Review: Dohnányi's Cleveland Box--40 CDs of (Almost) Unalloyed Excellence
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ย. 2024
- This box contains first-class recordings of Mozart, Brahms, Dvořák, Bruckner, Webern, Ives, Varèse, Bartók, Schumann, Lutoslawski, and much else besides, as well as some really bad Mahler--perhaps Dohnányi's only blind spot. But Wow! It's mostly amazing.
As someone who grew up in Cleveland in the 90's, I'm even more excited about this than the Szell box (which I own and adore). Going to concerts in those days and hearing the recordings, there was a palpable feeling that Cleveland was doing something incredible. Really excited to get my hands on this - thanks for the review!
A very helpful review for those of us who haven't followed Dohnányi's career on record. He's a conductor whose discography I've never gotten around to exploring. Now I am intrigued, especially since Cleveland is such an amazing orchestra. Thanks, Dave.
His Dvorak symphony 7,8,9 with Cleveland (Decca label) are among my all time favourites.
Used to work in Buffalo, NY, in the late 80s and early 90s, and we would drive to Cleveland on any Saturday when the CSO was playing. Wonderful memories.
So great that this wonderful conductor is being offered a whole video here! He has never received the same attention as other great conductors. His Dvorak 7 is the best, most thrilling, dark and passionate I‘ve ever heard.
Love that performance.
I was lucky enough to have attended his cleveland performances for his tenure there. His Bruckner is fantastic, some of the best out there. A gripping ninth in the mold of jochum.
Paul
Saw him in a Mahler 9th in April 1989. Blew my mind. The woodwinds had clearly sold their souls to the devil to achieve the sound they produced in the 3rd movement.
That motive in the Bruckner 5th you talked about, especially on clarinet, always seems to me to take a leap into the 20th century. Not quite Schoenberg but knocking on the door.
Which reminds me, I hope we do get a Dohnanyi Vienna box. While his Wozzeck is generally available, the Lulu has vanished since the two act pre-Perle three act version is not considered viable now. But it really is a superb performance as it stands.
This is one box that I've been waiting for a while and it does not disappoint. Now if only someone would consider a complete Viktoria Mullova on Phillips I would again be a very happy camper!
The Box is finally out & we must buy.
Such great level of performance & many wonderful memories as you were reading out the disc selections.
Just wish we had the option to purchase box without the mahler 😂😂😂😂
Some of my favourite orchestral recordings are in this box eg the Dvorak and Schumann symphonies. I note Dohnanyi gets original record sleeves reproduced, missing from Decca’s Maazel Cleveland box
Mine was delivered yesterday!🎉 Last night I listened to Dvorak 7 and 8. Wow! It will be great to listen through these records again. I feel at the time of their original release I took them for granted. What an orchestra!
And the 9th- which is my least liked of the Dvorak symphonies since it is so kitsch. When Cleveland plays it it does not sound mawkish.
Where did you buy it? I can’t find it anywhere!
I ordered mine from the DG store online. Came from Germany. Took about two weeks ( I live in the US)
More talks about individual orchestras please! History, character, state of play today...
Is "deconstruct" the word you were looking for vis-à-vis Mahler?
Haven't opened this box yet, but I'm excited to get to it. I really hope Decca does a Vienna (& any random leftovers) box. It'd be great if Warner would do one too, & also Telarc. Decca has some amazing stuff here with this, the Dorati/Detroit, Mehta/LA, & Blomstedt/SF boxes.
I do think it's very funny that they chose to use the Decca two-fer reissue cover for Dvorak 7-9, though.
Yes, that was it. Thanks.
I chose to believe you were able to do both locations because Scotty beamed you.
I'm pleased to see my complaints on Usenet about Decca, and its mistreatment of the Cleveland Orchestra, affirmed after all these decades. I share your outrage that Dohnányi was not allowed to finish his Ring. There was a concert performance of "Siegfried," and I think a broadcast tape exists, but recording sessions did not follow it. I don't think there was even a concert performance of "Götterdämmerung." What a missed opportunity, and what a slap in the face to the orchestra and conductor!
If I remember correctly “Earth Dances” was a Cleveland orchestra commission. Came out on a “single” back in the day. It’s an exciting work and must be hard to execute!
Perhaps in light of this box set, I need to reappriase more widely Dohnanyi's work in Cleveland. I collected and enjoyed their more esoteric stuff (things like the amazing Bartok, Lutoslawski, Ives, Ruggles, Birtwistle mentioned); however, in more standard repertoire I got disappointed. The Schumann 3 & 4 symphonies to me just feel like clinical, soulless run throughs, and the Shostakovich 10th for, all its dazzling precision, light weight and emotionally detached (not a patch on Ancel or Jarvi). I didn't really explore much further after this but perhaps now?
Thanks for another great talk. Dohnanyi also made some recordings with the Philharmonia and I'd like to know your opinion on those compare to his Cleveland ones
Where the repertoire is the same, Cleveland is generally better.
What about Mahler's recordings? I don't understand the details that according to you make them bad versions. I've just listened to the fifth and I think it's fantastic.
A cavalcade of excellence! Not sure Dave if you just coined that phrase but if you ever write an autobiography you can call it that. BTW I have been looking for the Brahms Symphonies which are impossible to find it seems. I do not like Mahler much but I like Dohanyi's Mahler 5, I was happy that it is one you liked. Dohanyi/Cleveland Dvorak and Schumann Symphonies are the ones I listen to the most. I think that the Cleveland/Dohanyi recordings, together with the San Francisco/Blomstedt recordings, represent the state-of-the art of what modern recording technology can achieve in a studio setting, they are the reference in my collection. I might purchase this box to get the 30 or so recordings that I do not have.
Dohnanyi's Brahms is available!
@@fred6904 Cool, I have to search for them.
A conductor at this level of excellence deserves us all to have in our collection. Get it before it goes out of print. I’m making my way through this set.
Dave, just out of curiosity, what do you consider to be the best recording that the Cleveland Orchestra ever made of Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique?
None of them.
Is this actually available? Amazon has only three sellers, and from Amazon
I actually prefer Dohnanyi's interpretations of Beethoven/Brahms over Carlos Kleiber. Agree about his Mahler - I own his Mahler 5 which is not interpreted well and I even hear intonation issues in the winds.
Well, it looks like this has already sold out. Do we trust Decca to print more of them?
It would’ve been great if they were able to license the live Cleveland “box.” Those recordings complement these ones so well!
Dave, it seems like there aren't a ton of Cleveland recordings with conductors other than its own music directors. Am I mistaken here? Do you know why that is?
I don't think that's really true.
Went back and listened to Dohnanyi Mahler 5. "Underplayed" isn't quite the right way to describe it. They certainly "play" for Dohnanyi in terms of dynamics and effort. Rather, I think a better way to describe his Mahler is "overly controlled." At least to my tastes, Mahler should have a certain spontaneity and freedom, which Dohnanyi doesn't achieve in the slightest.
Same difference.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Fair enough, but I think my description is more accurate.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Based on Berlin Philharmonic with von Karajan, I don't think "underplayed" is not the same as "overly controlled."
Perhaps one of the benefits of the age of the fly-in-fly out conductor is that orchestras can maintin their distinctiveness. No conductor hangs around for long enough to put their individual stamp on the "sound", assuming that modern conductors even have that aspiration... Szell trivia: I was talking to a very old RSNO hand long ago who reminisced about Szell's time in Glasgow, where he was based before Cleveland. According to this chap Szell was a quite magnificent cook & was renowned for dinner parties featuring superb cooking & would even commander railway dining cars on tour & cook up a storm.
Yes, he was known for his cooking.
Some more fun Szell trivia: In one of the 2-3 biographies on Szell, I read that he would get very curious and interested in the trains on tour and on one occasion climbed up onto the engine car to get a closer look. At one point he was caught doing this and scolded, so he replied, "Don't worry, I'm the conductor of the Cleveland Orchestra!" to which the person who saw him said something to the effect of, "And I'm the conductor of this train, now get down!" (I think it was from George Szell's Reign by Kraus, lots of other good stories in that book)
So, none of his Beethoven cycle in this box? Kind of strange, no?
The Beethoven is on Telarc.
@@smurashige Ah, ok. So the labels won’t play nice to make a more complete box for Christoph and Cleveland. I can never keep it straight who owns what these days.
@@mhc2231 Yes, it is hard to keep track. I just so happen to have their recording of the Beethoven 9th.
I love that Telarc cycle
@@frgraybean But Szell remains tough to surpass in the Beethoven symphonies!
When Dave dropped the cube, I literally shrieked and winced... For ~$300.00... be more careful, Dave!
I was making a point.