I mean, not only the government/ police, the people also should understand when so many people where there. Where is their responsibility? It was doomed from the start.
@@PureWhiteWolf honestly!!! Like who goes, “hmmm this is super crowded, I’ll just join in this narrow space, surely nothing bad will happen!” Common sense can save lives, ppl…
@@autumnlove96able That is true, but as i see it. We live as sheeps, as long their is many people, more will come. We have rejected common sense a long time a go, it's very sad those who died and it's sad for their family and friends. But if they did have some common sense. Then those people would still be alive. What i fear the most, is that this will be forgotten and it will happen again.
I live in korea and had friends in Itaewon, luckily none were hurt There were official transcripts released where people were calling police up to 4 hours before the incident and police not reacting properly or at all until the actual crush began. Officials have since apologized for this. It's horrible tragedy that may have been prevented but thats hindsight. Holidays like this aren't the issue Itaewon gets regularly busy like that and it's honestly surprising it didn't happen before.
There's a yearly medieval fair here in Portugal that takes place in an entire village. It's so popular that the police needs to siege the place and limit how many people get into it, because being an old village with tight walled streets, the exact same thing would happen here... So Seul needed more crowd control like that, and after this tragedy I'm sure it will.
I lived in Osaka and goes to both this year and last year's Halloween, I think it is quite dense with people and crowds but the road/place in this case Doutonbori, Shinsaibashi theres still alot of spaces and not to mention theres police watching over managing the crowds, so I don't think it should be ban since Japan has a good place and management...
Definitely such a scary, terrible, and devastating event that happened in South Korea. It boggled my mind to think that over 150 people were killed in such a way. That is almost equal to the death toll of the 2011 Joplin EF-5 Tornado. Just absolutely heartbreaking. My heart goes out to those individuals and their families. ❤️
i spent the early part of halloween handing out candy to trick or treaters, later in the evening i went to the costume party at the pub and late into the night iwas playing scary games with my friends on discord, pretty much what my halloween was like pre pandemic really and its an enjoyable evening.
I was in Shibuya at Halloween in 2018 and it was unbelievably packed. Just like this one except the area is not slopped. Scary and exciting at the same time.
Yeah, other countries could and should learn from these tragedies to take preventive measures, even it means letting less people on the street at the same time.
America handled this much better instead of having 1 town host hallloween, they have the giant sports stadiums host the events with capacities of 15,000 to 100,000 for the adult/college students while kids would be taken to local neighborhoods going door to door for candy. Also Marijuana is still illegal in USA, there are only 19 states that have legalized it.
Obviously it is very tragic, but I also think it’s so interesting to see the cultural differences of the holiday in general. I think you hit the nail on the head with saying that the biggest difference is that Halloween is not like a neighborhood thing in Japan like it is in America. A lot of people in America see it as a holiday for children and for them to go trick or treating. But since they don’t really have that in Japan they jump to the part where you get drunk. I think it’s very similar to the drinking age in the States. Because a lot of Americans don’t get any access to alcohol before they are 21/go to college, once they are old enough they binge drink just for the hell of it.
Wouldn't banning one event just concentrate people's desire to have fun into the remaining events even more? I'd think it would be better to get people to spread out the celebrations over more events -- maybe try to make some smaller events more popular in the future.
I don't think there were any precautions to be taken to prevent, this I've heard NYPD has to seal off time square on new years to but thats just to keep more people from coming. Not sure how it got that bad in Seoul without some kind of emergency going on before hand. Not to make light of the situation but enoughpeople thought they could fit through a crowded narrow street that a mountain pilled up and 151 people died, that sounds so stupid, I say this as someone who was strampled by a stampede of high school students trying trying to exit the building the day before holiday break.
Crazy how a country like Korea, who was so strict concerning Covid, even it's people shunning foreigners and locals alike, abusive remarks and whatnot, and now this happens. Kinda sad and ironic at the same time.
"...The one day that young people can let go..." Speaks a lot about Japan. If the country wasn't as restrictive as it looks from the outside, then it might come to such extreme situations.
No, it's horrible and nightmarish and something has to be done in Korea. Korea other than being Asian compared to Japan isn't anywhere near as safe higher crime rate much more intense drinking society. Their introduction to western culture is like it's on fast forward compared to Japan's introduction which started on trains which sounds like hell on earth. Also Marijuana is not legal in more than a couple of states in America unless you have a Dr's prescription.
I’ve seen the footage and man it’s bad. Literally bodies of people laying around while people frantically performing cpr on them. Senseless loss of life
Hopefully this pushes for better architectural design of city streets especially for popular and crowded locations, banning the holiday makes no sense to me tbh.
Its definitely bc its the first since the pandemic, we had a similar experience in Israel last lag ba Omer, its a holiday and one of the traditions is to "flatten on righteous grave".since it was the first time after the pandemic a lot more ppl went and 147 ppl got crushed and died.
I don’t know much about the celebrations in Tokyo but why not hold other parties in locations other that just shibuya. Why not hold events in shinjuku and akihabara and ikebukuro and roppongi at the same time so you don’t have massive amounts of people in just one area
I live in Japan. Halloween in Japan has people dressed up everywhere in Tokyo. Shibuya has a wide variety of costumes. I have the impression that many people in Ikebukuro dress up as anime characters.
Hearing about this made me think about new years eve in NYC when the ball drops at midnight. Those streets are flooded and jam pacted with people. Though there's never been such a horrific incident to my knowledge, knowing that it is possible if one of those nights become too rowdy for police to control, it's a scary thought. Same with the possibility of an unstable person pulling a 2019 Tokyo car attack as well. This accident surely sets a precedent for the seriousness of implementing public safety for events in general. RIP and my condolences to everyone.
Arguably you can _ban_ these kinds of things, and not in the way you'd normally do...ban more than 30 person gatherings in places where you'd see a whole crowd just compacted and starting to pressurize. Let them party in an open field with a thousand people. Just not in severely claustrophobic locations where you'd see this happen. And as a case for Japan, it can also be argued that all public partying like this _should_ be at an open field as well.
This remainds me so much of the loveparade 2010 here in germany where 21 people and here are now over 150?! I'm so fucking sad that something like this happend after all this bullshit the last years. Just seeing the pictures is just so crazy to imaging what those people had to experience.
It is VERY different to the rest of the world and how we would treat them restrictions for a holiday, example: here in ireland (where you met my fella in a music shop up north in belfast), we have a holiday where all bars and sale of drink/booze is banned/closed and everyone gets the day off basically, our answer to these restrictions on our holiday?: EVERYONE buys a pile amount of drink the day before, so off-licenses/offies (liqueur stores) are barren if your not in the queue before the afternoon. ive seen a guy start a fight over a 12 pack of Harp beer. We would not last long in japan, that or the japanese police would arrest irish accents on the spot
Tbh banning things will not stop/prevent bad things from happening.. sadly bad things happen and all we can do is learn from it and plan better next time.. humans are going to do what humans want too. In the end as individuals we need to come together and realize when things get out of hand and look after one another.. speak up when you know something is wrong and trust your instincts.
I agree with you Joey. If I am not mistaken, there are a lot of cops in Japan's cities. The danger would have been spotted long before the crowds become dangerous.
Seeing a crowd like that i would have just party or gather else where. Have my fair share of crowded events but enough for shoulder to shoulder is too much. Knowing it can just take ignorant people to just push on to cause this.
There's just a bit of a cultural divide between the West and Asian countries when it comes to Halloween. I'm assuming the media they consume is showing them College level Halloween parties which admittedly can get a little crazy, but are usually constrained to a building and don't take over the streets en masse. The idea is to dress up to socialize and sort of celebrate the spooky vibes, but its nothing super serious and usually doesn't mean rioting in the streets. But I think the most prevalent sort of Western concept of Halloween is the suburban idea of kids going house to house trick or treating. It's a sort of fun and innocent concept where kids get to choose out what they want to be for halloween and then show off to their friends and neighbours while getting some candy. That's the idea and sort of the core spirit of the holiday. It should NOT be a day to put on a mask and cause chaos. If you're doing that, you're really not getting it. Watch some horror movies with friends, make a fun costume and have fun hanging out because Halloween is about creativity and fun, not violence.
similar thing happened in indonesia like a week before the korean halloween tragedy, after a soccer game i believe so its not the holiday's fault its human error and there not being enough police around to control the flow of the people.
Idk if I would really truly blame anybody but there was many unresponded 112 calls (Korean 911) that has people saying stuff about how bad the crowd was and how they couldn’t get/turning dangerous. I wish they would’ve responded but then again I don’t know the entire situation of their gov and all that
I wonder what is the thought process of some people, seeing that huge ass crowd in a slope, just pushing and shoving each other, and goes "That seems like a fun time". My claustrophobic ass couldn't
My condolences to those who died, but why did those deaths have to happen tho? They could have been avoided by doing something smart; stay away from troubles. This is why I don’t really like celebrations of any kind, because celebrations do have a tendency to attract stupid actions for some reason, to certain degree, and sometimes it is fatal.
Japan don't have really narrow corridor on a slope like in Itaewon. But more personnels put into traffic on high crowd festive should have been a common sense implemented by authority cuz it's their job honestly.
If there's anything Japan is good at it is people being orderly and crowd control, so I don't think THAT is what Japan should be worried about. No Sarcasm.
I watched a video of the crowd crush happening. I saw a dozen of lifeless bodies wedged between other lifeless bodies like falling dominoes... that shit traumatized me. I DO NOT recommend watching it
no I was in Shibuya, and they had the situation under control japans infrastructure is different from Koreas, so the chances of the incident happening in japans Halloween hubs is much lower (not impossible ofc)
It is not a holidays fault but an human error . A lot of things went horribly wrong all at once but you can't say that it couldn't have happend during any other big event or holiday . So no . I don't think Japan should ban Halloween. Instead , new rules and preventive measures should be put in place , so such tragedy never happens again .
This is how I feel. Surely there’s a reasonable middle ground between completely banning something and allowing it to get so out of hand it makes Philadelphia Eagles fans feel uncomfortable with the amount of chaos
Rules put in place might have contributed to that happening. Apparently south korea have some rule that limits the number of people allowed in each bar in relation to area, which causes long queues and massification outside. While inside is not even crowded. The natural order when bars are full is entering seeing it sucks and leaving the fuck out. Well that was replaced by everyone waiting to enter locals that did not let anyone in with no progression lmao
A big thing to keep in mind too is that a lot of these folks working front of house, security, event planning, etc have likely been out of work for some time. Or, they’re brand new at doing this. Not sure about Seoul and Tokyo, but a lot of friends where I live (NYC) just left as they were suddenly out of work. Unless you’re affiliated with a big label or promoter like Insomniac or Boiler Room or something, nightclubs and venues run on tight margins.
Japan had this literally on daily basis, that's called rush hour. The main difference is the people tried their best not to push each other, and also the crowd control group being actually competent. It is bad, but not something new or unexpected.
That is how we are in the West because our population density even in big cities doesn't tend to be as extreme as in some Asian countries. People there had to overcome that natural instinct to avoid densely packed crowds to survive aspects of city life, which leaves them more vulnerable in situations like this where there is no crowd control present and the streets and alleyways are so narrow. I think the solution would be to bar off the narrow areas during busy times like holidays or events, and only let a certain number of people in as though it were a carnival or something. That way they can prevent the crowds there from getting too dense. All attendees should be reminded to be patient and not push or move too close together. Tell everyone to keep an arm's length apart when on the move and not to block the walkways. Have some security scattered about to intervene if they see a dangerous crowd building up in one spot.
@KanashiiFX They LITERALLY had to be crushed every time they board a train in rush hour. The station attendant literally football tackled them into the cabin. The difference is of course, staying in order...
I've never been to Japan for Halloween, but Itaewon is a place with small streets and steep hills, it was a neighborhood mostly occupied by foreigners and outsiders back in the day, so it was not meant to have crowds of thousands of people like it does during Halloween. I would argue the police should've known crowds would be even worse than years before (and it HAS been bad years before COVID. Halloween weekend in Itaewon gets crazy, with hundreds of people riding the trains in full costumes and whatnot) but I agree that it was just an unfortunate event.
Banning Halloween because of this would be as stupid as the British banning Football because they had things like this happen in their stadiums. Take the time to figure out the what and the why things went wrong and FIX it.
@@purpleplanet888 Yeah, people seem to be ignoring this part totally. No official source in Japan is asking, "Should we *BAN* Halloween?", just attempting to avoid issues after a tragedy surrounding it the day prior and several issues that have popped up in previous Halloween celebrations (which are hardly any different than any other countries various celebration holidays). All he could do was say "Some old people question if it should be allowed"...yeah, no shit Joey, there are old people in every country in the world who don't understand the youth of several generations after them just like their great grandparents didn't understand them. *tl'dr -* Ever since he started covering Japanese news with increasing frequency the titles have just ramped up to insane levels of clickbait and no fan wants to admit it.
@@Goldenkitten1 I admit he has been posting some topics I personally do not like on this channel. But I still enjoy the other contents joey make, especially the podcast and his collabs with Chris.
@@Goldenkitten1 I don't see what's wrong with the title. It's just a question to prompt discussion, not a statement. I didn't go into this with a false impression that Japan has set it's sights on banning Halloween. I went into it expecting a discussion about the Halloween culture in Japan and whether there are proper safety measures to prevent accidents from happening since Japan has had its fair share of Halloween-related incidents.
Pretty sure that stuff happens every year.... Not only at Halloween. I think it was just unfortunate that they got caught up in the middle of the crowds. But I do agree that proper measures should've been taken to prevent this from happening.
I had seen a video of one cop struggling to direct people on Reddit, just the one policeman. There should have been many more helping keep people spread out or moving.
@@sneedmando186 Itaewon normally is always full it's a party/tourist area. and maybe they had something else to do. The people also hold responsibility for their actions. Because I saw people going left and right. Everyone thought about themselves. Which lead to the disaster.
Crowd crushes and human stampedes do happen relatively often. In fact the very next day there was another incident where 135 people died in India. It can happen at any time when there are more people than a location can comfortably hold.
There’s an article where some police call transcripts were revealed and multiple people called worried about other’s safety in an alleyway and the police kept saying that they’ll look into it and will send some police officers to where the reports were at and I personally think they just said it without doing anything since multiple people died that night in the alleyway and I think as long as the Japanese police officers listen to peoples reports it will be okay
I've been to itewon on non-holiday day and still felt claustrophobic... Maybe i am personally too used to cities with less population density. But it is clearly the authorities fault for not doing the crowd management. I have witnessed crowd management in dubai during new year celebrations - they had police officers fishing out people with small children and guiding them to metro station and volunteers handing out water bottles. In general being in that crowd was horrible but the crowd was handled good
I was at Shibuya Halloween this year and also in 2018. This year there were police officers stationed every few meters on stands above the crowd directing traffic and people with speakers, also directing the flow of walking right from the station. They were working their butts off and it felt so much safer and calmer compared to 2018. They definitely took notes and improved on controlling it in a safe way, so i dont think they have any need to ban it since they showed how well they could control it this year.
I watched a few livestreams of shibuya during Halloween and I did see police at certain points controlling the flow of people, they even sectioned off the famous crosswalk area so it seems like they're remaining vigilant, whether that's because of what happened in Seoul im not sure but regardless its good to see some action being taken
That's because shibuya officers actually gotten know this especially with hundreds of complaints about some weirdos harassing women in shibuya in halloween that they take action to it
@@cyrilmarasigan7108that might be part of the reason, but in my 7 years of living in Japan, there’s always police controlling human traffic in any big events, including festivals, concerts, halloween, and even during the World cup celebration just last week and even a few days ago, even tho it was early in the morning...
I've watched a bunch of Korean channels talk about this when it first happened, and it was just a question of *when* not *if,* because unfortunately much of human nature is cure rather than prevention. 😞 There were already party goers that were in Itaewon the night before the tragedy, and they were partying hard into the morning of the tragedy, and the crowds were already intense. Authorities should've known and been more prepared for it but they simply failed to do so. The first street party in Itaewon in 3 years with no mask requirements was always going to be massive, and many have mentioned that it was basically inevitable. The street in question slopes rather steeply downwards, and there are 3 streets that also bottleneck into the one juncture which makes crowd control even more necessary. I don't believe Halloween should be banned - the event/celebration is not the issue - but strict safety measures need to be enforced beforehand. The national period of mourning in SK also goes until November 5th.
I'm in South Korea, and the fundamental problem was systemic inflexibility. The Korean National Police took no measures at crowd control, even after the handful of police on scene reported the gathering crowds and fervently requested backup, because the KNP had dedicated those resources to a protest elsewhere that was much smaller and the KNP didn't have codified procedures for setting up crowd control at a large, unexpected event without an organizer. That meant somebody in the hierarchy would have had to stick their own neck out and make a decision to shift resources away from the protest to the brewing Halloween gathering without something in the books to back them up, and no one was willing to take the personal risk until well after the deaths had already occurred. That's the problem Japan will want to tackle, I think, because they have similar workplace culture problems relating to the risks involved in making decisions in the absence of clear guidance from superiors.
What was the protest about? Something political? Politicians sure are petty huh, allocating unnecessary resources to pretty much satisfy their desires huh?
This seems to be a big and reoccurring problem for Korea, where higher ups not losing face is more important than people's lives. I hope this will change one day.
I was literally across the street and I have to agree with you. Only saw Traffic Enforcement and EMTs as first responders. I thought for my first time in the country it they would have closed off the street for pedestrians.
this could have happened due to any sort of crowd, whether it be a holiday or a sports game. this easily could have been due to another holiday. (I assume there are others that bring people outside like Halloween does)
That was the fault of the S. Korean government. They knew they would have a crowd, they knew people wanted to hang out again after covid prevention was lifted, and they even had people calling since that afternoon, but they never took it seriously until too late. It was an excuse to say that there were no organizers like a BTS concert.
This reminds me a lot of what happened at a football stadium here in England, it’s just another tragedy that in hindsight could have been avoided. All they can do now is make more rules and regulations to make sure this doesn’t happen again. I feel really bad for the families of the victims though
Everything the most popular comments said + they did say the police officers in Korea didn't react fast enough. And from what I've seen of halloween on Kaho's stream in Shibuya police was literally everywhere. Japan is doing just fine when it comes to safety.
Regulate and monitor. Dont allow an insane amount of rowdy young adults in a confined space. If they want to party it up, go inside somewhere spread out. It would be like americans partying in the streets, except there’d be millions of people injured and murdered lol. Sad what happened to SK. And I am glad it didnt happen in Japan. I was worried it may.
i live in korea and i think the best thing any country can do is just learn from sk’s government’s mistakes. they had emergency calls coming in for hours asking for police intervention and it still happened. they should have closed off the main streets and in the past for festivals in itaewon they used small alleys like that for one way walk ways. i think halloween here is going to be a little different forever, but i hope a time comes when we can enjoy halloween here again someday. i would hate for other countries to go through that as well. (btw pronunciation is like ee-tae-one so you were close!)
According to people who were in the crushing and some reporters, this year in itaewon were little to none officers unlike the years before; there where no organizations taking care of the Halloween party, so it was responsibility of the local government of yeongsan; they didn't had officers available due to the actual president using the whole capacity of the yeongsan province police, because he didn't move to the blue house due to his chamán telling him the blue house had bad "Feng shui"; yeongsan police was complaining about not having staff available, taking blame for not being able to answer the 10+ calls they received from hours before the crushing; the people there were stupid for entering the alley when it was full, yet other years with the same amount of people nothing happened, giving them a fake sense of security; if there's someone to blame is the presidents and the local government for saying they didn't expected so much people even if it was the first Halloween party in years, it was obvious a lot of people were going, they should had make a plan. A lot of people saved themselves by leaving itaewon before or having crossed the intersection minutes before the crushing. The hashtags are Itaewon and 이태원 if you want to block them, the images are still graphic 😞 everything is so sad and that they could have avoid it makes it sadder
I was there (luckily wasn’t in the crush) and can confirm VERY few police (not sure I even saw one) were there. I heard at work they were with the president and saw videos of the same event in 2017 which was full of police and had 2x the attendees.
I am glad to see someone thinks as me in one aspect. As you said, "people there were stupid for entering the alley when it was full". I know they were expecting this night so much, but did no one stop to think at a certain point that the street was already crowded and left somewhere else? Is that the only street in the whole city to celebrate Halloween? And I go even further, MUST Halloween be celebrated at the risk (certainty I would say) of a disaster like that? I don't know, if you see it is too dangerous, just either go somewhere else or don't celebrate it. I simply don't get how things like that get to happen. If Korean people are so psychologically stressed that they are willing to take these risks, let me tell you one thing: they are really fucked up. Lastly, my condolences to all who were involved and to the 151 affected families.
@@haganeelric98 with the social pressure they have to leave their lives at school, college and the work it's no surprise really, one girl on insta who told her story and why she left Korea told how, when having problems, her boss told her to just begin drinking like the rest of them, it's awful to read and it's common 😞 And, also, the work comes first thing, there's one girl that's been for years in Mexico(a) now and recently she had to take her sister (b) with her, since the vacation the sister (b) took to see her (a), (the girl (a) can't go back to Korea or her burn out turns on and ends up on the hospital since day one) (b) she was force by her work to work until the morning not going home and to stay at work on the weekends because they were blaming her for taking a vacation when the others were working, she got so burnt her husband sent her to her sister (a) her story it's awful, and it's so normal the suicide rates are enough for Korea to be despairing 😞 Those are the stories I remember that prove why a lot don't care about their own security and only wanted to get drunk 😞
Thank you for the info on why this happened this year. I think the president should have his own security detail that travels with him wherever he goes instead of taking up so much police personnel. It makes no sense to subject an entire city to a police shortage for the safety of only one man. So selfish.
@@arlicelovely1689 That's so horrible. It sounds like Korea needs stricter worker's rights regulations to stop employers from abusing them like that. That is insane.
I've been going every year since 2015 and this was the first year I didn't attend. The ban on alcohol isn't new, it was in place for the last 3 years at least. Anti-masking protests have been taking place outside Shibuya station every year since the pandemic, lol. Worst thing I saw was a van trying to drive through a dense crowd in 2018. Guys started kicking the van, which only made the driver panic. Ended up seeing people caught between the van and a street railing and some dude dropped his box with a snake in it (??). Don't think anyone was hurt but it could have been much worse. Thing have been much more tame recently.
The very worst case is that they could probably ban mass volume crowds, but I don't see that happening. What made Seoul's incident deadly is the fact that it happened on a tight downward-sloping alley that is unregulated by not just the authority, but the the people within that crowd as well. Honestly if this type of crowd were to emerge in a flat level area, things would be nowhere near as bad or even non-existent compared to what happened in Seoul. Hell, many Japanese people are familiar with this setting during rush hours when they cram into sardine-packed subways. People just need to be aware and responsible.
This tragedy has really affected me personally, because something similar happened in my hometown outside a disco, and somebody from my secondary school actually died, so this did bring up some painful memories and I give love to all the families of the victims❤🕊
Halloween was a shitshow this year. I was coming back to London from a trip home and arrived to my station being evacuated because teenagers were firing fireworks at people. The loud evacuation notices, 100s of police, helicopter, fireworks etc. was no fun as I try and move along with my suitcase tryna figure out how tf I get home. And then I came home to the news of South Korea.
There were MULTIPLE phone calls to the police earlier that day asking them to come and control the traffic down that alley out of fear of an accident. Unfortunately they ignored them. Last year during Halloween, the police would come and break up large groups of people like this for covid and literally just ride around with sirens and ask people to leave an area if it got too poplar (especially in places like Hongdae and Itaewon which are meant for nightlife). It’s a shame that they decided it wasn’t worth the effort this time due to relaxed covid laws. I think that’s why it’s so frustrating, because it was preventable.
I really do not mean to come across as that ignorant American when saying this, I’m just speaking from personal experience here. I feel terrible for all those people. This is why you can’t completely trust local authority, not because of some misguided paranoia or conspiracy. But just for the simple fact of reality. Yes they are trusted and responsible for keeping the city safe, but it does not “guarantee” it. You absolutely have to be aware of your surroundings, do not just go with the flow and do what everybody else does. And even though probably not common in that part of the world, with things going on that are just increasingly disturbing, you can’t afford to not be cautious. You have to be alert, have an exit. And even then there’s only so much you can do, I remembered hearing about the whole Travis Scott concert debacle, and how painful and difficult that was for some people. It was a situation where people rushed past security and the ticket gates, also leading to a crowd crush. And it’s not really any of those concert goers fault, especially ones that were just already there and had paid for their tickets. Obviously the situation is different, and I don’t think there’s really anyone at fault, and by that I mean it didn’t seem to be a situation that was out of malice or intent to hurt people, if anything it seems to be more of an issue of preparation or failure to act.
I say this only partially jokingly, but combining America's penchant for both marketing and defining holidays with drinking, and Japan's unquestioning devotion to celebrating holidays is a recipe for disaster. That's not even layering on anything about COVID.
Yeah, what the fuck is up with that? Japan never celebreated anything until americans and foregners came over with their Halloween. Problem is, they mix american Halloween with brazilian Carnaval. And they sure as hell aren't equipped for that haha
@@Boyzby I think "marketed" is the wrong word. It's more about a correlation. Unless you are at a party that is specifically a sober party, usually for the sake of someone not wanting to be around alcohol, then drinking is going to be expected. Americans don't causally drink all that much. A lot of americans use holidays and celebrations to get wrecked, and then remain sober in between those times. Most brits I know consider Americans to be very sloppy binge drinkers. And I suspect that's why
Ultimately the crush in SK is a failure of public safety/event safety. Which is tough, because heading off the disaster probably needed to start hours before it happened. You can't control a sea of people, you can only stop it from forming. But your efforts will be made fun of if you send 100 safety officers to watch a crowd of 50 party goers. Maybe even called wasteful, so you get fewer resources for the next event.
No one to blame? The Yoon administration is to blame in my opinion. 1) He decided to move his office into the Yongsan District (Itaewon area) simply because his corrupt shaman didn't like the feng shui of the blue house. Due to this he uses 700 police officers DAILY just to escort him to the office. It's also because of him that the street was not blocked off for pedestrians on halloween. 2) 6000 police officers were sent to a small protest against the Yoon administration 10 mins away instead of focusing on the well known crowded Halloween event in itaewon. 3) Only 137 officers (58 in offical uniform) were sent to Itaewon with a focus on cracking down on minor drug related offenses NOT crowd control. 4) The polic officers had calls coming in about the dangerous crowds as early as 6:30pm. People were even physically walking over to an office which is a stones throw away from alley to warn them people where going to die. The officers did not react in time. In past years they have sent out hundreds of officers to manage the crowds in itaewon and there have been no casualties. This isn't the fault of the holiday or any of the young people who went there to have fun. They should have been safe.
As someone who doesn't drink, smoke, or partake in drugs. I only ever saw Halloween as a time for kids to have fun and get candy. When i heard about the street party i honestly had no clue how i would handle it because i don't take part in drinking and such. If people can find a way to have fun without those im all for it.👍 I still don't know what i would do there.🤣
Something around that Seoul story just seems shady. I mean i understand that people gathered together in a massive crowd, but how the feth did they get crushed by one another? I don't know if those people were really frail, but 150+ people going into cardiac arrest for being crushed by, well, other people, doesn't seem plausible. I've been dwelling in moshpits and i have had a fair share of beatdowns back in my day and i must say that a human body can stand a lot of pressure and damage before collapsing. That whole story is borderline fishy. That said, "banning" things is never the answer to anything, they should have planning to prevent what happened there and still have a couple of paramedics just in case. The best take here is prevention.
Japan has a better system when it comes to large celebrations . I’ve been to and have many friends in Japan. Every time I’ve been to and have seen some large gathering, Halloween or new year, there is always precautions and police present. I’ve never seen it get like that (s.k). And I might get a lot of angry comments but what happened in Korea was extremely stupid, I was almost amazed by the shear human stupidity *lack of preparation and control.
The a Korea thing... and how is this related to Japan??? I mean who in the right mind would be so packed up in a ramp... Oh, right a debt ridden country that has no space, no safty first... Just look at that ship seowl or the every 10 years economic crisis. Dont compare Japan to the soon to be homeless country.
Crowds can be in any festival, celebration, protest etc Banning one festival won't make a difference . If its known and estimated that at a particular day there is going to be huge crowd gathering Take better precautions to mobilize it so that everyone is safe. Banning or saying "don't go to crowded places" isn't the solution
Actually squeezes are completely predictable. When organizing an event there IS someone that is supposed to do logistics and insert measures that discourage people from packing wall to wall like sardines so that a squeeze doesn't happen; traffic cones or stanchions to leave open space, the strategic placement of anticipated high traffic areas, etc. And lastly, security to make sure people don't pour into these cordoned-off areas. This would have made it so that less people would be able to get in, but it also would have made it so that when the fall occurred that the crowd could properly disperse with this extra space. I imagine it being a public event made it so that nobody felt responsible for that role, and that led to something as tragic as this.
This is more human error than the holiday itself. Also, the areas are very different from each other. I've been around the Shibuya Crossing area, and from my opinion, even if there are even 100K people in the area, there are smaller intersecting streets that people can move to to avoid the crowd. Also, the streets are flat and well lit. The main hazard of Itaewon is that there are no organizers, the street itself is narrow with no way else to go but where the crowd is and is on an uphill road. It's sad that this happened in the first place.
Honestly I don't think they should ban it I think they should just take better precautions than Korea did to prevent things like this happening
This ☝️
I mean, not only the government/ police, the people also should understand when so many people where there. Where is their responsibility? It was doomed from the start.
Just deploy more police forces
@@PureWhiteWolf honestly!!! Like who goes, “hmmm this is super crowded, I’ll just join in this narrow space, surely nothing bad will happen!” Common sense can save lives, ppl…
@@autumnlove96able That is true, but as i see it. We live as sheeps, as long their is many people, more will come. We have rejected common sense a long time a go, it's very sad those who died and it's sad for their family and friends. But if they did have some common sense. Then those people would still be alive. What i fear the most, is that this will be forgotten and it will happen again.
I live in korea and had friends in Itaewon, luckily none were hurt
There were official transcripts released where people were calling police up to 4 hours before the incident and police not reacting properly or at all until the actual crush began. Officials have since apologized for this. It's horrible tragedy that may have been prevented but thats hindsight. Holidays like this aren't the issue Itaewon gets regularly busy like that and it's honestly surprising it didn't happen before.
There's a yearly medieval fair here in Portugal that takes place in an entire village. It's so popular that the police needs to siege the place and limit how many people get into it, because being an old village with tight walled streets, the exact same thing would happen here...
So Seul needed more crowd control like that, and after this tragedy I'm sure it will.
I lived in Osaka and goes to both this year and last year's Halloween, I think it is quite dense with people and crowds but the road/place in this case Doutonbori, Shinsaibashi theres still alot of spaces and not to mention theres police watching over managing the crowds, so I don't think it should be ban since Japan has a good place and management...
As Agent K once said, "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."
Fabulous video, Joseph!
Call him Joey.
@@TheOtakuDude No
@@TheOtakuDude I mean Josh really made a good video tho
Definitely such a scary, terrible, and devastating event that happened in South Korea. It boggled my mind to think that over 150 people were killed in such a way. That is almost equal to the death toll of the 2011 Joplin EF-5 Tornado. Just absolutely heartbreaking. My heart goes out to those individuals and their families. ❤️
Its a collective fault to the people who went out partying
i spent the early part of halloween handing out candy to trick or treaters, later in the evening i went to the costume party at the pub and late into the night iwas playing scary games with my friends on discord, pretty much what my halloween was like pre pandemic really and its an enjoyable evening.
the one thing is. this isn't uncommon in itewon. every year it's crowded asf.. but this year for some reason it failed.
I was in Shibuya at Halloween in 2018 and it was unbelievably packed. Just like this one except the area is not slopped. Scary and exciting at the same time.
This year's Halloween was really Scary.
I agree.
Reminds me of the Love Paradte incident in germany, basically the same sad story, too many people, very crowded and a festival :/
Yeah, other countries could and should learn from these tragedies to take preventive measures, even it means letting less people on the street at the same time.
America handled this much better instead of having 1 town host hallloween, they have the giant sports stadiums host the events with capacities of 15,000 to 100,000 for the adult/college students while kids would be taken to local neighborhoods going door to door for candy. Also Marijuana is still illegal in USA, there are only 19 states that have legalized it.
That's terrible. I hadn't heard anything about it. Thank you for covering it.
Obviously it is very tragic, but I also think it’s so interesting to see the cultural differences of the holiday in general. I think you hit the nail on the head with saying that the biggest difference is that Halloween is not like a neighborhood thing in Japan like it is in America. A lot of people in America see it as a holiday for children and for them to go trick or treating. But since they don’t really have that in Japan they jump to the part where you get drunk. I think it’s very similar to the drinking age in the States. Because a lot of Americans don’t get any access to alcohol before they are 21/go to college, once they are old enough they binge drink just for the hell of it.
trick or treating is practically begging with extra steps.
00:05 damn every single month???? I needa party w y’all
Its ironic that Halloween in old celtic culture is a celebration of living and the dead.
Wouldn't banning one event just concentrate people's desire to have fun into the remaining events even more? I'd think it would be better to get people to spread out the celebrations over more events -- maybe try to make some smaller events more popular in the future.
I don't think there were any precautions to be taken to prevent, this I've heard NYPD has to seal off time square on new years to but thats just to keep more people from coming. Not sure how it got that bad in Seoul without some kind of emergency going on before hand.
Not to make light of the situation but enoughpeople thought they could fit through a crowded narrow street that a mountain pilled up and 151 people died, that sounds so stupid, I say this as someone who was strampled by a stampede of high school students trying trying to exit the building the day before holiday break.
Crazy how a country like Korea, who was so strict concerning Covid, even it's people shunning foreigners and locals alike, abusive remarks and whatnot, and now this happens. Kinda sad and ironic at the same time.
"For us who Celebrate Halloween every single month" - Joey
"...The one day that young people can let go..." Speaks a lot about Japan. If the country wasn't as restrictive as it looks from the outside, then it might come to such extreme situations.
If Korea had remained a part of Japan this would never have happened
No, it's horrible and nightmarish and something has to be done in Korea. Korea other than being Asian compared to Japan isn't anywhere near as safe higher crime rate much more intense drinking society. Their introduction to western culture is like it's on fast forward compared to Japan's introduction which started on trains which sounds like hell on earth. Also Marijuana is not legal in more than a couple of states in America unless you have a Dr's prescription.
I’ve seen the footage and man it’s bad. Literally bodies of people laying around while people frantically performing cpr on them. Senseless loss of life
I honestly never really like Halloween at all in the first place
Hopefully this pushes for better architectural design of city streets especially for popular and crowded locations, banning the holiday makes no sense to me tbh.
2022 is the first year that I see Halloween actually got scary.
Its definitely bc its the first since the pandemic, we had a similar experience in Israel last lag ba Omer, its a holiday and one of the traditions is to "flatten on righteous grave".since it was the first time after the pandemic a lot more ppl went and 147 ppl got crushed and died.
Halloween wasn't really the issue, it could have been any event. It still boggles my mind how this could even happen.
why are they having a party in such a spot, with little space???
I don’t know much about the celebrations in Tokyo but why not hold other parties in locations other that just shibuya. Why not hold events in shinjuku and akihabara and ikebukuro and roppongi at the same time so you don’t have massive amounts of people in just one area
I live in Japan. Halloween in Japan has people dressed up everywhere in Tokyo. Shibuya has a wide variety of costumes. I have the impression that many people in Ikebukuro dress up as anime characters.
Very very very rarely does anything good come from the government banning something. So no, people just need to be more careful & responsible.
AWAITING 669K SUBSCRIBERS LETS GETIT!!!
Hearing about this made me think about new years eve in NYC when the ball drops at midnight. Those streets are flooded and jam pacted with people. Though there's never been such a horrific incident to my knowledge, knowing that it is possible if one of those nights become too rowdy for police to control, it's a scary thought. Same with the possibility of an unstable person pulling a 2019 Tokyo car attack as well. This accident surely sets a precedent for the seriousness of implementing public safety for events in general. RIP and my condolences to everyone.
Arguably you can _ban_ these kinds of things, and not in the way you'd normally do...ban more than 30 person gatherings in places where you'd see a whole crowd just compacted and starting to pressurize. Let them party in an open field with a thousand people. Just not in severely claustrophobic locations where you'd see this happen. And as a case for Japan, it can also be argued that all public partying like this _should_ be at an open field as well.
This remainds me so much of the loveparade 2010 here in germany where 21 people and here are now over 150?! I'm so fucking sad that something like this happend after all this bullshit the last years. Just seeing the pictures is just so crazy to imaging what those people had to experience.
The economy isn't the greatest, it's keeping the shops open and currency flowing.
It’s sad that these events happened, May All involved rip ❤
I did not know this happened...that's fucking insane...Thanks for telling us the news Joey
It is VERY different to the rest of the world and how we would treat them restrictions for a holiday, example: here in ireland (where you met my fella in a music shop up north in belfast), we have a holiday where all bars and sale of drink/booze is banned/closed and everyone gets the day off basically, our answer to these restrictions on our holiday?: EVERYONE buys a pile amount of drink the day before, so off-licenses/offies (liqueur stores) are barren if your not in the queue before the afternoon. ive seen a guy start a fight over a 12 pack of Harp beer.
We would not last long in japan, that or the japanese police would arrest irish accents on the spot
Tbh banning things will not stop/prevent bad things from happening.. sadly bad things happen and all we can do is learn from it and plan better next time.. humans are going to do what humans want too. In the end as individuals we need to come together and realize when things get out of hand and look after one another.. speak up when you know something is wrong and trust your instincts.
Many parties are to be blamed. Not no party is to be blamed.
I agree with you Joey. If I am not mistaken, there are a lot of cops in Japan's cities. The danger would have been spotted long before the crowds become dangerous.
Seeing a crowd like that i would have just party or gather else where. Have my fair share of crowded events but enough for shoulder to shoulder is too much. Knowing it can just take ignorant people to just push on to cause this.
There's just a bit of a cultural divide between the West and Asian countries when it comes to Halloween. I'm assuming the media they consume is showing them College level Halloween parties which admittedly can get a little crazy, but are usually constrained to a building and don't take over the streets en masse. The idea is to dress up to socialize and sort of celebrate the spooky vibes, but its nothing super serious and usually doesn't mean rioting in the streets. But I think the most prevalent sort of Western concept of Halloween is the suburban idea of kids going house to house trick or treating. It's a sort of fun and innocent concept where kids get to choose out what they want to be for halloween and then show off to their friends and neighbours while getting some candy. That's the idea and sort of the core spirit of the holiday.
It should NOT be a day to put on a mask and cause chaos. If you're doing that, you're really not getting it. Watch some horror movies with friends, make a fun costume and have fun hanging out because Halloween is about creativity and fun, not violence.
similar thing happened in indonesia like a week before the korean halloween tragedy, after a soccer game i believe so its not the holiday's fault its human error and there not being enough police around to control the flow of the people.
Idk if I would really truly blame anybody but there was many unresponded 112 calls (Korean 911) that has people saying stuff about how bad the crowd was and how they couldn’t get/turning dangerous. I wish they would’ve responded but then again I don’t know the entire situation of their gov and all that
Great 👍🏻 video nice 👍🏻 hype!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wonder what is the thought process of some people, seeing that huge ass crowd in a slope, just pushing and shoving each other, and goes "That seems like a fun time".
My claustrophobic ass couldn't
My condolences to those who died, but why did those deaths have to happen tho? They could have been avoided by doing something smart; stay away from troubles. This is why I don’t really like celebrations of any kind, because celebrations do have a tendency to attract stupid actions for some reason, to certain degree, and sometimes it is fatal.
1:23 you did and you are forgiven XD
i feel like halloween is a big thing for the gen z'ers in the international community
Yes
why would you want to go toward that
Japan don't have really narrow corridor on a slope like in Itaewon. But more personnels put into traffic on high crowd festive should have been a common sense implemented by authority cuz it's their job honestly.
If there's anything Japan is good at it is people being orderly and crowd control, so I don't think THAT is what Japan should be worried about. No Sarcasm.
I watched a video of the crowd crush happening. I saw a dozen of lifeless bodies wedged between other lifeless bodies like falling dominoes... that shit traumatized me. I DO NOT recommend watching it
no I was in Shibuya, and they had the situation under control
japans infrastructure is different from Koreas, so the chances of the incident happening in japans Halloween hubs is much lower (not impossible ofc)
It is not a holidays fault but an human error . A lot of things went horribly wrong all at once but you can't say that it couldn't have happend during any other big event or holiday .
So no . I don't think Japan should ban Halloween.
Instead , new rules and preventive measures should be put in place , so such tragedy never happens again .
This is how I feel. Surely there’s a reasonable middle ground between completely banning something and allowing it to get so out of hand it makes Philadelphia Eagles fans feel uncomfortable with the amount of chaos
Rules put in place might have contributed to that happening. Apparently south korea have some rule that limits the number of people allowed in each bar in relation to area, which causes long queues and massification outside. While inside is not even crowded. The natural order when bars are full is entering seeing it sucks and leaving the fuck out. Well that was replaced by everyone waiting to enter locals that did not let anyone in with no progression lmao
This is the saddest thing to hear about, in such an unusual circumstance.
still should be banned until mf grow brain cells
A big thing to keep in mind too is that a lot of these folks working front of house, security, event planning, etc have likely been out of work for some time.
Or, they’re brand new at doing this. Not sure about Seoul and Tokyo, but a lot of friends where I live (NYC) just left as they were suddenly out of work. Unless you’re affiliated with a big label or promoter like Insomniac or Boiler Room or something, nightclubs and venues run on tight margins.
That's terrifying, you're never catching me in a crowd like that. Nothing is worth that claustrophobic feeling and all the potential dangers.
I get that feeling during rush hour in Japan 😭
Japan had this literally on daily basis, that's called rush hour. The main difference is the people tried their best not to push each other, and also the crowd control group being actually competent. It is bad, but not something new or unexpected.
Crowds like this happen everyday in tokyo
That is how we are in the West because our population density even in big cities doesn't tend to be as extreme as in some Asian countries. People there had to overcome that natural instinct to avoid densely packed crowds to survive aspects of city life, which leaves them more vulnerable in situations like this where there is no crowd control present and the streets and alleyways are so narrow.
I think the solution would be to bar off the narrow areas during busy times like holidays or events, and only let a certain number of people in as though it were a carnival or something. That way they can prevent the crowds there from getting too dense. All attendees should be reminded to be patient and not push or move too close together. Tell everyone to keep an arm's length apart when on the move and not to block the walkways. Have some security scattered about to intervene if they see a dangerous crowd building up in one spot.
@KanashiiFX They LITERALLY had to be crushed every time they board a train in rush hour. The station attendant literally football tackled them into the cabin. The difference is of course, staying in order...
I've never been to Japan for Halloween, but Itaewon is a place with small streets and steep hills, it was a neighborhood mostly occupied by foreigners and outsiders back in the day, so it was not meant to have crowds of thousands of people like it does during Halloween. I would argue the police should've known crowds would be even worse than years before (and it HAS been bad years before COVID. Halloween weekend in Itaewon gets crazy, with hundreds of people riding the trains in full costumes and whatnot) but I agree that it was just an unfortunate event.
The thing that gets me about the Korean Halloween tragedy is that there was only 1 single cop trying to guide the crowd.
Banning Halloween because of this would be as stupid as the British banning Football because they had things like this happen in their stadiums. Take the time to figure out the what and the why things went wrong and FIX it.
he obviously made a clickbait title
@@purpleplanet888 Yeah, people seem to be ignoring this part totally. No official source in Japan is asking, "Should we *BAN* Halloween?", just attempting to avoid issues after a tragedy surrounding it the day prior and several issues that have popped up in previous Halloween celebrations (which are hardly any different than any other countries various celebration holidays). All he could do was say "Some old people question if it should be allowed"...yeah, no shit Joey, there are old people in every country in the world who don't understand the youth of several generations after them just like their great grandparents didn't understand them.
*tl'dr -* Ever since he started covering Japanese news with increasing frequency the titles have just ramped up to insane levels of clickbait and no fan wants to admit it.
@@Goldenkitten1 I admit he has been posting some topics I personally do not like on this channel. But I still enjoy the other contents joey make, especially the podcast and his collabs with Chris.
Spread awareness about guide to survive stampede
@@Goldenkitten1 I don't see what's wrong with the title. It's just a question to prompt discussion, not a statement. I didn't go into this with a false impression that Japan has set it's sights on banning Halloween. I went into it expecting a discussion about the Halloween culture in Japan and whether there are proper safety measures to prevent accidents from happening since Japan has had its fair share of Halloween-related incidents.
Pretty sure that stuff happens every year.... Not only at Halloween. I think it was just unfortunate that they got caught up in the middle of the crowds. But I do agree that proper measures should've been taken to prevent this from happening.
I had seen a video of one cop struggling to direct people on Reddit, just the one policeman. There should have been many more helping keep people spread out or moving.
@@sneedmando186 iirc people were calling the police hours before the incident worsened but unfortunately they didn't take the calls seriously
@@controlcon oh man that’s terrible. It makes me wonder if the police chief didn’t want to look bad or something
@@sneedmando186
Itaewon normally is always full it's a party/tourist area.
and maybe they had something else to do.
The people also hold responsibility for their actions. Because I saw people going left and right.
Everyone thought about themselves.
Which lead to the disaster.
Crowd crushes and human stampedes do happen relatively often. In fact the very next day there was another incident where 135 people died in India. It can happen at any time when there are more people than a location can comfortably hold.
There’s an article where some police call transcripts were revealed and multiple people called worried about other’s safety in an alleyway and the police kept saying that they’ll look into it and will send some police officers to where the reports were at and I personally think they just said it without doing anything since multiple people died that night in the alleyway and I think as long as the Japanese police officers listen to peoples reports it will be okay
I've been to itewon on non-holiday day and still felt claustrophobic... Maybe i am personally too used to cities with less population density. But it is clearly the authorities fault for not doing the crowd management. I have witnessed crowd management in dubai during new year celebrations - they had police officers fishing out people with small children and guiding them to metro station and volunteers handing out water bottles. In general being in that crowd was horrible but the crowd was handled good
I was at Shibuya Halloween this year and also in 2018. This year there were police officers stationed every few meters on stands above the crowd directing traffic and people with speakers, also directing the flow of walking right from the station. They were working their butts off and it felt so much safer and calmer compared to 2018. They definitely took notes and improved on controlling it in a safe way, so i dont think they have any need to ban it since they showed how well they could control it this year.
Quick answer: No, but be aware of this and try to prevent it as a society.
I watched a few livestreams of shibuya during Halloween and I did see police at certain points controlling the flow of people, they even sectioned off the famous crosswalk area so it seems like they're remaining vigilant, whether that's because of what happened in Seoul im not sure but regardless its good to see some action being taken
That's because shibuya officers actually gotten know this especially with hundreds of complaints about some weirdos harassing women in shibuya in halloween that they take action to it
@@cyrilmarasigan7108that might be part of the reason, but in my 7 years of living in Japan, there’s always police controlling human traffic in any big events, including festivals, concerts, halloween, and even during the World cup celebration just last week and even a few days ago, even tho it was early in the morning...
I've watched a bunch of Korean channels talk about this when it first happened, and it was just a question of *when* not *if,* because unfortunately much of human nature is cure rather than prevention. 😞 There were already party goers that were in Itaewon the night before the tragedy, and they were partying hard into the morning of the tragedy, and the crowds were already intense. Authorities should've known and been more prepared for it but they simply failed to do so. The first street party in Itaewon in 3 years with no mask requirements was always going to be massive, and many have mentioned that it was basically inevitable. The street in question slopes rather steeply downwards, and there are 3 streets that also bottleneck into the one juncture which makes crowd control even more necessary. I don't believe Halloween should be banned - the event/celebration is not the issue - but strict safety measures need to be enforced beforehand. The national period of mourning in SK also goes until November 5th.
I'm in South Korea, and the fundamental problem was systemic inflexibility. The Korean National Police took no measures at crowd control, even after the handful of police on scene reported the gathering crowds and fervently requested backup, because the KNP had dedicated those resources to a protest elsewhere that was much smaller and the KNP didn't have codified procedures for setting up crowd control at a large, unexpected event without an organizer.
That meant somebody in the hierarchy would have had to stick their own neck out and make a decision to shift resources away from the protest to the brewing Halloween gathering without something in the books to back them up, and no one was willing to take the personal risk until well after the deaths had already occurred.
That's the problem Japan will want to tackle, I think, because they have similar workplace culture problems relating to the risks involved in making decisions in the absence of clear guidance from superiors.
So basically the solution is ban it because they won’t be changing that
What was the protest about? Something political? Politicians sure are petty huh, allocating unnecessary resources to pretty much satisfy their desires huh?
This seems to be a big and reoccurring problem for Korea, where higher ups not losing face is more important than people's lives. I hope this will change one day.
I also hear there's just a simple lack of respect for the police in general in korea.
I was literally across the street and I have to agree with you. Only saw Traffic Enforcement and EMTs as first responders. I thought for my first time in the country it they would have closed off the street for pedestrians.
this could have happened due to any sort of crowd, whether it be a holiday or a sports game. this easily could have been due to another holiday. (I assume there are others that bring people outside like Halloween does)
That was the fault of the S. Korean government. They knew they would have a crowd, they knew people wanted to hang out again after covid prevention was lifted, and they even had people calling since that afternoon, but they never took it seriously until too late. It was an excuse to say that there were no organizers like a BTS concert.
This reminds me a lot of what happened at a football stadium here in England, it’s just another tragedy that in hindsight could have been avoided. All they can do now is make more rules and regulations to make sure this doesn’t happen again. I feel really bad for the families of the victims though
Everything the most popular comments said + they did say the police officers in Korea didn't react fast enough. And from what I've seen of halloween on Kaho's stream in Shibuya police was literally everywhere. Japan is doing just fine when it comes to safety.
Regulate and monitor. Dont allow an insane amount of rowdy young adults in a confined space. If they want to party it up, go inside somewhere spread out. It would be like americans partying in the streets, except there’d be millions of people injured and murdered lol. Sad what happened to SK. And I am glad it didnt happen in Japan. I was worried it may.
i live in korea and i think the best thing any country can do is just learn from sk’s government’s mistakes. they had emergency calls coming in for hours asking for police intervention and it still happened. they should have closed off the main streets and in the past for festivals in itaewon they used small alleys like that for one way walk ways.
i think halloween here is going to be a little different forever, but i hope a time comes when we can enjoy halloween here again someday. i would hate for other countries to go through that as well.
(btw pronunciation is like ee-tae-one so you were close!)
According to people who were in the crushing and some reporters, this year in itaewon were little to none officers unlike the years before; there where no organizations taking care of the Halloween party, so it was responsibility of the local government of yeongsan; they didn't had officers available due to the actual president using the whole capacity of the yeongsan province police, because he didn't move to the blue house due to his chamán telling him the blue house had bad "Feng shui"; yeongsan police was complaining about not having staff available, taking blame for not being able to answer the 10+ calls they received from hours before the crushing; the people there were stupid for entering the alley when it was full, yet other years with the same amount of people nothing happened, giving them a fake sense of security; if there's someone to blame is the presidents and the local government for saying they didn't expected so much people even if it was the first Halloween party in years, it was obvious a lot of people were going, they should had make a plan.
A lot of people saved themselves by leaving itaewon before or having crossed the intersection minutes before the crushing.
The hashtags are Itaewon and 이태원 if you want to block them, the images are still graphic 😞 everything is so sad and that they could have avoid it makes it sadder
I was there (luckily wasn’t in the crush) and can confirm VERY few police (not sure I even saw one) were there. I heard at work they were with the president and saw videos of the same event in 2017 which was full of police and had 2x the attendees.
I am glad to see someone thinks as me in one aspect. As you said, "people there were stupid for entering the alley when it was full". I know they were expecting this night so much, but did no one stop to think at a certain point that the street was already crowded and left somewhere else? Is that the only street in the whole city to celebrate Halloween? And I go even further, MUST Halloween be celebrated at the risk (certainty I would say) of a disaster like that?
I don't know, if you see it is too dangerous, just either go somewhere else or don't celebrate it.
I simply don't get how things like that get to happen.
If Korean people are so psychologically stressed that they are willing to take these risks, let me tell you one thing: they are really fucked up.
Lastly, my condolences to all who were involved and to the 151 affected families.
@@haganeelric98 with the social pressure they have to leave their lives at school, college and the work it's no surprise really, one girl on insta who told her story and why she left Korea told how, when having problems, her boss told her to just begin drinking like the rest of them, it's awful to read and it's common 😞
And, also, the work comes first thing, there's one girl that's been for years in Mexico(a) now and recently she had to take her sister (b) with her, since the vacation the sister (b) took to see her (a), (the girl (a) can't go back to Korea or her burn out turns on and ends up on the hospital since day one) (b) she was force by her work to work until the morning not going home and to stay at work on the weekends because they were blaming her for taking a vacation when the others were working, she got so burnt her husband sent her to her sister (a) her story it's awful, and it's so normal the suicide rates are enough for Korea to be despairing 😞
Those are the stories I remember that prove why a lot don't care about their own security and only wanted to get drunk 😞
Thank you for the info on why this happened this year. I think the president should have his own security detail that travels with him wherever he goes instead of taking up so much police personnel. It makes no sense to subject an entire city to a police shortage for the safety of only one man. So selfish.
@@arlicelovely1689 That's so horrible. It sounds like Korea needs stricter worker's rights regulations to stop employers from abusing them like that. That is insane.
I've been going every year since 2015 and this was the first year I didn't attend. The ban on alcohol isn't new, it was in place for the last 3 years at least. Anti-masking protests have been taking place outside Shibuya station every year since the pandemic, lol.
Worst thing I saw was a van trying to drive through a dense crowd in 2018. Guys started kicking the van, which only made the driver panic. Ended up seeing people caught between the van and a street railing and some dude dropped his box with a snake in it (??). Don't think anyone was hurt but it could have been much worse. Thing have been much more tame recently.
The very worst case is that they could probably ban mass volume crowds, but I don't see that happening. What made Seoul's incident deadly is the fact that it happened on a tight downward-sloping alley that is unregulated by not just the authority, but the the people within that crowd as well. Honestly if this type of crowd were to emerge in a flat level area, things would be nowhere near as bad or even non-existent compared to what happened in Seoul. Hell, many Japanese people are familiar with this setting during rush hours when they cram into sardine-packed subways. People just need to be aware and responsible.
This tragedy has really affected me personally, because something similar happened in my hometown outside a disco, and somebody from my secondary school actually died, so this did bring up some painful memories and I give love to all the families of the victims❤🕊
Halloween was a shitshow this year. I was coming back to London from a trip home and arrived to my station being evacuated because teenagers were firing fireworks at people. The loud evacuation notices, 100s of police, helicopter, fireworks etc. was no fun as I try and move along with my suitcase tryna figure out how tf I get home. And then I came home to the news of South Korea.
What part of London is this??? Lived here my whole life and never heard anything close
@@thundurr This was this Monday Statford Station.
@@pixielove25 Ah Stratford, that explains it, i was thinking more central
There were MULTIPLE phone calls to the police earlier that day asking them to come and control the traffic down that alley out of fear of an accident. Unfortunately they ignored them. Last year during Halloween, the police would come and break up large groups of people like this for covid and literally just ride around with sirens and ask people to leave an area if it got too poplar (especially in places like Hongdae and Itaewon which are meant for nightlife). It’s a shame that they decided it wasn’t worth the effort this time due to relaxed covid laws. I think that’s why it’s so frustrating, because it was preventable.
Asian countries should take note from NYC, and do a family friendly parade. There’s rarely ever a problem in the Halloween parade at NYC.
I really do not mean to come across as that ignorant American when saying this, I’m just speaking from personal experience here. I feel terrible for all those people.
This is why you can’t completely trust local authority, not because of some misguided paranoia or conspiracy. But just for the simple fact of reality. Yes they are trusted and responsible for keeping the city safe, but it does not “guarantee” it.
You absolutely have to be aware of your surroundings, do not just go with the flow and do what everybody else does. And even though probably not common in that part of the world, with things going on that are just increasingly disturbing, you can’t afford to not be cautious.
You have to be alert, have an exit.
And even then there’s only so much you can do, I remembered hearing about the whole Travis Scott concert debacle, and how painful and difficult that was for some people. It was a situation where people rushed past security and the ticket gates, also leading to a crowd crush. And it’s not really any of those concert goers fault, especially ones that were just already there and had paid for their tickets.
Obviously the situation is different, and I don’t think there’s really anyone at fault, and by that I mean it didn’t seem to be a situation that was out of malice or intent to hurt people, if anything it seems to be more of an issue of preparation or failure to act.
I say this only partially jokingly, but combining America's penchant for both marketing and defining holidays with drinking, and Japan's unquestioning devotion to celebrating holidays is a recipe for disaster. That's not even layering on anything about COVID.
Could you imagine what would happen if Japan chooses trick instead of treat?
Yeah, what the fuck is up with that? Japan never celebreated anything until americans and foregners came over with their Halloween. Problem is, they mix american Halloween with brazilian Carnaval. And they sure as hell aren't equipped for that haha
I've never really seen holidays marketed to be drinking days, except St Patrick's Day and by alcohol companies, obviously because they want money.
@@Boyzby You're right. I forgot the 10% of Independence Day that's fireworks.
@@Boyzby I think "marketed" is the wrong word. It's more about a correlation. Unless you are at a party that is specifically a sober party, usually for the sake of someone not wanting to be around alcohol, then drinking is going to be expected. Americans don't causally drink all that much. A lot of americans use holidays and celebrations to get wrecked, and then remain sober in between those times.
Most brits I know consider Americans to be very sloppy binge drinkers. And I suspect that's why
Hearing what happened in Seoul is so tragic and heartbreaking 😢
韓国の事件は、韓国の国民性の問題であって、ハロウィーンとは関係ありませんよ。だから、ほとんどの日本人は、渋谷のハロウィーン中止などは考えないでしょう。
Ultimately the crush in SK is a failure of public safety/event safety. Which is tough, because heading off the disaster probably needed to start hours before it happened. You can't control a sea of people, you can only stop it from forming. But your efforts will be made fun of if you send 100 safety officers to watch a crowd of 50 party goers. Maybe even called wasteful, so you get fewer resources for the next event.
No one to blame? The Yoon administration is to blame in my opinion.
1) He decided to move his office into the Yongsan District (Itaewon area) simply because his corrupt shaman didn't like the feng shui of the blue house.
Due to this he uses 700 police officers DAILY just to escort him to the office. It's also because of him that the street was not blocked off for pedestrians on halloween.
2) 6000 police officers were sent to a small protest against the Yoon administration 10 mins away instead of focusing on the well known crowded Halloween event in itaewon.
3) Only 137 officers (58 in offical uniform) were sent to Itaewon with a focus on cracking down on minor drug related offenses NOT crowd control.
4) The polic officers had calls coming in about the dangerous crowds as early as 6:30pm. People were even physically walking over to an office which is a stones throw away from alley to warn them people where going to die. The officers did not react in time.
In past years they have sent out hundreds of officers to manage the crowds in itaewon and there have been no casualties. This isn't the fault of the holiday or any of the young people who went there to have fun. They should have been safe.
As someone who doesn't drink, smoke, or partake in drugs. I only ever saw Halloween as a time for kids to have fun and get candy.
When i heard about the street party i honestly had no clue how i would handle it because i don't take part in drinking and such.
If people can find a way to have fun without those im all for it.👍
I still don't know what i would do there.🤣
Something around that Seoul story just seems shady. I mean i understand that people gathered together in a massive crowd, but how the feth did they get crushed by one another? I don't know if those people were really frail, but 150+ people going into cardiac arrest for being crushed by, well, other people, doesn't seem plausible. I've been dwelling in moshpits and i have had a fair share of beatdowns back in my day and i must say that a human body can stand a lot of pressure and damage before collapsing. That whole story is borderline fishy.
That said, "banning" things is never the answer to anything, they should have planning to prevent what happened there and still have a couple of paramedics just in case. The best take here is prevention.
Japan has a better system when it comes to large celebrations . I’ve been to and have many friends in Japan. Every time I’ve been to and have seen some large gathering, Halloween or new year, there is always precautions and police present. I’ve never seen it get like that (s.k). And I might get a lot of angry comments but what happened in Korea was extremely stupid, I was almost amazed by the shear human stupidity *lack of preparation and control.
The a Korea thing... and how is this related to Japan??? I mean who in the right mind would be so packed up in a ramp... Oh, right a debt ridden country that has no space, no safty first...
Just look at that ship seowl or the every 10 years economic crisis. Dont compare Japan to the soon to be homeless country.
Crowds can be in any festival, celebration, protest etc
Banning one festival won't make a difference .
If its known and estimated that at a particular day there is going to be huge crowd gathering
Take better precautions to mobilize it so that everyone is safe.
Banning or saying "don't go to crowded places" isn't the solution
Actually squeezes are completely predictable. When organizing an event there IS someone that is supposed to do logistics and insert measures that discourage people from packing wall to wall like sardines so that a squeeze doesn't happen; traffic cones or stanchions to leave open space, the strategic placement of anticipated high traffic areas, etc. And lastly, security to make sure people don't pour into these cordoned-off areas. This would have made it so that less people would be able to get in, but it also would have made it so that when the fall occurred that the crowd could properly disperse with this extra space.
I imagine it being a public event made it so that nobody felt responsible for that role, and that led to something as tragic as this.
This is more human error than the holiday itself.
Also, the areas are very different from each other.
I've been around the Shibuya Crossing area, and from my opinion, even if there are even 100K people in the area, there are smaller intersecting streets that people can move to to avoid the crowd. Also, the streets are flat and well lit.
The main hazard of Itaewon is that there are no organizers, the street itself is narrow with no way else to go but where the crowd is and is on an uphill road.
It's sad that this happened in the first place.