Still remember the day I bought the Second Coming vividly. Bought it at 9am when the my local record shop opened and Everton beat Liverpool in Joe Royle's first game as Everton manager on the Monday night game. It was a day I'll never forget. Second Coming was probably the most anticipated album I've ever bought. Myself and my friends were huge Roses fans. I really enjoy the album, but it's a grower.
Great memories Gavin! I remember getting it on CD and going round to a friend's house to get stoned and listen to it. We were pretty impressed at the time, but it tapered off a bit after a few listens. Then I lost my CD of it and didn't hear it for decades, so it's been quite nice getting reacquainted with it.
Great idea and could not agree more with the picks except for Oldfield as I have only owned Tubular Bells. Real interesting info on Traveling Wilbury’s second album. I was unaware of that with Dylan. Great stuff James
I really loved this video. It was wild when you showed the cover of Hergest Ridge. My brother picked up a copy years ago, right around the time it came out. I was disappointed it wasn't Tubular bells, but after my first listen...there were lots of listens. it's one of my favorite albums these days, especially the first side. I've listened to that a bunch of times and I could listen a bunch more. i tried that new stereo mix that was out in 2010 which wasn't quite as good as the original. It may have been murky to some ears, but i think the original mix is just perfect. I didn't think at the time that this could be a better album than Tubular bells. SUBSCRIBED!
Hey James, Good catching up with this. Ah yes....for years Hergest Ridge was third behind Tubular Bells and Ommadawn beng my favorite until a few summers ago upon revisiting everything I have by Mike...I heard and felf things in Hergest that I hadn't before and it's now my second favorite...just beautiful all around. Looking forward to your part two and catching up on your Tubular. 🙂-Carm
Thanks Carm. If you do check out my TB video, there's a link in the description to a great documentary about the making of the album. You may have seen it already, but if not it's worth checking out. Hope you are doing well, speak soon.
Saucerful is an album i don't remember for sure if i've heard it or not. It's been a great interest for me for years. Today i think Goats Head Soup is well overshadowed by Exile On Main st, but was it at the time since Exile was hated then? Nirvana In Utero clearly is in the shadow of Nevermind, but then again it was designed to be so. One album i don't think is overshadowed (which is remarkable) is Wish You Were Here. Dark Side was more than massive and continues to be, but i still think WYWH stands on it's own feet. Interesting info on Wilburys Vol.3 Pasi
Hi Pasi...yes I meant to mention some bands who did manage to do two major album in a row and Wish you Were Here came to mind. More coming up in part 2. Thank.
Ah yes, the eminent Reality Stab. Such a masterful piece of pop craft. Love that album. And yeah, «poor» Venus and Mars as well. I do adore it, but, Red Rose Speedway as well. Very well thought of this, Living in the Material World. Goegeous… Cheers James, Morten.
Seeing Goo by Sonic Youth in the background, I thought that it would be mentioned, as it's a good album that has been overshadowed by its predecessor, Daydream Nation. Some other good albums that have been overshadowed by their predecessors: Bossanova by Pixies, Tusk by Fleetwood Mac, 52nd Street by Billy Joel, Wha'ppen by The (English) Beat, Desire by Bob Dylan, His Band & Street Choir by Van Morrison, and to a lesser extent (lesser in terms of being overshadowed), Strange Days by The Doors and Darkness on the Edge of Town by Bruce Springsteen.
Good point about Goo, I should have talked about that. I prefer it to DM, for a start because it's way shorter and more compact. I would have featured Strange Days, but I lost my copy back in the day!
Really agree with the charity shop comment. Many years past I saw albums and thought the same, oh not as good as… In hindsight I missed out on some real wonders. Got them on CD but would’ve loved the original vinyl - in those days in very good condition.
Hi James, great idea for a video. i love both Stone Roses albums, John Squire has a collaboration album with Liam Gallagher out this week, the lead off single "mars to liverpool" is pretty good IMO. i think Venus And Mars is a better album IMO. also prefer Living In The Material World over ATMP. love both of those Tom Petty albums. still prefer the first Wilbury's album but the second one is still pretty good
Thanks Lloyd. I talk to quite a lot of people who prefer Venus and Mars to Band on the Run these days. I have heard the Squire/Gallagher collaboration. I thought it was OK musically but I'm really not a fan of Liam I'm afraid.
The sound when you opened the George Harrison Gatefold! 😅 Same sound here when I open my copy. I have a stronger relationship with Living in the material world than All things must pass. ❤
When “Venus & Mars” came out in 1975 I was not disappointed by it at all, in fact I think I preferred it over “Band On The Run” actually. I liked everything about it - the sound of it, the songs, the artwork, and the packaging. I was fifteen, and probably was part of the target audience that the album was aimed at.. Now, many, many, years later I still like Venus & Mars” but it doesn’t appeal quite as much to me as it did then, and I prefer “Band On The Run” now. Nice topic for a video Hanes c
In the case of Wings and Tom Petty i actually prefer Venus and mars over band on the run and Into the great wide open over full moon fever. another example is "a day at the races" by queen, but in this case i prefer a "night at the opera"
I was worried when this started that you'd just slung the dog out the way over to the sofa! I keep seeing Hergest Ridge almost every time I go out now. I have that Harrison, my hopes of exchanging it for All things must pass are now dashed!
@@jamesgriffithsmusic Good to know🐕👍 apologies, I was reading far too much into 'JB sent me this'/critics hating ABCs second 🤔😊. Changing the subject, I saw a comment about The Who's 'The Who Sell Out' standing up as an album to Saucerful Of Secrets and Sgt Peppers (cough)! But it got me thinking, having just listened to Pete Townshend's Rael (parts 1-9) demos (which in places does sound a bit Floydish) , about preceding albums/bits of albums that gave rise to masterpieces. EG Sell Outs Rael and A Quick One, while hes away giving rise to Tommy (amongst other things).
Interesting James. It's got me thinking about when is an album overshadowed by the influence of the previous album, and was always up against it, versus it was just inferior (albeit slightly) to a seminal great album. I think Hergest Ridge is a great example of the former because Tubular Bells, as well as being great, had the additional benefit of introducing the whole Mike Oldfield 'thing' (you only get one chance to make a first impression). Plus it played out in real time, at the time. Whereas I think Obscured by Clouds was just not as good as Piper for a host of reasons. I don't think Piper was a monster chart success, so I think it's more apparent looking back that it was overshadowed. I'll stop there as I'm at risk of over thinking this - cheers for provoking the thoughts...
Good points Dale. I did think about talking about the difference you're describing here, but then I thought maybe that got a bit subjective. There are some more interesting examples coming up in part 2, and I'd say some of those were definitely 'inferior' as well as being overshadowed. Now I'm wondering if there's an example of an album that was overshadowed by its predecessor despite actually being better than it?
• Fleetwood Mac - Tusk • Prince & The Revolution- Around The World In A Day • REM - Monster • Beastie Boys - Paul’s Boutique • Rolling Stones - Goat’s Head Soup • Led Zeppelin - Houses Of The Holy • The Strokes - Room On Fire • Bruce Springsteen - Tunnel Of Love • Teenage Fanclub - Thirteen • Liz Phair - Whip-Smart • Primal Scream - Give Out But Don’t Give Up
Good suggestions Phil. I thought about including Monster. Houses of the Holy is an interesting one, as these days I talk to a lot of people who like it more than Led Zep IV, so I wasn't entirely sure if it is overlooked anymore. It's undoubtedly lacking a 'Stairway' moment though, to say nothing of When the Levee Breaks, Black Dog etc. I love 'No Quarter' off Houses, it's my favourite Zep track.
@@jamesgriffithsmusicyeah, I like houses as much, probably more than IV... WhipSmart definitely was a major let down after Exile. It was a clear downward spiral for Liz phair after Exile.
I've always thought of those two first Pink Floyd albums as a pair. In fact I don't think I've ever experienced them separately at all. I first got them two sides of a C90, then I was given original cassettes of them both from a friend. My only vinyl copies are the A Nice Pair released in 74. I've never thought of that until now. Ah, nice. I wondered if you were going to show Beauty Stab. I heard The Look Of Love on Radio 2 today. Put me in the mood for ABC. I'm trying to think of some of these now, but all that comes to mind is Slip Of The Tongue by Whitesnake. It followed two years after the '1987' album. Similar formula with the only main difference being that John Sykes was out and Steve Via was in. John Sykes has always caried with him a very broad sounding power chord type of style and Steve Via obviously is renowned for his particular seven string guitar solos... but apart from that is all the same guff, but it was nowhere near as popular. Now I come to think of it ZZ Top's Afterburner that came after Eliminator suffered in much the same way. Afterburner basically refines the successful formula of it's predecessor but by doing that it seems to have lost the interest of the fans along the way.
Thanks John. I know what you mean about Piper and Saucerful, they do seem to be a pair thanks largely to having been packaged as one after the event. The 'Nice Pair' comp was put together largely to create some revenue for Syd Barrett, who by 1974 was burning through his money while living at the Hilton Hotel. The Hipgnosis guys went round to his penthouse to try and get him to cooperate on the artwork for the album, but he told them to fuck off and slammed the door in their faces. I've still never heard Slip of the Tongue by the way.
My greyhound does that all the time. The Stone Roses had a second album? Saucerful is great, but I probably think that because of A Nice Pair where they both kind of blend together nicely (though it is of course obvious this is a different album from Piper). I like Learning to Fly better, and I think its the last great TP album.
I never particularly enjoyed Hergest Ridge, or rated it possibly unfairly, because it just wasn't as good as Tubular Bells. I really like Venus and Mars, Love in Song is fabulous..again, difficult to compete with Band on the Run, Macca was onto a loser whatever he did afterwards. I just never got the appeal of The Stone Roses..i recall eagerly awaiting the first album.. it's arrival with my brother and then after we had played it we just kinda looked at each other as if to say ' is that it?'. Comparing Living in the Material World to All Things Must Pass is a little unfair, because ATMP is a triple album..however if you remove the tedious apple jams album and some of the weaker songs, you could end up with an album on a par in my opinion. I prefer ' Piper' over ' Saucerful' by virtue of the fact that i've played it a lot more and therefore a lot more familiar..that said, i love Richard Wrights' Remember A Day '..incredible song. Great idea for a video James, entertaining.
Hi Rob. I've got a friend who had the same reaction to The Stone Roses back in the day, but he gave the album a listen last year and it suddenly made sense to him, so maybe give it another go. Not being from Manchester, I don't have a tribal connection to the Roses like a lot of people seem to. I thought it was a worthy, interesting debut overall but maybe they're one of those bands you had to see live to really appreciate 'the magic'. Remi is a great drummer I think, really natural and unique in his approach. I'm with you on Piper versus Saucerful. I remember when I got the 'Nice Pair' record as a kid, I enjoyed both records but I played Piper way more.
Montrose and Van Halen immediately spring to mind. I was just playing one of those mind. Interesting video. I guess all bands peak and the next one is not so good. Cheers James, Chris
@@jamesgriffithsmusic theme for a video might be When Bands a peaked on Their Debut. There’s a few of those. Interestingly VH and Montrose fir that bill for me.
ABC, I suppose I have never paid a great deal of attention to them...mostly known here for those few glossy early 80's pop hits, I am not sure I have ever listened to a full album of theirs. Tweeter & the Monkey Man, I suspect I still know most of the words to that...Bob sounding as if he was having a good bit of fun, a lark if you will with tongue firmly in cheek...still to this day do not own Piper or Saucerful and never heard them...I think you could come up with many more examples of overshadowing, there's a long history of big successes that then cast a pall over whatever comes next...cheers!
Hi Doug...yes you're right, there are plenty more examples and they'll be in part 2! Dylan was definitely enjoying himself on Tweeter. There isn't really anything like that on Vol 3. ABC had a lyrical edge and a political dimension that wasn't immediately obvious underneath all the high-end gloss of the production. It came through more on Beauty Stab with the grungier production.
Born in the USA was epic and Springsteen was spooked, intentionally changed things and went in a different direction. Tunnel of Love saw a partial break up of the band, kind of, before the actual one after 1988. Stage places were changed, clothes were changed... tunnel of love is better as a piece of work maybe, and loved... but everyone else wanted USA 2. Arguably it's the second time Bruce has done this. There's a massive story behind his follow up to Born to Run and there's reasons it's a departure from expectations but Darkness is not Born to Run. Those are two I thought of. Also as a manc I have to say you're correct about the Roses. As a follow up it's nothing close but as an album by itself it's alright. The issue as you say was, look at their debut. Yikes.
Before I watched this, James, I thought, is he going to talk about Beauty Stab? And after you did I have to opine that for me the entire first side is one of the best sides of any album. Kudos for seeing the good in Venus and Mars and Hergest Ridge. Next up, maybe you can do records where one side is so much better than the other. But leave Abbey Road alone.
Hi Paul. I have done a video on just that theme - a collaboration with Richard McCook last year. Let me know if you can't find it, and I'll send the link.
For me: - Jimi Hendrix: Axis: Bold as Love It's never talked about as much as Are You Experienced or Electric Ladyland, but it's a great album in its own right. - King Crimson: In the Wake of Poseidon Usually thought of as a pale copy of their debut In the Court of the Crimson King (although I find it hard to imagine "Cat Food" and "The Devil's Triangle" being on their debut), it's still a great album. - Jefferson Airplane: After Bathing at Baxter's Surrealistic Pillow made the Airplane into a household name of 1960s psychedelic rock with "White Rabbit" and "Somebody to Love" being big hits. After Bathing at Baxter's is the follow-up and far less accessible and much more experimental, with no major hits like its predecessor has, but I still really enjoy this album. - Led Zeppelin: Presence It's the followup to Physical Graffiti, but it's probably the least talked about of the Zeppelin albums. - Jethro Tull: A Passion Play Thick as a Brick is highly regarded by fans. Many fans do also highly regard A Passion Play, but it's less accessible and more serious in tone (except "The Story of the Hare Who Lost His Spectacles"), so not everyone was on board, and of course it was slammed by rock critics. - INXS: X Never going to match the huge success of Kick, and it wasn't as good either. "Suicide Blonde" and "Disappear" did get airplay. - Nirvana: In Utero So much is said about Nevemind that anything that they might follow it up with will always be foreshadowed, and In Utero is that example. I can't claim I'm a Nirvana expert as I was never a fan of them but it's pretty safe to say this opinion is shared by everyone. - Deep Purple: Who Do We Think We Are It follows the massively popular Machine Head and usually thought of as the weakest of the Mark II lineup albums. Personally, I don't find it that bad. - AC/DC: For Those Who Are About to Rock, We Salute You Back in Black needs no explaining, but the 1981 follow-up never held a candle to its predecessor. It's not as highly regarded or talked about as much.
With The Beach Boys, Smiley Smile was not an ideal follow-up to Pet Sounds. But Psychedelia was exploding, and another Pet Sounds album would by then have seemed mighty out-fashioned against the likes of Jimi Hendrix, Cream, The Doors, Jefferson Airplane ETC, so they were in a grey area. I don't think The Doors second album was as good as their first. How could Paul Simon follow Graceland, with an album that was similar but not as good, and not nearly such a huge seller.
ABC could never rematch their first album The Lexicon Of Love and I did not like the other releases they did. Then, they lost succes fading into oblivion. Recently I relistened to Beauty Stab, How To Be A Zillionaire and Alphabet City. I finally found that these are very good albums 40 years later.
Yes I loved Venus and Mars! I got tired of Band On The Run.........it was IMO over played. I'd rather be alone then in a crowd sometimes, if you know what I mean! Same with George's Living in The Material World.
Living in the Material World would not have gotten George Harrison a record deal, if he hadn't been a Beatle. It was the antithesis of All Things Must Pass, and doesn't hold a candle to any of his songs from the Beatles era. It is better than Dark Horse, Extra Texture, Thirty-Three and One-Third, George Harrison, Somewhere in England, and Gone Troppo, but that is faint praise, indeed. Similarly, Saucer Full of Secrets is "better" than More, Ummagumma (studio sides), and Obscured by Clouds, and those songs contributed to the Zabriskie Point soundtrack, with only the longer half of Atom Heart Mother interrupting the snooze fest those LPs/songs engendered. They were "inventing" their oeuvre, so Floyd gets a pass. I didn't hear anything on the ABC LP that made me want to hear more, so the second album is a wash. Into the Great Wide Open is a good album, not quite up to the standards of the band's first three, but it's better than the two LPs that preceded Full Moon Fever. Neither Wilburys album is a great record. There are great songs on both, but about as many clunkers. It's hard to believe as talented a crew could come up with dry-as-zwieback toast songs, but creativity is not an on-demand skill. Dylan was floundering, at the time, and Jeff Lynne was iwearing a number of hats, George was coming off Cloud Nine, his finest album since ATMP, Roy Orbison had released the first great album, Mystery Girl, of his career. Petty was still at cruising altitude, having the time of his life. The band phoned the second album in. There are better choices, Stage Fright, For Everyman, Axis: Bold as Love, Wow, Again, To Our Children's Children's Children, The Who by Numbers, Pretenders II, Village Green Preservation Society, The Long Run, Speaking in Tongues, et al.
Venus and Mars is a Far Superior Album to Band on the Run. The childish keyboard played on the Title Track of Band on the Run makes it unlistenable I never understood why BOTR was so popular Jet=a nothing song Helen Wheels just more drivel BTW Jeff Lynne should stay away from production He loves compression which sounds awful on any decent Stereo System
Still remember the day I bought the Second Coming vividly. Bought it at 9am when the my local record shop opened and Everton beat Liverpool in Joe Royle's first game as Everton manager on the Monday night game. It was a day I'll never forget. Second Coming was probably the most anticipated album I've ever bought. Myself and my friends were huge Roses fans. I really enjoy the album, but it's a grower.
Great memories Gavin! I remember getting it on CD and going round to a friend's house to get stoned and listen to it. We were pretty impressed at the time, but it tapered off a bit after a few listens. Then I lost my CD of it and didn't hear it for decades, so it's been quite nice getting reacquainted with it.
Great idea and could not agree more with the picks except for Oldfield as I have only owned Tubular Bells. Real interesting info on Traveling Wilbury’s second album. I was unaware of that with Dylan. Great stuff James
Thanks Steve. I am nothing if not a hive of useless info.
I think Saucerful Of Secrets is as good as the debut.
Me too!
Syd is actually on three tracks, Remember a Day and Set the Controls in addition to Jugband Blues.
@@JustFortheRecord66 yes
Piper has the edge for me because of the Syd songs.
@@jamesgriffithsmusicSaucer is okay, but Pipers is groundbreaking and brilliant.
Hello James. I really enjoyed this topic... very interesting. The sophomore struggle is real for many artists/bands. Well done! Cheers!
Thanks Chris. Funnily enough, not all of these were sophomore albums but a fair few were!
The upside down dog image at the start of your video would make a great album cover -- sort of the flip of Alice in Chains' 1995 EP cover.
I really loved this video. It was wild when you showed the cover of Hergest Ridge. My brother picked up a copy years ago, right around the time it came out. I was disappointed it wasn't Tubular bells, but after my first listen...there were lots of listens. it's one of my favorite albums these days, especially the first side. I've listened to that a bunch of times and I could listen a bunch more. i tried that new stereo mix that was out in 2010 which wasn't quite as good as the original. It may have been murky to some ears, but i think the original mix is just perfect. I didn't think at the time that this could be a better album than Tubular bells. SUBSCRIBED!
Glad you enjoyed the video and thanks for sharing your thoughts and subscribing!
Hey James, Good catching up with this. Ah yes....for years Hergest Ridge was third behind Tubular Bells and Ommadawn beng my favorite until a few summers ago upon revisiting everything I have by Mike...I heard and felf things in Hergest that I hadn't before and it's now my second favorite...just beautiful all around. Looking forward to your part two and catching up on your Tubular. 🙂-Carm
Thanks Carm. If you do check out my TB video, there's a link in the description to a great documentary about the making of the album. You may have seen it already, but if not it's worth checking out. Hope you are doing well, speak soon.
Saucerful is an album i don't remember for sure if i've heard it or not. It's been a great interest for me for years.
Today i think Goats Head Soup is well overshadowed by Exile On Main st, but was it at the time since Exile was hated then?
Nirvana In Utero clearly is in the shadow of Nevermind, but then again it was designed to be so.
One album i don't think is overshadowed (which is remarkable) is Wish You Were Here. Dark Side was more than massive and continues to be, but i still think WYWH stands on it's own feet.
Interesting info on Wilburys Vol.3
Pasi
Hi Pasi...yes I meant to mention some bands who did manage to do two major album in a row and Wish you Were Here came to mind. More coming up in part 2. Thank.
Ah yes, the eminent Reality Stab. Such a masterful piece of pop craft. Love that album. And yeah, «poor» Venus and Mars as well. I do adore it, but, Red Rose Speedway as well. Very well thought of this, Living in the Material World. Goegeous… Cheers James, Morten.
Thanks Morten!
Seeing Goo by Sonic Youth in the background, I thought that it would be mentioned, as it's a good album that has been overshadowed by its predecessor, Daydream Nation. Some other good albums that have been overshadowed by their predecessors: Bossanova by Pixies, Tusk by Fleetwood Mac, 52nd Street by Billy Joel, Wha'ppen by The (English) Beat, Desire by Bob Dylan, His Band & Street Choir by Van Morrison, and to a lesser extent (lesser in terms of being overshadowed), Strange Days by The Doors and Darkness on the Edge of Town by Bruce Springsteen.
Good point about Goo, I should have talked about that. I prefer it to DM, for a start because it's way shorter and more compact. I would have featured Strange Days, but I lost my copy back in the day!
Really agree with the charity shop comment. Many years past I saw albums and thought the same, oh not as good as… In hindsight I missed out on some real wonders. Got them on CD but would’ve loved the original vinyl - in those days in very good condition.
We've all done it John!
Hi James, great idea for a video.
i love both Stone Roses albums, John Squire has a collaboration album with Liam Gallagher out this week, the lead off single "mars to liverpool" is pretty good IMO.
i think Venus And Mars is a better album IMO.
also prefer Living In The Material World over ATMP.
love both of those Tom Petty albums.
still prefer the first Wilbury's album but the second one is still pretty good
Thanks Lloyd. I talk to quite a lot of people who prefer Venus and Mars to Band on the Run these days. I have heard the Squire/Gallagher collaboration. I thought it was OK musically but I'm really not a fan of Liam I'm afraid.
Great video James, i was lucky to see Tom Petty twice. I really miss him. 😢. Cheers, Flash
Hi Gordon, it is so great to be seeing you in the comments again recently. Hope you are doing swimmingly!
The sound when you opened the George Harrison Gatefold! 😅 Same sound here when I open my copy. I have a stronger relationship with Living in the material world than All things must pass. ❤
Hi Martin. The copy of LITMW I showed was an original copy I think...I also have the reissue - not sure if that also cracks when you open it!
@@jamesgriffithsmusic I also have a UK original. 😊
When “Venus & Mars” came out in 1975 I was not disappointed by it at all, in fact I think I preferred it over “Band On The Run” actually. I liked everything about it - the sound of it, the songs, the artwork, and the packaging. I was fifteen, and probably was part of the target audience that the album was aimed at.. Now, many, many, years later I still like Venus & Mars” but it doesn’t appeal quite as much to me as it did then, and I prefer “Band On The Run” now. Nice topic for a video Hanes c
(* lol James!)
Thanks Tom! I must say I am very fond of the artwork for Venus and Mars - I think it's a really classy photo and very tactile.
In the case of Wings and Tom Petty i actually prefer Venus and mars over band on the run and Into the great wide open over full moon fever. another example is "a day at the races" by queen, but in this case i prefer a "night at the opera"
Day at the Races is coming up in part 2!
I was worried when this started that you'd just slung the dog out the way over to the sofa! I keep seeing Hergest Ridge almost every time I go out now. I have that Harrison, my hopes of exchanging it for All things must pass are now dashed!
No animal cruelty in our house Stevie. The John B. regrets thread? You've lost me there! (?)
@@jamesgriffithsmusic Good to know🐕👍 apologies, I was reading far too much into 'JB sent me this'/critics hating ABCs second 🤔😊. Changing the subject, I saw a comment about The Who's 'The Who Sell Out' standing up as an album to Saucerful Of Secrets and Sgt Peppers (cough)! But it got me thinking, having just listened to Pete Townshend's Rael (parts 1-9) demos (which in places does sound a bit Floydish) , about preceding albums/bits of albums that gave rise to masterpieces. EG Sell Outs Rael and A Quick One, while hes away giving rise to Tommy (amongst other things).
Townsend was massively influenced by Barrett's Floyd, he goes on about them a lot in his autobiography.
Nice seeing Goo in the background :)
Great album!
Second coming is a genuinely very good album. It suffered because it wasn't stone roses 2
Agreed!
Interesting James. It's got me thinking about when is an album overshadowed by the influence of the previous album, and was always up against it, versus it was just inferior (albeit slightly) to a seminal great album. I think Hergest Ridge is a great example of the former because Tubular Bells, as well as being great, had the additional benefit of introducing the whole Mike Oldfield 'thing' (you only get one chance to make a first impression). Plus it played out in real time, at the time. Whereas I think Obscured by Clouds was just not as good as Piper for a host of reasons. I don't think Piper was a monster chart success, so I think it's more apparent looking back that it was overshadowed. I'll stop there as I'm at risk of over thinking this - cheers for provoking the thoughts...
Good points Dale. I did think about talking about the difference you're describing here, but then I thought maybe that got a bit subjective. There are some more interesting examples coming up in part 2, and I'd say some of those were definitely 'inferior' as well as being overshadowed. Now I'm wondering if there's an example of an album that was overshadowed by its predecessor despite actually being better than it?
I think Venus and Mars would benefit from a remix. It was never in heavy rotation by be me due to its production.
Agree totally. Pretty much all the live versions on Wings Over America are better. The studio album sounds like a pop album trying to be a rock album.
• Fleetwood Mac - Tusk
• Prince & The Revolution- Around The World In A Day
• REM - Monster
• Beastie Boys - Paul’s Boutique
• Rolling Stones - Goat’s Head Soup
• Led Zeppelin - Houses Of The Holy
• The Strokes - Room On Fire
• Bruce Springsteen - Tunnel Of Love
• Teenage Fanclub - Thirteen
• Liz Phair - Whip-Smart
• Primal Scream - Give Out But Don’t Give Up
Good suggestions Phil. I thought about including Monster. Houses of the Holy is an interesting one, as these days I talk to a lot of people who like it more than Led Zep IV, so I wasn't entirely sure if it is overlooked anymore. It's undoubtedly lacking a 'Stairway' moment though, to say nothing of When the Levee Breaks, Black Dog etc. I love 'No Quarter' off Houses, it's my favourite Zep track.
@@jamesgriffithsmusicyeah, I like houses as much, probably more than IV...
WhipSmart definitely was a major let down after Exile. It was a clear downward spiral for Liz phair after Exile.
I've always thought of those two first Pink Floyd albums as a pair. In fact I don't think I've ever experienced them separately at all. I first got them two sides of a C90, then I was given original cassettes of them both from a friend. My only vinyl copies are the A Nice Pair released in 74. I've never thought of that until now. Ah, nice. I wondered if you were going to show Beauty Stab. I heard The Look Of Love on Radio 2 today. Put me in the mood for ABC. I'm trying to think of some of these now, but all that comes to mind is Slip Of The Tongue by Whitesnake. It followed two years after the '1987' album. Similar formula with the only main difference being that John Sykes was out and Steve Via was in. John Sykes has always caried with him a very broad sounding power chord type of style and Steve Via obviously is renowned for his particular seven string guitar solos... but apart from that is all the same guff, but it was nowhere near as popular. Now I come to think of it ZZ Top's Afterburner that came after Eliminator suffered in much the same way. Afterburner basically refines the successful formula of it's predecessor but by doing that it seems to have lost the interest of the fans along the way.
Thanks John. I know what you mean about Piper and Saucerful, they do seem to be a pair thanks largely to having been packaged as one after the event. The 'Nice Pair' comp was put together largely to create some revenue for Syd Barrett, who by 1974 was burning through his money while living at the Hilton Hotel. The Hipgnosis guys went round to his penthouse to try and get him to cooperate on the artwork for the album, but he told them to fuck off and slammed the door in their faces. I've still never heard Slip of the Tongue by the way.
My greyhound does that all the time. The Stone Roses had a second album? Saucerful is great, but I probably think that because of A Nice Pair where they both kind of blend together nicely (though it is of course obvious this is a different album from Piper). I like Learning to Fly better, and I think its the last great TP album.
The Stone Roses second has a few good things on it but overall it's not up to the standard of the first. Thanks Kris.
I never particularly enjoyed Hergest Ridge, or rated it possibly unfairly, because it just wasn't as good as Tubular Bells.
I really like Venus and Mars, Love in Song is fabulous..again, difficult to compete with Band on the Run, Macca was onto a loser whatever he did afterwards.
I just never got the appeal of The Stone Roses..i recall eagerly awaiting the first album.. it's arrival with my brother and then after we had played it we just kinda looked at each other as if to say ' is that it?'.
Comparing Living in the Material World to All Things Must Pass is a little unfair, because ATMP is a triple album..however if you remove the tedious apple jams album and some of the weaker songs, you could end up with an album on a par in my opinion.
I prefer ' Piper' over ' Saucerful' by virtue of the fact that i've played it a lot more and therefore a lot more familiar..that said, i love Richard Wrights' Remember A Day '..incredible song.
Great idea for a video James, entertaining.
Hi Rob. I've got a friend who had the same reaction to The Stone Roses back in the day, but he gave the album a listen last year and it suddenly made sense to him, so maybe give it another go. Not being from Manchester, I don't have a tribal connection to the Roses like a lot of people seem to. I thought it was a worthy, interesting debut overall but maybe they're one of those bands you had to see live to really appreciate 'the magic'. Remi is a great drummer I think, really natural and unique in his approach. I'm with you on Piper versus Saucerful. I remember when I got the 'Nice Pair' record as a kid, I enjoyed both records but I played Piper way more.
Montrose and Van Halen immediately spring to mind. I was just playing one of those mind. Interesting video. I guess all bands peak and the next one is not so good. Cheers James, Chris
True...interesting how many of these records are debuts though. A few more in part 2 also. Thanks Chris.
@@jamesgriffithsmusic theme for a video might be When Bands a peaked on Their Debut. There’s a few of those. Interestingly VH and Montrose fir that bill for me.
But I love the idea that an album which is brilliant is often overlooked because the one before it was so lauded.
My favourite Tom Petty LP is their debut. For me he never bettered the song American Girl
ABC, I suppose I have never paid a great deal of attention to them...mostly known here for those few glossy early 80's pop hits, I am not sure I have ever listened to a full album of theirs. Tweeter & the Monkey Man, I suspect I still know most of the words to that...Bob sounding as if he was having a good bit of fun, a lark if you will with tongue firmly in cheek...still to this day do not own Piper or Saucerful and never heard them...I think you could come up with many more examples of overshadowing, there's a long history of big successes that then cast a pall over whatever comes next...cheers!
Hi Doug...yes you're right, there are plenty more examples and they'll be in part 2! Dylan was definitely enjoying himself on Tweeter. There isn't really anything like that on Vol 3. ABC had a lyrical edge and a political dimension that wasn't immediately obvious underneath all the high-end gloss of the production. It came through more on Beauty Stab with the grungier production.
Born in the USA was epic and Springsteen was spooked, intentionally changed things and went in a different direction. Tunnel of Love saw a partial break up of the band, kind of, before the actual one after 1988. Stage places were changed, clothes were changed... tunnel of love is better as a piece of work maybe, and loved... but everyone else wanted USA 2.
Arguably it's the second time Bruce has done this. There's a massive story behind his follow up to Born to Run and there's reasons it's a departure from expectations but Darkness is not Born to Run.
Those are two I thought of.
Also as a manc I have to say you're correct about the Roses. As a follow up it's nothing close but as an album by itself it's alright. The issue as you say was, look at their debut. Yikes.
True Simon, a hard act to follow. I don't know too much about Springsteen, but I'll take your word for it on those records.
Before I watched this, James, I thought, is he going to talk about Beauty Stab? And after you did I have to opine that for me the entire first side is one of the best sides of any album. Kudos for seeing the good in Venus and Mars and Hergest Ridge. Next up, maybe you can do records where one side is so much better than the other. But leave Abbey Road alone.
Hi Paul. I have done a video on just that theme - a collaboration with Richard McCook last year. Let me know if you can't find it, and I'll send the link.
Cool. I'll find it. Actually I've probably watched it such are my fading powers of memory.@@jamesgriffithsmusic
For me:
- Jimi Hendrix: Axis: Bold as Love
It's never talked about as much as Are You Experienced or Electric Ladyland, but it's a great album in its own right.
- King Crimson: In the Wake of Poseidon
Usually thought of as a pale copy of their debut In the Court of the Crimson King (although I find it hard to imagine "Cat Food" and "The Devil's Triangle" being on their debut), it's still a great album.
- Jefferson Airplane: After Bathing at Baxter's
Surrealistic Pillow made the Airplane into a household name of 1960s psychedelic rock with "White Rabbit" and "Somebody to Love" being big hits. After Bathing at Baxter's is the follow-up and far less accessible and much more experimental, with no major hits like its predecessor has, but I still really enjoy this album.
- Led Zeppelin: Presence
It's the followup to Physical Graffiti, but it's probably the least talked about of the Zeppelin albums.
- Jethro Tull: A Passion Play
Thick as a Brick is highly regarded by fans. Many fans do also highly regard A Passion Play, but it's less accessible and more serious in tone (except "The Story of the Hare Who Lost His Spectacles"), so not everyone was on board, and of course it was slammed by rock critics.
- INXS: X
Never going to match the huge success of Kick, and it wasn't as good either. "Suicide Blonde" and "Disappear" did get airplay.
- Nirvana: In Utero
So much is said about Nevemind that anything that they might follow it up with will always be foreshadowed, and In Utero is that example. I can't claim I'm a Nirvana expert as I was never a fan of them but it's pretty safe to say this opinion is shared by everyone.
- Deep Purple: Who Do We Think We Are
It follows the massively popular Machine Head and usually thought of as the weakest of the Mark II lineup albums. Personally, I don't find it that bad.
- AC/DC: For Those Who Are About to Rock, We Salute You
Back in Black needs no explaining, but the 1981 follow-up never held a candle to its predecessor. It's not as highly regarded or talked about as much.
Interesting suggestion. Still looking for a vinyl copy of Axis!
I thought Second Coming was great when it came out! I hadn’t even heard the first Stone Roses album yet.
Interesting!
Who do we think we are!
With The Beach Boys, Smiley Smile was not an ideal follow-up to Pet Sounds. But Psychedelia was exploding, and another Pet Sounds album would by then have seemed mighty out-fashioned against the likes of Jimi Hendrix, Cream, The Doors, Jefferson Airplane ETC, so they were in a grey area. I don't think The Doors second album was as good as their first. How could Paul Simon follow Graceland, with an album that was similar but not as good, and not nearly such a huge seller.
Cheers Paul. One of the albums you mentioned is coming up in part 2.
ABC could never rematch their first album The Lexicon Of Love and I did not like the other releases they did. Then, they lost succes fading into oblivion. Recently I relistened to Beauty Stab, How To Be A Zillionaire and Alphabet City. I finally found that these are very good albums 40 years later.
Thanks Marc. I haven't heard Alphabet City yet. I found a copy in the wild a while back but it was a bit pricey.
This is why Spotify and mp3millions exist. Happily I kept my vinyls collection.@@jamesgriffithsmusic
I enjoy yr views...I do draw the line at ABC, though..not a fan. Subbed. Hi from Sydney.
Aw, ABC were fab! Thanks for the sub.
Let's get it on was Marvin's masterpiece, but What's going on is revered and people don't listen to his 1973 album so much!
Good suggestion!
without Tubular Bells Hergest Ridge would have been seen as a total classic !
the Biz is a very fickle game tho.......
Interesting point. Mind you, would HR even have been released had it not been for TB?
Yes I loved Venus and Mars! I got tired of Band On The Run.........it was IMO over played. I'd rather be alone then in a crowd sometimes, if you know what I mean! Same with George's Living in The Material World.
I'm sad to say that I've probably got tired of Band on the Run over the years also, but not Venus and Mars.
Living in the Material World would not have gotten George Harrison a record deal, if he hadn't been a Beatle. It was the antithesis of All Things Must Pass, and doesn't hold a candle to any of his songs from the Beatles era. It is better than Dark Horse, Extra Texture, Thirty-Three and One-Third, George Harrison, Somewhere in England, and Gone Troppo, but that is faint praise, indeed. Similarly, Saucer Full of Secrets is "better" than More, Ummagumma (studio sides), and Obscured by Clouds, and those songs contributed to the Zabriskie Point soundtrack, with only the longer half of Atom Heart Mother interrupting the snooze fest those LPs/songs engendered. They were "inventing" their oeuvre, so Floyd gets a pass.
I didn't hear anything on the ABC LP that made me want to hear more, so the second album is a wash. Into the Great Wide Open is a good album, not quite up to the standards of the band's first three, but it's better than the two LPs that preceded Full Moon Fever. Neither Wilburys album is a great record. There are great songs on both, but about as many clunkers. It's hard to believe as talented a crew could come up with dry-as-zwieback toast songs, but creativity is not an on-demand skill. Dylan was floundering, at the time, and Jeff Lynne was iwearing a number of hats, George was coming off Cloud Nine, his finest album since ATMP, Roy Orbison had released the first great album, Mystery Girl, of his career. Petty was still at cruising altitude, having the time of his life. The band phoned the second album in.
There are better choices, Stage Fright, For Everyman, Axis: Bold as Love, Wow, Again, To Our Children's Children's Children, The Who by Numbers, Pretenders II, Village Green Preservation Society, The Long Run, Speaking in Tongues, et al.
i actually prefer hergest ridge - tubular - overplayed
Fair comment John.
Venus and Mars is a Far Superior Album to Band on the Run.
The childish keyboard played on the Title Track of Band on the Run makes it unlistenable
I never understood why BOTR was so popular
Jet=a nothing song
Helen Wheels just more drivel
BTW Jeff Lynne should stay away from production
He loves compression which sounds awful on any decent Stereo System
I would flip it around and say red Rose Speedway is Paul McCartney's masterpiece. Band on the run although very good is less so
I like Red Rose overall but not too keen on parts of the medley.
@@jamesgriffithsmusic I hear ya. I love it all, I used to hate My Love but even love that now
Be Here Now by Oasis was a very dissapointed album, compared tol øwhat The Morning Glory
Very true!