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DEBUNKING Chris Kirkpatrick on Indexed Universal Life Insurance
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ม.ค. 2023
- Chris Kirkpatrick has been telling a lot of tall tales about Indexed Universal Life insurance. I'm going to debunk his claims one-by-one. I recently saw an interview of him discussing life insurance and couldn't believe what I was hearing.
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Any plans to debate Chris Kirkpatrick about IUL?
You have to be skeptical of anyone who systematically tries to make themselves look good by making others look bad. That is Chris Kirkpatrick. One question that I have for Chris is why he chooses to cite Dave Ramsey when it's convenient for him to emphasize his points in one video and flat-out calls him a liar in others. He calls him a liar directly in the title of some of these. Which is it, Chris?
The problem with IUL is the flexibility it has. Agents and clients can get in trouble by not properly funding the contract.
But that’s pretty much the same with all life insurance contracts, no?
This is very interesting. I like how out of all 80 videos I've done on how IUL works you focus on pretty much the only 3 points that were based on my opinion and breakdown of IUL based on conversations with Actuaries. There are so many holes in this video. This will be fun.
PS, Dave, anytime you want to do a live debate on whole life VS IUL, I am game. Name the time and place. I'll fly to you and we can do it.
Mr. Chris Kirkpatrick, you are so outlandish with your words and claims, you are the criminal and spreading bad information. The difference is minimal to nothing and all depends on the particular person, however for most the IUL is actually better. David McKnight is such a better person to take advice from, it's not even close. You are a troll and scaring people into doing business with you when the biggest difference with whole life is it may work better with infinite banking which only 1 or 2% of people actually do. Chris Kirkpatrick has more holes in his videos and skewed information than anyone I have ever watched.
@davidlentini6600 if that's the case, you should take me up on the IUL challenge. You can keep slinging insults. I'll take the high road and let ACTUAL history and results of IUL speak for itself
@@LIFE180 First off, by your response, you gave up the high road, it just shows your character. Second, I'm not slinging insults, I'm spreading truth because people like you are detrimental with your hard slant on your perspective with misinformation. People work hard for their money and I can only guess how many people you "helped" that would have been better of with an IUL. And your constant ripping of the IUL or anything in general as a rule, is suspicious in itself and not the high road as you seem to think you take. All you need to do is tell all the benefits of what you believe in, instead of tearing something down. Again, the IUL is not nearly as bad as you make it out to be, it's not bad at all and suitable for the majority of people's general goals.
@davidlentini6600 I'll leave it at this with you. You don't know me. You don't know my background. You don't know my experience.
My constant ripping of IUL comes from a place of wanting to protect people. I left a level postion at one of the top IUL companies in the country and wound up in a law suit with them threatening me for 2 years after I left to not share what I learned...
I left the industry in 2016. Everyone saying I am doing this to simply sell whole life is clueless. I've been making these videos since that time and I gave up my license in 2016 so I could educate people about the truth - even at my detriment as I could no longer sell or make money selling insurance.
I finally got back into the industry on a formal basis at the very end of 2021. I push whole life because of what I know.
Once again, actions speak louder than words. I am fully aware the throngs of IUL agents will attack me because you have a lot to lose....I get it. I'm not stopping.
I will have a live debate with any IUL influencer who has a platform ANYTIME. Funny how I have offered that to so many, yet they all just ghost me.
It's easy to make videos talking about hype of IUL'S. It's not easy defending them when someone knows how they actually work.
Dave's video here is half baked. As I listened to it I was talking to myself how it didn't make sense. Now, if you don't know what I know, I can see how you would buy into it.
It'll all play out. I'm not going anywhere. I tried to leave Dave and his Power of Zero alone. I actually like a lot of what he teaches outside of the IUL stuff. But he picked the fight with me...
@@LIFE180 I don’t know what results you are talking about, the top IUL’s don’t have caps on growth depending on the indexed strategy and have averaged over 12% the last 15 years with a well diversified proprietary index and if someone wants a guaranteed return for that year if they feel the market will go down or not do well, it’s an average of over 4%. I sell both whole life and IUL, it depends on my client and their situation. Sometimes I split it up between the two. It’s about my client, not me.
Please help us understand more. This kirkpatrick guy make me confused now
He (and his friends) are very theatrical when they discuss why they think IUL is "dangerous". I actually heard a guy on one of his videos go so far as to say that he stopped selling IULs because he was afraid of his clients committing suicide. 🤦♂
Holy Smokes!
Thanks for this Dave. When I was a kid, my Mom told me "just because you read it in the paper doesn't mean it's true", then it applied to TV, and now the internet. I've never heard of this guy before your video, but having been in financial services for 33 years now I've lived through the "facts" that he is claiming are true and in my experience they are nonsense. I have many clients who are retired now and enjoying the tax free cash flow from their policies and this wouldn't have happened if this guy was even remotely correct. Moving on.
Couldn't agree more Robert. Thanks for your comment!
Do you have clients in IUL policies?
Best part of the youtube algorithm is when I look at the content pro IUL; then on my dashboard I get the cons of IUL. Thanks TH-cam A.I., I am more confused than ever. 😅 But seriously I like the information for each prospectives.
Hi David, great video. I need more info on both iuL and whole life debate him live so the truth will come out.
This guy is bad news. I've commented on his videos in the past. Don't forget that WL companies offered dividends close to 10% in the 90s. Those dividend rates were cut 50% the last 20 years and have just now started increasing. So there isn't one WL company that has performed per their illustration over that peroid. Not one. And now they don't even offer 4% guarantees. I sell both. Just depends on the client. With IUL you have the opportunity to get double digit returns several times over 20 years. With WL, you're stuck with whatever the dividend rate is, no matter how hot the market. And wit IUL you know exactly what the costs are. WL companies don't show that so you never know. If structured properly the IUL can work very well long term.
Great comment. Thank you.
@@davidmcknight8201 Looking forward to seeing you next month at the Heroes Of Zero Conference in Nashville! I'll be there.
This is a good point you made about WL policy illustrations from the 90’s also not meeting or exceeding illustrations from then due to dividends coming down.
All he's saying is with IUL you the client are assuming more of the risk. With whole life the insurance company is assuming the risk. As long you make the required payments those payments will never increase. In the case of the IUL, UL VUL if the product does not perform then there is a possibility cost of insurance and mortality costs may force the insured to increase his payments to keep the policy in force.
@@ServiceDunn It's all in how you design the policy. If you design the IUL the right way, you really don't have to worry about having to pay extra premium in the future. The IUL will perform over the long term because the markets will perform over the long term. So cash value grows and the spread between the cash value and the death benefit continues to decrease. So the cost of insurance is kept at bay and is actually quite low in the later years in comparison to the cash value. We're talking about total cost of less than .50 percent, which does not occur with whole life. In those cases the IUL has very little risk. No one has been talking about VUL anywhere on these forums. It's always WL or IUL. VUL is bad because you can lose a lot of cash value in a market downturn and the cost are high because of the separate accounts. Not an issue with IUL. If someone designs the IUL for death benefit alone driving up the target premium, yes you can run into issues. But that doesn't mean the IUL product is bad. It means it wasn't designed right. There are people out there writing whole life policies for death benefit and won't break even for 10 to 15 years. Ridiculous. Those whole life policies are crap. And there are tons of them out there. But this guy never mentions that. Some of these guys get on here and act like WL is bulletproof and IUL is a piece of junk. I believe those guys are unethical. Whole life is good for those who want to warehouse their wealth and leverage it through loans for debt elimination and business opportunities. But those whole life policies are expensive internally and will not produce decent tax free income in retirement. Whereas an IUL is superior for tax free income and works well for loans after a few years. Whole life is expensive. Design a WL well and then design the IUL well with the same client and the same numbers. Then run an internal rate of return report on each. You will see the IUL has a much better IRR....so the costs are less. AND you can see the exact costs of the IUL in a report. No one knows what the cost of a whole life policy is because the insurance companies will never show that.
He talks and says... Oh I wish I would have brought my graph but I didn't know we were gonna go here with the conversation. BS!!! If someone wants to debunk something they bring every piece of evidence possible! He's just someone who has an agenda against IUL for whatever reason.
Great video! I agree with you, it’s all about what is right for the client. Too many people pick a product and spread propaganda on the other product without knowing and understanding the facts. Their mind is made up before getting to learn the other product.
Thanks for your comment!
14:30 perfect thesis for a new agent
Thanks for clearing this up. That patrick don't know peanuts
You're welcome.
As a British person who now lives in the states for the last 30 years. The Tylenol vs Advil commercial never leaves me. When I arrived here 30 years ago and saw how they bashed each other on Television I was initially shocked…. Now I know. It’s normal in America to disparage the competition to try and get ahead. I see you almost do the same with Doug Andrew’s content.
If we can't dialogue on these things, the conversation never advances. You have to do it respectfully, but none of this should be out of bounds if we're after the truth.
Excellent video, as a new Agent in the business. Knowing the truth is the most thing !
Absolutely!
There are too many people like Kirkpatrick in this industry. Doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.
Fanboy
But with his presentation you would think he does I bet he is a good salesman, just a clueless one in reality lol
I am watching this vid because of a call I recieved today…guy is offering a fixed indexed universal policy, but it sounds too good to be true…the example we discussed I deposit $25k per year for 4 years…the fifth year the “bank” deposits something like $268k to work alongside my roughly $100k, they do this for 10yrs where at the end I have a cash value account of about $1.5m from which I will be paid over a 10yr payout…plus a lump sum, $99k per yr for 10yrs…I can’t help but wonder why the bank as he called it would deposit $$ for me to benefit and grow my returns…sound fishy to me…maybe I watch too much American greed….
David I always learn something new when I watch your videos. You are one of my top mentors.
I don’t think it’s the desire to do the right thing reason caps and par rates stay competitive on old policies. It likely the company needs to keep contract competitive to avoid adverse risk pool. Companies have found out if don’t keep competitive the healthiest leave for new products. Those that are unhealthy can’t leave. Must stay competitive to avoid doom loop of bad mortality experience.
Thanks Kerry. That is certainly part of it.
Chris Kirkpatrick is either very confused on how an IUL works or he is a dishonest guy who will tell falsehoods in order to sell his whole life policies. I have seen countless IUL policies produce incredible results for clients. IUL is the favorite policy of the ultra rich. I have worked on the inside and know for a fact that is the truth.
I've seen great results too. Thanks for your comment.
What is a good Ins Company that offers the most indexing options?
Send me an email at info@powerofzero.com and I’ll tell you which two companies I use.
True..they tell you 9-13%..in reality that’s not so..
A rep told me if I get an IUL I can pay my premium for 20 years and I won’t have to pay anymore and keep my benefits and the cash value is still there. How true is this?
No guarantees. Depends on how well the underlying indexes do.
@@DavidMcKnight what do you suggest? I’m 36 years old with no health issues.
@@devonmccarthy7802if you go to davidmcknight.com we’d be happy to take a look at you situation and give your our thoughts.
read the contract or illustration. That clearly shows "zero premium does not client dont need to pay" etc.
Average rates of return can be very misleading. I like to see actual rates of returns when comparing policies. What type of policy would you recommend to a individual who want to start a LIRP at age 25 vs a person at age 50 ? Thanks!
VUL for 25 and IUL for 50. In neither scenario would I recommend Whole Life.
Can we buy stock of our own choice in VUL?
@@nasirawan479 no. You typically have to choose from a series of sub-accounts that mimic mutual funds.
Thank you David! I came across one of his videos awhile back and a bunch of red flags lol
You’re welcome
If the IUL advertises no cuts to the cap rate, meanwhile they can use other levers such as participation rate or spread, and vice versa. The main criticism of IUL’s is that the company will guarantee one or two levers but manipulate the third, drastically reducing your returns
I don’t understand. No company says they won’t cut their cap rate. If you want to know if a company is likely to abuse their ability to manipulate their cap rates to the detriment of their clients, just look at their 20 year track record.
@@DavidMcKnight Not just the cap rate, but also changing the par rate or the spread, those are two additional levers that can lower returns
@@thomassittinger8150most companies have either a cap rate or a par rate but not both on the same product.
Chris has the IUL challenge and says he bet you can’t show him a policy outside the surrender that is beating the original illustration. Says if you can show him that he will pay something like $1,000. Dave you should go collect an easy money. Ha ha
I had heard about that challenge I think.
@@DavidMcKnight Here's the link: th-cam.com/video/dsWrHWqj7D0/w-d-xo.html
I am gathering my iul clients on the books since 2009 and show him he is utterly wrong.
@@vangustia is there anyway this can be recorded of course to hide client infor but just show multiple statements and to have Chris live to show him statement after statement along with original illustration?? I wanna see this.
@@vangustia Would love to see your results.
David if you just debate chris i think it would do a lot of good for the general public who doesn't know anything about cash value life insurance.
I think my videos do a pretty good job of informing the public.
@@DavidMcKnight😂😂It is so clear you aren’t confident in your opinion and facts enough to debate him. It’s embarrassing.
@@jianipierre5040You’re right, after having sold 600,000 books on the subject matter, I lack confidence. You nailed it.
@@DavidMcKnight sold 600,000 books on the subject but scared to debate ONE man on that same subject. Me and you both know book sales don’t equate to truth.
Who are the top 3 IUL companies
This we’d all like to know.
I don't discuss companies on this channel (I try not to), but if you reach out at info@powerofzero.com, I can respond.
I've been researching a lot into IUL and this was definitely good, because I've been listening to Chris Kirkpatrick, I was trying to see the cons. One thing i am unsure of is the par rates, the percentage on that. And what would you is the cons to IUL? I'm looking to invest into IUL starting as soon as possible but I am not sure whats the minimum and what is the best company.
Usually when you have an IUL with a cap the par rate is 100%.
As a non-captive broker, make sure you find someone who can structure it properly for you!
The best company is FG with their “pathsetter” policy
Insurance isn't an investment.
wow! thank you Patrick for this video.
David?
I’m not an insurance guy and please correct me if I’m wrong; IUL’s have annual renewable term life insurance.
As you get older the annual cost of these will kill the golden goose, so if you’re hoping for any cash value as you get older, folks.
The annual cost of these increases every year. Here it is every five years:
@65 it’s $5,034
@70 it’s $8,400
@75 it’s $15,456
@80 it’s $27,906
@85 it’s $52,782
@90 it’s $99,294
It doesn’t take a mathematician to know this is unsustainable, folks
If you structure it under option 1, the amount you’re required to pay for gradually reduces to 0 by the time you hit age 95.
@@DavidMcKnight
How many options are there and what do they mean?
If this is too much in the weeds perhaps you can reference a video or something that discusses these options.
@@jimcrowley1709 There are two different death benefit options. I discuss it in this video towards the middle I believe: th-cam.com/video/1ehJbxx6omA/w-d-xo.html
@@jimcrowley1709 if you choose Level DB option once you stop funding the policy,the DB will not go higher until your cashvalue gets closer to death beenfit..at 42 years if you signup for a policy with say 495k DB.. 40 years from now if you assume a 7% growth(slight on the high side but easy for calculation). If you structure it properly,it will take 5 years to breakeven..so by 47 years,if you pay 100k in premiums,you will have 100k in cashvalue..by the rule of 72,if we assume a 7% return after policy expenses..100k will double to 200k in 10 more years it will double to 400k,in another 10 it will double to 800k by age 77..the DB has to go up per IRS guideleines so the policy doesn’t turn into a MEC..DB has to be roughly around 5% more then the cashvalue so it would be 840k..since your cashvalue is 800k,you are only paying for 40k of Death benefit..although cost per unit is much higher at age 77, you are only paying for 40k worth of DB ..if you do the math you will see that you are paying much lower for cost of insurance..what you say about costs going up is true if you choose an increasijg DB option..
@@kriskris5989 this was a perfect answer
Love the video..what are your favorite IUL companies?
send me a message at info@powerofzero.com and I can let you know. Prefer not to discuss companies on this channel.
Great commentary as always see you in Nashville inFebruary
Can't wait!
What is in Nashville?
@@vangustia the professionals forum
Great video. I like both you and Chris... and interestingly, I sell BOTH products: about 1/2 WL & 1/2 IUL.
Yes, he seems like a very nice guy. The point here is that you can like both and not trash one or the other. Thanks for your comment Ron.
@@DavidMcKnight Yes, 100% agree 👍🏻
@DavidMcKnight I'll be responding shortly formally. You don't get to say you think I seem like a nice guy after starting the video stating that "I'm on the prowl", as if I'm a criminal. Smh... if you're gonna take swings like this, it's best to connect and not whiff.
Don't think I haven't noticed that you've responded to everyone's comment bit mine challenging you to a live debate.
I'll have a response video to this shortly. I just landed in AZ after my event in Vegas.
@@LIFE180 Hi Chris. I too just got off a plane. Thanks for your responses. I look forward to your formal video response. If that is filled with a lot of unsubstantiated claims I will respond accordingly.
@@DavidMcKnight sounds good. So, still no response to the debate? If you are so confident in your positioning, this should be the perfect opportunity for you to put me in my place. A live debate for us both to be 100% transparent about what we know/believe and do it live so people can see the truth. I'm willing to put my reputation on the line, how about you?
David, are the average annual crediting rates referenced in the video gross rates or net of the fees? Thanks
Always gross rates of return
@@DavidMcKnight So David the IUL not only underperformed the S&P500 with that gross return it makes matters worse when you have to take into consideration expenses. Could you please share what the net return was from that same period?
Not a stock market replacement. It’s a bond replacement. Gross returns of 8%.
@@DavidMcKnight but aren’t IUL’s sold as Index Universal Life with the index component being benchmarked with the S&P? If not, I was not aware of Bond indexes and learned something new. I also guess when salesmen talk about uncapped growth potential they make sure to clarify that it is uncapped growth when comparing to bonds.
@@learntheharvway9431 They aren't linked to bond indexes. They're linked to equity indexes, but that doesn't mean they're intended to produce equity-like returns. They're not. They're intended to produce bond-like returns.
What was the actual rate of return
Of what?
so why would i do nvest in insurance not on my pre tax employer retirement?
You should do both.
Because of the future income taxes and your pre-tax employer plan is also exposed to stock market losses. Your life insurance plan s as voids both.
@@paulharvey9961 ok but IUL indexed their investment as well and capped it so if the market goes up , you don't fully get the benefits of the bull?
Thank you Dave.
Chris Kirkpatrick is like, still in kindergarten, totally have no idea!!
Perfect explanation, thanks David.
Thanks!
All one needs to know is run when you hear permanent life insurance. Did I say RUN.
Why? Please back up your naked assertion.
In a zero earning year, you still have to pay fees. That is the trick.
Yes. And I have acknowledged this in video after video. The real trick is to stick with your IUL long enough (particularly past the 10th year when most of the fees drop off) so that even in a down year those fees don’t disrupt the momentum of the policy.
Every life insurance will have fees
@@user-ht7po9ss8z indeed.
Bravo!
Thanks!
Chris seems like he is new in the business and found a new found toy in whole life.
He's been in since 2009. One of his vidoes he stated he used to design the pricing models for IULs for an insurance company so he has intimate knowledge of how they work or something to that effect. I think it was the video he did with Caleb Gilliam.
@@thehfginc He wasn't involved with pricing models. He says he was Head of Biz Dev for NLG. I have been contracted with NLG since 2008. Never heard of him. He was not in the IUL biz long enough to see how IL performs.
@@vangustia”not in IUL business long enough” … no one has since they’ve only been around two decades and only became any measurable volume of insurance business after GFC in ‘08. Relying on a maybe with a product that hasn’t existed long enough to know what will happen in a bear market. Absolutely a hard pass!
@@dontfighttheriptide4091 funny, that’s what they said about bitcoin too yet millionaires were made.
@vangustia you never heard of him, but there's so many other people you've never heard of in that company. Are you saying he never worked there?
David it looks like you got Chris all riled up. He wants to challenge you. If you need back up on IUL's for the past 14 years let me know. I have IUL policies that are what the illustration states.
Can you send me your contact info at info@powerofzero.com?
@@DavidMcKnight yes. I will email you soon.
Is it worth purchasing an IUL at age 60
If you got a bunch of money to put into it yea it’s worth it.
Certainly. Depends upon your needs, etc. We do it routinely for tax and income reasons.
Properly structured, max funded....Absolutely. Good luck
Yes I have one pending underwriting on a 65 year old right now. I have written several policies for the over 60 crowd.
Potentially. Depends on the situation.
Under promiseb😂
Let's talk about the premiums that get more expensive towards the end of the policy in the later yrs
If you have more cash value and less risk why are you charging more
Have you ever looked at an IUL illustration that’s been properly designed? If so, I’m not sure how you’re arriving your conclusions. You rather seem like you have an axe to grind.
th-cam.com/video/a11V6Yi2wqU/w-d-xo.html . So Mr. Kirkpatrick has thrown the gauntlet.
I conduct neither my life nor my business based on other peoples’s thrown gauntlets. And anyone who does so is a fool.
How do we know that companies A & B are real?
I don’t discuss companies on my channel but if you send me an email at info@powerofzero I can send you the company-produced pieces that show these rates of return.
Scam artist
Thus is 1 account show me the overall performance with the sorce of the study not just the policy that the agent probably wrote for them selves
The fact that you lead with an ad hominem shows me how little support you have for your arguments. I’ve done lots of videos on my channel showing you actual returns for these policies.