for me i understand paying for half of the updates. in terms of the effects and amps that makes sense, that is solid software updates and could be seen as add ons going fowards. However, having 4 blocks disabled at the get go is where they lost it for me. The hardware is/was clearly capable with the amount of dsp built in of supporting 8 blocks like the standard kemper and they have removed that feature and locked it behind the fact you have to buy the first upgrade before you even get a sniff at the second upgrade to use the full horsepower of the unit.
I started playing guitar in the mid seventies and we were very limited with the gear we had to choose from or could afford. A lot of these gear companies are overkill with effects and other things that a musician will probably never use. I remember Malmsteen saying “work with what you have.” Then you can add accordingly to what you’re looking for. You can save a lot of time, money and aggravation.
Yeah, it was the same for me in the 90s. For years, all I had was a Marshall and a handful of pedals. My amp settings stayed the same for pretty much everything. My days of lugging a 4x12 up 4 flights of stairs are behind me because of all of the other options available, but it’s easy to forget how spoilt for choice guitarists are these days.
While this is good advice Malmsteen inherited his own recording studio at an early age and he came from a middle class family. My first guitar amp was me playing though the jack of my 3 in 1 Sony Hi-Fi and before that I couldn't afford an electric guitar so I spent a year on a free college course with my brand new £34 made in West Germany Classical guitar. I have owned a lot of different modelers but my search for tone was satisfied when I bought s used Kemper Player a few months back.
I completely agree with you on the Tone Junkie videos. I think Kemper might have shot themselves in the foot with this debacle. I know you have a different view than myself on this next point but, I believe that Kemper did deliberately lock out functionality that the unit was totally capable of at launch, to pave the way for 'levelling up'.
@@stevegardiner8473 I totally understand why people feel that Kemper nerfed the unit at launch. Also, is this upgrade vs update debate just clever marketing, given that most major firmware updates are upgrades?
I've supported kemper for 10+ years through the toaster, rack, and stage and I even got my player as soon as they were available here in korea. I Sold my player (at a much lower price because the value dropped, mind you) when they announced this garbage and got an axe fx fm3. Kemper ruined themselves with this debacle.
The Tone Junkie people are lashing out because they see this as an attack on their income. I lost all respect for Kemper and the people at Tone Junkies. And that pedo/stuff was really disturbing.
this will be how it is for most tech in the future from amp models to cars. subscriptions. it sucks and i wont buy their stuff this way. was thinking of getting into kemper but wont do it now.
But this is not a subscription, though, is a one-time paid upgrade. The price may be debatable but the concept I can get behind, especially given the track record of Kemper so far (reg. updates for their original profilers). A subscription is a completely different thing that I would definitely avoid.
@fedest I don’t think I mentioned a subscription model once in my video. My video was mainly about Kemper’s PR and how they got behind Tonejunkie hurling abuse at people.
It'd be helpful to know, before I buy a product, if the manufacturer has built in features that are not yet realized, with the idea of selling you future upgrades; at least I know, going into it, that it might be the case.
I was going to buy a Kemper player a few weeks ago, but was sold out. So glad it was, they’ve lost a potential new customer with this approach. I could maybe cope with £50 for both upgrades/updates but £300!! No thanks
But if it was good enough a few weeks ago, and they didn't remove any of the functionality it had a few weeks ago, nor made it more expensive to have that functionality, why do you feel this is such a put off? Why do feel that the extras you could now get with the upgrades are at the same time too expensive, but yet essential to have to the point of not making the unit worth it anymore without them? if anything, I'd be more excited to know that in a sense it future-proofs my purchase, in the sense that I ever want to extend the functionality that was sufficient for me at first, I have the option of buying the upgrade instead of selling the Player to buy a Stage.
For what they charge for the original hardware, updates, upgrades, or whatever you want to call it, they should be at no cost to user. Do you pay for updates to your computer or your cell phone? No. If you want more revenue make a better box than the rest.
@@F.O.H. runs on the same hardware, for which they charge a lot, and is produced by the same company, so by your reasoning, they should give it to me for free. These days, it's the software what mainly differentiates these units from each other, and the bigger part of what people is paying for.
@@nikkinik2161 labeling Logic as a different product than Garage Band is more of a product/marketing strategy than a matter of the usage and function they offer. One could argue that Garage Band is in the league of the “lite” daw versions that usually come bundled together with an interface, and Logic in the league of the full version that you need to pay full price if you want to use it… But that’s beyond the point: Logic is software made by apple that run on macs and can be installed but you need to pay to unlock, and no-one claims the hardware is binned because of that. The actual counter argument here is that in apple hardware you can still run third party software that can leverage that hardware (as much as Logic), whereas in the Player you can’t. So then it’s a matter of whether the hardware that is “idle”when not getting the upgrade is increasing the price unnecessarily, and by how much - My guess is that’s probably a negligible amount if any.
I've encountered the exact same volume pedal issues you mention, among other glitches, with various Kemper units I've played through while depping on West End shows. I think it comes down to the fact that the Profiler units probably weren't really designed with live use in mind, IMO. The implementation of live remote switching seems incredibly sketchy. Have you ever noticed the fact that the tap tempo light doesn't blink at a steady tempo, for example? Never had any problem like that with Fractal gear and I've been using that for over 10 years...they also always give updates for free.
Yeah, I never had issues with Fractal. I moved to Kemper because it was easier, back in the day before fly rigs were tiny, to put a head, remote and expression pedal in a Peli 1610 that weighed less than 23kg, rather than check a rack case with an Axe FXII into the hold. Plus a lot of hire companies bought Kempers, so you could just take a USB stick in your hand luggage if the baggage allowance didn’t allow for a Peli case. Also, buying 2 identical Fractal rigs would (and still does) cost a king’s ransom.
@@BobbyHarrisonGuitar I reckon you could definitely do what you need with an FM3, which would fit in the aforementioned Peli case and be affordable enough for a spare. But horses for courses...
@@seshboy I've heard good things about the FM3. I've been using the Quad Cortex for a while and it ticks a lot of boxes for me in terms of portability, ease of use and sound. I'm an old bastard, so I always find myself drawn towards models or captures of real amps I've used, so I generally end up using Plexi, Deluxe Reverb, Super Reverb and AC30 models.
"all rig and no gig" best quote i've heard recently. (I'm stealing that) Sums up the majority of gear-owners, i reckon. Not that there's anything inherently bad about that.
5:51 You definitely can't make jokes about that in Germany either. I did'nt even catch him saying that when i watched his video cause i was so irritated by how arrogant his whole appearance was. Now finding out he said something like that honestly makes him lose all my respect. His response to your comment and the response video he made did'nt help that either. Just obnoxious.
@@BobbyHarrisonGuitar Yeah i agree. I bought a few Tonex profiles and really enjoy them. Recent stuff overshadows my willingness for future purchases though no not gonna lie. Thanks for your take on the subject! Pretty much agree with all of what you've said. Cheers!
Good size of Kemper : made me discover better Capture tech : ToneX! It’s even better (in feel and sound) Had Kemper toaster and player but now much prefer using ToneX and nano cortex. Also LOVE NAM plugin
I bought a Tonex One which I used on a couple of gigs. It sounds great. I find the software clunky, but it’s great to keep as a spare and as a multi purpose pedal.
My favorite is that Tone-X which actually CAN capture amps unlike the kemper player, but also has a display and costs WAY.WAY less is going to release a massive new update with lots of new effects.......for FREE. Oops on the timing, kemper - better luck next time!
@@BobbyHarrisonGuitar Agreed about the software for the most part. Thankfully it was quick and easy enough for me to browse around their online tone cloud thing, try out a bunch of the most popular tones, download the few that I liked the most and get them into the pedal. In my mind, that's pretty much all I want it for, but yeah, I know there's lots more to it via the software which I didn't find as intuitive as I'd want. It looks like they've made a number of large improvements recently so maybe I'll take another stab at doing more with it on the software side. Cheers man!
Don't like the idea of paid updates personally. Not because they're intrinsically bad (people should be paid for work) but it's capitalism. Like Kemper have perhaps done, you'll start getting functionality gated off from the get-go to cash in on it later. Hoping the thing you mentioned about loss leading (free updates for renewed interest) is strong enough to stave it away but we'll see I guess
Why do guitarists not read what Kemper says on their website before commenting on social media...so people know the difference between UPGRADE and UPDATE. From the website. "The Kemper Profiler Player now also lives in the Paradigm, the Philosophy of the original Kemper Profilers". "NOTE: Of course the Level Upgrades do not replace the traditional free software and feature Updates tradition. The LVL Upgrades are just an offer to optionally enhance the feature menu towards the bigger units".
I’m aware of all of the above. That’s not what my video is about. It’s about Kemper’s PR getting behind videos featuring name-calling and jokes about abuse.
@@BobbyHarrisonGuitar Officially ToneJunkie has nothing to do with Kemper. The guy who seems to be doing Kemper marketing I doubt watched the entire ToneJunkie video...he just shared it. Did he share ToneJunkies first video or the second one with the stupid remark?
Kemper shared the video in which HW called anybody who complained about the upgrade/update entitled crybabies and losers and then went on to make a joke about ‘Where did the bad man touch you?’ Kemper very proudly and smugly got behind it. I guess we just live in a world where people react without reading or watching the material they’re complaining about or commenting on.
@@BobbyHarrisonGuitar I'm pretty sure if they are made aware of that remark they'll remove it... no ways they approve of that. On another subject. I've got a photo saved of you standing next to your Kemper rig that you were using with Cliff Richard... correct?
Kemper can make a really funny April Fool’s Joke and announce that all hardware will require a subscription based model to even turn on and access basic functions. You have to pay extra to save presets and to use all the amps inside. 😂😂😂
Kemper have been giving free UPDATES for 12 years....how about Strymon quality Reverbs and Delays. How about the Fuzz system and Drives. How about Liquid Profiling. The Player is perfect at Level 1, no need to Upgrade. We'll continue to get free updates for all Kemper models for the next ten years. However, imo Kemper are clueless at marketing...they need a new marketing manager..
@@guitartoneSA I agree. This isn’t just another video complaining about the upgrade/update debate. Of course, I had to mention it for context, but I talk about why I’m done with Kemper due to a combination of bad PR and my experience with units going down mid tour. I do weigh in on the pricing. I do feel that it sets a precedent for other manufacturers to follow suit, but we’ll see. Also, if paid upgrades are tied to a user’s account and the user goes on to sell their base unit, they lose the money they invested in the upgrade, which could be a shame.
for me i understand paying for half of the updates. in terms of the effects and amps that makes sense, that is solid software updates and could be seen as add ons going fowards. However, having 4 blocks disabled at the get go is where they lost it for me.
The hardware is/was clearly capable with the amount of dsp built in of supporting 8 blocks like the standard kemper and they have removed that feature and locked it behind the fact you have to buy the first upgrade before you even get a sniff at the second upgrade to use the full horsepower of the unit.
I bought a used Player off ebay a few months back and it's great as it is.
I started playing guitar in the mid seventies and we were very limited with the gear we had to choose from or could afford. A lot of these gear companies are overkill with effects and other things that a musician will probably never use. I remember Malmsteen saying “work with what you have.” Then you can add accordingly to what you’re looking for. You can save a lot of time, money and aggravation.
Yeah, it was the same for me in the 90s. For years, all I had was a Marshall and a handful of pedals. My amp settings stayed the same for pretty much everything. My days of lugging a 4x12 up 4 flights of stairs are behind me because of all of the other options available, but it’s easy to forget how spoilt for choice guitarists are these days.
While this is good advice Malmsteen inherited his own recording studio at an early age and he came from a middle class family. My first guitar amp was me playing though the jack of my 3 in 1 Sony Hi-Fi and before that I couldn't afford an electric guitar so I spent a year on a free college course with my brand new £34 made in West Germany Classical guitar. I have owned a lot of different modelers but my search for tone was satisfied when I bought s used Kemper Player a few months back.
I completely agree with you on the Tone Junkie videos. I think Kemper might have shot themselves in the foot with this debacle. I know you have a different view than myself on this next point but, I believe that Kemper did deliberately lock out functionality that the unit was totally capable of at launch, to pave the way for 'levelling up'.
@@stevegardiner8473 I totally understand why people feel that Kemper nerfed the unit at launch.
Also, is this upgrade vs update debate just clever marketing, given that most major firmware updates are upgrades?
Good on you, Bobby for doing what you feel is right. I have not had any profiler. I practice, and build my own amps.
I've supported kemper for 10+ years through the toaster, rack, and stage and I even got my player as soon as they were available here in korea. I Sold my player (at a much lower price because the value dropped, mind you) when they announced this garbage and got an axe fx fm3. Kemper ruined themselves with this debacle.
The Tone Junkie people are lashing out because they see this as an attack on their income. I lost all respect for Kemper and the people at Tone Junkies. And that pedo/stuff was really disturbing.
What pedo stuff?
this will be how it is for most tech in the future from amp models to cars. subscriptions. it sucks and i wont buy their stuff this way. was thinking of getting into kemper but wont do it now.
I think everybody’s hoping that paid upgrades aren’t the future and that other manufacturers don’t follow suit.
@@BobbyHarrisonGuitar i will be keeping my physical pedals and amps :)
This is how the bad companies will do things. The good ones know better.
But this is not a subscription, though, is a one-time paid upgrade. The price may be debatable but the concept I can get behind, especially given the track record of Kemper so far (reg. updates for their original profilers). A subscription is a completely different thing that I would definitely avoid.
@fedest I don’t think I mentioned a subscription model once in my video. My video was mainly about Kemper’s PR and how they got behind Tonejunkie hurling abuse at people.
It'd be helpful to know, before I buy a product, if the manufacturer has built in features that are not yet realized, with the idea of selling you future upgrades; at least I know, going into it, that it might be the case.
I was going to buy a Kemper player a few weeks ago, but was sold out. So glad it was, they’ve lost a potential new customer with this approach. I could maybe cope with £50 for both upgrades/updates but £300!! No thanks
But if it was good enough a few weeks ago, and they didn't remove any of the functionality it had a few weeks ago, nor made it more expensive to have that functionality, why do you feel this is such a put off? Why do feel that the extras you could now get with the upgrades are at the same time too expensive, but yet essential to have to the point of not making the unit worth it anymore without them? if anything, I'd be more excited to know that in a sense it future-proofs my purchase, in the sense that I ever want to extend the functionality that was sufficient for me at first, I have the option of buying the upgrade instead of selling the Player to buy a Stage.
For what they charge for the original hardware, updates, upgrades, or whatever you want to call it, they should be at no cost to user. Do you pay for updates to your computer or your cell phone? No. If you want more revenue make a better box than the rest.
I paid a lot for my mac that included garage band, but have to pay more if I want to use logic🤔
@@fedest Logic is a different box. Not the same as GarageBand.
@@F.O.H. runs on the same hardware, for which they charge a lot, and is produced by the same company, so by your reasoning, they should give it to me for free. These days, it's the software what mainly differentiates these units from each other, and the bigger part of what people is paying for.
@@fedestLogic is a different product, not an upgrade. Kemper upgrades are extensions, not different software programs.
@@nikkinik2161 labeling Logic as a different product than Garage Band is more of a product/marketing strategy than a matter of the usage and function they offer. One could argue that Garage Band is in the league of the “lite” daw versions that usually come bundled together with an interface, and Logic in the league of the full version that you need to pay full price if you want to use it…
But that’s beyond the point: Logic is software made by apple that run on macs and can be installed but you need to pay to unlock, and no-one claims the hardware is binned because of that.
The actual counter argument here is that in apple hardware you can still run third party software that can leverage that hardware (as much as Logic), whereas in the Player you can’t. So then it’s a matter of whether the hardware that is “idle”when not getting the upgrade is increasing the price unnecessarily, and by how much - My guess is that’s probably a negligible amount if any.
Absolutely shocking, mate. 😡
Isn’t it, mate?
I've encountered the exact same volume pedal issues you mention, among other glitches, with various Kemper units I've played through while depping on West End shows. I think it comes down to the fact that the Profiler units probably weren't really designed with live use in mind, IMO. The implementation of live remote switching seems incredibly sketchy. Have you ever noticed the fact that the tap tempo light doesn't blink at a steady tempo, for example?
Never had any problem like that with Fractal gear and I've been using that for over 10 years...they also always give updates for free.
Yeah, I never had issues with Fractal. I moved to Kemper because it was easier, back in the day before fly rigs were tiny, to put a head, remote and expression pedal in a Peli 1610 that weighed less than 23kg, rather than check a rack case with an Axe FXII into the hold.
Plus a lot of hire companies bought Kempers, so you could just take a USB stick in your hand luggage if the baggage allowance didn’t allow for a Peli case.
Also, buying 2 identical Fractal rigs would (and still does) cost a king’s ransom.
@@BobbyHarrisonGuitar I reckon you could definitely do what you need with an FM3, which would fit in the aforementioned Peli case and be affordable enough for a spare. But horses for courses...
@@seshboy I've heard good things about the FM3. I've been using the Quad Cortex for a while and it ticks a lot of boxes for me in terms of portability, ease of use and sound. I'm an old bastard, so I always find myself drawn towards models or captures of real amps I've used, so I generally end up using Plexi, Deluxe Reverb, Super Reverb and AC30 models.
Hi Bobby
Would you use a boss IR-2?
@@fatgut5 I haven’t tried it, but I’ve heard good things. One of my students bought one recently.
@@BobbyHarrisonGuitar Look forward to your review! 🤞
"all rig and no gig" best quote i've heard recently. (I'm stealing that) Sums up the majority of gear-owners, i reckon. Not that there's anything inherently bad about that.
5:51 You definitely can't make jokes about that in Germany either. I did'nt even catch him saying that when i watched his video cause i was so irritated by how arrogant his whole appearance was. Now finding out he said something like that honestly makes him lose all my respect. His response to your comment and the response video he made did'nt help that either. Just obnoxious.
@@loneryouth It’s a shame because the Tonejunkie guys make great profiles.
@@BobbyHarrisonGuitar Yeah i agree. I bought a few Tonex profiles and really enjoy them. Recent stuff overshadows my willingness for future purchases though no not gonna lie. Thanks for your take on the subject! Pretty much agree with all of what you've said. Cheers!
Good size of Kemper : made me discover better Capture tech : ToneX! It’s even better (in feel and sound)
Had Kemper toaster and player but now much prefer using ToneX and nano cortex. Also LOVE NAM plugin
I bought a Tonex One which I used on a couple of gigs. It sounds great. I find the software clunky, but it’s great to keep as a spare and as a multi purpose pedal.
@@BobbyHarrisonGuitar you should try again the software, it’s improving very fast :)
Big update coming soon too! I’ll definitely hold onto mine.
My favorite is that Tone-X which actually CAN capture amps unlike the kemper player, but also has a display and costs WAY.WAY less is going to release a massive new update with lots of new effects.......for FREE. Oops on the timing, kemper - better luck next time!
@@steveareton697 I have a Tonex One. I used it a couple of times, but I find the software to be clunky. It’s handy to have as a backup though.
@@BobbyHarrisonGuitar Agreed about the software for the most part. Thankfully it was quick and easy enough for me to browse around their online tone cloud thing, try out a bunch of the most popular tones, download the few that I liked the most and get them into the pedal. In my mind, that's pretty much all I want it for, but yeah, I know there's lots more to it via the software which I didn't find as intuitive as I'd want. It looks like they've made a number of large improvements recently so maybe I'll take another stab at doing more with it on the software side. Cheers man!
Don't like the idea of paid updates personally. Not because they're intrinsically bad (people should be paid for work) but it's capitalism. Like Kemper have perhaps done, you'll start getting functionality gated off from the get-go to cash in on it later.
Hoping the thing you mentioned about loss leading (free updates for renewed interest) is strong enough to stave it away but we'll see I guess
Good point. Thanks mate.
Why do guitarists not read what Kemper says on their website before commenting on social media...so people know the difference between UPGRADE and UPDATE.
From the website.
"The Kemper Profiler Player now also lives in the Paradigm, the Philosophy of the original Kemper Profilers".
"NOTE: Of course the Level Upgrades do not replace the traditional free software and feature Updates tradition.
The LVL Upgrades are just an offer to optionally enhance the feature menu towards the bigger units".
I’m aware of all of the above. That’s not what my video is about. It’s about Kemper’s PR getting behind videos featuring name-calling and jokes about abuse.
@@BobbyHarrisonGuitar
Officially ToneJunkie has nothing to do with Kemper.
The guy who seems to be doing Kemper marketing I doubt watched the entire ToneJunkie video...he just shared it.
Did he share ToneJunkies first video or the second one with the stupid remark?
Kemper shared the video in which HW called anybody who complained about the upgrade/update entitled crybabies and losers and then went on to make a joke about ‘Where did the bad man touch you?’ Kemper very proudly and smugly got behind it.
I guess we just live in a world where people react without reading or watching the material they’re complaining about or commenting on.
@BobbyHarrisonGuitar they are crybabies
@@BobbyHarrisonGuitar
I'm pretty sure if they are made aware of that remark they'll remove it... no ways they approve of that.
On another subject.
I've got a photo saved of you standing next to your Kemper rig that you were using with Cliff Richard... correct?
Kemper can make a really funny April Fool’s Joke and announce that all hardware will require a subscription based model to even turn on and access basic functions. You have to pay extra to save presets and to use all the amps inside. 😂😂😂
Wait until that is what actually happens in ten years 🤣🤣🤣
Kemper have been giving free UPDATES for 12 years....how about Strymon quality Reverbs and Delays.
How about the Fuzz system and Drives.
How about Liquid Profiling.
The Player is perfect at Level 1, no need to Upgrade.
We'll continue to get free updates for all Kemper models for the next ten years.
However, imo Kemper are clueless at marketing...they need a new marketing manager..
@@guitartoneSA I agree. This isn’t just another video complaining about the upgrade/update debate. Of course, I had to mention it for context, but I talk about why I’m done with Kemper due to a combination of bad PR and my experience with units going down mid tour.
I do weigh in on the pricing. I do feel that it sets a precedent for other manufacturers to follow suit, but we’ll see.
Also, if paid upgrades are tied to a user’s account and the user goes on to sell their base unit, they lose the money they invested in the upgrade, which could be a shame.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Boycott kemper