thoughts. Let alone that certain members like Tash and Devrin should be kicked out. They don't contribute to the discussion aside such juvenile remarks or obvious statements.
@@Dragonage2ftw It's called being respectful, especially from a guy we fought alongside with at the previous game. Knowing where these came from and how these contain such personal thoughts. That you'd have some muscle for brains just emphasizing that the two were "totally doing it" is not only reductive but insulting for fans for Mythal and Solas, when clearly they had a much connection that was beyond the physical (they were spirits). As I said they just had so little contribute to the discussion, I understand Tash really shouldn't be here, but that these personal thoughts and memories of Solas would be treated so impersonally does rub me the wrong way coming from DAI. It also undermines the tension of the earth shattering revelations of the blight's source and of the fade and the spirits, which upheave the Andraste belief. It doesn't present the gravity of the discovery when you're just there casually and even worse you have members downplaying it and acting non-chalant about it.
Seems to be a common thing in this game. Watched someone play like the first 4 hours or something. They keep repeating what you just witnessed with your own eyes, they keep repeating what someone just said like a minute ago. Dreadful writing. Clearly aimed at TikTok kids with a 3 second attention span.
this kinda ruined solavellan romance for me lol seems like there's more content for mythal x solas than solas x inquisitor.. even in ending scene, where they look longingly at each other.. i waited 10 years for solavellan resolution
@@qorwynne The difference for me is that in trepasser Solas didn't want to take our Inquisitor with him. Now that he is free, there is no more hesitation, he immediately accepts that the Inquisitor will accompany him. For many centuries, Mythal was a friend, his mentor, the person who mattered to him. But Solas love and respects belongs to our Inquisitor
@@WHlSKYtx It's not about the fact that they were involved, I wouldn't mind that. It's about the fact that Lavellan sacrifices so much for him, and chases him all the time, but nothing he does in this game shows that he genuinely cares or wants to be with her. Before leaving to the Fade, *he doesn't even look at her or says a word to her* , it is her following him, and he doesn't even seem happy about it. It's about the fact that in the Inquisition it was showed that he was doing things for People, the Elves, the Spirits - all of which the Veil affects negatively, and now it seems that he does all of that, because he is longing after Mythal. It's about the fact that him doing all of that for Mythal cheapens his character.
@@BlackSky25no, I am sorry but solas in DAI + trespasser and here are definitely different people. We need to stop gaslighting ourself by believing they are.
@gromdal9293 i agree to some degree, but how come Solas and Mythal motovations have been changed, and their last meeting in the DA:I told completely differently? In the Veilguard, everyone presents it as the biggest betrayal, Mythal is cold and doesn't approve of his plans. In the Inquisition, there was love, sorrow and understanding between them - and the devnotes for that scene back then specifically said that she nurtured the powers over the hundreds of years, because she knew Solas will need it to save the elven people - not only she was with him on this plan, Solas also was genuinely doing it for the people, not from delusions that this is the world Mythal wanted.
@@pativi6643 So the history has been written in raw bits, maybe like bullet points. Like elves were spirit, elves killed titans. But they never decided in advance what to do with it. Thats why all incosistencies. What does it mean save elven people? There could be a draft of the story where saving means destroying the veil or restoring old magic. This directuon was never set and they changed it a lot. Solas was never suposed to exist as Solas, thats Inqusition addition. But Dreadwolf was always there and was responsible for creating the veil.
I'm sorry but is Harding mad about not being a literal ant in all but body? However much you pity the Titans in their madness, their absence made things better for Dwarves, not worse
So the ancient elves needed a Lyrium crystal to make a body? Explain Cole then. He didn’t need a lyrium crystal to create a body. He didn’t need anything (besides Varric, RIP). And if they were now physical bodies, does that mean they couldn’t return to spirit form? If true, then the codex entry in Trespasser where “two elven lovers make bodies of energy and fly through the air and spend an eternity with one another” is irrelevant now huh?
Cole didn't create a body; he was a Spirit of Compassion who reanimated the body of the human mage boy who died of starvation in the White Spire. That might be why he didn't need a lyrium catalyst, but honest to god, I... I don't trust the writers thought that far.
@@llewleyn Nope, Cole didn't possess a body, that was the entire point in Asunder. He thought he was Cole, but he was just a body-less spirit that took on Cole's personality (like the spirit that impersonates Justinia in DAI). And his quest line in DAI is literally you encouraging him to either return back to being a spirit or become more human and lose a bunch of his abilities.
@@llewleyn true until Cole reanimated the dead body of a little boy. He was a spirit who can (with inquisitors help) turn into a real person or be more spirit. My comment was referring more about turning Cole more human. According to Varric, Cole just needed to work through his emotions, and once he does that, Cole becomes more human. Still no lyrium crystal. I swear, the new writers for dragon age found all the fan theories we’ve been discussing and chose to make them all true. (Solas is the maker [well chant of light says the black city was once the makers house])
Mythal: "The lyrium gives us the strength we had when we were of the Fade. We are the best of physical and spirit." This implies that, without lyrium, they could take a physical form, but one that doesn't have magic. The lyrium, being a physical form of magic, allows them to have both.
you know, i think the people that critique dragon age veilguard's story... doesn't have dig into the game properly... after see all of this so the only error that we can imputate to Bioware is not put those information as part of main story but behind a sidequest
Well we did know that it was possibly tied to the evanuris because corypheus stated that he found the black city in the blighted state. We also knew that the evanuris were incredibly powerful elven mages who were tempering with dangerous magic. We also knew that some of them were experimenting on other elves as well as other living beings (the halla). And we knew the vallasin was the slavering marks. So yeah everything already pointed to them being responsible in the first place. Im just disappointed that it's not presented as deep as i thought it should have been
So dies that mean that the titans are "the forgotten ones" then? Because lore wise Solas was considered one of them as well and supposedly tricked them into being imprisoned too. Does that mean that the titans are the forgotten ones and sklas, as a wisdom spirit was able to trick the titand into giving up their blkod to craft a lyrium dagger that he then used to imprison the titans and sever them from their dreams which became red lyrium due to madness and causes the blight?
Yeah, the Evanuris should never have been the Old Gods. I mean, Tresspaser tell us that the Evanuris were all-mighty mages, tyrants that made the Tevinter Magisters look like babies but, hey, maybe they weren't all that powerful if the Grey Wardens already killed five of them. What a waste. I wanted to see Andruil, Dirthamen and Falon'din in person, now I'm not going to have the chance.
I didn't quite get it - the Blight was a byproduct of war between Evanuris and the Titans or Titans were euthanized for elven gods to have bodies of flesh?
@@Xxsorafan That's not it. It's a spoiler, but the origin of the Blight was revealed in the game, it's related to the Titans. But what's not clear when it happened. During the war with the titans or after.
The corrupted dreams of titans. The embodiment of their rage at the elves who severed them from the fade with the lyrium dagger. The only way to contain that was to seal it away
@@lordofgingers In the end it looks like the evil elves wanted physical bodies for themselves, that's why they went to war with the Titans. But the war wasn't going too well so they had severed their dreams and made them brainless stone. Those dreams turned into Blight that was stashed away by Solas and Mythal until evil elves found it and started using it for power.
Hold up. Question. There were FIVE BLIGHTS. Seven gods sealed within the Veil. Does that mean during those 5 five blights those archdemons that were killed were actually 5 of the elven 'gods' that were trying to escape??? If so then that would mean Elgaran and Ghil are the last 2. Things to think about.
@adityasivaram6175 I know, just use anti plagiarism programs but I don't really use them anymore. Just seems funny with the response it generated that it is "80% confident that the speech is AI generated due to the poor flow and clunkiness of the conversation". I kinda get why, playing the game now and the dialogue is awful, especially when I have just come through a fresh run of DAI which is way superior.
@adityasivaram6175 yep, it is feeling robotic. Like compare arguments in DAI where characters bounced off eachother and it feels natural, they are arguing points they just heard etc (Varric and Cassandra over Hawke). This one, it feels like the arguments don't flow, like they had time to research what they were going to say and practiced the line, no "heat of the moment" statements or immediate regret from saying thing (except *that* scene)
have to say making the Old Gods be the same as the Elvunaris is really clever and must have been planned from way back in the very beginning. Minus Fen Harel and Mythal, you have exactly seven Elvunaris which is the exact number of Old Gods worshipped by Tevinter
Are these meant to be amazing revelations??? They're all so... awful and anticlimatic.. we waited 10 years for THIS??? The lipsync is horrific, the group looks like one of those chat groups talking absolute nonsense and seeming to think we are morons by having to repeat it all after we saw it. This game is a JOKE!!
Okay this is weird but stay with me, where is the throne Corphius spoke about? He said he went to the centre of creation or something and found it empty. If the Golden City was a prison for the blight why did he see a throne? For that matter why did the Golden City change when he reached it? And why did the Elven gods decide to wipe the world with the blight if they already were worshiped by the Tvinter as gods?
1)In the black city. Was likely an elven palace or something like that used as the prison. 2)It was already black when he got there. 3)They believed that the blight was something they could control and use to reshape the world into something beautiful. But in truth, they could never master the blight. Nobody could. Solas knew this and that’s why he sealed it away along with the people who were crazy and powerful enough to try. The evanuris
You know whats the worse offender in all of this?. Is that they all repeat what was literally spoon fed to you in the murals. Then whats exactly is the point in showing them id all they going to do is needlessly info dumping around the the table. 😂😂🤨🙄
I can't listen to Davrin without picturing him complaining about "primitives" and trolling everyone. Yes, he's voiced by the same guy who voiced Javik, which is hilarious since Harding is voiced by Liara's VA.
Am I the only one irked by them constantly throwing the term "epic" around to describe anything awe-inspiring? The dialogue sounds like cringey marvel schlock with all the millennial slang they keep using.
Cole Comments from Inquisition (Trespasser):
9:12 - "He broke the dreams to stop the old dreams from waking. The wolf chews its leg off to escape the trap."
13:37 - "He did not want a body. But she asked him to come. He left a scar when he burned her off his face."
18:08 - "They made bodies from the earth. And the earth was afraid. It fought back. But they made it forget."
Damn….Cole you beautiful bastard, guess it was planned after all I guess I wanted more context for the how of it.
Apparently there’s a lore masterdoc all the way back from origins that they base the games off of
Damn, so this makes me think Solas at one point had a vallaslin to Mythal and eventually removed it himself because he didn’t want to be tied to anything anymore. I’m guess before he started the rebellion
Am I the only one who believes that Mythal is responsible for everything that happened and not Solas? Solas doesn't want a body, he doesn't want to use this weapon, he warns Mythal about the Blight and the other elves, he's desperate and unhappy and she really ignores everything and has her way. So in the end he only has this one option left.
though im still mad he killed flemeth
@rohilnagar6991 Isn't that also Mythal's fault? after all, she took over Flemeth and allowed it to happen. I think both women knew this was happening.
You aren't the only one. I think he deserved a better ending, to be truly free (with his love, Lavellan, if you went that route). Yet she continues on and he.... yeah
@mecha_animus He is the subordinate of Mythal, her servant. She has decided everything, is responsible for all the evil and is allowed to continue to live freely and he will forever be the guilty one and after 1 minute with his inquisitor he is damned again this time into the fade. And then bioware decided solas kills Varric Why? Why is Varric the only one who has to die? That seems to me like they really wanted to portray Solas as a villain.
@BlackSky25 None of that made sense to me. Why kill Varric and then ask Rook to tell Varric he regrets what happened? That was so weird. Also when she released him he started glowing which was also strange. It made it seem like he was under her thrall? All the games made it seem like Mythal had plans ("a reckoning to shake the very heavens") and she was interfering in events of the world to make them go along the path she desired. I just feel like she was responsible for all of this and let Solas take the blame forever. She didn't force him, he chose to do all of this willingly, but I believe she took advantage of the reverence and love he had for her to manipulate him into doing all those terrible things. It was sad. She should have taken her power back from him and then tied herself to the Veil. Make Solas mortal and let him make amends by living among the people he hurt and trying to do right by them. Like Blackwall.
I thought the lore in previous DA games was Mythal and Elgar'nan were married or partners, leading the elven pantheon, and had twin children Falon'din (Guide to the dead) and Dirthamen (Keeper of Secrets) Mythal and Solas were close friends but not lovers, and it makes sense that Mythal being betrayed by her partner Elgar'nan is reflected in Flemeths story and how they understand each other... Morrigan also comments on this with Mythals wisdom.
*Curious if Andrastate was also guided by Mythal given she was the makers bride (Elgar'nan, also known as the All Father) and if she was trying to create something to counter the elven gods who betrayed her. If the religion spread to all corners of the world then the elven gods would no longer be worshiped and have less power with the blight.
Ok that make sense. Because Solas said that the Evanuris need the blight and faith to continue their plan. By creating a new faith based on a martyred female prophet (Mythal's vessel/Andraste) and the "Maker" (Mythal's soul), she could deter or at least hinder the future plan of the Evanuris.
@@anders8461 And in similar fashion to Mythal and Flemeth, Andraste was betrayed by her lover/husband as well. I wonder if it could be tied to something as like a curse for Mythals essense to live on in the world.
The lore about the gods was fragmented on purpose. There was always evidence for both, but it was the dalish who mostly push the marriage lore.
Me: oh man I'm so excited for veilguard i hope they have some subtle nuanced things to say about Solas' life as an old god
Veilguard: SOLAS AND MYTHAL WERE FUCKING LOL
It doesn't even make any sense because they were originally gods/spirits...
@@FaeQueenCoryI don't think DA universe has a God. The Stone is just a a small remnant of the Titans connection to the dwarves, the Maker might be Mythal's soul guiding Andraste who was her vessel, the Qun's Koslun was a philosopher and we all know the Evanuris are a bunch of ultra powerful elven mages.
Oh God I hate how Bioware portray Mythal and Solas' relationship like that. They were suppose to be a master and servant who happen to be a pair of BFF
How does that ruin the ‘nuance’?
Not sure why one of the people in the group having a crass theory ruins the entire thing for you.
These are huge revelations holy moly
Do you think these revelations would feel more “appropriate” (so to speak) for the player/story, if it was conveyed via purely the mosaics and not the companions just feeding back what we heard literally seconds ago?
I have no problem with them sharing their perspective or feelings on these revelations, but just repeating what we just listened to seconds ago is just, egregious to say the least.
The fact that basically none of this is revealed through the main story is pretty shitty. It feels like they added this as an afterthought to satisfy previous dragon age players.
it's to add context for those less familiar with the lore
Are you suggesting that players have at least half brain and would understand what they saw????? Impossible
Exactly, they could have been easily scrapped those round table scenes and let the murals show what happpend. Though that is not what we got here.
What's with all the "I'm sorry Lace" this is ancient history, basically at the primordial level. This isn't the history of modern day dwarves. This is something that precedes even them. And it is this history that allows them to exist as they are, otherwise they'd remain mindless constructs to the titans (hence no free will as they would enthralled to the singing of the titans). There is no point patronizing them at every instance, as this was how their free will was developed.
Also Harding is a surface dwarf, she has no connection to the stone until this game. They really fumbled the writing for this game, all the nuance and context that would have made these revolutions cool are absent, it just feel like they just throwing the answers out there
@darktirkd7395 Varric already had this discussion with Solas if you listen to their banter. As Varric says the "Stone" is the past and if returning to it meant giving up who he was now then it is better left where it is.
Moreover, contrary to what Harding was saying that Solas didn't care or lacked remorse during Inquisition is blatantly false. Again his banter with Varric reveals this.
Well they clearly pushing this was made for modern audience bs, i'd take the "I'm sorry Lace" is the equivalent of "white guilt" that is happening right now in our society or at least in the west or something like when a white woman feels offended by a white dude just because he wears a sombrero and she says "hey that's offensive"
That sounds like me going to random chicked and say "Sorry proud velociraptor that my ancestors once hunted you"
I mean.
That would still suck to hear, even if it happened a while ago.
21:11 I don't know why Harding is so mad... By neutering the Titans, it freed the dwarves from being their slaves so that they could grow and establish their own society.
Yeah, he just cut away their dreams and also led those dreams to become mad and attack their empire where thousands of dwarves died for two centuries in a row. No reasons to be mad indeed...
@@readeroftheelderscrolls That’s right. Solas’ “Rite of Tranquility” on the Titans made them nearly exterminate their children.
It also severed their link to magic and it created the Darkspawn.
Their bodies being made of lyrium and the earth would explain Ghil's experimentation with the Qunari.
Ghil was trying to do the same thing but with Dragon's blood. Or were they her prototypes of creating the archdemons we eventually got. (That being why they were considered accidents)
On another note: did the other Evanuris die during the blights we know or some other way?
yes they did actually, the 5 previous Archdemons had their souls (which were the respective Elvunari's spirit minus Beauty if the ritual was performed) destroyed so their "bodies" in the Fade are brain dead and are no longer a threat
Ghil did not create Qunari, Taash story tells us that the Qunari came to be due to their flight from the Executors. They mixed their blood with Dragons to survive what is coming (in DA5 according to the ending).
It sounds like they couldn’t come up with something better so they just took the fan theory or basic theory from inquisition and make them canon. (Edit: As many have pointed out to me, yes all of this was foreshadowed in Trespasser, however it feel like the notes of what happened. I was expecting a lot more context about the ancient world and what it actually looked like, how the forgotten ones were in this, how Lyirum works and why some titans are alive while others are dead. I also wanted to known about the hidden Dwarf city’s. I really wanted more context)
As if this wasn't what they were setting up. To change something for the sake of change is how you get GOT season 8.
@ I guess what I hate is that they stripped away all the context from the lore, Solas states it took a long time before the Evanuris were treated like gods but here they are just gods, why were the old gods put into underground chambers, no reason. Why did they spirits wants to become elves: just cuz. No nuance
@@darktirkd7395 That's probably how the evanuris convinced the majority of elves to believe they were God's. Slowly. You don't immediately declare yourself that you slowly try to convince/ indoctrinate people. The archdeamons were underground if I remember because they were essentially the insurance policy to make sure they wouldn't die. As for why they wanted to become elves, that's left up to interpretation, at least to my reading of it. But it seems like they found more power there.
@@darktirkd7395 That's probably how the evanuris convinced the majority of elves to believe they were God's. Slowly. You don't immediately declare yourself that you slowly try to convince people. The archdeamons were underground if I remember because they were essentially the insurance policy to make sure they wouldn't die. As for why they wanted to become elves, that's left up to interpretation, at least to my reading of it. But it seems like they found more power there.
@@darktirkd7395 You know it was hindsighted from the first game? That this scene is builded on three games, it's not like it's a fan theory, it was a fact
In chronological terms, the best way to view these would be 4th, 5th, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 6th which eventually leads us to now
Solas didn't regret letting Corypheus find the orb?
He needed to unlock the orb because he was powerless st the time and he hoped that Cory would unlock it's power and Solas would try to steal the orb from Cory
@@anders8461 That's right, but he didn't regret it for some reason. It turned out to be a mistake. I guess it's possible that he doesn't regret it because nobody BUT corypheus could have unlocked it. (Mythal said no?)
He probably does. But he regrets all of these things more.
The whole part where the blight comes from makes sense story wise at least
@ meant to be whole part
yeah I'm satisfied with the answers on how the Blight appeared, why the Golden City was empty and how Archdemons are created (since the Old Gods/Elvunaris are spirits, they possess dragons which become Archdemons when the conditions of a Blight happen which allowed their prison to be weakened enough that they can escape albeit without their bodies since that requires the Fade to be torn open)
Thank you for uploading this. 😃
"Let's deliver earthshaking loredumps with a literal roundtable discussion while our party members drink tea and whet knives. That won't be dull at all!"
I agree the round table talk was awfully cringe. i personally hoped we would get to see some great cinamatic flashbacks that showed the evanuris's downfall. So i am deeply dissapointed that all we got are some static murals with bits of audio slapped onto it
That was probably how it happened IRL at the writers' meeting, and you can see from their reactions how much they were enjoying it (not): particularly the "whetting a knife" -- I take it as a smartphone metaphor.
@@Pagliaccio1976 it certainly doesn't give the respect that should be afforded Solas' past and inner thoughts.
Let alone that certain members like Tash and Devrin should be kicked out. They don't contribute to the discussion aside such juvenile remarks or obvious statements.
Why would these all need to be dramatic?
@@Dragonage2ftw It's called being respectful, especially from a guy we fought alongside with at the previous game. Knowing where these came from and how these contain such personal thoughts. That you'd have some muscle for brains just emphasizing that the two were "totally doing it" is not only reductive but insulting for fans for Mythal and Solas, when clearly they had a much connection that was beyond the physical (they were spirits).
As I said they just had so little contribute to the discussion, I understand Tash really shouldn't be here, but that these personal thoughts and memories of Solas would be treated so impersonally does rub me the wrong way coming from DAI.
It also undermines the tension of the earth shattering revelations of the blight's source and of the fade and the spirits, which upheave the Andraste belief. It doesn't present the gravity of the discovery when you're just there casually and even worse you have members downplaying it and acting non-chalant about it.
Why do they state the obvious? We just watched what they said, and then they repeat it back. Are they stupid?
No they think we are stupid
Made for people with an attention span of a pyjak
Seems to be a common thing in this game. Watched someone play like the first 4 hours or something. They keep repeating what you just witnessed with your own eyes, they keep repeating what someone just said like a minute ago. Dreadful writing. Clearly aimed at TikTok kids with a 3 second attention span.
Bad writing
@@undershaft8828nice ME reference 😂
this kinda ruined solavellan romance for me lol seems like there's more content for mythal x solas than solas x inquisitor.. even in ending scene, where they look longingly at each other.. i waited 10 years for solavellan resolution
He’s been alive for a long time. Lol get a grip
@@qorwynne The difference for me is that in trepasser Solas didn't want to take our Inquisitor with him. Now that he is free, there is no more hesitation, he immediately accepts that the Inquisitor will accompany him. For many centuries, Mythal was a friend, his mentor, the person who mattered to him. But Solas love and respects belongs to our Inquisitor
@@WHlSKYtx It's not about the fact that they were involved, I wouldn't mind that. It's about the fact that Lavellan sacrifices so much for him, and chases him all the time, but nothing he does in this game shows that he genuinely cares or wants to be with her. Before leaving to the Fade, *he doesn't even look at her or says a word to her* , it is her following him, and he doesn't even seem happy about it.
It's about the fact that in the Inquisition it was showed that he was doing things for People, the Elves, the Spirits - all of which the Veil affects negatively, and now it seems that he does all of that, because he is longing after Mythal.
It's about the fact that him doing all of that for Mythal cheapens his character.
@@BlackSky25no, I am sorry but solas in DAI + trespasser and here are definitely different people. We need to stop gaslighting ourself by believing they are.
@@acsummer565 This may apply to you. To me he is the same Solas with the same story and the same past. I see absolutely no difference.
The lore part - not bad, acceptable. The discussion part - cringe.
Another memory would be that of Gih creating a new race, crossing elf and dragon.
The idea would be to have an army of miniature dragons.
So Flemeth helped Inquisitor by the pond. So much for respecting our choices cause that only happens if Morrigan didn't have OGB.
I mean that was the default world event in Inquisition.
@@Wilsontripplets Default world state but you had Keep and they specifically said they will not override people's choices here.
The pond refers to the Well of Sorrows, which is what leads into the Inquisitor and Morrigan meeting Flemeth regardless of version.
@@ifyoulookclosely6863 They didn't. It was talking about the Well of Sorrows.
Thank you. I was only able to find 3 of them and there was a couple I was racking my brain over to try and find lol.
Anyway I'm glad this video exists, Veilguard is honestly my favorite Dragon Age right next to Origins. Can't wait for my 2nd playthrough.
God this is so dumbed down from what came before it.
I’m pretty sure I disagree with every single lore addition we learn about here.
These are not aditions, but reveals. All the lore was written even before the Origins. Maybe details change, but not the major points.
@gromdal9293 i agree to some degree, but how come Solas and Mythal motovations have been changed, and their last meeting in the DA:I told completely differently? In the Veilguard, everyone presents it as the biggest betrayal, Mythal is cold and doesn't approve of his plans. In the Inquisition, there was love, sorrow and understanding between them - and the devnotes for that scene back then specifically said that she nurtured the powers over the hundreds of years, because she knew Solas will need it to save the elven people - not only she was with him on this plan, Solas also was genuinely doing it for the people, not from delusions that this is the world Mythal wanted.
@@pativi6643 So the history has been written in raw bits, maybe like bullet points. Like elves were spirit, elves killed titans. But they never decided in advance what to do with it. Thats why all incosistencies. What does it mean save elven people? There could be a draft of the story where saving means destroying the veil or restoring old magic. This directuon was never set and they changed it a lot. Solas was never suposed to exist as Solas, thats Inqusition addition. But Dreadwolf was always there and was responsible for creating the veil.
I'm sorry but is Harding mad about not being a literal ant in all but body? However much you pity the Titans in their madness, their absence made things better for Dwarves, not worse
Love these scenes. I imagine the BioWare team was like this, trying to work out the lore.
Spoonfed lore with a whole table of childish idiots explaining it to me like i am too stupid to understand.
"They were doing IT!!"
So the ancient elves needed a Lyrium crystal to make a body? Explain Cole then. He didn’t need a lyrium crystal to create a body. He didn’t need anything (besides Varric, RIP).
And if they were now physical bodies, does that mean they couldn’t return to spirit form? If true, then the codex entry in Trespasser where “two elven lovers make bodies of energy and fly through the air and spend an eternity with one another” is irrelevant now huh?
Cole didn't create a body; he was a Spirit of Compassion who reanimated the body of the human mage boy who died of starvation in the White Spire. That might be why he didn't need a lyrium catalyst, but honest to god, I... I don't trust the writers thought that far.
@@llewleyn Nope, Cole didn't possess a body, that was the entire point in Asunder. He thought he was Cole, but he was just a body-less spirit that took on Cole's personality (like the spirit that impersonates Justinia in DAI). And his quest line in DAI is literally you encouraging him to either return back to being a spirit or become more human and lose a bunch of his abilities.
@@llewleyn true until Cole reanimated the dead body of a little boy. He was a spirit who can (with inquisitors help) turn into a real person or be more spirit.
My comment was referring more about turning Cole more human. According to Varric, Cole just needed to work through his emotions, and once he does that, Cole becomes more human. Still no lyrium crystal.
I swear, the new writers for dragon age found all the fan theories we’ve been discussing and chose to make them all true. (Solas is the maker [well chant of light says the black city was once the makers house])
Mythal: "The lyrium gives us the strength we had when we were of the Fade. We are the best of physical and spirit."
This implies that, without lyrium, they could take a physical form, but one that doesn't have magic. The lyrium, being a physical form of magic, allows them to have both.
you know, i think the people that critique dragon age veilguard's story... doesn't have dig into the game properly... after see all of this
so the only error that we can imputate to Bioware is not put those information as part of main story but behind a sidequest
Ten years for this cluster f.. of a game # fail guard is non canon
NGL, where the hell Blight comes from should have remained mystery or totally separated from elves
Well we did know that it was possibly tied to the evanuris because corypheus stated that he found the black city in the blighted state. We also knew that the evanuris were incredibly powerful elven mages who were tempering with dangerous magic. We also knew that some of them were experimenting on other elves as well as other living beings (the halla). And we knew the vallasin was the slavering marks. So yeah everything already pointed to them being responsible in the first place. Im just disappointed that it's not presented as deep as i thought it should have been
It being the titans dreams is kinda lame, ngl.
So dies that mean that the titans are "the forgotten ones" then? Because lore wise Solas was considered one of them as well and supposedly tricked them into being imprisoned too. Does that mean that the titans are the forgotten ones and sklas, as a wisdom spirit was able to trick the titand into giving up their blkod to craft a lyrium dagger that he then used to imprison the titans and sever them from their dreams which became red lyrium due to madness and causes the blight?
Yeah, the Evanuris should never have been the Old Gods. I mean, Tresspaser tell us that the Evanuris were all-mighty mages, tyrants that made the Tevinter Magisters look like babies but, hey, maybe they weren't all that powerful if the Grey Wardens already killed five of them. What a waste.
I wanted to see Andruil, Dirthamen and Falon'din in person, now I'm not going to have the chance.
@@varric technically their bodies are fine in the Fade just that their soul/mind was destroyed. Necromancy exists so...
I didn't quite get it - the Blight was a byproduct of war between Evanuris and the Titans or Titans were euthanized for elven gods to have bodies of flesh?
No I think it originated when andruil hunted in the void and got infected. And the elven gods used the blight after that to win the war and stuff
@@Xxsorafan That's not it. It's a spoiler, but the origin of the Blight was revealed in the game, it's related to the Titans. But what's not clear when it happened. During the war with the titans or after.
The corrupted dreams of titans. The embodiment of their rage at the elves who severed them from the fade with the lyrium dagger. The only way to contain that was to seal it away
@@lordofgingers In the end it looks like the evil elves wanted physical bodies for themselves, that's why they went to war with the Titans. But the war wasn't going too well so they had severed their dreams and made them brainless stone. Those dreams turned into Blight that was stashed away by Solas and Mythal until evil elves found it and started using it for power.
@@Alex-gl2dw exactly. A good science fiction analogue would be the flood from halo. Very similar in concept
Thanks babes, I look forward to your videos more than the actual gameplay 😅
Hold up. Question. There were FIVE BLIGHTS. Seven gods sealed within the Veil. Does that mean during those 5 five blights those archdemons that were killed were actually 5 of the elven 'gods' that were trying to escape??? If so then that would mean Elgaran and Ghil are the last 2. Things to think about.
I just put the script of this scene in chat GPT and it said that it is 80% confident that this was AI generated :D
Chat GPT is also insanely inaccurate. That is also not how you check if something is AI generated.
@adityasivaram6175 I know, just use anti plagiarism programs but I don't really use them anymore. Just seems funny with the response it generated that it is "80% confident that the speech is AI generated due to the poor flow and clunkiness of the conversation". I kinda get why, playing the game now and the dialogue is awful, especially when I have just come through a fresh run of DAI which is way superior.
@ as someone enjoying the game, the dialogue is a downside honestly. Characters I am invested in, the story too. But the dialogue is a downside
@adityasivaram6175 yep, it is feeling robotic. Like compare arguments in DAI where characters bounced off eachother and it feels natural, they are arguing points they just heard etc (Varric and Cassandra over Hawke).
This one, it feels like the arguments don't flow, like they had time to research what they were going to say and practiced the line, no "heat of the moment" statements or immediate regret from saying thing (except *that* scene)
@@ashm4938 yeah, it doesn’t pull me out of immersion honestly, because I’m genuinely into the stories and characters. But it is kind of a gaping hole
Its all hand holding. My god this Dialogue how awful
I really hoped the reviews were wrong
But he couldn’t be that fucking romantic with my Inquisitor????
have to say making the Old Gods be the same as the Elvunaris is really clever and must have been planned from way back in the very beginning. Minus Fen Harel and Mythal, you have exactly seven Elvunaris which is the exact number of Old Gods worshipped by Tevinter
Tash and Harding are so annoying
Are these meant to be amazing revelations??? They're all so... awful and anticlimatic.. we waited 10 years for THIS??? The lipsync is horrific, the group looks like one of those chat groups talking absolute nonsense and seeming to think we are morons by having to repeat it all after we saw it. This game is a JOKE!!
Typical wke writing, they are so full of themselves they think we're all morons.
Okay this is weird but stay with me, where is the throne Corphius spoke about? He said he went to the centre of creation or something and found it empty. If the Golden City was a prison for the blight why did he see a throne?
For that matter why did the Golden City change when he reached it? And why did the Elven gods decide to wipe the world with the blight if they already were worshiped by the Tvinter as gods?
1)In the black city. Was likely an elven palace or something like that used as the prison.
2)It was already black when he got there.
3)They believed that the blight was something they could control and use to reshape the world into something beautiful. But in truth, they could never master the blight. Nobody could. Solas knew this and that’s why he sealed it away along with the people who were crazy and powerful enough to try. The evanuris
Not one mural of Lavellan…really?
What else did you expect? They piss on our choices.
What would he regret involving her though? In all his regrets he was coerced by Mythal. But falling in love with lavellan was his own choosing
Soo it’s mythal’s fault that soles became broken?
Hm, Women ☕️
Elgarnan seems like a good guy
The end Solavellan please!
Taash is kinda annoying here, everyone else is fine i guess
Makes me miss the days where you could choose if you let someone join you
You know whats the worse offender in all of this?. Is that they all repeat what was literally spoon fed to you in the murals. Then whats exactly is the point in showing them id all they going to do is needlessly info dumping around the the table. 😂😂🤨🙄
The dialogue is so damn awful.
I mean, I understand need to discuss everything but actually seeing it feels awful 😅
They talk "modern". Its hard to take them seriously at all, so desperate to be agreable and "fun".
Off topic I know. But is It just me or does Davrins voice sound like a male orc from skyrim
I can't listen to Davrin without picturing him complaining about "primitives" and trolling everyone. Yes, he's voiced by the same guy who voiced Javik, which is hilarious since Harding is voiced by Liara's VA.
Am I the only one irked by them constantly throwing the term "epic" around to describe anything awe-inspiring? The dialogue sounds like cringey marvel schlock with all the millennial slang they keep using.
Wow. Thank you!!! Please create movie how to get..
holy molly this looks awful
The writing is soooo good omg
Best writing I ever saw
I love how these liberals are just so sophisticated they’re the only ones who can handle the truth
Waw Waw Waw!!! The face « animations » are so baaaaaad