Thanks Jared. I realized that most of our friends are still on our old channel so I'm trying to promote the new channel here: th-cam.com/channels/ol7hJyj69pkePYxUVw01rg.html
3/4 @Andre rabe Also "covenant" was added to the text in heb 8 where the context is actually the preisthood not the covenant and the fault was with the people and not the law which is perfect (psalm 19:7; 119) thus the Need to tranfer from earthly to heavenly priesthood and a perfect mediator and sacrifice and no longer ones which only kept Gods wrath at bay because of his promise to Noah being remembered by the sweet savour to the lord (gen 8:20-22). Yes there is a new (renewed) covenant built on better promises not a new law (deut 4:2; 12:32; ez 36-37 its about the law being written on our hearts so we can obey and do them) but there is no such thing as an old covenant as inferred nor does God change, neither his word or covanents which have eternal signs as a mark of his promise to keep them respectively (Edenic (Gen. 2:17-18); Adamic (); Noahic (Gen. 9:1-8); Abrahamic (Gen. 12:1-4; 13:14-17; 15:1-7; 17:1-8); Mosaic (Ex. 19:5; Deut 11:13-21); Land [Joshua] (Deut 30:1-10); Davidic (2 Sam. 7:4-16); and New (Deut. 30:6; Jer. 31:31-34; Ez. 36:26-27; Heb. 8-11). Also (heb 7) "change" is "metathesis" in greek meaning transfered not altered. If we are to say it was inspite of (deut 4:2; 12:32) which would be a sin, then what did it change to? The law of Christ or Love some would object. The issue here would be Deut 13 test and Deut 18 prophecy would both be failed and make Christ a false prophet which none of us believe. The priesthood and authority over the law moved from earthly to heavenly is the context of the passages. Same issue comes with Paul in translation where he uses "the (3588) law (3551)" [Law of God/Moses] and "law (3551)" [mans traditions, nations law, or specific law of God generally (lev 5:17 and numb 15:30-31 as seen in. Rom. 7:23-25; 8:2); and its all changed to "the law" everytime in English translations, changing the context and further muddying Pauls words when we clearly see (as i cited at the beginning) he taught, obeyed, followed, and believed in the Torah. [We also have 208 times the Torah is referenced, for both Jews and gentiles, by all the apostles and in all the 4 Gospels and epistles as a means of instruction in the faith.] Its also present in (ex 34) where "hadabarem* root dabar (1697)-words" was changed to "mitzvah (4687)- commandments" limiting Gods instructions (Torah 8451) to 10 to fit mans doctrine. Theres a tradition of fear that if we do any work of the law we risk losing salvation but thats not scriptural. Theres a condition and context for obedience to Gods law when used lawfully is good (1 tim 1:8). If we do them for our own rightiousnees then yes, we dont have the promise of Christ and fall short deserving the punishment of a second death, but if we do them out of appreciation and reverence as we are told to do because of the grace given for our salvation, then No. We will not lose salvation for our obedience but rather gain blessings. That is scriptural. People use that arguement to not obey selective laws, dietary, feast, days, Sabbath ect. (matt 22 if we come to his wedding feast unclean in faith as gentiles we will hear those terrible words (Mark 7:21-23), but again it's about learning, growing, applying, and obeying each in their own walk as they are guided (acts 15:20-21). But to out right deny obedience profanes and nullifies the law (mark 7:6-10) which can lead to potentially blasphemy of the holy spirit (matt 12:31-32) without repentance leaving no sacrifice for us (heb 10). We are to not force obedience (gal 2:3) but allow growth with correction the same as a child when we are ready (acts 16:5). If u catch that small reference to christ advice (matt 18:3) Seperate note where do you stand on this understanding? To be baptized in the name of the father the spirt and the son (matt 28:19-20) would be "YHWH" in consideration that is the same as revealed to moses which Yeshua [transliterated from hebrew to Greek "Iēsous" to latin "Isvs" to English "Jesus"] ("YHWH" saves or "YHWH"'s salvation) was prophiced to be in the flesh Emmanuel ("YHWH" with us). "*How ever you pronounce YHWH*" besides this we agree about Christ is King (psalm 2:1-12) as Samuel warned His people that He was their King which they wanted to exchange for men against His warning. 1 Sam 8:10-22; Isa 43:15. The law is: The way: ex 18:20; deut 10:12; Josh 22:5; 1 kin 2:3; psa 119:1; prov 6:23; isa 2:3; mal 2:8; mark 12:14; acts 24:14 The truth: psa 43:2-4; 119:142; mal 2:6; rom 2:20; Gal 5:7; jo 8:31-32 Life: job 33:30; psa 36:9; prov 6:23; Rev 22:14 Light: job 24:13; 29:3; psa 36:9; 43:2-4; 119:105; prov 6:3; isa 2:5; 8:20; 51:4; 2 cor 6:14; 1 jo 1:7 Jesus is: the word of God jo 1:1-14 Law acted out jo 14:6 The law is liberty psa 119:44-45; james 1:25; 2:12 Jesus is our liberty gal 5:1 Whats the doctrinal issue today? Prov 4:2
hey does anyone know of some really good places to learn the gospel like andre and francois know it? like theres something that these guys have that ive never heard in other people, help?
From a perspective of non concrete lines for perception of understanding with mans logic I ask this question. "When thrown out of the garden, the story says that God placed an Angel by the entrance with a flaming sword. It also says that the only way back in is trough that flaming sword. Can one believe that the type and shadow of a flaming sword could mean that only through the lake of 🔥fire (which religion should have never given to the devil, Our God is a CONSUMING 🔥 fire) meaning through fires of adversity the overcome who overcomes (Rev 2:17) is refined by the burning away of the wood gay, stubble of mans reasoning?" Elijah in 1Kings repaired the alter, Kaye's the wood(humanity) and the Sacrifice (death of the lamb) in order then the fire fell... Even after that he was on the mountain and experienced a tempestuous wind, an earthquake and then a FIRE. Then after that a still small voice. It seems that adversity through the fire gives way back to his original intent... RELATIONSHIP with Him. Gene Oklahoma U.S.
Those are insightful analogies Gene. It is in the reality of suffering that we learn to forgive... and it is in the act of forgiveness that we again find the peace we are at home in. The Inverted series continues here: th-cam.com/channels/ol7hJyj69pkePYxUVw01rg.htmlplaylists?view_as=subscriber
@andre rabe 1/4 confusion starts with what is taught without testing (1 thes 5:21) and its unseen implications. God doesnt break his own law, he upheld his promises from eden through christ (hen 8-11; Rev.) Hes also upholding his justice/mercy by paying the fine for us. We are not killing Christ he lays his life down willingly for us. This is the mystry Paul spoke on (eph 3:1-13), it wasnt the jews (kingdom of Judah) who were removed for gentiles but the kingdom of Israel who were divorced and scattered into the nation's (gentiles) which God promised he would will remarry (Jer 3:1-5; 31; ez 36-37 [law written on hearts to obey and do, 2 stick prophecy], but (deut 24:1-4) he would break his own law bc they were married to the false gods now. Which gave a means for us to be grafted in (Rom. 11:11-31; Eph 2:11-19). Paul explains this in (rom. 7:2). Most then mistakenly believe we are to sin (1 john 3:4) bc of grace (Rom 6:15) being free from the law in Christ (Gal. 6:2; 1cor 9:21) which we see as follows is in error. "Do we sin because grace abounds? God forbid!!!" (prov 4:2; 28:9; psalm 19:7; and 119:1-176) [and everything else as a whole context cover to cover of the scriptures]. In consideration of: Milk and Meat are different levels of teaching but majority tend to stay on milk well past their need for meat leaving the church in search of substance that they were denied (1 cor 3:1-3; heb 6). We should also define what sin is (Lev 5:17; numb 15:30-31 1 john 3:4) and how to love God. (Ex 20:6; deut 5:10; 1 john 1-5). Which is the purpose of all mankind (eccl 12:13) Because Christ warns the love of many will grow cold (matt 24:12-15) and the Greatest command is to Love God (Deut 6:4-7) and second to love your neighbor (lev 19:9-18) which all the law and prophets teach us how to act it out in our walk (matt 22:34-40) as we are to imitate Christ example (1 John 1:26; 1 cor 11:1) which is fruit of our faith (Gal 5:21-23) [against such there is no law] and evidence we are in Gods love grace and mercy (1 john and James) and without it we are dead in our faith, which Christ also commands us to be careful to obey and do (ex 20 [why teachers where established] Lev 16:16, 32-34; 17:9-10; deut 17:8-13; 18:15-19; 25:2-3; matt 23:1-5, 23 [how teachers were established]) keeping both the letter and spirit of the law. Not removing one jot or tittle (deut 4:2; 12:32; matt 5:18; 24:35-39; luke 16:16-17). Creating good dialogue correction and teaching (2 tim 3:16-17) since Paul also taught the same corrections and advice [what did paul teach? (1 tim 1:8-11): unholy (lev 11:44); profane (lev 21:7); killers of mothers and fathers (ex 20:12); murderers (ex 20:13); immoral (ex 34:15); homosexuals (lev 18:22); kidnappers (deut 24:7); liars (lev 19:11); perjuerers (ex 20:16); and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine (prov 4:2) (*forsake not my law*). What else did Paul believe and do? Believed everything in the Torah (acts 24:14); Always kept the Sabbath (acts 17:2; 18:4); Kept the leviticus 23 feast (acts 20:6, 16); Told us to keep the feast (1 cor 5:7-8); Said we establish the law (romans 3:31); Taught from the torah (acts 28:23); Obeyed the Torah (acts 21:24; romans 7:25); Took delight in the Torah (romans 7:22); Sacrificed at the temple after writting romans and galatians (acts 21:26)] . 😃 👼 To be clear salvation by grace through faith (eph 2:8-9), blessings by the law through obedience. (Deut 11:26; 30:19). It's a paradigm inquiry and correction. We, once we come into faith, are no longer gentiles but citizens of the common wealth of Israel inheriting the promises of Abraham as hisnadopted seed. Which, yes, also includes circumcision as we are commanded to do. The confusion here is we are to circumcised our hearts first, then when we have become knowledged and obedient to our fullest extent and our faith is in such a position to convict us that we are ready, then we make that step. Not by force, but by personal decision and agreement from an elder no differently than Paul did with Timothy (being ready) and Titus (not being ready) which I further clarify near the end.
@andre rabe 4/4 Don't be under [the] law (Paul misused 2 pet 3) When Paul uses "the (3588) law (3551)" he is refering to the whole of God's law. While when he uses just "law (3551 nomos)" its a general statement of a law, whether it be mans tradition, a nations law, or a specific law of God. I would argue that every verse that uses "law" without the Greek article "the" [which wasnt italicized but continuously added to the text for grammical correction which changes the context and authorial intent of Pauls epistles] Paul is refering to a concept built on (lev 5:17 (c.f. 1 john 3:4); numb 15:30-31) which is evidenced in his philosophical explaination found in both (romans 7:23-25 law of sin; law of sin and death 8:2 [see below]) As for Romans Paul's use of law is used 6 different ways. 1) law of God (Romans 3:31; 7:22-25, 8:7) Torah defines what is sin and what is not sin 2) law of sin (Romans 7:23-25) The spirit in us directs us or instructs us towards the law of God. The flesh directs pr instructs us toward the law of sin. At the ressurection, the law of God will finally completely prevail over us and the battle and internal struggle between flesh and spirit will be over for us. The race will have been run and won. However, before that happens, we are in sin and sin leads to death. 3) law of sin and death (Romans 8:2) The instruction of the flesh, or sin, leads us to death, and this is known as the law of sin and death. We were all under the law of sin and death before we enter the faith, yet we did not realize it at the time. Our flesh calls the law of sin freedom, whan it is actually bondage, and it is bondage that leads to death. The instruction of sin from our flesh leads to the instruction from God that demands our death because of sin. We live our lives under the law of sin and death until we have a desire for truth; that desire comes not from the flesh, but from the Spirit. 4) law of the spirit of life (Romans 8:2) The law of the spirit tells us the law of God is the truth Once it is heard. It leads us toward the law of God, and away from the instruction of the flesh. The spirit exposes the flesh and its natural predisposition for sin. Then, it is the moment when the law of the spirit enters into us that we imediately realize we are under the law of sin and death. It is then that we realize we are in prison and bondage to our own sin. We then understand that we are in a hopeless state. Once we realize that we are in prison, we desire a way out. We then look to our Creator for the way out. The spirit or desire for truth and desire for freedom causes us to establish the faith in our Creator and His eternal and authoritative unchanging word. 5)law of faith (Romans 3:27) The law of faith is to conform your way of thinking to the Word of God. Paul refers to this as becoming a new man. In the faith, one adopts the word of God and the authority over their lives. This is contrary to the flesh as your authority, which sees the word of God as bondage. This so not a mental assent, but a transformation of our core beliefs and foundation that directly impacts how we perceive the world and interact with it. In obedience to the law of faith, we see the word of God as freedom and the way to live. It is also once we enter into this faith, and run the race in the faith, that we are granted eternal life through His grace. It is our internal transformation and spirit or desire for his word that leads to salvation from the law of sin and death. This js occuring before we do anything, which also demonstrates that salvation is not a matter of works, but a new creation in us. However, that new creation in us causes us to want to practice rightiousness. 6)law of rightiousness (Romans 9:31) The law of rightiousness is the imstruction tonlive out our faith, it simply means to practice rightiousness. It is the doing of the right ways of our Creator. This is in effect of our faith. Because we believe the Word of God to be the truth and the right way to live, our lives should resemble living righteously. This is in contrast to living in the flesh, which is after our own ways, which are like filthy rags to our creator. Our creators ways are rightious, and the rightiousness we practice is the evidence or fruit of our faith. This rightiousness, or right way to walk out the law of God, has been evidenced in the lives of manybthroughout the ages. The most popular is through Jesus Christ. 7)law of christ (1 Corinthians 9:21) The law of Christ is his intructions, as an example, to follow the law if God in the faith. Our messiah never once spoke his own instruction from his own authority. He simply repeated and practiced the valid interpretation of the eternal unchanging word of God that has assisted sonce the beginning. It is in Jesus that all of these laws are reconciled and understood. Jesus taught us the law of God as truth. He pointed out our sin, teaching us that our son leads to death. He told us that we need to be saved from the law of sin and death. For that to happen, we need to listen to the spirit to enter the faith of the Word of God. Our messiah lived his life in the word of God perfectly. That enabled two things. One, he now serves as the perfect example on how to walk out the Torah or the law of God. Romans 6:14 (does not mention law of God but in context its refering to 2 & 3*) Sin did have dominion over us, now we are no longer under its law. Did Paul mean that we are not under the law of God because we are not under sin? Law of God=sin? Answer: romans 7:7 Is the law sin? May it never be! On the contrary I would not have known sin but by the law. It is by the law of God we know sin. John 3:4 lawlessness Law=torah The law of sin (Romans 7:23-25 is in opposition to... The law of God (Romans 3:31; 7:22-25; 8:7) Gen 2:16 breaking the laws/commandments of God leads to death. Romans 5:12 all sin so death comes to all Romans 6:14 We over come death because we are no longer under the law of sin but under the law of grace through faith. Romans 6:8-9 Death no longer has dominion over christ so if we take upon his death by dying in him and removing the *2-3 away from us we are saved by 5* Improper Interpretation and out of context. "We are no longer under 'the law of God' bc of grace." Romans 8:2 What's the "therefore" therefore? Grace is recieving forgiveness for breaking the law. Being under grace means we are free from the bondage of sin (col 2:14) not free from Gods law. Bc if there was no law of God there would be no sin nor a reason for grace. Gods law=definition of sin No Gods law=no definition of sin No sin=no need for grace Romans 7:7 Psalm 119. Law of God is freedom so we can walk righteously. To not be under the law of God (lev 5:17 cf 1 john 3:4; numb 15:30-31) is to be under the law of sin for transgressing it thus leading to death. Romans 7:14-25 discern which laws The law is spiritual but I am flesh sold under (the law of) sin I do not do what I want but I do what I hate. Desire for rightousness bc of the spirit given through faith but hating your sin that you will continue to do but only bc of your flesh not your heart. (Romans 1:17; Heb 3-11; james 2; 1 john)
Even though I believe that this view is very reasonable and makes sense especially in knowing who god is. I don't understand how manifestation has room in this when your saying everything is done already. It's like from what I understand if everything is already done which is what I see in scripture and if it isn't about my faith but Christ's faithfulness towards me and if that extends even to those who haven't heard it yet. Then why do healings only manifest when someone believes or has a revelation or someone prays or w/e that catalyst is I'm not even really sure what the catalyst is but my point is why is there sickness in the world why does poverty still exist? It seems to me if everything is on the basis of Christ and he has done our part for us then everything should be done and established apart from belief or at the very least when someone calls him lord all sickness and lack should go from their lives. I understand this in relation to things like morality you don't see righteousness established in your life until you understand who you are but I don't understand it in terms of supernatural manifestations? Anyone got a good understanding of this could point me to a teaching somewhere that would clarify this point for me?
@andre rabe 2/4 Most use Paul out of context as 2 pet 3 warns us about going the way of those without the law of God. To be clearer on my position since it seems people are confused everytime without fail and many will perish for a lack of knowledge (hosea 4:6). I cite it more in my own words as follows. The thing is we are sanctified by striving to obey Gods ways and not our flesh. That is what God mediated through moses for us to have a plumb line to go by as how to love God and each other, otherwise we create our own god, law and guidance [Moral, civil, ceremonial are an example (words arent even found in scripture) where scripture says the law is made up of (6) divisions dabar 1697- word (ex 34:1, 28; deut 4:13; 10:2, 4); mishmereth 4931- ordinances (1 ki 2:3; lev 18:30; numb 1:53; ez 40:45); kuqqah 2708- statute (lev 17:7; 23:41; 24:3; numb 27:11); mitzvah 4687- commandments (lev 4:2; 27:34; deut 4:2 c.f. 12:32); mishpat 4941- judgement (ex 21:1; deut 16:18; 17:9); Torah 8451- instruction (ex 24:12; deut 17:18; 28:58; conclusion (deut 11:1; Lev 26:15)]. The "613" applies in parts, to whom it applies to. If your a man, a woman, a priest, a farmer, a master, or a servant, all have different applications respectively. Theres a false paradigm of what the law is and how it applies. The sanctification we are to work towards is following Gods ways and not our ways which is the law of God. Now this does nothing for our salvation on our part but is evidence of our salvation bc we trust Gods ways and follow them "because we are saved" and not "for our salvation" and the Holy Spirit is guiding us in the right and true ways (james 2). The traditions of the early church fathers have twisted and corrupted this, as they blatently admit in jerome letter 75 ephaphanius paranion 29 and else where. The marcion heresy is and was only partly tossed out while the division of the ways of God coined as old as new testament, where its not 2 different Gods but rather a God who changed his perfect standards and application which contirdicts His word as He made eternal promises for all who come to faith through Israel, and additionally create countless more contridictions throughout scripture. [inspite of parables like Luke 5:33-39 where the wine is teachings(old=Gods doctrine (prov 4:2)/ new=mans doctrines mark 7:6-10) and the skins are believers (old=knowledge in the faith/ new=.no knowledge of the faith) where old wine works well in both old and new skins, while new doesnt work for old skin destroying the believers faith and if the new skin taste the old wine teachings it wont want to take in any new teaching for they are not good like Gods doctrine] Now do we follow the law perfectly? no. Are we required too? no. Do we strive to obey what we can and learn more so we can futher be sanctified in love and respect of God and Christ sacrifice? yes. This is the common mistake of many centuries of mans tradition which havent been tested but blindly followed and presumpasitionalisms have blinded people from searching out the truth like a berean (acts 17:11 which the only scripture they had was the tanakh). The scripture isnt black and white, grace vs obedience. Its obedience bc of grace and sanctification by observance of the law as it applies to each individual. Have we taken time to go through the law to see what would fit your specific situation? Have we then also compared it to the decalogue (10 words "dabar" in hebrew not commanments "mitzvah" as cited below) which is a summation of all the intructions of God? Have we also considered to carry out all the laws that pertain to each individual respectively is a means of loving God with your whole heart, mind, soul and strentgh and also your neighbor as yourself? Do we love God enough to obey him? (Ex 20:6 deut 5:10). Christ even says its our obedience that shows our willingness to be subserviant to Gods ways which will be our exsitance for all eternity with him and if we dont want that, he loves us enough to not force it on us (Matt 19:16-26).
Andre!! Glad to hear from you bro!! Keep posting the vids!! Your you tube friends miss you!!
Thanks Jared. I realized that most of our friends are still on our old channel so I'm trying to promote the new channel here: th-cam.com/channels/ol7hJyj69pkePYxUVw01rg.html
3/4 @Andre rabe Also "covenant" was added to the text in heb 8 where the context is actually the preisthood not the covenant and the fault was with the people and not the law which is perfect (psalm 19:7; 119) thus the Need to tranfer from earthly to heavenly priesthood and a perfect mediator and sacrifice and no longer ones which only kept Gods wrath at bay because of his promise to Noah being remembered by the sweet savour to the lord (gen 8:20-22). Yes there is a new (renewed) covenant built on better promises not a new law (deut 4:2; 12:32; ez 36-37 its about the law being written on our hearts so we can obey and do them) but there is no such thing as an old covenant as inferred nor does God change, neither his word or covanents which have eternal signs as a mark of his promise to keep them respectively (Edenic (Gen. 2:17-18); Adamic (); Noahic (Gen. 9:1-8); Abrahamic (Gen. 12:1-4; 13:14-17; 15:1-7; 17:1-8); Mosaic (Ex. 19:5; Deut 11:13-21); Land [Joshua] (Deut 30:1-10); Davidic (2 Sam. 7:4-16); and New (Deut. 30:6; Jer. 31:31-34; Ez. 36:26-27; Heb. 8-11). Also (heb 7) "change" is "metathesis" in greek meaning transfered not altered. If we are to say it was inspite of (deut 4:2; 12:32) which would be a sin, then what did it change to? The law of Christ or Love some would object. The issue here would be Deut 13 test and Deut 18 prophecy would both be failed and make Christ a false prophet which none of us believe. The priesthood and authority over the law moved from earthly to heavenly is the context of the passages. Same issue comes with Paul in translation where he uses "the (3588) law (3551)" [Law of God/Moses] and "law (3551)" [mans traditions, nations law, or specific law of God generally (lev 5:17 and numb 15:30-31 as seen in. Rom. 7:23-25; 8:2); and its all changed to "the law" everytime in English translations, changing the context and further muddying Pauls words when we clearly see (as i cited at the beginning) he taught, obeyed, followed, and believed in the Torah. [We also have 208 times the Torah is referenced, for both Jews and gentiles, by all the apostles and in all the 4 Gospels and epistles as a means of instruction in the faith.] Its also present in (ex 34) where "hadabarem* root dabar (1697)-words" was changed to "mitzvah (4687)- commandments" limiting Gods instructions (Torah 8451) to 10 to fit mans doctrine.
Theres a tradition of fear that if we do any work of the law we risk losing salvation but thats not scriptural. Theres a condition and context for obedience to Gods law when used lawfully is good (1 tim 1:8). If we do them for our own rightiousnees then yes, we dont have the promise of Christ and fall short deserving the punishment of a second death, but if we do them out of appreciation and reverence as we are told to do because of the grace given for our salvation, then No. We will not lose salvation for our obedience but rather gain blessings. That is scriptural.
People use that arguement to not obey selective laws, dietary, feast, days, Sabbath ect. (matt 22 if we come to his wedding feast unclean in faith as gentiles we will hear those terrible words (Mark 7:21-23), but again it's about learning, growing, applying, and obeying each in their own walk as they are guided (acts 15:20-21). But to out right deny obedience profanes and nullifies the law (mark 7:6-10) which can lead to potentially blasphemy of the holy spirit (matt 12:31-32) without repentance leaving no sacrifice for us (heb 10). We are to not force obedience (gal 2:3) but allow growth with correction the same as a child when we are ready (acts 16:5). If u catch that small reference to christ advice (matt 18:3)
Seperate note where do you stand on this understanding?
To be baptized in the name of the father the spirt and the son (matt 28:19-20) would be "YHWH" in consideration that is the same as revealed to moses which Yeshua [transliterated from hebrew to Greek "Iēsous" to latin "Isvs" to English "Jesus"] ("YHWH" saves or "YHWH"'s salvation) was prophiced to be in the flesh Emmanuel ("YHWH" with us). "*How ever you pronounce YHWH*" besides this we agree about Christ is King (psalm 2:1-12) as Samuel warned His people that He was their King which they wanted to exchange for men against His warning. 1 Sam 8:10-22; Isa 43:15.
The law is:
The way: ex 18:20; deut 10:12; Josh 22:5; 1 kin 2:3; psa 119:1; prov 6:23; isa 2:3; mal 2:8; mark 12:14; acts 24:14
The truth: psa 43:2-4; 119:142; mal 2:6; rom 2:20; Gal 5:7; jo 8:31-32
Life: job 33:30; psa 36:9; prov 6:23; Rev 22:14
Light: job 24:13; 29:3; psa 36:9; 43:2-4; 119:105; prov 6:3; isa 2:5; 8:20; 51:4; 2 cor 6:14; 1 jo 1:7
Jesus is:
the word of God jo 1:1-14
Law acted out jo 14:6
The law is liberty psa 119:44-45; james 1:25; 2:12
Jesus is our liberty gal 5:1
Whats the doctrinal issue today? Prov 4:2
hey does anyone know of some really good places to learn the gospel like andre and francois know it? like theres something that these guys have that ive never heard in other people, help?
Thanks for asking Brody - check out Mimesis.academy: www.mimesis.academy
From a perspective of non concrete lines for perception of understanding with mans logic I ask this question. "When thrown out of the garden, the story says that God placed an Angel by the entrance with a flaming sword. It also says that the only way back in is trough that flaming sword. Can one believe that the type and shadow of a flaming sword could mean that only through the lake of 🔥fire (which religion should have never given to the devil, Our God is a CONSUMING 🔥 fire) meaning through fires of adversity the overcome who overcomes (Rev 2:17) is refined by the burning away of the wood gay, stubble of mans reasoning?"
Elijah in 1Kings repaired the alter, Kaye's the wood(humanity) and the Sacrifice (death of the lamb) in order then the fire fell... Even after that he was on the mountain and experienced a tempestuous wind, an earthquake and then a FIRE. Then after that a still small voice. It seems that adversity through the fire gives way back to his original intent... RELATIONSHIP with Him.
Gene Oklahoma U.S.
Those are insightful analogies Gene. It is in the reality of suffering that we learn to forgive... and it is in the act of forgiveness that we again find the peace we are at home in. The Inverted series continues here: th-cam.com/channels/ol7hJyj69pkePYxUVw01rg.htmlplaylists?view_as=subscriber
Is that you Andre? From Durbanville?
@andre rabe 1/4 confusion starts with what is taught without testing (1 thes 5:21) and its unseen implications. God doesnt break his own law, he upheld his promises from eden through christ (hen 8-11; Rev.) Hes also upholding his justice/mercy by paying the fine for us. We are not killing Christ he lays his life down willingly for us. This is the mystry Paul spoke on (eph 3:1-13), it wasnt the jews (kingdom of Judah) who were removed for gentiles but the kingdom of Israel who were divorced and scattered into the nation's (gentiles) which God promised he would will remarry (Jer 3:1-5; 31; ez 36-37 [law written on hearts to obey and do, 2 stick prophecy], but (deut 24:1-4) he would break his own law bc they were married to the false gods now. Which gave a means for us to be grafted in (Rom. 11:11-31; Eph 2:11-19). Paul explains this in (rom. 7:2). Most then mistakenly believe we are to sin (1 john 3:4) bc of grace (Rom 6:15) being free from the law in Christ (Gal. 6:2; 1cor 9:21) which we see as follows is in error.
"Do we sin because grace abounds? God forbid!!!"
(prov 4:2; 28:9; psalm 19:7; and 119:1-176) [and everything else as a whole context cover to cover of the scriptures]. In consideration of:
Milk and Meat are different levels of teaching but majority tend to stay on milk well past their need for meat leaving the church in search of substance that they were denied (1 cor 3:1-3; heb 6). We should also define what sin is (Lev 5:17; numb 15:30-31 1 john 3:4) and how to love God. (Ex 20:6; deut 5:10; 1 john 1-5). Which is the purpose of all mankind (eccl 12:13) Because Christ warns the love of many will grow cold (matt 24:12-15) and the Greatest command is to Love God (Deut 6:4-7) and second to love your neighbor (lev 19:9-18) which all the law and prophets teach us how to act it out in our walk (matt 22:34-40) as we are to imitate Christ example (1 John 1:26; 1 cor 11:1) which is fruit of our faith (Gal 5:21-23) [against such there is no law] and evidence we are in Gods love grace and mercy (1 john and James) and without it we are dead in our faith, which Christ also commands us to be careful to obey and do (ex 20 [why teachers where established] Lev 16:16, 32-34; 17:9-10; deut 17:8-13; 18:15-19; 25:2-3; matt 23:1-5, 23 [how teachers were established]) keeping both the letter and spirit of the law. Not removing one jot or tittle (deut 4:2; 12:32; matt 5:18; 24:35-39; luke 16:16-17). Creating good dialogue correction and teaching (2 tim 3:16-17) since Paul also taught the same corrections and advice [what did paul teach? (1 tim 1:8-11): unholy (lev 11:44); profane (lev 21:7); killers of mothers and fathers (ex 20:12); murderers (ex 20:13); immoral (ex 34:15); homosexuals (lev 18:22); kidnappers (deut 24:7); liars (lev 19:11); perjuerers (ex 20:16); and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine (prov 4:2) (*forsake not my law*). What else did Paul believe and do? Believed everything in the Torah (acts 24:14); Always kept the Sabbath (acts 17:2; 18:4); Kept the leviticus 23 feast (acts 20:6, 16); Told us to keep the feast (1 cor 5:7-8); Said we establish the law (romans 3:31); Taught from the torah (acts 28:23); Obeyed the Torah (acts 21:24; romans 7:25); Took delight in the Torah (romans 7:22); Sacrificed at the temple after writting romans and galatians (acts 21:26)] . 😃 👼 To be clear salvation by grace through faith (eph 2:8-9), blessings by the law through obedience. (Deut 11:26; 30:19). It's a paradigm inquiry and correction. We, once we come into faith, are no longer gentiles but citizens of the common wealth of Israel inheriting the promises of Abraham as hisnadopted seed. Which, yes, also includes circumcision as we are commanded to do. The confusion here is we are to circumcised our hearts first, then when we have become knowledged and obedient to our fullest extent and our faith is in such a position to convict us that we are ready, then we make that step. Not by force, but by personal decision and agreement from an elder no differently than Paul did with Timothy (being ready) and Titus (not being ready) which I further clarify near the end.
@andre rabe 4/4 Don't be under [the] law (Paul misused 2 pet 3)
When Paul uses "the (3588) law (3551)" he is refering to the whole of God's law. While when he uses just "law (3551 nomos)" its a general statement of a law, whether it be mans tradition, a nations law, or a specific law of God. I would argue that every verse that uses "law" without the Greek article "the" [which wasnt italicized but continuously added to the text for grammical correction which changes the context and authorial intent of Pauls epistles] Paul is refering to a concept built on (lev 5:17 (c.f. 1 john 3:4); numb 15:30-31) which is evidenced in his philosophical explaination found in both (romans 7:23-25 law of sin; law of sin and death 8:2 [see below])
As for Romans Paul's use of law is used 6 different ways.
1) law of God (Romans 3:31; 7:22-25, 8:7)
Torah defines what is sin and what is not sin
2) law of sin (Romans 7:23-25)
The spirit in us directs us or instructs us towards the law of God. The flesh directs pr instructs us toward the law of sin. At the ressurection, the law of God will finally completely prevail over us and the battle and internal struggle between flesh and spirit will be over for us. The race will have been run and won. However, before that happens, we are in sin and sin leads to death.
3) law of sin and death (Romans 8:2)
The instruction of the flesh, or sin, leads us to death, and this is known as the law of sin and death. We were all under the law of sin and death before we enter the faith, yet we did not realize it at the time. Our flesh calls the law of sin freedom, whan it is actually bondage, and it is bondage that leads to death. The instruction of sin from our flesh leads to the instruction from God that demands our death because of sin. We live our lives under the law of sin and death until we have a desire for truth; that desire comes not from the flesh, but from the Spirit.
4) law of the spirit of life (Romans 8:2)
The law of the spirit tells us the law of God is the truth Once it is heard. It leads us toward the law of God, and away from the instruction of the flesh. The spirit exposes the flesh and its natural predisposition for sin. Then, it is the moment when the law of the spirit enters into us that we imediately realize we are under the law of sin and death. It is then that we realize we are in prison and bondage to our own sin. We then understand that we are in a hopeless state. Once we realize that we are in prison, we desire a way out. We then look to our Creator for the way out. The spirit or desire for truth and desire for freedom causes us to establish the faith in our Creator and His eternal and authoritative unchanging word.
5)law of faith (Romans 3:27)
The law of faith is to conform your way of thinking to the Word of God. Paul refers to this as becoming a new man. In the faith, one adopts the word of God and the authority over their lives. This is contrary to the flesh as your authority, which sees the word of God as bondage. This so not a mental assent, but a transformation of our core beliefs and foundation that directly impacts how we perceive the world and interact with it. In obedience to the law of faith, we see the word of God as freedom and the way to live. It is also once we enter into this faith, and run the race in the faith, that we are granted eternal life through His grace. It is our internal transformation and spirit or desire for his word that leads to salvation from the law of sin and death. This js occuring before we do anything, which also demonstrates that salvation is not a matter of works, but a new creation in us. However, that new creation in us causes us to want to practice rightiousness.
6)law of rightiousness (Romans 9:31)
The law of rightiousness is the imstruction tonlive out our faith, it simply means to practice rightiousness. It is the doing of the right ways of our Creator. This is in effect of our faith. Because we believe the Word of God to be the truth and the right way to live, our lives should resemble living righteously. This is in contrast to living in the flesh, which is after our own ways, which are like filthy rags to our creator. Our creators ways are rightious, and the rightiousness we practice is the evidence or fruit of our faith. This rightiousness, or right way to walk out the law of God, has been evidenced in the lives of manybthroughout the ages. The most popular is through Jesus Christ.
7)law of christ (1 Corinthians 9:21)
The law of Christ is his intructions, as an example, to follow the law if God in the faith. Our messiah never once spoke his own instruction from his own authority. He simply repeated and practiced the valid interpretation of the eternal unchanging word of God that has assisted sonce the beginning. It is in Jesus that all of these laws are reconciled and understood. Jesus taught us the law of God as truth. He pointed out our sin, teaching us that our son leads to death. He told us that we need to be saved from the law of sin and death. For that to happen, we need to listen to the spirit to enter the faith of the Word of God. Our messiah lived his life in the word of God perfectly. That enabled two things. One, he now serves as the perfect example on how to walk out the Torah or the law of God.
Romans 6:14 (does not mention law of God but in context its refering to 2 & 3*)
Sin did have dominion over us, now we are no longer under its law.
Did Paul mean that we are not under the law of God because we are not under sin?
Law of God=sin?
Answer: romans 7:7
Is the law sin? May it never be! On the contrary I would not have known sin but by the law.
It is by the law of God we know sin.
John 3:4 lawlessness
Law=torah
The law of sin (Romans 7:23-25 is in opposition to...
The law of God (Romans 3:31; 7:22-25; 8:7)
Gen 2:16 breaking the laws/commandments of God leads to death.
Romans 5:12 all sin so death comes to all
Romans 6:14
We over come death because we are no longer under the law of sin but under the law of grace through faith.
Romans 6:8-9
Death no longer has dominion over christ so if we take upon his death by dying in him and removing the *2-3 away from us we are saved by 5*
Improper Interpretation and out of context.
"We are no longer under 'the law of God' bc of grace."
Romans 8:2
What's the "therefore" therefore?
Grace is recieving forgiveness for breaking the law.
Being under grace means we are free from the bondage of sin (col 2:14) not free from Gods law. Bc if there was no law of God there would be no sin nor a reason for grace.
Gods law=definition of sin
No Gods law=no definition of sin
No sin=no need for grace
Romans 7:7
Psalm 119. Law of God is freedom so we can walk righteously.
To not be under the law of God (lev 5:17 cf 1 john 3:4; numb 15:30-31) is to be under the law of sin for transgressing it thus leading to death.
Romans 7:14-25 discern which laws
The law is spiritual but I am flesh sold under (the law of) sin
I do not do what I want but I do what I hate.
Desire for rightousness bc of the spirit given through faith but hating your sin that you will continue to do but only bc of your flesh not your heart.
(Romans 1:17; Heb 3-11; james 2; 1 john)
Even though I believe that this view is very reasonable and makes sense especially in knowing who god is. I don't understand how manifestation has room in this when your saying everything is done already. It's like from what I understand if everything is already done which is what I see in scripture and if it isn't about my faith but Christ's faithfulness towards me and if that extends even to those who haven't heard it yet. Then why do healings only manifest when someone believes or has a revelation or someone prays or w/e that catalyst is I'm not even really sure what the catalyst is but my point is why is there sickness in the world why does poverty still exist? It seems to me if everything is on the basis of Christ and he has done our part for us then everything should be done and established apart from belief or at the very least when someone calls him lord all sickness and lack should go from their lives. I understand this in relation to things like morality you don't see righteousness established in your life until you understand who you are but I don't understand it in terms of supernatural manifestations? Anyone got a good understanding of this could point me to a teaching somewhere that would clarify this point for me?
@andre rabe 2/4 Most use Paul out of context as 2 pet 3 warns us about going the way of those without the law of God. To be clearer on my position since it seems people are confused everytime without fail and many will perish for a lack of knowledge (hosea 4:6). I cite it more in my own words as follows.
The thing is we are sanctified by striving to obey Gods ways and not our flesh. That is what God mediated through moses for us to have a plumb line to go by as how to love God and each other, otherwise we create our own god, law and guidance [Moral, civil, ceremonial are an example (words arent even found in scripture) where scripture says the law is made up of (6) divisions dabar 1697- word (ex 34:1, 28; deut 4:13; 10:2, 4); mishmereth 4931- ordinances (1 ki 2:3; lev 18:30; numb 1:53; ez 40:45); kuqqah 2708- statute (lev 17:7; 23:41; 24:3; numb 27:11); mitzvah 4687- commandments (lev 4:2; 27:34; deut 4:2 c.f. 12:32); mishpat 4941- judgement (ex 21:1; deut 16:18; 17:9); Torah 8451- instruction (ex 24:12; deut 17:18; 28:58; conclusion (deut 11:1; Lev 26:15)]. The "613" applies in parts, to whom it applies to. If your a man, a woman, a priest, a farmer, a master, or a servant, all have different applications respectively. Theres a false paradigm of what the law is and how it applies. The sanctification we are to work towards is following Gods ways and not our ways which is the law of God. Now this does nothing for our salvation on our part but is evidence of our salvation bc we trust Gods ways and follow them "because we are saved" and not "for our salvation" and the Holy Spirit is guiding us in the right and true ways (james 2). The traditions of the early church fathers have twisted and corrupted this, as they blatently admit in jerome letter 75 ephaphanius paranion 29 and else where. The marcion heresy is and was only partly tossed out while the division of the ways of God coined as old as new testament, where its not 2 different Gods but rather a God who changed his perfect standards and application which contirdicts His word as He made eternal promises for all who come to faith through Israel, and additionally create countless more contridictions throughout scripture. [inspite of parables like Luke 5:33-39 where the wine is teachings(old=Gods doctrine (prov 4:2)/ new=mans doctrines mark 7:6-10) and the skins are believers (old=knowledge in the faith/ new=.no knowledge of the faith) where old wine works well in both old and new skins, while new doesnt work for old skin destroying the believers faith and if the new skin taste the old wine teachings it wont want to take in any new teaching for they are not good like Gods doctrine] Now do we follow the law perfectly? no. Are we required too? no. Do we strive to obey what we can and learn more so we can futher be sanctified in love and respect of God and Christ sacrifice? yes. This is the common mistake of many centuries of mans tradition which havent been tested but blindly followed and presumpasitionalisms have blinded people from searching out the truth like a berean (acts 17:11 which the only scripture they had was the tanakh). The scripture isnt black and white, grace vs obedience. Its obedience bc of grace and sanctification by observance of the law as it applies to each individual. Have we taken time to go through the law to see what would fit your specific situation? Have we then also compared it to the decalogue (10 words "dabar" in hebrew not commanments "mitzvah" as cited below) which is a summation of all the intructions of God? Have we also considered to carry out all the laws that pertain to each individual respectively is a means of loving God with your whole heart, mind, soul and strentgh and also your neighbor as yourself? Do we love God enough to obey him? (Ex 20:6 deut 5:10). Christ even says its our obedience that shows our willingness to be subserviant to Gods ways which will be our exsitance for all eternity with him and if we dont want that, he loves us enough to not force it on us (Matt 19:16-26).