@@bervar7043, I really wish I COULD create a Leeds Method for endogamy! But it’s very different, as you know. My favorite resource is Paul Woodbury’s video on Legacy Family Tree Webinars, titled “Dealing with Endogamy.” You either need to have a membership or free trial to watch. Here’s a link: familytreewebinars.com/webinar/dealing-with-endogamy/
Ha! I've been digging into my GGGG-Grandmothers family of HINDS in Morris County NJ this week and one thing that comes up a lot is that, one, it's often spelled HINES, but also that, two, the older English spelling for the family is also often HAINES or HAINS because it presumably was pronounced as a long I instead of A. My bet is that the Hines in your sample is the same link as the Haynes matches. (Just funny that I literally was reading about these spelling variations YESTERDAY and then happened to watch this video.) Thanks again for all you do!
That's a GREAT reminder that spellings can be different! And Hinds/Hines/Haines can be the same family! (But, in this case, I made up those surnames to privatize things, so they're not "real.") And I've done a bit of research in Morris Co, NJ, on my husband's Leeds line!
Thanks so much, Dana, for this brilliant video! I am trying to help two relatives find out who were their grandfathers. From using the Leeds method, and looking at and building trees, I think I have found the grandfathers' families. I'm just not sure how to tell which of the family members are the grandfathers. Thanks again!
Thank you! Have you narrowed it down to a set of brothers? When we get to brothers, it can be difficult to tell which is the father/grandfather of someone. You'd need to rule it out by testing their descendants. But sometimes there aren't any descendants to test. Hope this helps! And feel free to ask a follow-up question.
@@karenwall3013, Great question! I used SmartArt in PowerPoint. You can also do this in Word! And it’s really easy. 🙂 I just posted a video about how to create else diagrams! Here’s the link: th-cam.com/video/jnWMNdX7iHI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Y3U4_zI6BRpdMpN0
Actually, i am helping a friend and its a tough one.... we have low cM, matching..... i have found 3 matches with the same ancestors... but it s very long to find her biological father.....its easy with high cM, but here, its under 90 cM , and there s a lot of persons to to..... i dont know if i will be able to find him, its like to search a needle in a forrest.....do you have clue or suggestions to help me please... thanks
@@annemariedes, First, I’d suggest looking at DNA Adoption’s site as there are often other ways to identify unknown biological parents: dnaadoption.org And I’m sure they share this, but I’d also recommend having your friend’s DNA at the big 4 sites…you have to pay to test at AncestryDNA and 23andMe. But you can transfer your DNA results to MyHeritage & FTDNA (FamilyTreeDNA). You never know where the highest match will show up! I had someone do this and he found a niece on another site. But, cases are solved with low matches like that! It’s just a lot of work. I hope this helps! I’ll continue to post more videos that might be helpful.
Thank you again, Dana! I have just finished doing this with my 2 (out of 3) clusters that I had mentioned last video because I am only concentrating on my paternal line. I am showing 2 sets of great-grandparents per cluster, not one. I did not do every 2-3 cousin match, only 5 per each cluster. Should I do more people?
Hi, Mari. I remember your comment. Are your clusters from 90-400 cM? You can't send an image here, but if you email me your diagram for at least one of the clusters, I'm happy to provide some quick feedback. And, you might as well include an image of your Leeds Method chart :) My email is drleeds@sbcglobal.net
Haynes family should be red color cluster right? (video shows blue, but you had assigned that color to to Beck)..if possible, please show how they all fit together including blue and red side please. Beck and Haynes on 1 tree beginning with Tester please.
Oops! You're right! I called them the RED cluster, but when I diagrammed them I used the color BLUE. (Around 13:33) Sorry about that! And unfortunately, I can't edit a video after it's posted on TH-cam. I'll do more case studies and show them through to the end! Thanks for watching! Dana
Hi Dana, I'm looking for the unknown father of my father. I tested him at Ancestry and MyHeritage, but 23andme didn't work (the laboratory fails). But there are only three matches between 70 and 75 cM probably belonging to one group and two matches around 60 cM, but their trees are only private and they didn't answer. All others matches are below 50cM. So I get a dozen groups. What can I do to get on with it?
Hi Peter, Based on your father's test results and highest matches on his paternal side, there are a few possibilities to consider: ✅His father may have been born outside the U.S. ✅Recent generations in the family might be small. Matches between 90-400 cM typically indicate 2nd or 3rd cousins, sharing great or 2x great grandparents. Low match numbers could be due to: ✅Relatives living in countries where DNA testing is uncommon ✅Recent generations having few or no children Regarding the top 5 matches: ✅Do they all have private or no family trees? ✅Are there any unique names or details in their profiles (age, location, photos)? ✅Have you checked the enhanced shared matches feature? Even with limited information, you might be able to identify connections. For instance, if two matches are siblings or first cousins, searching for them together (e.g., in obituaries) could yield useful information. Check out this video for help with enhanced shared matches: th-cam.com/video/IP6X1Fg7GcE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=YCXUNmb0VvwOL3Q8 Also this one for an example: th-cam.com/video/DOlKVlQaG-M/w-d-xo.htmlsi=WdiyZ2kud-62HB_1 Hope this helps! Dana
I just don't know what else to do. I know who my MCRA couple is, but I just can't figure out who is the parent of my ancestor. I don't know if it's the male of the couple or one of their sons. They all lived in one community in Alabama, but I don't know how my male ancestor would have come in contact with this family. I've had professional genealogist help me, but they couldn't figure anything out either. Also with the enhanced matches, do it keep looking at the shared matches of shared matches of shared matches. Maybe I need a Leed's chart and focus on just this line and not all 4 grandparents.
@@gerrigibson5118, I understand your frustration! And, with the family being in one community in Alabama, it’s likely there is pedigree collapse. This is basically when cousins marry cousins and was common in the 1800s. I have this in my Tennessee family. Did the professional genealogists suggest that was an issue? I would probably not use a Leeds Method chart in this case. (How far back is this ancestor?) Instead, I would work with the enhanced shared matches. And, yes, I often start working with the shared matches of the shared matches. :) That would be interesting to see if this case can now be solved when the professional couldn’t solve it before! But there could be other issues involved.
Looking for unknown father. Have a parent's first cousin match and after building back their paternal tree can place 4th and 5th cousins. Used WATO and it estimates that the father is a NPA of the father of the parent's first cousin. So I am searching for an unknown mother of the unknown father. I have built individual trees for many of the people I can't place on the paternal line assuming they fit the father's maternal line but with most being 4th and 5th cousins so not many MCRA and lots of floating treets. I can join some of these on trees and find MCRAs. Is it just a case of sitting waiting for better matches or do you have any suggestions of how I can proceed? Ancestry gives me only a handful of matches at all so I am reliant on Myheritage and 23andMe to build the Leeds chart. Thank you for the video
@@pearlb4287, Yes, that sounds like a difficult case. Are you and/or these matches (and MRCAs) from outside the U.S.? That would be the most common cause of so few matches. But it can also happen when the families are quite small. I worked in IGG (investigative genetic genealogy) for 2 years. Since we could only use matches at GEDmatch and FTDNA, we often had very poor matches. It usually just took a lot of work piecing all of the people together and trying to find connections between the different groups. Going back to the start of your comment, are you saying whoever is looking for their unknown father (since I’m not sure it’s you) has a first cousin match for their dad’s side?
@@DanaLeeds We look for the father of my partner. The "father" is Sardinian. Yes, he has a predicted 1st cousin of the father "Antonia" (on Myheritage). Antonia's daughter comes up as a 3rd/4th cousin and the grandson doesn't share any dna. Antonia is from the 2nd marriage of her grandfather and her father was an only child who married at 38. From the 1st marriage of Antonia's grandfather I have been able to place 4th cousins back to a MCRA generations before the grandfather down the paternal line. So far I haven't linked dna matches on the grandmother's side. Some distant matches I can't place as it is before available records but the names and places tie in very well. Whilst I understand endogamy might be an issue, for the family of Antonia they have been based in particular areas of the Island. However, I have a lot of people that are from a totally different part of the Island. In the early 1900's someone from the family did marry someone from the town where the other bulk of the unknown matches are from. I have done WATO and they predict at 88%, using some distant matches I can tie in too, that the father of my partner would be the grandchild of Antonia's father. As he married late at 38 this would seem to tie in to him having a child before marriage. It was known that he also had a long standing affair during the marriage to someone unknown. Because I have been working on building a tree starting from dna matches but based on traditional records I haven't been able to join these distinct parts of the tree. I am struggling to understand what to do next other than just wait for a useful match. I will add that Antonia wants to help all she can but has no idea who it could be. I have been sent a list of her matches and she has many more good matches but it is clear that they are from her mother's side and my partner doesn't have them in his lists. I did try and do a Leeds chart but the links were so distant I had a lot of very small groups. I have done autoclustering but finding it difficult to know what to actually do with the results. Thanks for reading.
@@pearlb4287, That’s more likely a second cousin level - so possibly sharing a great grandparent couple. I would work with that hypothesis unless you can figure out the age of this match and how the age compares to your partner.
I have done the leeds method, and on one of my groups is a gentleman that is 130 cms but he is the only one in his group. His matches are 42 cms and lower. We only have one group for paternal side, they are from England. This is an unknown family line . My husband's grandmother is looking for her dad's, father. As he was an illegitimate child. We recently received papers for his mother. Her father was a Barnardo's Orphan. With this close match we have Im not seeing a Collins line in this family line, as a document suggested may be the father. Would you have any suggestions, is this normal not to have any matches in a group?
Hi, Michelle. I have a few suggestions. First, whose DNA are you using? It's best to use your husband's grandmother's. Second, where has she tested? For unknown parentage cases, it's helpful to be in the 4 major databases as you never know where your closest match will appear. You have to pay to test at Ancestry and 23andMe, but you can transfer your results to MyHeritage and FamilyTreeDNA (Family Finders). Third, if these are the best matches you have to work with, I'd build out that 130 cM match as best you can (if it isn't already back to 3x great-grandparents). Then work with as many of the shared matches as possible trying to find a connection. In fact, this is a great case for trying the Pro Tools at Ancestry - if that is where the match is. You can then see the closest matches to this 130 match and hopefully find connections. Hope this helps! Dana
I am using my husband's grandmother dna. She was tested on Ancestry and I uploaded to Myhertiage and Familydna. I do have protools, Love it! My question is now, how do I do the leeds method on Myhertiage? I'm still trying to figure out Familytreedna Thank you for the tips! Your videos help alot!
@@michellecarrel8090, I’ve been traveling and headed home now. I saw you mention Barnado’s Oprhans and had not heard of them. I just read an article and it’s fascinating! Could you possibly email me at drleeds@sbcglobal.net? Thanks! :)
@@kailtoria, Hi! On MyHeritage, go to DNA > DNA Matches. Scroll down listing the matches who share 400 down to 90 cM of DNA with you (or whoever). Click on “Review DNA Match” of the first person & scroll down to “Shared Matches.” You can “Sort By” “Shared DNA with you.” And just follow the regular steps. Hope this helps!
You lost me where you said that Kristopher, Sherry and Holly are connected around the couple Earnest Back and Wynona Helvig. Wouldn’t that all be connected through Charles and Caroline?
@@EBAGNELL1, Hi! So around 12:48 is what I think you’re asking about. Yes, Kristopher, Sherry, & Holly are all descendants of Charles & Caroline. (I saw that a bit earlier.) But that cluster is forming around the couple of Ernest Beck & Wynona Helvig. If kze hadn’t been there, the cluster would have formed around Charles & Caroline. But with kze, we get to move a generation closer and see that Ernest & Wynona are the adoptees direct ancestors since a cluster formed around them. Hope this helps!
Ever thought of developing a Leeds Methods that works for endogamy? Its a nightmare 😢
@@bervar7043, I really wish I COULD create a Leeds Method for endogamy! But it’s very different, as you know. My favorite resource is Paul Woodbury’s video on Legacy Family Tree Webinars, titled “Dealing with Endogamy.” You either need to have a membership or free trial to watch. Here’s a link: familytreewebinars.com/webinar/dealing-with-endogamy/
Another very useful video and great case studies
@@kathleenkelley1299, Thanks! ☺️
Great video! Thanks Dana!
@@markthompson7124, Thank you! 🥰
Ha! I've been digging into my GGGG-Grandmothers family of HINDS in Morris County NJ this week and one thing that comes up a lot is that, one, it's often spelled HINES, but also that, two, the older English spelling for the family is also often HAINES or HAINS because it presumably was pronounced as a long I instead of A. My bet is that the Hines in your sample is the same link as the Haynes matches. (Just funny that I literally was reading about these spelling variations YESTERDAY and then happened to watch this video.) Thanks again for all you do!
That's a GREAT reminder that spellings can be different! And Hinds/Hines/Haines can be the same family! (But, in this case, I made up those surnames to privatize things, so they're not "real.")
And I've done a bit of research in Morris Co, NJ, on my husband's Leeds line!
@@DanaLeeds It's even funnier that you made up the names (grin).
@@Chappysmom Agreed! 😂
Thanks so much, Dana, for this brilliant video!
I am trying to help two relatives find out who were their grandfathers. From using the Leeds method, and looking at and building trees, I think I have found the grandfathers' families. I'm just not sure how to tell which of the family members are the grandfathers.
Thanks again!
Thank you!
Have you narrowed it down to a set of brothers? When we get to brothers, it can be difficult to tell which is the father/grandfather of someone. You'd need to rule it out by testing their descendants. But sometimes there aren't any descendants to test.
Hope this helps! And feel free to ask a follow-up question.
Dana, what are you using to diagram the trees?
@@karenwall3013, Great question! I used SmartArt in PowerPoint. You can also do this in Word! And it’s really easy. 🙂 I just posted a video about how to create else diagrams! Here’s the link: th-cam.com/video/jnWMNdX7iHI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Y3U4_zI6BRpdMpN0
thank you so much
@@annemariedes, You’re very welcome! 😁
Actually, i am helping a friend and its a tough one.... we have low cM, matching..... i have found 3 matches with the same ancestors... but it s very long to find her biological father.....its easy with high cM, but here, its under 90 cM , and there s a lot of persons to to..... i dont know if i will be able to find him, its like to search a needle in a forrest.....do you have clue or suggestions to help me please... thanks
@@annemariedes, First, I’d suggest looking at DNA Adoption’s site as there are often other ways to identify unknown biological parents: dnaadoption.org
And I’m sure they share this, but I’d also recommend having your friend’s DNA at the big 4 sites…you have to pay to test at AncestryDNA and 23andMe. But you can transfer your DNA results to MyHeritage & FTDNA (FamilyTreeDNA). You never know where the highest match will show up! I had someone do this and he found a niece on another site.
But, cases are solved with low matches like that! It’s just a lot of work.
I hope this helps! I’ll continue to post more videos that might be helpful.
Thank you again, Dana! I have just finished doing this with my 2 (out of 3) clusters that I had mentioned last video because I am only concentrating on my paternal line. I am showing 2 sets of great-grandparents per cluster, not one. I did not do every 2-3 cousin match, only 5 per each cluster. Should I do more people?
Hi, Mari. I remember your comment. Are your clusters from 90-400 cM? You can't send an image here, but if you email me your diagram for at least one of the clusters, I'm happy to provide some quick feedback. And, you might as well include an image of your Leeds Method chart :) My email is drleeds@sbcglobal.net
Haynes family should be red color cluster right? (video shows blue, but you had assigned that color to to Beck)..if possible, please show how they all fit together including blue and red side please. Beck and Haynes on 1 tree beginning with Tester please.
Oops! You're right! I called them the RED cluster, but when I diagrammed them I used the color BLUE. (Around 13:33) Sorry about that!
And unfortunately, I can't edit a video after it's posted on TH-cam. I'll do more case studies and show them through to the end!
Thanks for watching!
Dana
May I recommend a lapel mic? It will eliminate the echo sound you have.
Hi Dana, I'm looking for the unknown father of my father. I tested him at Ancestry and MyHeritage, but 23andme didn't work (the laboratory fails).
But there are only three matches between 70 and 75 cM probably belonging to one group and two matches around 60 cM, but their trees are only private and they didn't answer. All others matches are below 50cM. So I get a dozen groups.
What can I do to get on with it?
Hi Peter,
Based on your father's test results and highest matches on his paternal side, there are a few possibilities to consider:
✅His father may have been born outside the U.S.
✅Recent generations in the family might be small.
Matches between 90-400 cM typically indicate 2nd or 3rd cousins, sharing great or 2x great grandparents. Low match numbers could be due to:
✅Relatives living in countries where DNA testing is uncommon
✅Recent generations having few or no children
Regarding the top 5 matches:
✅Do they all have private or no family trees?
✅Are there any unique names or details in their profiles (age, location, photos)?
✅Have you checked the enhanced shared matches feature?
Even with limited information, you might be able to identify connections. For instance, if two matches are siblings or first cousins, searching for them together (e.g., in obituaries) could yield useful information.
Check out this video for help with enhanced shared matches: th-cam.com/video/IP6X1Fg7GcE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=YCXUNmb0VvwOL3Q8
Also this one for an example: th-cam.com/video/DOlKVlQaG-M/w-d-xo.htmlsi=WdiyZ2kud-62HB_1
Hope this helps!
Dana
I just don't know what else to do. I know who my MCRA couple is, but I just can't figure out who is the parent of my ancestor. I don't know if it's the male of the couple or one of their sons. They all lived in one community in Alabama, but I don't know how my male ancestor would have come in contact with this family. I've had professional genealogist help me, but they couldn't figure anything out either. Also with the enhanced matches, do it keep looking at the shared matches of shared matches of shared matches. Maybe I need a Leed's chart and focus on just this line and not all 4 grandparents.
@@gerrigibson5118, I understand your frustration! And, with the family being in one community in Alabama, it’s likely there is pedigree collapse. This is basically when cousins marry cousins and was common in the 1800s. I have this in my Tennessee family. Did the professional genealogists suggest that was an issue?
I would probably not use a Leeds Method chart in this case. (How far back is this ancestor?) Instead, I would work with the enhanced shared matches. And, yes, I often start working with the shared matches of the shared matches. :) That would be interesting to see if this case can now be solved when the professional couldn’t solve it before! But there could be other issues involved.
Looking for unknown father. Have a parent's first cousin match and after building back their paternal tree can place 4th and 5th cousins. Used WATO and it estimates that the father is a NPA of the father of the parent's first cousin. So I am searching for an unknown mother of the unknown father. I have built individual trees for many of the people I can't place on the paternal line assuming they fit the father's maternal line but with most being 4th and 5th cousins so not many MCRA and lots of floating treets. I can join some of these on trees and find MCRAs. Is it just a case of sitting waiting for better matches or do you have any suggestions of how I can proceed? Ancestry gives me only a handful of matches at all so I am reliant on Myheritage and 23andMe to build the Leeds chart. Thank you for the video
@@pearlb4287, Yes, that sounds like a difficult case. Are you and/or these matches (and MRCAs) from outside the U.S.? That would be the most common cause of so few matches. But it can also happen when the families are quite small.
I worked in IGG (investigative genetic genealogy) for 2 years. Since we could only use matches at GEDmatch and FTDNA, we often had very poor matches. It usually just took a lot of work piecing all of the people together and trying to find connections between the different groups.
Going back to the start of your comment, are you saying whoever is looking for their unknown father (since I’m not sure it’s you) has a first cousin match for their dad’s side?
@@DanaLeeds We look for the father of my partner. The "father" is Sardinian. Yes, he has a predicted 1st cousin of the father "Antonia" (on Myheritage). Antonia's daughter comes up as a 3rd/4th cousin and the grandson doesn't share any dna. Antonia is from the 2nd marriage of her grandfather and her father was an only child who married at 38. From the 1st marriage of Antonia's grandfather I have been able to place 4th cousins back to a MCRA generations before the grandfather down the paternal line. So far I haven't linked dna matches on the grandmother's side. Some distant matches I can't place as it is before available records but the names and places tie in very well. Whilst I understand endogamy might be an issue, for the family of Antonia they have been based in particular areas of the Island. However, I have a lot of people that are from a totally different part of the Island. In the early 1900's someone from the family did marry someone from the town where the other bulk of the unknown matches are from. I have done WATO and they predict at 88%, using some distant matches I can tie in too, that the father of my partner would be the grandchild of Antonia's father. As he married late at 38 this would seem to tie in to him having a child before marriage. It was known that he also had a long standing affair during the marriage to someone unknown. Because I have been working on building a tree starting from dna matches but based on traditional records I haven't been able to join these distinct parts of the tree. I am struggling to understand what to do next other than just wait for a useful match. I will add that Antonia wants to help all she can but has no idea who it could be. I have been sent a list of her matches and she has many more good matches but it is clear that they are from her mother's side and my partner doesn't have them in his lists. I did try and do a Leeds chart but the links were so distant I had a lot of very small groups. I have done autoclustering but finding it difficult to know what to actually do with the results. Thanks for reading.
@@pearlb4287, Can you tell me how many cM this match shares with your partner? And how many segments?
@@DanaLeeds
3.8% (266.2 cM)
Shared DNA
7Shared segments
89.6 cM
Largest segment
@@pearlb4287, That’s more likely a second cousin level - so possibly sharing a great grandparent couple. I would work with that hypothesis unless you can figure out the age of this match and how the age compares to your partner.
I have done the leeds method, and on one of my groups is a gentleman that is 130 cms but he is the only one in his group. His matches are 42 cms and lower. We only have one group for paternal side, they are from England. This is an unknown family line . My husband's grandmother is looking for her dad's, father. As he was an illegitimate child. We recently received papers for his mother.
Her father was a Barnardo's Orphan. With this close match we have Im not seeing a Collins line in this family line, as a document suggested may be the father. Would you have any suggestions, is this normal not to have any matches in a group?
Hi, Michelle. I have a few suggestions. First, whose DNA are you using? It's best to use your husband's grandmother's. Second, where has she tested? For unknown parentage cases, it's helpful to be in the 4 major databases as you never know where your closest match will appear. You have to pay to test at Ancestry and 23andMe, but you can transfer your results to MyHeritage and FamilyTreeDNA (Family Finders). Third, if these are the best matches you have to work with, I'd build out that 130 cM match as best you can (if it isn't already back to 3x great-grandparents). Then work with as many of the shared matches as possible trying to find a connection. In fact, this is a great case for trying the Pro Tools at Ancestry - if that is where the match is. You can then see the closest matches to this 130 match and hopefully find connections.
Hope this helps!
Dana
I am using my husband's grandmother dna. She was tested on Ancestry and I uploaded to Myhertiage and Familydna. I do have protools, Love it! My question is now, how do I do the leeds method on Myhertiage? I'm still trying to figure out Familytreedna
Thank you for the tips! Your videos help alot!
@@michellecarrel8090, I’ve been traveling and headed home now. I saw you mention Barnado’s Oprhans and had not heard of them. I just read an article and it’s fascinating! Could you possibly email me at drleeds@sbcglobal.net? Thanks! :)
@@kailtoria, Hi! On MyHeritage, go to DNA > DNA Matches. Scroll down listing the matches who share 400 down to 90 cM of DNA with you (or whoever). Click on “Review DNA Match” of the first person & scroll down to “Shared Matches.” You can “Sort By” “Shared DNA with you.” And just follow the regular steps. Hope this helps!
Thank you!
Where is link to first video?
Look at the “more” and Description and scroll to the bottom for the other link.
In case you didn't see it: th-cam.com/video/zMDbU72_-Ms/w-d-xo.htmlsi=X4_OzG_x-W0ot9Rb 😊
You lost me where you said that Kristopher, Sherry and Holly are connected around the couple Earnest Back and Wynona Helvig. Wouldn’t that all be connected through Charles and Caroline?
@@EBAGNELL1, Hi! So around 12:48 is what I think you’re asking about. Yes, Kristopher, Sherry, & Holly are all descendants of Charles & Caroline. (I saw that a bit earlier.) But that cluster is forming around the couple of Ernest Beck & Wynona Helvig. If kze hadn’t been there, the cluster would have formed around Charles & Caroline. But with kze, we get to move a generation closer and see that Ernest & Wynona are the adoptees direct ancestors since a cluster formed around them. Hope this helps!
@@DanaLeeds ah ok. I understand now
@@EBAGNELL1 Great! ☺️