That sounds like a labiodental glide, or perhaps bilabial. The English W is a labiovelar glide, meaning that the back of the tongue rises while the lips articulate a sound that narrows enough to change the vowel sound but not enough to produce audible friction, and the German W is a labiodental fricative, where the lower lip touches the upper teeth and produces audible friction. A labiodental glide is the same as the German W, but without that audible friction. A bilabial one would be the same but with the lips themselves and no teeth, essentially an English W but without the back of the tongue raising. Spanish B's often lenite into a similar sound that can vary between a true fricative and a glide, depending on speaker and region. Likely, this is a conservative feature of Pennsylvania German, and other dialects of German as well, as that glide is believed to have been an intermediary stage between a W sound more similar to the English and the fricative now standard in German. English is unusually conservative, literally like the only thing in which it is, when it comes to certain consonants like the dental fricatives (both kinds of TH), W, and the WH (for certain people). Lowland Scots, a related Anglic language, is even more conservative (at least when compared to various standard forms of English) by having a tapped R, retaining the velar fricative (CH), and more frequently preserving the WH sound (some in the northeast pronounce it like a F) Or in other words, the English W is actually what is believed to be the older form of the sound, whereas the German W has undergone a specific sound change resulting in what we see today. Notably, it's a sound change that isn't complete, with some dialects not pronouncing the W as much of a fricative as is considered standard. Contact with English could likely help reinforce this behaviour, same as the progressive aspect in PD (ich bin am Mache). Homegrown/retained dialectal feature is strengthened by contact with a language that has an equilevant structure, even if not cognate (meaning not coming from the same ancestral source). In that way, your dialect of Pennsylvania Dutch may have retained an older sound One thing that does come to mind though, is that many people in the comments have noted that PD spoken more in the midwest around like Ohio uses a W more similar to standard German. I wonder if this could have been impacted by immigration of later Germans in the 19 century, who often went to the midwest (and thus to the West proper). They spoke, and we still barely have Texan German and others, something more like standard German, or at least something like the standard at the time. Part of the reason for this was that there were Germans from many different parts of germany, without enough from one specific area (like Bern or the Rhineland) for their dialect to win out, resulting in Standard German being used to communicate. Potentially contact with midwestern Germans could have influenced the pronunciation of W in Pennsylvania German?
Thanks for this video. Your 101 series states that it's like the English W, but I kept hearing a hint of fricative to it in some words you pronounced in that series as well as in the audio component of your textbook. It's like a Netherlands Dutch W. The canonical notation in that language is /ʋ/, but I don't feel that that adequately captures how your teeth actually half-commit, too. Someone really needs to start assigning IPA notation to the Wiktionary entries for PA Dutch so that we've got open-access resources on things like this.
This rings true to my PA Dutch speakers in Lehigh County. And if you want to frustrate one of them, ask them to pronounce in English "Wescoesville" or "Wernersville." Those are tongue twisters!
My grandmother was born in Bowmansville, Lancaster Co, Pa. She spoke only Pa Dutch before going to school. As an adult she lived in Mohnton, near Reading, Pa. She taught me Wie geht’s, with a hochdeutsch w sound.
Very interesting video Doug☺ My Grandfather grew up in a German farming settlement in Southwestern Wisconsin. Grandpa's family immigrated from Prussia. His parents were both born there, immigrated with their parents as children, spoke German at home, English was always broken. As a result, Grandpa spoke mainly German at home until the age of 5, learned his English thoroughly at school. Grandpa always said that the teacher in his one room school was born in Vermont. Some of Grandpa's speech particularities: Quarry rhymed with "car", did not contain an "or" sound. Can was "Ken", not the midwestern Kee-yan that I hear in Ohio, and carry was "Car-ree" in place of "Kerry", so he had picked up some New England pronunciations from his teacher. Wash was always "Warsh", Yes was always "Yah", and Grandpa lapsed into German when irritated. "Ach De Lieber Himmel" was his "What the He#l", and "Yah, Der Schmaltzekopf" if someone was acting thick headed😁 I've used both phrases with Amish guys here in Northeastern Ohio, when at the store, with hearty chuckles and "Yah" in response☺
I'm fairly certain that Homer Schneck pronounced his English "v's" as "w's", too. At least, that's what I remember from the ABE Car Care Center commercials, with Punkin' Miller.
It's not just a PA Dutch issue. I have heard Germans who learned English in school, pronounce "v" as a "w". I think in that case, it depends on who taught them.
So what about those Ws for Vs by PA Dutch speakers like the words Wery and Wisit, I get the V sound for W from German, But my dad, like many other Dutch speakers, used W for V all the time in English. If it were a PA Dutch word, V words would begin with a variation of an F sound. Is there an explanation for the switch to W for English words starting with V.? We used to tease my dad about his W's a lot, but I could never figure out the logic behind it. It was fairly pervasive in his speech, Even my Uncle Wincent didn't escape.
What you call Standard German I call Prussian. Swabians use the English pronunciation of w. There is also a 3rd possibility which you do not mention, which is to say V before e and i and W before a, o, and u. In the vinter, Mr Ventz drinks water and viskey from a wacuum flask.
Gude Doug, well explained. Even in Germany there are dialects, e. g. in the Rheinland, where the W is pronounced like an English W. But most standard German speakers don't pronounce it as hard as you might have been taught. I'd be intrested in the evolution of the PA W (or other letters/words) in America. I mean up to a certain point in time it certainly was the standard german W (or letter/word). Is the evolution depending on the English influence on the Pfälzisch dialect in different areas at that time?. Have you got something like dialect maps that show how which words are pronounced where? Cheers Holger
Machs gut Bruder! Make as much mistakes as possible in the language[Sprak][ from speak] that's the only way you will learn it. Break speak make cake Brechen sprechen machen kuchen What in eng is k is ch in deutsch bye bye
GOod explanation!
That sounds like a labiodental glide, or perhaps bilabial. The English W is a labiovelar glide, meaning that the back of the tongue rises while the lips articulate a sound that narrows enough to change the vowel sound but not enough to produce audible friction, and the German W is a labiodental fricative, where the lower lip touches the upper teeth and produces audible friction.
A labiodental glide is the same as the German W, but without that audible friction. A bilabial one would be the same but with the lips themselves and no teeth, essentially an English W but without the back of the tongue raising. Spanish B's often lenite into a similar sound that can vary between a true fricative and a glide, depending on speaker and region.
Likely, this is a conservative feature of Pennsylvania German, and other dialects of German as well, as that glide is believed to have been an intermediary stage between a W sound more similar to the English and the fricative now standard in German.
English is unusually conservative, literally like the only thing in which it is, when it comes to certain consonants like the dental fricatives (both kinds of TH), W, and the WH (for certain people).
Lowland Scots, a related Anglic language, is even more conservative (at least when compared to various standard forms of English) by having a tapped R, retaining the velar fricative (CH), and more frequently preserving the WH sound (some in the northeast pronounce it like a F)
Or in other words, the English W is actually what is believed to be the older form of the sound, whereas the German W has undergone a specific sound change resulting in what we see today.
Notably, it's a sound change that isn't complete, with some dialects not pronouncing the W as much of a fricative as is considered standard.
Contact with English could likely help reinforce this behaviour, same as the progressive aspect in PD (ich bin am Mache). Homegrown/retained dialectal feature is strengthened by contact with a language that has an equilevant structure, even if not cognate (meaning not coming from the same ancestral source).
In that way, your dialect of Pennsylvania Dutch may have retained an older sound
One thing that does come to mind though, is that many people in the comments have noted that PD spoken more in the midwest around like Ohio uses a W more similar to standard German. I wonder if this could have been impacted by immigration of later Germans in the 19 century, who often went to the midwest (and thus to the West proper). They spoke, and we still barely have Texan German and others, something more like standard German, or at least something like the standard at the time. Part of the reason for this was that there were Germans from many different parts of germany, without enough from one specific area (like Bern or the Rhineland) for their dialect to win out, resulting in Standard German being used to communicate.
Potentially contact with midwestern Germans could have influenced the pronunciation of W in Pennsylvania German?
Thanks for this video. Your 101 series states that it's like the English W, but I kept hearing a hint of fricative to it in some words you pronounced in that series as well as in the audio component of your textbook. It's like a Netherlands Dutch W. The canonical notation in that language is /ʋ/, but I don't feel that that adequately captures how your teeth actually half-commit, too.
Someone really needs to start assigning IPA notation to the Wiktionary entries for PA Dutch so that we've got open-access resources on things like this.
This rings true to my PA Dutch speakers in Lehigh County. And if you want to frustrate one of them, ask them to pronounce in English "Wescoesville" or "Wernersville." Those are tongue twisters!
Ha ha ha, so true!
My grandfather had a heck of a time with Weaversville in Northampton County 😅
Thanks Doug!
My grandmother was born in Bowmansville, Lancaster Co, Pa. She spoke only Pa Dutch before going to school. As an adult she lived in Mohnton, near Reading, Pa. She taught me Wie geht’s, with a hochdeutsch w sound.
My grandfather couldn’t pronounce Hawaii 😅
Cool Lockhaven University jumper!
Repping my alma mater!
Danke Douglas!
Very interesting video Doug☺ My Grandfather grew up in a German farming settlement in Southwestern Wisconsin. Grandpa's family immigrated from Prussia. His parents were both born there, immigrated with their parents as children, spoke German at home, English was always broken. As a result, Grandpa spoke mainly German at home until the age of 5, learned his English thoroughly at school. Grandpa always said that the teacher in his one room school was born in Vermont. Some of Grandpa's speech particularities: Quarry rhymed with "car", did not contain an "or" sound. Can was "Ken", not the midwestern Kee-yan that I hear in Ohio, and carry was "Car-ree" in place of "Kerry", so he had picked up some New England pronunciations from his teacher. Wash was always "Warsh", Yes was always "Yah", and Grandpa lapsed into German when irritated. "Ach De Lieber Himmel" was his "What the He#l", and "Yah, Der Schmaltzekopf" if someone was acting thick headed😁 I've used both phrases with Amish guys here in Northeastern Ohio, when at the store, with hearty chuckles and "Yah" in response☺
I'm fairly certain that Homer Schneck pronounced his English "v's" as "w's", too. At least, that's what I remember from the ABE Car Care Center commercials, with Punkin' Miller.
Homer would reply " vay yes, you dumb bunny!"
If you don't know it's German, Verkaafe has an... interesting sound to it lol
it's a moot point. black coffee on;ly. my whole family except wife do black!
It's not just a PA Dutch issue. I have heard Germans who learned English in school, pronounce "v" as a "w". I think in that case, it depends on who taught them.
Here in Ohio the Amish/Ex Amish pronounce the W with a hard V sound as in Standard German.
Wery good! Vestern Deitsch is Different from Nittany Walliy. Vee liked it! Let’s wisit abot it.
Haha
So what about those Ws for Vs by PA Dutch speakers like the words Wery and Wisit, I get the V sound for W from German, But my dad, like many other Dutch speakers, used W for V all the time in English. If it were a PA Dutch word, V words would begin with a variation of an F sound. Is there an explanation for the switch to W for English words starting with V.? We used to tease my dad about his W's a lot, but I could never figure out the logic behind it. It was fairly pervasive in his speech, Even my Uncle Wincent didn't escape.
Des hoscht gut verkaaft👍
What you call Standard German I call Prussian. Swabians use the English pronunciation of w. There is also a 3rd possibility which you do not mention, which is to say V before e and i and W before a, o, and u. In the vinter, Mr Ventz drinks water and viskey from a wacuum flask.
Berks county, Pa you digging out from the epic snow storm? Lets go sledding!!
Walter wollte wirklich Wasser. Was wirklich verwirrung erzeugte.
Wossah
Eard
Faiar
Luft die elemente in austrian
Gude Doug,
well explained. Even in Germany there are dialects, e. g. in the Rheinland, where the W is pronounced like an English W. But most standard German speakers don't pronounce it as hard as you might have been taught.
I'd be intrested in the evolution of the PA W (or other letters/words) in America. I mean up to a certain point in time it certainly was the standard german W (or letter/word). Is the evolution depending on the English influence on the Pfälzisch dialect in different areas at that time?.
Have you got something like dialect maps that show how which words are pronounced where?
Cheers
Holger
So, are BOTH "V" & "F" pronounced the same?
Yep
I said Welschhaahne to my Amish neighbor, he said what does that mean? He said we just call them turkeys.
What you said means foreign chicken hahaha
Welsh chicken
Foreign
Wallet ball spiela? Order volley ball spiela? Es macht nix Aus tsu mich
Machs gut Bruder! Make as much mistakes as possible in the language[Sprak][ from speak] that's the only way you will learn it.
Break speak make cake
Brechen sprechen machen kuchen
What in eng is k is ch in deutsch bye bye
The Pa dutch has its own dialect and dutchy accent then say in Ohio!
Dun, dun, dun....oh no, it's the dreaded "W", lol.
Stimmt, wie ein englischer "V". Und net wie ein deutscher "V", das man wie englischer "F" ausspricht.