This is 100% why I love this channel.... always legit feedback not an obvious you should buy this and you need that sales pitch.. like a ton of channels seem to constantly do.. appreciate you man!
I bought my link riser from 1tenth and at first was feeling the same way about not noticing a difference right off the rip. After a few runs and different terrains it start to show an improvement on super steep technical climbs. My buddy has the same exact upgrades on his ascent as mine other than the link riser and driver mod and the difference is noticable when we run the same line
Also i am running the stock frame rails. Not sure if it will make a difference with the DSM carbon chassis that you are running. Just an after thought.
@@dizturbednomad6253Good point - I doubt it makes much of a difference here. I wonder if the Ascent is just too good out of the box - and any change is just hardly noticable...
Thanks for testing my link riser. Ive found in my testing its not wow this is incredible but in some cases and some situations it seamed to help. I have custom length links also so i may see slightly different results.
Did exactly what it was supposed to. It kept your front down better on several of those climbs. But there is a ton more to proper link geometry than just using a riser.
To my knowledge the biggest thing to watch is the gap between the top of your wheel well and the tire. The more open that remains before and after means the chassis is staying down and forward instead of wanting to squat in the back and unload the front. But if your chassis is already front biased with front brass it may not be too noticeable as far as picking up a wheel as your fronts already weighted down. I have recently installed front brass and metal wheels and love how it has tamed that issue.I have a dsm link riser on the way as well interested to test it out as it looks a bit different than the others.
I bought one for my TRX4M and couldn’t tell a difference either. I tested on a grip tape board, and outside on the rocks and couldn’t tell a difference. Almost all other mods I’ve been able to tell an immediate improvement.
@@RoadsideRC really don't think so. Best thing I've found is desert lizard's. Problem solved it just takes a little of the scale away. I needed the lizard's for Capra and going back to stock shocks was uuggg bad lol
IMO, the on;y thing that really works for doing outrageous climbs is a servo actuated front limit strap. The problem is you need a 3rd channel with travel limits and servo speed control and most RTRs come with basic radios. I use a computer radi so it's easy to install and set up. You can climb almost vertically. I also don't know if it's legal for competition. Doesnt say anything in the rules but I'm sure someone might cry and consider it cheating, lol.
I watched a vid from exocaged he tested link risers and came to the same conclusion , didn't seem to do much , i think it depends on the rig itself and how its set up . Thanks for the vid
you can see the extra anti squat the higher link mount gives working when the car is on the way up the stones, first it look normal but as soon as more power is applied the separation between rear axle and body gets notisable and the pushing of the rear axle down gives better grip to climb the stones.
Wow the link riser for me personally was a huge improvement on my Ascent and well worth the like $10 lol! I dont think you get say a huge performance enhancement like you do with proper weight distribution but I could 100% see the performance differences in ny truck immediately first go with it. Once I moved the link geometry around it improved it furthermore.
what is does is add anti-squat to the rear!!! (not really an expert in crawling) but IMO the pros and cons would even out. yes, it would keep more weight forward but your rear tire is trying to go under the truck, which lifts your rear suspension more. This put more pressure on the rear tire for the rear suspension is compression less (think like running a harder spring rear but only on power)... too much you get wheel hop and wheeling!!! just look at 1:53 vs 4:42
@@RoadsideRC it's going to be hard to see, for the truck already has anti-squat. also keep in mind it's affected by wheel speed. a test you could try (to see it more) go up to a wall and have only the front bumper touching the wall and set the trim on the controller and watch the rear tire. the higher links should lift the rear of the truck more at equal speed.
Steeper inclines is what I showed in this video. I didn't test the sidehill, as I had not heard anyone say anything about it. What do you think it would do for sidehill? Better or worse?
I'll be curious what you think! Rob at DSM really knows what he is talking about - so I believe him when he says adding this part is better. I just didn't see it in my testing.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot. Partially because on my sporty when rear links got moved the chassis side has multiple link mounts. I think that it makes sense when you picture the force a rotating axle puts in the chassis. So the riser amplifies the force….somewhat. I think raising them chassis side helps even more placing force forward higher on chassis. 😬😬😬maybe
It is def at the point of fine tuning when you get to this though. Weight has been added and lost, and moved….centers of gravity lowered shocks tuned limited and angled, the. Smooth electronics then when your like what else could I possibly do to make this better mess w link geometry. But it’s last lololol
From what I understand anti squat really only comes into play under acceleration. Also overdrive/underdrive on a crawler defeats whatever benefit you’d get from a link riser. Boomslang Suspension has an in depth video on this…
I’ve tested one several times on a variety of climbs and could never see an improvement it now sits in a box somewhere. Mine was is a aluminum aftermarket one.
@@RoadsideRC element axle has flippable diff gear Then I also had to overdrive the rear so it brought it up to 25% UD without adding the trans gears so I put the 10% on the trans to get comp OD 👌
The rear risers are an interesting thing. I have not tried them on any of my 10th scale rigs. I have tried them on my scx24s. From my experience they work on a few of my rigs but not all. Specficlly my Betty and Deadbolt. The reason I think the reason is due to the rear link length. The longer links put more leverage on the front to keep it planted. When i tried it on my other rigs no benifit was seen. I have one climb on my crawler course that the link riser rigs have no problem with. The non riser rigs either stuggle or do not make it.
I forget the guys name but he explains in depth why they dont do anything.. His channel is in depth and he builds complex crawlers.. He has grey hair and jerseys on his shop wall... Anyway. Hope that helps
I don't see any difference. For me the best basic “trick” to do is the weight in the wheels. I have an rc ecto element and it has something that really works, the "GKS". Quote from the site: " Gatekeeper Suspension (GKS™) wheel suspension! This suspension package uses longitudinal arms on which the shock absorbers are mounted further forward, which gives more leeway for shock adjustment and allows for better weight distribution "In combination with a stabilizer bar, the use of these longitudinal arms allows the suspension to operate more evenly when going over rocks, ensuring a stable ride." And I would add that the original adjustable overdrive is of course an undeniable plus. I have had several Crawlers and I must say that the ECTO is perhaps the best I have had to date.
Yes! Weight down-low is 100% a best-practice. No doubt. I typically don't weight my wheels, as I don't like rotating mass. BUT - weight on the front axle is GREAT! I also have the ECTO and agree there as well. It is one of the best RTR crawlers you can get!
@RoadsideRC The rear tire clearance seemed better. Didn't compress as much. I thought it was equal but slight advantage to the riser. Like it 'grabbed' traction quicker.
@keldonator, that is incorrect. A link riser is to increase anti-squat, not raise the clearance. By adding a link riser to the rear axle (and/or lowering upper link mount at the skid), you increase anti-squat. Raising the upper link mounting position at the skid decreases anti-squat.
@@RoadsideRC That's not what 99% of people want it for. Im just saying that it allows you to do this without messing up the angle of the axle through it's stroke.
@@bugman72 It actually isn't incorrect lol, it does allow you to move the upper links up without making your axle driveshaft angle go up or down through its motion (keeps axle flat). Doesn't mean that is why people buy this piece for rc cars however.
That DSM Offroad carbon chassis already helps to correct the geometry that the link riser is supposed to help with…. So your test here is a little flawed. You wanna test it on the stock chassis for realistic comparison and results. You have one too many variables in your test. But I always love your content regardless!!
Interesting thought. I disagree thinking the test is flawed - but that is just semantics. Like I said at the end - might have a bigger impact for some folks. Perhaps folks with the stock chassis would see a larger benefit!
You’re right, it’s not flawed in your testing method, that was really spot on actually! I guess it’s just about the variables being tested where your base platform is different than most people and the riser tends to correct a flaw of the stock chassis. The carbon chassis already addresses that shortcoming through geometry change at the skid area instead of at the axle mounting point. Either way, awesome content and testing procedure, thank you for putting this stuff out!
Hard to say. From the video I couldn’t tell the difference. Maybe keep playing around with it and see if you notice any differences elsewhere. Thanks for the video. I had some guys at work print me out a riser a while back. Haven’t installed it yet.
A link riser only looks with wheel speed. Why anyone would think this would improve performance on a crawler shouldn't be touching a suspension system. The physics of it requires a negative link height ( front link mounting point to rear mounting point height. In a four link just rasing one really doesn't achieve what's needed.
when your 61"yr"s young , and been RC"in for most of them..One learns to just keep it simple stupid!!! I think my Element Enduro does damb well.. no portalslals no computers no airbags.. I"m gonna eat crow now.. My Hobbywing 1080 rocks my world !!!!!
I will be honest. I didn't see any improvement. The only thing I see logically doing is changing the pinion angle during compression of the suspension.
This is 100% why I love this channel.... always legit feedback not an obvious you should buy this and you need that sales pitch.. like a ton of channels seem to constantly do.. appreciate you man!
Thank you for those kind words!
Troy is our "everyman" rc car scientist !! Logical and methodical. An invaluable internet resource. THANKS again Troy.
Thank you for the kind words!
I bought my link riser from 1tenth and at first was feeling the same way about not noticing a difference right off the rip. After a few runs and different terrains it start to show an improvement on super steep technical climbs. My buddy has the same exact upgrades on his ascent as mine other than the link riser and driver mod and the difference is noticable when we run the same line
Thanks for that feedback!
Also i am running the stock frame rails. Not sure if it will make a difference with the DSM carbon chassis that you are running. Just an after thought.
@@dizturbednomad6253Good point - I doubt it makes much of a difference here.
I wonder if the Ascent is just too good out of the box - and any change is just hardly noticable...
@@RoadsideRC i couldnt be happier with my ascent and absolutely love running the hardlines and walking some that others cant.
Thanks for testing my link riser. Ive found in my testing its not wow this is incredible but in some cases and some situations it seamed to help. I have custom length links also so i may see slightly different results.
Interesting! Thank you!
Did exactly what it was supposed to. It kept your front down better on several of those climbs. But there is a ton more to proper link geometry than just using a riser.
It was really hard to tell any difference in performance - but maybe you are seeing something I didn't.
Great video and thank you for your honesty. I was curious of the risers and didn't see its true purpose.
I am a little stumped on this one. Some folks really say they work quite well. I just personally didn't see it.
To my knowledge the biggest thing to watch is the gap between the top of your wheel well and the tire. The more open that remains before and after means the chassis is staying down and forward instead of wanting to squat in the back and unload the front. But if your chassis is already front biased with front brass it may not be too noticeable as far as picking up a wheel as your fronts already weighted down. I have recently installed front brass and metal wheels and love how it has tamed that issue.I have a dsm link riser on the way as well interested to test it out as it looks a bit different than the others.
Interesting! I will be curious to hear your results.
I bought one for my TRX4M and couldn’t tell a difference either. I tested on a grip tape board, and outside on the rocks and couldn’t tell a difference. Almost all other mods I’ve been able to tell an immediate improvement.
Interesting! Thanks for sharing!
Interesting! Thanks for sharing!
Guess it could have its advantages in different situations, from your footage I'm with you,didn't see much change!!!
Yes! For some folks, in certain situations, it might make a bigger difference.
Very good to know. Was thinking of trying this for axial bronco. Saved me time and money 💯🤜
For your situation, and with your vehicle - maybe it will make a difference....it really is hard to say.
@@RoadsideRC really don't think so. Best thing I've found is desert lizard's. Problem solved it just takes a little of the scale away. I needed the lizard's for Capra and going back to stock shocks was uuggg bad lol
@@CrawlersCampRcGlad they work well for you!
Appreciate you testing it out! I'm always curious just how much difference you can get with stuff like this.
I was curious as well! :) In theory, it has merit. I'm assuming it is just a small change that is hard for me to detect.
I do have risers on some rigs it’s more noticeable on heavier ones for sure. I feel like the lighter the truck the left effective they are .
That might make sense.
IMO, the on;y thing that really works for doing outrageous climbs is a servo actuated front limit strap. The problem is you need a 3rd channel with travel limits and servo speed control and most RTRs come with basic radios. I use a computer radi so it's easy to install and set up. You can climb almost vertically. I also don't know if it's legal for competition. Doesnt say anything in the rules but I'm sure someone might cry and consider it cheating, lol.
I have seen some folks do that! Like you said, I am not jumping into the complication of making it happen - but do see the benefits.
I watched a vid from exocaged he tested link risers and came to the same conclusion , didn't seem to do much , i think it depends on the rig itself and how its set up . Thanks for the vid
Makes sense to me!!
Great video man! I've noticed the link riser talk too and was wondering.
Yep - it certainly got me wondering.
you can see the extra anti squat the higher link mount gives working when the car is on the way up the stones, first it look normal but as soon as more power is applied the separation between rear axle and body gets notisable and the pushing of the rear axle down gives better grip to climb the stones.
I'll give it another watch and see if I can see it.
I like you honest content! Greetingss from Austria!
Thank you!
Wow the link riser for me personally was a huge improvement on my Ascent and well worth the like $10 lol! I dont think you get say a huge performance enhancement like you do with proper weight distribution but I could 100% see the performance differences in ny truck immediately first go with it. Once I moved the link geometry around it improved it furthermore.
Interesting! Thanks for sharing.
what is does is add anti-squat to the rear!!! (not really an expert in crawling) but IMO the pros and cons would even out. yes, it would keep more weight forward but your rear tire is trying to go under the truck, which lifts your rear suspension more. This put more pressure on the rear tire for the rear suspension is compression less (think like running a harder spring rear but only on power)... too much you get wheel hop and wheeling!!! just look at 1:53 vs 4:42
It is really hard for me to see it. I agree - I looked at all of the clips, back-to-back, and really struggled to see much of a difference.
@@RoadsideRC it's going to be hard to see, for the truck already has anti-squat. also keep in mind it's affected by wheel speed. a test you could try (to see it more) go up to a wall and have only the front bumper touching the wall and set the trim on the controller and watch the rear tire. the higher links should lift the rear of the truck more at equal speed.
@@gatorage850 That is an interesting idea! Thanks!
What type of difference did it make on sidehill and steeper inclines ? I would like to see that
Steeper inclines is what I showed in this video.
I didn't test the sidehill, as I had not heard anyone say anything about it.
What do you think it would do for sidehill? Better or worse?
I bought the DSM one mouth back. Still need to try it out. 😂 front wait might help with it.
I'll be curious what you think!
Rob at DSM really knows what he is talking about - so I believe him when he says adding this part is better. I just didn't see it in my testing.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot.
Partially because on my sporty when rear links got moved the chassis side has multiple link mounts.
I think that it makes sense when you picture the force a rotating axle puts in the chassis.
So the riser amplifies the force….somewhat.
I think raising them chassis side helps even more placing force forward higher on chassis.
😬😬😬maybe
Interesting!
From what I can tell online, it sounds like raising it on the chassis side would be a bad thing - but I am no expert.
I think raising on both so if you raise on axle raise on chassis….
Keeping them parallel
It is def at the point of fine tuning when you get to this though.
Weight has been added and lost, and moved….centers of gravity lowered shocks tuned limited and angled, the. Smooth electronics then when your like what else could I possibly do to make this better mess w link geometry.
But it’s last lololol
From what I understand anti squat really only comes into play under acceleration. Also overdrive/underdrive on a crawler defeats whatever benefit you’d get from a link riser. Boomslang Suspension has an in depth video on this…
Yes! I have watched that same video!
Correct comment. ✌️
What model is that automatic screw driver? Seems small and handy
I really liked that one! But unfortunately, they discontinued it.
I now use this one and it does great: amzn.to/4ffoP5s
I’ve tested one several times on a variety of climbs and could never see an improvement it now sits in a box somewhere. Mine was is a aluminum aftermarket one.
Interesting!
This just reminded me I need to take my ascent out to see how it does with the straight axle front and portal rear 🤔
Fun!
How did you reverse the front axle rotation?
@@RoadsideRC element axle has flippable diff gear
Then I also had to overdrive the rear so it brought it up to 25% UD without adding the trans gears so I put the 10% on the trans to get comp OD 👌
That's wild that front must be super low now how did that work out for you
The rear risers are an interesting thing. I have not tried them on any of my 10th scale rigs. I have tried them on my scx24s. From my experience they work on a few of my rigs but not all. Specficlly my Betty and Deadbolt. The reason I think the reason is due to the rear link length. The longer links put more leverage on the front to keep it planted. When i tried it on my other rigs no benifit was seen. I have one climb on my crawler course that the link riser rigs have no problem with. The non riser rigs either stuggle or do not make it.
Interesting! Thank you!
I think you need a steeper climb near rollover.
There were two climbs where one front wheel was in the air - how much more vertical does it need?
Nice 👍
Thanks ✌
I forget the guys name but he explains in depth why they dont do anything..
His channel is in depth and he builds complex crawlers..
He has grey hair and jerseys on his shop wall...
Anyway. Hope that helps
Yes! I saw that video as well!
I was number 75 to like this video 💯🎉🎉🎉
I don't see any difference.
For me the best basic “trick” to do is the weight in the wheels.
I have an rc ecto element and it has something that really works, the "GKS".
Quote from the site:
" Gatekeeper Suspension (GKS™) wheel suspension! This suspension package uses longitudinal arms on which the shock absorbers are mounted further forward, which gives more leeway for shock adjustment and allows for better weight distribution "In combination with a stabilizer bar, the use of these longitudinal arms allows the suspension to operate more evenly when going over rocks, ensuring a stable ride."
And I would add that the original adjustable overdrive is of course an undeniable plus.
I have had several Crawlers and I must say that the ECTO is perhaps the best I have had to date.
Yes! Weight down-low is 100% a best-practice. No doubt.
I typically don't weight my wheels, as I don't like rotating mass. BUT - weight on the front axle is GREAT!
I also have the ECTO and agree there as well. It is one of the best RTR crawlers you can get!
I think it looked a little better.
What part looked better to you?
@RoadsideRC The rear tire clearance seemed better. Didn't compress as much. I thought it was equal but slight advantage to the riser. Like it 'grabbed' traction quicker.
Link riser let's you raise the upper rear links on both axle and skid side in case you need clearance for your driveshaft or something
Hmm. That is not what 99% of folks say the purpose is.
@keldonator, that is incorrect. A link riser is to increase anti-squat, not raise the clearance. By adding a link riser to the rear axle (and/or lowering upper link mount at the skid), you increase anti-squat. Raising the upper link mounting position at the skid decreases anti-squat.
Thanks Troy.
@@RoadsideRC That's not what 99% of people want it for. Im just saying that it allows you to do this without messing up the angle of the axle through it's stroke.
@@bugman72 It actually isn't incorrect lol, it does allow you to move the upper links up without making your axle driveshaft angle go up or down through its motion (keeps axle flat). Doesn't mean that is why people buy this piece for rc cars however.
The truck seems to be fine with out that I saw no difference really my friend but each to his own
That was my takeaway as well.
That DSM Offroad carbon chassis already helps to correct the geometry that the link riser is supposed to help with…. So your test here is a little flawed.
You wanna test it on the stock chassis for realistic comparison and results.
You have one too many variables in your test.
But I always love your content regardless!!
Interesting thought.
I disagree thinking the test is flawed - but that is just semantics.
Like I said at the end - might have a bigger impact for some folks. Perhaps folks with the stock chassis would see a larger benefit!
You’re right, it’s not flawed in your testing method, that was really spot on actually!
I guess it’s just about the variables being tested where your base platform is different than most people and the riser tends to correct a flaw of the stock chassis.
The carbon chassis already addresses that shortcoming through geometry change at the skid area instead of at the axle mounting point.
Either way, awesome content and testing procedure, thank you for putting this stuff out!
Hard to say. From the video I couldn’t tell the difference. Maybe keep playing around with it and see if you notice any differences elsewhere. Thanks for the video. I had some guys at work print me out a riser a while back. Haven’t installed it yet.
Thanks! It is still installed. I figure it isn't any worse..
The only thing I could see it might give you is anti squad Characteristics
That is what it is supposed to do, but I didn't really see any gains from it.
I honestly didnt see my ascent gain any performance from this aswell.
Thanks for sharing!
I only noticed a difference when going up steep rocks it was easier, but other than that I really didn't see a difference.
Interesting! Thanks for sharing.
Tried it on mine and didn't really see a difference.
an interesting experiment couldnt notice much difference my self
*👍like☑full view✅💯Au😎🦘*
A link riser only looks with wheel speed. Why anyone would think this would improve performance on a crawler shouldn't be touching a suspension system. The physics of it requires a negative link height ( front link mounting point to rear mounting point height. In a four link just rasing one really doesn't achieve what's needed.
Thanks for the feedback!
when your 61"yr"s young , and been RC"in for most of them..One learns to just keep it simple stupid!!! I think my Element Enduro does damb well.. no portalslals no computers no airbags.. I"m gonna eat crow now.. My Hobbywing 1080 rocks my world !!!!!
Frequently, you are right!
I will be honest.
I didn't see any improvement.
The only thing I see logically doing is changing the pinion angle during compression of the suspension.
That makes sense.
Also - maybe it makes more of an impact in other situations.