Some status Z-moves were actually cracked. Stuff like Z-Hypnosis, Mirror Move, or Kommo-o’s move still make no sense to me how they thought it would be balanced.
With Z-Me First, preserving the 1.5x boost on the Z version of the copied move is actually a showdown bug- I tested this in-game using calcs, and it only turns the move into the Z-version and does not apply the 1.5x boost, resulting in a few instances where a Z-Me First actually leads to a weaker copied move. I tested this and reported it to showdown bug reports and it was never fixed
I love your content, there is only one thing I notice on a regular basis: if something is very high it is "impossible to overstate" not "impossible to understate". Keep up the good work.
@@gurixd100 absolutely not. If something is impossible to overstate, it is extremely high, if it is impossible to understate extremely low or even zero
@@flapjacki9579 actually, the applications are a little different. "Impossible to understate" means that the significance of something is so great that it must not be overlooked within a context
I'm stoked to see more little cup knowledge videos! I understand you may he trying to divert away from just "the little cup expert", but that's really sets you apart from other showdown creators, aside from your general knowledge
@@raccoon3440 Nah, the whole point of this video is that the strategy wasn't just cheese. Cheese is something that can easily be prepared for and worked around. This was legit.
In vgc17, there was a similar idea to that. The world champion played a tema with both tapu koko and fini, two top pokemon in the meta because of their ststline and the fact that they set terrain, which in gen7 were stilla 50% boost. Then, he used whimsicott, which had 1.78% usage, since generally prankster tailwind wasn't really important and it wasn't an attacker, with the move nature power. Nature Power is a status move, that turns into an attacking move if the user is holding a berry OR A TERRAIN IS PRESENT. The world champion's Whimsicott held a normalium z, to fire off an electric or fairy type (or even psychic if the opponent set the terrain with lele) z move in priority. Funnily enough, Mandibuzz, which is weak to both and was used by the runner up, was actually a check: because that move is originally a status move that gains priority via prankster, dark types are immune to it.
I like this comment but they decided to keep Z me first because baton pass is the thing that made Z me first broken and not just a good set up move, this is so certain pokemon could use this gimmick (note: I know its a joke but want to give clarity to new viewers)
From what I understand about LC, I'd assume theres a meme set that involves me first on mienfoo or something, but who knows, I'm a natdex player tryna answer a LC question
I love using Me First with Banettite in Mix and Mega for that prankster Priority. Mostly gotta be careful about Gyaradosite and one time I was confused when I fell for a Zoroark.
Though I'm not sure if I started it per day, but I was playing around in hackmons and I had a mega Mewtwo x with contrary v-create and I haven't seen anybody else doing it but after I came back after a few months contrary was banned entirely
Used to meme around with a z-mirror move dodrio in game on usum. Works the same way, just boosts attack. Baton pass it some speed and sub with ninjask or something if I could. Worked more than it probably should’ve. Don’t know what it is about seeing a dodrio do the whole ass flying z-move but it’s a sight to behold
I love this kinda stuff. Understand the meta, but look beyond it. Or in some cases, directly counter it. This is what pushes a game forward in terms of complexity and overall player skill. Of course, sometimes those strats are just a wee bit cracked, and should probably be put aside for game health, haha. Keep up the greay work. Go get another move banned
I once tried Z-mirror move cause it gives a sword dance instead. But its a fragile interaction. If last move failed it doesnt copy it... So you cant switch in a bird on a groubd move and use mirror move to become a sword dance tectonic rage to revenge kill
Z- Me First is crazy but yeah Baton Pass was the main problem. I remember making a team around speed boost baton pass torchic and I had 2 main receivers, usually Mudbray would accumulate so many boosts in all stats that it was super easy to sweep entire teams.
So basically, because they refuse to ban Mienfoo (WHY???), one of the worst things Smogon has ever done has now spread to LC. WTF. Like the only redeeming quality of LC over the other tiers between it and AG lmfao
Some status Z-moves were actually cracked. Stuff like Z-Hypnosis, Mirror Move, or Kommo-o’s move still make no sense to me how they thought it would be balanced.
Z-Splash on Mimikyu was a personal favorite of mine
You believe game freak thought they would be balanced? Game freak? 🤨
Even Thanos has more sense of balance than Game Freak.
Thank god Z-Hypnosis misses 40% of the time, as ironic and weird as this sounds lmao
(I used it before, I can confirm that it actually does miss)
Can someone explain what Z Hypnosis and Mirror move does?
With Z-Me First, preserving the 1.5x boost on the Z version of the copied move is actually a showdown bug- I tested this in-game using calcs, and it only turns the move into the Z-version and does not apply the 1.5x boost, resulting in a few instances where a Z-Me First actually leads to a weaker copied move. I tested this and reported it to showdown bug reports and it was never fixed
What's the difference between a broken LC strat and the alphabet? One is Z first, and the other is Z last.
Groan
@@NotableElectronicSounds Nah nah nah nah, that one was actually pretty solid
It's also true because you're never gonna run a z-move on an unknown
i had a stroke reading that and it wasnt your fault
nice one
z-status moves were my favorite part of gen 7, using an item slot for a one time use op set-up move always seemed more fair to me than a nuke button
power herb geomancy
Also kept Knock Off more in check, because Z crystals didn't count.
did you launch the whole smogon little cup situation JUST to reveal a galaxy brain play you came up with in a dramatic place
That title gonna get used by alot more people cause that's a good title
Agency already taking over Freezai lmao
Similar thing with Z-Mirror Move, its so much fun on Blaziken
I love your content, there is only one thing I notice on a regular basis: if something is very high it is "impossible to overstate" not "impossible to understate".
Keep up the good work.
wait, don't both applications end up with the same meaning?
@@gurixd100 absolutely not. If something is impossible to overstate, it is extremely high, if it is impossible to understate extremely low or even zero
Oh, I see now. Thanks.
@@flapjacki9579 actually, the applications are a little different. "Impossible to understate" means that the significance of something is so great that it must not be overlooked within a context
Me first
Lol
I'm stoked to see more little cup knowledge videos!
I understand you may he trying to divert away from just "the little cup expert", but that's really sets you apart from other showdown creators, aside from your general knowledge
A lot of people don't really see Little Cup as a "legitimate" metagame, but hopefully stuff like this will change their minds.
Freezai rolling nerds with some high quality cheese, you love to see it LOL
great way of putting it
@@raccoon3440 Nah, the whole point of this video is that the strategy wasn't just cheese. Cheese is something that can easily be prepared for and worked around. This was legit.
@@hppern3971 thats why it's high quality cheese
In vgc17, there was a similar idea to that. The world champion played a tema with both tapu koko and fini, two top pokemon in the meta because of their ststline and the fact that they set terrain, which in gen7 were stilla 50% boost. Then, he used whimsicott, which had 1.78% usage, since generally prankster tailwind wasn't really important and it wasn't an attacker, with the move nature power. Nature Power is a status move, that turns into an attacking move if the user is holding a berry OR A TERRAIN IS PRESENT. The world champion's Whimsicott held a normalium z, to fire off an electric or fairy type (or even psychic if the opponent set the terrain with lele) z move in priority. Funnily enough, Mandibuzz, which is weak to both and was used by the runner up, was actually a check: because that move is originally a status move that gains priority via prankster, dark types are immune to it.
i remember that. its amazing how a little change in the idea can break a mon
And don't forget in case of Whimsicott not being useful he could just use taunt groundium Z Krookodile instead.
The problem: Z me first
Smogon's solution: ban baton pass
I like this comment but they decided to keep Z me first because baton pass is the thing that made Z me first broken and not just a good set up move, this is so certain pokemon could use this gimmick
(note: I know its a joke but want to give clarity to new viewers)
Wait, is Me First used at all outside of Z-Me First? Why not ban _that_ move, since Baton Pass was seemingly otherwise mostly harmless?
From what I understand about LC, I'd assume theres a meme set that involves me first on mienfoo or something, but who knows, I'm a natdex player tryna answer a LC question
In VGC it has a niche iirc
@@elilogan8630 very few Pokemon get it so it's kinda not used at all
The Mienfoo meta was insane. Some Mienfoo actually ran Supersonic Skystrike on Bounce just to beat other Mienfoo.
Don't think we didn't notice the HJK miss at 1:55 :>
Your LC videos are always my favorite. It’s such an interesting tier that I otherwise know nothing about
They should really bring back snubbull. It was a fabulous addition to the metagame (and I love him so much he's such a tiny, adorable dork)
I love using Me First with Banettite in Mix and Mega for that prankster Priority. Mostly gotta be careful about Gyaradosite and one time I was confused when I fell for a Zoroark.
At 2:03, I think you meant it's impossible to overstate how powerful a Z-move is
No
Yes
Looking forward on why G-Moltres was banned from SSUU
Reminds me of Z-Mirror Move Blaziken in Gen 7 Ubers
can you do more lc guides? Its been a long time since youve done any i think the meta game has changed since your last one
Why is Baton Pass still banned in gen 8 LC?
Though I'm not sure if I started it per day, but I was playing around in hackmons and I had a mega Mewtwo x with contrary v-create and I haven't seen anybody else doing it but after I came back after a few months contrary was banned entirely
_YOU_ first? No... _ME_ First 🥇
we remain strangers even after so many meetings , blood stains remain even after so many rains...
A personal favorite of mine is z-trick on hoopa unbound late game for the double to speed.
Freezai really be a secret agent
"Ready to smash your team or baton pass"
Smash or pass: all tiers and formats edition
Day 3 of asking for an aaa vid
Doduo would also occasionally do the same thing with Z-Mirror Move. Bulbasaur with Z-Celebrate was also annoying.
Used to meme around with a z-mirror move dodrio in game on usum. Works the same way, just boosts attack. Baton pass it some speed and sub with ninjask or something if I could. Worked more than it probably should’ve. Don’t know what it is about seeing a dodrio do the whole ass flying z-move but it’s a sight to behold
This channel came out of nowhere but it's quickly becoming one of my favorite sources of competitive Pokemon content.
That’s sad to hear
@@IndexInvestingWithCole why?
Hope finals went well homie
Me fourth
I love this kinda stuff. Understand the meta, but look beyond it. Or in some cases, directly counter it. This is what pushes a game forward in terms of complexity and overall player skill.
Of course, sometimes those strats are just a wee bit cracked, and should probably be put aside for game health, haha.
Keep up the greay work. Go get another move banned
interesting video, take a shot everytime he says "z me first" tho
1:54 "smash a team aw- OH SHIT HJK MISSED CUT!!!"
Wait you are serene grace from Pokemon Showdown ?
z stockpile was always my favorite for toxapex
Me First was always stupid, but this is MEGA stupid
Now you z me (first)
...now z dont
im here so early i love your vids man
Had to leave a like for Slim Shady.
i like the little cup more content pls
I once tried Z-mirror move cause it gives a sword dance instead. But its a fragile interaction.
If last move failed it doesnt copy it...
So you cant switch in a bird on a groubd move and use mirror move to become a sword dance tectonic rage to revenge kill
Why didn’t they ban me first, or me first+ normalium Z because that’s the problem isn’t it?
Can you make a video explaining the difference between a counter and a check?
Z- Me First is crazy but yeah Baton Pass was the main problem. I remember making a team around speed boost baton pass torchic and I had 2 main receivers, usually Mudbray would accumulate so many boosts in all stats that it was super easy to sweep entire teams.
Z-Me First was always one of my favorite Z-Moves. Moxie Krookodile is one of my favorite Pokémon to use with it.
69 comments nice also did you cause baton pass to be banned?
Freezai, I know it was several years ago, but congratulations on your win
It annoys me that Z-Hidden Power only gives you Breakneck Blitz when Z-Me First exists.
Probably because hidden power is already problematic and adding a nuke button to it makes it even more so
I miss Z moves
Me second
Good
Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
Baton pass was legal in gen 7 LC :0
God I miss z-moves.
(tries to read the transcript)
This is incomprehensible lol
hi freezai!
Very interesting
First?
7th comment
Stop telling people they can unsibscribe later.
I used it before with Murkrow but with Z-Mirror Move, then it gets priority since he has Prankster
So basically, because they refuse to ban Mienfoo (WHY???), one of the worst things Smogon has ever done has now spread to LC. WTF. Like the only redeeming quality of LC over the other tiers between it and AG lmfao
i eat dogs and use their bones as tooth picks
Good to know I should do the same
ok.
ok and
hey man thanks for letting me know but what do i do with this knowledge
Nothing wrong with that i heard dog meat is sweet