I heard you like lenghty responses, but still, sorry for brick wall coming up. Had to cut it down for character limit. - Getting to only 15 points in Demo bar not only misses out on Thermite Mine but also Blast Shield, one of the best circuit breaker in the game. Just wanted to put this one first. You also don't max this skill, but you want most of the time at least 10 points (with the next threshold being at 14 points, but more on that later). - Hearing you compare Viper to Thermite Mine makes me sad in ways I didn't expect after the explanation from the last video. *sigh* You got the order that RR applies wrong yet again, Viper applies AFTER Thermite Mine Celestial Presence, not before, your order of operation is wrong so your math gets broken entirely, because *copy paste from last video*: -----copy/paste starts here----- Type A: "x Reduced target's Resistance" or "x Reduced target's ___ Resistance": This one does NOT stack, so only highest value applies. It applies last in the process and works additively. Examples: Elemental Storm devo, Agonizing Flames on Demolitionist, Break Morale on Soldier. Type B: "x% Reduced target's Resistance" or "x& Reduced target's ___ Resistance": This one also does NOT stack, only highest value applies. Applies second in the process and works multiplicatively. Examples: Viper devo (added to weapon damage), Hand of Ultos devo, Touch of Chaos (granted skill from Rah'Zin set). Type C: "-x% ___ Resistance": The only type that DOES stack. This one goes first and applies additively. Examples: Thermite Mine, Celestial Presence, Eldricht Fire devo, Wind Devils, Death Sentence. In your example for 100% Fire resistance, Thermite Mine and Celestial Presence apply BEFORE Viper, they do not apply all at once in the same manner. So assuming both skills are softcapped that would give 30% and 25% Elemental RR, respectively, bringing down the example 100% Fire resistance to 45% Fire resistance. Then would Type B reduction apply, Viper for this scenario (and ONLY if you are dealing at least 100% weapon damage on any given skill), to the remaining 45%, so 45% x 0.8 = 36% Fire res. Finally Type A would apply, so let's say you got Elemental Storm devo so 36% Fire res - 32 = 4% Fire resistance. 4% Fire resistance, down from 100%, and only softcap on the RR skills (you should max them). -----copy/paste ends here----- In the example I gave in the previous video I didn't even account for Eldricht Fire devo, so let's break both scenarios here: one that includes all RR sources (including Thermite Mine) and one that do the same, but without Thermite Mine (we'll be assuming 100% Fire resistance for simplicity's sake, but bare in mind no enemy has this amount, not even Celestial bosses): 1. Including Thermite Mine: Type A - Elemental Storm devo (32). Type B - Viper (20%). Type C - Thermite Mine, Celestial Presence, Eldricht Fire devo (78). First comes Type C: 100 - 78 = 22 Then Type B: 22 * (1 - 0.2) = 17.6 (Viper being super useful, 4.4%) Finally, Type A: 17.6 - 32 = -14.4 (yes, it can go negative) 2. 1. NOT Including Thermite Mine: Type A - Elemental Storm devo (32). Type B - Viper (20%). Type C - Celestial Presence, Eldricht Fire devo (48). First comes Type C: 100 - 48 = 52 Then Type B: 52 * (1 - 0.2) = 41.6 (Viper being a bit better now, 10.4%) Finally, Type A: 41.6 - 32 = 9.6 So in the end we have that |-14.4| + |9.6| = 24. You lose on 24% damage for not using Thermite Mine, and also you can see that Viper is useful but not that great, and by no means a replacement for Thermite Mine. That's 24% OVERALL damage for ALL your skills and procs and everything, which also means your life steal would be 24% less effective, one of the primary ways of survival for any gunslinger build (to be clear, not the only one and other builds can work around it, but you have to account for it in order to do that). Also remember Viper only applies if you are dealing at least 100% weapon damage; skills like BWC, Grenado, Canister Bomb and SGoE DON'T apply the reduction from Viper unless you get a modifier that add % weapon damage. And no, NO, Hand of Ultos does NOT stack with Viper! *sigh* And you are not getting Elemental Storm? *double sigh* If you are running with just Celestial Presence, Eldricht Fire and Viper, from a 100% Fire resistance you only get it down to 41.6% Fire resistance, hence why focusing on one type of damage doesn't work for you, but slapping another type of damage doesn't work either cause you are not reducing that type of resistance (or at least in a considerable manner).
Thermite Mine is not the easiest skill to use, I grant you that, but you just need to learn to use it to maximize the damage your Demo can do or just not do enough damage, there is no other way around it. It takes no time to arm and has no cooldown to reposition after you dodge a boss. Being a "mobile character" is no excuse to not use it, you just won't have enough RR without it come Ultimate difficulty and not just end-game content, but even campaign bosses will prove to be too tanky to take down without proper RR for your damage type. If you build properly you actually don't need to use it on regular trash mobs, it's only there for the harder fights (or if you get surrounded by too much mobs). For Fire damage specifically, Thermite Mine also works great to proc the Fissure devotion, but can also proc pretty much every devotion very well. As another Cairn dweller said somewhere I forgot: a boss going down faster also has less time to kill you.
- Your Fire Strike setup has a tons of problems: you are missing on the best node, Brimstone, which you should always max. You don't take Grenado, neither you max Resilience or Summon Guardian of Empyrion. You also miss 1 point Smite and passives for some reason. - Your Righteous Fervor setup for shield is also wasting points on Summon Guardian of Empyrion, Safeguard, Resilience and maxing Vire's Might? That's a ton of points wasted that can easily be removed for Thermite Mine. - Turtle devo has such a low cooldown, don't put it on Resilience that has such a long cooldown (15 secs) for little duration (5 secs), leaving you with a window of 10 secs without Resilience (and Turtle cooldown is barely 8 secs). You want it up as much as you want; either Flame Touched, Vindictive Flame, Divine Mandate or Presence of Virtue is fine (it doesn't matter which one, it changes nothing as they all are permanent buffs). - I'm beginning to understand what why you lack so many points (and why you leave Demo bar so low): you don't max every skill (and your "improv setup" has no gear to be accounted for). In general, there are skills you want to max (like your primary damage skill and your RR), other skills you want at specific thresholds (like Blast Shield at 5, 10, 14 and so on); and finally other skills you just want to leave at 1 point (like Summon Guardian of Empyrion, Vire's Might for mobility, Safeguard if using shield, Resilience). - I asked for a GrimTools link for one of your actual characters where you actually apply the concepts you keep iterating (even though myself and a couple others brought some interesting topics and questions to the table). But yet again, if the response is mostly "this is what I prefer" and "being a defensive oriented player" it only means you missed the point altogether; those are fair points and are ok, but also has nothing to do with the topic at hand, since you could get better offense AND defenses by building properly. This has nothing to do with playstyle or ability in the game, it's not a matter of preference or skill in any way, and I have to address that as you mentioned it being something that "high damage builds do", which I have to believe is in reference to my comment in the previous video, considering I talked there about my prefered playstyle being "high risk, high reward", which you quote here out of context or at least not understanding my initial comment because that's not the case, EVERY build should do so, your choices and preferences as a player are totally separate from that (which was my initial point); first you make your build work, then you adjust to your playstyle. So I'll ask again for a grimtools link of a character you actually played, we don't need a full video playthrough or improv video for that matter, just share a character that made it through the campaign on Ultimate. It can be of any class, cause all masteries have examples of the points stated above in different ways, but we need some concrete data to work on (and again, this has nothing to do with your playstyle or ability in the game; making the right decisions and optimizing skill points is in benefit of that). For clarity's sake, here are some beginner friendly builds (and that means only gear that is guaranteed like farmable MIs and faction gear is used) to further expand the points above (all links refer to either GrimTools or game developers' official forums). RF + Shield by idontwannaknow0 GT Link: www.grimtools.com/calc/wV1L30D2 Forums Guide: forums.crateentertainment.com/t/1-2-0-3-beginners-fire-sword-board-shieldbreaker-first-char-suitable-sr-viable/100292 Mortar Trap + BWC by Dabuwa87 GT Link: www.grimtools.com/calc/a2E7GzlZ Forums Guide: forums.crateentertainment.com/t/1-1-9-4-showcase-ssf-shieldbreaker-mortar-trap-blackwater-cocktail-build-to-start-the-grind/114894 For further reference, you can check the full list of beginner friendly guides for all classes here: forums.crateentertainment.com/t/beginner-build-guides-compendium-for-aom-fg-expansions/106137 If you've read this far, I'm sorry again for such a lenghty response, and it's my final attempt to share some actual criticism in good will because, as I said in the previous comment, I like both your content and delivery on it, but I can't support misinformation when people get served the actual information and they just choose to not actually acknowledge the facts (you applying Viper first in the RR yet again was specially sadge). Everything I've shared doesn't come just from me, it's my experience mixed up with the info of a whole community that have tested and played Grim Dawn for the same reason that I've tried to reach out here in the comments: we just love the game. None of this brick wall of a comment is meant to say you are lacking as a content creator or skill as a player (or a person, for that matter) in any way, shape or form; you just have your facts about the mechanics of the game wrong, and I'm inclined to believe you are a great dude, hence why I took the time to write this in hopes of sharing not just my experience, but people that have played this game even longer than my merely 1.2k hours. It's not about mechanic skill or being a better player, is understanding how the game works to fully enable all the different builds and content the game has to offer. Best regards, and hope you have a great end of the year.
The Thermite Mine part I talked about in the video I thought I cut from the video, since I recorded that before your excellent explanation. That was a editing failure on my part, not a misunderstanding of your explanation, I intended to cover the topic of resistances in a separate video and thought I had axed the relevant portion here. I thought I had mentioned Blast Shield here, but I will re-review the video to ensure the points are made. I may scrap the two videos and re-work them, given my misunderstanding of resistances, and offer a more thorough statement on why, in this specific class, I do not find Thermite Mine or Blast Shield useful enough to justify the point investment.
I heard you like lenghty responses, but still, sorry for brick wall coming up. Had to cut it down for character limit.
- Getting to only 15 points in Demo bar not only misses out on Thermite Mine but also Blast Shield, one of the best circuit breaker in the game. Just wanted to put this one first. You also don't max this skill, but you want most of the time at least 10 points (with the next threshold being at 14 points, but more on that later).
- Hearing you compare Viper to Thermite Mine makes me sad in ways I didn't expect after the explanation from the last video. *sigh* You got the order that RR applies wrong yet again, Viper applies AFTER Thermite Mine Celestial Presence, not before, your order of operation is wrong so your math gets broken entirely, because *copy paste from last video*:
-----copy/paste starts here-----
Type A: "x Reduced target's Resistance" or "x Reduced target's ___ Resistance": This one does NOT stack, so only highest value applies. It applies last in the process and works additively. Examples: Elemental Storm devo, Agonizing Flames on Demolitionist, Break Morale on Soldier.
Type B: "x% Reduced target's Resistance" or "x& Reduced target's ___ Resistance": This one also does NOT stack, only highest value applies. Applies second in the process and works multiplicatively. Examples: Viper devo (added to weapon damage), Hand of Ultos devo, Touch of Chaos (granted skill from Rah'Zin set).
Type C: "-x% ___ Resistance": The only type that DOES stack. This one goes first and applies additively. Examples: Thermite Mine, Celestial Presence, Eldricht Fire devo, Wind Devils, Death Sentence.
In your example for 100% Fire resistance, Thermite Mine and Celestial Presence apply BEFORE Viper, they do not apply all at once in the same manner. So assuming both skills are softcapped that would give 30% and 25% Elemental RR, respectively, bringing down the example 100% Fire resistance to 45% Fire resistance. Then would Type B reduction apply, Viper for this scenario (and ONLY if you are dealing at least 100% weapon damage on any given skill), to the remaining 45%, so 45% x 0.8 = 36% Fire res. Finally Type A would apply, so let's say you got Elemental Storm devo so 36% Fire res - 32 = 4% Fire resistance. 4% Fire resistance, down from 100%, and only softcap on the RR skills (you should max them).
-----copy/paste ends here-----
In the example I gave in the previous video I didn't even account for Eldricht Fire devo, so let's break both scenarios here: one that includes all RR sources (including Thermite Mine) and one that do the same, but without Thermite Mine (we'll be assuming 100% Fire resistance for simplicity's sake, but bare in mind no enemy has this amount, not even Celestial bosses):
1. Including Thermite Mine: Type A - Elemental Storm devo (32). Type B - Viper (20%). Type C - Thermite Mine, Celestial Presence, Eldricht Fire devo (78).
First comes Type C: 100 - 78 = 22
Then Type B: 22 * (1 - 0.2) = 17.6 (Viper being super useful, 4.4%)
Finally, Type A: 17.6 - 32 = -14.4 (yes, it can go negative)
2. 1. NOT Including Thermite Mine: Type A - Elemental Storm devo (32). Type B - Viper (20%). Type C - Celestial Presence, Eldricht Fire devo (48).
First comes Type C: 100 - 48 = 52
Then Type B: 52 * (1 - 0.2) = 41.6 (Viper being a bit better now, 10.4%)
Finally, Type A: 41.6 - 32 = 9.6
So in the end we have that |-14.4| + |9.6| = 24. You lose on 24% damage for not using Thermite Mine, and also you can see that Viper is useful but not that great, and by no means a replacement for Thermite Mine. That's 24% OVERALL damage for ALL your skills and procs and everything, which also means your life steal would be 24% less effective, one of the primary ways of survival for any gunslinger build (to be clear, not the only one and other builds can work around it, but you have to account for it in order to do that). Also remember Viper only applies if you are dealing at least 100% weapon damage; skills like BWC, Grenado, Canister Bomb and SGoE DON'T apply the reduction from Viper unless you get a modifier that add % weapon damage. And no, NO, Hand of Ultos does NOT stack with Viper! *sigh* And you are not getting Elemental Storm? *double sigh* If you are running with just Celestial Presence, Eldricht Fire and Viper, from a 100% Fire resistance you only get it down to 41.6% Fire resistance, hence why focusing on one type of damage doesn't work for you, but slapping another type of damage doesn't work either cause you are not reducing that type of resistance (or at least in a considerable manner).
Thermite Mine is not the easiest skill to use, I grant you that, but you just need to learn to use it to maximize the damage your Demo can do or just not do enough damage, there is no other way around it. It takes no time to arm and has no cooldown to reposition after you dodge a boss. Being a "mobile character" is no excuse to not use it, you just won't have enough RR without it come Ultimate difficulty and not just end-game content, but even campaign bosses will prove to be too tanky to take down without proper RR for your damage type. If you build properly you actually don't need to use it on regular trash mobs, it's only there for the harder fights (or if you get surrounded by too much mobs). For Fire damage specifically, Thermite Mine also works great to proc the Fissure devotion, but can also proc pretty much every devotion very well.
As another Cairn dweller said somewhere I forgot: a boss going down faster also has less time to kill you.
- Your Fire Strike setup has a tons of problems: you are missing on the best node, Brimstone, which you should always max. You don't take Grenado, neither you max Resilience or Summon Guardian of Empyrion. You also miss 1 point Smite and passives for some reason.
- Your Righteous Fervor setup for shield is also wasting points on Summon Guardian of Empyrion, Safeguard, Resilience and maxing Vire's Might? That's a ton of points wasted that can easily be removed for Thermite Mine.
- Turtle devo has such a low cooldown, don't put it on Resilience that has such a long cooldown (15 secs) for little duration (5 secs), leaving you with a window of 10 secs without Resilience (and Turtle cooldown is barely 8 secs). You want it up as much as you want; either Flame Touched, Vindictive Flame, Divine Mandate or Presence of Virtue is fine (it doesn't matter which one, it changes nothing as they all are permanent buffs).
- I'm beginning to understand what why you lack so many points (and why you leave Demo bar so low): you don't max every skill (and your "improv setup" has no gear to be accounted for). In general, there are skills you want to max (like your primary damage skill and your RR), other skills you want at specific thresholds (like Blast Shield at 5, 10, 14 and so on); and finally other skills you just want to leave at 1 point (like Summon Guardian of Empyrion, Vire's Might for mobility, Safeguard if using shield, Resilience).
- I asked for a GrimTools link for one of your actual characters where you actually apply the concepts you keep iterating (even though myself and a couple others brought some interesting topics and questions to the table). But yet again, if the response is mostly "this is what I prefer" and "being a defensive oriented player" it only means you missed the point altogether; those are fair points and are ok, but also has nothing to do with the topic at hand, since you could get better offense AND defenses by building properly.
This has nothing to do with playstyle or ability in the game, it's not a matter of preference or skill in any way, and I have to address that as you mentioned it being something that "high damage builds do", which I have to believe is in reference to my comment in the previous video, considering I talked there about my prefered playstyle being "high risk, high reward", which you quote here out of context or at least not understanding my initial comment because that's not the case, EVERY build should do so, your choices and preferences as a player are totally separate from that (which was my initial point); first you make your build work, then you adjust to your playstyle. So I'll ask again for a grimtools link of a character you actually played, we don't need a full video playthrough or improv video for that matter, just share a character that made it through the campaign on Ultimate. It can be of any class, cause all masteries have examples of the points stated above in different ways, but we need some concrete data to work on (and again, this has nothing to do with your playstyle or ability in the game; making the right decisions and optimizing skill points is in benefit of that).
For clarity's sake, here are some beginner friendly builds (and that means only gear that is guaranteed like farmable MIs and faction gear is used) to further expand the points above (all links refer to either GrimTools or game developers' official forums).
RF + Shield by idontwannaknow0
GT Link: www.grimtools.com/calc/wV1L30D2
Forums Guide: forums.crateentertainment.com/t/1-2-0-3-beginners-fire-sword-board-shieldbreaker-first-char-suitable-sr-viable/100292
Mortar Trap + BWC by Dabuwa87
GT Link: www.grimtools.com/calc/a2E7GzlZ
Forums Guide: forums.crateentertainment.com/t/1-1-9-4-showcase-ssf-shieldbreaker-mortar-trap-blackwater-cocktail-build-to-start-the-grind/114894
For further reference, you can check the full list of beginner friendly guides for all classes here: forums.crateentertainment.com/t/beginner-build-guides-compendium-for-aom-fg-expansions/106137
If you've read this far, I'm sorry again for such a lenghty response, and it's my final attempt to share some actual criticism in good will because, as I said in the previous comment, I like both your content and delivery on it, but I can't support misinformation when people get served the actual information and they just choose to not actually acknowledge the facts (you applying Viper first in the RR yet again was specially sadge). Everything I've shared doesn't come just from me, it's my experience mixed up with the info of a whole community that have tested and played Grim Dawn for the same reason that I've tried to reach out here in the comments: we just love the game. None of this brick wall of a comment is meant to say you are lacking as a content creator or skill as a player (or a person, for that matter) in any way, shape or form; you just have your facts about the mechanics of the game wrong, and I'm inclined to believe you are a great dude, hence why I took the time to write this in hopes of sharing not just my experience, but people that have played this game even longer than my merely 1.2k hours. It's not about mechanic skill or being a better player, is understanding how the game works to fully enable all the different builds and content the game has to offer.
Best regards, and hope you have a great end of the year.
The Thermite Mine part I talked about in the video I thought I cut from the video, since I recorded that before your excellent explanation. That was a editing failure on my part, not a misunderstanding of your explanation, I intended to cover the topic of resistances in a separate video and thought I had axed the relevant portion here. I thought I had mentioned Blast Shield here, but I will re-review the video to ensure the points are made. I may scrap the two videos and re-work them, given my misunderstanding of resistances, and offer a more thorough statement on why, in this specific class, I do not find Thermite Mine or Blast Shield useful enough to justify the point investment.