For the record, I want to say that I HATED making this list. I am glad, though, that people are enjoying watching the list. Why someone HATES a game can very often be the reason why someone else LOVES it. That makes for controversy, which is why Tom wanted to do it, I suppose...and I can't say that I've shied away from controversy in the past...;) I do sincerely thank everyone for watching, though. It means a lot that you make us part of your day!
For the record, I've noticed that Zee is much better at selling me on his point of view than Sam who is rather blunt and straightforward. That said, when I've had time to evaluate the games discussed I more often than not agree with Sam. The takeaway being that you shouldn't trust Zee just because of his smooth talk and you shouldn't discount Sam's opinion. ...and of course just mostly ignore Tom :)
I was a bit surprised to see a "negative" list, and I can imagine it was difficult for everyone.. but especially you, Sam. Thanks for giving it a good shot.
Yeah this was a really good one. And it shows i think a little more about you as a gamer than your top 100 did. Very intriguing, and yeah kudos on calling out newer games that should be called out on. BTW yeah... Tom did make the same argument as you in his quelf bit.
When I was around 12 I asked for and got Scruples as a Christmas present. My two younger sisters and I decided to try this game out. Most of the questions were harmless ethical situations such as, "If you got extra change at the store, would you return it to the clerk?" But several of the questions were quite risqué, such as "Your lover moans and groans during lovemaking, and you find it a turn off. Do you tell him or her?" Needless to say, it was rather uncomfortable talking about such things with siblings. A few days after we played our mom asked to play Scruples with us. My sister and I went into our best lawyer/salesman mode. We fervently made the case that another board game we had received that year, 20 Questions, was more fun, and that our mom should play that instead. In fact, the 20 Questions game was quite boring...but a lot better than having to interrogate our mom about her love life and then vote on whether or not she was lying to us! Our attempts at persuasion must have worked, because we never had to endure the horror of playing Scruples with our mom.
I know generally the Dice Tower prefers to be positive, but this really is pretty funny. While I hope DT doesn't turn into a hate fest, glad you broke form here for a minute. :)
I cant believe Skip-bo didn't make the list. I dated this girl once who's family played Skip-Bo at EVERY family gathering. Loved her, loved her family HATED that game. It got to the point last year while visting them for Thanksgiving, I went out and bought copies of Fluxx, Play Nine, and a Cribbage board(and deck) in the hope they would like one of them and then I would give them it so next time we could play that instead of Skip-bo. It worked too. The kids loved Fluxx(Pirate), the grown-ups started a Cribbage tournament. WIN!!!
I would rather play 1000 rounds of skip-bo vs phase 10 because 1000 rounds of skip-bo takes about as long as one game of phase 10. That game is my kryptonite, uggggh.
36:43 "I bought this game for $2. I played the game. As soon as I played it, I immediately put the game in the trash, and I felt ripped off. I was out my $2." LOL
Werewolf translates pretty well to videogame in the form of Town of Salem. Because the mechanics are handled by the computer it runs a lot smoother, secret keeping is a lot easier, and there if you die on the first turn (Which happens a lot) you can just jump right back into another game.
Tom's rockin' fist-pump reaction (29:15) is priceless! I replayed a bunch of times and it just gets more an more hilarious, particularly when you realize its actually Zee;s loud laughing that looks like its coming from Tom!
Re: Pictionary - there are other paths to winning other than drawing well. I'd argue that understanding of how to adequately symbolize your subject is much more helpful than simply being able to draw well. Well-used stick figures are much more useful in Pictionary than well-drawn art, simply because it is faster, if nothing else.
+Roger Cline Just saying there are a lot of people who cant manage a stick figure very well. I work with a lot of them and seriously its a little sad to watch.
+Roger Cline Just saying there are a lot of people who cant manage a stick figure very well. I work with a lot of them and seriously its a little sad to watch.
+Michael Chandler true. I'm just saying it's a different skill than fine art. Being fast and well-conceived is much more important than being a great artist.
Oh how these guys crack me up. Especially as they reach their top 3s and try to come up with new ways to describe how much they loathe that game. Very entertaining!
I love seeing you guys get passionate aboot games, even if it's towards the ones you hate. Makes for great viewing!!! Only one I want to comment on is the game Phase 10, which we a have house ruled so that no matter who finishes a stage, you just score that stage, and everyone movies onto the next one. Not only does it get rid of the being on different stages, but also speeds up the game.
Tom on Pictionary: "You are rewarded for drawing well." If that's what you think then that's why you didn't like the game. Pictionary is not about drawing well, it's about communicating quickly and efficiently via paper and pencil. Simple drawings work best, such a stick figures, and figuring out the communication was what made it fun. I got hours and hours of entertainment from Pictionary back in the 90's. Great game!
So do all games. Basically, most people who are more logically minded are going to be better at strategic or tactical games. People who are able to communicate ideas quickly will be better at Pictionary, Dixit, Cranium, etc. Dexterity games require dexterity. It's a poor complaint because someone will always be better than someone else at an aspect of the game.
11:20 - Sam, I feel your pain. The first gaming party I hosted, I started with Werewolf (using home-made, P-n-P cards) with me as the moderator. I felt so bad as I watched the first couple of people eliminated - in a 10-player game - sit around while others are still kinda, sorta interested. The worst part was that we really only had one "special" role... and he was the first one eliminated! Didn't get to use their special power at all. We ended up playing Category 5/Slide 5/6 Nimmt for the rest of the day, since there is no elimination and it is easy to learn.
I was introduced to Mafia as a pick up game during a New Years Eve party. It was NOT advertised as a gaming party. Two dozen people. Cool, get to meet new people. Well HELLO, cute girl! Oh really you're into that me too? You just moved to the area? Sure I know some places... "Okay everyone! Gather around for Mafia!" Get eliminated FIRST. Not allowed to talk. Wandered off into the kitchen. Game lasted until the midnight count! Everyone goes home. Screw you, Mafia!
I disagree with pictionary, I think the yelling and small frustration of the game is fun, and it's the ability to transmit an idea clearly, not only drawing
Sam Healy: In Liar's dice you HAVE to lie to win, so Sam hates it. Sam Healy: I like resistance. Im pretty sure you can play liar's dice without 'lying', and actually still win. It has a hell of a lot to do with unknown information. But resistance ... if you are on the evil side, and if you don't lie, well .. I would just say I'm really curious how Sam plays resistance, or anything along those lines. :-/ It's not that I always disagree with Sam's choices, but his reasoning is often very biased.
There goes my plans to pledge at the "Game with Zee" level in next year's Kickstarter. Who would have thought he hated 18XX games? I thought he loved sitting around a table playing one game for 10 hours.
Werewolf has some amazingly great game concepts, but player elimination (especially when it can happen quick in a possibly long game) is one of the worst game mechanics.
I love that the lists were so different and even opposed in view. Sooo subjective. The game "Sorry" is really like gaming training wheels. Sure you hate training wheels now, but when you were like 3, you loved it!
Tom, I haven't played all the games on your list, but I can confirm the Phase 10 is the worst game I've ever played. I played it with my family back when I was in high school. I got so bored, that I slammed my forhead on the table, and one of my cards stuck to my forhead. It was the highlight of the night. Worse game ever.
liar's dice is not lying and it is not pure bluffing. You don't know if you are bluffing or not. You could be right by saying 7 sixes, you just don't know. Nevertheless an excellent game. You don't know if you lie or tell the truth.
Not always. For example, If two players have 5 die each and you say "6 threes" but you have no threes that is both a lie and a bluff that you are aware of.
Con Cahill No, it's a lie. If you KNOW the number of dice is impossible (like in my example), it's a lie not a guess. Clearly you don't know what guessing and/or lying means.
Agree completely with Tom's #1 choice!!! Phase 10 is evil and I will completely refuse to play it. It is stinking hard enough to get your phases and then people can skip you or play theirs first and leave you behind. I have been angry over this game to the point where I felt personally attacked by it because people can team up on you with skips and purposefully make you lose. Tom is right, this is the one game I totally won't play!
One of my best memories is actually playing Phase 10 for about 8 hours straight with my best friend while on vacation. She'd mentioned how she always beat her family, but first time playing I ended up winning all but one of our games. My family gets annoyed while playing with me as well though because I get stupidly lucky a lot of the time. What helped make it fun for everyone though is making a base rule like everyone gets 3 (or w/e) turns before you can play your Phase. Gives everyone a chance if someone's getting out immediately constantly. Anyways this was an interesting video, just watched 3 hours of you guys tonight. Cheers. :)
I think you're wrong about Pictionary - you don't need to be a good artist at pictionary any more than you need to be a good actor to play Charades. It's more about being able to quickly and simply present an idea without words. I'm a rubbish artist, but tend to be pretty good at Pictionary.
I think I'd agree with this. In fact, my sister hates the game because she's a good draw-er, but she doesn't like being rushed to draw. Of course, she also hates it because she just hates games....
Agree completely. I draw with stick figures but I can get my team to guess the word most of the time in Pictionary. It's about using the tools at your disposal, not making a masterpiece. Shortcuts! Clues! Rebus pictures! Think outside the box to get your point across
It's misleading to say you need to be a "good artist" because they makes it sound like you need to be an ACCURATE artist. It's probably more accurate to say you need to be something like a good iconographer, someone who can make a very simple image with just a minimal number of lines that captures the essence of what it is you're trying to represent. Like being able to get across the concept of a mouse by just drawing a curved M for the ears, a couple whiskers, a semi circle body and a curly tail. Otherwise what Tom is saying is absolutely true. The game is absolutely no fun for people who aren't good at drawing that kind of imagery and other games like Telestrations are fun for everyone regardless of their ability.
I agree with your assessment that Pictionary isn't about drawing well but more about drawing enough to communicate what your trying to say. Leonardo, Donatello or the rest of the Ninja Turtles would do poorly if they were to try to take their time drawing a nice picture rather than communicating things. I can see those that don't do well with creative thinking in general having problems with this game. I wonder how they might feel about Concept.
I'm actually a really good artist who sucks at pictionary, because my default mode is "make a picture look good" rather than "get the idea out there", so the argument about Pictionary only being good for good artists holds no water either way you look at it.
I don't like Liar's Dice at all either - for the same reason Sam gave. I am a really lousy liar (when I choose to!) and I am really a lousy liar when I am forced to. I don't like lying anyway...that may also be a problem. I loved this, guys. Thanks for doing it!
Sam had Ballon Cup on his Top Ten Casual 2-player games a while back...he must have had a horrible play of it, but wow, Top Ten Worst? Lots of funny moments in this one. Zee was on point
What I like about this 10 games hate video. Kind of helps sync what kind of tastes each of you guys have to calibrate the recommendations you guys make. Pretty useful.
Sam nailed why I hate Werewolf. Through zero fault of your own, you can be eliminated in that game in the first 5 minutes. Because every night they are going to kill someone and someone has to be first.
Someone please make a Dungeon Carcassonne!!!! That sounds awesome! with dragons and treasure chests and the meeples can be holding weapons like a sword or staff or bow. How is this not a thing yet?
I haaaaaate Phase 10! When I first visited my wife's family (at the time we were just dating) we played Phase 10 just my wife and I and she whooped me. It took almost 2 hours and she completed phase 10 while I was stuck at 5.
I love Pirates of the Spanish Main too..mainly because of the cool little ships...but we had to house rule the setup to encourage interaction- otherwise it is like Zee described.
1. Dragonology: The Game And here's why Killer Bunnies was rightfully dethroned. I joined a gaming meetup for my area about a month ago and I'm really enjoying myself. I've met several new gamers across a wide range of ages and gaming experience and it has been quite a blast. I only wish I had done it sooner, but that's neither here nor there. Unfortunately, quite possibly my worst gaming experience ever was served to me the first time I went to this meetup. One of the players had brought Dragonology, and I vaguely remembered hearing about it on BoardGameGeek, but couldn't remember anything about it. If only I had. What followed was probably the most torturous 2 hour game session of my life, and thank God it was only that long. Dragonology is a roll and move game where you have to land on different spaces on the board to collect travel tickets (which pretty much let you move anywhere and help you mitigate roll luck) and Bits of Knowledge about various dragons. To win, you must collect 3 Bits of Knowledge for 3 dragons and land by exact roll on the final space to win the game. It is as bad as it sounds. Along with the Bits of Knowledge, about 50% of the deck is composed of a variety of special effect cards, some innocuous or designed to help you acquire dragons faster, others with a decidedly more "take that" mentality. Basically, if you don't draw a shield, you are subject to attack by the other players which can do things like steal cards from your hand, force all players to shuffle up their hands and deal out the cards, or even STEAL ONE OF YOUR DRAGONS. Oh, did I mention that last action cannot be blocked or countered by anything? I was blessed to have amazing draw luck and that the steal action didn't occur in my game. I drew several Wild and Shield cards and quite a few pairs of Bits of Knowledge, so I was able to acquire the 3 dragons needed to win in about an hour and 15 minutes. It still took a long time to roll the required number needed to win the game. The game easily could have gone on for three times the length it did if more of the "take that" cards had come up. I realize I got exceedingly lucky and would not touch this game again with a 10 and a half foot pole. Its one small redeeming quality was the nicely painted dragon miniatures, but this could not save it from being the absolute worst game I have every played in my entire life.
Games I hate the most? Anything co-op that is an "all cards on the table" style. Why? It always ends the same "NO YOU IDIOT, NOT LIKE THAT, LET ME DO IT!" and suddenly a 5 player game becomes a 1 player game if we want to win.
TrueWOPR The God Player Problem is a real issue in co-op games, and it's usually the same guy/girl who takes on that role. Perhaps, fire that person ;-)
It can work if there's not one obvious optimal move to make every turn, like Arkham/Eldritch Horror. But Pandemic (outdated dinosaur) or Fury of Dracula? Forget about it.
I personally feel that Spirit Island handles quarterbacking really well. It's so complex, with so many variables, and so many issues to keep track of - it's impossible for a single player to see the immediate best outcome and instead it necessitates discussion of "I can do this, which will do this, can anyone take advantage of that?" ps - HONK
A potentially controversial Dice Tower 'Top 10' but regardless, Sam and Zee you make every video a joy to watch! Thank you, I love you two guys!
8 ปีที่แล้ว +4
I've never seen anyone fighting to the point of almost start phisically fighting in a game. Playing scruples made me see more than once this happening. I also avoid it like the plague.
This. Have seen it test relationship. And Diplomacy - played it to stalemate twice with two different groups and some of those playing were not talking to others because of their "lying and backstabbing". Another on my list was Nightmare, that you played while.watching a video tape. Had it as a youngster and we tried many times to play and were never able to finish the game in time.
Soooo agree about Factory Fun. This fits in the same category for me as Ricochet Robots. I like puzzle games... but not puzzle board games... especially where there is time pressure. I like taking my time and trying to analyze my options. Put me under a clock and I instantly hate your game. heh
This was my favorite video you guys have done. I want to thank Sam for taking the 100% accurate stand against the pointlessness of Werewolf. As far as myself, my least favorites include Space Alert, Pandemic, and Bugs.
I'm going to catch so much heat for this but my least favorite: Settlers of Catan. The luck-based elements are way too influential, and it's also insanely vulnerable to a little good luck getting someone an insurmountable lead: conversely two or three bad rolls at the start of a game and you can be stuck with no hope of winning. The road mechanic leaves even long-term plans vulnerable to being interrupted at basically any time. It's also been SO played out, I've been forced to play, and play, and play that game, and I'm so over it.
Although I don't think of it as my most hated, I definitely don't love it. The Cities and Knights expansion adds some good things to it that take it up a bunch of notches for me.
I'm glad someone finally said it. Sam said, "You can disagree all you want. It's my personal list." This is the reason I don't watch as many of the videos anymore and why they last so long. Nobody can give their pick without the others then going through why they're wrong. If you like the game or don't like the game, then that's where it ends. They should do them separately.
But their lists aren't always just about liking the game or not, but whether it's the best choice for the list, like essential games or top scifi games. Even in this case, you could make the claim that some of Sam's picks were dubious, considering his top 2 were less than a year old. Kind of hard to say it's your most hated game ever after such a short period of time. I do agree they should discuss their criteria more together beforehand, though.
The reaction of the others to each person's list is what makes these videos interesting and fun to watch. I want to hear their opinions. I think perhaps you should go and find top ten lists you can read, instead of watch. Might be more helpful to you.
Zee was absolutely hilarious in this entire video, great work! I have barely played any of these games btw, which I guess is lucky. I do enjoy an evening playing munchkin with my mates though, just have to not take the game itself seriously, the theme and mental imagery is just hilarious to me
"A pointless bunch of drawings in a box!" -- Zee Garcia And I agree with Sam about Werewolf! It is NOT a game. It's a joyless, social exercise. Not fun at all.
It's nice to see a consistent color palette now on the videos. It really does help understand what's being said and by whom. 22:00 - The new edition of _Sorry!_ allows you to start a pawn with any forward-moving card, and a Sorry can also now act as a forward 4. The Fire and Ice powerups are all sorts of ridiculous and broken, though. 37:00 - Zee, I had a very similar experience when I played _Exiled_. I bought it for $1 at a thrift store because they usually don't know what they have (but their donators do!), and the game was a total mess. It billed itself as an adventure, with the tagline "It's dangerous in the desert". Instead, it was trying to be a trivia game, asking you questions about Bible stories and passages. It even failed at _that_ because players get to *_read the question card_* before answering the question! WHAT?! I'd never destroyed a copy of a game before _Exiled_, but it had to be done. The board was thick enough to be used as a book backing (once properly coated in leather), the token chips were usable once the stickers were removed, and the box was nice and sturdy. That copy of the game, though, had to be euthanized. 44:55 - I had a lot of fun with _Pirates of the Spanish Main_. We used the base rules as a launching point for much more elaborate games with different objectives, turning them into hours-long mini-campaigns. The rules provided were never intended to be a larger game in and of themselves but were meant to be built upon, and in my opinion, therein lies the beauty. 1:06:32 - _Phase 10_ is fun for a little while, but you _really_ have to abridge the game. Ten hands at most, with everyone moving on at the end of the hand, whether they made phase or not. As written in the rules, however, _Phase 10_ takes FOR-bleep-EVER. Actual wars are faster. 1:07:03 - "Time: an eternity". YES. My sentiments exactly. It's okay if you abridge the game (as above), but even then you're there for like two hours.
I don't like Werewolf either. Maybe it's because I've played as a villager over 10 times, or maybe because it's my friends always tell me it's the best game ever. I dunno
I'd like to see a werewolf-esque game about a government agents and a conspiracy. Instead of killing somebody, they get sent for interrogation. If they manage to be freed, then they are turned against the main group and need to be rounded up again. The terrorist agents can complete objectives, plant evidence, or free and turn prisoners. That way nobody is out of the game.
A little bit. I was thinking of a "Freeze Tag" kind of mechanic. The conspirators have an additional action to free people at the expense of the main mission.
Do not ever play with the villagers, remove them from the game. They are a cancer to the game, as they make it possible to always say "I'm a villager" and hinder interaction. Never, ever play with the villagers, they are a beginner trap to have in the game.
This as been out many years ago, and it might have changes since then, but it was a real entertaining watch. You might never read this comment, but just in case... I was very happy to see, my top 2 games being mentionned: Genoa is my lowest rated game on BGG, that was 3 hours of painful, horrid time, I will never play that game again and my second choice is Werewolf, I have to admit, it doesn't feel like a game. It's like people trying to have fun without showing thy are in fact trying to play a game. It doesn't have tokens, cards or dice... :-) I have to add that I totally dissagree with the choice of Liar's Dice, I really like that game. I have played it numerous time, and will play again. What's worst "lying" about how many faces of a die there is, or trying to screw your friends over by selling them goods at a very bad price?? Finally, I just wanted to add the next 3 games I hate the most: Hellapagos, sorry for all the ones who like it, one my worst ever experience in gaming, Agricola. And in fifth place, probably my expectation were way too high... Pipeline. It had everything I could wish for in a game, but though it all, I felt i was at work... Absolutely no fun. Oh, you might have guessed it, I rate all my game based on the fun I had playing it, and these 5, gave me my worst time in gaming... I comment rarely and spend most time looking at older videos, but you are all doing an awesome job!
Zombies! is REALLY bad. Everyone I ever tried it with really wanted it to be good (myself included), but in practice it devolves into an endless slog through miles of zombie infested tiles and it's just... not fun. We ended up eventually going with Last Night On Earth, which is an infinitely funner zombie game overall.
Really? I can't understand why you would hate a game where it feels like you are stuck in an endless loop with very little choices as to what to do in that turn. Where you fire at a zombie by rolling a die on a 1,2,or 3 you miss - 4, 5, 6 you hit. Then you shoot at another zombie and repeat the process until you run out of ammunition. Where the cards in your hand are only useful if you go into a certain buildings that might be on the total other end of the board thus making most of the cards useless in the game. Where when you die you are sent back to the town square with half of the points you have earned in the game to repeat the whole dull process all over again until mercifully the helicopter comes out (and of course the square that it is in is just covered in zombies). What is not to love about a crappy game like that?
Yeah, Zombies is actually fun for the first half hour. The next hour or so, not so much. By the end, we just want SOMEONE to win. We don't care who. Not the sign of a good game.
I don't think this game is very popular (thank god), so I'm not sure how many people have even played it, but my most hated game is without a doubt The Lord of the Rings: The Complete Trilogy - Adventure Board Game. When setting it up, it looks so cool and exciting, but there's nothing there. It's all a masquerade. The gameplay is boring and repetitive for both sides. You move to an enemy orc, attack, roll some dice and get enough damage to kill it. But then you have to roll a 5 or 6 to actually kill it. You don't, and nothing happens. They attack you and do like 3 points of damage to your 50. You attack again, don't kill it. They attack again, do a little bit of damage. Over and over again. That's like 85% of the game mechanics right there. And then, it's some weird semi-cooperative game that's done poorly. All non-Sauron players are on the same side, but only 1 person wins (whoever has the most points). So, at the end of the game, if someone isn't going to win, they're just going to sabotage the fellowship until they get the most points. But then the other person is going to sabotage the fellowship until they reclaim the lead. Horrible mechanic. And it's terribly unbalanced. The fellowship has all 9 characters in play, regardless of the number of players, and they have so many healing items, it's so easy for them. But the game still last hours, and overstays its welcome by a ridiculous amount. Terrible, terrible game.
I was suprised that Talisman didn't make the list, if I remember right I've heard the Dicetower crew slam that game pretty hard sometimes! Personally I think it's "ok" but it's way too long and the roll and move mechanic is annoying, I think the Pathfinder Card Game pretty much fired Talisman for me.
Ive been moderating Werewolf games for almost a year and have never had a game last more than 30 minutes even with 15-20 people, and it's what has got our whole group into the world of board gaming, also what introduced me to Dice Tower, so while it's all opinion, I strongly disagree with Sam.
Have to agree. Yes it sucks if you die first but it’s fun. I’m an English as second language teacher and my students love it. The biggest problem is dying and being left out. For groups of 10 and under we play The Resistance with expansions. It’s even better but Werewolf is great for bigger groups.
It's strange, I've never seen the bluffing in Liar's Dice as "lying", even though it's right there in the name. I've always taught the game as "guessing how many dice are at the table". Everyone knows there's a risk, and the vast majority of Liar's Dice rounds reach the point of claiming things far beyond the realm of possibilities for your own cup very quickly.
My most loathed game is Apples 2 Apples... ugh.. Maybe as an 'icebreaker' activity, but still.. I will do nearly anything to avoid that game, including faking getting sick off any snacks that have been served...
tim donald It's not not a game, it's a non-game... ;) Anyhow, yeah, he does exaggerate a bit, but it is essentially an activity as he explains. It might do to be placed on his over-hyped list. I'm sure some people may enjoy it, but for me, I'm with Sam...
Critical Hit Not a game = non-game For Werewolf, what is the distinction for it to be just an activity and not a game? Since all games are activities but not all activities are games.
Critical Hit Werewolf isn't a "game", it's a politics simulator. I enjoy both playing and watching it because it's all about deception, manipulation and politicking your opponents into helping you. There aren't really any similar games that you can play with a large group of people.
I'd love to see you guys make a list about 10 best old-school games. Games like Dune, Acquire and Civilization would be on my list; add some lesser-known gems like Midway! or Wooden Ships and Iron Men.
Great episode! First, I like the lists at the end of the video it balances the fact that you randomly select order for each number. Secondly, I like zee's list(s) because if he hates a game I know I will like it and if he likes a game I know I will dislike it.
I agree with that, probably because for whatever reason I'm very bad at it and can never seem to get the cards running in the right numerical sequence in my favor.
RE: Pirates of the Spanish Main I actually really like Pirates, but you do have to house rule it a bit. It actually plays better as a light weight war game (almost like X-Wing Lite). As a maneuver-and-fire game, it's fun. Just change the scoring such that sinking another ship is worth more than treasure. Boom. Fixed. (I understand you don't like having to house rule, but this one is so easy to modify since it is soooo light weight). RE: Pictionary Tom - you are playing it t wrong. ;-) I'm terrible at drawing, but the game isn't about drawing. It's about communicating a simple idea quickly (it works better if you play the newer version with a lot more "all play" cards, because it becomes about speed, not accuracy). You need stick figures at best for Pictionary. I don't particularly love this game, but I think your complaint isn't a strong one. RE: Phase 10 Meh. Not that I love this game either, but it's just a Rummy variant, so I'm not sure why it gets a #1 spot. It's not that terrible. I'd rather play other games, but there are a lot of games where I'd rather play something else. RE: Werewolf I also don't like games where you get knocked out right away, but there are a number of rule variants where even when you are knocked out, you don't have to be completely out. One Night has a better design that way, but there are even versions of "traditional" Werewolf where one can stay in the game. I do prefer Resistance / Avalon but those only support fewer players. Definitely better with 10 or less.
I think the worst game I ever played has to be Dirty Minds. It's "novelty" wore off in like 15 minutes, and the game can take an hour or more. Fluxx is another contender, I hate it beyond belief
Every once in a while I come watch one of these OG Dice Tower to 10s just for the nostalgia. This era is when I first got into the hobby and it's mostly ya'lls fault.
crz4rg yes. Hated. Stupid game. Especially when you play with people who gang up to play back to back you can't do anything this turn cards on you, not because you're in front, just because they can... Yawn.
The only times I played phase 10, I got about half way through and tried to figure out how to get out of playing the rest of the game... and I was winning!
Alright, let me pause at number 4 for a while just to say this: This has to be one of the funniest Top 10s you guys have put out. I laughed out loud multiple times. And there's still about half an hour to go through.
I hate Monopoly with a passion. It's so random that there's almost no thought in playing it. I hate Talisman for the same reason. I'm utterly perplexed that so many people like that game.
+Harry BuddhaPalm There is no thought to it; the only people who claim there's strategy to it are people who think scrabble is deep and complex. (but wouldn't touch something as simple as Risk with a 10' pole because it's "too complex")
+Harry BuddhaPalm My main problem with Monopoly is that it only ends when people get fed up. Once somebody takes the lead, "abandon all hope" might as well boom at that moment. Another problem is that because of that game's popularity, THAT is what people think when they hear 'board games', hence their unwillingness to try anything new.
+Harry BuddhaPalm Monopoly is a good game. If you think it's random, you should play against a good player. Chances are, he'll win. It's not random, because you know the chances of the die roles and after a couple of games, you know the cards in the deck. Yes, you can get screwed over, but it can happen in a lot of games. I've had games of Carcassonne, a good game, where I had the misfortune of placing my meeples in cities which I never drew the ending tiles for. I could never close my city and my meeples were stuck. Tell me how that's different. The thing is, monopoly is a game you can play incorrectly. You have to constantly be engaged in trades and looking ahead. If you play it as a simple roll and move game, you'll have a bad time. You have to play it where you aren't afraid to spend your money. Spending 3/4 of your money to get 1 good monopoly and nothing else might be the best thing to do. Try to influence other trades. Convincing players of trades you think is fair. Plus, be heartless. Don't do things like giving players money to stay in the game. Don't play with the houserule to put money for free parking. It only drags out the game. I agree, the game is old and pretty bad because it doesn't provide you with this knowledge. It never pushes you to play this way. Modern games are a lot better in making an exciting game by itself. Monopoly needs player who play correctly for the game to work.
Good job with a topic that could have gone off the rails. Even when I had different opinions, I liked hearing everyone's reasoning. Good criteria of requiring at least 100 ratings too.
I had a similar experience with werewolf (and Salem). We played with three people in werewolf (which turns out that game is NOT a three player game though they advertise it as such) and in approximately 10 seconds after opening our eyes we deduce who the werewolf was and...game over. Salem, turns out, it doesn't matter HOW many people you play with, you can get lucky and find the witch cards right away. We played a game with 6 people (might have been 5 - whichever is the max # before a second witch card is used) and, call us lucky as Hell, but just about every game ended with someone finding the witch card in a matter of minutes.
Cards Against Humanity. This is easily the dumbest game I have ever played. It was fun for about 5 minutes the first time I played it and now I just cringe when someone brings that stupid black box over. I am by no means a prude, and this game doesn't offend me, It just ISN'T FUNNY.
I suppose it depends on who you're playing with. I've never played a game of Cards Against Humanity with my friends that wasn't hilarious, and we are definitely not into scatological humour.
![TEEDEE TADA - DIAMOND NARAKORN X LEGO LYKN [Special Dance Performance]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QgtZedFeumA/mqdefault.jpg)
For the record, I want to say that I HATED making this list. I am glad, though, that people are enjoying watching the list.
Why someone HATES a game can very often be the reason why someone else LOVES it. That makes for controversy, which is why Tom wanted to do it, I suppose...and I can't say that I've shied away from controversy in the past...;)
I do sincerely thank everyone for watching, though. It means a lot that you make us part of your day!
Sam! When is the ti3 stream?! You're my brain on this panel.
For the record, I've noticed that Zee is much better at selling me on his point of view than Sam who is rather blunt and straightforward. That said, when I've had time to evaluate the games discussed I more often than not agree with Sam. The takeaway being that you shouldn't trust Zee just because of his smooth talk and you shouldn't discount Sam's opinion.
...and of course just mostly ignore Tom :)
I was a bit surprised to see a "negative" list, and I can imagine it was difficult for everyone.. but especially you, Sam. Thanks for giving it a good shot.
I understood your Jedi Council joke/reference, Sam! So, it landed with at least one person.
Yeah this was a really good one. And it shows i think a little more about you as a gamer than your top 100 did. Very intriguing, and yeah kudos on calling out newer games that should be called out on.
BTW yeah... Tom did make the same argument as you in his quelf bit.
When I was around 12 I asked for and got Scruples as a Christmas present. My two younger sisters and I decided to try this game out. Most of the questions were harmless ethical situations such as, "If you got extra change at the store, would you return it to the clerk?" But several of the questions were quite risqué, such as "Your lover moans and groans during lovemaking, and you find it a turn off. Do you tell him or her?" Needless to say, it was rather uncomfortable talking about such things with siblings.
A few days after we played our mom asked to play Scruples with us. My sister and I went into our best lawyer/salesman mode. We fervently made the case that another board game we had received that year, 20 Questions, was more fun, and that our mom should play that instead. In fact, the 20 Questions game was quite boring...but a lot better than having to interrogate our mom about her love life and then vote on whether or not she was lying to us!
Our attempts at persuasion must have worked, because we never had to endure the horror of playing Scruples with our mom.
Infomercial Hell b
I know generally the Dice Tower prefers to be positive, but this really is pretty funny. While I hope DT doesn't turn into a hate fest, glad you broke form here for a minute. :)
Totally agree. Every now and then, it kind of feels good to watch an episode like this one.
If we put all your facial hair together you get one full beard!
Or full (scalp) hair
Lmfao
02:17 - Sam’s #10 Ballons cup
03:59 - Tom’s #10 Mad Zeppelin
05:29 - Zee’s #10 Aye, Dark Overlord
07:14 - Tom’s #9 Penguin
08:52 - Zee’s #9 Genoa
10:10 - Sam’s #9 Werewolf
13:04 - Zee’s #8 Junta
14:43 - Sam’s #8 What's he building in there?
16:40 - Tom’s #8 New World:Carcassonne
18:48 - Zee’s #7 Kragmortha
21:02 - Tom’s #7 Sorry!
23:17 - Sam’s #7 Quarantine
26:19 - Tom’s #6 Pictionary
29:07 - Sam’s #6 Gifttrap
31:18 - Zee’s #6 18AL
34:06 - Sam’s #5 The doom that came to Atlantic city
35:50 - Zee’s #5 Monkey Lab
37:30 - Tom’s #5 Crocodile Pool Party
39:32 - Sam’s #4 Liar's Dice
43:16 - Tom’s #4 Chinese Checkers
44:43 - Zee’s #4 Pirates of the Spanish Main
47:30 - Tom’s #3 The Haunting House
49:36 - Zee’s #3 Weapons of Mass Destruction
51:37 - Sam’s #3 Factory Fun
53:39 - Zee’s #2 Gloria Mundi
56:10 - Sam’s #2 Temporum
59:05 - Tom’s #2 Quelf
01:02:09 - Sam’s #1 Rattlebones
01:05:57 - Tom’s #1 Phase 10
01:07:20 - Zee’s #1 Scruples
You’re a saint
@@geegrant865 😃🤗 Appreciate it.
Nice one
You dont have to lie in liar's dice idgi.
I cant believe Skip-bo didn't make the list.
I dated this girl once who's family played Skip-Bo at EVERY family gathering. Loved her, loved her family HATED that game. It got to the point last year while visting them for Thanksgiving, I went out and bought copies of Fluxx, Play Nine, and a Cribbage board(and deck) in the hope they would like one of them and then I would give them it so next time we could play that instead of Skip-bo. It worked too. The kids loved Fluxx(Pirate), the grown-ups started a Cribbage tournament. WIN!!!
I put Skip-Bo in the same boat as Phase 10. My in-laws love both of the games...ugh
I would rather play 1000 rounds of skip-bo vs phase 10 because 1000 rounds of skip-bo takes about as long as one game of phase 10. That game is my kryptonite, uggggh.
I thought it wasn't going to be a happy ending lol
Sounds like my adoptive family if they played with house rules 1 and 7
That close up on Sam when he says "Sooorrryyy" is pure gold.
Sam's facial hair + Tom's facial hair = Zee's facial hair
Yeah, but what about the bonce? noun Brit. informal; a person's head - origin mid 19th cent. (denoting a large marble): of unknown origin.
you win the internet today
Agreed.
LOOOOOOL!
Best thing I have read all day :P
36:43 "I bought this game for $2. I played the game. As soon as I played it, I immediately put the game in the trash, and I felt ripped off. I was out my $2." LOL
This made me LOL too. They're all funny guys but Zee is hilarious!
How about a top 10 games under $20?
Check out their top 10 stocking stuffers for (more or less) that list.
Star Realms should be number 1 through 10 on that list! If you don't have it, go get it NOW.
***** except some of us loathe deckbuilders...
Oh my God, that's the saddest thing I've heard all day! Hey, different strokes and all that.
***** That's how I feel whenever the Dice Tower folks trash talk Euros. XD I love Eurogames - but like you said, different strokes.
Werewolf translates pretty well to videogame in the form of Town of Salem. Because the mechanics are handled by the computer it runs a lot smoother, secret keeping is a lot easier, and there if you die on the first turn (Which happens a lot) you can just jump right back into another game.
"It's a stupid activity. A pointless bunch of drawings in a box." - Most brutal review ever lol
Tom's rockin' fist-pump reaction (29:15) is priceless! I replayed a bunch of times and it just gets more an more hilarious, particularly when you realize its actually Zee;s loud laughing that looks like its coming from Tom!
Re: Pictionary - there are other paths to winning other than drawing well. I'd argue that understanding of how to adequately symbolize your subject is much more helpful than simply being able to draw well. Well-used stick figures are much more useful in Pictionary than well-drawn art, simply because it is faster, if nothing else.
+Roger Cline Just saying there are a lot of people who cant manage a stick figure very well. I work with a lot of them and seriously its a little sad to watch.
+Roger Cline Just saying there are a lot of people who cant manage a stick figure very well. I work with a lot of them and seriously its a little sad to watch.
+Michael Chandler true. I'm just saying it's a different skill than fine art. Being fast and well-conceived is much more important than being a great artist.
+Roger Cline
Pictionary: If you can't draw, you're gonna have a bad time.
TrueWOPR but there's a difference between drawing *well* and drawing well *for Pictionary*
Didn't know others hate Phase 10 as much as I do! I feel validated :)
Aahhh I come back to this list every once in a while and it is allways so much fun to watch!!! Great job guys!
Oh how these guys crack me up. Especially as they reach their top 3s and try to come up with new ways to describe how much they loathe that game. Very entertaining!
I love seeing you guys get passionate aboot games, even if it's towards the ones you hate. Makes for great viewing!!! Only one I want to comment on is the game Phase 10, which we a have house ruled so that no matter who finishes a stage, you just score that stage, and everyone movies onto the next one. Not only does it get rid of the being on different stages, but also speeds up the game.
"Would you like to play Phase 10?" "NO, you demon!!".....LOL, Zee
Tom on Pictionary: "You are rewarded for drawing well."
If that's what you think then that's why you didn't like the game. Pictionary is not about drawing well, it's about communicating quickly and efficiently via paper and pencil. Simple drawings work best, such a stick figures, and figuring out the communication was what made it fun.
I got hours and hours of entertainment from Pictionary back in the 90's. Great game!
Maybe you don't have to draw well, but it does require a specific skill.
So do all games. Basically, most people who are more logically minded are going to be better at strategic or tactical games. People who are able to communicate ideas quickly will be better at Pictionary, Dixit, Cranium, etc. Dexterity games require dexterity. It's a poor complaint because someone will always be better than someone else at an aspect of the game.
11:20 - Sam, I feel your pain. The first gaming party I hosted, I started with Werewolf (using home-made, P-n-P cards) with me as the moderator. I felt so bad as I watched the first couple of people eliminated - in a 10-player game - sit around while others are still kinda, sorta interested. The worst part was that we really only had one "special" role... and he was the first one eliminated! Didn't get to use their special power at all.
We ended up playing Category 5/Slide 5/6 Nimmt for the rest of the day, since there is no elimination and it is easy to learn.
I was introduced to Mafia as a pick up game during a New Years Eve party. It was NOT advertised as a gaming party. Two dozen people. Cool, get to meet new people. Well HELLO, cute girl! Oh really you're into that me too? You just moved to the area? Sure I know some places...
"Okay everyone! Gather around for Mafia!"
Get eliminated FIRST. Not allowed to talk. Wandered off into the kitchen. Game lasted until the midnight count! Everyone goes home.
Screw you, Mafia!
Zee Garcia: Voice of the People. And by the people, I mean Sam Healey.
Seriously Zee, you're getting a little bitter. I like it :P
"THIS IS A BUNCH OF POINTLESS DRAWINGS IN A BOX." ~ Favorite Zee line to date, out of a long list of favorite Zee lines.
I can think of few youtubers that crack me up as much as Zee does. Great list!
I disagree with pictionary, I think the yelling and small frustration of the game is fun, and it's the ability to transmit an idea clearly, not only drawing
You hated 'Quarantine' in 2015...would love to hear your thoughts today! LOL!!
Sam Healy: In Liar's dice you HAVE to lie to win, so Sam hates it.
Sam Healy: I like resistance.
Im pretty sure you can play liar's dice without 'lying', and actually still win. It has a hell of a lot to do with unknown information.
But resistance ... if you are on the evil side, and if you don't lie, well .. I would just say I'm really curious how Sam plays resistance, or anything along those lines. :-/
It's not that I always disagree with Sam's choices, but his reasoning is often very biased.
He did say he was okay with it if it fit into a theme...
There goes my plans to pledge at the "Game with Zee" level in next year's Kickstarter. Who would have thought he hated 18XX games? I thought he loved sitting around a table playing one game for 10 hours.
EASILY my favourite Top 10 that you guys have ever done. Well done guys, hilarious! :D
Werewolf has some amazingly great game concepts, but player elimination (especially when it can happen quick in a possibly long game) is one of the worst game mechanics.
I love that the lists were so different and even opposed in view. Sooo subjective. The game
"Sorry" is really like gaming training wheels. Sure you hate training wheels now, but when you were like 3, you loved it!
Tom, I haven't played all the games on your list, but I can confirm the Phase 10 is the worst game I've ever played.
I played it with my family back when I was in high school.
I got so bored, that I slammed my forhead on the table, and one of my cards stuck to my forhead. It was the highlight of the night. Worse game ever.
liar's dice is not lying and it is not pure bluffing. You don't know if you are bluffing or not. You could be right by saying 7 sixes, you just don't know. Nevertheless an excellent game. You don't know if you lie or tell the truth.
I'm glad you said that. From Sam's description, I thought I was playing this game wrong for years.
True story.
Not always. For example, If two players have 5 die each and you say "6 threes" but you have no threes that is both a lie and a bluff that you are aware of.
AHeadC That's still not lying at all. It's basically just guessing.
Con Cahill No, it's a lie. If you KNOW the number of dice is impossible (like in my example), it's a lie not a guess.
Clearly you don't know what guessing and/or lying means.
Agree completely with Tom's #1 choice!!! Phase 10 is evil and I will completely refuse to play it. It is stinking hard enough to get your phases and then people can skip you or play theirs first and leave you behind. I have been angry over this game to the point where I felt personally attacked by it because people can team up on you with skips and purposefully make you lose. Tom is right, this is the one game I totally won't play!
Please make another updated video for this :(
One of my best memories is actually playing Phase 10 for about 8 hours straight with my best friend while on vacation. She'd mentioned how she always beat her family, but first time playing I ended up winning all but one of our games. My family gets annoyed while playing with me as well though because I get stupidly lucky a lot of the time. What helped make it fun for everyone though is making a base rule like everyone gets 3 (or w/e) turns before you can play your Phase. Gives everyone a chance if someone's getting out immediately constantly. Anyways this was an interesting video, just watched 3 hours of you guys tonight. Cheers. :)
I think you're wrong about Pictionary - you don't need to be a good artist at pictionary any more than you need to be a good actor to play Charades. It's more about being able to quickly and simply present an idea without words. I'm a rubbish artist, but tend to be pretty good at Pictionary.
I think I'd agree with this. In fact, my sister hates the game because she's a good draw-er, but she doesn't like being rushed to draw. Of course, she also hates it because she just hates games....
Agree completely. I draw with stick figures but I can get my team to guess the word most of the time in Pictionary. It's about using the tools at your disposal, not making a masterpiece. Shortcuts! Clues! Rebus pictures! Think outside the box to get your point across
It's misleading to say you need to be a "good artist" because they makes it sound like you need to be an ACCURATE artist. It's probably more accurate to say you need to be something like a good iconographer, someone who can make a very simple image with just a minimal number of lines that captures the essence of what it is you're trying to represent. Like being able to get across the concept of a mouse by just drawing a curved M for the ears, a couple whiskers, a semi circle body and a curly tail.
Otherwise what Tom is saying is absolutely true. The game is absolutely no fun for people who aren't good at drawing that kind of imagery and other games like Telestrations are fun for everyone regardless of their ability.
I agree with your assessment that Pictionary isn't about drawing well but more about drawing enough to communicate what your trying to say. Leonardo, Donatello or the rest of the Ninja Turtles would do poorly if they were to try to take their time drawing a nice picture rather than communicating things. I can see those that don't do well with creative thinking in general having problems with this game. I wonder how they might feel about Concept.
I'm actually a really good artist who sucks at pictionary, because my default mode is "make a picture look good" rather than "get the idea out there", so the argument about Pictionary only being good for good artists holds no water either way you look at it.
I love that Sam says Qwirkle instead of Quelf, but Zee still knows exactly what he's talking about :D.
I would have to say my #1 most hated game would have to be a little game called Lice Shower. Impossible to find for a reason.
I didn't know many of the games you guys discussed but it was super entertaining! You all have great chemistry together
"I HATE GIVING GIFTS"
-Sam Healey 2015
I don't like Liar's Dice at all either - for the same reason Sam gave.
I am a really lousy liar (when I choose to!) and I am really a lousy liar when I am forced to. I don't like lying anyway...that may also be a problem.
I loved this, guys. Thanks for doing it!
Sam had Ballon Cup on his Top Ten Casual 2-player games a while back...he must have had a horrible play of it, but wow, Top Ten Worst?
Lots of funny moments in this one. Zee was on point
Tom had said Sam used to like it, it's good to hear some more background, thanks!
What I like about this 10 games hate video. Kind of helps sync what kind of tastes each of you guys have to calibrate the recommendations you guys make. Pretty useful.
Sam nailed why I hate Werewolf. Through zero fault of your own, you can be eliminated in that game in the first 5 minutes. Because every night they are going to kill someone and someone has to be first.
Underneath the video was an ad to buy Junta. Way to go marketing.
Someone please make a Dungeon Carcassonne!!!! That sounds awesome! with dragons and treasure chests and the meeples can be holding weapons like a sword or staff or bow. How is this not a thing yet?
You should check out "Delve" by Richard Launius from Indie Boards & Cards. That might fit your bill.
Or Carcassonne: The Gard Game
Grunok there was a StarWars Carcassone so why not a Dungeon version. 🤙
I'm so glad Sam said "SORRRRRRRRYYYYYYY".... I was waiting for that! LOL
Aye, Dark Overlord sounds like it could be hilarious but is definitely an activity rather than a game
I haaaaaate Phase 10! When I first visited my wife's family (at the time we were just dating) we played Phase 10 just my wife and I and she whooped me. It took almost 2 hours and she completed phase 10 while I was stuck at 5.
I love Pirates of the Spanish Main too..mainly because of the cool little ships...but we had to house rule the setup to encourage interaction- otherwise it is like Zee described.
It is a great game!
1. Dragonology: The Game
And here's why Killer Bunnies was rightfully dethroned. I joined a gaming meetup for my area about a month ago and I'm really enjoying myself. I've met several new gamers across a wide range of ages and gaming experience and it has been quite a blast. I only wish I had done it sooner, but that's neither here nor there. Unfortunately, quite possibly my worst gaming experience ever was served to me the first time I went to this meetup. One of the players had brought Dragonology, and I vaguely remembered hearing about it on BoardGameGeek, but couldn't remember anything about it. If only I had. What followed was probably the most torturous 2 hour game session of my life, and thank God it was only that long. Dragonology is a roll and move game where you have to land on different spaces on the board to collect travel tickets (which pretty much let you move anywhere and help you mitigate roll luck) and Bits of Knowledge about various dragons. To win, you must collect 3 Bits of Knowledge for 3 dragons and land by exact roll on the final space to win the game. It is as bad as it sounds. Along with the Bits of Knowledge, about 50% of the deck is composed of a variety of special effect cards, some innocuous or designed to help you acquire dragons faster, others with a decidedly more "take that" mentality. Basically, if you don't draw a shield, you are subject to attack by the other players which can do things like steal cards from your hand, force all players to shuffle up their hands and deal out the cards, or even STEAL ONE OF YOUR DRAGONS. Oh, did I mention that last action cannot be blocked or countered by anything? I was blessed to have amazing draw luck and that the steal action didn't occur in my game. I drew several Wild and Shield cards and quite a few pairs of Bits of Knowledge, so I was able to acquire the 3 dragons needed to win in about an hour and 15 minutes. It still took a long time to roll the required number needed to win the game. The game easily could have gone on for three times the length it did if more of the "take that" cards had come up. I realize I got exceedingly lucky and would not touch this game again with a 10 and a half foot pole. Its one small redeeming quality was the nicely painted dragon miniatures, but this could not save it from being the absolute worst game I have every played in my entire life.
Games I hate the most?
Anything co-op that is an "all cards on the table" style.
Why?
It always ends the same
"NO YOU IDIOT, NOT LIKE THAT, LET ME DO IT!"
and suddenly a 5 player game becomes a 1 player game if we want to win.
TrueWOPR The God Player Problem is a real issue in co-op games, and it's usually the same guy/girl who takes on that role. Perhaps, fire that person ;-)
It can work if there's not one obvious optimal move to make every turn, like Arkham/Eldritch Horror. But Pandemic (outdated dinosaur) or Fury of Dracula? Forget about it.
I personally feel that Spirit Island handles quarterbacking really well. It's so complex, with so many variables, and so many issues to keep track of - it's impossible for a single player to see the immediate best outcome and instead it necessitates discussion of "I can do this, which will do this, can anyone take advantage of that?"
ps - HONK
A potentially controversial Dice Tower 'Top 10' but regardless, Sam and Zee you make every video a joy to watch! Thank you, I love you two guys!
I've never seen anyone fighting to the point of almost start phisically fighting in a game. Playing scruples made me see more than once this happening. I also avoid it like the plague.
This. Have seen it test relationship. And Diplomacy - played it to stalemate twice with two different groups and some of those playing were not talking to others because of their "lying and backstabbing".
Another on my list was Nightmare, that you played while.watching a video tape. Had it as a youngster and we tried many times to play and were never able to finish the game in time.
Had to watch this again, love the interaction and it always makes me laugh, luckily I've avoided most of these games
Soooo agree about Factory Fun. This fits in the same category for me as Ricochet Robots. I like puzzle games... but not puzzle board games... especially where there is time pressure. I like taking my time and trying to analyze my options. Put me under a clock and I instantly hate your game. heh
This was my favorite video you guys have done. I want to thank Sam for taking the 100% accurate stand against the pointlessness of Werewolf. As far as myself, my least favorites include Space Alert, Pandemic, and Bugs.
I'm going to catch so much heat for this but my least favorite: Settlers of Catan.
The luck-based elements are way too influential, and it's also insanely vulnerable to a little good luck getting someone an insurmountable lead: conversely two or three bad rolls at the start of a game and you can be stuck with no hope of winning. The road mechanic leaves even long-term plans vulnerable to being interrupted at basically any time.
It's also been SO played out, I've been forced to play, and play, and play that game, and I'm so over it.
Have you tried the poverty/welfare variants or the "Traders & Barbarians" expansion?
Although I don't think of it as my most hated, I definitely don't love it. The Cities and Knights expansion adds some good things to it that take it up a bunch of notches for me.
I'm glad someone finally said it. Sam said, "You can disagree all you want. It's my personal list." This is the reason I don't watch as many of the videos anymore and why they last so long. Nobody can give their pick without the others then going through why they're wrong. If you like the game or don't like the game, then that's where it ends. They should do them separately.
I personally feel their banter and interaction make these lists more fun.
But their lists aren't always just about liking the game or not, but whether it's the best choice for the list, like essential games or top scifi games.
Even in this case, you could make the claim that some of Sam's picks were dubious, considering his top 2 were less than a year old. Kind of hard to say it's your most hated game ever after such a short period of time.
I do agree they should discuss their criteria more together beforehand, though.
The reaction of the others to each person's list is what makes these videos interesting and fun to watch. I want to hear their opinions.
I think perhaps you should go and find top ten lists you can read, instead of watch. Might be more helpful to you.
I am amazed that Monopoly isn't on the list anywhere.
10tonhamster It's not broken like the listed games. It's just random and boring.
Zee was absolutely hilarious in this entire video, great work! I have barely played any of these games btw, which I guess is lucky. I do enjoy an evening playing munchkin with my mates though, just have to not take the game itself seriously, the theme and mental imagery is just hilarious to me
"A pointless bunch of drawings in a box!" -- Zee Garcia
And I agree with Sam about Werewolf! It is NOT a game. It's a joyless, social exercise. Not fun at all.
Sam, totally agree with your opinion on Rattlebones. I would never play that game again.
At our highschool games club we play werewolf every time and we get through a game with 15 people in about 10-20 minutes depending what cards we add
the Resistance is sooo much better
And Avalon:The Resistance is soooo much better than regular The Resistance.
It's nice to see a consistent color palette now on the videos. It really does help understand what's being said and by whom.
22:00 - The new edition of _Sorry!_ allows you to start a pawn with any forward-moving card, and a Sorry can also now act as a forward 4. The Fire and Ice powerups are all sorts of ridiculous and broken, though.
37:00 - Zee, I had a very similar experience when I played _Exiled_. I bought it for $1 at a thrift store because they usually don't know what they have (but their donators do!), and the game was a total mess. It billed itself as an adventure, with the tagline "It's dangerous in the desert". Instead, it was trying to be a trivia game, asking you questions about Bible stories and passages. It even failed at _that_ because players get to *_read the question card_* before answering the question! WHAT?!
I'd never destroyed a copy of a game before _Exiled_, but it had to be done. The board was thick enough to be used as a book backing (once properly coated in leather), the token chips were usable once the stickers were removed, and the box was nice and sturdy. That copy of the game, though, had to be euthanized.
44:55 - I had a lot of fun with _Pirates of the Spanish Main_. We used the base rules as a launching point for much more elaborate games with different objectives, turning them into hours-long mini-campaigns. The rules provided were never intended to be a larger game in and of themselves but were meant to be built upon, and in my opinion, therein lies the beauty.
1:06:32 - _Phase 10_ is fun for a little while, but you _really_ have to abridge the game. Ten hands at most, with everyone moving on at the end of the hand, whether they made phase or not. As written in the rules, however, _Phase 10_ takes FOR-bleep-EVER. Actual wars are faster.
1:07:03 - "Time: an eternity". YES. My sentiments exactly. It's okay if you abridge the game (as above), but even then you're there for like two hours.
I don't like Werewolf either. Maybe it's because I've played as a villager over 10 times, or maybe because it's my friends always tell me it's the best game ever. I dunno
I'd like to see a werewolf-esque game about a government agents and a conspiracy. Instead of killing somebody, they get sent for interrogation. If they manage to be freed, then they are turned against the main group and need to be rounded up again. The terrorist agents can complete objectives, plant evidence, or free and turn prisoners. That way nobody is out of the game.
You're describing boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/41114/resistance pretty well.
A little bit. I was thinking of a "Freeze Tag" kind of mechanic. The conspirators have an additional action to free people at the expense of the main mission.
It is the best game ever.
You get what you put in with Werewolf/Mafia.
Do not ever play with the villagers, remove them from the game. They are a cancer to the game, as they make it possible to always say "I'm a villager" and hinder interaction. Never, ever play with the villagers, they are a beginner trap to have in the game.
This as been out many years ago, and it might have changes since then, but it was a real entertaining watch. You might never read this comment, but just in case...
I was very happy to see, my top 2 games being mentionned: Genoa is my lowest rated game on BGG, that was 3 hours of painful, horrid time, I will never play that game again and my second choice is Werewolf, I have to admit, it doesn't feel like a game. It's like people trying to have fun without showing thy are in fact trying to play a game. It doesn't have tokens, cards or dice... :-)
I have to add that I totally dissagree with the choice of Liar's Dice, I really like that game. I have played it numerous time, and will play again. What's worst "lying" about how many faces of a die there is, or trying to screw your friends over by selling them goods at a very bad price??
Finally, I just wanted to add the next 3 games I hate the most: Hellapagos, sorry for all the ones who like it, one my worst ever experience in gaming, Agricola. And in fifth place, probably my expectation were way too high... Pipeline. It had everything I could wish for in a game, but though it all, I felt i was at work... Absolutely no fun.
Oh, you might have guessed it, I rate all my game based on the fun I had playing it, and these 5, gave me my worst time in gaming...
I comment rarely and spend most time looking at older videos, but you are all doing an awesome job!
I disagree with the Pictionary analysis. You are not rewarded for drawing well, you are rewarded for drawing smartly.
It is still a skill.
Zee referencing Parks & Rec totally made my day! I like this guy more and more every time he opens his mouth.
Zombies! is REALLY bad. Everyone I ever tried it with really wanted it to be good (myself included), but in practice it devolves into an endless slog through miles of zombie infested tiles and it's just... not fun.
We ended up eventually going with Last Night On Earth, which is an infinitely funner zombie game overall.
Really? I can't understand why you would hate a game where it feels like you are stuck in an endless loop with very little choices as to what to do in that turn. Where you fire at a zombie by rolling a die on a 1,2,or 3 you miss - 4, 5, 6 you hit. Then you shoot at another zombie and repeat the process until you run out of ammunition. Where the cards in your hand are only useful if you go into a certain buildings that might be on the total other end of the board thus making most of the cards useless in the game. Where when you die you are sent back to the town square with half of the points you have earned in the game to repeat the whole dull process all over again until mercifully the helicopter comes out (and of course the square that it is in is just covered in zombies).
What is not to love about a crappy game like that?
Yeah, Zombies is actually fun for the first half hour. The next hour or so, not so much. By the end, we just want SOMEONE to win. We don't care who. Not the sign of a good game.
I wanted to like Zombies!!
It does provide neat pieces and could probably do well with a variant.
Thank you for making this. There are a lot of videos showing great games but knowing which ones to avoid is also very helpful. Good job.
I don't think this game is very popular (thank god), so I'm not sure how many people have even played it, but my most hated game is without a doubt The Lord of the Rings: The Complete Trilogy - Adventure Board Game. When setting it up, it looks so cool and exciting, but there's nothing there. It's all a masquerade.
The gameplay is boring and repetitive for both sides. You move to an enemy orc, attack, roll some dice and get enough damage to kill it. But then you have to roll a 5 or 6 to actually kill it. You don't, and nothing happens. They attack you and do like 3 points of damage to your 50. You attack again, don't kill it. They attack again, do a little bit of damage. Over and over again. That's like 85% of the game mechanics right there.
And then, it's some weird semi-cooperative game that's done poorly. All non-Sauron players are on the same side, but only 1 person wins (whoever has the most points). So, at the end of the game, if someone isn't going to win, they're just going to sabotage the fellowship until they get the most points. But then the other person is going to sabotage the fellowship until they reclaim the lead. Horrible mechanic.
And it's terribly unbalanced. The fellowship has all 9 characters in play, regardless of the number of players, and they have so many healing items, it's so easy for them. But the game still last hours, and overstays its welcome by a ridiculous amount.
Terrible, terrible game.
I was suprised that Talisman didn't make the list, if I remember right I've heard the Dicetower crew slam that game pretty hard sometimes! Personally I think it's "ok" but it's way too long and the roll and move mechanic is annoying, I think the Pathfinder Card Game pretty much fired Talisman for me.
Ive been moderating Werewolf games for almost a year and have never had a game last more than 30 minutes even with 15-20 people, and it's what has got our whole group into the world of board gaming, also what introduced me to Dice Tower, so while it's all opinion, I strongly disagree with Sam.
Have to agree. Yes it sucks if you die first but it’s fun. I’m an English as second language teacher and my students love it. The biggest problem is dying and being left out. For groups of 10 and under we play The Resistance with expansions. It’s even better but Werewolf is great for bigger groups.
It's strange, I've never seen the bluffing in Liar's Dice as "lying", even though it's right there in the name. I've always taught the game as "guessing how many dice are at the table". Everyone knows there's a risk, and the vast majority of Liar's Dice rounds reach the point of claiming things far beyond the realm of possibilities for your own cup very quickly.
My most loathed game is Apples 2 Apples... ugh.. Maybe as an 'icebreaker' activity, but still.. I will do nearly anything to avoid that game, including faking getting sick off any snacks that have been served...
I totally agree. I will do anything to avoid Apples 2 Apples.
Agree! I super-hate that game.
well good thing alternatives like shomovie exist
@43:28 "YOU SIT DOWN AND PLAY THESE CHINESE CHECKERS!" "YOU WANT DINNER TONIGHT, PICK UP THESE MARBLES!!" Had me freaking dying 🤣😂🤣
Gloria Mundi must be Kai-Adi-Mundi's sister.
Please do an updated version of this list!
ANyy chance of an update in 2018?
Agree with you on Werewolf.
I still . . . "play" it, but my enjoyment is entirely derived from the people playing it, not the game.
Sam, yes ---I agree 100%, Werewolf is totally a non-game...
While I agree with his criticisms I would like to know how that makes it not a game?
tim donald It's not not a game, it's a non-game... ;)
Anyhow, yeah, he does exaggerate a bit, but it is essentially an activity as he explains. It might do to be placed on his over-hyped list.
I'm sure some people may enjoy it, but for me, I'm with Sam...
Critical Hit
Not a game = non-game
For Werewolf, what is the distinction for it to be just an activity and not a game? Since all games are activities but not all activities are games.
tim donald I'm not saying that ---but if you like it, fine...
Critical Hit Werewolf isn't a "game", it's a politics simulator. I enjoy both playing and watching it because it's all about deception, manipulation and politicking your opponents into helping you. There aren't really any similar games that you can play with a large group of people.
I'd love to see you guys make a list about 10 best old-school games. Games like Dune, Acquire and Civilization would be on my list; add some lesser-known gems like Midway! or Wooden Ships and Iron Men.
hahaha every time sam says a game I think tom is going to break out crying
Great episode! First, I like the lists at the end of the video it balances the fact that you randomly select order for each number. Secondly, I like zee's list(s) because if he hates a game I know I will like it and if he likes a game I know I will dislike it.
Skip-Bo is one of my most hated games
I agree with that, probably because for whatever reason I'm very bad at it and can never seem to get the cards running in the right numerical sequence in my favor.
RE: Pirates of the Spanish Main
I actually really like Pirates, but you do have to house rule it a bit. It actually plays better as a light weight war game (almost like X-Wing Lite). As a maneuver-and-fire game, it's fun. Just change the scoring such that sinking another ship is worth more than treasure. Boom. Fixed. (I understand you don't like having to house rule, but this one is so easy to modify since it is soooo light weight).
RE: Pictionary
Tom - you are playing it t wrong. ;-) I'm terrible at drawing, but the game isn't about drawing. It's about communicating a simple idea quickly (it works better if you play the newer version with a lot more "all play" cards, because it becomes about speed, not accuracy). You need stick figures at best for Pictionary. I don't particularly love this game, but I think your complaint isn't a strong one.
RE: Phase 10
Meh. Not that I love this game either, but it's just a Rummy variant, so I'm not sure why it gets a #1 spot. It's not that terrible. I'd rather play other games, but there are a lot of games where I'd rather play something else.
RE: Werewolf
I also don't like games where you get knocked out right away, but there are a number of rule variants where even when you are knocked out, you don't have to be completely out. One Night has a better design that way, but there are even versions of "traditional" Werewolf where one can stay in the game. I do prefer Resistance / Avalon but those only support fewer players. Definitely better with 10 or less.
I've never agreed with Sam so much before. You tell them Sam!
I think the worst game I ever played has to be Dirty Minds. It's "novelty" wore off in like 15 minutes, and the game can take an hour or more. Fluxx is another contender, I hate it beyond belief
i dont have a problem with you, I have a problem with your taste. Hilarious! so funny!
Every once in a while I come watch one of these OG Dice Tower to 10s just for the nostalgia. This era is when I first got into the hobby and it's mostly ya'lls fault.
I have never lost at Phase 10 - Still Hate It!!! (okay only played twice and yes won both times but refuse to play again).
crz4rg yes. Hated. Stupid game. Especially when you play with people who gang up to play back to back you can't do anything this turn cards on you, not because you're in front, just because they can... Yawn.
The only times I played phase 10, I got about half way through and tried to figure out how to get out of playing the rest of the game... and I was winning!
Alright, let me pause at number 4 for a while just to say this: This has to be one of the funniest Top 10s you guys have put out. I laughed out loud multiple times. And there's still about half an hour to go through.
I hate Monopoly with a passion. It's so random that there's almost no thought in playing it. I hate Talisman for the same reason. I'm utterly perplexed that so many people like that game.
+Harry BuddhaPalm
There is no thought to it; the only people who claim there's strategy to it are people who think scrabble is deep and complex. (but wouldn't touch something as simple as Risk with a 10' pole because it's "too complex")
+Harry BuddhaPalm My main problem with Monopoly is that it only ends when people get fed up. Once somebody takes the lead, "abandon all hope" might as well boom at that moment.
Another problem is that because of that game's popularity, THAT is what people think when they hear 'board games', hence their unwillingness to try anything new.
+El Rodrigo Yaaaaaay capitalism
+Harry BuddhaPalm Monopoly is a good game. If you think it's random, you should play against a good player. Chances are, he'll win.
It's not random, because you know the chances of the die roles and after a couple of games, you know the cards in the deck.
Yes, you can get screwed over, but it can happen in a lot of games. I've had games of Carcassonne, a good game, where I had the misfortune of placing my meeples in cities which I never drew the ending tiles for. I could never close my city and my meeples were stuck. Tell me how that's different.
The thing is, monopoly is a game you can play incorrectly. You have to constantly be engaged in trades and looking ahead. If you play it as a simple roll and move game, you'll have a bad time.
You have to play it where you aren't afraid to spend your money. Spending 3/4 of your money to get 1 good monopoly and nothing else might be the best thing to do. Try to influence other trades. Convincing players of trades you think is fair.
Plus, be heartless. Don't do things like giving players money to stay in the game. Don't play with the houserule to put money for free parking. It only drags out the game.
I agree, the game is old and pretty bad because it doesn't provide you with this knowledge. It never pushes you to play this way. Modern games are a lot better in making an exciting game by itself. Monopoly needs player who play correctly for the game to work.
romanphoenix999 Yaaaaaaaaaay capitalism
Good job with a topic that could have gone off the rails. Even when I had different opinions, I liked hearing everyone's reasoning. Good criteria of requiring at least 100 ratings too.
Completely agree about Aye, Dark Overlord!!!
I had a similar experience with werewolf (and Salem). We played with three people in werewolf (which turns out that game is NOT a three player game though they advertise it as such) and in approximately 10 seconds after opening our eyes we deduce who the werewolf was and...game over. Salem, turns out, it doesn't matter HOW many people you play with, you can get lucky and find the witch cards right away. We played a game with 6 people (might have been 5 - whichever is the max # before a second witch card is used) and, call us lucky as Hell, but just about every game ended with someone finding the witch card in a matter of minutes.
Cards Against Humanity. This is easily the dumbest game I have ever played. It was fun for about 5 minutes the first time I played it and now I just cringe when someone brings that stupid black box over. I am by no means a prude, and this game doesn't offend me, It just ISN'T FUNNY.
Adam Schrader Eeeh opinion
I agree. Scatalogical humor gets old quickly, particularly when it's done without subtlety rather than using innuendo/double entendre.
I actually agree man ! It was funny the first time I played it, but it gets too stupid too fast and there are much better games out there.
I suppose it depends on who you're playing with. I've never played a game of Cards Against Humanity with my friends that wasn't hilarious, and we are definitely not into scatological humour.
Agreed
“Those people sadden me, every single one of them.” Hahaha! I love the dead pan delivery.