i thought the gun bending part at 13:00 was because he a had a gadget in his hand. i recall hearing a high pitched mechanical whining during that part in order to indicate the use of a bat gadget
This irritated me on my first viewing of the film: Batman doesn’t kill anyone but hits the garbage truck head-on with his Batmobile, at very high speed, causing the cab of the truck to fly up and smash into the ceiling of the tunnel, crumpling it into a pancake. Was the guy inside supposed to survive?
Nolan's trilogy makes a big deal out of establishing Batman's no kill rule - only for it to find arbitrary reasons for him to break it that don't add anything substantial to the narrative. Fans praise the trilogy. Yet BvS is framed entirely by the idea that Batman killing is wrong - that he has fallen. That it is not justified. Yet everyone acts like the film ruined the character.
You’re misinterpreting his principal. He doesn’t execute, but if you get in his way, he will stop you one way or another. Like in the DKR, he missiles the shit out of Bane’s goons to stop them but his intent is not to murder.
@@wetdon591 Always funny when an idiot doesn’t understand something and makes an embarrassing attempt at sarcasm not realising they’re the brunt of their own joke. Go you!
No kidding. I listen to a lot of Death Metal and can make out more words in those songs than in Batman's lines (and also Bane's in the final movie... and generally a lot of dialogue in a lot of Nolan's more recent movies).
For those who are annoyed and think I'm being unfair to DK, in part 1 of this review I went out of my way to find everything good in DK that I could, resulting in 20 mins of mostly praise for the scenes I like. Watch part 1 here th-cam.com/video/jf7mbc6cf6Y/w-d-xo.html So there is a healthy balance of opposing views between the two parts of this review. And it's not like I'm not willing to suspend disbelief for a fun movie. I love the Rambo movies for all out fun (except the most recent one). I even still can enjoy the stupid ninja movies from the 80's (the contradiction of extreme violence and childishly bad plots and dialogue and funny ninja power antics, it was like a unique genre of its own). It's also not true (as some have claimed in the comments) that I simply don't like super hero movies at all - I've made two vids on the first Superman movie. I like the Iron Man, Spider Man and Hellboy movies too. But DK I find ultra boring and cliched. However, so far it looks like most of you took the negative review well, despite disagreeing. As for the nitpicking aspects of the review, it's partially poking fun at DK (I like to troll a little here and there), but most of it is f***ing true !!! Lol A lot of folks claiming Batman could bend a gun barrel because he has a robotic device in the forearm of his costume. Nope. look at the footage. Regardless of Batman the guy holding the gun would require industrial strength to hold the gun firmly in place to be bent. It's stupid. and it's not nitpicking. It made my eyes role in my very first viewing of the film. others have added in the same scene the silliness that a moment later Batman jumps several floors onto the vehicle below. The driver puts on the breaks in advance to ensure his landing and Batman lands facing the wrong way. This isn't just me, others are seeing the same kinds of immersion-ruining flaws. I'm a big fan of Dredd 2012, which is dark and serious and based on a comic, but it also has the brutality to match its premise. It doesn't pretend to be an adult film, it is one. Also for those who say my complaint about the film is nothing more than it being unrealistic. No, the underlying psychological premises, the philosophy of the film, are extremely flawed. When there's psychological truth beneath the surface I embrace movies as childish as the Wizard of Oz. I'll do the same if something is satirical. And I like a lot of Pixar and other kids' films. Most of the arguments I'm hearing in defense of the film are so generic they could be used to defend near enough any bad movie, even the Ghosbusters Reboot. )
I think you may find more than a few who are less than silent about their feelings that The Dark Knight's "realistic" lens and the attitude of it's presentation do not hold up to scrutiny and feel that the film is carried solely by the addled performances of Ledger and Eckhart. These are not my own feelings, nor would I say that that is your point of view, simply that you may get a whole lot less hate than you initially anticipated.
Well here's the real explination on most of your issues, he's Batman lol that's all the explination you are warranted. I enjoyed this take by the way, not often people point out this movies flaws. Great stuff.
Fair enough -- I enjoyed your first video. Just offering a response from someone who enjoyed the film. As much as I think your opinion might be influenced by your overall sensibilities, which are rooted in 20th century film, it may also be said that I'm "biased" in it's favor because I was a kid when it came out. In all forms of art there can be some form or another of the same phenomenon whereby we all think that the golden age of music was the years in which we were a teenager discovering our tastes.
I really don't like the dialogue in this movie. I guess they wanted it to sound mature by having everyone talk like people who say they are interested in philosophy and ethics, but have never dived deeply into those subjects.
They're not dialogues, the actors are reading Nolans comments he wrote down with a pencil on the script. Batman the Animated series has more intelligent dialogue than Dark Knight.
Problem is they don't talk like normal people. They talk like those wise sage like characters you'd get from fantasies. Heck, Joker's dialogue while quotable and memorable, bores me sometimes of how Nearly all his dialogue can just be "this city sucks."
To paraphrase Patrice O'neal, in regards to the least believable, most jarring thing about The Dark Knight, is that a Billionaire Playboy, and the DA of a major city would be head over heels for Maggie Gyllenhaal.
So true! Hollywood really do take the piss. And now we're supposed to believe that an invisible man would spend his time stalking...Elizabeth Moss!
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Someone hasn’t seen The Secretary. Those rich executives and high-powered attorneys like their kinks. Also, the DA is one the same level of attractiveness as Maggie for that chin alone.
The fall from the building scene with Batman and Rachel really bothered me. Cause i was thinking "doesn't he have a grappeling hook?". He could've caught her or could've gotten back up with it. He left the Joker with a room full of civilians for his selfish gains. And Joker just....left? What?!
I don't think Rob knows about Batman Begins. He thinks Batman's ninja stealth skills are a plot hole instead of something they spent a big chunk of a movie establishing.
18:40 Forgive me if this has been covered, but a big part of the story (Dent's downfall) is that a number of Gordon's police officers are corrupt and taking orders from the mob/Joker.
Yeah, its clearly shown in the film. Dent even goes after corrupt police officers, Rob even uses 2 scenes of him doing this. But in the video he either avoids this or didn't notice
That just adds to the nonsense. Why would these corrupt officers fall in line with the Joker? Money? Corrupt cops would already be earning money from the mob, who they already have a relationship with. Would they really double-cross the mob for this clown? Surely the Joker would be most vulnerable to corrupt cops double-crossing him? If he has managed (for no reason at all) to have enticed these cops, then what are the mentally ill guys for? This is glossed over because any explanation doesn't make sense. The Joker's sudden grip on the city is a deeply flawed premise from the start.
@@ZeroFilmClips mob ties threatening your family? End of the day most simpleton "innocent" business will simply listen to to threats and do what they are told.
@@ZeroFilmClips There's a fan theory that Nolan's Joker is the main character in Fight Club, which would explain his connections to important people and his influence on the mentally insane.
@@ZChronicNebula That's even more and more absurd, how could Joker, a single who cares not for anyone, achieve this level of mind manipulation on multiple people? Even figures like Hitler pretended to fight for "their people".
You keep mentioning about how Batman can just disappear without being detected, despite not having superpowers. Have you not read the comics, seen the shows or Batman Begins? He was trained in stealth, specifically by the League of Assassins in this continuity. Him being able to blend in with the dark is his most common skill. 9:01 Gordon knew that there were moles in his department. The less people know that he survived, the better. Faking his death also lessened the chance that his family would be targeted next. At least, before Harvey went insane... 11:13 I've worked in banking for nearly 20 years, several of which involved doing branch ops, audits, and vault keeping. Vault security is obviously a big thing for me, so I always laugh at how unrealistic bank movie heists are. I've literally written essays in TH-cam comments sections of other videos, breaking down the logistics and how a full-blown Hollywood-style bank heist just wouldn't work. I can post it here if you want. The Dark Knight is no different. Also, "...unless they were stupid." Trust me when I say this: Most bank robbers are, in fact, stupid. 12:41 Other people have mentioned this, but he does have a gadget built into his glove; you can hear the whirring sound. But yeah, the thug should've had the gun forced from his hands or been knocked off balance. 16:11 "It seems that this was supposed to be funny, but I think having a pencil jammed through someone's eye into their brain is a little bit too nasty to be a joke." Uh, Rob? That's the _entire point_ of The Joker; he's supposed entertaining and horrifying at the same time. He's a mass murderer dressed up like a clown. What did you expect? Him dropping Rachel off of the building? Horrifying. Him doing after Batman tells him to let her go? Hilarious. And that pencil trick was way more believable than Joker's pen assassination in Batman Returns. It's not even the most ridiculous thing he's done. He once poisoned the fish in Gotham harbor and turned them into Joker Fish just so he could trademark his own food brand. Poisoning fish is terrible, but that a monster like him actually went downtown to the copyright office to matter-of-factly do the paperwork is hilarious. 17:30 The only way this could've worked is if he slashed down into Gambol's neck, or slashed up into his brain. I'm betting on the latter, but it's impossible to tell due to the camera angle. 18:28 The Joker didn't just have his own henchman, but utilized Sal Maroni's moles, Wuertz and Ramirez, as well. They worked in the same building as Commissioner Loeb, thus providing opportunities to poison his drink. They also had access to the case files, hence the Joker card. Joker's reliance on the moles is demonstrated just seconds later when The Joker uses Wuertz to access the party at Wayne Tower. Seriously, go back and watch the scene when he first gets inside. 19:32 Bruce intentionally acts this way to throw off suspicion of him being Batman. Seriously, it's saved his life more than once. Presenting himself as the vain, self-absorbed, a little out-of-his-depth, socialite is common facet of Batman stories seen in all mediums. 22:40 Again, he's using the mob's resources. Just because the one guy Harvey captures and interrogates is a paranoid schizophrenic doesn't mean they all are. 29:12 This is actually quite accurate, especially for Batman; you should try watching Batman: The Animated Series, Justice League/Unlimited, and Batman Beyond to watch this play out with his character arc over several decades of time in-universe. The idea you mention at 29:38 also happens to a certain extent with some characters in Batman Beyond and Return of the Joker , but it's also examined with Robin's insecurity of trying to live up to the mantle in Young Justice. 32:02 It's hinted early on that Harvey isn't as stable as he appears; he mentions that he's aware that Gordon's men have a nickname for him, and he and the audience only find out that the nickname is Two Face. The bright, upstanding, law abiding citizen is how he presents himself, but his more violent tendencies are hiding beneath the surface. Him going crazy solely due to Rachel's death is indeed contrived. In the comics continuity, he had an abusive childhood; his mentally ill father chose to beat him or not by flipping a coin. Harvey ends up being diagnosed with bipolar disorder and paranoid schizophrenia (the kind of mind the Joker attracts!) and ends up being fixated on a coin to make all his decisions. And yeah, I totally hated how Batman took the blame at the end. The coverup never should've happened. But if they did have to lie about it, they could've easily pinned it on one of The Joker's men.
My reaction when I first watched it - 10/10 second viewing 7/10 third viewing 4/10 fourth and final viewing - 2/10 . This film deteriorated over years for me from childhood nostalgia to nonsensical melodrama .
19:27 You don't understand as you're not familiar with Batman but he acts this way on purpose as to appear very unlikely to ever be "the Batman" to the public. In these scenes he's trying very much not to appear as "the hero" so by your own words, his behavior in the scene is accomplishing its purpose perfectly.
It's something from the comics or it's just your interpretation? Because if it's from the comics your argument it's not valid. Bruce actually seems to enjoy his rich boy life. In the movie it's a scene where he has a whole boat full of models. In Batman Begins he even buys a hotel. It's a character flaw. I get it. But your argument it's not solid for me.
In 2009, I fell 40 ft. through a skylight onto concrete. I was told by many surgeons I should not have survived that fall. I broke my femur, my foot, my elbow, wrist & hand. I broke my back, 23 fractures in my skull, blood clots in my brain and I was in a coma for 4 days. No way could that gangster survive have the distance in that fall. In fact, Batman and the girl would not have survived their fall. You ruined this movie for me. Thanks.
I thought the film was decent, but with Nolan movies, I always feel an emptiness, no emotion, no good philosophy etc, great visuals, but no soul. Please do a video on Inception.
@Daniel Jaramillo Sounds like it'd be good and convincing, but it doesn't work on me. That said, I find Batman Begins to be basically the best of Nolan's.
Agree with you. Nolan’s batman movies seem “good and perfect” but I barely feel any feeling for the characters and stories. Same with his new movie Tenet, empty and emotional less
"Hello 911? I'm a bus driver, and the bus in front of me just drove out of a bank. It was covered in debris. Maybe it was involved in a robbery. License plate is SC 812. Weird that they left any identifying marks on the bus, right?" "What is your present location and destination?" "Northbound on Avery towards Holbrook Elementary." "We received reports of a robbery in progress near that location. Are you moving right now?" "No, traffic is pretty bad." "OK, we have a squad near your location. Sit tight." THE END God this movie is fucking dumb. And it has the fucking gall to take itself more seriously than almost anything I've ever seen in my life. HOW DOES NOBODY GET THIS? WHY DOESN'T ANYBODY CARE?
@@collativelearning dark knight is a film i have seen so many times and when i was a kid i gave it like a 9.5 and now i barley give it a 7.5...its enjoyable but its so flawed in so many aspects if you actually use your brain..one of my complaints is a nitpick but its like one of 100 complaints i have and its one of the smallest that no one else has ever said but it proves how dumb the film is as an adult...when barbara gordon thinks her husband is dead and batman is there not only am i not clear if batman knows if jim is dead cause thats never made clear later when jim appears and catches joker when batman crashes and is knocked out..still have no clue if he knew jim was alive but she yells at him that this is his fault just for some tension and emotional stakes at that point of the film for the audience to feel which batman if he does know that jim is faking would not take to heart at all making the moment meaningless looking back and thus just filler that adds nothing on rewatch because its not like something batman grapples with that he caused jim's death cause he did not force joker to do what he did and he may know hes not dead not sure about that still and he did not cause jim to do that for harvey..it was his choice....but also she is insane blaming him for her cop husband for dying in duty saving a public figure...which is his job...that one moment fails on every level because how is it batman's fault anyways?..again this is a 1 out of 100 mistakes this film made...and its a small one...its not like joker killed the cop because batman will not reveal his id..he is going after harvey..jim just jumped in the way....cause its his job to...his job is dangerous pre batman in gotham of all cities...he could die anyday pre batman for not being corrupt and trying to change the city..i am sure they told her the truth about his death and i get shes unstable cause its so sudden but it just comes off as lazy writing to me...i look back and laugh at her because that emotion comes out of nowhere..maybe if earlier in the film theres a small line between her and jim where she has concern look on her face and she says you know one day batman may get you killed and then jim smirks and walks away..thats all it takes but the film is too lazy to even do that for 5 seconds so her being mad comes off as insanity and not in character same for why she left in dark knight rises...and took his son...a scene of him ignoring her concern over batman causing his safety harm could lead into us understanding why she left gordon in the next film off screen inbetween...during peace times...again flawed film...you can say they want the audience to be tricked by the gordon reveal later when hes alive but again did batman know or not and if not why should we care?..that just seems like tricking us for no reason and its not earned and on rewatch it ruins the scene cause we know hes not
While I think some points are nitpicking or lacking suspension of disbelief, I agree with the majority of the points. TDK isn't as perfect as I initially believed. The bus filling in the gap in between the other busses, after the bank heist always bothered me.
@@charlesthorndike2702 Some parts were nitpicking but man they made crack up. But he does bring up goods points. The film is trying too hard to be serious and atleast imo that's kinda hard for me get behind. For me atleast it's because of Batman himself. It's trying to be realistic, but in a sane world, a butler would use what power his has to get his billionaire boss mental help. From a fantasy point of view it's awesome! From an objective one when actually thinking about it, it's psychotic. No sane person would choose to dress as a bat and fight crime. I know i'm in the minority , but I can only suspend my disbelief so much. If the film didn't try to take itself so seriously I could buy it.
Re ‘scene logistics’ you forgot that after the fall from the party and land on the car, joker and thugs are still in the building above them and would still need to exit the building on street level. It’s just glossed over.
ReservoirFrog. That's a good point! Didn't think about that before. Batman could just wait in the lobby, lol. I read on the FAQ on IMDb that Joker and his goon may have stolen the helicopter that Bruce arrived in, though.
shonenlad one .... and then he takes them to his pad Patrick Bateman style... except he doesn’t do that. It’s all just a public display. A show. In fact he’s obviously playing a fake character.
Regarding Batman's voice - Kevin Conroy from Batman: TAS has the best Batman and Bruce Wayne voices. Distinctive and perfect for both, this is what other actors should aim for when playing Batman / Bruce Wayne.
I think the 30 minute cartoon was a much more effective format for the subject matter. Batman animated was really the best superhero rendition, and doesn't get the credit it deserves. It continues to influence media even today. It clearly was a huge inspiration to the "MCU" in many ways, most notably in bringing a shared superhero universe to screen. Having just watched the new "Invisible Man" film, it brought to mind the BTAS episode "See no Evil". Even shared the actress Elisabeth Moss.
One subtle thing is that his voice is the Batman voice. He puts on the overly friendly voice when hes speaking in public as Bruce but if he's in private with Dick or Alfred and he's not wearing the Batman suit he uses his regular voice, which is also Batmans voice.
I used to love the dark knight trilogy as a teen but then I realized how dumb it was by trying not to be anything like its comic book counterpart. It doesn't want to be a superhero movie. It's innately silly but tries to be so realistic. There's a difference in being grounded and being realistic. Nolan goes for realism. Also Nolan has his characters speak as if they're in philosophy class instead of having a normal conversation. I also laugh at how batman speaks now. It's ridiculous. I thought he was supposed to frighten his enemies not make them laugh. Also Nolan or someone involved forgets that part of Batman's appeal is his intelligence. Batman hardly does anything on his own in Nolan's world. He's given everything.
Nothing wrong with it trying to be realistic. You just need to get over the "this guy's dressed like a bat " and give the movie a chance. Just because it's based on a superhero IP doesn't mean thst it necessarily has to make light of itself
That's what I like about Matt Reeves' Batman. The world is clearly unrealistic, but there are grounded characters. Batman is grounded, suit included, in a fantastical world. Same thing with Riddler. He's a psycho 4channer in a fantastical world. In Nolan's movies, these are just terrorists in a normal world. Soldiers in a normal world. Businessmen in a normal world. It's much cooler to have grounded aspects be in a fantastical world, and it also allows the goofier aspects of Batman to be logical within the film's world, and not detrimental.
@The Official Verne The Turtle TH-cam Channel matt reeves batman is everything that's wrong with nolans movies amped up to 100000, it's absolutely atrocious
@@HunterMagunter I don't see how. He's an actual detective, the voice is way more tolerable, the action is way better, and it's clearly taking itself a lot less seriously. Just look at Colin Farrell's performance. No director who wasn't looking to do something hokey would allow overacting like that in a serious film. Reeves loves the 66' Batman. It's clearly an homage to that self-awareness hidden underneath the grunge of modern superhero flicks in a semi-fantastical world.
11:30 - to this point here, the clown you paused on *does* figure it out and attempts to take control and become last man standing. The moment he asks "where's the alarm guy?" and the one cracking the safe admits he was told to execute him while on the job, he figures it out. No excessive dialogue needed, we get it from this exchange.
In the '90s Batman animated series, Dent was shown to have multiple personality disorder and anger issues before his accident that makes him Two-Face. That made sense, but this film doesn't.
Sometimes animated superheroes stories are much better than live action versions and what's crazy is not only are they better sometimes you wish writers would just do that instead of making everything serious and dark.
Hard to watch in theater. Everytime Batman started talking my wife burst out in laughter. let’s not kick bale too hard because I distinctly remember Val Kilmer Batman doing the same sort of thing in an earlier film, maybe not as much. Also, I don’t remember them having Bale’s voice sound as weird in Batman Begins, except for a couple scenes. It’s like they decided to turn it up to 11 throughout the sequels. Michael Keaton did well enough without having his voice sound so altered. When He snarls “I’m going to kill you” to the joker, that comes off as totally authentic, pissed off nuts. There was nothing funny about it at all. you really believed he was about an inch from beating joker to death and then he finally kills joker. Funny how Bale sounds more like a tough guy but he doesn’t kill joker. Actions speak louder than weird words?
@@Galvatronover Yeah Yeah Yeah. “Batman doesn’t kill rule”.... yet he literally killed like 20+ league of shadow members in the previous movie, caused Ra’s al Ghul’s death, most likely caused the death of civilians by making Gordon use the batmobile to fire at the train tracks (which made the train fall and crash into a parking lot areas where lots of park car were at.. and caused the bridge that the train tracks were on to fall..), killed Two-Face, etc.
@@commonsenseguy7654 those all could easily be justified. (But I’m not going too because this is somthing that’s been happening for a while not just the Nolan films have yeah seen man of steel)
@@commonsenseguy7654 oh my god thank you. people complain too much about Michael Keaton's Batman killing people. When he's killed countless in the comics and several future movies and video games. Keaton's Batman is the #1 for me
Right on with the first complaint listed - "Why so serious?" The over-the-top self-importance, and morbid nihilism of many comic book movies has been driving me crazy for years. (And the same with the recent dark Bond movies!)
How is there anything nihilistic about this film? Unless you mean Joker's expectations, which are dashed and met with a cheesy narrative that all you have to do is inspire people and they'll act like superheroes (the idea that Gotham's fate hangs on Harvey Dent's reputation is absurd).
I think the Joker has planned out the things he does meticulously and carefully. And that he is putting up a act of him being chaotic and crazy. Take for example the bank robbing scene, It seems he places the bags of money in a specific spot near the doors where the bus is supposed to drive through and he stands far away from the doors behind the bags as not to get run over. Before the bus backs up through the wall, you can see that Joker checks the time to see how much time he has before the bus comes, so starts distracting the other robber with how the Joker is supposed to kill the bus driver to draw attetion away from the doors as he sidesteps in a way to get the other character to move into position where he will get run over by the bus that is supposed to arrive at a specific spot at a specific time. Another example is the scene with the Joker and Harvey Dent in the hospital where the Joker talks about how he is a "agent of chaos", and where he puts a revolver into Dent's hands he keeps his finger on the hammer of the revolver so it cant fire even if Dent tried to shot him. One more example is the ferries where he had a detonator in his pocket incase his plan failed, And he also says dont worry i came prepared. To me its seems like he is lying to everyone to make him seem like this crazy unpredictable person, when he has infact planned everything meticulously. He tries to corrupt Batman the whole movie, but he also had Dent as a backup plan incase he failed to do so.
Yes and he lies about how he got his scar one was because his father and the second was because of his wife. I'm sure the third one where batman hit him before he tells the reason would be another made up origin hence it clear he is lying
@@orangecrushaa One of the other scar origins is that he's a former soldier who got caught in a bomb blast, but he only implies that version vaguely in a quick aside (which is why most seem to think it's probably the true origin).
I am not a fan of this film but I will actually defend this scene. Later in hospital segment we see that joker escapes in a school bus so maybe before the bank robbery the joker had already somehow hijacked big number of school buses? Those school buses then acted as decoys. For instance, each bus went in difference direction, then it would have been much harder for police to track the joker's bus.
Also, the bus clearly doesn't even hit the guy. He's 3 feet away from it when he falls. It it doesn't even look like the fall was that bad. If the bus is going to hit the guy, then why not have them stand nearer the exit, and have it completely run him over? Because Nolan couldn't be bothered. That "F**k it, that'll do" attitude in Nolan's shots and set ups is astounding.
You hit on some excellent points -- some of which I've noticed and have bugged me as well -- number one was how every single one of Joker's plans were all implemented all too effectively and timely and perfectly, with every single one of his underlings not messing up in the slightest, despite the intricacies and complexity and variability of situations of such plans. This, above all, really took me out of the movie, especially on watching it in theaters on opening night. I left the theater more frustrated about this than excited about what I had just watched. But I've come to love the film with repeated viewings, primarily because of its greatest strengths that you cover in the first video. If you haven't seen the HISHE of this movie yet, there's a few things you mentioned that they strongly call out -- especially how he saves Rachel from falling to her death, and how jarring it is that immediately after it shows they're miraculously safe and completely uninjured, it just cuts immediately to the next scene -- probably the worst, most cliff-hanging edit in the whole movie. What about Wayne's hijacked party?? All those guests held hostage by Joker and his thugs?? Did they just see themselves out and call it a night?? Did they start killing off guests one by one because no one remaining would produce Harvey Dent?? Plot hole big enough to sink Texas.
Not only what those other two people said, but also so it can be shown in countries that dont allow blood in their films (China. Its also why a lot of the blood splatter in movies now is CG, so they can be edited out for the Chinese releases).
@@starwarsroo2448 short of some exceptions I know egregious amounts of blood are a no go in pg-13, so maybe Nolan just doesn't want to have to fight back and forth with the censors by trying to include blood
Same with Dredd: it's a police action satire that doesn't want to be a police action satire. And it calls a flare "hot shot" for some pretentious reason.
Fully agreed, I had a lot of problems with this film. The film's plot points are contrived to the extreme, everything feels forced and unnatural. It also feels as if they tried to cram two movies into one
@@rockys201 Oh I would love to take you to task on this. Already started correcting others in the blind agreement with the video. Go ahead and tell me what parts were forced or unnatural. I will show you why they were not. This video is from a person who is biased against super hero films and doesnt even realize that Nolan clearly stated his films werent meant to be realistic but a "heightened reality" that only goes far enough to allow a Batman story to be told well. Also lets hear your forced and unnatural evidence.
@@darkyknight9788 why do you think he's biased against superhero movies? It could maybe the case that he's a bit sick of them at this point. For me TDK has far too many conveniences, especially with the Joker. Not only are his plans way too perfect, but he has plans on top plans on top of plans. It doesn't feel like heightened reality, it all just goes too far to be believable and the film is so jam packed that it never gives itself a chance to breathe and it's always in a huge rush to get to the next big set piece. That's ok, but the film just seems to think it's being a lot more clever than it is. In truth it's just a very pretentious film
@@rockys201 Lol you project quite a bit. You're the pretentious one here that doesnt understand the character or the film. The Joker doesnt have perfect plans and he isnt a prophet. He has cards up his sleeve that he chooses to use in the right moment. Go ahead and tell me what his perfect plan was and I will show you why that wasnt planned at all. Also when he was doing his Shining theory of Danny being molested by Jack he said "If you cant handle it, go watch a braindead batman film". He gets almost everything wrong in this video because he is blinded by his bias. So are you.
Watching this has made me realize Batman The Animated Series might be more realistic or believable than The Dark Knight. Highly recommend giving it a watch by the way, especially Heart of Ice and the pilot On Leather Wings. It's a sophisticated show that does a lot of throwbacks to early 1900s pop culture, you've got film noir, mobsters, monsters out of pulp magazines, actual detective work (it's nice to see honestly, Batman IS the 'World's Greatest Detective' but we never see him do much of this even in a lot of the comics). You even bring up how unrealistic it is how Harvey switches from sane rational person to psychopath. In the two parter Two-Face from Batman TAS, it's revealed he's seeing a therapist and has had psychological issues (stemming from his childhood) that ends up turning him into Two-Face after pushed to the extreme. So once again, just more proof the ANIMATED Batman show is somehow far more realistic.
Okay... did you pay attention to Dent's arc in TDK at all? Because he was shown to be unhinged even before death of Rachel Dawes. Remember when he kidnapped one of Joker's henchmen showing a capacity to break under pressure? It's not like Dent was some flawless hero up until his disfigurement and death of his girlfriend.
@@moonlitebrite9317 One questionable thing to try and save someone isn't as convincing as how Dent was in TAS but thats my opinion. I really like TDK mind you.
@@SynthwavelLover Huh, one questionable thing? Even if it just happened once, it's NOT something to gloss over especially given the context. Just because they didn't go with the "Big Bad Harv" route doesn't mean it's less convincing.
I remember discussing it on the IMDB forum, and criticising it similar to your points. Back then it was impossible to have a rational discussion, the hype was just too intense lol
Really enjoy your videos rob especially your essays on Kubrick's films, but as a batman fan I can't agree with you on some points. Interesting watch though
@@collativelearning would love to see a video on the prestige rob ....I've recently been showing my dad your shining videos during lockdown...sparking healthy debate between father and son 👍🏻
I don't think the joker believes the world can't be controlled, he believes that morality is a lie that's only as good as when it's convenient for people.
He doesn't say morality is a lie. He says that people are only as moral as long as it is convenient to them. In the end he was proven wrong, moral people do exist in the world
The moment that pretty much kills the movie for me is the bizarre scene when we first meet Harvey as he interrogates a guy on a stand. That whole scene is a Bugs Bunny cartoon, only Bugs would have had a better one-liner to end on.
Moonlite Brite to be the devils advocate there are plenty of guns in bugs bunny as his main nemesis is Elmer Fudd a hunter that chases his with a shotgun but I do agree the Harvey scene never sat well with me although i love TDK as a whole
@@jeremiahrodriguez9029 Sure, there are guns in BB cartoon, but that doesn't automatically make it an equivalent to a Bugs Bunny. It's just a weird comparison that makes NO sense. As for Harvey scene, what about it didn't sit well with you? It's a homage to the comics except they replaced acid with a gun.
@@moonlitebrite9317 I thought it made perfect sense. Its exactly correct. Its something Bugs Bunny would say. Sorry you dont see that. It was both true and funny.
When Batman lands on the white truck why does it stop immediately as/before he falls on it? Wouldn’t the car continue to move a little longer due to delayed reaction time and brake physics?
@@psychomantis183 well i though that was the point to a video analysis of the movie. Take it easy,pal. I'm nitpicking it because it doesn't make sense.
@@psychomantis183 And who are you to say what film analysis should or shouldn't be? Did you just get out of film school or are you a director who hasnt directed anything yet?
Wayne Enterprises is probably the largest conglomerate in the DCU. And it might have something to do with not wanting all the branches to know what the other parts of the company are doing. Having a huge board probably helps prevent people from keeping up with each other and knowing what's happening.
Lol "Scene Ruiner". Some great points in this vid. My two main problems with pretty much every Nolan film: 1. Convoluted plots with an over reliance on exposition. 2. As you said, they take themselves way too seriously and actually end up coming across as corny as a result.
If you listen carefully, it's not merely that Batman is putting on a voice, there is some kind of modulation added in, which is meant to be diegetic. I always assumed without needing to be explicitly told that batman had some gizmo that altered his voice in real-time by generating an interference vibration in his throat so that any microphones wouldn't be able to cross-reference his voice print.
I agree with what you’re saying about the movie taking itself too seriously. That’s why I think Sam Raimi was a great choice to direct the Spiderman movies because his style is very comical yet it can be serious simultaneously. There’s a really great balance with his movies.
Yeah you're right about your observation, but Spiderman as a character is not Batman so the mood will be different. Spiderman as a character was always like that, full of quips and lighthearted ish. Not so much with Batman as he has evolved.
So refreshing to hear somebody pointing out flaws in this movie. Nolan is competent, but is overrated. His success in the industry comes from having weak competition.
8:12. This was the opening shot in the movie and when it came on in the cinema everyone gasped. It threw us into the movie. It was shot with IMAX cameras and I watched it on IMAX. I think you don’t appreciate these aerial shots because you saw them on a tv or monitor. When the movie is viewed the way it was designed for, these shots are incredibly evocative and bring Gotham to life.
I find it baffling that you would find this premise to be silly to the point of you not being able to take the movie seriously, but you love The Thing and several other movies with, let's say, eccentric premises.
I always took the convoy of buses as part of the heist, as in, he knew the buses came at that time. It’s not just the odds. The strange thing is that the buses behind let the rubble covered bus into traffic. The airplane collecting Batman by skyhook is in the air legally, but is piloted by smugglers, meaning they are up for collecting him by skyhook for money and are probably given a time to pass by the building. Batman willing to torture but not kill is probably to do with him representing US government abuse of power, hence the use of mobiles to spy on Gotham later. I’m not a fan of Dark Knight due to it being boring when Joker is offscreen but I do think you are looking for more issues than there actually are.
From the whole concept of the joker character, I took it that joker hired goons to drive buses around as a distraction. The idea being like many heist films were the police find it difficult to spot the offending vehicle from a follow. Did we ever see school kids in those buses?
@John Mateus But a school bus pulling out from a destroyed bank, and he shrugs that off? I assumed (like others here) that the convoy of buses were in on it, otherwise it doesn't make sense.
@@collativelearning The average city bus driver has two concerns though A) whether the people getting on adds up to his cash box and B) how long until his shift ends.
@@suchalad dark knight is a 7.5...for all its positives it has a lot of negatives flaws and mistakes...for the record 95% of superhero films are 6 or worse so a 7.5 is high for that genre...objectively a good superhero film is a 6.5...good writing filmmaking requires thought and 99% of superhero films are about money not coherent correct writing...ruins every single one of them for me...the best one i saw as spiderman 2 just for consistency and even then its like a 8/10...and enjoyment wise like a 7.5...its very boring and strange or goofy and cringe on rewatch melodramatic but its the best superhero film i have seen made in real life...they really tried with it,...most of these films do not try..dark knight is no exception...endgame is the same thing
The reason it was so serious is because the whole point was the idea if Batman existed in real life. These things wouldn’t be wacky in reality. And Batman’s entire training is stealth so that’s how he disappears and reappears
7:33 the entirety of The Dark Knight is shot, edited, and scored like a movie trailer. In fact, I blame The Dark Knight for Suicide Squad, which took that approach and turned it to 11. Once you notice that TDK feels like Nolan is scared to officially "start" the movie in case viewers get bored you can never un-see it. That's why the Blu-Ray is on my shelf gathering dust.
Thanks for posting this. I have been pulling my hair out convincing so called movie lovers who rate this movie, how rubbish the dark knight movies are. Glad to know there is someone else out there that noticed how bad the writing is.
I'm going to respond the same way that I do to a lot of your videos -- I'm only a few minutes in (I'll probably edit with more thoughts when I'm further into the video) but right off the bat you say that superhero films "always have a childlike wish fulfillment element," and that therefore they should not take themselves too seriously. I think this is a dated opinion. For as long as people have told stories they have often had fantastical elements. The only difference is that the particular motifs of superhero films are a novel manifestation of that, and a manifestation which a generation ago was considered "for children," and which presently is being treated a little bit more seriously. But there's nothing inherent in the genre that makes it any different than a sci-fi film, or Greek myth. If you're willing to take those things seriously as stories, than you should be willing to take superhero films seriously as stories. I both respect you as a film analyst and agree that The Dark Knight is overrated (although my overall opinion of it is positive, unlike yours, I still agree that it's vastly overrated), but I often get a "kids these days" vibe from your videos about newer films. I think for instance there were probably a lot of people who were your age when Star Wars came out, and had a similar opinion. And they were probably making legitimate points, just like you are. There is a certain wish fulfillment aspect to the Force as well, for example. But accepting the Force as an aspect of the Star Wars setting is a part of the basic suspension of disbelief contract between Star Wars and it's intended audience. Star Wars isn't interested in satisfying people who can't get past it's inherent silliness because it simply wasn't made for those people. The same is true of a lot of your criticisms of The Dark Knight (although I will admit that it tries to be a lot darker than Star Wars does, the occasional "I am your father" scenes notwithstanding). And niether does the fact that kids are a crucial demographic in the Star Wars audience prevent it from also having some deeper themes (which you've analyzed in some of your videos). Edit 1: You mentioned the use of movement in establishing shots in a pretty biased way. Nolan is utilizing a cinematographic technique to lend his film a sense of movement even in the slower bits -- the effect is a slightly more suspenseful film. Literal movement of the camera leads to a greater perception of narrative movement. Why is that necessarily bad? It's arguably an example of "intensified continuity cinema," "post-continuity cinema," or "chaos cinema," in the neologisms of various contemporary film theorists, but unlike other such trends (such as "shaky cam" action or "found footage" films), it does not make the shot any less clear. You could say that The Dark Knight should be getting it's suspense from the script, but in large part it is. Films use techniques of cinematography to establish a tone. That's all The Dark Knight is doing. Edit 2: You say that your friends often agree with you on your points individually, but still like the film. I'm in a similar position with regard to most of your points -- when you're positively predisposed towards a film, then you often see some of its minor flaws rather as charming quirks. Batman's voice, for example, is the butt of many jokes in the fan community. As is, returning to my Star Wars comparison, the incestuous kiss between Luke and Leia. Or, to cite one of my favorite films, in Jurassic Park when the T-Rex breaks out if it's paddock, late in the scene there's a cliff right where the Rex made a hole in the electric fence. That cliff wasn't there before. It makes zero sense. But that's hardly relevant, I think, because most viewers don't notice on first viewing. I think that scene is one of the classic scenes in film history, despite this gaping continuity error. But if I didn't like Jurassic Park, I'm sure I would cite that as a reason why. Edit 3: "Hence the hookers -- uh, I mean 'models'" -- lol, do you see why I think your perspective is biased? In the film they are models. You're implying a legitimate criticism here where there is none. Edit 4: Again, you're nitpicking. The pencil trick scene establishes the Joker's character beautifully. It's difficult to be both intimidating and funny at the same time, but I think this scene achieves that. The "pencil trick" would be nigh-impossible in real life, yes... but the same could be said for any number of things in any number of action films. Real hand to hand combat, for instance, is far messier than it is portrayed in virtually any film. Countering punches precisely and consistently is not something it's even possible to master -- for reference, see any MMA fight. But having your action protagonist or antagonist be a better martial artist than is, in reality, humanly possible, is a motif endemic to the whole genre because such choreography is much more glamorous to watch. The Dark Knight is hardly unique in that respect, but you are being uniquely harsh in your criticism. Furthermore, you say that graphic violence can't be played for laughs... although you seem to like it when Tarantino does it. And Tarantino tends to show a lot more blood. You simply didn't like the joke because you don't like film. That's fine -- just be more honest about it rather than playing it off like an objective critique. Edit 5: Gambol dropping from a mouth wound is something I noticed too, I'll admit that. But if you want to be needlessly strict in your standards of realism, then consider that in reality, many people faint in response to any number of things, including a simple blood test at the doctor's office. Granted, being a gangster is not for the faint of heart, but then again, who knows -- the joker had just scared the shit out of him, so Gambol at that point is probably having a physiological reaction, like an anxiety attack. We also don't see exactly what the joker did to him -- maybe he cut his face and then stabbed his neck. The camera cuts away quite intentionally -- Nolan's philosophy with the joker of course being that leaving certain things to the imagination can have a greater impact than showing them. Plus, the film needed to be pg13 -- you can view it as a compromise in the name of marketing towards kids, or a tasteful way of incorporating that requirement. This point has more merit than a lot of your points but I still think you approach this scene from quite a biased perspective -- it seems like you're not giving the film a chance. At this point I'm just going to finish your video, and give some final thoughts, rather than addressing each point individually. Edit 6: Yeah, your issue with the film is simple: you don't accept the premise. To an extent that can't be held against the film, I think. This film, like many films, requires some level of suspension of disbelief. Your nitpicks are often accurate (but not always -- it's obviously possible to slow down or accelerate yourself when sliding down an inclined plane, for example), from the standard of realism you're applying, at least. But the people who enjoy the film simply do not apply that standard. The thematic critiques are far more substantive but you barely touch on them. I do not agree with the pro-surveillance state message either, for example. I would have been more interested in a video chiefly exploring The Dark Knight's themes.
Good lord, this movie isn't worth this much time and effort. The simple facts are that the movie is a disaster in every way. It's unbearably pretentious, and note all of the parts pointed out in the video about the plot just not making any sense.
Damn, Dillon Walker! Way to tell it like it is! ----- BTW, I always figured that Joker stabbed up into the top of his mouth first, then cut through the side. That's how I've always interpreted Gambol's quick drop.
Agree Rob premise on superhero movies can't be serious is wrong and agree with a lot points the original comment said and there is a level of suspension of disbelief required in any batman but if you don't I agree the movie can be unrealistic and Rob point aren't wrong but he looking at it from a perspective that I think is off. I think first time I disagreed with Rob and appreciate his pov nonetheless
I agree with you on the pencil point and sort of agree with you on the point about superheroe films being serious, but the Gambol collapse was just stupid and your explanation seemed like a fan bending over backwards to defend something they love. It isnt really nitpicking to point out things that are blatantly stupid, suspending disbelief and lowering your IQ by 50 points from one minute to the next are not the same thing. What is your limit on this? Your point seems to be that in a work of fiction you can have literally anything happen. Well, yes and no, even in a work of fiction your world still must operate by certain rules to be compelling. If Batman leaped 30 ft horizontally through the air or Alfred delivered a roundhouse kick you surely would wonder what the writers were playing at? You seem to miss that Rob did make the point that if you are going to make a super serious superheroe film then these nonsensical moments are going to provoke more thought. Is this a dark, gritty movie where everyting about Batman is grounded in reality or a switch your brain off movie like Army of Darkness where we dont need to ask how a double barrel shotgun can fire half a dozen shots without reload?
@Awesome Welles Im pretty sure the tagline refers to the anarchic nature of the main villain and his attitudes towards society not to the laws of physics
I think the problem is that the live action movies try to be realistic. Being live action is not the same as being realistic. But most live action movies try to be realistic and fail
That's kind of like all of Nolan's films the Inception The Dark Knight I both saw in the theater I was blown away years later I went back to them and found them both to be boring and unwatchable, rewatchability is a characteristics of an incredible and classic film
18:30 I thought the script made it clear that, at this point, the Joker has mafia backing. The same mafia that successfully snuck a gun into court and do have the high-society connections that are needed for some of these hi-jinx
Collative Learning had better avoid Mask Of The Phantasm... because that is the best Batman film ever made... And nothing he says can change that truth.
So true. For me it's, ironically as it is an animated movie made for kids, the most adult version of Batman. It's melodramatic, epic, humorous and the music is one of the best I've ever heard. Most underrated Batman movie and also the best for sure
When I watched this in high school, yeah I took it seriously. Looking at it again now, the unbelievably god-like execution of joker's plots just bore me because "he's the joker" is my only reason to suspend disbelief.
Bit late to the discussion, but based on some of the comments, it does seem as though comic book movie fans treat criticism of their favourite movies as a personal attack. It reminds me of a line from 'the Big Bang Theory' in which one of the characters says "you don't have a personality, you just have a bunch of movies that you like"
This. its one thing to insult a movie, its another when you insult a fan base. This guy didn't attack anyone and simply said he didn't see it the way they do and the fans of this movie STILL insult him. When this movie came out 10+ years ago they would give death threats to those who even had the slightest nitpick such as "being a hair too long" for example. and yet funnily enough some of these same people claim themselves to be 'smart and critical thinkers because they absorb so much information'. Some things never change it seems.
18:35 because the mob has people everywhere…. DA’s office, police, court….. and Joker used their resources, like he did to have Dent and Rachel kidnapped…..did you actually watch the movie?????
I want to elaborate on your first point - being the film is too self-serious despite being about something inherently silly. I only half agree. I agree that TDK is too serious, not because comic books can't be serious - but because TDK rejects openly all of the inherent fantasy in not just the Batman comics, but comics in general. It seems you implied that in order for a superhero film to help suspend disbelief, it has to call attention to itself in some way and say "See kids, it's not so serious. You're allowed have fun." I don't agree. In fact, I think too many superhero films feel lowkey ashamed of being superhero films and need to inject ironic and meta humor to make audiences feel better about watching superhero films. It's all subjective and mileage may very, but a comic book film can be super serious, dark, grim etc. all it wants. What it has to do, imo, is get across the fact it's a comic book world. A dark superhero film can be like a dark sci-fi film or dark fantasy film - it can tackle heavy tones and subject matter as well as work within a fantastical world. In essence superheroes are really not much different than other fantasy characters like magical beings or alien races or whatever. If we can take that stuff seriously, we can take superheroes seriously. Take Logan for example. It's R-rated, grim, and depressing. Yet it takes place in a subtle, futuristic world with shades of dystopian fiction sprinkled throughout. The world of Logan looks very much like our own - but a slightly sci-fied version. TDK does not do this. TDK is just a crime thriller about a guy in a Bat suit and a criminal in clown paint. Gotham has no personality. It has no identity. It's just a stark, sterile looking city. In TDK's attempt at grounding the mythos in as realistic a world as possible, ironically, the film ends up being something it's trying desperately to avoid: It' ends up being silly.
I’d that’s the case than shouldn’t the daredevil show be silly that takes place in new York Having a fake character in a real life based setting has been done before This doesn’t mean the story can have a serious tone
I completely agree with the essence of your argument. This is actually why as I’ve grown older I’ve grown to like Batman Begins more. Compared to the Dark Knight it has more of a sense of a heightened reality. It has more humor and is overall more fun than Dark Knight.
Okay, I understand the dislikes now, this is quite the shitshow You have a bias against superheroes for some reason. Why are you stuck on the premise? Focus on the execution. Any premise can be pulled off well, no matter how insane. Just talk about where the movie fails at that, not about your own idea of the world doesn't mesh with a character's from this movie, or how you'd react to them if you saw them irl. That's irrelevant and subjective. 5:40 What's the ISSUE? What's wrong with Batman disguising his voice by doing a "bad clint eastwood" impression? How is that a problem with the movie? Just because someone sounds cringe when they try to disguise their voice, doesn't make it bad, it still makes sense. Best way that criticism holds any water is if it's directed against Christian Bale as a bad casting choice given his voice.
@@Ballardiandid you pay attention to his arguments they are bad and take into account for the explanations in the story Harvey was already shown to be unstable when he going to toss a coin to decide if he should shoot him to get info on the joker
Indra Deus yes ik, it still wouldnt make sense because the enemy apparently has enough strength to still hold onto the weapon. In no scenario does that scene make sense
LMAO I just took in: Batman falls a few stories onto a moving white van, obliterates the roof, knocks out its passengers, and manages to not receive any recoil damage. Then later in the film, he and Rachel fall from a skyscraper onto a much smaller taxi. Not only do the two of them together cause much less damage on impact to the car, the driver inside is completely unharmed!
15:49 I don't like this scene because Ledger is doing like a cheesy monologue you might prepare and memorize for an audition in Hollywood. You almost expect him to end with: "aaaaaand SCENE". But it made a good first impression in the cinema.
I noticed several of the bad scene logistics back when I first saw the movie and to me the worst of them all is everything related to the Joker's "brilliant" plan of getting caught to break Lao out of jail. How did the goons know at which altitude the helicopter was gonna fly when they put the rope across the street (only a few seconds before it happened no less, as if they just have access to any apartment in the city)? What if the helicopter had gone up and missed it? What if there had been a second helicopter? When Batman blasts the car out of the way, how did he know it wasn't gonna kill anybody? It's a traffic jam, so you should assume that there's somebody in every car, plus carefree pedestrians crossing over since everything is standing still anyway. The motorbike ride through the mall has some similar issues, because humans will react in various ways when they see danger coming; some people just freeze up or procrastinate when they don't know in which direction to dodge, so it could have well happened that somebody tried to step back at the last moment while Batman could have decided to drive behind that person, hitting them in the end. What if the Joker could NOT have provoked the cop in the interrogation room into a fight? He never could have gotten the upper hand and eventually gotten his phone call. And of course it's just all too convenient that the explosion kills or knocks out everybody except for the Joker and Lao. As for the ships with the bombs, I also found it ridiculous that the civilians decide to take a vote when they very well know that any second somebody on the other ship could kill them. Also, after the one man holding the detonator puts it back, a few other people should have jumped up and "volunteered" to do it for him. FFS, there were children on board; wouldn't the parents be more okay with sacrificing a ship full of criminals (and some guards) to save their innocent children's lives? Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed this movie and thought it was very entertaining, but it is indeed overrated. It's a good movie when you're willing to turn your brain off during the ride.
You've just articulated the exact reasons why I didn't view this movie as highly as many others have. I saw it on it's very first release day in IMAX and apart from some of the photography, I didn't feel the story grabbed me in the slightest. By contrast, I also saw Alien on its very first screening and when I walked out, I knew I'd seen a masterpiece. So much so that I went to see it again and again before it disappeared from the cinema circuit. Not so with The Dark Knight. Once was more than enough for me!
Batman is equally as insane as the Joker. They are two sides of the same coin. Bruce Wayne died with his parents, after that he lived only to fight crime. That's why Batman looks and sounds so crazy, it is funny, that's why Joker likes him so much. And he bent that gun with a hydrolic device in his suit. You can hear the sound effect and see the device malfunction when he tries to use it to cut the side of the van.
@@collativelearning I believe this to be a matter of mechanical leverage. He gripped the rifle so close to the end that he was at a mechanical disadvantage, so the weight of the man was enough to offset the force needed to bend the gun. Sure it’s not feasible with steel, but it might be with aluminum. We don’t know what the metal of the gun was. The criminal gang could have been experimenting with cheap flimsy weapons. I’m sorry, I love your videos, you’re a genius. But critiquing Batman on the internet is like critiquing Muhammad in a mosque.
There is a comic where Bruce is really way more psycho and suffers from extreme traumatic depressions, and turns out ALFRED (who is more like a father who loves him above everything in the world and feels responsible) realizes Bruce can only be happy if he is fighting super-crimes....so he hires actors to pretend they are Riddler, Penguin, etc...and starts to play a cat-mouse game with Bruce, but eventually, Bruce defeats them, so Alfred himself, becomes the Joker, in order to save Bruce life (from a upcoming suicide due to depression).........quite a gang of psychopats!!!
@@collativelearning regarding physics, it is possible, if the leverage is produced on the same device........cosider this: Batman has one of the edges of the (presumebly) hydraulic lever in his palm, and the other part is in his forearm, with a pivot around his wrist line........there will be no pull on the other guy's arms (still.....all the weight of the pressure will be transfered on batman's arm........it is still a bit weird, since it requiers some spot to anchor the devise, but still, we are talking on why the weight didn't lifted the other guy or took the weapon out of his hands)......or, it could be the pressure being generated to close both parts on themselves (which will requier some sort of chain mechanism)....still, it is all a bit out of the hat.
I completely agree, I had the highest expectations for this film and I found it very underwehlming. That scene with rachel falling and batman catching her and they land on a car and she's just like ''wow that was intense'' i mean what??? And that scene ends there, what happens to the joker? did he and his crew simply leave the party? Honestly Tim Burton's batman is faaaaaar better. Batman returns is my favorite and in there you have similar things but they are done in a comical way that fits the tone of the movie, for example the part where catwoman falls and lands on a truck and she says ''saved by kitty litter'' although the truck is very conveniently passing through, it works because of the campiness of the film and for the nature of the character.
I agree! And not to mention that Batman would just leave without going after Joker... instead, the scene ends right there! Like wtf? One of my biggest gripes though is why didn't they show Bruce tinkering with the batmobile, not necessarily saying what he's doing, but simply saying he's "upgrading it" to Lucius Fox. Then when he crashes the tumbler and the bike comes out, it would have been mind blowing. Just a 3 to 5 minute scene that would show how intelligent Bruce really is instead of just vomiting cool shit just for the sake of being cool without giving context or explanations.
When Joker pulls the bus out of the bank, with all the debris falling off and such, what the heck is going through the mind of the bus driver behind him?
You missed the glaring plot hole, once BM and chick land on the car, they skip to the next scene. Leaving the Joker and his gang holding hostages in Bruce's penthouse. Seems like that needed to be addressed.
You're right about Batman taking the blame at the end and at the time I thought that it was stupid but just palmed it off as something that would play out in the next movie. And I dont know why they went over board with Batman's voice, it was perfectly fine and understandble in Batman Begins.
Interesting video Rob, you made some excellent points here. I recommend you watch Batman The Animated Series because it manages to balance the comic book goofinees and seriousness. I still like The Dark Knight a lot as well as Batman Begins, TDKR was a massive disappointment though.
17:56 because he used the sonar tech , the same tech he used in the climax of the movie 🤡 You know, the tech Fpx showed him in Hong Kong before the extraction
Hell No. Dark Knight is the best one of the trilogy by leaps and bounds. The only gripe I have with the film is Batman's voice. Everything else is spot on.
Batman Begins was a decent start to a rather mediocre trilogy, that for some strange, incomprehensible reason, is heralded by millennials as one of the greatest achievements in cinema history.
@@Grandmaster_Dragonborn What do you mean, you disagree with it? There's nothing subjective about a legitimate mistake a movie makes. You can say it doesn't bother you and that would be subjective but other people pointing out a mistake is not subjective at all.
Me, before watching The Dark Knight: "maaan, it's the 4th best film ever according to IMDB! It's better than Fight Club, it's better than One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, it must be sooo good, I'm in for a treat!" Me, after watching The Dark Knight: "people are idiots."
The IMDB top 100 list is an absolute joke, I actually thought The Dark Knight was pretty good and I'm not a big fan of Nolan but it shouldn't be in the top hundred let alone fourth
James Rolfe also discussed how the IMDB top #100 is very skewed towards Crime Dramas. It is just a thing that apparently happens that online voters favor crime dramas as "more serious" or "better" than other genres.
Oh geez Idk if I can handle a half hour of analysis of a movie that was soooo bad, I couldn’t actually finish it. It was DUMB, regardless of how talented Heath ledger was. The movie is shiite. Boring AF. On the other hand, Joaquin Phoenix as the Joker, he was amazing! And that movie was well done and moving. It didn’t even matter that it was a joker movie. It was just a good movie. The movie was so boring that I totally forgot that Christian Bale was even in it. So many talented actors including Maggie Gyllenhaal for such a stupid film. What a waste.
My exact thought. When I was an edgy 14 year old I actually thought that this movie is a masterpiece. It's crazy how wrong I was. The movie was good but it's nowhere near the title of a masterpiece and yes, the joker is amazing. Both the movie and the character.
19:14 Seeing this I wonder, have you seen Batman Begins? I ask not because it should inform this movie (which it does, but a movie should be able to stand on its own, even a sequel) and not because it's the superior movie (which I believe it is) but it makes moments like this a little more clear if you're not outwardly familiar with what's going on right away. This doesn't make Bruce Wayne unsympathetic (and they may very well be escorts or something), but Bruce makes a conscious decision to act bafoonish. It's the same as when Christopher Reeve's Superman acts especially clumsy and socially inept, the idea is to avoid suspicion. In this case, Bruce Wayne is an eccentric, shallow, reckless playboy who spends his time screwing super-models and taking luxurious retreats (things skiing accidents can also be a good way to explain mysterious injuries). So when you see a moment like this, the gag is that you're in on the joke. That he's making a complete ass of himself in order to maintain this persona of "Bruce Wayne: Eccentric Billionaire". Again, much like Christopher Reeve's Clark Kent pretending to faint after catching a bullet. Although in this movie there's the added subtext of the fact that he's feeling sexually competitive with the Harvey Dent character.
I used to hate superhero movies. But I liked dark knight. I feel like your none of your criticisms hold up. You missed alot of important points. Like that Batman and Joker are supposed to represent Superego and the Shadow, two sides of the same coin. Superhero movies are modern myths. And Nolan was aware of this. Your critisisms can be corrected quite easily.
@@collativelearning true...I do understand your stance, as I shared it most my life. But I thought DK was a bit better then most. I'm still a fan big of yours. We all have bad takes sometimes :)
First time I saw this movie I stopped it exactly at 15:00 , which seemed totally like a Simpsons Scene. Then years later I gave it another try, saw the whole thing and I was appalled. Also this movie is the reason I stopped looking at IMDB. It is outrageous this movie is in the top 5 in that site.
Same!! Imdb lost all credibility when they put all 3 of Nolan's Batman movies in the top 250 (TDK being #4), yet other great comic book movies like Watchmen, Winter Soldier, Avengers, Superman and others are not even in the top 250.
I read a theory a few years ago that suggested the Joker was a former high ranking military vet which would explain his ability to plan and execute complex schemes and his access to trained followers: his former military servicemen.
Another outstanding analysis. Highly overrated yet fawned on film. An unknown first time writer could not get this script with these obvious flaws and coincidences past an entry-level reader was what I thought the first time I watched it.
The seriousness critique is uniquely unfitting for Batman. In fact, it is the only superhero franchise that can take itself seriously, because no character in the Batman universe has super powers, at least in so far as Noland's Batman.
Butters: "I thought that movie was pretty good."
'Oh hamburgers'
"It's Butters"! "That's ME!"
you're grounded!
me, too!
Butters & General Disarray need a gritty Nolan origin movie
i thought the gun bending part at 13:00 was because he a had a gadget in his hand. i recall hearing a high pitched mechanical whining during that part in order to indicate the use of a bat gadget
That’s exactly it, I was worried about commenting in case he addresses it later in the video lol
There's quite a few points rob makes that are wrong or because he isnt a batman fan wouldn't know certain details about the movies
@Dexter Morgan I completely agree...sadly this is the first video from rob I that hasn't sat right with me and not just because I'm a batman fan
Assuming that's true the other guy would have to be stronger than Arnie to hold down the pressure at the other end.
Collative Learning more of that scene ruiner magic i suppose
This irritated me on my first viewing of the film: Batman doesn’t kill anyone but hits the garbage truck head-on with his Batmobile, at very high speed, causing the cab of the truck to fly up and smash into the ceiling of the tunnel, crumpling it into a pancake. Was the guy inside supposed to survive?
What scene was that
Nolan's trilogy makes a big deal out of establishing Batman's no kill rule - only for it to find arbitrary reasons for him to break it that don't add anything substantial to the narrative. Fans praise the trilogy.
Yet BvS is framed entirely by the idea that Batman killing is wrong - that he has fallen. That it is not justified. Yet everyone acts like the film ruined the character.
You’re misinterpreting his principal. He doesn’t execute, but if you get in his way, he will stop you one way or another. Like in the DKR, he missiles the shit out of Bane’s goons to stop them but his intent is not to murder.
@@wetdon591 Always funny when an idiot doesn’t understand something and makes an embarrassing attempt at sarcasm not realising they’re the brunt of their own joke. Go you!
@@wetdon591 Do you even have a functioning brain ?
I agree that Batman's voice is a problem. I used to say that he sounded like Cookie Monster with a head cold.
th-cam.com/video/7enjABApKWE/w-d-xo.html
Let's hope in the future Christian Bale's Batman get another that voice was awful and laughable.
@ Three was bad as well and why did the music sound like Halloween music almost just saying.
No kidding. I listen to a lot of Death Metal and can make out more words in those songs than in Batman's lines (and also Bane's in the final movie... and generally a lot of dialogue in a lot of Nolan's more recent movies).
His voice never bothered me, he’s a famous guy in Gotham city! He’s gotta disguise his voice! But I know, it’s easy to make fun of it.😁
For those who are annoyed and think I'm being unfair to DK, in part 1 of this review I went out of my way to find everything good in DK that I could, resulting in 20 mins of mostly praise for the scenes I like. Watch part 1 here th-cam.com/video/jf7mbc6cf6Y/w-d-xo.html So there is a healthy balance of opposing views between the two parts of this review. And it's not like I'm not willing to suspend disbelief for a fun movie. I love the Rambo movies for all out fun (except the most recent one). I even still can enjoy the stupid ninja movies from the 80's (the contradiction of extreme violence and childishly bad plots and dialogue and funny ninja power antics, it was like a unique genre of its own). It's also not true (as some have claimed in the comments) that I simply don't like super hero movies at all - I've made two vids on the first Superman movie. I like the Iron Man, Spider Man and Hellboy movies too. But DK I find ultra boring and cliched. However, so far it looks like most of you took the negative review well, despite disagreeing. As for the nitpicking aspects of the review, it's partially poking fun at DK (I like to troll a little here and there), but most of it is f***ing true !!! Lol
A lot of folks claiming Batman could bend a gun barrel because he has a robotic device in the forearm of his costume. Nope. look at the footage. Regardless of Batman the guy holding the gun would require industrial strength to hold the gun firmly in place to be bent. It's stupid. and it's not nitpicking. It made my eyes role in my very first viewing of the film. others have added in the same scene the silliness that a moment later Batman jumps several floors onto the vehicle below. The driver puts on the breaks in advance to ensure his landing and Batman lands facing the wrong way. This isn't just me, others are seeing the same kinds of immersion-ruining flaws.
I'm a big fan of Dredd 2012, which is dark and serious and based on a comic, but it also has the brutality to match its premise. It doesn't pretend to be an adult film, it is one. Also for those who say my complaint about the film is nothing more than it being unrealistic. No, the underlying psychological premises, the philosophy of the film, are extremely flawed. When there's psychological truth beneath the surface I embrace movies as childish as the Wizard of Oz. I'll do the same if something is satirical. And I like a lot of Pixar and other kids' films.
Most of the arguments I'm hearing in defense of the film are so generic they could be used to defend near enough any bad movie, even the Ghosbusters Reboot. )
I think you may find more than a few who are less than silent about their feelings that The Dark Knight's "realistic" lens and the attitude of it's presentation do not hold up to scrutiny and feel that the film is carried solely by the addled performances of Ledger and Eckhart. These are not my own feelings, nor would I say that that is your point of view, simply that you may get a whole lot less hate than you initially anticipated.
Also have to say, I've been looking forward to your take on this film for a while.
Well here's the real explination on most of your issues, he's Batman lol that's all the explination you are warranted. I enjoyed this take by the way, not often people point out this movies flaws. Great stuff.
Fair enough -- I enjoyed your first video. Just offering a response from someone who enjoyed the film. As much as I think your opinion might be influenced by your overall sensibilities, which are rooted in 20th century film, it may also be said that I'm "biased" in it's favor because I was a kid when it came out. In all forms of art there can be some form or another of the same phenomenon whereby we all think that the golden age of music was the years in which we were a teenager discovering our tastes.
Your videos relax me and I often fall asleep to them
I really don't like the dialogue in this movie. I guess they wanted it to sound mature by having everyone talk like people who say they are interested in philosophy and ethics, but have never dived deeply into those subjects.
Yea i dont like that in films
@Disney is the Devil I feel like he dropped a lot of that with Dunkirk.
They're not dialogues, the actors are reading Nolans comments he wrote down with a pencil on the script. Batman the Animated series has more intelligent dialogue than Dark Knight.
@Disney is the Devil The garbage dialogue in his movies is the worst. It's like the movie is giving a running commentary of itself
Problem is they don't talk like normal people. They talk like those wise sage like characters you'd get from fantasies.
Heck, Joker's dialogue while quotable and memorable, bores me sometimes of how
Nearly all his dialogue can just be "this city sucks."
To paraphrase Patrice O'neal, in regards to the least believable, most jarring thing about The Dark Knight, is that a Billionaire Playboy, and the DA of a major city would be head over heels for Maggie Gyllenhaal.
So true! Hollywood really do take the piss. And now we're supposed to believe that an invisible man would spend his time stalking...Elizabeth Moss!
Someone hasn’t seen The Secretary. Those rich executives and high-powered attorneys like their kinks.
Also, the DA is one the same level of attractiveness as Maggie for that chin alone.
Could be worse. That character was originally played by Katie Holmes.
@@coreygraham860 Katie is by far better looking than Maggie, and she isn't even hot.
Jokes aside that is probably the most believable thing about the dark knight. She is his childhood friend and she is his boss.
*Reads title*
I want to hear proposition.
🤣🤣
Win.
Uh...half
@@JohnDoe-tm9wz You think you can steal from us and just walk away?
@@travishibachi Yeah...
The fall from the building scene with Batman and Rachel really bothered me. Cause i was thinking "doesn't he have a grappeling hook?". He could've caught her or could've gotten back up with it. He left the Joker with a room full of civilians for his selfish gains. And Joker just....left? What?!
I think Batman Begins was a far more balanced movie. Glad to see that someone else recognized that the new Bond movies don't gel
I don't think Rob knows about Batman Begins. He thinks Batman's ninja stealth skills are a plot hole instead of something they spent a big chunk of a movie establishing.
@@thomasjoyce7910 he's taking out the league then loses to goons
@@ghostofdeath663 he didn't take out the league
@@ghostofdeath663 He got lucky with an explosion and easily flammable wood.
begins is underated cause its slow and is a origin story people don't really know unless they read the comics and of course its not about joker
18:40 Forgive me if this has been covered, but a big part of the story (Dent's downfall) is that a number of Gordon's police officers are corrupt and taking orders from the mob/Joker.
Yeah, its clearly shown in the film. Dent even goes after corrupt police officers, Rob even uses 2 scenes of him doing this. But in the video he either avoids this or didn't notice
That just adds to the nonsense. Why would these corrupt officers fall in line with the Joker? Money? Corrupt cops would already be earning money from the mob, who they already have a relationship with. Would they really double-cross the mob for this clown? Surely the Joker would be most vulnerable to corrupt cops double-crossing him? If he has managed (for no reason at all) to have enticed these cops, then what are the mentally ill guys for? This is glossed over because any explanation doesn't make sense. The Joker's sudden grip on the city is a deeply flawed premise from the start.
@@ZeroFilmClips mob ties threatening your family? End of the day most simpleton "innocent" business will simply listen to to threats and do what they are told.
@@ZeroFilmClips There's a fan theory that Nolan's Joker is the main character in Fight Club, which would explain his connections to important people and his influence on the mentally insane.
@@ZChronicNebula That's even more and more absurd, how could Joker, a single who cares not for anyone, achieve this level of mind manipulation on multiple people? Even figures like Hitler pretended to fight for "their people".
You keep mentioning about how Batman can just disappear without being detected, despite not having superpowers. Have you not read the comics, seen the shows or Batman Begins? He was trained in stealth, specifically by the League of Assassins in this continuity. Him being able to blend in with the dark is his most common skill.
9:01 Gordon knew that there were moles in his department. The less people know that he survived, the better. Faking his death also lessened the chance that his family would be targeted next. At least, before Harvey went insane...
11:13 I've worked in banking for nearly 20 years, several of which involved doing branch ops, audits, and vault keeping. Vault security is obviously a big thing for me, so I always laugh at how unrealistic bank movie heists are. I've literally written essays in TH-cam comments sections of other videos, breaking down the logistics and how a full-blown Hollywood-style bank heist just wouldn't work. I can post it here if you want. The Dark Knight is no different. Also, "...unless they were stupid." Trust me when I say this: Most bank robbers are, in fact, stupid.
12:41 Other people have mentioned this, but he does have a gadget built into his glove; you can hear the whirring sound. But yeah, the thug should've had the gun forced from his hands or been knocked off balance.
16:11 "It seems that this was supposed to be funny, but I think having a pencil jammed through someone's eye into their brain is a little bit too nasty to be a joke." Uh, Rob? That's the _entire point_ of The Joker; he's supposed entertaining and horrifying at the same time. He's a mass murderer dressed up like a clown. What did you expect? Him dropping Rachel off of the building? Horrifying. Him doing after Batman tells him to let her go? Hilarious. And that pencil trick was way more believable than Joker's pen assassination in Batman Returns. It's not even the most ridiculous thing he's done. He once poisoned the fish in Gotham harbor and turned them into Joker Fish just so he could trademark his own food brand. Poisoning fish is terrible, but that a monster like him actually went downtown to the copyright office to matter-of-factly do the paperwork is hilarious.
17:30 The only way this could've worked is if he slashed down into Gambol's neck, or slashed up into his brain. I'm betting on the latter, but it's impossible to tell due to the camera angle.
18:28 The Joker didn't just have his own henchman, but utilized Sal Maroni's moles, Wuertz and Ramirez, as well. They worked in the same building as Commissioner Loeb, thus providing opportunities to poison his drink. They also had access to the case files, hence the Joker card. Joker's reliance on the moles is demonstrated just seconds later when The Joker uses Wuertz to access the party at Wayne Tower. Seriously, go back and watch the scene when he first gets inside.
19:32 Bruce intentionally acts this way to throw off suspicion of him being Batman. Seriously, it's saved his life more than once. Presenting himself as the vain, self-absorbed, a little out-of-his-depth, socialite is common facet of Batman stories seen in all mediums.
22:40 Again, he's using the mob's resources. Just because the one guy Harvey captures and interrogates is a paranoid schizophrenic doesn't mean they all are.
29:12 This is actually quite accurate, especially for Batman; you should try watching Batman: The Animated Series, Justice League/Unlimited, and Batman Beyond to watch this play out with his character arc over several decades of time in-universe. The idea you mention at 29:38 also happens to a certain extent with some characters in Batman Beyond and Return of the Joker , but it's also examined with Robin's insecurity of trying to live up to the mantle in Young Justice.
32:02 It's hinted early on that Harvey isn't as stable as he appears; he mentions that he's aware that Gordon's men have a nickname for him, and he and the audience only find out that the nickname is Two Face. The bright, upstanding, law abiding citizen is how he presents himself, but his more violent tendencies are hiding beneath the surface. Him going crazy solely due to Rachel's death is indeed contrived. In the comics continuity, he had an abusive childhood; his mentally ill father chose to beat him or not by flipping a coin. Harvey ends up being diagnosed with bipolar disorder and paranoid schizophrenia (the kind of mind the Joker attracts!) and ends up being fixated on a coin to make all his decisions.
And yeah, I totally hated how Batman took the blame at the end. The coverup never should've happened. But if they did have to lie about it, they could've easily pinned it on one of The Joker's men.
it's still awful, and the there are still plot holes in all those points you made
My reaction when I first watched it - 10/10 second viewing 7/10 third viewing 4/10 fourth and final viewing - 2/10 . This film deteriorated over years for me from childhood nostalgia to nonsensical melodrama .
LOL 👌🏼
exactly, people are still blinded by their memories
@The movie kingdom T.L.G 😂
It gets 6/10 for Heath Ledger alone
19:27 You don't understand as you're not familiar with Batman but he acts this way on purpose as to appear very unlikely to ever be "the Batman" to the public. In these scenes he's trying very much not to appear as "the hero" so by your own words, his behavior in the scene is accomplishing its purpose perfectly.
He still an unlikable douche, that’s not a valid point, there are other ways than this
It's something from the comics or it's just your interpretation? Because if it's from the comics your argument it's not valid. Bruce actually seems to enjoy his rich boy life. In the movie it's a scene where he has a whole boat full of models. In Batman Begins he even buys a hotel. It's a character flaw. I get it. But your argument it's not solid for me.
@@cappedminer369 like?
@@eem2wavy133 like the examples in the video. What do you think ???
In 2009, I fell 40 ft. through a skylight onto concrete. I was told by many surgeons I should not have survived that fall. I broke my femur, my foot, my elbow, wrist & hand. I broke my back, 23 fractures in my skull, blood clots in my brain and I was in a coma for 4 days. No way could that gangster survive have the distance in that fall. In fact, Batman and the girl would not have survived their fall. You ruined this movie for me. Thanks.
I thought the film was decent, but with Nolan movies, I always feel an emptiness, no emotion, no good philosophy etc, great visuals, but no soul. Please do a video on Inception.
@Daniel Jaramillo LOL Intended emotion doesn’t always come through…
@Daniel Jaramillo Sounds like it'd be good and convincing, but it doesn't work on me. That said, I find Batman Begins to be basically the best of Nolan's.
@Daniel Jaramillo It’s my something, but it is not my or anybody’s problem. :7
@Daniel Jaramillo 😂
Agree with you. Nolan’s batman movies seem “good and perfect” but I barely feel any feeling for the characters and stories.
Same with his new movie Tenet, empty and emotional less
"Hello 911? I'm a bus driver, and the bus in front of me just drove out of a bank. It was covered in debris. Maybe it was involved in a robbery. License plate is SC 812. Weird that they left any identifying marks on the bus, right?"
"What is your present location and destination?"
"Northbound on Avery towards Holbrook Elementary."
"We received reports of a robbery in progress near that location. Are you moving right now?"
"No, traffic is pretty bad."
"OK, we have a squad near your location. Sit tight."
THE END
God this movie is fucking dumb. And it has the fucking gall to take itself more seriously than almost anything I've ever seen in my life. HOW DOES NOBODY GET THIS? WHY DOESN'T ANYBODY CARE?
the script writers think that the audience is too distracted to pick up on the issues
absolutely, idk how people say it's a shame how some people never seen it
I’ve never seen a negative review of a movie that I like that I agree with so much
Hahaha, quality comment.
@@collativelearning dark knight is a film i have seen so many times and when i was a kid i gave it like a 9.5 and now i barley give it a 7.5...its enjoyable but its so flawed in so many aspects if you actually use your brain..one of my complaints is a nitpick but its like one of 100 complaints i have and its one of the smallest that no one else has ever said but it proves how dumb the film is as an adult...when barbara gordon thinks her husband is dead and batman is there not only am i not clear if batman knows if jim is dead cause thats never made clear later when jim appears and catches joker when batman crashes and is knocked out..still have no clue if he knew jim was alive but she yells at him that this is his fault just for some tension and emotional stakes at that point of the film for the audience to feel which batman if he does know that jim is faking would not take to heart at all making the moment meaningless looking back and thus just filler that adds nothing on rewatch because its not like something batman grapples with that he caused jim's death cause he did not force joker to do what he did and he may know hes not dead not sure about that still and he did not cause jim to do that for harvey..it was his choice....but also she is insane blaming him for her cop husband for dying in duty saving a public figure...which is his job...that one moment fails on every level because how is it batman's fault anyways?..again this is a 1 out of 100 mistakes this film made...and its a small one...its not like joker killed the cop because batman will not reveal his id..he is going after harvey..jim just jumped in the way....cause its his job to...his job is dangerous pre batman in gotham of all cities...he could die anyday pre batman for not being corrupt and trying to change the city..i am sure they told her the truth about his death and i get shes unstable cause its so sudden but it just comes off as lazy writing to me...i look back and laugh at her because that emotion comes out of nowhere..maybe if earlier in the film theres a small line between her and jim where she has concern look on her face and she says you know one day batman may get you killed and then jim smirks and walks away..thats all it takes but the film is too lazy to even do that for 5 seconds so her being mad comes off as insanity and not in character same for why she left in dark knight rises...and took his son...a scene of him ignoring her concern over batman causing his safety harm could lead into us understanding why she left gordon in the next film off screen inbetween...during peace times...again flawed film...you can say they want the audience to be tricked by the gordon reveal later when hes alive but again did batman know or not and if not why should we care?..that just seems like tricking us for no reason and its not earned and on rewatch it ruins the scene cause we know hes not
While I think some points are nitpicking or lacking suspension of disbelief, I agree with the majority of the points. TDK isn't as perfect as I initially believed. The bus filling in the gap in between the other busses, after the bank heist always bothered me.
@@collativelearning is it quality just because he agrees with you, or because it is actually good quality?
@@charlesthorndike2702 Some parts were nitpicking but man they made crack up. But he does bring up goods points. The film is trying too hard to be serious and atleast imo that's kinda hard for me get behind. For me atleast it's because of Batman himself. It's trying to be realistic, but in a sane world, a butler would use what power his has to get his billionaire boss mental help.
From a fantasy point of view it's awesome! From an objective one when actually thinking about it, it's psychotic. No sane person would choose to dress as a bat and fight crime. I know i'm in the minority , but I can only suspend my disbelief so much. If the film didn't try to take itself so seriously I could buy it.
Re ‘scene logistics’ you forgot that after the fall from the party and land on the car, joker and thugs are still in the building above them and would still need to exit the building on street level. It’s just glossed over.
ReservoirFrog. That's a good point! Didn't think about that before. Batman could just wait in the lobby, lol. I read on the FAQ on IMDb that Joker and his goon may have stolen the helicopter that Bruce arrived in, though.
The whole point of Wayne’s playboy persona is to throw people off his scent as a brooding crimefighter.
They go out of their way to show this in the movie as well.
shonenlad one .... and then he takes them to his pad Patrick Bateman style... except he doesn’t do that. It’s all just a public display. A show. In fact he’s obviously playing a fake character.
I was going to say Bruce Wayne's public persona is basically Patrick Bateman. 😁
I agree that's the idea, but its totally unnecessary!
@@MrThehardway no it’s not he just explained why it is necessary he’s faking it because he doesn’t want suspicion
Regarding Batman's voice - Kevin Conroy from Batman: TAS has the best Batman and Bruce Wayne voices. Distinctive and perfect for both, this is what other actors should aim for when playing Batman / Bruce Wayne.
I think the 30 minute cartoon was a much more effective format for the subject matter. Batman animated was really the best superhero rendition, and doesn't get the credit it deserves. It continues to influence media even today. It clearly was a huge inspiration to the "MCU" in many ways, most notably in bringing a shared superhero universe to screen. Having just watched the new "Invisible Man" film, it brought to mind the BTAS episode "See no Evil". Even shared the actress Elisabeth Moss.
@Erich Of course, Conroy has better Batman voice, his a VOICE ACTOR.
Best on screen? Affleck. The device he has is a more realistic tool to use to disguise your voice.
One subtle thing is that his voice is the Batman voice. He puts on the overly friendly voice when hes speaking in public as Bruce but if he's in private with Dick or Alfred and he's not wearing the Batman suit he uses his regular voice, which is also Batmans voice.
@@gohanson27 Funny joke.
I used to love the dark knight trilogy as a teen but then I realized how dumb it was by trying not to be anything like its comic book counterpart. It doesn't want to be a superhero movie. It's innately silly but tries to be so realistic. There's a difference in being grounded and being realistic. Nolan goes for realism. Also Nolan has his characters speak as if they're in philosophy class instead of having a normal conversation. I also laugh at how batman speaks now. It's ridiculous. I thought he was supposed to frighten his enemies not make them laugh. Also Nolan or someone involved forgets that part of Batman's appeal is his intelligence. Batman hardly does anything on his own in Nolan's world. He's given everything.
Nothing wrong with it trying to be realistic. You just need to get over the "this guy's dressed like a bat " and give the movie a chance. Just because it's based on a superhero IP doesn't mean thst it necessarily has to make light of itself
That's what I like about Matt Reeves' Batman. The world is clearly unrealistic, but there are grounded characters. Batman is grounded, suit included, in a fantastical world. Same thing with Riddler. He's a psycho 4channer in a fantastical world.
In Nolan's movies, these are just terrorists in a normal world. Soldiers in a normal world. Businessmen in a normal world.
It's much cooler to have grounded aspects be in a fantastical world, and it also allows the goofier aspects of Batman to be logical within the film's world, and not detrimental.
@The Official Verne The Turtle TH-cam Channel matt reeves batman is everything that's wrong with nolans movies amped up to 100000, it's absolutely atrocious
@@HunterMagunter I don't see how.
He's an actual detective, the voice is way more tolerable, the action is way better, and it's clearly taking itself a lot less seriously.
Just look at Colin Farrell's performance. No director who wasn't looking to do something hokey would allow overacting like that in a serious film.
Reeves loves the 66' Batman. It's clearly an homage to that self-awareness hidden underneath the grunge of modern superhero flicks in a semi-fantastical world.
@@theofficialvernetheturtley338 it felt like it was made by a 15 year old going through an emo phase
11:30 - to this point here, the clown you paused on *does* figure it out and attempts to take control and become last man standing. The moment he asks "where's the alarm guy?" and the one cracking the safe admits he was told to execute him while on the job, he figures it out. No excessive dialogue needed, we get it from this exchange.
AND the bus is due to smash through those doors, which the Joker takes advantage of by stalling him.
In the '90s Batman animated series, Dent was shown to have multiple personality disorder and anger issues before his accident that makes him Two-Face. That made sense, but this film doesn't.
It’s better then Batman forever two face.
@@spider-manunknown9193 both portrayals suck anyways
@@spider-manunknown9193 at least he still had multiple personalities in Batman forever
Sometimes animated superheroes stories are much better than live action versions and what's crazy is not only are they better sometimes you wish writers would just do that instead of making everything serious and dark.
Hard to watch in theater. Everytime Batman started talking my wife burst out in laughter.
let’s not kick bale too hard because I distinctly remember Val Kilmer Batman doing the same sort of thing in an earlier film, maybe not as much.
Also, I don’t remember them having Bale’s voice sound as weird in Batman Begins, except for a couple scenes. It’s like they decided to turn it up to 11 throughout the sequels.
Michael Keaton did well enough without having his voice sound so altered. When He snarls “I’m going to kill you” to the joker, that comes off as totally authentic, pissed off nuts. There was nothing funny about it at all. you really believed he was about an inch from beating joker to death and then he finally kills joker.
Funny how Bale sounds more like a tough guy but he doesn’t kill joker. Actions speak louder than weird words?
Killing joker is against Batman’s character he admits it himself so that’s not bales fault
Kilmer’s Batman voice was better
@@Galvatronover Yeah Yeah Yeah. “Batman doesn’t kill rule”.... yet he literally killed like 20+ league of shadow members in the previous movie, caused Ra’s al Ghul’s death, most likely caused the death of civilians by making Gordon use the batmobile to fire at the train tracks (which made the train fall and crash into a parking lot areas where lots of park car were at.. and caused the bridge that the train tracks were on to fall..), killed Two-Face, etc.
@@commonsenseguy7654 those all could easily be justified. (But I’m not going too because this is somthing that’s been happening for a while not just the Nolan films have yeah seen man of steel)
@@commonsenseguy7654 oh my god thank you. people complain too much about Michael Keaton's Batman killing people. When he's killed countless in the comics and several future movies and video games.
Keaton's Batman is the #1 for me
Right on with the first complaint listed - "Why so serious?" The over-the-top self-importance, and morbid nihilism of many comic book movies has been driving me crazy for years. (And the same with the recent dark Bond movies!)
How is there anything nihilistic about this film? Unless you mean Joker's expectations, which are dashed and met with a cheesy narrative that all you have to do is inspire people and they'll act like superheroes (the idea that Gotham's fate hangs on Harvey Dent's reputation is absurd).
AND dark Star Trek. And dark Star Wars, and Dark ...
I think the Joker has planned out the things he does meticulously and carefully. And that he is putting up a act of him being chaotic and crazy.
Take for example the bank robbing scene, It seems he places the bags of money in a specific spot near the doors where the bus is supposed to drive through and he stands far away from the doors behind the bags as not to get run over. Before the bus backs up through the wall, you can see that Joker checks the time to see how much time he has before the bus comes, so starts distracting the other robber with how the Joker is supposed to kill the bus driver to draw attetion away from the doors as he sidesteps in a way to get the other character to move into position where he will get run over by the bus that is supposed to arrive at a specific spot at a specific time.
Another example is the scene with the Joker and Harvey Dent in the hospital where the Joker talks about how he is a "agent of chaos", and where he puts a revolver into Dent's hands he keeps his finger on the hammer of the revolver so it cant fire even if Dent tried to shot him.
One more example is the ferries where he had a detonator in his pocket incase his plan failed, And he also says dont worry i came prepared.
To me its seems like he is lying to everyone to make him seem like this crazy unpredictable person, when he has infact planned everything meticulously. He tries to corrupt Batman the whole movie, but he also had Dent as a backup plan incase he failed to do so.
Yes and he lies about how he got his scar one was because his father and the second was because of his wife. I'm sure the third one where batman hit him before he tells the reason would be another made up origin hence it clear he is lying
Like Thanos he lies. But in contrast, the Joker lies to others, not to himself.
ColorOfOutOfSpace@. I think the specific term is Villain Sue.
@@orangecrushaa One of the other scar origins is that he's a former soldier who got caught in a bomb blast, but he only implies that version vaguely in a quick aside (which is why most seem to think it's probably the true origin).
I feel the same about the pencil scene. I always thought it wasn't a regular pencil because he planned to kill that guy.
12:10 That school bus thing always did bug me.
It drives me fucking nuts every time I see it.
We were so hyped with the heist didnt notice how unrealistic it is
I am not a fan of this film but I will actually defend this scene. Later in hospital segment we see that joker escapes in a school bus so maybe before the bank robbery the joker had already somehow hijacked big number of school buses? Those school buses then acted as decoys. For instance, each bus went in difference direction, then it would have been much harder for police to track the joker's bus.
@@Tor_kor so nobody on the street noticed the bus parked halfway through the bank
Also, the bus clearly doesn't even hit the guy. He's 3 feet away from it when he falls. It it doesn't even look like the fall was that bad. If the bus is going to hit the guy, then why not have them stand nearer the exit, and have it completely run him over? Because Nolan couldn't be bothered. That "F**k it, that'll do" attitude in Nolan's shots and set ups is astounding.
After they fell off the building, why didn’t Bateman go inside and wait in the lobby for the joker to leave?
Batman only saves Rachel or Selina in these films. No one else
its really painful that how many characters forcefully turned into retardeds just to make joker look more competent
@@barisbal7782 Agree. There are many plot convenience in this movie.
How do you know they left via the lobby? More cynical picking in a movie that can easily be justified with some creative freedoms.
Who's Bateman?
You hit on some excellent points -- some of which I've noticed and have bugged me as well -- number one was how every single one of Joker's plans were all implemented all too effectively and timely and perfectly, with every single one of his underlings not messing up in the slightest, despite the intricacies and complexity and variability of situations of such plans. This, above all, really took me out of the movie, especially on watching it in theaters on opening night. I left the theater more frustrated about this than excited about what I had just watched. But I've come to love the film with repeated viewings, primarily because of its greatest strengths that you cover in the first video.
If you haven't seen the HISHE of this movie yet, there's a few things you mentioned that they strongly call out -- especially how he saves Rachel from falling to her death, and how jarring it is that immediately after it shows they're miraculously safe and completely uninjured, it just cuts immediately to the next scene -- probably the worst, most cliff-hanging edit in the whole movie. What about Wayne's hijacked party?? All those guests held hostage by Joker and his thugs?? Did they just see themselves out and call it a night?? Did they start killing off guests one by one because no one remaining would produce Harvey Dent?? Plot hole big enough to sink Texas.
Oh my God, it's...it's almost like it comes down to a matter of opinion.
Replying to a 2 year old comment with one of the worst counter arguments on the planet.
Thank god you typed that. You’ve solved everything.
The no blood or bullet wounds in any of his movies is a question I always ask
so it can be a 12
I was going to say the same as the comment above, except pg-13 in the US. Make a loooot more money that way on superhero movies
Not only what those other two people said, but also so it can be shown in countries that dont allow blood in their films (China. Its also why a lot of the blood splatter in movies now is CG, so they can be edited out for the Chinese releases).
Plenty of 12a movies have blood, swearing, violence the lot, look at Bond for example, plenty of bullet wounds
@@starwarsroo2448 short of some exceptions I know egregious amounts of blood are a no go in pg-13, so maybe Nolan just doesn't want to have to fight back and forth with the censors by trying to include blood
It's a self conscious superhero movie that's ashamed of being a superhero movie
The perfect way to describe it.
It's not a Superhero film at all as Batman is not a superhero he is a vigilante.
Same with Dredd: it's a police action satire that doesn't want to be a police action satire. And it calls a flare "hot shot" for some pretentious reason.
@@steveetienne Bullshit reasoning
@@1krani Dredd felt more like a Paul Verhoeven movie. It does the genre justice in so many ways
Fully agreed, I had a lot of problems with this film. The film's plot points are contrived to the extreme, everything feels forced and unnatural. It also feels as if they tried to cram two movies into one
No it doesnt. It's one of the most organic superhero films. You have no idea what you're talking about.
@@darkyknight9788 ok so please explain to me why I'm wrong
@@rockys201 Oh I would love to take you to task on this. Already started correcting others in the blind agreement with the video.
Go ahead and tell me what parts were forced or unnatural. I will show you why they were not. This video is from a person who is biased against super hero films and doesnt even realize that Nolan clearly stated his films werent meant to be realistic but a "heightened reality" that only goes far enough to allow a Batman story to be told well.
Also lets hear your forced and unnatural evidence.
@@darkyknight9788 why do you think he's biased against superhero movies? It could maybe the case that he's a bit sick of them at this point.
For me TDK has far too many conveniences, especially with the Joker. Not only are his plans way too perfect, but he has plans on top plans on top of plans. It doesn't feel like heightened reality, it all just goes too far to be believable and the film is so jam packed that it never gives itself a chance to breathe and it's always in a huge rush to get to the next big set piece. That's ok, but the film just seems to think it's being a lot more clever than it is. In truth it's just a very pretentious film
@@rockys201 Lol you project quite a bit. You're the pretentious one here that doesnt understand the character or the film. The Joker doesnt have perfect plans and he isnt a prophet. He has cards up his sleeve that he chooses to use in the right moment. Go ahead and tell me what his perfect plan was and I will show you why that wasnt planned at all.
Also when he was doing his Shining theory of Danny being molested by Jack he said "If you cant handle it, go watch a braindead batman film". He gets almost everything wrong in this video because he is blinded by his bias. So are you.
Watching this has made me realize Batman The Animated Series might be more realistic or believable than The Dark Knight. Highly recommend giving it a watch by the way, especially Heart of Ice and the pilot On Leather Wings. It's a sophisticated show that does a lot of throwbacks to early 1900s pop culture, you've got film noir, mobsters, monsters out of pulp magazines, actual detective work (it's nice to see honestly, Batman IS the 'World's Greatest Detective' but we never see him do much of this even in a lot of the comics).
You even bring up how unrealistic it is how Harvey switches from sane rational person to psychopath. In the two parter Two-Face from Batman TAS, it's revealed he's seeing a therapist and has had psychological issues (stemming from his childhood) that ends up turning him into Two-Face after pushed to the extreme. So once again, just more proof the ANIMATED Batman show is somehow far more realistic.
Okay... did you pay attention to Dent's arc in TDK at all? Because he was shown to be unhinged even before death of Rachel Dawes. Remember when he kidnapped one of Joker's henchmen showing a capacity to break under pressure? It's not like Dent was some flawless hero up until his disfigurement and death of his girlfriend.
@@moonlitebrite9317 One questionable thing to try and save someone isn't as convincing as how Dent was in TAS but thats my opinion. I really like TDK mind you.
@@SynthwavelLover Huh, one questionable thing? Even if it just happened once, it's NOT something to gloss over especially given the context. Just because they didn't go with the "Big Bad Harv" route doesn't mean it's less convincing.
Why do you seem to be looking down on animation ?
It’s such a great show.
I remember discussing it on the IMDB forum, and criticising it similar to your points. Back then it was impossible to have a rational discussion, the hype was just too intense lol
Nolan tards are impossible to reason with lol
@@thewhiterex7327 Agree
Really enjoy your videos rob especially your essays on Kubrick's films, but as a batman fan I can't agree with you on some points.
Interesting watch though
Thanks for the non-triggered response
@@collativelearning would love to see a video on the prestige rob ....I've recently been showing my dad your shining videos during lockdown...sparking healthy debate between father and son 👍🏻
@@collativelearning "triggered"
you're cringe bro
Djust thiŋk ov dhe grejt kriminalz ov histoяy: fяom кoбa-кhan, tu roZenvelt, tu hyphenated-british winston-ginger∵
Yf dhe massez hæd byn williŋg tu abændon dheir woršhip ov dhose figurez vvven dhey staяted doiŋg бad stʌff, dhen, y/knōw, dhose figurez wouldn/t hav sow mučh poШer, ænd wouldn/t hav kauzed az mučh damadge∵
Some triggered fanbois here, I see.
I don't think the joker believes the world can't be controlled, he believes that morality is a lie that's only as good as when it's convenient for people.
He doesn't say morality is a lie. He says that people are only as moral as long as it is convenient to them. In the end he was proven wrong, moral people do exist in the world
The moment that pretty much kills the movie for me is the bizarre scene when we first meet Harvey as he interrogates a guy on a stand. That whole scene is a Bugs Bunny cartoon, only Bugs would have had a better one-liner to end on.
Hmmm, how exactly is it Bugs Bunny cartoon? You see a lot guns and courtrooms in a Bugs Bunny cartoon?
Moonlite Brite to be the devils advocate there are plenty of guns in bugs bunny as his main nemesis is Elmer Fudd a hunter that chases his with a shotgun but I do agree the Harvey scene never sat well with me although i love TDK as a whole
I rEcOmMeNd ThAt YoU bUy AmErIcAn.
@@jeremiahrodriguez9029 Sure, there are guns in BB cartoon, but that doesn't automatically make it an equivalent to a Bugs Bunny. It's just a weird comparison that makes NO sense. As for Harvey scene, what about it didn't sit well with you? It's a homage to the comics except they replaced acid with a gun.
@@moonlitebrite9317 I thought it made perfect sense. Its exactly correct. Its something Bugs Bunny would say. Sorry you dont see that. It was both true and funny.
When Batman lands on the white truck why does it stop immediately as/before he falls on it? Wouldn’t the car continue to move a little longer due to delayed reaction time and brake physics?
Yes, lol
You mean Bateman
It always bothered me that when he lands on the roof of the vehicle in the garage, it just stops dead in its tracks.
Love your videos,Rob.
Because it looks cooler and we can rationalise that as Scarecrow got hit he slammed the breaks. You could nit-pick ANY film at this level.
@@psychomantis183 well i though that was the point to a video analysis of the movie. Take it easy,pal. I'm nitpicking it because it doesn't make sense.
@@n800001 I just gave you a reason as to how it could make sense. And nitpicking such things is NOT what film analysis is about.
@@psychomantis183 And who are you to say what film analysis should or shouldn't be? Did you just get out of film school or are you a director who hasnt directed anything yet?
It is a superhero movie, it is normal that it has fantasy elements, but the movie takes itself very seriously, that is the problem. Great video.
being serious and being realistic are not the same thing, a film can take itself seriously, but not try to be realistic
That isn't a problem. The narrator of this video's just too much of an "adult" to allow himself to be immersed by the story
Pomposity describes a lot of Nolan's films especially when within that film it follows certain action film tropes.
I wish he'd go back to making thrillers like Memento or Insomnia again. Those are my favourite movies of his
lol im dying. i never noticed how long that table is
I would watch a video about all the longest boardroom tables in movies m.th-cam.com/video/n1y_igH7UUA/w-d-xo.html
Wayne Enterprises is probably the largest conglomerate in the DCU. And it might have something to do with not wanting all the branches to know what the other parts of the company are doing. Having a huge board probably helps prevent people from keeping up with each other and knowing what's happening.
I have a slight feeling it's a nod to the dinner scene in Burton's Batman.
Lol "Scene Ruiner". Some great points in this vid.
My two main problems with pretty much every Nolan film:
1. Convoluted plots with an over reliance on exposition.
2. As you said, they take themselves way too seriously and actually end up coming across as corny as a result.
Yeah
If you listen carefully, it's not merely that Batman is putting on a voice, there is some kind of modulation added in, which is meant to be diegetic. I always assumed without needing to be explicitly told that batman had some gizmo that altered his voice in real-time by generating an interference vibration in his throat so that any microphones wouldn't be able to cross-reference his voice print.
I agree with what you’re saying about the movie taking itself too seriously. That’s why I think Sam Raimi was a great choice to direct the Spiderman movies because his style is very comical yet it can be serious simultaneously. There’s a really great balance with his movies.
Yeah you're right about your observation, but Spiderman as a character is not Batman so the mood will be different. Spiderman as a character was always like that, full of quips and lighthearted ish. Not so much with Batman as he has evolved.
Definitely he pulls it off in army of the dead. You are able to laugh and take it seriously at the same time.
So refreshing to hear somebody pointing out flaws in this movie. Nolan is competent, but is overrated. His success in the industry comes from having weak competition.
8:12. This was the opening shot in the movie and when it came on in the cinema everyone gasped. It threw us into the movie. It was shot with IMAX cameras and I watched it on IMAX. I think you don’t appreciate these aerial shots because you saw them on a tv or monitor. When the movie is viewed the way it was designed for, these shots are incredibly evocative and bring Gotham to life.
This isn't Gotham this is literally new york or chicago in dkr. Gotham got its life in batman begins.
I find it baffling that you would find this premise to be silly to the point of you not being able to take the movie seriously, but you love The Thing and several other movies with, let's say, eccentric premises.
12:12 also no one not even the previous buses notice the bus coming from the building with bits of rubble on it.
I always took the convoy of buses as part of the heist, as in, he knew the buses came at that time. It’s not just the odds. The strange thing is that the buses behind let the rubble covered bus into traffic. The airplane collecting Batman by skyhook is in the air legally, but is piloted by smugglers, meaning they are up for collecting him by skyhook for money and are probably given a time to pass by the building.
Batman willing to torture but not kill is probably to do with him representing US government abuse of power, hence the use of mobiles to spy on Gotham later.
I’m not a fan of Dark Knight due to it being boring when Joker is offscreen but I do think you are looking for more issues than there actually are.
Haha, yes they do. the driver behind would see the heist bus crashing out of a bank!!!
From the whole concept of the joker character, I took it that joker hired goons to drive buses around as a distraction. The idea being like many heist films were the police find it difficult to spot the offending vehicle from a follow. Did we ever see school kids in those buses?
@John Mateus But a school bus pulling out from a destroyed bank, and he shrugs that off? I assumed (like others here) that the convoy of buses were in on it, otherwise it doesn't make sense.
@@collativelearning The average city bus driver has two concerns though A) whether the people getting on adds up to his cash box and B) how long until his shift ends.
@M well car breaking down would be very unlikely
Never thought someone could have an uniquely original POV about this movie after all this time.
i think the dark knight is a great film but its not a 10/10
@@razkable its not a 7/10
? Many people share his idiotic view. You don’t have to like the film but these “faults” are idiotic.
@@suchalad dark knight is a 7.5...for all its positives it has a lot of negatives flaws and mistakes...for the record 95% of superhero films are 6 or worse so a 7.5 is high for that genre...objectively a good superhero film is a 6.5...good writing filmmaking requires thought and 99% of superhero films are about money not coherent correct writing...ruins every single one of them for me...the best one i saw as spiderman 2 just for consistency and even then its like a 8/10...and enjoyment wise like a 7.5...its very boring and strange or goofy and cringe on rewatch melodramatic but its the best superhero film i have seen made in real life...they really tried with it,...most of these films do not try..dark knight is no exception...endgame is the same thing
@@razkable Spiderman 2 is Cringe ?
The reason it was so serious is because the whole point was the idea if Batman existed in real life. These things wouldn’t be wacky in reality. And Batman’s entire training is stealth so that’s how he disappears and reappears
7:33 the entirety of The Dark Knight is shot, edited, and scored like a movie trailer. In fact, I blame The Dark Knight for Suicide Squad, which took that approach and turned it to 11. Once you notice that TDK feels like Nolan is scared to officially "start" the movie in case viewers get bored you can never un-see it. That's why the Blu-Ray is on my shelf gathering dust.
can you elaborate on how it is like a movie trailer?
Every movie has its flaws, The Dark Knight is no exception.
Doesn’t stop it from being amazing
TapWater exactly
@@natahndolar2142 ppl should stop acting like it is masterpiece
overrated
It’s the greatest movie of all time
Thanks for posting this. I have been pulling my hair out convincing so called movie lovers who rate this movie, how rubbish the dark knight movies are. Glad to know there is someone else out there that noticed how bad the writing is.
I'm going to respond the same way that I do to a lot of your videos -- I'm only a few minutes in (I'll probably edit with more thoughts when I'm further into the video) but right off the bat you say that superhero films "always have a childlike wish fulfillment element," and that therefore they should not take themselves too seriously. I think this is a dated opinion. For as long as people have told stories they have often had fantastical elements. The only difference is that the particular motifs of superhero films are a novel manifestation of that, and a manifestation which a generation ago was considered "for children," and which presently is being treated a little bit more seriously. But there's nothing inherent in the genre that makes it any different than a sci-fi film, or Greek myth. If you're willing to take those things seriously as stories, than you should be willing to take superhero films seriously as stories. I both respect you as a film analyst and agree that The Dark Knight is overrated (although my overall opinion of it is positive, unlike yours, I still agree that it's vastly overrated), but I often get a "kids these days" vibe from your videos about newer films. I think for instance there were probably a lot of people who were your age when Star Wars came out, and had a similar opinion. And they were probably making legitimate points, just like you are. There is a certain wish fulfillment aspect to the Force as well, for example. But accepting the Force as an aspect of the Star Wars setting is a part of the basic suspension of disbelief contract between Star Wars and it's intended audience. Star Wars isn't interested in satisfying people who can't get past it's inherent silliness because it simply wasn't made for those people. The same is true of a lot of your criticisms of The Dark Knight (although I will admit that it tries to be a lot darker than Star Wars does, the occasional "I am your father" scenes notwithstanding). And niether does the fact that kids are a crucial demographic in the Star Wars audience prevent it from also having some deeper themes (which you've analyzed in some of your videos).
Edit 1: You mentioned the use of movement in establishing shots in a pretty biased way. Nolan is utilizing a cinematographic technique to lend his film a sense of movement even in the slower bits -- the effect is a slightly more suspenseful film. Literal movement of the camera leads to a greater perception of narrative movement. Why is that necessarily bad? It's arguably an example of "intensified continuity cinema," "post-continuity cinema," or "chaos cinema," in the neologisms of various contemporary film theorists, but unlike other such trends (such as "shaky cam" action or "found footage" films), it does not make the shot any less clear. You could say that The Dark Knight should be getting it's suspense from the script, but in large part it is. Films use techniques of cinematography to establish a tone. That's all The Dark Knight is doing.
Edit 2: You say that your friends often agree with you on your points individually, but still like the film. I'm in a similar position with regard to most of your points -- when you're positively predisposed towards a film, then you often see some of its minor flaws rather as charming quirks. Batman's voice, for example, is the butt of many jokes in the fan community. As is, returning to my Star Wars comparison, the incestuous kiss between Luke and Leia. Or, to cite one of my favorite films, in Jurassic Park when the T-Rex breaks out if it's paddock, late in the scene there's a cliff right where the Rex made a hole in the electric fence. That cliff wasn't there before. It makes zero sense. But that's hardly relevant, I think, because most viewers don't notice on first viewing. I think that scene is one of the classic scenes in film history, despite this gaping continuity error. But if I didn't like Jurassic Park, I'm sure I would cite that as a reason why.
Edit 3: "Hence the hookers -- uh, I mean 'models'" -- lol, do you see why I think your perspective is biased? In the film they are models. You're implying a legitimate criticism here where there is none.
Edit 4: Again, you're nitpicking. The pencil trick scene establishes the Joker's character beautifully. It's difficult to be both intimidating and funny at the same time, but I think this scene achieves that. The "pencil trick" would be nigh-impossible in real life, yes... but the same could be said for any number of things in any number of action films. Real hand to hand combat, for instance, is far messier than it is portrayed in virtually any film. Countering punches precisely and consistently is not something it's even possible to master -- for reference, see any MMA fight. But having your action protagonist or antagonist be a better martial artist than is, in reality, humanly possible, is a motif endemic to the whole genre because such choreography is much more glamorous to watch. The Dark Knight is hardly unique in that respect, but you are being uniquely harsh in your criticism. Furthermore, you say that graphic violence can't be played for laughs... although you seem to like it when Tarantino does it. And Tarantino tends to show a lot more blood. You simply didn't like the joke because you don't like film. That's fine -- just be more honest about it rather than playing it off like an objective critique.
Edit 5: Gambol dropping from a mouth wound is something I noticed too, I'll admit that. But if you want to be needlessly strict in your standards of realism, then consider that in reality, many people faint in response to any number of things, including a simple blood test at the doctor's office. Granted, being a gangster is not for the faint of heart, but then again, who knows -- the joker had just scared the shit out of him, so Gambol at that point is probably having a physiological reaction, like an anxiety attack. We also don't see exactly what the joker did to him -- maybe he cut his face and then stabbed his neck. The camera cuts away quite intentionally -- Nolan's philosophy with the joker of course being that leaving certain things to the imagination can have a greater impact than showing them. Plus, the film needed to be pg13 -- you can view it as a compromise in the name of marketing towards kids, or a tasteful way of incorporating that requirement. This point has more merit than a lot of your points but I still think you approach this scene from quite a biased perspective -- it seems like you're not giving the film a chance.
At this point I'm just going to finish your video, and give some final thoughts, rather than addressing each point individually.
Edit 6: Yeah, your issue with the film is simple: you don't accept the premise. To an extent that can't be held against the film, I think. This film, like many films, requires some level of suspension of disbelief. Your nitpicks are often accurate (but not always -- it's obviously possible to slow down or accelerate yourself when sliding down an inclined plane, for example), from the standard of realism you're applying, at least. But the people who enjoy the film simply do not apply that standard. The thematic critiques are far more substantive but you barely touch on them. I do not agree with the pro-surveillance state message either, for example. I would have been more interested in a video chiefly exploring The Dark Knight's themes.
Good lord, this movie isn't worth this much time and effort. The simple facts are that the movie is a disaster in every way. It's unbearably pretentious, and note all of the parts pointed out in the video about the plot just not making any sense.
Damn, Dillon Walker! Way to tell it like it is! ----- BTW, I always figured that Joker stabbed up into the top of his mouth first, then cut through the side. That's how I've always interpreted Gambol's quick drop.
Agree Rob premise on superhero movies can't be serious is wrong and agree with a lot points the original comment said and there is a level of suspension of disbelief required in any batman but if you don't I agree the movie can be unrealistic and Rob point aren't wrong but he looking at it from a perspective that I think is off. I think first time I disagreed with Rob and appreciate his pov nonetheless
I agree with you on the pencil point and sort of agree with you on the point about superheroe films being serious, but the Gambol collapse was just stupid and your explanation seemed like a fan bending over backwards to defend something they love. It isnt really nitpicking to point out things that are blatantly stupid, suspending disbelief and lowering your IQ by 50 points from one minute to the next are not the same thing. What is your limit on this? Your point seems to be that in a work of fiction you can have literally anything happen. Well, yes and no, even in a work of fiction your world still must operate by certain rules to be compelling. If Batman leaped 30 ft horizontally through the air or Alfred delivered a roundhouse kick you surely would wonder what the writers were playing at? You seem to miss that Rob did make the point that if you are going to make a super serious superheroe film then these nonsensical moments are going to provoke more thought. Is this a dark, gritty movie where everyting about Batman is grounded in reality or a switch your brain off movie like Army of Darkness where we dont need to ask how a double barrel shotgun can fire half a dozen shots without reload?
@Awesome Welles Im pretty sure the tagline refers to the anarchic nature of the main villain and his attitudes towards society not to the laws of physics
I came to the realization a few years ago that live action comic book / super hero films don't work for me. They should stick to animation.
None have been good since Blade.
I think the problem is that the live action movies try to be realistic. Being live action is not the same as being realistic. But most live action movies try to be realistic and fail
I feel like Dark Knight was exciting for the first couple of watches. The more you see it, the closer you get to it, the more the cracks show up.
That's kind of like all of Nolan's films the Inception The Dark Knight I both saw in the theater I was blown away years later I went back to them and found them both to be boring and unwatchable, rewatchability is a characteristics of an incredible and classic film
@@highdesertsunset3011 The Prestige is brilliant yet entirely rewatchable, and better when you re-watch it!
Nolan's best films are Memento, Dunkirk, The Prestige and Insomnia. All really great and intelligent without being pretentious and over long.
@@sebastianfitzptraick7395 Dunkirk was arguably the most overrated film of his by far it's really not that good
@@sebastianfitzptraick7395 I never see anyone talk about Memento. I really love that one. The visual and sound aesthetics 👌
18:30 I thought the script made it clear that, at this point, the Joker has mafia backing. The same mafia that successfully snuck a gun into court and do have the high-society connections that are needed for some of these hi-jinx
He got so much wrong in this video. His eye for correlations is great, but his conclusions are very often moronic.
Collative Learning had better avoid Mask Of The Phantasm... because that is the best Batman film ever made...
And nothing he says can change that truth.
So true. For me it's, ironically as it is an animated movie made for kids, the most adult version of Batman. It's melodramatic, epic, humorous and the music is one of the best I've ever heard. Most underrated Batman movie and also the best for sure
@@DishonestEbe AND it's the only movie that has Bruce acknowledge that he doesn't know what the hell he's doing
Why should he avoid it? It’s a good animated film.
The point is that Mask of the Phantasm is a kids cartoon - It's allowed to be daft, it's not trying to be an film for adults.
@@nonautomaton6230 you know that the animation has more adult moments tjan the movies right
When I watched this in high school, yeah I took it seriously. Looking at it again now, the unbelievably god-like execution of joker's plots just bore me because "he's the joker" is my only reason to suspend disbelief.
Bit late to the discussion, but based on some of the comments, it does seem as though comic book movie fans treat criticism of their favourite movies as a personal attack. It reminds me of a line from 'the Big Bang Theory' in which one of the characters says "you don't have a personality, you just have a bunch of movies that you like"
This. its one thing to insult a movie, its another when you insult a fan base. This guy didn't attack anyone and simply said he didn't see it the way they do and the fans of this movie STILL insult him. When this movie came out 10+ years ago they would give death threats to those who even had the slightest nitpick such as "being a hair too long" for example. and yet funnily enough some of these same people claim themselves to be 'smart and critical thinkers because they absorb so much information'. Some things never change it seems.
18:35 because the mob has people everywhere…. DA’s office, police, court….. and Joker used their resources, like he did to have Dent and Rachel kidnapped…..did you actually watch the movie?????
I want to elaborate on your first point - being the film is too self-serious despite being about something inherently silly.
I only half agree.
I agree that TDK is too serious, not because comic books can't be serious - but because TDK rejects openly all of the inherent fantasy in not just the Batman comics, but comics in general.
It seems you implied that in order for a superhero film to help suspend disbelief, it has to call attention to itself in some way and say "See kids, it's not so serious. You're allowed have fun." I don't agree. In fact, I think too many superhero films feel lowkey ashamed of being superhero films and need to inject ironic and meta humor to make audiences feel better about watching superhero films.
It's all subjective and mileage may very, but a comic book film can be super serious, dark, grim etc. all it wants. What it has to do, imo, is get across the fact it's a comic book world. A dark superhero film can be like a dark sci-fi film or dark fantasy film - it can tackle heavy tones and subject matter as well as work within a fantastical world. In essence superheroes are really not much different than other fantasy characters like magical beings or alien races or whatever. If we can take that stuff seriously, we can take superheroes seriously.
Take Logan for example. It's R-rated, grim, and depressing. Yet it takes place in a subtle, futuristic world with shades of dystopian fiction sprinkled throughout. The world of Logan looks very much like our own - but a slightly sci-fied version.
TDK does not do this. TDK is just a crime thriller about a guy in a Bat suit and a criminal in clown paint. Gotham has no personality. It has no identity. It's just a stark, sterile looking city.
In TDK's attempt at grounding the mythos in as realistic a world as possible, ironically, the film ends up being something it's trying desperately to avoid: It' ends up being silly.
I’d that’s the case than shouldn’t the daredevil show be silly that takes place in new York
Having a fake character in a real life based setting has been done before
This doesn’t mean the story can have a serious tone
I completely agree with the essence of your argument. This is actually why as I’ve grown older I’ve grown to like Batman Begins more. Compared to the Dark Knight it has more of a sense of a heightened reality. It has more humor and is overall more fun than Dark Knight.
Okay, I understand the dislikes now, this is quite the shitshow
You have a bias against superheroes for some reason. Why are you stuck on the premise? Focus on the execution. Any premise can be pulled off well, no matter how insane. Just talk about where the movie fails at that, not about your own idea of the world doesn't mesh with a character's from this movie, or how you'd react to them if you saw them irl. That's irrelevant and subjective.
5:40 What's the ISSUE? What's wrong with Batman disguising his voice by doing a "bad clint eastwood" impression? How is that a problem with the movie? Just because someone sounds cringe when they try to disguise their voice, doesn't make it bad, it still makes sense. Best way that criticism holds any water is if it's directed against Christian Bale as a bad casting choice given his voice.
But he does also focus on the execution. Didn't you watch the whole video?
@@Ballardiandid you pay attention to his arguments they are bad and take into account for the explanations in the story
Harvey was already shown to be unstable when he going to toss a coin to decide if he should shoot him to get info on the joker
12:41 It seems he's using some tool to bend the weapon. At least I'm seeing something in his hand and harm in the next shot.
It still wouldn’t make sense how the enemy continues to hold onto the gun.
Indra Deus yes ik, it still wouldnt make sense because the enemy apparently has enough strength to still hold onto the weapon. In no scenario does that scene make sense
I saw Batman Begins many, many times. Three of those times in the theater. I saw Dark Knight exactly once in 2008 and not even once since.
same
I should watch Batman Begins again I remember it being rather enjoyable
LMAO I just took in: Batman falls a few stories onto a moving white van, obliterates the roof, knocks out its passengers, and manages to not receive any recoil damage.
Then later in the film, he and Rachel fall from a skyscraper onto a much smaller taxi. Not only do the two of them together cause much less damage on impact to the car, the driver inside is completely unharmed!
15:49 I don't like this scene because Ledger is doing like a cheesy monologue you might prepare and memorize for an audition in Hollywood. You almost expect him to end with: "aaaaaand SCENE". But it made a good first impression in the cinema.
You forgot to mention that landing on a van dosnt apply the brakes of said van
This is a fantastic analysis, especially the action stuff. Spot on.
Nah, he isn’t.
@@psychomantis183 fanboy
@@psychomantis183 no he is
I noticed several of the bad scene logistics back when I first saw the movie and to me the worst of them all is everything related to the Joker's "brilliant" plan of getting caught to break Lao out of jail.
How did the goons know at which altitude the helicopter was gonna fly when they put the rope across the street (only a few seconds before it happened no less, as if they just have access to any apartment in the city)? What if the helicopter had gone up and missed it? What if there had been a second helicopter?
When Batman blasts the car out of the way, how did he know it wasn't gonna kill anybody? It's a traffic jam, so you should assume that there's somebody in every car, plus carefree pedestrians crossing over since everything is standing still anyway. The motorbike ride through the mall has some similar issues, because humans will react in various ways when they see danger coming; some people just freeze up or procrastinate when they don't know in which direction to dodge, so it could have well happened that somebody tried to step back at the last moment while Batman could have decided to drive behind that person, hitting them in the end.
What if the Joker could NOT have provoked the cop in the interrogation room into a fight? He never could have gotten the upper hand and eventually gotten his phone call. And of course it's just all too convenient that the explosion kills or knocks out everybody except for the Joker and Lao.
As for the ships with the bombs, I also found it ridiculous that the civilians decide to take a vote when they very well know that any second somebody on the other ship could kill them. Also, after the one man holding the detonator puts it back, a few other people should have jumped up and "volunteered" to do it for him. FFS, there were children on board; wouldn't the parents be more okay with sacrificing a ship full of criminals (and some guards) to save their innocent children's lives?
Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed this movie and thought it was very entertaining, but it is indeed overrated. It's a good movie when you're willing to turn your brain off during the ride.
You've just articulated the exact reasons why I didn't view this movie as highly as many others have. I saw it on it's very first release day in IMAX and apart from some of the photography, I didn't feel the story grabbed me in the slightest. By contrast, I also saw Alien on its very first screening and when I walked out, I knew I'd seen a masterpiece. So much so that I went to see it again and again before it disappeared from the cinema circuit. Not so with The Dark Knight. Once was more than enough for me!
Yes, the movie almost did nothing for me. It was a dull and somewhat vacuous experience.
Batman is equally as insane as the Joker. They are two sides of the same coin. Bruce Wayne died with his parents, after that he lived only to fight crime. That's why Batman looks and sounds so crazy, it is funny, that's why Joker likes him so much.
And he bent that gun with a hydrolic device in his suit. You can hear the sound effect and see the device malfunction when he tries to use it to cut the side of the van.
Did the guy holding the gun have a machine vice for an arm? ;)
@@collativelearning I believe this to be a matter of mechanical leverage. He gripped the rifle so close to the end that he was at a mechanical disadvantage, so the weight of the man was enough to offset the force needed to bend the gun. Sure it’s not feasible with steel, but it might be with aluminum. We don’t know what the metal of the gun was. The criminal gang could have been experimenting with cheap flimsy weapons.
I’m sorry, I love your videos, you’re a genius. But critiquing Batman on the internet is like critiquing Muhammad in a mosque.
There is a comic where Bruce is really way more psycho and suffers from extreme traumatic depressions, and turns out ALFRED (who is more like a father who loves him above everything in the world and feels responsible) realizes Bruce can only be happy if he is fighting super-crimes....so he hires actors to pretend they are Riddler, Penguin, etc...and starts to play a cat-mouse game with Bruce, but eventually, Bruce defeats them, so Alfred himself, becomes the Joker, in order to save Bruce life (from a upcoming suicide due to depression).........quite a gang of psychopats!!!
@@collativelearning regarding physics, it is possible, if the leverage is produced on the same device........cosider this: Batman has one of the edges of the (presumebly) hydraulic lever in his palm, and the other part is in his forearm, with a pivot around his wrist line........there will be no pull on the other guy's arms (still.....all the weight of the pressure will be transfered on batman's arm........it is still a bit weird, since it requiers some spot to anchor the devise, but still, we are talking on why the weight didn't lifted the other guy or took the weapon out of his hands)......or, it could be the pressure being generated to close both parts on themselves (which will requier some sort of chain mechanism)....still, it is all a bit out of the hat.
Batman is not insane. That is a fairly modern concept by writers that did not understand the character.
This movie is so overrated. Everyone just locks themselves into a state of mind about it like a horde.
I completely agree, I had the highest expectations for this film and I found it very underwehlming. That scene with rachel falling and batman catching her and they land on a car and she's just like ''wow that was intense'' i mean what??? And that scene ends there, what happens to the joker? did he and his crew simply leave the party? Honestly Tim Burton's batman is faaaaaar better.
Batman returns is my favorite and in there you have similar things but they are done in a comical way that fits the tone of the movie, for example the part where catwoman falls and lands on a truck and she says ''saved by kitty litter'' although the truck is very conveniently passing through, it works because of the campiness of the film and for the nature of the character.
I agree! And not to mention that Batman would just leave without going after Joker... instead, the scene ends right there! Like wtf?
One of my biggest gripes though is why didn't they show Bruce tinkering with the batmobile, not necessarily saying what he's doing, but simply saying he's "upgrading it" to Lucius Fox.
Then when he crashes the tumbler and the bike comes out, it would have been mind blowing. Just a 3 to 5 minute scene that would show how intelligent Bruce really is instead of just vomiting cool shit just for the sake of being cool without giving context or explanations.
When Joker pulls the bus out of the bank, with all the debris falling off and such, what the heck is going through the mind of the bus driver behind him?
Probably oh shit is that guy ok
Not only that, but shouldn't the back end of the bus be all smashed up and the windows broken out? It just went through a freakin' WALL!
You missed the glaring plot hole, once BM and chick land on the car, they skip to the next scene. Leaving the Joker and his gang holding hostages in Bruce's penthouse. Seems like that needed to be addressed.
You're right about Batman taking the blame at the end and at the time I thought that it was stupid but just palmed it off as something that would play out in the next movie. And I dont know why they went over board with Batman's voice, it was perfectly fine and understandble in Batman Begins.
In Begins, Bale is doing the voice himself without any audio alterations in post production but doing the voice put a strain on his vocal cords.
@@redpillfreedom6692 oh ok, I didn't know that he was doing the voice in Begins.
Interesting video Rob, you made some excellent points here. I recommend you watch Batman The Animated Series because it manages to balance the comic book goofinees and seriousness. I still like The Dark Knight a lot as well as Batman Begins, TDKR was a massive disappointment though.
The animated Batman series from the early 90s is the best incarnation in the view of this humble but darkly handsome observer.
Agreed. the 60's show is hilarious entertainment. Get me the shark repellent spray.
@@collativelearning The 60's movie started the trend of Batman desperately trying to dispose of a bomb. It happens often in the films.
I wish filmmakers would use Paul Dini Batman stories instead as inspiration rather than Frank Miller version.
Regarding the bus driver, you see Joker move around and force the other guy to move too in order to make it work
He also checks his watch
17:56 because he used the sonar tech , the same tech he used in the climax of the movie 🤡
You know, the tech Fpx showed him in Hong Kong before the extraction
It's crazy cause Batman doesn't seem as clownish as in this in Begins. That's the best one in the trilogy
Hell No.
Dark Knight is the best one of the trilogy by leaps and bounds.
The only gripe I have with the film is Batman's voice.
Everything else is spot on.
Batman Begins was a decent start to a rather mediocre trilogy, that for some strange, incomprehensible reason, is heralded by millennials as one of the greatest achievements in cinema history.
@@veilofreality take ledger out this trilogy stinks and heath himself is horribly overrated
That's because he spent the first third of the movie as Bruce Wayne.
@@coreygraham860 Doesn't have anything to do with it
Damn, I feel like a kid again who's been told Santa isn't real lol So many mistakes I never noticed and now can't unsee!
You don't have to be; This video isn't the Bible, it's entirely subjective & I happen to disagree with 90% of it.
@@Grandmaster_Dragonborn What do you mean, you disagree with it? There's nothing subjective about a legitimate mistake a movie makes. You can say it doesn't bother you and that would be subjective but other people pointing out a mistake is not subjective at all.
Can you not think for yourself ? He’s making basic mistakes in the video and you haven’t pointed them out
Me, before watching The Dark Knight: "maaan, it's the 4th best film ever according to IMDB! It's better than Fight Club, it's better than One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, it must be sooo good, I'm in for a treat!"
Me, after watching The Dark Knight: "people are idiots."
Yeah I've always thought of The Dark Knight as a lesser version of Se7en
The IMDB top 100 list is an absolute joke, I actually thought The Dark Knight was pretty good and I'm not a big fan of Nolan but it shouldn't be in the top hundred let alone fourth
James Rolfe also discussed how the IMDB top #100 is very skewed towards Crime Dramas. It is just a thing that apparently happens that online voters favor crime dramas as "more serious" or "better" than other genres.
Oh geez Idk if I can handle a half hour of analysis of a movie that was soooo bad, I couldn’t actually finish it. It was DUMB, regardless of how talented Heath ledger was. The movie is shiite. Boring AF. On the other hand, Joaquin Phoenix as the Joker, he was amazing! And that movie was well done and moving. It didn’t even matter that it was a joker movie. It was just a good movie.
The movie was so boring that I totally forgot that Christian Bale was even in it. So many talented actors including Maggie Gyllenhaal for such a stupid film. What a waste.
My exact thought. When I was an edgy 14 year old I actually thought that this movie is a masterpiece. It's crazy how wrong I was. The movie was good but it's nowhere near the title of a masterpiece and yes, the joker is amazing. Both the movie and the character.
19:14 Seeing this I wonder, have you seen Batman Begins? I ask not because it should inform this movie (which it does, but a movie should be able to stand on its own, even a sequel) and not because it's the superior movie (which I believe it is) but it makes moments like this a little more clear if you're not outwardly familiar with what's going on right away. This doesn't make Bruce Wayne unsympathetic (and they may very well be escorts or something), but Bruce makes a conscious decision to act bafoonish. It's the same as when Christopher Reeve's Superman acts especially clumsy and socially inept, the idea is to avoid suspicion. In this case, Bruce Wayne is an eccentric, shallow, reckless playboy who spends his time screwing super-models and taking luxurious retreats (things skiing accidents can also be a good way to explain mysterious injuries).
So when you see a moment like this, the gag is that you're in on the joke. That he's making a complete ass of himself in order to maintain this persona of "Bruce Wayne: Eccentric Billionaire". Again, much like Christopher Reeve's Clark Kent pretending to faint after catching a bullet. Although in this movie there's the added subtext of the fact that he's feeling sexually competitive with the Harvey Dent character.
I used to hate superhero movies. But I liked dark knight. I feel like your none of your criticisms hold up. You missed alot of important points. Like that Batman and Joker are supposed to represent Superego and the Shadow, two sides of the same coin. Superhero movies are modern myths. And Nolan was aware of this. Your critisisms can be corrected quite easily.
See part one where I outline the positives, including Joker related stuff :)
@@collativelearning true...I do understand your stance, as I shared it most my life. But I thought DK was a bit better then most. I'm still a fan big of yours. We all have bad takes sometimes :)
First time I saw this movie I stopped it exactly at 15:00 , which seemed totally like a Simpsons Scene. Then years later I gave it another try, saw the whole thing and I was appalled. Also this movie is the reason I stopped looking at IMDB. It is outrageous this movie is in the top 5 in that site.
Same!! Imdb lost all credibility when they put all 3 of Nolan's Batman movies in the top 250 (TDK being #4), yet other great comic book movies like Watchmen, Winter Soldier, Avengers, Superman and others are not even in the top 250.
Curious how he felt about the Prestige. I still find that to be his greatest story telling achievement.
He basically hates Christopher Nolan.
The Prestige is a modern classic.
I have literally choked Through the Prestige maybe twice
@@highdesertsunset3011 How come?
@@Uroboros663 The Prestige, and Memento are arguably Nolan's best movies.
I read a theory a few years ago that suggested the Joker was a former high ranking military vet which would explain his ability to plan and execute complex schemes and his access to trained followers: his former military servicemen.
As dark and serious as this one is the new Batman makes this one look like a cartoon by comparison.
Another outstanding analysis. Highly overrated yet fawned on film. An unknown first time writer could not get this script with these obvious flaws and coincidences past an entry-level reader was what I thought the first time I watched it.
Among the worst videos I’ve seen from you, Rob. There are a lot of good points here but also so many...childish problems you have with this film.
When he jumps on the van roof, why would the van stop instantly when he lands?
^ Nolanite from India with 80IQ
11:59 also that guy who falls in this scene: it doesn't look like the bus hit him at all
14:56 idk if that's a flaw in the movie, i thought it was ok.
The seriousness critique is uniquely unfitting for Batman. In fact, it is the only superhero franchise that can take itself seriously, because no character in the Batman universe has super powers, at least in so far as Noland's Batman.