ANOTHER MASSIVE ORGAN Project - Part 1 MIDI VIBRAPHONE
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 มิ.ย. 2024
- Tackling The VIBRAPHONE and making it MIDI compatible!
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Lucien Nunes Vaz :-
• Lucien Nunes introduce...
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EAST MIDLANDS CINEMA ORGAN ASSOCIATION :-
emcoa.co.uk/
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The midi board i designed for The Joans Organ Project :-
• I BOUGHT A CHURCH ORGA...
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Greyhound Totalisator at @THISMUSEUMISNOTOBSOLETE :-
• TOTALISATOR Gambling M...
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@totemrecall4862 MIDI Vibraphone :-
• Robotic Vibraphone
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THANKUS HUMUNGOUSO to :-
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hans bricks
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#synthesizer #microphone #experiment - เพลง
Sam,
Wonderful to see this all coming to life already ! As we at the organ museum are going to be returning both instruments to how they left the Compton Works, in 1938 and 1952 respectively, all of the extras that were added after the instruments moved to Leeds in 1965 aren't going to be returned, however due to their history in their own right, deserve to live on - and i'm so pleased we could agree for them to come to you.
In the photograph, for your eagle eyed viewers - the console on the right of the two "Tub" consoles, is the Parkway Hotel Leeds, the very first british electronic organ, the Compton organ company had prior to this, been building "Melotone" units, that were added to their cinema pipe organs to add to the specification, but these were a handful of stops meant to add another tonal colour, not complete the whole instrument. The "Theatrone" was the next step in this technology, with the rotating electrostatic generators to produce the tone, this used the first generation of tone generators - of which there are very few remaining, of the three sets Lucien managed to collect, we will construct one "good" set in order to return the organ to how it left the Compton works.
The second of the two, is the organ that was purchased by the Broadstairs corporation in 1952, to be used as a mobile organ for the council. However, most often used on the band stand from what I gather - this used the later 347 metal generator racks, as we've discussed before, another item you will be getting !
On one hand, it is a shame they were altered to such a degree in their last home, however on the other - they likely would not have survived otherwise, it is our intention to restore them to their original form.
A note on the percussions you were talking about ! The Chrysoglott (Pronounced Criz-o-glott) is a series of soft hammers, that strike large metal bars - usually, a vibraphone but with the motor turned off ! So, i'm not actually sure why he had them as seperate devices in this case !? And the Glockenspiel is as it says on the tin. All of the "relays" you describe are Kimber Allen Pulldown Magnets, off the shelf from a company in Kent that are still to this day producing organ components just as they have done forever, a real old fashioned firm, and certainly worth a visit !
Also, the blue speakers (Why that shade of blue !?) that have Rotafon in what I know to be wheelybin letters ... Those are all, infact, Leslie speakers ! He just called them Rotafon to stick with the Compton names for things, despite them being very very different, i'm so glad you will be able to use these, too !
I really should get my act together and get our own youtube channel up and running, considering the amount of projects we have going on at the moment, Jamie keeps suggesting it but this has been somewhat of an encouragement !
Best
Carl & Jamie - East Midlands Organ Museum
Nice one Carl and Jamie! Thanks for the info and help. Yeah! Vids are always good even if just one take phone vids. Always good to document for whoever is interested in watching! See you guys soon!!
A lot of words
I thought those looked suspiciously like Leslie cabinets, only with the delightful blue color. Thanks to all who preserve musical history like this.
Thanks for the detailed comment!
I would watch your channel.
Lol the notification said "Another Massive Organ..." and I was like "ookay, that's what they all say"
Ayyy...
Thats all I came here for ☺
🤣🤣
Who can resist a massive organ when it’s offered 😂
and then I read about a vibranium phone
🤣😁
I apologize Sam, I must admit, when you first mentioned your desire to open a museum, I wasn’t fully convinced of its chance of success. I am humbled, and must concede, you have proved me wrong. Joans organ wouldn’t have been saved if it wasn’t for you. Congratulations on your venture and I bow to your vision and applaud your good fortune.
If you can get there, go there. It’sa good day out
Given his recent short, I imagine this means a lot to Sam. Kudos.
Brilliant idea LONG before Joan's Organ !!!!!!
@@andywatts8654 I live in Canada.
@@mastercylinder1939 that's a poor excuse. I live in NZ and I'm going in August. 😛
A stepper motor with a Trinamic driver would be ideal for this - execllent low-speed control and silent.
mike tghanks. my only experience with stepper motors have been reveryberant in their enclosure so i went away from it, but you recon thats the way forwards? im hoping for it to get quite quick too beyond in the video, would stepper still be the way?
@@LOOKMUMNOCOMPUTER Trinamic drivers work absolute magic on steppers - They use 64-256 analogue levels between each step. Would easily do the speeds you were doing & more and be completely silent.
@@mikeselectricstuff ok great news, ill get hold of some and report my findings! cheers. any suggestion on a good trinamic driver? or any one of the world wide web
If this were a 3d printer i’d said trinamic 2209 and an ldo motor. But that’s kind of the standard answer for that usecase, not detailed knowledge. Actually you might even borrow one from your Lulzbot to test it.
Cool, something to check out when building CNC machines!
now remember! my relationship with words is very tenuous (no idea dont ask, words and things dont match up, more sounds, materials and other tangible things make sense, ye olde grammar nonsense and writing is just nonsense :D). i tend to say a lot of words and mean other things. but atleast you get the gist haha. for reference here are some of my mess ups below :-
xylophone i mean glockenspiel im a donut.
thingamagoop - Still meant thingamagoop
Let me guess... its a 1 off piece lol 😂
Or in this case 1110 lol 😂🎉
Help me program 13 in the piano by number system... its a A note... i cant blast it high enough... i 5hink you can... just dont explode your soul trying to ram it higher!
Don't worry! We understand. (PS. An organ vibraphone is called a Chrysoglott)
@@JesseBadut14 Quite right ! Usually they are the same thing, just it becomes the Vibraphone when you switch on the motor for the rotating baffles. However for some reason in this case, Mr Stockdale had one of each !
Humble suggestion: the vibraphone is one of the only instruments where you can play a note and then decide when to stop it later. You can do this electronically with piano and organ too, but I think it'd be pretty cool to have a mute for every key that can either be activated via a midi off message or even a separate midi channel.
Surely the note decays slowly, like guitar which you can also choose to stop, or instead any wind instrument that stops when you stop blowing!
Lol the mouth noises during time lapse are great
Grab an old sewing machine motor, if you pick one up with all its wiring you'll also have a ready built speed control and they can be really quiet.
the trolley under the vibraphone is typical of orchestral mallet instruments of that era, and even now to some extent. I remember pushing the xylophone from the band room to the gymnasium for an in-school concert and the legs of the trolley folded under itself. We had to make some modifications to repair it. I would recommend building a sturdy base for your vibraphone :)
I would have loved to hear the entire ensemble of instruments. The vibraphone sounds lovely on it's own.
I love that the hymn numbers are all off-by-one
I figured out the first 3, is the last one supposed to be 8008 (early Intel CPU)?
@@rick420buzz 👍
@@rick420buzz If you want to keep this sfw , then yeah ;)
@@rick420buzz Yeah, yeah. XD
Oh wow an Easter Egg that passed me by!
I am continuously amazed by the stuff you manage to acquire. ^____^
I mean, obviously you need to show Martin and his Wintergatan off now by playing his Marble Machine music better than himself... Please, I really want to hear that!! 🤩
The battle of Marbles vs Midi ...
@@Juttutin I mean with his recent obsession with "tight" music the logical conclusion will be to have the thing be a Midi instrument sans marbles in the end... (I've more or less stopped watching the videos since he started worrying about 1ms delays in note times)
Yeah same, his machine was looking so good and better then the first but it was the first that brought all the attention for being.. what it is.@@SomeMorganSomewhere
Yep, I agree with all of the above.
Well well well, how interesting. Back in 2020 I was offered this whole setup along with some tape recorders, the organ was way too big for me and everything had been hand painted over, was a shame really. The main musical side of things was housed in a very cramp room, whilst the driving electronics was in a shed opposite. I did purchase most the recorders as I collect Leevers Rich equipment, and it seemed a shame that the organ might end up in landfill, but its great to see it actually survived.
When you said 'I'm going to cut these wires, i had visions of keyboard warriors typing 'YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING SAM!' 😁😁😁 Absolutely brilliant piece of work Sam. Hope you get the motor sorted soon!
You should have seen the nest of wiring that was tacked on to these instruments in their last home .. Oh my goodness, anything Sam does is an improvement, believe me !
I love it that he briefly showed how he treated the previous organ 😁
Oh my fracking word. The world is lucky to have you, man. Saving our history one organ at a time!
Edit. That sounds amazing. Well done mate.
Great to see the organ again!
A critical differentiator between the vibraphone and a glockenspiel is that damper that you kind of glossed over. That's a major part about the vibraphone sound - you can engage the damper to silence a chord when moving to a different chord, to prevent dissonance. Without it, you basically have a glockenspiel. I would suggest adding a solenoid programmed to respond to the sustain pedal CC, that actuates the damper, but in reverse - so when you press the sustain pedal, it damps the vibraphone, like an actual one does.
Yeah it's cool but the dissonance is lovely too :D
It has a solenoid on that. I didn't mention is cus not as interesting as the wobblies
On the pipe organ side of these, you would quite often have an individual damper felt per note, with a seperate stop key that would activate a larger pneumatic to lift them all up at once, quite useful ! Some even had a "Half blow" feature, able to cut the wind in half, in order to soften things down even further.
@@LOOKMUMNOCOMPUTER Yeah, the damper should be a simple MIDI on/off; should be easy to do for a chap of your talents, Sam LOL! And having at one time gigged with a vibes player for a few years, yes you DO need to be able to program the damper as well. 😉
@@caddelworth it is wired in, i used it in middle of vid. just edited out the bit talking about it
Such a lovely sparkly sound.
So amazing and magical seeing this come together
Sam every video you release is so damn inspiring!
What a beautiful sound that makes
Has a magical sound to it.
What a beautiful instrument.
I love it. Sounds so good.
Oustanding as always. That sound is phenomenal, & to say the least, jaw dropping how you got there
Omg..what you take on, and you're music is fantastic 🫨🤯
What a beautiful sound
Vibes have such a wonderful sound. So exited for the next phase of this project! These electromecanical instruments are so cool! Can't wait to see whats next!!!
Sounds magical with that controller. I would love one of these!!!
amazing , this is a bit of a dream instrument ... My midi controlled music box will be arriving in the mail soon ... love it !
Wow. What a great find. I saw one of your performances recently, on TH-cam. You are just awesome for putting these videos together. Thanks.
a rather pleasant and magical sound too it.
That's very cool! Thanks for showing us! I love theater organs and their electromechanical whatnots / accessories!
I love these midi controlled instruments! I'm imagining a whole room of them with mics everywhere that you can use with a computer like a live vst plugin.
It sounds like an effect that would be used for entering a "dream sequence". Very nice.
What a wonderful thing!
I love that name… my condolences.
that thing sounds amazing!
the sound of this thing is absolutely magical and pretty. i expected it to sound more harsh but somehow its so damn perfect.
Tip top Sam, love it, wonderful as ever…..
Aaaah the magic smoke, electrical aftershave for those that dabble. Came back to say how lovely that sounds, maybe look on one for the RC car websites for a servo. They ain't cheap mind.
More GOLD !!!
Just love it !!
That sounds really nice, love the museum because otherwise I would have no idea any of this even existed.
What an excellent video. Thanks!
Beautiful. I'm sure I'm not the only one who instantly wondered how this would sound playing Wintergatan's Marble Machine song!
Sounds so lovely, and now I know how a vibraphone works 👍
I learned my lesson properly with Joan's organ and I say cut those wires with great abandon! The vibes sound amazing. Can't wait to hear the rest of the instruments!
The Centipede Vibraphone! Love it...
Was expecting another organ transplant, got something cooler. A lovely instrument, and I like the mechanical tremolo/vibrato.
Glockenspiel? And... tubular bells!
Dang that sounds beautiful!
Honestly, maybe the way to go is a NEMA 17 stepper motor with a TMC2208 driver. Perfect low to mid speed controll, enough torque, nearly silent operation (provided you use a silent stepper driver like the TMC2208 or similar) and easy to control via arduino with the AccelStepper library or something similar...
Unfortunately I've tried this type of arrangement, and it's great up to a certain speed before it starts vibrating due to the resonance of the motor and the drive frequency itself, since it has to commutate the coils at higher and higher speeds. It's too bad, but you're stuck at lower frequencies.
Great video brother
God bless your work!
Sagenhaft!👏🤩
what a score to get all those amazing instruments!!! they couldn't have gone to a better home i think.
What a beauty
The vibraphone is my favorite percussion instrument!
Have you ever considered putting magnets into the keys of the church organ, then putting coils under each one so that the keys will spookily play themselves ... maybe for Halloween?
yes. sadly its a big modification job. and would likely take the console too far away from its provinence. but who knows! maybe a sleaker less intrusive means will rear its funky head.
A very rare thing to see, especially on organs - however not something that doesn't already exist ! Moving keys on self playing instruments was as Sam has described in other videos, a very American thing. Not popular over here as it can harm repetition, however that being said, Kimball - the pipe organ builder in the states, and later electronic organ builder, produced a series of electronic organs that could play rolls, and these - had moving keys ! Very fun, but so rare in the UK, we've never been able to find one for our own museum. th-cam.com/video/s9S4wzEfwpk/w-d-xo.html
@@LOOKMUMNOCOMPUTERgiven the current rate of progress, in five years there might be some slightly used but obsolete fully dextrous robotic android arms floating around. Not sure that's the right kind of (not) obsolete you're going for tho...
@@LOOKMUMNOCOMPUTEROk, how bout this. No permanent modification, not even a temporary one, just one you can use when you want it to play on its own.
Make a wooden frame that rests on top of the claviature. That frame consists of an MDF board and two uprights that are its legs, but also go up as well (so in profile from the front, it would like a wide H).
At the tip of each of the keys, on the MDF board, one hole is to be drilled, and one tube is to be glued in place. This tube sticks (again) both up and down from the MDF, and i'd say it should be one of those plastic electric conduits, but... it ultimately is tied to the coils you'd potentially use (be they hand would or already existing items, which is up to you).
Now, you'd need wooden dowels to go through each of the tubes, and they should fit loosely inside and rest on top of the keys, protruding out of the tubes' ends up top. By how much, to be determined. The tips of these "sticks" should have cue tips (from billiards). That's a soft (easily replaced) surface that won't mar or damage the keys in any way.
Next would be to add a C channel piece of metal up top (this has two purposes, it weighs the whole contraption down so it doesn't vibrate off and it's also robust enough for its intended purpose). Nothing too heavy tho, and of course, something you can bend. If you can't bend something like that, then it can also be accomplished from a plate of metal with angle iron on its sides. I'd say that the plate could be 1 mm sheet and the angles 2 mm metal one. On this plate, you'd need to drill holes above the sticks and stick springs to the sticks that only just keep the sticks off the surface of the keys.
Then... we come to the relatively complicated part and actually where the project would start on account of the fact that you either have these coils already or have to make them to wind them, to suit existing tube you can find. The coils would stick over the tubes (at different height intervals if the tubes are too close proximity) and they would energize using a piece of metal tube that's either slipped over the sticks (which affects the pull power of those springs mentioned above) or the sticks are cut in half and stuck into the metal tubes.
Each time you activate a coil, it pulls down the metal, which is tied to the stick which then pushes the key through its cue tip. In theory, you can have this move with quite a bit of accuracy when playing. In practice, a prototype should be build to test out just how much acting force you need on that spring, which is the key component of the whole affair.
Visually, it wouldn't be too heavy on the eye, it reminiscences of the organ tubes in a way and it's also silent. So it won't detract from the organ with noisy activation mechanisms. If you tune that spring force perfectly, it won't affect the keys in any way as (potentially) a motor would (rolling key presser as some retrofitted pianos have).
Just a thought.
Great episode ! Loved the intro and outro music. The vibraphone sounds great !
brushless motor will be doing less noise but you will still hear it a bit at high rates : maybe put a small sound isolation box around it.
The idea to rotate the vibrant bars at audio rate to create a ring modulation is very good, but if you try and do so, other acoustic phenomenon may occur.
I'm looking forward to see ho it turns out in the next videos !
beautiful!
The vibraphone itself sounds divine and when that motor gets changed it will be even better.
Sam, im so proud of your existance as human. Greets from México.
I really have to arrange to come over the bridge and see your museum one day, I might even have a couple of items for you at some stage 😊 well done, your videos are an inspiration to us collectors of yesteryears technology 😊
This is amazing stuff
Mint this!! Reit good watch! Cheers
nice job sam.
Nice!
Amazing content 😊🙌
That test section in the 14:00 area sounded like a 1960s dream sequence. Very pretty. For some vibraphone inspiration look up Lionel Hampton. He played vibes with all the jazz greats of the mid 20th century.
The diodes on the relays are for flyback voltage suppression as the coil is de-energized, it does make the coils polorized so they need + and - right , but you need them somewhere in the circuit, maybe the new drivers have them. Fascinating work.
The drivers I use have them
That's really cool. Never saw a vibraphone up close. Not that it would make for easy automation, but while you sort out the servo, you might still be able to play the vibrato with a foot pedal and flywheel, like an old sewing machine. Could work for near-term recordings. Definitely has the low-speed control. 😅👍
i love that one pipe to the left where the string wiggles when it blows
Sam, AWESOME work as ever. You are a barking mad (meant as a massive compliment) Electro Mechanical Engineer. 🙂😎🤓❤
Amaaaaaaaaazing 🤩
SO BEAUTIFUL!!! You are doing so of the GREATEST work to bring the old instruments into the 21st century!!
You could cover the motor, and pullies in a box made of MDF (do NOT use regular plywood... MDF ONLY), then use dynamat on the inside of the box (and maybe the outside too... actually make the box/cover with 2 layers with a 1/2 inch gap all around and then fill it with that expanding foam for even better results... and even put dynamat on the outside of THAT for even betterer resultses) if you can't find a servo/motor that is quiet enough... Dynamat can be expensive, and IDK if you can really buy small pieces of it, but there is a cheaper alternative i think its called killamat ... but you could make some yourself... you wanna all vibrations in the box to be deadened and all gaps sealed... plus the second layer of box with that insulation/expanding foam in a can will do wonders to stop transfer of vibration from one box to the other... oh and put dynamat on the vibraphone all around the pully/servo that the box will cover.. and the other side of that area too....
- this should COMPLETELY stop the servo/motor sounds from being heard, without affecting the sound of the vibraphone :)
Those diodes in parallel with the relay coils are likely flyback diodes to prevent negative voltage spikes as a result of suddenly disconnecting an energized inductor. I'd suggest reconnecting them in the opposite orientation so they aren't shorting your arduino GPIO but allow energy stored in the coils to be released.
No need uln2803's have built in protection diodes
@@LOOKMUMNOCOMPUTER heh I was going to comment on the good reason for keeping the diodes, but I was beaten to it and I see you have it covered anyway! The ULN2803 is a dream chip for driving anything solenoidal (if that's even a word :-) )
@@davechisholm9670 "Solenoidal"? Are you sure that's not something to see a doctor about? 🤣
Greetings from Australia, You maniac! As someone who has saved a few older toneweheelers' and early transitor beasts as well as church organ ranks from landfill let me just say you are fecking insanely groovy. :) Let me know if you ever venture over here. I need to see your magnificence live. It's all about preservation, my fabulous friend!
Basically any stepper motor with a silent driver should work well to spin that vibraphone thing. Those have very precise low-speed control, plenty of torque and are easy to get.
One note, those diodes are for flyback voltage-spike protection. Now, while the ULN2803 of the solenoid board you have got its own set of protection diodes internally, it is worth noting that not all transistor-array chips got these for people looking into designing their own driver boards. It's a very common beginners mistake to have motor and/or solenoid driver transistors blow due to lack of protection, and I see the engineers behind the vibraphone got around this by just using solenoids with the diode already built-in.
I'm pretty sure most people know about adding protection diodes. But indeed. Cheers!
My favorite electromechanical, electroacoustic mad scientist.
We love a massive organ.
Is that Joan playing? 👻
Great video 2x👍
AMAZING!
5:43 I’m sorry I know it’s stereotyping but, “ A LAUT A COPA” 😂
I’m glad you’re back on the organ fabrication/restoration vibe all of your content is 💯
Whoww, great job!! And i like Bach ;-)
@ 12:33 - you have a brushless in place (the servo). You need a good quality DC *brushed* commutator motor, with pretty strong shaft support bearings (the side load on the servo from the rubber belt was what was causing the bulk of the noise). A decent, high-current H-bridge shield for a UNO R3 or some such should drive it, with a current capability of about 2 - 2.5x the peak current draw of the motor.
Strangely, the motor you took off looked like a modified London bus wiper motor (probably Lucas) which would have done the job fine. Why not try that? You also need to watch the belt tension.
Alternatively, use *two* brushless servos driving the shafts directly via flexible couplings (take the pulley wheels off), one for each set of tremolo butterflies, which will not have any side loads and can be synchronised for position to keep each bank of butterflies in phase. Great project!
Thanks for the info! Excuse my knowledge if wrong but I'm pretty sure servos, well the cheap ones I had are almost certainly brushed motors. I meant brushless purely from the point of a lower end kick but also high rpm with low noise. I want it to rev up and down via the digital input quickly and quietly but no need for torque. The first thing I tried was a brushed motor I had but for whatever reason it wasn't working so I switched to servo. I tend to work with what I have on the day. Especially when needing to finish projects for videos (like this) in 2-3 days postage becomes risky so I rely on what's in the drawers. As for the motor on the vibraphone it was a 230v geared motor so I'm assuming bus wipers used 12 or 24volt supply it's possibly not? I don't think it would do what I'm hoping I want to get up to atleast 300rpm on the shafts and slow as 20rpm I don't think that would
Have done it. Also how bodgey it was and also the weight and mismatch of voltages. Trying to keep the whole room at the standard of 12v and 1 power input per machine. Anyway thanks for the thoughts! Think I'm going stepper motor. Cheerz.
@@LOOKMUMNOCOMPUTER FWIW, the vast majority of the noise caused by servo motors is the internal gearing mechanism, because the tiny DC motors in there run best at high speeds, but results in low torque. The noise has basically nothing to do with the brushes or DC, so don't write those off.
The setup is actually quite inefficient because you first have the internal servo gearing that reduces speed and increases torque(with resulting power losses), and then your external belt-driven system that then re-increases speed.
I suspect the steppers will also be noticeably noisy despite fancy drivers, just because still at their core they are discrete, almost digital, devices and will have cogging noise effects. Hopefully I'm wrong!
thank you)
You could use a so called "flexible shaft" to isolate the noisy bugger.
Brushless motors still make some noise. They aren't to noisy below maybe 10%, but they get louder after that. I just uploaded a video to my channel of the sounds they make if you'd like to reference.
some whiz needs to rock that whole place with fine tuned black midi
Another Massive organ... happy days
I watched a series by a guy trying to set up a fancy vibraphone once, took him years and still never got it working. Something to do with troublesome metal balls 😄
Seeing the butterflies made me go, hm it's carbureted.
Waltz of the Flowers!
Straight outta Compton
4:50 Dang, still in tune after all those years
Hi Sam. I think the best will be asynchronous motor with control circuit you use in leslie in gameboy machine. But instead of using potentiometer, use optocoupler with LDR ;)
Sony 1982 - The CFS-C7 CHORDMACHINE
You should give it a look see. I feel like it could make for some wonderful Look Mum No Computer future content!
when replacing motor you could also add a position-encoder-magnet-thingy, to allow absolute control over the modulation...
But you do have absolute control. Position isn't critical
You should've been the next Dr. Who, you got the enthusiasm.
Can you imagine it? What a fantastic idea!
That would have been way better than the absolute tripe they have come up with.
WOW!