Episode 5 How to Measure Chainwear
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
- In Episode 5 Adam Kerin from Zero Frirction Cycling demostrates how to measure your chain for elongation. A worn chain will quickly damage the teeth of your gear sprockets, because the distance between chain rivets exceeds the spacing between the teeth. Zero Friction Cycling always welcomes commenst and we will endeavour to engage as quickly as possible. Please enjoy !
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Exceptionally informative content, thank you!
Good video! I’ve been following your testing and appreciate the informative content.
sorry ha i say episode 5 but episode 4 (waxing chain) was split due to length so this became episode 6 in the end :)
Thank you and will share / I personally use a 6 feet piece of wood and put 2 pins and use the pins to hang the chain and cut chain to length and serves as elngation tool as well knowing the new vs old length
yes that method works, but still an accurate chain wear checker is much superior. For one - measuring full length - you do not detect when one section of chain is wearing much faster than others - and that almost always happens over time. The most worn section may cause wear damage to cassette by time chain is replaced when at 0.5% overall. For two - this method just takes enough time that most rarely get around to checking very often, and so by the time they do, too often chain is past replacement mark, and a lot of wear damage occurred. With say the shimano tl-cn-42 tool, one can check 3 to 5 sections of chain in about 15 seconds. So it is just so easily done regularly, and people can stay on top of chain wear so much better. Guaranteed, those with an accurate drop in checker, check and replace before too worn, at a VASTLY better rate vs those who check wear by removing chain and measuring full length. Easier, and overall more accurate - is the way to go. it is a one off purchase that will last forever - an accurate drop in checker is a cyclists best friend indeed.
Adam, great show.
My question is is the Shimano TL-CN42 “chain indicator” ok to use on Campagnolo or SRAM chains.
Thanks Anthony
Any thoughts on wipperman Connex chainwear checker? I've had it for ages and can't remember why but it was recommended at the time
IMHO the best way to measure the chain is by using a digital caliper. Go/no go calipers only indicate to you if the chain can or can not be used, but digital caliper allows to track progress and to see exactly where you are at. However, the easiest and most consistent way to do that will be between the "wide" or "external" links with little upper jaws. The number should be around 132mm for new chain and around 132.6 for 0.5% worn. However, not all the manufacturers provide the magical number. And it may be manufacter or even model dependant. E.g. I tried checking the numbers for Connex but was ignored by them. Of course, one can just measure the new chain and add 0.5% to the number but it is not as exact as it could be with manufacturer's data, becuase then there would be at least one constant. Adam, did you try obtainning the numbers from the manufacturers or possibly used a lab grade caliper with special jaws to get that data? A table like that could be really helpful. Clearly, for your chain wear tracking you are not using a go no go calipers, so there has to be a better, more precise and informative way to do it.
Great video. Thanks. I am enjoying the learning you are providing in your videos. I am beginning my waxing journey. I am however wondering if your digital calipers confirm what the "other brand" tool noted and if the Shimano tool was the outlier? Keep up the great work.
Thanks tim! Digital calipers will typically agree with the recommend shimano tl-cn-42 - noting there will be some difference due to calipers measing elongation wear only, and drop in checker still picking up roller wear / roller diameter differences (srams are bigger than shimano etc even for non flat top chains). For most if done right digital calipers are perfectly good way to do, it is just that about 99% of the population will struggle to do that properly, it needs to be super easy and super reliable so that it can be done frequently and quickly on multiple sections of chain. '
it is on the to do list to find more chain checker options vs just one reliable recommendation as there are so many out there, but so many i have already checked have been a let down still leaving me with the shimano tool the only one i have confidence in.
@@zerofrictioncycling992Cycling, Thanks. I'll get the one you recommend. I am very grateful for the information you are making available.
Hello, I’m a new subscriber and love your knowledge transfer! Thank you very much! I got one question… Can i use my old 11 Speed one on my new 1x12 system? Or did i need a twelve speed specific?
Hi Irfkapatan - do you mean chain or chain checker? chain you should definitely run a 12spd chain. Chain checker is fine across all bicycle chains except 1/8th track chains as they have a much larger roller. but all bicycle chains are 1/2 pitch - distance from pin to pin, and mostly very similar roller sizes (typically within 0.1mm diameter variance) and so chain checker works for all bicycle chains except 1/8th chains. Note though there is a big variance in accuracy of chain checkers- not something i can check for all models / all brands, i just know from what i have tested, far too many are not accurate, the shimano tl-cn-42 is the only one so far i have 100% confidence in every tool as they are laser cut vs cast and finished.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thank you very much! I was talking about the chain checker. Just ordered one for my 12speed GX an X01 rig’s! Amazing content and thank you for the response. ❤️
Doesn't the slit on the right hand side of the Shimano chain checker allow for the pins inserted into the rollers to be bent under force, allowing you to effectively shorten the tool to get both ends into the rollers? Ultimately showing that the chain is done when it might have quite a bit left?
on the right hand side, they flex to allow that end of the tool to slot in and isolate roller wear in an attempt to provide an elongation only wear measure, however the drop in end is still going to pick up roller wear, so to me it is a bit mute isolating roller wear at one out of two points for the check measure. But honestly all that is a bit here nor there, at least the shimano tool is always dead on, 0.5 = 0.5.
Very informative content! One question:
As we all know, a dirty chain (lubed with poor oil, never cleaned….) will stretch way faster than a clean an properly lubed / waxed chain.
But does the dirty chain also cause more wear on the cassette and chainrings than the clean chain if you do not ride it past 0.5 ?
Yes. As the rollers settle onto tooth face as load comes in there is a small amount of movement. If that movement has something abrasive between roller and tooth face, over the hundreds and thousands and millions of such interfaces it will be accelerated wear vs that occurring without abrasive stuff in there.
Good steel cogs and rings can hold up to this pretty well and so if replace by 0.5 - as the poor lubricant will have the chain get to 0.5 pretty quick - they will normally still be fine as total interactions lower by say 2000km than it would be by say 8000km to 0.5 if the lubricant wasnt so bad. But alloy cogs can wear pretty easily and just not be as resistant to any type of abrasive wear.
Another way to think of it is that say even though if replace and abrasive lubricated chain at 0.5 and circa 2000 to 3000km and still getting two chains to a cassette - thats say 4000 to 6000km. Whereas a good lubricant getting 0.5 to 8000km - even one chain you are still ahead. And then you should get another chain etc. So more abrasive is just more bad! :)
Curious that Dave Rome doesn't rate the TL-CN42!
Tks Adam. Which chain checker would you recommend for SRAM AXS flat top chains?
I dont have one yet unfortunately - the only ones i know of out there use same graduation mark for axs flat top as well as non flat top, and it is physically impossible for that to be accurate for both standards. if it is correct for other chains, it will give false low wear reading for axs flat top. If it is correct for flat top, it will be well out for all others. At this time i recommend using digital calipers, measure from start of pin to start of 10th pin. A link is 12.7mm, so 10x that = 127mm. When you can measure 127.5mm from start of pin to start of 10th pin, time to replace. Need to check multiple sections under tension from rear mech so big ring about mid cassette is great.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks. I tried with calipers between 10 links (so that the top teeth of the caliper presses against the links). Measuring this way a new AXS chain is 131.9m over 10 pins.
@@kwcmau hi sorry for delay i just back from a weeks leave. Not sure from that exactly how measuring, but do from start of one pin to start of 10th pin - this should be 127mm new (they are a 1/2 inch pitch chain so 12.7mm long per link).
I have used the Park Tool checker, any thoughts?
they have a few. the one with pin is terrible. the drop in (i think its cc3.2) - some are ok, some not - i have seen a lot of variance from tool to tool over the years, i do not think they mfg them to tight enough tolerance, which is very common in chain checkers as every 0.1mm really matters - it is typically 20% of your wear allowance, and they are just not mfg to that tolerance. one cc3.2 might measure wear at under 0.5, another on same chain at 0.75 etc.
Would the lubricant affect the chain measurement. With a hot wax protocol I guess the chain would measure longer as the wax compressed then wore off. So, I’m wondering when to measure, ideally?
If I were to measure just after cleaning in boiling water might not elongation be over indicated.
yes absolutely if you measure a chain chock full of wax post re wax or wax application re lube you will get a false low reading. All one needs to do is check measure before re wax or re lube application, tis that simple and all good.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 so just to be clear - in muddy conditions would I measure after the boiling water rinses?
@@CMneilB sorry delay neil i went off on a weeks leave for school hols - and yes correct - but post boiling water rinse is actually not the best time to do it. If you do it hot - you may get a false high reading as metal is expanded. If you let it cool, the small amount of wax inside will re set and so roller etc wont move like it would naturally, giving a false low reading. Best time is just post normal riding, and before re waxing. Unless all of your riding is mud riding - hopefully there are times you can just check pre re wax. if all is mud riding, pour some boiling water over chain on bike just to wash the main crud out (that can again give a false low reading) - and check measure on bike before removing for proper flush cleaning
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks so much.
So, just to clarify - if it’s just a regular periodic re wax I’ll be measuring the a fairly clean chain with just the residual wax in-situ?
And - if it’s been wet I’d do the boiling water rinse first, then measure?
Just asking, as the above two may give different readings I guess.
Really appreciate all your work in this field.
You’re significantly contributing to a massive reduction in drivetrain component consumption.
I’ll keep spreading the word.
@@CMneilB ah thanks neil for the kind words - we certainly are working hard to improve information in this space! But overall for yours i wouldnt overly worry - regular check measuring is definitely recommended, but it is not needed so regular that you have to worry about differences between if do before waxing after normal riding or doing before waxing after boiling water rinsing. I would just be periodically checking (say monthly is plenty for even very avid cyclists on immersive waxing) and so this should make it easy enough to just do before waxing after your normal riding where it is now time to re wax. You will get consistent wear measuring just doing this, and so not need to worry re if it may be different if do post boiling water flush rinse - which if you wanted to check i would just be measuring before the boiling water flush rinse if you have done sufficient riding on that coating. If you havent done that much riding on that coating and you are flushing and re waxing because it was a wet ride, i just wouldnt worry about trying to check measure and just wait until next re wax where you may have completed your normal amount of kms on that coating.
Isn't that Shimano TL-CN42 supposed to be simply placed on top of chain, and to not use any force? That's what the images on the side are saying, right? Otherwise I can start throwing every single YBN/Shimano chain I buy away as new and unused, because with little force I can make that tool "slot in" on every chain.
Correct, no force really - they are "drop in checkers" - however a very small amount of force to ensure no slack left in section is ok, ie making sure that pins are pulled to their correct position. Sometimes the bit of lube + contamination between pins and inner plate link bore can add a very small amount false low measure, and the rear mech spring tension will not take this out - so we want to ensure the chain is pulled to its proper wear elongation spot. You will see i did not FORCE the tool in as such, it was a very light amount of force used - not like what one has to do to get a tool into new chain / not very worn chain.
Just digging in on chain checkers. I have also come to learn that with the TL-CN42 you cannot use any force or you will end up replacing your chains with very little to zero wear. The reason for this is that the double prong side is a spring and will compress if forced. The purpose of the spring is to secure the checker. Shimano instructions confirm that only gravity should be applied when dropping in the single prong side. Thanks for making us think about this!
great content Adam, but I wish we could return chains for recycling, they are hi quality steel and it seems wrong to see them become low grade steel when normally recycled in a metal scrap bin.
agree, along with cassette I feel like bike companies should have a return program, rather than being a waste
My understanding is that they can go into the recycle bin and will get dealt with from there.
Is it possible to have the same chain mileage on oil based lubes as wax lubes provide?
Not really. Some top options like silca synergetic or rex black diamond etc - if one only rides in good dry road conditions - the contamination level (and thus abrasiveness) will be slow to build up, so they will give excellent chain lifespan with low maintenance. However immersive waxing simply has the unassailable advantages that every re wax effectively re sets contamination in the chain, and for X time after re wax all parts are sliding on a solid coating of super slippery wax leaving chain metal pretty much out of the equation. And also that being a solid lubricant, contamination gathering is lowest possible. The more contamination involved in ones cycling (gravel / mtb / wet riding) - the larger the gap grows between immersive waxing and wet lubricants / drip lubricants.
An automotive comparison would be in one engine the oil is being flush cleaned with fresh oil every 5 ish drives, and has a brilliant oil filter. Another engine has no oil filter and an oil change very infrequently. Engine one will simply have less wear over time - day in day out, the lubricant is simply less abrasive.
A miss conception with waxing is it is time consuming- in fact, there is simply no more efficient and easy way to keep a day in day out super low friction chain. it is slightly more time consuming than never performing any maintenance, but less time consuming than performing the maintenance required to keep most drip lubricants in a similar ballpark re friction and wear to waxing.
look out for todays video - waxed life like a boss - where i will be covering this properly :)
@@zerofrictioncycling992 one day i ll wax my chains as well
@@zerofrictioncycling992 i live in Europe and ride a bike as low as -8*C. will wax work at that temp?
@@VladGoro25 yes indeed the main impact with very low temp is the initial break in can be a lot longer (chain can feel draggy until excess wax pressed out and surfaces polished). So whereas normally thats a 10 min thing, it might be an hour thing if you are breaking wax treatment at very cold temps. Hybrid approach is probably best to minimise that, so wax, then re lube next 5 times with silca ss drip, ufo drip or tru-tension tungsten all weather, then re wax to re set contamination - then you wont have to do that break in very often.
5:37 is this ad for wave roller?
reckon i would have talked about one if it was :)
I just put a new xtr 9 speed cassette and gold Kmc its pretty cold here to ride i haven't lube it yet should lube it straight away or when the weather is decent I can go for a ride.
See videos on waxing chains
first you clean it with a strong degreaser
then you wax it
This is all explained in the first videos
best way is the campagnolo way: 132.6 max over 6 links in multiple places on the chain. Other way fixed gauge 0.075 max NO slotting the tooth into the chain. Been doing that for the past 33 years and have been saving numerous 9 10 11 spd cassettes MTB or Road Shimano, Campagnolo, Garbaruk with shimano, sram, campagnolo and kmc chains.... ;)
alas accurate digital caliper use is not the common experience for many cyclists (or using a ruler). You can get 10 random cyclists to measure a section of chain for wear measure and you will likely get at least 5 different measures. Then asking them to repeat this on mulitple sections etc - it is simply a task too many will not do accurately, or find it too faffy to do regularly and thus put off for too long and get caught out. For those whom the method is fine, then fantastic - but it will never be for the masses, they need a simple go / no go tool that takes them 10 secs to do multiple sections of chain and so do easily and regularly
measure 12 inches of chain starting from the center of a pin. If it's 12 inches and 1/16 then the chain is done. Do what carpenters do and start from the 1 inch mark of the tape measure and read at the 13 inch mark to be accurate.
Ah. I think everyone should instead watch this and then never use an imperial measure again in their life -
th-cam.com/video/hid7EJkwDNk/w-d-xo.html
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Obviously people here in the US are too efn lazy to switch to the metric system and would rather still use fractions too. The metric system is so much easier and is what I use which throws people off here and they look at me like they have no idea what I'm talking about.
Re: digital calipers: I've always disliked the center-to-center measurements as it's too prone to user error. Why aren't the go/nogo recommendations given as RADIUS OF ROLLER + PITCH + RADIUS OF ROLLER or PITCH + DIAMETER.
Bike on ground, bit a pressure on the crank, measure. Then we won't need a dedicated tool for this one specific thing. Or perhaps that's the point.
Aren't the rollers the same size between all the different speeds chains?
Roller sizes can vary, and tolerance to inner plate shoulders, but mostly it is just more faff to explain adding on these bits, vs the very easy 10 x 12.7 - 127mm as new measure, wear replacement is + 0.5% which is (rounded down) 127.5mm for replacement mark.
I dont like centre to centre either, but start of pin to start of pin is relatively easy if one is being diligent.
The reason why a good tool is recommended is because it is very easy, and very easy means it is actually done regularly. WHen it is not very easy it is put off, (remembering we need to measure multiple sections, at least 3) and when it is put off - people get caught out.
I thought 0.75 was the "no-go?"
Maybe it depends on your drivetrain...?
From Park Tool: "Anything at or beyond the 0.75 percent reading means that you should change your chain immediately. If you are using a chain designed for ten or fewer gears, replace your chain as it nears the 0.75 percent mark. If you are using an eleven or twelve speed chain, replace your chain once it has reached 0.5 percent wear. For two-sprocket or single speed bikes, replace your chain as it reaches the 1 percent wear mark."
Honestly that info is just uber, uber, uber dated. 0.75 was ok in the 5 to 8spd days, sort of. Teeth were thicker for the larger internal width chains so they could take a little more abuse, but still 0.75% is not a great place to be.
Really 0.5% should be the absolute MAXIMUM one wants to go to. It is ok to be a little lax on it if your parts are cheap (ie tiagra 10spd), but as parts cost goes up, why have your chain start to eat into your chain ring and cassette teeth to match its increasing length - your chain is your most consumable mechanical part - replace chain erring on early, and enjoy huge cost savings and huge longevity increases in rest of your components. If your components cost a fortune - ie cassettes of many hundreds of $$ and even more for chain rings, replacing when it is even getting in the postcode of 0.5% is a great idea.
Park tool are providing marketing information for a tool that was relevant 2 decades ago. ones tool should only go to 0.5% maximum, and with more updated information. park tool arent forking out for your drivetrain components so they can afford to be out of touch. generally great company and great tools, i really like park tool a lot overall, but not their chain checkers or info in that space
Using "Just a little bit of force to get it in", how much is a little, I mean it's easy enough to force it in even in a new chain so isn't this somewhat open to interpretation? Asking because I bought one on the strength of this video.
Yes thanks steve - i should correct that actually really overall if it is a drop in checker, it should be basically no force, it is just a drop in for that measure to be correct. If you need to use even a small amount of force, then it is not quite at that measure yet.
WIthout getting too in the weeds (sometimes i am in my head and then i try to shorten it but maybe then miss something in the explanation) - depending on the lubricant - some lubricants can get a bit gummed up underneath the roller, and may give a false low reading. So it is ok to use whatever force you like initially to get the tool in to ensure that roller has properly compressed out of the way any lube & grit that may be holding it in position. Then remove drop in end and check again re does it drop in, or catch roller. If it is still catching roller, all sweet.
hope that makes sense
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thank you, that is much clearer.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks for clarifying this one Adam - much appreciated.
No criticism of your vid.....but, those derailleur wheels look ridiculous ......it's like a Rat with a gold tooth.
ha! i thought they looked beautiful, but i am into gold bling on bikes and the kogel gold OSPW kolosses fit the bill! pity i destroyed that mech / cage with a branch in a race :( next vid featuring that bike will be more boring looking. but yes such things looks are to the beholder! :)
Nuts and bolts mate. I appreciate the time, energy and effort you put into your videos but there's too much going on and not enough actual how to or instruction. Need to shorten your explanations up instead of just speaking, work and speak at the same time you probably could cut your videos and least by a third or more. 👍 #meatandpotatoes 👌
Thanks Rider 65, yes i am going to be working on overall presentation re instructions and information - i have been winging it with zilcho prep unfortunately as things are just oh so busy on all fronts - so i have not been executing well, and i need to do better. I dont think concise will ever be me, i do tend to talk / type in a conversational approach - like all channels, i wont suit everyone. I may have the odd short vid, but in general im just not a quick bites guy, most of the channels i personally watch are also longer and detailed (mostly 30 mins to an hour - pick any interesting topic, i am likely subscribed to it - but analysis by PERUN on ukraine war, vehicle tear downs bit by bit on munro live, investigations by coffeezilla etc etc. That aside, i will be trying to improve, thankyou for watching to date and taking time to respectfully provide feedback, much appreciated re trying to help me do better :)
@@zerofrictioncycling992 I thought this video was perfect. Sure you could have reduced the word count or not covered some of the surrounding info but I liked it because it gave some context of why you choose the Shimano checker over other methods and TBH it's that extra context that's so difficult to measure cos different people are coming from different levels of experience and understanding. TBH the only thing I would comment about was the rather strange panning\zooming on the video .. but I found it funny so not complaining. All good 🙂👍
@@DaxPlusPlus ha yeah on some of the vids the panning in was.... not optimal!!!! not sure why the guy kept doing that....