One time I actually had a dream I had a small gorgonops as a guard dog. He seemed to love me but literally anybody who wasn’t me he would try to aggressively kill any chance he got 🗿
🍻😎 Glad to help out man! You've been a friend to the channel way back when I was a nobody! ....like six months ago...👀 So this is the least I could do! I hope we can do more work together in the future!
Thanks for the breakdown Keenan. I've only heard *Paleo Analysis* mention your work, it's fun to hear you describe it too. ❤️ Your world is so fascinating! 😁 P.S. Y'all have such magnificent beards! 😎👍
@@apexnext nobody has actually seen my beard since 2019... I might have shaved it off, or I might look like Chewbacca at this point... Or anything in between... 👀
@@PaleoAnalysis I have a very interesting question What if Pterosaurs never died out in the KPG mass extinction event what if they somehow survived the extinction while dinosaurs and marine reptiles did not what would our world be like if pterosaurs roamed the Cenozoic era?
As a book writer I find speculative biology a fascinating concept. I'd love to see a domestication topic from every period, just like your Complete History of the Earth Series.
Definitely has a ring to it, doesn't it. It could be all kinds of domesticated animal as well, not just pets - what would make a good riding/ pack animal, what would just be good eating, the possibilities are endless.
Part of me is super happy to have discovered this channel as early as I did, and part of me is annoyed because now I have to wait for each new video to come out, instead of being able to binge-watch years and years worth of content already made XD Daggummit sir, why you gotta make such consistently great videos?
@@elliewallace6370 thanks for giving Steve (Paleo Analysis) this amazing idea! 😁👍 One of his best videos ever. ❤️❤️ It's really cool that artists can almost inspire each other. I am not a writer myself, yet as the video went on I couldn't help but think _I bet Ellie is getting tons of ideas for pets!_ I could see a protagonist/antagonist finding a way to train the *venom* one, dun dun dunnnnn. 😎
Another factor in domestication is if the stem mammal lives in packs. That's what made the wolf so easy to domesticate. An interesting time in Earth's history for an alternative evolution is the Paleocene Eocene Thermal Maximum. What would evolve in those mighty Antarctic forests of Nothofagus and Auracaria (spelling)? Another excellent video!
I was about to mention this. Wolfs are pack animals and work as groups, team work. Part of the domestication is making them see us as part of the pack. We have also domesticated cats but... good luck hunting with one. 😁
They don't necessarily have to be pack animals (hence felines), but the reason we normally domesticate mammals is that parental care of the young is crucial for allowing us to bond with them. If we start by hand-raising babies of whatever species we're using, then they'll treat us like they'd treat their mother if they're naturally from a species where mothers take active care of their offspring in the first place. And most of the time, we can expand on that tendency until the newly domesticated species simply continues loving us throughout its lifetime, from a basis of loving us during its infancy. But species which aren't raised with parental care have a much more difficult time bonding closely enough for domestication with us. We've quasi-domesticated some types of birds, but those also do parental care, even if not by feeding them with milk. We can live with snakes and turtles, but they don't precisely love us. A snake is likely to think we're warm and nice to hang from, like a sun-heated tree, and a turtle is likely to think that we're the thing that brings the food. But that's pretty much as far as either kind of reptile goes in the direction of love. Even when we keep them as pets, we don't domesticate them per se... we just pop them into tanks the way they are and accept that they'll behave naturally. It's just that small turtles or non-venomous snakes of a reasonable size are manageable even without domestication, so we get away with it.
@Paleo Analysis It's just so good, dougal Dixon itself hates this book and want it forgotten given how unscientific are the deformed abominations described there. So, it's a good video about how NOT to do speculative biology. You have for example: - Human civilizations making infertile round tumors with giant yellow eyes who communicate through eyelashes to work as slaves fixing spaceships, instead of using probes or humans in spacesuits, absolutely chad move. - You have Tundra Dwellers, who are nothing more than giant obese disgusting humanoids with wrinkles and who shouldn't be able to walk given square/cubic law having their blood sucked by smaller black man parasites. - You have Desert Dwellers, who are radically gender dysmorphics, with men being black hairy man with ugly mustaches and women being melted small blobs deaf and blind who communicate by telephaty (something that there is no base in science). It wouldn't work given that humans are mammals, and this kind of females would not be able to give birth to their male youngs, but who cares? It is just so much material!
Good video, just one point to add is that one way Dictodonts could be domesticated for a service similar to many terriers is for their digging. As many species were known for their borrowing ability and while they wouldn’t be good in the hunting department. If they could bred to say seek out unground sources of water in a desert environment or plant roots that are hard to get at. That could be almost as useful to a hunter gather depending on the circumstances and is something I’m using in my own fantasy book
@@stefanostokatlidis4861 true it depends on intelligence level. Carnivores are generally more intelligent than their prey but it’s not a completely set rule such as the case for pigs and elephants. I don’t know of any studies that have gone into proto mammal intelligence and ultimately in a work of fiction the rules can be bent slightly so long as some realism is kept. Pigs have been trained to dig up truffles and rats have been trained to find land minds. So in a fantasy universe where a small dictodont is given terrier level intelligence then they could be trained to dig stuff up if not by hunter gathers then by other groups later down the line
@@stephenlamb4212 also, it depends on why they dig. Do they dig to find food or do they dig for shelter? Rabbits dig only for shelter, and they are going to start digging when they are left alone for some time. Pigs dig only to get food, so they are easier to train for this. I think that those ancient mammals were digging for shelter.
There are several people who keep reptiles in the classical “we share workload and food” dynamic. There’s a fella who runs a pest control business with a medium sized monitor lizard.
A question I have always thought about is 'what if Trilobites survived to the modern day?' I think something like it could be good for a video, or maybe part of a larger video looking at various organisms from the oceans of the time and how their survival could have created very different ecosystems in the modern day.
Cool! How about a smaller permian stem mammal that could hang around us acting disinterested or curious and help get rid of small pests plaguing our grain supplies?
I had a really weird dream involving two Spinosaurus -- one adult, and one juvenile. It was about how they were extant until the mid 1900's when they were ultimately all hunted by humans. Lots of weird details I'm leaving out, but yeah haha. The fishing buddy idea sounds much more pleasant :)
My 9 year old loved this video, he likes the Permian period. He was wondering what fish we'd eat if we existed in the Devonian or what bugs we'd eat if we lived in the carboniferous. He really likes this channel.
This channel is truly refreshing, actually going out of his way to look at our opinions and questions and matching it with very entertainment and educational info. Also what other channel makes new series that are actually good.
I'm a farmer / Rancher and this video kind of makes me wonder what other animals from various time periods Would wind up in similar rolls to animals we have now, if you're at the same time period As was discussed in this video I can imagine quite a few animals that would not have an equivalent, a few examples of roles would be like how goats were domesticated primarily for milk production, sheep were domesticated than selectively bred to have wool, (unless I remember wrong they mostly had long hair originally) pigs were primarily domesticated for meat, and cattle horses and donkeys were primarily domesticated for labor and fertilizer, with cattle finding a few other uses later
Don't forget to take their diet into the equation: pigs, chickens and dogs are great at consuming human food scraps and other waste. Goats and sheep great at feeding of the coarsest of vegetation, and cattle snd horses feed on grass where crops don't grow. Then there's cats who came to domesticated themselves from catching the many rodents attracted to crop storages.
@@DinosaurianDude yep, I completely forgot about cats and chickens for some reason, chickens in particular are good for processing both waste food and garden waste into fertilizer and into food in the form of meat and eggs, they can also scavenge for alot of there diet
I do find speculative biology quite interesting. If you do more videos on the topic, I would love to see a video on 'If the Triassic Jurassic Extinction never happened', and see the Mesozoic be an age of crocodiles instead of dinosaurs, obviously sharing the world with giant sauropods, which would be the only dinosaur group to get to large sizes, and dicynodonts.
As someone dabbling with their own fantasy-story-but-with-elements-of-speculative-evolution project, this video was right up my alley and I am super glad you decided to make it! I also would love to see similar content from you in the future. I wish Ellie Wallace the best of luck with their book, the concept for the setting sounds fascinating and, should it get finished, I would love to give it a read.
Thanks so much, I'd love to send you a copy once it's done (or writing buddy maybe if we're doing similar projects - feel free to give me a message via my website (in the video description) if you're interested.) 🙂
@@elliewallace6370 I can only apologise for the belated reply, I am very shy and I was very much not expecting a reply from the author herself! I must admit, my own story is only in a very rough concept state at the moment - a few maps, some sketches, a rough plot outline and a whole lot of worldbuilding ideas just waiting for the chance to be properly written down. I'm in the process of moving house so there's not been a whole lot of time to do much with it. But I very much appreciate your offer and will have to take you up on it, thank you! I shall have to get in better contact once I'm done hiding under my duvet. 👍If nothing else, it'll be lovely to share thoughts and get those creative juices flowing!
I first heard of Keenan while watching a speculative evolution video by Dr Polaris. Now he pops up again, this time giving Steve help with a brilliant video. That's one of the things I love about TH-cam - the community that can grow around subject matter like this. Oh, and a massive thank you to Ellie for kicking this into motion
I’m always happy to consume more speculative evolution content! I’ve been watching Keenan’s Channel since he had like four videos out and I would love to see more collaborations with you two!
This is great! I love it. I am a Permo-Triassic fangirl. I wish more people understood the importance of this period in Earth history. I love the Permian animals also, and find them more interesting than the late Mesozoic animals people obsess over.
First of all, OMG your friend is a fantasy dwarf that is a fantasy author!!! But seriously, this is one of the best videos I've ever seen on this kind of topic; the only thing you missed was the need for the tiny gorgonopsid to have a heirarchical social structure - ie the difference between horses and donkeys. Still, however, FANTASTIC!!!
I'm working on a similar Sci-Fi novel as the one mentioned at the beginning! Super excited for this topic, and if the novelist ends up publishing their work, please let us know!
Obviously the answer is the Sniffer 🙃 But, in all seriousness, this is a super cool video! I absolutely love speculative biology (and Kaimere), too. I don’t have many ideas for other videos, but honestly, just looking at other time periods and asking the same question - what would people domesticate - would be fun!
Biggest issue is the reason humans and wolfs got together in the first place (it's unsure who domesticated who) is the super similar social stracture, human and wolf familys have super similar social stracture, we got together because wolfs can easily fit as human kids and humans be wolf parents, without that social structure I don't think anything will happen
But seeing as there's evidence to suggest what type of social behavior Therocephalians had, there's really no way of saying one way or another if they would fit that aspect. However, in the absence of concrete evidence I would propose the circumstantial evidence that the Therocephalians would hypothetically be the most likely carnivores to exhibit behavior akin to canine social groups because that type of behavior is more commonly shown in smaller carnivores because they can gain the most benefit from living together in both hunting and protection, without having to worry about feeding the mouths of multiple large individuals. In the end, it would really depend on how much mammal like behavior they show compared to reptilian behavior. Which we can obviously only guess at. So best to just enjoy the hypothetical ride.
@@PaleoAnalysis indeed social behaviour doesn't fossilize well, though I wouldn't use size to determine likelihood of social behaviour, felines are all solitary hunters except lions who are one of the largest members of the family, and while wolfs have super complex family stracture, other canines have vastly different social structures, from foxes, to jakels, African wild dogs, etc. Plus you might have animals with social structure of crows, where they are extremely social as juveniles but stick to breeding pairs as adults. Would be interesting to see a video talking about fossil support for specific social behaviours and stractures, I'm extremely interested in the latest developments regarding the non avian dinosaurs and how the highly complex mating rituals the avian dinosaurs show today might been shared with their non avian relatives, something about a T. Rex doing a mating dance like the bird of paradise just amuse me to no end
@@PaleoAnalysis Agreed - also from what I've seen from my reptile research some reptiles do exhibit social behaviour, its rare and rather basic at times but its there (monkeytail skinks for example shouldn't be kept alone because they pine when they don't have a group to interact with), so I don't think social behaviour among stem mammals is such a huge stretch, particularly pack behaviour in medium sized carnivores.
I love your channel, it is so hard to find information about non-dinosaur animals that isn't couched in a lot of heavy scientific jargon. Thank you. I want to give a suggestion, a video on Macrauchenia, because it is so weird and awesome.
I love how spec evo slowly makes its way into the mainstream fiction niche. As a big spec evo fan, artist and aspiring author myself, would also really enjoy more spec evo content from you.
When I was a kid, I read books by Robert Faraday that involved time travel for the two teenage boy protagonists. The first one involved their trying to take this 'dinosaur' back to his home. (The traveling sideshow was owned by this guy who had the time traveling device, yadda yadda, and he brought back specimens like this to display in the menagerie.) From (dim) memory, the creature was a Cygnognathus (+/- some spelling). Cyg seemed to fill the spot you're addressing here and your video just catapulted me back to grade school where I was reading these with a flashlight under the blanket. So thanks for that. FYI, they didn't go back nearly far enough in time to return Cyg... but he did defeat the totem wolf of the tribe they were dealing with and was adopted as the 'mascot'? So he was more or less re-homed.
I feel like mentioning one of my worldbuilding endeavours of a ring world seeded with fauna from the Paleozoic It’s been sitting around with no progress for a month from how ambitious it is I do have a timeline of events like the construction of the ring to the first seeding to the final harvest of paleofauna from the late Triassic, and the moment where a probe made by far future humanity Sorry if that was structured badly (punctuation never heard of her :3)
Ellie, get ye writing!! Because I want to read it. And KEENAN!! I'm pretty sure I found Keenan Taylor's channel through this one originally and I have been smitten with spec-evo ever since. Love to see the crossover! He inspired me to noodle around with synapsids, myself, actually. (And... Jurassic and Eocene fauna...) Aaaaa that transition into the crossover was stunningly smooth! Just... suddenly Keenan Art. Beautiful!
Awesome video! I personally want to add something that could also be of great importance to domestication hypotheticals and that is social behavior. One of the reasons humans and dogs got along so well is because we're both social animals who need the company of others for survival. We naturally found kinship with wolves who would play, hunt, and organize themselves into a hierarchy like we did. And while evidence for social behavior in extinct animals is very hard to determine, I would think it still important to consider when imagining worlds where humans domesticate long dead creatures from another time.
This was a fantastic and interesting adventure you took us on. It was great to speculate on things and have fun. Thanks for changing up the content this time and will be nice to go along on another well thought out adventure again in the future too. Well done sir. Be blessed.
I'm terrible at speculative biology/evolution but I came up with so many speculative evolution stories I wanted to write. One was imagined as an unoficial prequel to Dinotopia. A mysterious event was making alimals from the past go unextinct on the island creating a place where every period of hystory was existing side by side. The homanids on the island found a symbiosis with the dinosaurs and taught dinosaur children allong side their own. The species all evolved together and created a mixed species city run by giants and maintained by people similar to humans.
Can't get enough of speculative biology content. I don't think the particular idea I've been looking for is exactly your channel's wheelhouse, (and probably gets into some touchy subject matter besides) but something that's interested me for a while is what human history would look like if different human species that once existed in our world persisted and continued to exist alongside homo sapiens.
Thank you for doing this video. And, yes, please make more videos like this. I love Speculative Evolution (it's been a hobby of mine since I was a kid dreaming up Dino civilizations)! :)
I had this idea about a sitcom set in a distant future were nearly all extinct lifeforms have been recreated and the main characters were resurrected early hominids. One of the characters had a Thrinaxodon pet that is basically like mixing the worst characteristics of a beardie, a tortoise, a lap dog and a cat.
Any speculative evolution video is an instant click from me! I like think about what earths biodiversity would be like if certain extinctions never happened like the great dying or the Cambrian crash.
Hey- LOVE that you took a fa request and mad a whole video out of it. We both know however that without pack dynamics, that no matter the animal size we ain't domesticating it. I also know you are doing your best to fulfill unreasonable requirements, and don't blame you. 10/10 video. Her novel is silly
Yay! I was going for therapsids! Forgot about the venom thing though. That was rather fun. “Paleo what if” sounds interesting. My speculative ‘what if’ is in thinking about what would happen if the evolution of directional movement didn’t become predatory but utilised the chloroplast factories in a more aggressive way to become mobile creatures rather than, or as well as, plants. Imagine the light catching structures!
I found you due to the various history videos I'll watch from time to time and Curious Archive. You go into speculative history and you won't ever loose me as a subscriber.
Thus reminds me of the art I saw of the domesticated "fancy raptor" designed with over the top plumage that blended aspects of overly fluffy dogs and overly plumed roosters.
This video has been haunting my recommended feed for at least a month. I just found your channel with your History of Earth series (and I love it), and I much appreciate your channelling of Clint through this video. However... I blame you for my brain's current obsession with the word "temnospondyl" and making it into my current ear worm (as well as a horror version of Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairies). PS- Between you and Clint specifying what is and is not a dinosaur I've learned that Dimetrodon is my favourite prehistoric mammal.
I did think about something similar not so long ago. Mostly it was a Doctor Who story where one companion saved a Lystrosaurus from the Permian extinction by accident. The lystrosaurus ended up staying in the TARDIS and becoming their pet. All because I saw an illustration of a Lystrosaurus once and thought 'this is friend shaped'.
I'd rather suggest that Dicynodont would be a great candidate for live stock animals. Considering the fact that they were numerous, lived everywhere and survived the PT, probably we could raise them everywhere...
Bigger ones could even work as great burden animals to help with farming work too! Maybe even some could be selectively bred to fill the role of a horse.
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One time I actually had a dream I had a small gorgonops as a guard dog. He seemed to love me but literally anybody who wasn’t me he would try to aggressively kill any chance he got 🗿
My dog might be 99% Gorgonops
how the first human to tame a wolf felt
@@DrepaChorusTCG 11/13 comment
Hell ya lol . Gorgonopsid stories rule !
Seems like a very analysable dream somehow.
…though…like…in the psychological sense. You won’t find “gorgonops” on a dream symbolism website.
Thanks for the shoutout! Definitely appreciate it, and was stoked to work on this with you. Cheers!
🍻😎 Glad to help out man! You've been a friend to the channel way back when I was a nobody!
....like six months ago...👀
So this is the least I could do! I hope we can do more work together in the future!
Thanks for the breakdown Keenan. I've only heard *Paleo Analysis* mention your work, it's fun to hear you describe it too. ❤️
Your world is so fascinating! 😁
P.S. Y'all have such magnificent beards! 😎👍
@@apexnext nobody has actually seen my beard since 2019... I might have shaved it off, or I might look like Chewbacca at this point... Or anything in between... 👀
Ur ig is dope
@@PaleoAnalysis I have a very interesting question
What if Pterosaurs never died out in the KPG mass extinction event what if they somehow survived the extinction while dinosaurs and marine reptiles did not what would our world be like if pterosaurs roamed the Cenozoic era?
As a book writer I find speculative biology a fascinating concept. I'd love to see a domestication topic from every period, just like your Complete History of the Earth Series.
Seconded! That would be a super fun sequel series.
I third this so hard
Can't wait to see which Cambrian fauna would make the best house pet.
Or Devonian even.
Definitely has a ring to it, doesn't it. It could be all kinds of domesticated animal as well, not just pets - what would make a good riding/ pack animal, what would just be good eating, the possibilities are endless.
The crossover between this channel and clints reptiles was something I wasnt aware that I needed to see it.
Id love it if it happened at some point
Fun fact: he and I are actually subscribed to each other so hopefully he sees this and that can become reality!
Part of me is super happy to have discovered this channel as early as I did, and part of me is annoyed because now I have to wait for each new video to come out, instead of being able to binge-watch years and years worth of content already made XD
Daggummit sir, why you gotta make such consistently great videos?
Same! I am used to binging channels too. 😁
How about a speculative evolution project, where the permian-triassic extinction never happened. That would be interesting I think
I've been a fan for awhile but then you made that Clint reference I knew you are truly a man of good taste
Agreed, I couldn't believe it when Clint showed up, one of my favourite channels!
I'd be super down for videos about speculative biology. It always impresses me to see what people can come up with.
So cool! Ellie, if you're out there, I hope you share your book/get it published someday! It sounds fascinating!
I agree!!
Aw, thanks so much - it's still in the drafting stage at the moment, but I'll try and get it finished asap 🙂
@@elliewallace6370 Can't wait! 😁
@@elliewallace6370 it would be great to know where to find a book when it’s finished. Good luck with it🦾
@@elliewallace6370 thanks for giving Steve (Paleo Analysis) this amazing idea! 😁👍
One of his best videos ever. ❤️❤️
It's really cool that artists can almost inspire each other. I am not a writer myself, yet as the video went on I couldn't help but think _I bet Ellie is getting tons of ideas for pets!_
I could see a protagonist/antagonist finding a way to train the *venom* one, dun dun dunnnnn. 😎
Another factor in domestication is if the stem mammal lives in packs.
That's what made the wolf so easy to domesticate.
An interesting time in Earth's history for an alternative evolution is the Paleocene Eocene Thermal Maximum.
What would evolve in those mighty Antarctic forests of Nothofagus and Auracaria (spelling)?
Another excellent video!
I was about to mention this. Wolfs are pack animals and work as groups, team work. Part of the domestication is making them see us as part of the pack. We have also domesticated cats but... good luck hunting with one. 😁
@@MaaZeus Or did they domesticate us?
But agreed, I was about to write the exact same thing as well.
Oops - I just made the same comment. I tried to check if anybody beat me to it. I guess I didn't look closely enough.
They don't necessarily have to be pack animals (hence felines), but the reason we normally domesticate mammals is that parental care of the young is crucial for allowing us to bond with them. If we start by hand-raising babies of whatever species we're using, then they'll treat us like they'd treat their mother if they're naturally from a species where mothers take active care of their offspring in the first place. And most of the time, we can expand on that tendency until the newly domesticated species simply continues loving us throughout its lifetime, from a basis of loving us during its infancy.
But species which aren't raised with parental care have a much more difficult time bonding closely enough for domestication with us. We've quasi-domesticated some types of birds, but those also do parental care, even if not by feeding them with milk. We can live with snakes and turtles, but they don't precisely love us. A snake is likely to think we're warm and nice to hang from, like a sun-heated tree, and a turtle is likely to think that we're the thing that brings the food. But that's pretty much as far as either kind of reptile goes in the direction of love. Even when we keep them as pets, we don't domesticate them per se... we just pop them into tanks the way they are and accept that they'll behave naturally. It's just that small turtles or non-venomous snakes of a reasonable size are manageable even without domestication, so we get away with it.
was NOT expecting a Clint Laidlaw reference, so that was neat
Fun fact: He and I are actually subbed to each other so I hope he sees this!
If you gonna do a series about Speculative Biology, you MUST talk about Man after Man.
...Oof... 👀
@Paleo Analysis It's just so good, dougal Dixon itself hates this book and want it forgotten given how unscientific are the deformed abominations described there.
So, it's a good video about how NOT to do speculative biology.
You have for example:
- Human civilizations making infertile round tumors with giant yellow eyes who communicate through eyelashes to work as slaves fixing spaceships, instead of using probes or humans in spacesuits, absolutely chad move.
- You have Tundra Dwellers, who are nothing more than giant obese disgusting humanoids with wrinkles and who shouldn't be able to walk given square/cubic law having their blood sucked by smaller black man parasites.
- You have Desert Dwellers, who are radically gender dysmorphics, with men being black hairy man with ugly mustaches and women being melted small blobs deaf and blind who communicate by telephaty (something that there is no base in science). It wouldn't work given that humans are mammals, and this kind of females would not be able to give birth to their male youngs, but who cares?
It is just so much material!
Good video, just one point to add is that one way Dictodonts could be domesticated for a service similar to many terriers is for their digging. As many species were known for their borrowing ability and while they wouldn’t be good in the hunting department. If they could bred to say seek out unground sources of water in a desert environment or plant roots that are hard to get at. That could be almost as useful to a hunter gather depending on the circumstances and is something I’m using in my own fantasy book
That's a great idea Stephen
@@DLVeggdoggy4124 thank you glad you think so
Can you use a rabbit for digging? Probably not. So probably not even this.
@@stefanostokatlidis4861 true it depends on intelligence level. Carnivores are generally more intelligent than their prey but it’s not a completely set rule such as the case for pigs and elephants. I don’t know of any studies that have gone into proto mammal intelligence and ultimately in a work of fiction the rules can be bent slightly so long as some realism is kept. Pigs have been trained to dig up truffles and rats have been trained to find land minds. So in a fantasy universe where a small dictodont is given terrier level intelligence then they could be trained to dig stuff up if not by hunter gathers then by other groups later down the line
@@stephenlamb4212 also, it depends on why they dig. Do they dig to find food or do they dig for shelter? Rabbits dig only for shelter, and they are going to start digging when they are left alone for some time. Pigs dig only to get food, so they are easier to train for this. I think that those ancient mammals were digging for shelter.
There are several people who keep reptiles in the classical “we share workload and food” dynamic.
There’s a fella who runs a pest control business with a medium sized monitor lizard.
A question I have always thought about is 'what if Trilobites survived to the modern day?' I think something like it could be good for a video, or maybe part of a larger video looking at various organisms from the oceans of the time and how their survival could have created very different ecosystems in the modern day.
They would be delicious...
I imagine a trilobite would taste like a horseshoe crab.
Cool! How about a smaller permian stem mammal that could hang around us acting disinterested or curious and help get rid of small pests plaguing our grain supplies?
That brings up another question, what plants would we be able to eat and domesticate?
@@augustusvillanueva2008 awesome question
So aka cat analogues
Instead of a synapsid, I actually had a dream last night about having a pet Spinosaurus as a fishing buddy.
I had a really weird dream involving two Spinosaurus -- one adult, and one juvenile. It was about how they were extant until the mid 1900's when they were ultimately all hunted by humans. Lots of weird details I'm leaving out, but yeah haha. The fishing buddy idea sounds much more pleasant :)
@@michaelcamp2870 dude write that down as a short story or something, I'd read that
@@someguycalledCh0wdah Okay, I’ll do that! 🤣 I didn’t expect this comment to get any attention
@@michaelcamp2870 you had a cool idea and it's my job, as somebody who is not a dick, to let you know that it was a cool idea
@@michaelcamp2870 and please let it have a happy ending this time…
#SpinyDidNothingWrong
#SpinyIsAGoodBoy
My 9 year old loved this video, he likes the Permian period. He was wondering what fish we'd eat if we existed in the Devonian or what bugs we'd eat if we lived in the carboniferous. He really likes this channel.
Now I'm thinking of the giant "pill bug" from _The Emperor's New Groove_ (a crustacean, but still, it BIG).
We would be happy all the time if we were in the Carboniferous.
Adorable family
Great ideas! Though there were also smaller gorgonopsids, like Gorgonops and Dinogorgon, and even tiny gorgonopsids like Nochnitsa.
This channel is truly refreshing, actually going out of his way to look at our opinions and questions and matching it with very entertainment and educational info. Also what other channel makes new series that are actually good.
I love your videos and i think you might be my favorite youtuber at this point
I'm a farmer / Rancher and this video kind of makes me wonder what other animals from various time periods Would wind up in similar rolls to animals we have now, if you're at the same time period As was discussed in this video I can imagine quite a few animals that would not have an equivalent, a few examples of roles would be like how goats were domesticated primarily for milk production, sheep were domesticated than selectively bred to have wool, (unless I remember wrong they mostly had long hair originally) pigs were primarily domesticated for meat, and cattle horses and donkeys were primarily domesticated for labor and fertilizer, with cattle finding a few other uses later
Don't forget to take their diet into the equation: pigs, chickens and dogs are great at consuming human food scraps and other waste. Goats and sheep great at feeding of the coarsest of vegetation, and cattle snd horses feed on grass where crops don't grow. Then there's cats who came to domesticated themselves from catching the many rodents attracted to crop storages.
@@DinosaurianDude yep, I completely forgot about cats and chickens for some reason, chickens in particular are good for processing both waste food and garden waste into fertilizer and into food in the form of meat and eggs, they can also scavenge for alot of there diet
I do find speculative biology quite interesting. If you do more videos on the topic, I would love to see a video on 'If the Triassic Jurassic Extinction never happened', and see the Mesozoic be an age of crocodiles instead of dinosaurs, obviously sharing the world with giant sauropods, which would be the only dinosaur group to get to large sizes, and dicynodonts.
As someone dabbling with their own fantasy-story-but-with-elements-of-speculative-evolution project, this video was right up my alley and I am super glad you decided to make it! I also would love to see similar content from you in the future.
I wish Ellie Wallace the best of luck with their book, the concept for the setting sounds fascinating and, should it get finished, I would love to give it a read.
Thanks so much, I'd love to send you a copy once it's done (or writing buddy maybe if we're doing similar projects - feel free to give me a message via my website (in the video description) if you're interested.) 🙂
@@elliewallace6370 I can only apologise for the belated reply, I am very shy and I was very much not expecting a reply from the author herself!
I must admit, my own story is only in a very rough concept state at the moment - a few maps, some sketches, a rough plot outline and a whole lot of worldbuilding ideas just waiting for the chance to be properly written down. I'm in the process of moving house so there's not been a whole lot of time to do much with it.
But I very much appreciate your offer and will have to take you up on it, thank you! I shall have to get in better contact once I'm done hiding under my duvet. 👍If nothing else, it'll be lovely to share thoughts and get those creative juices flowing!
@@mutterboutasaurus235 that's great, I'll look forward to hearing from you when you're ready :-)
I first heard of Keenan while watching a speculative evolution video by Dr Polaris.
Now he pops up again, this time giving Steve help with a brilliant video.
That's one of the things I love about TH-cam - the community that can grow around subject matter like this.
Oh, and a massive thank you to Ellie for kicking this into motion
"their bloodline abruptly ended with them".
I actually did laugh out loud at that.
"Because their bloodlines probably abruptly ended with them." I'm just thinking of Siegfried and Roy for some reason.
This video was actually really informative 💀 Definitely one of the best
I’m always happy to consume more speculative evolution content! I’ve been watching Keenan’s Channel since he had like four videos out and I would love to see more collaborations with you two!
This video definitely deserves more attention, would love to see a Paleo What If series
This is great! I love it. I am a Permo-Triassic fangirl. I wish more people understood the importance of this period in Earth history. I love the Permian animals also, and find them more interesting than the late Mesozoic animals people obsess over.
First of all, OMG your friend is a fantasy dwarf that is a fantasy author!!! But seriously, this is one of the best videos I've ever seen on this kind of topic; the only thing you missed was the need for the tiny gorgonopsid to have a heirarchical social structure - ie the difference between horses and donkeys. Still, however, FANTASTIC!!!
I'm working on a similar Sci-Fi novel as the one mentioned at the beginning! Super excited for this topic, and if the novelist ends up publishing their work, please let us know!
Obviously the answer is the Sniffer 🙃
But, in all seriousness, this is a super cool video! I absolutely love speculative biology (and Kaimere), too. I don’t have many ideas for other videos, but honestly, just looking at other time periods and asking the same question - what would people domesticate - would be fun!
i hope you do more speculative biology content, it's really fun
Biggest issue is the reason humans and wolfs got together in the first place (it's unsure who domesticated who) is the super similar social stracture, human and wolf familys have super similar social stracture, we got together because wolfs can easily fit as human kids and humans be wolf parents, without that social structure I don't think anything will happen
But seeing as there's evidence to suggest what type of social behavior Therocephalians had, there's really no way of saying one way or another if they would fit that aspect.
However, in the absence of concrete evidence I would propose the circumstantial evidence that the Therocephalians would hypothetically be the most likely carnivores to exhibit behavior akin to canine social groups because that type of behavior is more commonly shown in smaller carnivores because they can gain the most benefit from living together in both hunting and protection, without having to worry about feeding the mouths of multiple large individuals.
In the end, it would really depend on how much mammal like behavior they show compared to reptilian behavior. Which we can obviously only guess at. So best to just enjoy the hypothetical ride.
@@PaleoAnalysis indeed social behaviour doesn't fossilize well, though I wouldn't use size to determine likelihood of social behaviour, felines are all solitary hunters except lions who are one of the largest members of the family, and while wolfs have super complex family stracture, other canines have vastly different social structures, from foxes, to jakels, African wild dogs, etc.
Plus you might have animals with social structure of crows, where they are extremely social as juveniles but stick to breeding pairs as adults.
Would be interesting to see a video talking about fossil support for specific social behaviours and stractures, I'm extremely interested in the latest developments regarding the non avian dinosaurs and how the highly complex mating rituals the avian dinosaurs show today might been shared with their non avian relatives, something about a T. Rex doing a mating dance like the bird of paradise just amuse me to no end
@@PaleoAnalysis Agreed - also from what I've seen from my reptile research some reptiles do exhibit social behaviour, its rare and rather basic at times but its there (monkeytail skinks for example shouldn't be kept alone because they pine when they don't have a group to interact with), so I don't think social behaviour among stem mammals is such a huge stretch, particularly pack behaviour in medium sized carnivores.
I love your channel, it is so hard to find information about non-dinosaur animals that isn't couched in a lot of heavy scientific jargon. Thank you. I want to give a suggestion, a video on Macrauchenia, because it is so weird and awesome.
If you’re into fantasy, it’d be really cool to think about how various fantasy races (elves, dwarves, etc) could realistically evolve.
I love how spec evo slowly makes its way into the mainstream fiction niche.
As a big spec evo fan, artist and aspiring author myself, would also really enjoy more spec evo content from you.
Lystrosaurus would be a good pet, maybe even be used as livestock since they were so common. The pig of the triassic
I was kind of thinking of them as like sheep but without the wool - still good eating though.
Hey, you should get Ellie Wallace to share updates on her project too! I really like the sound of it.
Thanks so much for the interest, I'll make sure to keep you posted 🙂
When I was a kid, I read books by Robert Faraday that involved time travel for the two teenage boy protagonists. The first one involved their trying to take this 'dinosaur' back to his home. (The traveling sideshow was owned by this guy who had the time traveling device, yadda yadda, and he brought back specimens like this to display in the menagerie.) From (dim) memory, the creature was a Cygnognathus (+/- some spelling). Cyg seemed to fill the spot you're addressing here and your video just catapulted me back to grade school where I was reading these with a flashlight under the blanket. So thanks for that.
FYI, they didn't go back nearly far enough in time to return Cyg... but he did defeat the totem wolf of the tribe they were dealing with and was adopted as the 'mascot'? So he was more or less re-homed.
What a fun episode! Thanks 👏👍🏼🙂
Banger of a video. I love these hypothetical videos! Please do more!
Bless the Analyst
Bless your Helpers
This is why speculative biology is so neat. It lets you explore the underlying mechanisms that actually drive evolution.
Paleo What-If is a great title! really enjoyed this one. Thank you.
What a great video! Thank you and for introducing us to you friends channel.😊
I feel like mentioning one of my worldbuilding endeavours of a ring world seeded with fauna from the Paleozoic
It’s been sitting around with no progress for a month from how ambitious it is I do have a timeline of events like the construction of the ring to the first seeding to the final harvest of paleofauna from the late Triassic, and the moment where a probe made by far future humanity
Sorry if that was structured badly (punctuation never heard of her :3)
Sounds like a fascinating world :-)
@@elliewallace6370 thanks for the compliment
Ellie, get ye writing!! Because I want to read it. And KEENAN!! I'm pretty sure I found Keenan Taylor's channel through this one originally and I have been smitten with spec-evo ever since. Love to see the crossover! He inspired me to noodle around with synapsids, myself, actually. (And... Jurassic and Eocene fauna...)
Aaaaa that transition into the crossover was stunningly smooth! Just... suddenly Keenan Art. Beautiful!
I'm on it!
I would love to know about it when this novel gets published. Sounds great 👍
Thanks very much for the vote of confidence! I'm working on drafting it just now so it may be a while, but I'll get there asap
@@elliewallace6370 I would love to help you and volunteer to read an early draft. If that's something you would consider.
@@scottbruner9987 Definitely!
@@elliewallace6370 I have tried to reply with a way to contact me, but TH-cam won't allow it.
Any ideas?
@@scottbruner9987 Paleo Analysis was kind enough to link to my website in the description, my contact details are on there if you'd like 🙂
Love speculative evolution and hope to see more!
So happy at the love you're getting lately! You definitely deserve it
"NOOOOoooooo! Don't turn me into marketable plushie!"
Awesome video! I personally want to add something that could also be of great importance to domestication hypotheticals and that is social behavior. One of the reasons humans and dogs got along so well is because we're both social animals who need the company of others for survival. We naturally found kinship with wolves who would play, hunt, and organize themselves into a hierarchy like we did. And while evidence for social behavior in extinct animals is very hard to determine, I would think it still important to consider when imagining worlds where humans domesticate long dead creatures from another time.
This was a fantastic and interesting adventure you took us on. It was great to speculate on things and have fun. Thanks for changing up the content this time and will be nice to go along on another well thought out adventure again in the future too. Well done sir. Be blessed.
This field is really important because it lets us build frameworks for what we are yet to discover
as someone who also writing a book with creatures from the Permian period this brings me so my happiness🤩
I'm terrible at speculative biology/evolution but I came up with so many speculative evolution stories I wanted to write. One was imagined as an unoficial prequel to Dinotopia. A mysterious event was making alimals from the past go unextinct on the island creating a place where every period of hystory was existing side by side. The homanids on the island found a symbiosis with the dinosaurs and taught dinosaur children allong side their own. The species all evolved together and created a mixed species city run by giants and maintained by people similar to humans.
You literally had me with the Clint's reptiles reference in the title, I actually thought Clint was breaking out into the juicy paleo stuff lol!
Love the video dude, definitely follow your passion and make more of these! I personally can't wait to see the awesome things you come up with!
This was such a fun speculative investigation! More Please!
very cool to see speculative biology on this channel! here's to hoping you do more
I love this kind of topic, would definitely apriciate more of it.
I loved that "the future is wild" show when I was younger - just had a little flashback 😅
I would love to see more of these speculative outlooks!
Okay this one was neat! I might sub to the patreon just so I can go on a rant about some of the creatures I have made in my worlds. :)
I loved this and hope you do more, I like the art you made to go with your predictions!
Can't get enough of speculative biology content. I don't think the particular idea I've been looking for is exactly your channel's wheelhouse, (and probably gets into some touchy subject matter besides) but something that's interested me for a while is what human history would look like if different human species that once existed in our world persisted and continued to exist alongside homo sapiens.
Thank you for doing this video.
And, yes, please make more videos like this. I love Speculative Evolution (it's been a hobby of mine since I was a kid dreaming up Dino civilizations)! :)
I never know how much I wanted this video
I had this idea about a sitcom set in a distant future were nearly all extinct lifeforms have been recreated and the main characters were resurrected early hominids. One of the characters had a Thrinaxodon pet that is basically like mixing the worst characteristics of a beardie, a tortoise, a lap dog and a cat.
Any speculative evolution video is an instant click from me! I like think about what earths biodiversity would be like if certain extinctions never happened like the great dying or the Cambrian crash.
Hey- LOVE that you took a fa request and mad a whole video out of it. We both know however that without pack dynamics, that no matter the animal size we ain't domesticating it.
I also know you are doing your best to fulfill unreasonable requirements, and don't blame you. 10/10 video.
Her novel is silly
Spec Bio is really cool, one thing that havent seen much is centering on insects or small organisms
Love these type of videos and would love to see more!
We are asking the REAL important questions now
Yeah, I'm a big fan of this kind of video. Keep it up, dude.
I'm writing a book now set when fungus ruled the earth. Your videos are great inspiration!
This was fun! Thank you for sharing this.
Yay! I was going for therapsids! Forgot about the venom thing though. That was rather fun. “Paleo what if” sounds interesting.
My speculative ‘what if’ is in thinking about what would happen if the evolution of directional movement didn’t become predatory but utilised the chloroplast factories in a more aggressive way to become mobile creatures rather than, or as well as, plants. Imagine the light catching structures!
I found you due to the various history videos I'll watch from time to time and Curious Archive. You go into speculative history and you won't ever loose me as a subscriber.
Wolves are SOOOOOOOO beautiful! I love them. I wish I could befriend one.
Thus reminds me of the art I saw of the domesticated "fancy raptor" designed with over the top plumage that blended aspects of overly fluffy dogs and overly plumed roosters.
Awesome video! Much love and thank you.
This video has been haunting my recommended feed for at least a month. I just found your channel with your History of Earth series (and I love it), and I much appreciate your channelling of Clint through this video.
However...
I blame you for my brain's current obsession with the word "temnospondyl" and making it into my current ear worm (as well as a horror version of Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairies).
PS- Between you and Clint specifying what is and is not a dinosaur I've learned that Dimetrodon is my favourite prehistoric mammal.
Omg! Clint’s reptiles shout out! Love it!
Should also have a shout out to curious archives.
Hell yeah, brilliant topic. More please !
excellent video idea, its fun to get lost in the thought of what ifs at times
Love this idea!
Hopefully he does more of these!
I did think about something similar not so long ago.
Mostly it was a Doctor Who story where one companion saved a Lystrosaurus from the Permian extinction by accident. The lystrosaurus ended up staying in the TARDIS and becoming their pet.
All because I saw an illustration of a Lystrosaurus once and thought 'this is friend shaped'.
I'd rather suggest that Dicynodont would be a great candidate for live stock animals. Considering the fact that they were numerous, lived everywhere and survived the PT, probably we could raise them everywhere...
Bigger ones could even work as great burden animals to help with farming work too! Maybe even some could be selectively bred to fill the role of a horse.
More, please! I love spec bio!
This is a wonderful idea! I Hope that you will be able to continue this series.
Loving these random tangent videos.
Great topic! I love thoughtful speculative science. I dislike thoughtless and childish science fiction. This video was really good.
love the clints reptiles reference lol
This episode brought me right back to our childhood. Great video my bro!
You were right. This was a great idea for a video! :)
I would 100% watch speculative biology on your channel, as long as you still keep your paleobiology content :)