What gets me is how terribly _X-Men: The Last Stand_ handled the Phoenix character's story, then when we/they manage to get a second chance to tell the story better... they hire the same writer as the previous film 🙄
Matthew Vaughn was one of the co-writers on The Last Stand and directed/wrote X-Men: First Class. Writers do not have more control on a project than a director. 🙄
The studio butchered A LOT of the original movie, dude. I mean they changed Skrulls as main villain just because Disney wanted to use it as Captain Marvel's villain, they changed the third arc from space battle to train battle: they literally changed everything.
The reason why X3: Last Stand failed so badly was due to the fact that this project was given to a director who didn't know what the hell he was doing and ruined an almost perfect trilogy.
Yes, but the major reason is that in the first movies, Avi Arad was working only as executive producer, which was reason why they worked But for TLS, he decided to step in as the main producer, thus gaining more control Arad is known for carrying more about making movies as toy commercials That's why the story was so shallow overloaded with characters Same thing lead to the failure of TASM series and Venomverse, because of Avi Arad's very existence
soon as I heard that one of them was dead set on forcing Dark Phoenix into the story of the third movie it instantly made sense why that movie was all over the place, they should have waited but he was way too eager to jump the gun.
@@genius179 brett ratner is almost equally known for MUSIC VIDEOS. THATS the problem lol. Can’t believe the studio trusted that dude with the 3rd film lol
I find it quite remarkable that Fox managed to epically *FAIL* at not only the Phoenix concept (twice) but also utterly disrespected Apocalypse AND the Fantastic 4, all in consecutive fashion smh *YIKES* 🥴😩😫
@@patrickiamonfire965 Yeah but they TRIED. If they were focused on telling the best possible stories, they would have at least *read the comics* and maintained some sense of continuity/coherence across the movies. But they were too busy doing Lord Knows What to actually FOCUS, so they lost money AND got no reputation boost. Serves them right, IMHO
@patrickiamonfire965 And let's not even talk about WB/DCs attempt to "chase Disney-Marvel" and "fast track" their DCEU, remember that debacle? MoS, BvS, and then suddenly, Justice League. Like WTF. No wonder they had a revolving door of execs announcing film projects, getting their bonuses, and bailing out ASAP.
The major problems with the movie: - We hadn’t had enough time with Sophie’s Jean or anyone else for that matter besides Professor X, Beast, Magneto, and Jennifer Lawrence to care about Jean becoming the Phoenix. - They didn’t fully commit to a faithful comic adaptation, so the cosmic elements like the aliens and Phoenix force felt out of place compared to the gritty street level conflict of the rest of the movie. - Jean didn’t have much character besides ‘I’m super powerful, but I can’t control myself, and I’m mad at Charles for lying to me’. - The villains were very bland and forgettable. The Hellfire Club would have been a much better selection.
- The movie is a Phoenix origin story and most superhero franchise start with an origin story. 🙄 Even in the comics, readers didn't care about Jean until she became Phoenix. - Jean was a deeply trouble people who was traumatized by causing the accident that killed her mother. Her entire in the movie was learning to overcome that.
Hans Zimmer said that he didn't wanna work on superheroes again, but he made an exception with this movie because he liked the concept and Simon Kinberg's approach Even with everything going south because of Disney, he did his part and to perfection His score alone made this movie worth watching, at least for me
Honestly at this point I hope Disney stays away from telling the Phoenix/Dark Phoenix Saga. There are plenty of other Xmen centric “Endgame” stories that feature avengers Fantastic 4 etc… like Onslaught
Curse of the Dark Phoenix, amazing comic book and animated series runs, but any time it goes to live action it's trash. Probably because they keep trying to make a SAGA into one sub-plot in one movie.
The thing about Dark Phoenix is that it was a HUGE arc. You’d need to give it the kind of attention that Marvel gave Thanos during the first three phases…
@@grahamstrouse1165 It was only a huge arc if you combine it with The Phoenix Saga. Dark Phoenix was less than 10 issues. Split the whole thing across two films and it'd be fine.
I think the other thing is that we don’t know who Jean is in either version outside of her romance to Scott (and Wolverine) and being Xavier’s top pupil. And the Pheonix force is often seen as either a corruptive force or a powerful side of Jean. But nothing establishes what type of character Jean is. The answer should include the phrase “Sanctimonious Bully”. That she martyrs herself constantly by doing the right thing to get the praise from others. That she always believes that she’s doing the right thing, even if it crosses breaches of trust. In the pre-giant sized stuff, she literally kept secret that Xavier was faking his death to work on some tech uninterrupted. During the Phoenix saga, she keeps it secret that Corsair, Cyclops’ dad is alive. In Dark Phoenix the comic, she rewrites Kitty’s Dad’s mind to get him to enrol her in the institute and she says “it’s okay, Scott. The professor and I do this all the time”. Heck, cut to the Claremont revolution in 2000 and it’s heavily implied that she kept the secret that Xavier had trafficked a girl from the Hindu Kush, Sage, and was training her to be a spy in the Hellfire club.
Did you even watch the video? Because you're really misinformed. This movie is suppose to be the first film of a two-parter. Also, it was the main plot in Dark Phoenix, not a subplot. Did you commented before watching the video.
This movie was so bad, my dad actually called me after seeing it with my stepbrother (who was a little kid at the time) and told me do not waste money on a ticket. Because of that, I still have never seen this movie lol
You clearly didn't read the Dark Phoenix SAGA. Because it wasn't a single story and Last Stand was not a better adaptation (even Chris Claremont said so). I bet you don't even know who Chris Claremont is. 😆
@@agentofchaos7456 He was just joking you fucking weirdo, stop reading your comics 2s and touch some grass maybe. With your cringe 😆😆😆, you think someone care about what you're saying ?
I really wish they just stuck with first class formula and stop the weird time jumps, the older settings was really cool and seeing how the X-Men further fitted into the world would of been awesome!
It was so strange and so limiting? Why crash yourself right up to the time of the PStew-Ian McKellan movies for no reason, when you could have made so many movies with your stacked, lauded and well liked new cast? James McAvoy did not age two and half decades between those films so why imply that he should have?
One mistake Fox made twice is not understanding the point of the Phoenix Saga. They have made two movies about the corruption of power. In both the comics and the 90s cartoon Jean uses the power of the Phoenix to save the world and she's corrupted not by the power, but by the villains who want to control that power through her. In the end, Jean sees she cannot longer keep the power under control and sacrifices herself. As the watcher points it, it doesn't seem like it but it's one of the X-Men greatest victories, since their point, that people with powers can take control of them and live safely among humans, is proved by the one who got the ultimate power.
You didn't watch the video before posting? It literally mentions that the movie was suppose to be the first of a two-parter. This was movie is meant to be an adaptation of the Hellfire Club arc.
People shouldn't blame Zak Penn and Simon Kinberg for the failure of The Last Stand The movie failed because Avi Arad told them to stuff as many characters as they could so he could sell as many toys as possible
yes yes we can everything they said they tried to to was the wrong approach you can jam tons of npc in a background without effecting story. The fact he did it twice is a problem. renameing the skrulls would work if the rest of the script worked. Skrulls shouldnt have even been in the movie to begin with it should of been the shiar. None of this would have been a problem you cant have grounded superheroes in space with aliens and space battles and cosmic god like beings your ether all in or all out. As soon as simon pitched grounded movie in realty fox should of passed or told him the phoneix story is off limits. Which it should of been to begin with.
@@ejc2064 The grounded tone also worked, the action sequences didn't have to be as bombastic and frenetic as the MCU's The train battle was the perfect example. Because of this grounded approach, the movie was allowed to have more practical effects, and so was able to look more convincing than anything from the MCU done recently
Many people assumed it was the finale of the X-Men series and judge it on that merit though. However, it is obviously not a finale and the series is still going. So some of its criticisms are misinformed and poorly aged.
Even beyond the struggle of doing Dark Phoenix Saga yet AGAIN, the whole alien threat in Act III felt so out of place. Like yes the X-Men have faced alien threats in the past. But you need to establish this stuff in-universe before you jump straight to Jessica Chastain's extraterrestrial exposition dumps. The stuff on the train was at least semi-cool.
A "grounded" alien invasion movie centered around a cosmic entity taking over a human mutant, going crazy, and destroying the planet... What a great idea!
After years of thinking of the phrase "making it more real" i came to a personal answer about it... i think most of those that say this mistake "feeling real" to "depict direct reality". To me i feel a story is real isnt if all the clothes and objects depicted are exact copies of what we use, but when whatever the characters do or live is "real" to them. If an director thinks that the problem is just a question of costumes, to me... it means he doesnt respect the story. "Hyperreality" is something I belive in, when you take aspects of life and enhance and transform them, you still can see the "parallel", but such things don't exist and we still love them, if an artist gets taken by the fear of shame in the "hyperreality" they are trying to create... well, I think they already failed. Not saying all movies need "hyperreality" at maximum (and there are many more things needed for a good story), I think that "First Class" and "DOFP" to me encapsulate perfectly the level of "hyperreality" I think such movies need, another example that lives dearly in my heart is "Speed Race" the live action movie... this one is special to me.
You hit the nail on the head. Movie producers love the idea of making franchises "more realistic" because they're embarrassed by the source material. They don't respect the lore and visual style of comic books.
People absolutely do not know that characters are owned by different studios. Hell, even actors are not totally sure what they are signing up for, just look at some of the Madame Webb stuff.
i certainly struggle to keep track much of the time, i mean these days i just assume a property is owned by Disney, when it isn't, first i'm shocked, then i assume its probably Paramount or something
Matt Smith asked Karen Gillian if he should do marvel movie and she encouraged him to (since she plays nebula in the MCU), which is why he accepted the role in Morbius, unaware of the difference between Sony Marvel and Disney Marvel
The movie before this one showed the team wearing the 90s cartoon suits and they don't wear those here. Also this movie didn't have a Quicksilver slow mo scene
Simon Kinberg might not be a good writer But you can bet that he's a great producer It was because of him that we got "First Class", "Deadpool" and "Logan" And not to mention "The Martian" too
Xmen had good starting points but then their finales fall flat. X1 x2, future past and first class were all great but then you got x3, Apocalypse, and phoenix.
I’m not a fan of this movie but we could’ve had two different versions of Skrulls invading in the 90s. This could’ve been mined for more stories later like “the x-men universe is so close to the MCU, theres events that are happening in both worlds that are leading up to an incursion where they overlap : Secret Wars / The Avengers vs Xmen
Independently of Fox's competence with the franchise... can you imagine, as a creative, having the ideas, funds and opportunity to adapt a beloved piece of media, but then a megacorporation telling you you can't use half of the elements when you're halfway through your work? that must have been devastating and the reason why I will never work with licenced media... not even as doujin.
I can't help but feel like the casting played a part in it's failure too, a lot of people hated Sophie Turner after Game of Thrones because Sansa Stark was such an unlikeable character, even when she was supposed to be likeable. Hollywood made a mistake casting her.
People seem to forget the fact that the story was forced to change due to Disney buying Fox. They wanted to promote Captain Marvel so the movie, which was originally intended 2 parts was shrunk to 1 movie with a lot of changes and reshoots.. lol
I think it got trashed by the media as terrible, but it’s a 6/10 movie. Yes, Dark Sansa is the definition of ‘meh’ as Jean Grey and no Famke, and yes they fucked up the Dark Phoenix storyline again, and yes Jennifer Lawrence is a shite Mystique - but other than that it’s fine. The reshoots were fine. What is going on with Sansa’s hair though, is it meant to be 90s hair? Darling I think you could do with a makeover
X-Men Origins Wolverine is the true worst X-Men film and because of stupid executives at Fox, they made Deadpool unrecognizable and had no mouth all because they thought Deadpool wouldn’t really work. But the Deadpool movies proved them wrong. And these are the same executives who made the last minute decision to have annoying voices in Walking with Dinosaurs 3D.
If they wanted to bring in aliens, why not the Shi'ar? They did indeed want Jean's head for destroying a solar system when she absorbed its' sun. Why do they feel like it'd be better if it were completely different?
@@agentofchaos7456 I'm typing about the Skrulls being used and replaced with generic alien species #5 instead of just using the Shi'ar. The Hellfire Club is made up of mutants. They didn't even *need* aliens for that part of the story.
@@agentofchaos7456 I was only wondering why they thought that they *needed* The Skrulls when I felt that the Shi'ar would've been just fine as the antagonists instead. Not as the villains, but as a race of beings who wanted to contain the Phoenix Force aka Jean Grey. This would put them at odds with the X-Men since they wouldn't want her taken to an alien world to be imprisoned. Especially when she hadn't done anything except get unwillingly possessed by it! Skrulls are more Fantastic 4 villains anyway. It was stupid for Fox to use them in the first place. I can only think of a single story where the X-Men dealt with a Skrull, and it wasn't during "The Phoenix Saga"! In fact, they had no idea one was involved until after he was killed while he was impersonating Wolverine.
I count inserting Skrulls into a story that didn't need them as a replacement for X-Men villains who are already established, as fucking up the adaptation. If you *need* aliens in an X-men movie, the Shi'ar are right there in the books, and even featured in the Dark Phoenix saga. I must assume you only skimmed the video, as my comment was about how the director of this movie wrote the first failed attempt at bringing this story to the screen. @@agentofchaos7456
My biggest problem is that Sophie Turner had no business playing the Phoenix. She’s a fine actress but has all the range of a teaspoon. Watching her wave her hands around like a drunken street performer with the facial expressions of a constipated mime was just painful to watch.
Did you watch the whole video? Because the only major difference between the movie and the comic is that they replaced the Hellfire Club with the aliens as the villains, and that is because the filmmakers weren't allow to use them. It says this in the video. Seriously, it sounds like you posted the comment before watching the whole thing.
LMAO Did you not watch the video before commenting? Because the only major difference the comic and the movie is that they changed the villains from the Hellfire Club to those aliens. 😂 lol Stop parroting what you see online. Social media is bad for your critical thinking skills.
@@agentofchaos7456 Look dude I’m not parroting what I see online, I was just saying that the 90s show did a better dark Phoenix sage adaptation than the movie. Is that wrong?
@@zeldagameryt4018 The movie is an adaptation of Jean/Phoenix's origin story, not the whole Dark Phoenix Saga. It was suppose to be the first film of a Dark Phoenix Saga/Inferno trilogy (as mentioned in the video). So that comparison doesn't really work. It is silly to expect a saga to be told in a single film.
It's underappreciated and highly underrated. In my opinion. I had no expectations. I've become smarter than that. My favorite part is when Mystique says some feminist dog shit and gets promtly killed 10 minutes later.
Hey now... I think The New Mutants was actually a pretty good movie - I really enjoyed it! But with it being released during the whole studio flux meant that it didn't get much of a marketing push as it should've, and it got released more like an afterthought than anything else. 😢
Honestly, it did a lot right… except for Sunspot and Dr Reyes. Frankly, I breathed a sigh of relief when I realised that this wouldn’t be the same Rahne whose character had fallen off multiple cliffs over the decades. Elixir doesn’t need to have an amber alert out on her.
Age of Apocalypse is massively underrated. Plot hole at the end where Magneto is just forgiven for killing millions-billions of people aside, that movie ruled
I think it would be silly as shit to reboot the whole franchise when Hugh Jackman, Evan Peters, and co are all beloved not just by the fandom, but by the creatives and Kevin Feige himself. I think we shouldn't bet on a full reboot just yet. I think we might end up seeing the FOX Universe merged with the MCU similar to the end of Hickman's Secret Wars when remnants of the Ultimate Universe and others universes merged with the mainline universe. I think this would also be smarter in a way, as that way you can keep those beloved original actors in the mix and continue to build that world out with new mutants not just serving to fill in the rest of the periphery but literally take on a legacy role within the mutant world, like Laura taking over as Wolverine and new mutants taking over the X-Men team's ranks. It would also give some of these same actors better chances to realise the potential of their characters, like James Marsden as Cyclops and Kelsey Grammer as Beast for example.
The Dark Phoenix Saga is so long that it can only be done justice as a mini-series or over the span of at least 3 films. You can’t have it done in one film… and you can’t have it done unless you have Cyclops and Jean Grey front and centre.
I'm not sure why they went from Skrulls to "M'Bari" for aliens. The Shi'ar empire was deep in the whole phoenix saga, and set up one of the best x-men battles in the comics. This sounds like people who didn't know much about the comics facing terrible timing when Disney made them reshoot the film to support Captain Marvel. Well, I guess studio politics have killed better films for less reason.
Yes but because it was released direct to streaming during a time when theaters were coughing for profit, it barely counts. It’s like if HBOMAX counted Batgirl.
I can't believe ANYONE would be in favor of skrull enemies over Emma Frost. I do wonder what is going on with the obsession with the Phoenix Saga. It isn't that interesting compared to stories now, back in the 90s sure, but now with Xmen 97 having come out, it's clear that focusing on only one of the Xmen in an arc is a very risky idea.
Aside from Deadpool & Wolverine The X-Men won't be better in the MCU Like most of the characters that became dumber and flanderized, especially Hulk and Thor The X-Men will suffer the same at the hands of Disney Honestly, they're better at Fox's, because at least they were treated with more dignity, a lot more than what they'll from Disney
@@gamemaster2192 no you're lying you're just saying that mess because you just can't stand x-men being in the mcu well you don't have to watch it you hater
@@marlonclark-pp9wg how am im a hater? I just saying because disney is known for ruin things, look what happen to star wars and pixar and any MCU movie after endgame.
@@gamemaster2192 i can understand how Star Wars is ruined i haven't seen any Pixar film lately aside from toy story 4 which i liked as for films after endgame i liked spider-man no way home i liked doctor strange in the multiverse of madness i liked Antman 3 but i have to agree Disney has ruined some great films but they're not all that bad i liked Star Wars the force awakens but i don't like the two sequels after it though
This film has many, many problems but the most glaring one to me is that Sophie Turner is not a good actress. She was passable as early Sansa because the character requires minimal acting but even then you could tell she wasn't a natural actress. I don't blame her for trying to ride the GoT hype and get film roles but having her as Grey, one of the main X-Men coupled with her terrible American accent killed this film on arrival.
The Last Stand is interesting. I really enjoyed the cure storyline, but the Phoenix storyline was the one mishandled. Two big stories from the comics should never be mashed into a single movie. They should’ve done it in 3 parts. The first being the cure storyline and the other two having the phoenix. However, both storylines can make up to 3 movies each
For me, the main reason I barely even remember this movie was because it felt quite small and ordinary for the big-deal story they were telling. I've never read the comics but, I'm aware that Apocalypse alone was supposed to be a big deal. And so was the Phoenix stuff, so having those 2 in a single movie should've felt so grand instead of feeling like just another ordinary episode in the middle of an important arc.
Man it’s SO annoying that the original film which sounds awesome, was ruined by those high above who clearly STILL no NOTHING about what their audiences want and care for.
The problem with the Dark Phoenix movies is that you can’t squeeze damn near 10 comic issues of storytelling into a 2 hour movie. Yes, you can tell a good story within that but it won’t be as effective, impactful, or feel like a payoff because everything is rushed to where we’re not too invested in the characters. They would’ve been better off doing a Part 1 and 2 or even 3 with this storyline so the characters would have more room to grow and breathe.
My friend has footage of me, beligerantly drunk at the theater, shaking the huge cardboard advertisment for this movie, yelling "They should have made Inferno!!!" To which I still stand by that. Fox could have had their own "Universe" with making Inferno, but they screwed the pooch, big time. They already had the New Mutants movie, then, Illyana could have been causing the chaos, and they could have been in the Xmen movie. Then... THEN, at the end of the movie, when asking what to do with the new mutants, Cable and Domino from Deadpool 2 could step in and take them. After which, we could have gotten an ACTUAL Xforce movie.
I did a fan edit Dark Phoenix last year and took me almost two years to redo and no joke every person I have shown it to loves and has stated why was the movie not like this when I saw it in theaters.
@@agentofchaos7456 My point is that IF you REALLY wanted to do the Dark Pheonix right then you would introduce the Shi'ar empire as they are integral to the Pheonix story, not just as an appearance but as a full ally/opposing force to the X-Men. It practically writes itself without effort AND if full in the X-Men mythos.
@@rdstovall They did. And then the proposal for Disney's buyout of 20th Fox came. Because of that, the sequel / 2-part idea was killed and limited to tell the whole story in one movie.
"Too referential to First Class" So they wanted the sequel to not reference the original film at all? That's like if Marvel just got rid of Loki because it'd be too referential to Thor 1, what were the executives smoking?
its definitely not worse than Apocalypse. the only 2 parts i thought were any good in Apocalypse are the Wolverine scene. and seeing Cyclops in his whole suit at the end of the movie.
I think one of the major issues with the film was their choice of casting. Sophie Turner is a good actor, but her role as Jean Grey was so awkward that it didn't do any favors to expand on the emotions of the film. Watching her, it felt like she was acting. Not that she WAS Jean Grey, but that she was just an actor playing AS jean Grey.
Such wasted potential. I still have those comics that cover the Dark Phoenix storyline and I was severely disappointed in this movie, like many of the X-Men movies Fox released.
I think Sophie Turner is a lovely person, really like her as a person but I just don't feel like she's found her feet in acting. I don't think dramatic works for her, I'd love to see her in lighter, more comedic projects, I just have this feeling it would really suit her.
This movie actually has much more in common with 'Captain Marvel' than shape-shifting aliens. Both movies center on female protagonists whose alien super-powers make them stronger and stronger throughout the movie. Both women have missing memories, and they both have would-be male mentors who know more about their pasts than they let on. And of course they're both set in the 1990s. Even if 'Captain Marvel' ranks lower among the MCU films, it easily stomps 'Dark Phoenix' in almost every way.
oh hey, i really liked Famke Janssen as Jean Grey in The Last Stand (is she the most beautiful Bond girl ever?) - it's not like there's a coherent storyline in the comic books . . . but the new take is just shallow and the poor actor had a really stiff and unsympathetic script - who'd be an actor?
My biggest problem with this movie is that it is so so soooooooo incredibly boring and forgettable. Last Stand, Apocalypse, and Wolverine Origins may be dumpster fires, but at least they're ENTERTAINING dumpster fires. The whole time I watched Dark Phoenix, I just kept thinking "Oh my GOD I don't care."
Unpopular opinion: I found Simon Kinberg's direction pretty solid He was able to give the movie an identity of its own, rather than trying to replicate Bryan Singer's direction Unlike Brett Ratner tried to do in The Last Stand
@@agentofchaos7456 And yet, they still fucked it up. Adapting a story doesnt mean it's gonna be good just because they used "most" of the same story beats
I honestly didn’t hate it, some great moments (basically every magneto scene) it wasn’t perfect, the ending was pretty weak and cyclops didn’t really do anything. Disney will eventually do the Phoenix story and I hope it will be better overall but this film still has its bright spots
For better or for worse, I'll always prefer the X-Men movies over the MCU Even the bad ones have something else to offer, something better than the MCU
I don’t know if this is actually POSSIBLE, But I would like to see a DIRECTORS CUT OF THIS MOVIE!!! Because the original script Genuinely sounds like a WAY BETTER VERSION.
What I like the most about the X-Men movies is the fact that they never tried to follow the MCU's formula or its tropes, especially after it became a trend They never relied on nostalgia, the tone always kept consistent, and they always focused on the present And Dark Phoenix kept that way They kept their sense of individuality. Even the score was different in each movie
But sadly, mcu is going to eat every fucking thing: deadpool, xmen, spiderverse, venom (Although I did hear venom won't go into mcu now, not sure) Mcu gave us a great many films, the best version yet of whole interconnected universe thing, but I hate them for absorbing all the other marvel comics based universes into mcu
@@rajK29_ the tone especially, thats what i loved about going to the cinemas in the 2010s that the Fox universe, however flawed, always had a distinct tone and feel to it. never tried imitating mcu even when dc did
While I watched the movie at the theater, I kept asking myself: "WHY DIDN'T THEY GAVE US THE SHI-AR INSTEAD OF THIS GENERIC ALIEN RACE? WHY?!". And now, realizing they aimed for the Skrulls, made me notice how the writers and directors were idiots. The Shi'Ar were X-Men property, weren't they?
True story - as I was watching this movie in theaters, it got to the “emotional” scene with Raven and as the character was dying - I noticed how quiet the theater was… then I started thinking about Avengers: Endgame and how you could hear people hold back tears… and then I started laughing at how funny it was that literally no one cared at all about this film at all. I tried to hold back but only made it worse - I must’ve looked crazy but it was just too funny to me.
Biggest problem? Cyclops and Jean Grey were so poorly cast there was no overcoming that. Compare that to the perfect casting of Professor X and Magneto in First Class.
As long as that third act stands where we see most the characters use their abilities to full extent... This cannot be the worse movie. The final act's fight scene is just too good. Magneto with the barrage of gun fire. Storm. Nightcrawler?! Everything outside of the final act fight scene... Is disgusting.
@@primefamous Directors have much more creative control on a film than a co-writer (Matthew Vaughn and Zak Penn were also part of the writing team). That is why directors get most of the credit when a film works or doesn't work. I assumed you had basic knowledge about the film industry, and that you just under the misconception that Simon Kinberg was the director. But I guess I gave you too much credit. =/
@@agentofchaos7456 I actually work in the film industry as a PA so I know how it works quite well. You need to stop assuming. Now my comment specifically refers to Simon Kinberg who served as a writer (along with Zak Penn, NOT Matthew Vaughn, he did First Class which is great) for this film AND writer/director in DP. My issue is that he wrote the story twice and failed. Stop trying to make this be bigger than what it is but I get the feeling that's too much to ask with someone like you =/
@@primefamous Matthew Vaugh himself has stated several times that he co-wrote the script with Simon Kinberg and Zak Penn. He just didn't get credited on it as a writer; probably because he didn't want the credit. Vaughn was actually going to direct the movie, but the studio decided to rush the production right before filming began. That was one of the reasons why he dropped out as director, the studio didn't give him enough to make the movie he wanted to make. See? I'm clearly more informed on the subject than you are.
The problem was that Fox Studios didn't read comics, nor did they even watch their own previous movies. It was bizarre. I hope Kevin Feige does better.
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What gets me is how terribly _X-Men: The Last Stand_ handled the Phoenix character's story, then when we/they manage to get a second chance to tell the story better... they hire the same writer as the previous film 🙄
C'mon! The Dark pheonix was always super famous for standing behind other bad guys and doing nothing... right?
Matthew Vaughn was one of the co-writers on The Last Stand and directed/wrote X-Men: First Class. Writers do not have more control on a project than a director. 🙄
Also, it sounds like you didn't watch the video before commenting. 🤣
Kinberg wrote Star Wars Rebels
The studio butchered A LOT of the original movie, dude. I mean they changed Skrulls as main villain just because Disney wanted to use it as Captain Marvel's villain, they changed the third arc from space battle to train battle: they literally changed everything.
The reason why X3: Last Stand failed so badly was due to the fact that this project was given to a director who didn't know what the hell he was doing and ruined an almost perfect trilogy.
Yes, but the major reason is that in the first movies, Avi Arad was working only as executive producer, which was reason why they worked
But for TLS, he decided to step in as the main producer, thus gaining more control
Arad is known for carrying more about making movies as toy commercials
That's why the story was so shallow overloaded with characters
Same thing lead to the failure of TASM series and Venomverse, because of Avi Arad's very existence
Yeah Brett Ratner was more known for buddy cop movies like Rush Hour. Red Dragon was solid by him, but I agree.
soon as I heard that one of them was dead set on forcing Dark Phoenix into the story of the third movie it instantly made sense why that movie was all over the place, they should have waited but he was way too eager to jump the gun.
Eh, he may not have helped but he didn't write the thing.
@@genius179 brett ratner is almost equally known for MUSIC VIDEOS. THATS the problem lol. Can’t believe the studio trusted that dude with the 3rd film lol
I find it quite remarkable that Fox managed to epically *FAIL* at not only the Phoenix concept (twice) but also utterly disrespected Apocalypse AND the Fantastic 4, all in consecutive fashion smh *YIKES* 🥴😩😫
Fox Studio people didn't care about the source material, only about money 😒
@@ChineduOparathey didn’t profit nor did they get a reputation boost.
@@patrickiamonfire965 Yeah but they TRIED. If they were focused on telling the best possible stories, they would have at least *read the comics* and maintained some sense of continuity/coherence across the movies. But they were too busy doing Lord Knows What to actually FOCUS, so they lost money AND got no reputation boost. Serves them right, IMHO
@@ChineduOpara that’s big studios for you. They always want a easy cash and not pay their employees properly.
@patrickiamonfire965 And let's not even talk about WB/DCs attempt to "chase Disney-Marvel" and "fast track" their DCEU, remember that debacle? MoS, BvS, and then suddenly, Justice League. Like WTF. No wonder they had a revolving door of execs announcing film projects, getting their bonuses, and bailing out ASAP.
The major problems with the movie:
- We hadn’t had enough time with Sophie’s Jean or anyone else for that matter besides Professor X, Beast, Magneto, and Jennifer Lawrence to care about Jean becoming the Phoenix.
- They didn’t fully commit to a faithful comic adaptation, so the cosmic elements like the aliens and Phoenix force felt out of place compared to the gritty street level conflict of the rest of the movie.
- Jean didn’t have much character besides ‘I’m super powerful, but I can’t control myself, and I’m mad at Charles for lying to me’.
- The villains were very bland and forgettable. The Hellfire Club would have been a much better selection.
- The movie is a Phoenix origin story and most superhero franchise start with an origin story. 🙄 Even in the comics, readers didn't care about Jean until she became Phoenix.
- Jean was a deeply trouble people who was traumatized by causing the accident that killed her mother. Her entire in the movie was learning to overcome that.
@@agentofchaos7456 stop defending this pile of dumpster fire that is this movie. It's sad.
@@primefamous Nothing sad about having critical thinking skills. ;)
@@agentofchaos7456 critical thinking haha good one 🤣
@@primefamous Still think Matthew Vaughn wasn't a writer on X3? ;D
This movie did not deserve how hard Hans Zimmer goes on the score.
Hans Zimmer said that he didn't wanna work on superheroes again, but he made an exception with this movie because he liked the concept and Simon Kinberg's approach
Even with everything going south because of Disney, he did his part and to perfection
His score alone made this movie worth watching, at least for me
@@Zombiesnyder13 I listen to Gap at least once a day.
Well, at least Hans delivered an amazing soundtrack for this otherwise terrible film.
Same thing with the Fant4stic movie. Marco Beltrami and Philip Glass killed that score
@@Zombiesnyder13I think this would have been decent if Marvel and Fox didn't interfered
Dark Phoenix has fed so many mouths on youtube
As any catastrophic failure should 😊
Look at Madame Web!!! That movie will pay bills for reviewers for the next 2 months as it goes to streaming.
😂
I guess there is that
Honestly at this point I hope Disney stays away from telling the Phoenix/Dark Phoenix Saga. There are plenty of other Xmen centric “Endgame” stories that feature avengers Fantastic 4 etc… like Onslaught
Curse of the Dark Phoenix, amazing comic book and animated series runs, but any time it goes to live action it's trash. Probably because they keep trying to make a SAGA into one sub-plot in one movie.
I just don't get how they can't figure that out
The thing about Dark Phoenix is that it was a HUGE arc. You’d need to give it the kind of attention that Marvel gave Thanos during the first three phases…
@@grahamstrouse1165 It was only a huge arc if you combine it with The Phoenix Saga. Dark Phoenix was less than 10 issues. Split the whole thing across two films and it'd be fine.
I think the other thing is that we don’t know who Jean is in either version outside of her romance to Scott (and Wolverine) and being Xavier’s top pupil.
And the Pheonix force is often seen as either a corruptive force or a powerful side of Jean.
But nothing establishes what type of character Jean is.
The answer should include the phrase “Sanctimonious Bully”. That she martyrs herself constantly by doing the right thing to get the praise from others.
That she always believes that she’s doing the right thing, even if it crosses breaches of trust.
In the pre-giant sized stuff, she literally kept secret that Xavier was faking his death to work on some tech uninterrupted.
During the Phoenix saga, she keeps it secret that Corsair, Cyclops’ dad is alive.
In Dark Phoenix the comic, she rewrites Kitty’s Dad’s mind to get him to enrol her in the institute and she says “it’s okay, Scott. The professor and I do this all the time”.
Heck, cut to the Claremont revolution in 2000 and it’s heavily implied that she kept the secret that Xavier had trafficked a girl from the Hindu Kush, Sage, and was training her to be a spy in the Hellfire club.
Did you even watch the video? Because you're really misinformed. This movie is suppose to be the first film of a two-parter. Also, it was the main plot in Dark Phoenix, not a subplot. Did you commented before watching the video.
I cannot believe this came out in 2019, it feels like ages ago.
Covid.
This movie was so bad, my dad actually called me after seeing it with my stepbrother (who was a little kid at the time) and told me do not waste money on a ticket. Because of that, I still have never seen this movie lol
@@Lawrence_Talbot If you like stories about mental illness/trauma it is worth watching.
Is it a bad movie? Yes, but is it really the worst X-Men movie of all time? Yes.
😂😂😂😂 yes
X-Men Origins: Wolverine might be worse, but it's definitely a two horse race.
The Last Stand is worse
Brett Ratner was doing only what he was paid to do, nothing more
Last stand is dope as fuck @@Zombiesnyder13
Idk, you see new mutants?
Its crazy they made a movie that made X-men The Last Stand seem like a great take on the Dark Phoenix story in comparison
You clearly didn't read the Dark Phoenix SAGA. Because it wasn't a single story and Last Stand was not a better adaptation (even Chris Claremont said so). I bet you don't even know who Chris Claremont is. 😆
Also, did you not watch the video before commenting? Because even it admits that it is more faithful to the comics than Last Stand. 😆
@@agentofchaos7456 He was just joking you fucking weirdo, stop reading your comics 2s and touch some grass maybe. With your cringe 😆😆😆, you think someone care about what you're saying ?
@@agentofchaos7456 neeeeeeeeerd!
@@Vivi_9 Better to be a real nerd than a pretender like @PricefieldPunk and many others. 😆
I really wish they just stuck with first class formula and stop the weird time jumps, the older settings was really cool and seeing how the X-Men further fitted into the world would of been awesome!
It was so strange and so limiting? Why crash yourself right up to the time of the PStew-Ian McKellan movies for no reason, when you could have made so many movies with your stacked, lauded and well liked new cast? James McAvoy did not age two and half decades between those films so why imply that he should have?
One mistake Fox made twice is not understanding the point of the Phoenix Saga.
They have made two movies about the corruption of power.
In both the comics and the 90s cartoon Jean uses the power of the Phoenix to save the world and she's corrupted not by the power, but by the villains who want to control that power through her. In the end, Jean sees she cannot longer keep the power under control and sacrifices herself.
As the watcher points it, it doesn't seem like it but it's one of the X-Men greatest victories, since their point, that people with powers can take control of them and live safely among humans, is proved by the one who got the ultimate power.
You didn't watch the video before posting? It literally mentions that the movie was suppose to be the first of a two-parter. This was movie is meant to be an adaptation of the Hellfire Club arc.
The X-Men run at Fox should have ended with "Logan". Even before Dark Phoenix's spectacular failure, Logan was obviously the perfect ending.
New Mutants came out after Dark Phoenix.
For sure
Also, did you not hear about Deadpool & Wolverine?
New mutants was good th9
You're misinformed. Deadpool & Wolverine is credited as a 20th Century co-production. So its run never ended.
People shouldn't blame Zak Penn and Simon Kinberg for the failure of The Last Stand
The movie failed because Avi Arad told them to stuff as many characters as they could so he could sell as many toys as possible
yes yes we can everything they said they tried to to was the wrong approach you can jam tons of npc in a background without effecting story. The fact he did it twice is a problem. renameing the skrulls would work if the rest of the script worked. Skrulls shouldnt have even been in the movie to begin with it should of been the shiar. None of this would have been a problem you cant have grounded superheroes in space with aliens and space battles and cosmic god like beings your ether all in or all out. As soon as simon pitched grounded movie in realty fox should of passed or told him the phoneix story is off limits. Which it should of been to begin with.
@@ejc2064
The grounded tone also worked, the action sequences didn't have to be as bombastic and frenetic as the MCU's
The train battle was the perfect example. Because of this grounded approach, the movie was allowed to have more practical effects, and so was able to look more convincing than anything from the MCU done recently
@@RayMcElroy50true the train sequence is pretty great
reminds me a bit of the failure of spiderman 3, oversaturation, too much going on
@notthegreatestdetective and also Avi Arad giving himself more control over the film.
The X-Men movies have a long history of hit or miss movies
this was a hard miss
Many people assumed it was the finale of the X-Men series and judge it on that merit though. However, it is obviously not a finale and the series is still going. So some of its criticisms are misinformed and poorly aged.
@@agentofchaos7456 where's the evidence to back up such a claim? Is another xmen movie coming out based on these characters and timeline?
@@MyZ001 Yes. It's called "Deadpool & Wolverine".
Even beyond the struggle of doing Dark Phoenix Saga yet AGAIN, the whole alien threat in Act III felt so out of place. Like yes the X-Men have faced alien threats in the past. But you need to establish this stuff in-universe before you jump straight to Jessica Chastain's extraterrestrial exposition dumps.
The stuff on the train was at least semi-cool.
Amazing after the success of Guardians of the Galaxy how Fox was still scared of being too “comic booky”
A "grounded" alien invasion movie centered around a cosmic entity taking over a human mutant, going crazy, and destroying the planet...
What a great idea!
After years of thinking of the phrase "making it more real" i came to a personal answer about it... i think most of those that say this mistake "feeling real" to "depict direct reality".
To me i feel a story is real isnt if all the clothes and objects depicted are exact copies of what we use, but when whatever the characters do or live is "real" to them.
If an director thinks that the problem is just a question of costumes, to me... it means he doesnt respect the story.
"Hyperreality" is something I belive in, when you take aspects of life and enhance and transform them, you still can see the "parallel", but such things don't exist and we still love them, if an artist gets taken by the fear of shame in the "hyperreality" they are trying to create... well, I think they already failed.
Not saying all movies need "hyperreality" at maximum (and there are many more things needed for a good story), I think that "First Class" and "DOFP" to me encapsulate perfectly the level of "hyperreality" I think such movies need, another example that lives dearly in my heart is "Speed Race" the live action movie... this one is special to me.
You hit the nail on the head. Movie producers love the idea of making franchises "more realistic" because they're embarrassed by the source material. They don't respect the lore and visual style of comic books.
People absolutely do not know that characters are owned by different studios. Hell, even actors are not totally sure what they are signing up for, just look at some of the Madame Webb stuff.
Do some of the actors think they're part of the MCU or something?
@@Chardan001Yup, the main actress for Madam Web thought it was gonna be connected to a wider universe
i certainly struggle to keep track much of the time, i mean these days i just assume a property is owned by Disney, when it isn't, first i'm shocked, then i assume its probably Paramount or something
Matt Smith asked Karen Gillian if he should do marvel movie and she encouraged him to (since she plays nebula in the MCU), which is why he accepted the role in Morbius, unaware of the difference between Sony Marvel and Disney Marvel
@@rorylynch7775 I recall he said superhero movie.
They failed soo, soo badly on this one
The movie before this one showed the team wearing the 90s cartoon suits and they don't wear those here. Also this movie didn't have a Quicksilver slow mo scene
Simon Kinberg might not be a good writer
But you can bet that he's a great producer
It was because of him that we got "First Class", "Deadpool" and "Logan"
And not to mention "The Martian" too
Xmen had good starting points but then their finales fall flat. X1 x2, future past and first class were all great but then you got x3, Apocalypse, and phoenix.
opposite for Wolverine, started bad, ended great
I was so disappointed to find out Ivan Ooze replaced Apocalypse as the main antagonist.
I’m not a fan of this movie but we could’ve had two different versions of Skrulls invading in the 90s. This could’ve been mined for more stories later like “the x-men universe is so close to the MCU, theres events that are happening in both worlds that are leading up to an incursion where they overlap : Secret Wars / The Avengers vs Xmen
Independently of Fox's competence with the franchise... can you imagine, as a creative, having the ideas, funds and opportunity to adapt a beloved piece of media, but then a megacorporation telling you you can't use half of the elements when you're halfway through your work?
that must have been devastating and the reason why I will never work with licenced media... not even as doujin.
Dang, not even doujin?
I can't help but feel like the casting played a part in it's failure too, a lot of people hated Sophie Turner after Game of Thrones because Sansa Stark was such an unlikeable character, even when she was supposed to be likeable. Hollywood made a mistake casting her.
In addition, I mean no disrespect but Sophie Turner is not a good actress, so having her as the main protagonist of the movie was not a good idea.
Of course a man said this!!
@@twiggycosmicyob stay mad that she sucks. Tons of great actresses, she’s not one of them
@@TheMMAKasual name your top 4 favorite
@@twiggycosmicyob Jodie Foster, Kaitlin Olson, Kathy bates Uma thurman.
@@twiggycosmicyob of course a woman would make an ironically sexist remark about an objective statement because it was made by a man
They should have made the movie an adaption of Mutant Massacre instead of Dark Phoenix.
People seem to forget the fact that the story was forced to change due to Disney buying Fox. They wanted to promote Captain Marvel so the movie, which was originally intended 2 parts was shrunk to 1 movie with a lot of changes and reshoots.. lol
Accepting a rational, legitimate, and factual reason is WAY less fun than to freak out and point fingers at everything else.
I still haven't even since this movie. The animated series raised my expectations way too much.
They replaced the Hellfire Club with aliens as the villains. Other than that, it has the same basic narrative structure as the Hellfire Club arc.
I think it got trashed by the media as terrible, but it’s a 6/10 movie. Yes, Dark Sansa is the definition of ‘meh’ as Jean Grey and no Famke, and yes they fucked up the Dark Phoenix storyline again, and yes Jennifer Lawrence is a shite Mystique - but other than that it’s fine. The reshoots were fine. What is going on with Sansa’s hair though, is it meant to be 90s hair? Darling I think you could do with a makeover
those videos always end so abrupt, its paced like its getting started but then it just ends
It's really amazing how these guys wanted the movie to be grounded, but still insisted on aliens because the Hellfire Club was too low-key.
The filmmakers wanted to be grounded and use the Hellfire Club. The studio wanted to use the Skrulls.
@@agentofchaos7456 In this case I would've sided with the filmmakers. 12 films feels way too late in the game to suddenly drop in a bunch of aliens.
X-Men Origins Wolverine is the true worst X-Men film and because of stupid executives at Fox, they made Deadpool unrecognizable and had no mouth all because they thought Deadpool wouldn’t really work. But the Deadpool movies proved them wrong. And these are the same executives who made the last minute decision to have annoying voices in Walking with Dinosaurs 3D.
you're so right
the worst thing to happen to this movie WAS captain marvel😂
If they wanted to bring in aliens, why not the Shi'ar? They did indeed want Jean's head for destroying a solar system when she absorbed its' sun. Why do they feel like it'd be better if it were completely different?
Because the movie was an adaptation of the Hellfire Club arc, not the Shi'ar arc. This is mentioned in the video.
@@agentofchaos7456 I'm typing about the Skrulls being used and replaced with generic alien species #5 instead of just using the Shi'ar. The Hellfire Club is made up of mutants. They didn't even *need* aliens for that part of the story.
@@Monkey_Boy9602 The Shi'Ar are not actually villains though and at that point it was too late to make major changes like that.
@@agentofchaos7456 I was only wondering why they thought that they *needed* The Skrulls when I felt that the Shi'ar would've been just fine as the antagonists instead. Not as the villains, but as a race of beings who wanted to contain the Phoenix Force aka Jean Grey. This would put them at odds with the X-Men since they wouldn't want her taken to an alien world to be imprisoned. Especially when she hadn't done anything except get unwillingly possessed by it!
Skrulls are more Fantastic 4 villains anyway. It was stupid for Fox to use them in the first place. I can only think of a single story where the X-Men dealt with a Skrull, and it wasn't during "The Phoenix Saga"! In fact, they had no idea one was involved until after he was killed while he was impersonating Wolverine.
Dark Phoenix > Origins, Last Stand, and even sometimes Apocalypse depending on my mood
I blame Sophie Turner's inability to act, the writing, and Fox overall
Imagine getting to adapt one of the best X-Men stories to film TWICE, and fucking up both times.
Did you not watch the video before commenting? Because all they did was change the villains from the Hellfire Club to aliens.
I count inserting Skrulls into a story that didn't need them as a replacement for X-Men villains who are already established, as fucking up the adaptation.
If you *need* aliens in an X-men movie, the Shi'ar are right there in the books, and even featured in the Dark Phoenix saga.
I must assume you only skimmed the video, as my comment was about how the director of this movie wrote the first failed attempt at bringing this story to the screen.
@@agentofchaos7456
My biggest problem is that Sophie Turner had no business playing the Phoenix. She’s a fine actress but has all the range of a teaspoon.
Watching her wave her hands around like a drunken street performer with the facial expressions of a constipated mime was just painful to watch.
This movie had the misfortune of following in the wake of Avengers Endgame which at that time set the bar into the stratosphere.
Crazy how they messed up dark phoenix TWICE. Didn’t know that they hired the same writer for the last stand so that makes sense.
Did you watch the whole video? Because the only major difference between the movie and the comic is that they replaced the Hellfire Club with the aliens as the villains, and that is because the filmmakers weren't allow to use them. It says this in the video. Seriously, it sounds like you posted the comment before watching the whole thing.
@agentofchaos7456 The only major difference between the movie and the comic is the comic is actually good. This movie is shit
It’s a sad moment when the freaking animated series from the 90s did a better Dark Phoenix story than a literal 2019 feature film
LMAO Did you not watch the video before commenting? Because the only major difference the comic and the movie is that they changed the villains from the Hellfire Club to those aliens. 😂 lol Stop parroting what you see online. Social media is bad for your critical thinking skills.
@@agentofchaos7456 Look dude I’m not parroting what I see online, I was just saying that the 90s show did a better dark Phoenix sage adaptation than the movie. Is that wrong?
@@zeldagameryt4018 The movie is an adaptation of Jean/Phoenix's origin story, not the whole Dark Phoenix Saga. It was suppose to be the first film of a Dark Phoenix Saga/Inferno trilogy (as mentioned in the video). So that comparison doesn't really work.
It is silly to expect a saga to be told in a single film.
It's underappreciated and highly underrated.
In my opinion.
I had no expectations. I've become smarter than that.
My favorite part is when Mystique says some feminist dog shit and gets promtly killed 10 minutes later.
Hey now... I think The New Mutants was actually a pretty good movie - I really enjoyed it! But with it being released during the whole studio flux meant that it didn't get much of a marketing push as it should've, and it got released more like an afterthought than anything else. 😢
Honestly, it did a lot right… except for Sunspot and Dr Reyes.
Frankly, I breathed a sigh of relief when I realised that this wouldn’t be the same Rahne whose character had fallen off multiple cliffs over the decades.
Elixir doesn’t need to have an amber alert out on her.
I actually liked it, and think it was better than the last 2 X-men movies
@@MyZ001 Hell yeah, it was!
Age of Apocalypse is massively underrated. Plot hole at the end where Magneto is just forgiven for killing millions-billions of people aside, that movie ruled
Good timing with the Deadpool trailer dropped
I think it would be silly as shit to reboot the whole franchise when Hugh Jackman, Evan Peters, and co are all beloved not just by the fandom, but by the creatives and Kevin Feige himself. I think we shouldn't bet on a full reboot just yet. I think we might end up seeing the FOX Universe merged with the MCU similar to the end of Hickman's Secret Wars when remnants of the Ultimate Universe and others universes merged with the mainline universe. I think this would also be smarter in a way, as that way you can keep those beloved original actors in the mix and continue to build that world out with new mutants not just serving to fill in the rest of the periphery but literally take on a legacy role within the mutant world, like Laura taking over as Wolverine and new mutants taking over the X-Men team's ranks. It would also give some of these same actors better chances to realise the potential of their characters, like James Marsden as Cyclops and Kelsey Grammer as Beast for example.
The Dark Phoenix Saga is so long that it can only be done justice as a mini-series or over the span of at least 3 films. You can’t have it done in one film… and you can’t have it done unless you have Cyclops and Jean Grey front and centre.
You didn't watch the video? Because it literally points out that this was suppose to be a two-parter/trilogy.
I'm not sure why they went from Skrulls to "M'Bari" for aliens. The Shi'ar empire was deep in the whole phoenix saga, and set up one of the best x-men battles in the comics. This sounds like people who didn't know much about the comics facing terrible timing when Disney made them reshoot the film to support Captain Marvel. Well, I guess studio politics have killed better films for less reason.
Wait wait wait wait wait, hold on just a minute. Wasn't New Mutants technically the last Fox X-Men movie?
Nobody remembers that one
Yes but because it was released direct to streaming during a time when theaters were coughing for profit, it barely counts. It’s like if HBOMAX counted Batgirl.
I remember watching that one, and it is a C- movie by default.
Yes
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lpI remember
I can't believe ANYONE would be in favor of skrull enemies over Emma Frost. I do wonder what is going on with the obsession with the Phoenix Saga. It isn't that interesting compared to stories now, back in the 90s sure, but now with Xmen 97 having come out, it's clear that focusing on only one of the Xmen in an arc is a very risky idea.
Aside from Deadpool & Wolverine
The X-Men won't be better in the MCU
Like most of the characters that became dumber and flanderized, especially Hulk and Thor
The X-Men will suffer the same at the hands of Disney
Honestly, they're better at Fox's, because at least they were treated with more dignity, a lot more than what they'll from Disney
no you're wrong
@@marlonclark-pp9wg hes not because the new X-men movie doesn't look good
@@gamemaster2192 no you're lying you're just saying that mess because you just can't stand x-men being in the mcu well you don't have to watch it you hater
@@marlonclark-pp9wg how am im a hater? I just saying because disney is known for ruin things, look what happen to star wars and pixar and any MCU movie after endgame.
@@gamemaster2192 i can understand how Star Wars is ruined i haven't seen any Pixar film lately aside from toy story 4 which i liked as for films after endgame i liked spider-man no way home i liked doctor strange in the multiverse of madness i liked Antman 3 but i have to agree Disney has ruined some great films but they're not all that bad i liked Star Wars the force awakens but i don't like the two sequels after it though
Wow we really did a bad job with the Pheonix story.
Let's rehire the people who did X3, you know the only people on the planet we shouldnt.
X3 had a different director. Also, Matthew Vaugh co-wrote X3 and he co-wrote/directed X-Men: First Class.
This film has many, many problems but the most glaring one to me is that Sophie Turner is not a good actress. She was passable as early Sansa because the character requires minimal acting but even then you could tell she wasn't a natural actress. I don't blame her for trying to ride the GoT hype and get film roles but having her as Grey, one of the main X-Men coupled with her terrible American accent killed this film on arrival.
The Last Stand is interesting. I really enjoyed the cure storyline, but the Phoenix storyline was the one mishandled. Two big stories from the comics should never be mashed into a single movie. They should’ve done it in 3 parts. The first being the cure storyline and the other two having the phoenix. However, both storylines can make up to 3 movies each
I fall asleep in the cinema watching this film.
When the pyramids were being destroyed I woke up.
For me, the main reason I barely even remember this movie was because it felt quite small and ordinary for the big-deal story they were telling. I've never read the comics but, I'm aware that Apocalypse alone was supposed to be a big deal. And so was the Phoenix stuff, so having those 2 in a single movie should've felt so grand instead of feeling like just another ordinary episode in the middle of an important arc.
The Hellfire Club arc in the comic was like that.
I wish they used Beast better love Nicholas Hoult
Man it’s SO annoying that the original film which sounds awesome, was ruined by those high above who clearly STILL no NOTHING about what their audiences want and care for.
The problem with the Dark Phoenix movies is that you can’t squeeze damn near 10 comic issues of storytelling into a 2 hour movie. Yes, you can tell a good story within that but it won’t be as effective, impactful, or feel like a payoff because everything is rushed to where we’re not too invested in the characters. They would’ve been better off doing a Part 1 and 2 or even 3 with this storyline so the characters would have more room to grow and breathe.
Amen
My friend has footage of me, beligerantly drunk at the theater, shaking the huge cardboard advertisment for this movie, yelling "They should have made Inferno!!!"
To which I still stand by that. Fox could have had their own "Universe" with making Inferno, but they screwed the pooch, big time. They already had the New Mutants movie, then, Illyana could have been causing the chaos, and they could have been in the Xmen movie. Then... THEN, at the end of the movie, when asking what to do with the new mutants, Cable and Domino from Deadpool 2 could step in and take them. After which, we could have gotten an ACTUAL Xforce movie.
"let's hope the MCU's version of X-Men will be better"
Errrr, Doctor Strange MoM would like to have a word with you....
kind of sad how all the circumstances collided into ruining what was a really cool concept with a lot of talent behind it
Skrulls, it is always those darned Skrulls ruining live action Marvel adapations
I did a fan edit Dark Phoenix last year and took me almost two years to redo and no joke every person I have shown it to loves and has stated why was the movie not like this when I saw it in theaters.
Fox had no business using the Skrulls to begin with when the Shi'ar were RIGHT THERE! All the failures were on Fox for this one.
The Skrulls appeared in the Dark Phoenix Saga.
@@agentofchaos7456 My point is that IF you REALLY wanted to do the Dark Pheonix right then you would introduce the Shi'ar empire as they are integral to the Pheonix story, not just as an appearance but as a full ally/opposing force to the X-Men. It practically writes itself without effort AND if full in the X-Men mythos.
@@rdstovall That was the plan for the sequel.
@@agentofchaos7456 they should have planned for the moment.
@@rdstovall They did. And then the proposal for Disney's buyout of 20th Fox came. Because of that, the sequel / 2-part idea was killed and limited to tell the whole story in one movie.
"Too referential to First Class"
So they wanted the sequel to not reference the original film at all? That's like if Marvel just got rid of Loki because it'd be too referential to Thor 1, what were the executives smoking?
its definitely not worse than Apocalypse. the only 2 parts i thought were any good in Apocalypse are the Wolverine scene. and seeing Cyclops in his whole suit at the end of the movie.
I think one of the major issues with the film was their choice of casting. Sophie Turner is a good actor, but her role as Jean Grey was so awkward that it didn't do any favors to expand on the emotions of the film. Watching her, it felt like she was acting. Not that she WAS Jean Grey, but that she was just an actor playing AS jean Grey.
Such wasted potential. I still have those comics that cover the Dark Phoenix storyline and I was severely disappointed in this movie, like many of the X-Men movies Fox released.
Because they replaced the Hellfire Club?
Leave it to Disney to do shady shit.
I think Sophie Turner is a lovely person, really like her as a person but I just don't feel like she's found her feet in acting. I don't think dramatic works for her, I'd love to see her in lighter, more comedic projects, I just have this feeling it would really suit her.
This movie actually has much more in common with 'Captain Marvel' than shape-shifting aliens. Both movies center on female protagonists whose alien super-powers make them stronger and stronger throughout the movie. Both women have missing memories, and they both have would-be male mentors who know more about their pasts than they let on. And of course they're both set in the 1990s. Even if 'Captain Marvel' ranks lower among the MCU films, it easily stomps 'Dark Phoenix' in almost every way.
oh hey, i really liked Famke Janssen as Jean Grey in The Last Stand (is she the most beautiful Bond girl ever?) - it's not like there's a coherent storyline in the comic books . . . but the new take is just shallow and the poor actor had a really stiff and unsympathetic script - who'd be an actor?
The Last Stand's Phoenix story was less developed than the new take. Not to mention it was also pretty ableist.
Studio executives: “Studio meddling never ruined a film right?”
“Right?”
“Right?!?!?”
This is not the worst X-men movie.
My biggest problem with this movie is that it is so so soooooooo incredibly boring and forgettable. Last Stand, Apocalypse, and Wolverine Origins may be dumpster fires, but at least they're ENTERTAINING dumpster fires. The whole time I watched Dark Phoenix, I just kept thinking "Oh my GOD I don't care."
Unpopular opinion:
I found Simon Kinberg's direction pretty solid
He was able to give the movie an identity of its own, rather than trying to replicate Bryan Singer's direction
Unlike Brett Ratner tried to do in The Last Stand
It suffered from a severe lack of Wolverine
The one that derailed the franchise!🙄
Days of future past was my favourite x men film. Old charles's quote to young charles stayed with me for years.
So they destroyed this film so they could concentrate on captain Marvel LOL, that was a Choice
This movie has LOUD critics. It belies the truth. This movie is entertaining if you're a fan of the actors and characters of First Class.
Everytime they try to do dark Phoenix they fuck it up 😂😂😂😂😂
Did you not watch the video? Because all the movie did was changed the villains from the Hellfire Club to aliens.
@@agentofchaos7456 And yet, they still fucked it up. Adapting a story doesnt mean it's gonna be good just because they used "most" of the same story beats
I honestly didn’t hate it, some great moments (basically every magneto scene) it wasn’t perfect, the ending was pretty weak and cyclops didn’t really do anything.
Disney will eventually do the Phoenix story and I hope it will be better overall but this film still has its bright spots
For better or for worse, I'll always prefer the X-Men movies over the MCU
Even the bad ones have something else to offer, something better than the MCU
no
I don’t know if this is actually POSSIBLE, But I would like to see a DIRECTORS CUT OF THIS MOVIE!!! Because the original script Genuinely sounds like a WAY BETTER VERSION.
What I like the most about the X-Men movies is the fact that they never tried to follow the MCU's formula or its tropes, especially after it became a trend
They never relied on nostalgia, the tone always kept consistent, and they always focused on the present
And Dark Phoenix kept that way
They kept their sense of individuality. Even the score was different in each movie
But sadly, mcu is going to eat every fucking thing: deadpool, xmen, spiderverse, venom (Although I did hear venom won't go into mcu now, not sure)
Mcu gave us a great many films, the best version yet of whole interconnected universe thing, but I hate them for absorbing all the other marvel comics based universes into mcu
But it was a horrible film so 😢
Bet you didn't said that after watching Deadpool 3 xD@@rajK29_
@@rajK29_ the tone especially, thats what i loved about going to the cinemas in the 2010s that the Fox universe, however flawed, always had a distinct tone and feel to it. never tried imitating mcu even when dc did
And it was a sloppy mess because of it, like an even messier multiverse saga
The only good thing about this film was Mystique dying.
Dark Phoenix isn't good but its far from the worst X-Men movie. Last Stand and Origins Wolverine exist.
While I watched the movie at the theater, I kept asking myself: "WHY DIDN'T THEY GAVE US THE SHI-AR INSTEAD OF THIS GENERIC ALIEN RACE? WHY?!".
And now, realizing they aimed for the Skrulls, made me notice how the writers and directors were idiots.
The Shi'Ar were X-Men property, weren't they?
True story - as I was watching this movie in theaters, it got to the “emotional” scene with Raven and as the character was dying - I noticed how quiet the theater was… then I started thinking about Avengers: Endgame and how you could hear people hold back tears… and then I started laughing at how funny it was that literally no one cared at all about this film at all. I tried to hold back but only made it worse - I must’ve looked crazy but it was just too funny to me.
Biggest problem? Cyclops and Jean Grey were so poorly cast there was no overcoming that. Compare that to the perfect casting of Professor X and Magneto in First Class.
Still better than most of the post-Endgame movies of the MCU
no it's not
@@marlonclark-pp9wg you like those woke MCU movies?
@@gamemaster2192 the only woke ones are captain marvel and the marvels everything else is good you good for nothing mcu hater
@@gamemaster2192 the only woke ones are captain marvel, black widow and the marvels but other than that everything else is good
@@marlonclark-pp9wg im sorry but the movies sucked they have nothing to do with the comics
As long as that third act stands where we see most the characters use their abilities to full extent... This cannot be the worse movie. The final act's fight scene is just too good. Magneto with the barrage of gun fire. Storm. Nightcrawler?!
Everything outside of the final act fight scene... Is disgusting.
Because the other acts weren't action-heavy?
Simon Kinberg sucks. How do you drop the ball twice on adapting the Phoenix saga smh
He didn't direct The Last Stand. It sounds like you didn't watch the video.
@@agentofchaos7456 I never said he directed The Last Stand but he did write it. Sounds like you didn't watch the video or read my comment correctly.
@@primefamous Directors have much more creative control on a film than a co-writer (Matthew Vaughn and Zak Penn were also part of the writing team). That is why directors get most of the credit when a film works or doesn't work.
I assumed you had basic knowledge about the film industry, and that you just under the misconception that Simon Kinberg was the director. But I guess I gave you too much credit. =/
@@agentofchaos7456 I actually work in the film industry as a PA so I know how it works quite well. You need to stop assuming.
Now my comment specifically refers to Simon Kinberg who served as a writer (along with Zak Penn, NOT Matthew Vaughn, he did First Class which is great) for this film AND writer/director in DP. My issue is that he wrote the story twice and failed. Stop trying to make this be bigger than what it is but I get the feeling that's too much to ask with someone like you =/
@@primefamous Matthew Vaugh himself has stated several times that he co-wrote the script with Simon Kinberg and Zak Penn. He just didn't get credited on it as a writer; probably because he didn't want the credit. Vaughn was actually going to direct the movie, but the studio decided to rush the production right before filming began. That was one of the reasons why he dropped out as director, the studio didn't give him enough to make the movie he wanted to make.
See? I'm clearly more informed on the subject than you are.
The problem was that Fox Studios didn't read comics, nor did they even watch their own previous movies. It was bizarre. I hope Kevin Feige does better.
It sounds like you didn't watch the video before posting that comment.