Is this ingredient the secret to perfect pizza dough?
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I grew up in Brooklyn eating probably at least one slice of Sicilian every week. I started using your master dough recipe to make Sicilian pizza at home almost as soon as you posted it and my results have been phenomenal. But I do not incorporate oil into the dough. I do heavily oil the pan however and then proof the dough in the oiled pan for what winds up being almost 3 hours. During the first hour I'm letting the dough relax and gently stretching it to better fill the pan every 10-15 minutes. Then I proof for an hour in a barely warmed (~100F) oven. And THEN - and this is the first true secret - I top the pizza with a thin layer of diluted sauce (also your recipe) and proof for another hour. And THEN - and this is the other true secret - I par-bake just with that layer of sauce for about 20 minutes, also covering the pan with an aluminum pan "tent" to preserve moisture. This gives an incredible rise and provides the pillowy texture you're talking about. Then I add the full sauce layer ,cheese, etc. So all this is to say, you are correct - in NY they use the exact same dough for thin crust as Sicilian. But they oil the pan, and then they par-bake with no heavy toppings, to get an incredible rise. No doubt, incorporating a modest amount of oil into the dough won't hurt, but it's not necessary. The result of this, using *your* dough and sauce recipe, vividly triggers my longterm memory like the restaurant critic in Ratatouille. Highly recommend trying this if you haven't already.
I do nearly the same after seeing instructions for doing this at some point. What's your hydration? I use 75% which makes it super soft and holey. Maybe too soft for some? I use bread flour. I do this in an 8" pan for a personal pizza. I call it Roman Style Personal Pan Pizza, but I don't really know how to classify it.
No oil for me either, except in the pan, but not as much as most people use. Just a little milk is the only extra thing.
@@JeffO- Nice. I'm using Charlie's NY style dough and sauce recipe, which is 65% hydration. I can't post links here but if you look for his "How to Make a REAL New York Slice at Home" video he's got a spreadsheet you can download with all the stats including gluten % etc.
@@PeterMoore-q5k Woops, you stated that right at the beginning. Thanks.
I've been making pizza at home for over 20 years. It becomes an obsession of endless tweaks of techniques, equipment and ingredient's. Charlies channel is hands down the best ! Can't wait for each new video.
Would like to see a full 1 year + update on your NY Style deep dive.
I have actually make some changes to it, so I'm hoping to make a video about it soon!
@@CharlieAndersonCooking Sweet! Love following along with the Detroit and Geandma journey too
@@CharlieAndersonCooking question, I've tried your pizza recipe before and I'm subbed to your course, but I was curious if you had any instructions for stand mixer users? I'm not really good at hand mixing and would find it easier if I could use my Kitchenaid.
This is pretty much confirming my experience, in some ways. But I do think there are some variables not covered here (yet) that also play a role. I believe that the amount of salt used relative to the amount of oil, and also the speed at which you're mixing, have the potential to make some difference to the final product. I also do a small pizza operation and I make dough every week, so I really appreciate these videos.
I never considered how oil can affect a pizza dough. Will have to try this sometime.
Oil inhibits burning, until it actually burns. The more oil, the longer that applied heat takes to get to the browning stage
Olive oil (and other types) are also slightly acidic. If you want something to brown more easily, you make it more alkaline.
Dude! You doing a major service to the home pizza making community! This is tremendous. Definitely will be adding olive oil to my pan pizzas going forward. Can't wait to see the next video upload.
I love the video man but over 10% of the time was used for your sponsorship that feels like a little much. I understand get your bag but maybe add like a little bar at the bottom or a time stamp for when its over at least.
I have celiac and gluten free baking and recipe development has become my main interest/hobby over the years. Even though gluten free baking has some very different ingredient variables, techniques, and requirements, I always enjoy watching your videos because of your methodical approach to testing and development. After a lot of horrendous failed GF pizza dough experiments, I found that pan/grandma/detroit style pizzas got the best results for me, and they also happen to be my favorite types of pizza. The recipe I landed on ended up being a modification of my focaccia, with lower hydration and oil. Watching this gave me fun flashbacks to figuring out a lot of the same things for myself (with different specific percentages, because no gluten). Adding the oil before mixing and just a little drizzle in the pan or around the edge ended up being easiest for me. Thanks for sharing your process, your videos are always inspiring and entertaining
Can you share your gluten free pizza recipe?
Please share, as a lover of pizza, it would be much appreciated.
First! So I want to use the chance to tell you, your pizza videos are incredible helpful, thank you very much! Good luck with your business!
I started putting in the oil at the beginning because it’s much easier for the process of mixing the dough. Before I put the oil at the end, because I was told to, but then the dough just slaps around in my home mixer and doesn’t mix really well.
Thank you, and I'm glad to hear it!
Yeah I think it's just one of those things that everyone says to do, but they never really understand why haha (myself included in the past)
maybe add part 1 or something to the tittle.
Trick is you add the oil later after autolysis
One day I will have enough time and energy to run 5 side by side pizza tests in my own kitchen
Great stuff as always. Love these technical trial and error details, thanks for giving us free info after all your hard work!
I have been hesitant to try adding oil into my dough recipes but I think i'll go ahead and give the 3% a try. Thanks again for helping us all level up our pizza game Charlie.
Damn never been. In on the beginning like this I don’t know what to do
Really appreciate the time it takes you to put out these videos. Thanks for spreading great knowledge!
From a Chicago tavern style restaurant...
Half the oil goes in dough with flour and water before mixing, once mixed and balled, you add the other half of oil and mix for about 60sec more. Keeping the dough cool with cold water and not overmixing is key.
Are you using around 10% oil? That seems to be the case for most of the crispy tavern style formulations I've seen.
Outstanding content!
If you want the quintessential sheet pan pizza goes to Galleria Umberto in Boston. They only serve one flavor (plain) of square pizza for 40+ years and it’s amazing. They started off as a bakery so they know their dough.
What's most likely happening that causes the crust to be drier when it's more oil, is there is less water in the dough, so there's less water remaining to evaporate. So, the water evaporates out of it faster because there's far less.
I agree. Hydration ratio is the critical component in my experience. Oil can add flavor dimension and increase char as well - all good things, but overall hydration (water plus oil if added) is the difference I've seen.
So for this, I actually used the same hydration for each dough! Since oil doesn't contain any water, there's no need to adjust the hydration when adding it. Something like butter would be different since it does contain some water.
@@CharlieAndersonCooking Thanks for the response! I should be more specific: I have adjusted the flour to total liquid ratio. Without oil, I usually use about 3 cups of water to about 5 and 1/2 cups of flour (I eyeball it these days when I'm mixing and add enough water until I get the right mix texture). If I add oil, I will reduce the water a bit and add flour, so that the total moisture (including oil) is roughly the equivalent. What makes a difference for me in experimenting with this is not the oil - it's the 'feel' of the dough when I combine the liquids with the flour. If I use water instead of oil, I get the same crumb, but a slightly different flavor and char profile. Great stuff Charlie - it has been so great to watch your journey! Keep it up!
Hi Charlie from Spain. A question, when you say to use high-gluten flour, do you mean something like Manitoba?
Yes. Manitoba wheat originates from Canada. High Protein, very resistant wheat. 13-14% protein or so. It is cultivated in Europe and is considered the " American flour".
Im from Germany and the usual wheat has like 10-11% protein. Maybe 12% if lucky. Also many types are not great for long fermentation and have not the best water absorption capabilities. It is great to mix Manitoba or high protein special flour to get a better sourdough bread for example. For pizzas might help mixing a bunch of Manitoba too. Need to test on pizzas though.
@@JoseGomez-vr6mj for pizza 72h cold fermentation i use 50% manitoba 50% caputto pizzería
You’re my pizza Yoda - I’ll be trying the 3% and 10% this weekend. Thanks for this content 💪🏿
I love your dedication to pizza
So let the dough rest overnight + ~5% oil content, put the dough in the pan (maybe drizzle oil on?) let it rest 5-10min then put on ingredients + use good ingredients ~550º F for ~8 min (changes based on altitude), i think that's what i got out of this.
~ symbol means about or an estimation that may be changed from different variables such as to taste/firmness and natural phenomena like 1k feet above sea level or even precipitation etc.
Charlie, thank you. I really love your techno geeky videos. If I were streaming TH-cam, I would be doing the same thing! I have learned a lot from you, and I can't wait for your next video where I predict you will be making 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 pct. EVOO doughs :) Love it! Keep up the good work.
The issue with adding fat to dough you’re losing “crispiness”, what we do at my pizzeria is adjust flour amounts, for something like a grandma or Sicilian you can still use HG flour but swap out a certain % for a weaker flour, for home use a basic bread flour will have less protein % than a HG flour.
Try it out lmk
So if you like a bit of fluffiness to your pizza dough you might want to try Buffalo NY style pizza. The slightly sweet but still acidic and tangy sauce with the spicy char cup pepperoni is unmatched. Not to mention the *WINGS*
Thank you for another great video and for taking us on the journey and letting us in along the way!
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🍻
Love your content. Would be great if you could apply your pizza making knowledge into making a high protein lower calorie pizza using Greek yogurt for example for us on a diet
I have a pizza place that makes a traditional I guess more a Neapolitan type pizza and I have been trying to figure out what they do to get such a great crust. It has an eggshell crisp outside but the inside is pillow soft and airy, very light.. More like a soft bread roll so I am wondering if there is milk powder in the dough or mabye the malt powder .
I actually bought a couple Doug balls and brought it home and baked on my pizza stone in the oven and it came out the same way very light, crisp and full of air
50% oil in the dough!? I thought they were right calling ME "Crazy Charlie", but no, you take the cake with the 50% oil pizza dough. Crazy Charlie. Anyway, power's out over here in NorCal and I was just about to mix up some dough for dinner tonight - time to get down with the hand processing for once :D
Some people are saying that if you sprinkle crack on like parmesan that works too. I don’t know, it’s just something I heard. Must be a New York thing
Your thumbnail, title and intro way overpromise on what the video delivers. Dont do that, I'm much less inclined to click future videos now because you framed one of your simple ingredient variation tests as some new secret trick and promised the reveal of the actual promised content in the next video.
I can’t wait to find out what Sicilian pizzeria you’re talking about. You should also look into Citizen Pie Roman cafe in Cleveland
Cool experiment! While oil affects the texture, fermentation and proofing are where the real texture happens. Focusing there might be even more worth your time.
Call me crazy, this looks and sounds like Little Caesars pizza. Which is awesome when it’s hot and fresh.
Since you don't seem to respond to videos over 6 months old, You think you could answer a question about the sesame seeds on your artisan rolls? Do you add anything to get them to stick?
2:58 I also realised something interesting in the background... its 6:38 just as I'm watching this👀
when you say 3% of olive oil do you mean in relation to the total amount of water or do you mean when you have a hydration level of 65% the olive oil counts as a part of those 65% or is it added on top?
You should get one of those blendtech blenders with the vacuum kit. This would allow you to create an emulsion of water and oil to prevent trapping in the dough, and increasing gluten formation with the presence of oil.
This is an interesting idea. I make emulsions with my vitamix all the time. I never thought of using it for pizza or bread. A small amount of guar gum or xanthan gum should do the trick.
I would love to see you try a pizza dough with butter and compare it to olive oil.
Can't wait for the next episode... sicilian pizza!!!
Bro's friend brought him pizza when he was running a pizza pop up
Try a direct 48-72hr
2.5% salt
85% HG flour 15% bread
Personally we don’t add oil as it removes that real nice crisp factor we chase, the slightly higher hydration keeps the dough moist
Our Detroits are around 82% hydration
Have you been able to recreated Moto Pizza from Seattle, WA?
It's the sugars that do most of the browning not so much the oil
Thanks Charlie. This is great content.
I can't remember the source but a while back I was listening to someone who said that you could get the same flavor of EVOO for less cost by using a blend of EVOO and cheaper neutral oil. I think they were using a 10% EVOO blend, might be an interesting experiment when you have your final dough formula to see if using various EVOO/neutral oil blends gives a same/similar flavor to dough made with 100% EVOO.
Love your videos! Keep em coming ❤
I dont use oil, i make 80% hydration, and oil the pan, get crunchy pizza, and so light and fresh.
Water probably evaporates easier due to oil repellent it doesn't made bonds with gluten enough, this is why is drier. I wish watching videos about prince street pizza recreation. Make video series about that.
The italian side of my fam actually owned and ran pizza places in ohio and texas. They used an old family recipe for the dough that used eggs, milk, and olive oil.
What a nail biter ending
Super interesting.
Love that you’re breaking out advanced bread & pastry, such a good resource! 🤘
Thank you for taking us along on this journey. I have learned so much 👍🏼
I'll have to try this recipe when I make tomato pie this weekend!
dude u are like "Albert Einstein" of pizza 👌👌
I always use oil as I make sheet pan pizzas, and use a focaccia vibe dough - which is always super fluffy and delicious. I start with the olive oil before I add flour, so right from the beginning
and cold proof overnight
What about focaccia dough? There’s a lot of oil in it and it is very fluffy and bubbly.
it isn't 50% oil though, plus it doesn't (usually) have sauce and cheese and toppings weighing it down. When I make it, I put it on the sheet and do a final rise before dimpling and baking, so the yeast had some time to puff it up. When I make a pizza, the stretch the dough, sauce, cheese, and top it and bake it right away.
I've often wanted to try stretching the dough and then waiting 45 minutes before sauce, cheese, and toppings to give the yeast some time to puff the crust, but it's pizza and I can't wait.
been waiting for this video
As great as olive oil is, have you considered trying butter or clarified butter?
Butter is great in dough. But considering, you are adding lots of cheese to pizza... Lard+Butter is a usual base for pastry though.
Great video!
I'm a simple man, I see a new vid by Charlie, I click it immediately.
#1 reason your crust isn't fluffy: because you're making pizza _correctly_
If you add oil, you need to use more yeast, or use a non-instant yeast
Pizza crust is not supposed to be fluffy. What the fuck are you trying to teach people?
There are so many types of pizza. Some are bready fluffy. Some are thin and crisp. Some are even big pies. Dont ve so bitter man and be respectful.
@@JoseGomez-vr6mjHe's never had L&B. LOL. Crispy and pillowy at the same time.
You should try the following: go with a strong gluten flour, but do less yeast, but longer overall fermentation, that will let amylases in the flour and lactobacilus to hydrolyze the starch in the flour for longer before the dough is too gassy from the yeast. Less yeast, more time, meaning more bacteria and amylase activity rather than mostly yeast activity.
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