I remember the day when I realized that through the power of the gospel, I could be made pure again. I could be innocent. I could have motivations of love instead of desire. Oh what a glorious day it was! Then, to look back over the years and to see it actually taking place? “Worthy is the lamb who was slain!” is all I can say.
Adultery is certainly learned. Here in Brazil we have a TV channel called "Globo" which shifted the morality of the population MASSIVELY via its soap operas. When exporting its soap operas to Cabo Verde in Africa, its populace gradually experienced a massive increase in adultery via the subtle messages of "acceptable adulteries" portrayed in the soap operas, as well.
When you said "be free of it" it reminded me of my own realization and desire for freedom when I finally repented and it is so good. God has rescued me from sin and is working in me day by day. My struggle with entertainment now lies more in the distraction it can pose. Even in this I know the Lord will see me through, but it is a struggle especially after a long day to not watch that Office episode for the 9000th time and instead do something constructive for the kingdom or for my family or even for myself. The passivity of entertainment is a danger that underlines all the other dangers it poses. And I have to admit I'm not doing a great job in this area. Beautiful teaching, Gavin thank you for continuing to surface these jewels of wisdom from our ancient brothers and sisters.
I feel like watching the office is a lot better than a lot of things Christian’s probably watch. I don’t mean to sound argumentative but it’s definitely the case that many people watch incredibly degenerate media. Especially children’s content being hardly educational anymore. I’ve learned a lot from movies, tv shows, fiction novels, even video games when it comes to really deep and important topics like relationships, love, family, and even understanding violence. I think it’s important for Christian’s to be very discerning about entertainment but we should not lose the beauty and simplicity that art provides us in understanding important issues such as biblical issues. There’s a good reason the office is one of the most popular tv shows of all time you are probably a much funnier person for watching it lol
I've recently spent 4 hours playing "Bunny Garden" (an anime dating simulator) yesterday. I went to bed at 1am. Pastor, you don't realise how blessed this video is to me this day 😂. Repentance all the way. I will change through christ. Introverted male young adults are doomed in this entertainment world. 😅
Let even your introverted character be transformed by Christ! I used to be that way, but now I’m both extro and intro when needed although my basic nature is still there but infused by His grace.
I just want to say, thank you for being sensitive to the obsessive compulsive tendencies of your viewer. As someone who suffers from intense OCD, things like this can bring a lot of anxiety, but you handled this very well and with lots of compassion.
For me the most fundamental lesson I learned from the Holy Spirit on this topic generally (vice, sin, entertainment, etc) is: "Until you stop viewing having your ability to kill yourself limited as oppression, you are enslaved to death." I say it in this way despite it being more confusing sounding because the negative statement of a thing can sometimes be more potent than the positive. You are not more free because you do meth, you are less free. You are not more free because you watch porn, you are less free. These are consuming, enslaving habits that drive you promptly towards demise. That is not freedom. Anything marching you towards death is enslavement. Anything marching you towards life is freedom. Choose Christ and be free to live and live abundantly.
“No matter who you are, no matter what you’ve done, you are not beyond the grace of God…. Those words, ‘washing off through grace’, that’s it - that’s the gospel.” I was just thinking the other day how reading the Bible for the first time in my life feels like I’m vomiting out all this pain and sorrow that’s been inside my whole life. Thank you Gavin for what you’re doing here.
So when it comes to these questions, of entertainment or whatever, I think St. Pauls words in Corinthians should be considered: "All things are lawful to me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." Simply put, do you consume the entertainment, or does it consume you? That's the question we should be asking ourselves as Christians.
I agree that much of what we view as entertainment today is actually just glorifying sin, but a point that also needs to be remembered is how prone to asceticism the early church was. See, for example, Clement of Alexandria's views on hiccuping or smiling. But in general, sure: -Avoid shows that glorify sexual immorality or violence. -Consider whether you're being entertained into passivity or unproductivity. -Always ask yourself, "what is it I'm enjoying about this show?" If it's sinful, let it go. But also remember that storytelling, humor, and imagination are simply tools. They can be used for good or ill. The medium is not the message, and we don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Ah, now I see why Augustine was so against the theaters in his writings (I am currently reading The City of God). I thought that in the theaters there were plays like Shakespeare's or Sophocles's tragedies and thought that Augustine is too harsh on entertainment in general. Now I see that I was wrong.
When you were talking about how violence on screen is more than just the fact that the actor doesn't actually die; I couldn't help but think about that line in Gladiator, where Russell Crowe kills the guys, and then screams "Are you not entertained!?". Honestly, I could never get it out of my head that the director intended that question just as much for the audience of his film, as for the audience IN the film, and ever since I understood it in that way, I have found myself grimacing at the gruesome brutality in not just that film, but others as well. I don't get joy out of seeing people savagely dispatched. That said, I think there is merit to violence playing a pivotal role in the aid of storytelling. You can be grossed out, and disturbed when the storyteller intends you to be.
I can't help but think, beyond war movies (Saving Private Ryan, etc.) and the like (Gladiator) which intend to make killing disturbing, movies that use over the top gruesomeness in some profane or trite way are really an attack or diminishment of the image of God. It's become clearer to me that those creating these worlds where the loss of life is flippant or even comical take lightly the sacredness of man and help their audiences to do so in the real world. I especially appreciate idea about entertainment being a catechism is so on point here.
I didn't have WiFi for a summer once, and that made me read so much, try to learn the guitar....all sorts of things! I wish I wasn't going back to school so I could keep that up, often.
This was a very good video. I really appreciated it. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and these convicting calls from the church fathers. On the note of encouragement, as I heard you speak Cyril's well known quote kept ringing in my ears: "Your accumulated offenses do not surpass the multitude of God's mercies; your wounds do not surpass the Great Physician's skill."
"The problem with entertainment is not that it has too much joy in it, but that it deadens joy." So true! But let us not be among those who forsake worldly pleasures but make no strong connection with heavenly ones. John 10v10
Great video! I believe the key of discerning your personal boundaries in media is when you start to glorify, or nullify the evil that is occurring in it. That line can be different for many people so discernment is important. Once again a very good watch, and very informative!
Just found this channel while doing research on Eastern Orthodoxy. This guy is very knowledgeable and seems to value the need for intellectual satisfaction when it comes to some of the more key theologies.
Haha I was really worried about where I thought this was heading because I can think of certain movies where tragic events (sometimes involving violence) are depicted as part of the story, and I feel like to class all of that as bad would do real damage to art generally. However, you recognized the same towards the end. Great video.
I've been pursuing novel writing and even scriptwriting as a hobby, but this is good conviction and a reminder that I shouldn't just be writing to gratify myself but make sure what I'm promoting is virtuous.
Revenhills quote hit the nail on the head. “Entertainment is the devil’s substitute for joy. The more joy you have in the Lord the less entertainment you need.”
Our faith is not that fragile. We can certainly use sanctified common sense to discern more honourable forms of entertainment. Seeking a monastic response is a poor response.
@@karlernstbuddenbrock371 My personal philosophy is it can be good/meutral for rest (kind of like Gavin said) but that you need to be spending *more time* in the Scriptures, or other Christian reading (like the church fathers). EDIT: And also not every day and not when you have more important stuff. I pray I'm right about this, because I do tend towards Scrupuloscity but was very lax before
I think that you can learn a lot from TV for instance. Documentaries, travel programmes etc are a great source of knowledge, of the world, of how things work and something of other people’s lives, which connect us with the realities of life. I wouldn’t watch so-called comedy programmes or soap operas, as they are an insult to any Christian’s intelligence! Discernment is the key!
Regarding coarse joking, here's what Proverbs 26:18-19 says: "Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death is the man who deceives his neighbour and says, “I am only joking!”
This was great! Very encouraging as my family has had developing convictions about entertainment and this video is helpful. Praise God. & Lord have mercy on us for all of our close accustomedness to what is actually evil in our entertainment. Lord Jesus Christ Son of God have mercy on me a sinner. Blessings Pastor Gavin!
Love does not delight itself in evil but rejoices with the truth. This is kinda my go to verse as a writer, and also as a watcher/reader. I don't want to create or consume anything that asks the viewer to call something evil good or vice versa, and I don't want voyeurism (e.g. asking the viewer to take pleasure in violence rather than using it to tell a 'true' story.)
This is an excellent video … deserves a part two …. Like it’s so hard especially when you are tired after the days work … to not just seek entertainment…. It’s hard to retrain ourselves to seek entertainment that is edifying or atleast does not deaden ur affections for Christ …. It’s an interesting point about catechesis … I wonder if that’s the reason so many of new movies and tv shows push their lgbtq agenda and very rarely are Christian’s portrayed in good light also in them……it’s hard to be vigilant in ur downtime and to use ur downtime profitably … but feel like this is a major area the enemy is active….eager to hear more good ideas about healthy ways to have downtime without contaminating ur soul… please share more ideas/ strategies or another video on this
Well handled without shaming folks, that's wisdom! I've heard it said, it's shame that holds a particular sin to someone.. Bring it out into the open with a trustworthy Pastor, Elder, Brother or Sister in Christ, or understanding spouse, and let the shame and sin both go where they belong, to the cross where they were nailed! Thank You for that message of freedom & grace Brother Gavin! 🙏🕊️👍
I tell my kids and my students that every time they sing their songs they are meditating. It was hard for me where my own music wasn’t as ubiquitous as it is today.
Thank you, Dr. Ortlund! I've been thinking about this a long time and it especially hit me when I watched gladiator, because I wondered what the difference between me as a viewer and the actual viewers in the time of the Romans was. On top of this purity is a constant struggle. Please pray that the Lord would guide me to a clean and beautiful path.
One of the most convicting scriptures that helped shape me in choosing reading and movies is found in Psalm 11:5, “he who loves violence my soul hates.” I love mysteries but I choose them carefully. Dorothy Sayers and Ellis Peters (Brother Cadfael especially) are two of my favorite authors. Richard Osman is fun and funny and so is Martha Grimes. But I draw the line at an author’s preoccupation with the gruesome and twisted, for example Patricia Cornwell. Just my own personal conviction! Thanks so much for this, Gavin. I am saving this to use in teaching my children.
I feel like I know I keep repeating it over and over again but thank you soooooo much dearest brother Gavin. What a subject to tackle and how brilliant a job you have done again! Love your pastoral conclusions full of wisdom. God bless
@@1Whipperin Please show me in the Bible where Jesus said not to use a title called doctor. Do you call your dad father?? Jesus says not to do that from your logic too 💀
@@raphaelfeneje486Matthew 23: 8-12 Jesus commanded against titles amongst the brethren. Calling your dad father is in reference to your family and biological relationship and is not a title amongst the brethren so that is not what Jesus commanded against. All believers are equal. There is no hierarchy in the Church. Paul never referred to himself as Apostle Paul. He referred to himself as Paul, an apostle.
@@1Whipperin You literally refuted yourself. Matt.23.9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Is father a title your dad was given when he was born?? LOL. Paul, an apostle. Is the "apostle" a title or a name given to Paul?? That's the same as Doctor Gavin. Stop reading into the Bible what it doesn't intend. Jesus clearly was talking about those Pharisees that were acting as though they were above everyone. Aaron the highpriest is a title. We can say Highpriest Aaron! Your argument is moot!! We can say Apostle Paul because Paul is an Apostle and that's a title, not his biological name. You've literally turned to the Pharisees that were trying to legalize religion.
Great video Gavin. I really appreciate your coverage of these subjects. Providing different angles and a sober look at difficult topics. Edit* I also appreciate your respond to how people may potentially or initially respond. This is one thing I also appreciate from early Church history. How when writing letters they anticipate responses because the response from the reader will not be immediate and may not come at all.
For anyone who sees this: He basically says that there are good and virtuous things in pagan literature/poets/etc. but we must avoid the bad and not allow it to poison our souls and minds with vice, immorality, murder, etc.
Such an impactful discussion with great reminders and conviction! I recently came across a couple of quotes that have challenged my choices of entertainment: "The degree to which you walk in the anointing of God is in direct proportion to the amount of darkness you allow in your life." and "If we care more about our entertainment than the defilement it brings to our spirit, I believe we have discovered an idol." Having a clean conscience and the joy of the Lord is more important than a few fleeting moments of pleasure.
Very well done and a much needed topic. Contemporary entertainment has become repulsive to Christianity and we, and myself in particular, would do well to remember that.
Love this video. Rich in thought and super honest… Your three cautions at the end is what I deeply appreciate - the pastoral care you extend is deeply cherished by me! Oh my soul rejoices in Christ my Good shepherd, oh how my wondering soul needs him every hour.
This was great! Thanks for the insightful commentary. I feel like we can’t admonish anyone about their entertainment without coming across judgmental and at the same time be gracious toward others and their walk with Christ and to look at our own hearts first.
When it comes to depictions today, it depends on whether it's depicted in a way that's supposed to make the audience applaud it or detest it. Both happen. A lot of it also depends on whether the victim is an innocent victim or an oppressor being stopped, and many things get into that gray area in between.
I've been critical of your interpretations of the Fathers in the past, but you got this one exactly right. We Christians of all faiths must do more to guard our eyes, ears and passions from all worldly things that separate us from God. We all succumb to the passions of the flesh from time to time. If we're going to have a spiritual life in Christ, we must focus on Christ all the time. That's why the Jesus prayer is so fundamental to Orthodox Christians, particulary when we have a worldly desire. I'm the first to admit that I fail all the time, but to have an awareness of what is separating me from Christ gets me back on track. Remember the Lord's Prayer we are to keep His name holy, bring the kingdom of Heaven to this world and to do God's will here on earth. It's not about what we have to do to get to heaven, it is wanting to be united with Christ right now in all we do and in all of our relationships, particulary with those with whom we disagree.
I really enjoyed the points you made towards the end. Specifically in relation to art and discernment over how Christians should engage with entertainment. When you brought up violence or “rated R” movies and the possible legalism that some Christians may subscribe to there: I was thinking how my views have been challenged and have shifted some throughout the years. Personally I also look at the context of the story in a film or tv show. I don’t always do things perfectly but I think a good way I discern what I choose to watch or even play (if o play a video game) is the overall themes, story, characters, and message. I may not always agree with characters choices but if film and art help us be more empathetic as Christians, or if the stories depict the sinful and broken side of humanity well enough (without be too indulgent) then I’d say that engagement with and even enjoyment of those medium can help us really think and wrestle with the deeper aspects of the human experience. At least that is my take. Of course we rely on Christ for our purification for sin, and rest in his grace (PTL). But as a fan of movies, video games, and even music, I can’t help but think you are hitting it spot on with basically promoting us as Christians to be mindful of what be partake in, and how to appropriately engage with art, culture, (entertainment etc) in a more godly and thoughtful way!
I love this. I found "The Dangers of a Shallow Faith" by AW Tozer and "The Mortification of Sin in Believers" by John Owen great in this area. Also I remember RC Sproul teaching on Christian liberty, the weaker brother and legalism that was extremely helpful in understanding these things in Scripture and in life better.
Hi Gavin, please take up Capturing Christianity's offer to discuss the issue of war rape with Randal Rauser. He's a good faith interlocutor and he poses good objections.
Very thankful for this video. Honestly, growing up in a somewhat fundamentalist home, I sort of went to the other side of the spectrum and have not given very much thought as to the kind of media I exposed myself to in my adult life. My brother went to film school, and I was very influenced by a lot of the movies and shows he was watching, although I in no way blame him. I think he was kind of reacting to that fundamentalist attitude as well. I can definitely see some movies, like Lord of the Rings or even something grittier like No Country for Old Men, express violence to tell a story rather than to revel in the violence or make light of it. However, I wonder about movies like John Wick or Guardians of the Galaxy where violence is done in a flippant and careless way, and the violence itself is what is entertaining. Honestly, I haven't thought about this seriously until now. Thank you for bringing this to my heart. I will be meditating on it. Another thought I have now is whether taking out some of the blood and guts from violent movies in the past actually made things worse. Like, it's hard to take a scene of violence seriously when there 's nothing shocking about it. I wonder if this helped desensitize us to the point where now, gratuitous gore is present even in movies that treat violence flippantly. It's almost like taking out the gore was a step towards normalizing violence, which is now normalized with gore.
So glad you brought this up. Ive been in the MMA scene for over a year now and there is... a LOT of sin. But I enjoy martial arts, I enjoy sparring and Ive had the opportunity to share the gospel with some of the guys at my gym. I also enjoy playing videogames - I found my time spent in this area has decreased significantly the more I spend time with the Lord in prayer and study (well, duh), but I still come around to it here and there and find opportunities to share the gospel with other sincere gamers. Ultimately, I've been asking myself 1) "How does this affect the posture of my heart towards Christ?" and 2) Is this pulling me away from time spent with the Lord?
Wonderful video! It's refreshing to look at church history and see beyond specific doctrines and debates. For a while I've felt that Christians have fell short in this area, especially with consuming TV shows. I always wonder to myself where people find the time to watch so much to begin with!
Most of us will be watching this video with constant distraction from our devices, necessitating a proper and careful listening of this video at a dedicated time.
I've always thought that the church needs a more articulated theology of fun, especially on the local church level. One of the biggest misconceptions that I find in non-Christians is the idea that being Christian involves never having any fun of any kind...I always think of Mencken's line that puritanism is the fear that someone, somewhere, might be happy. This misconception is probably due, in part, to a distorted view of "fun," but I also think that there is a tradition of Christians viewing fun/pleasure with suspicion, as if it's at best a waste of time and, at worst, sinful in some way. Also, we need to be clear with our definitions, as "fun" or "entertainment" or "pleasure" can encompass a wide range of activities and seem to largely be relevant to each individual. Like, Christians probably shouldn't be watching snuff films or movies with tons of gratuitous sex, but I really don't think that my mom playing solitaire on her computer for 30-minutes a week is the devil's doing.
Hey Gavin, great video as usual. Not sure I would say you “missed” it, (maybe I just didn’t hear it), but could be worth mentioning that watching something with nudity is different than watching something with violence. Unlike cinematic violence, which isn’t real, nudity in cinema is always real.
I wrestle with this subject too, so I appreciate the pastoral thoughts and balance here. I have found the concepts of "do all things to the glory of God" and "do not cause a brother to stumble" to be very helpful here in the discernment process. Regarding violence, I understand your point about training the conscience, but the difference you mentioned between the actual killing in the gladiator arena and that in a movie/video game is still a critical one. There is a spectrum between glorifying real violence and kids playing cops and robbers with water guns. I have similar thoughts about slapstick humor, not that I get to define the rules. :) The more something in media impersonates the real thing, the more seriousness needs to be applied to it. Also, if it intends to awaken sin even if it is unrealistic, that would be a problem as well.
Amazing to see God delivering people with similar struggles today as then like for me porn has been a struggle for years recently I’m learning how to overcome only with the strength and wisdom of the Lord pray for me for I continue to struggle but a blessing to see
I know that this was in address to what the Early Church thought regarding entertainment, but the thought that I had always received was narrative pointing of a story and whether it was elevating us towards virtue or degrading our thoughts. The benchmark for the content within the story for said narrative purpose was always the Bible itself.
Dr. Gavin! Great video, just a quick suggestion on something else. Maybe you could make a video about the recently released document from the Dicastery for promoting Cristhian Unity called "The bishop of Rome". The Catholic Church is changing their position about some arguments that have been on debate about that the papacy. God bless you.
Thank you for striving to be faithful brother. The more I read the church fathers and lives of early saints, the more I see the grave disorder and sin of our culture and realize Christ truly is calling us to radical obedience. Honorable faithfulness will make us “weird” to the world’s eyes. But we were warned that the wisdom of the world is foolishness to God. May we be foolish for our King. Regarding one of your final admissions that you are currently thinking deeply about this topic and how obedience actually looks in real situations, as well as the accompanying question for input and if you missed anything, I would like to offer a principle to consider that allows for the appropriate discernment of how to engage with culture and media in a holy way. You asked something similar to, “is it ok to watch violence in media?” It seems to me the answer is: It depends on how you internally experience the violence. If you see it and it prompts the appropriate emotions of sadness; righteous indignation; alarm; or disgust, then it is probably not sinful. That is the appropriate emotional response to violence in our daily lives, so it should be our response when viewing it in media. If, on the other hand, we feel joy or excitement or even nothing at all, that is revealing a disorder within our emotive faculty. We are not interpreting the stimuli correctly, thus leading to a disordered-and by definition evil-emotional response. Let me illustrate that in an example. Two parent may watch a film to decide if it is admissible for their child to watch (a virtuous practice you would probably agree). If, in the film, an unexpected scene transpires that contains excessive cruel violence and one parent feels disgust and sadness while the other finds comical enjoyment in seeing the “bad guys get what they deserve,” then it is my assertion that the first parent did not sin while viewing the film while the second parent did. The meaning the first parent ascribed to the scene and the subsequent emotional response was right. The other parent sinned, because they “missed the mark” of how a holy person should respond to such stimuli. This obviously has grand implications for the rituals and preferences we have for media. For, a person who is offended or saddened by such violence will not be in the habit of viewing such content frequently. They may from time to time because a greater good is perceived to be attained (The Passion film is a good example; we don’t derive joy from watching the Holy One suffer in His incarnation, but it is a historical fact that is necessary to convey the meaning of the story and be reminded of the human condition). On the contrary, if a professed believer watches violent films because “I just like them,” well, that should be a cause for alarm and examination of conscience for the same reason given by the blessed church fathers you quoted in this video. I hope that is helpful in your reflection. I’m happy to hear your response if you believe it to be useful.
Really edifying! Thanks for posting. I am reading Presley's Cultural Sanctification. It would be helpful and fun to hear you two in a give and take conversation about the early Church and how we live today.
Pastor Ortlund, how do you think the discussion in this video apply to more interactive forms of entertainment, such as video games? Is it sinful to play violent video games?
YES! Very thankful for the last remarks about art. I totally agree that we have to "recapture" the different areas of art as Christians. As an aspiring game developer I hope to be able to contribute my part in this very youngest form of art :) Making games is hard, but it is good. Also, very important remarks about "how are things depicted" or, as I would describe it, "what is the intention of the work".
Many years ago, as a young person, I realised that much of the music I was listening to was gradually normalising in my mind what was actually perverted in society. I destroyed a huge proportion of my records (I said it was many years ago) that had cost me a fortune. As a result, I became far more aware of the negative cultural influences in all sorts of entertainment and because I don’t want to be “conformed to the pattern of this world”, I choose not to participate in most of it. I have a TV but apart from catching up with the news or watching a documentary, it’s usually off. Where I live there are no Christian channels. Occasionally, I’ll record a show so that I can skip any the “questionable bits”, eg. interviews or talk shows with guests which go “off the rails”; but in general, I find it’s hardly worth turning the TV on for entertainment these days.
I reckon that the "fornication" forbidden in Acts 15. 20 & 29 referred to the entertainments common among the ancient pagans (and now sadly very much present in our own day via TV, film, concerts, theatre etc.).
These are the profound ideas that Bring conviction from Holy Spirit. It is sad that we are so lax in our false ideas of individual freedom. Christ is pure and he calls us to that purity
You gave my husband and I so much to think about with this issue. We don't watch things that would be equal to the roman theatre, but are we being careful enough? That is something I walked away from this really wanting to ask myself before watching anything. We certainly need to be more discerning, not only in this way, but in every way.
I spent basically the first 40 years of my life addicted to TV. I had a collection of over 1000 movies, lots of TV shows, and 100s of video games. After I became a Christian I came to realize how sinful it all really was, and the Holy Spirit convicted me to repent of it all. I've gotten rid of all if it, and I only watch Christian content now, mostly on TH-cam. It wasn't until I became free from the adduction to cultural entertainment that I realized the true extent of the damage it had done. It's difficult to put it into words, but people think it's no big deal, and it's way more serious than they realize. When people think of p*rn they think of only the stuff labeled as such. The truth is that most of the entertainment we consume is also p*rn in one form or another. Whether it's vulgar humor, or just all of the very suggestive visuals, or even the glorification of violence. I spent way too much of my life watching it all. To the point where I have a substantial amount of it burned into my brain. I realize now that I wasn't just watching it. I was worshiping it, as most people are. When you devote that much time out of your life to something, that is a form of worship. When you repent of it, none of it really tastes the same anymore, and you can see how captive everyone is to their worship of entertainment.
You only have to watch entertainments for about 20 to 30 years before you begin to realize that they have begun t o repeat themselves. You begin seeing the same plots, the same themes, the same arguments dressed up in different clothes. That's when you realize that you've been sucking on an empty straw all your life. I think C.S. Lewis said something like "we often chose pleasure rather than joy because pleasure is easier to come by." I grew up in a Christian tradition that, in its inception, believed that a Christian should only the read the Bible. That started to lose its grip when the men decided it wasn't evil to have television for watching ball games. Two books I found helpful for finding a balance: The Liberated Imagination: Thinking Christianly About the Arts by Leland Ryken The Christian, the Arts, and Truth: Regaining the Vision of Greatness by Frank E. Gaebelein
It was really wonderful! I am a Roman Catholic but a huge fan of your ministry. To get an autograph of yours was awesome and you were so kind in taking my card. Thanks for this amazing experience :)
I've been to the Coliseum in Rome and I specifically recall a football stadium coming to mind as I walked the steps to see the numbers on the aisle, rows, and seats.
This was great. Thanks for engaging in this topic so honestly. I see christians many times on these types of topics doing mental gymnastics, trying to justify enjoying things that the world enjoys.
Have you ever read 'The Cross and the Switchblade' by David Wilkerson? In the beginning he explains that he was a small town pastor in Pennsylvania, without much happening to him, but God started doing a work in his heart, and he decided that instead of watching TV in the evenings, he would pray. Then God started doing amazing work through him, founding an addiction recovery programme in New York and the Times Square Church that is now internationally known today. I agree with your conclusions, but I think there's more to add. The devil loves to keep Christians entertained. It's not just a question of conscience and being taught, it's also keeping us busy with something else than Kingdom work.
Thank you for the advice! I do believe that through discernment we can find even seemingly horrific media, replete with death and sexual immorality like Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul to be catechistic in a positive way, because even those shows themselves show the devastating and unenvious those things are. I was never tempted by drugs, but Breaking Bad also cemented my aversion to that, and both of these shows demonstrate what terrible consequences pride leads to. As I watched those shows (and many others) I kept thinking “if only they had Christian values none of those people would’ve been hurt”
I remember the day when I realized that through the power of the gospel, I could be made pure again. I could be innocent. I could have motivations of love instead of desire. Oh what a glorious day it was! Then, to look back over the years and to see it actually taking place? “Worthy is the lamb who was slain!” is all I can say.
amen!
🙏🙏
Praise Christ!
Worthy He is, indeed!
Praise be to God!
If you think I'm gonna actually sit here and watch a 36 minute video about if church fathers back in the day would watch TV....well you'd be right
I'm 3 months late but was just about to say this.
Adultery is certainly learned. Here in Brazil we have a TV channel called "Globo" which shifted the morality of the population MASSIVELY via its soap operas. When exporting its soap operas to Cabo Verde in Africa, its populace gradually experienced a massive increase in adultery via the subtle messages of "acceptable adulteries" portrayed in the soap operas, as well.
Brasil mencionado ✝🟨🟩
Huehuehue brbr
When you said "be free of it" it reminded me of my own realization and desire for freedom when I finally repented and it is so good. God has rescued me from sin and is working in me day by day. My struggle with entertainment now lies more in the distraction it can pose. Even in this I know the Lord will see me through, but it is a struggle especially after a long day to not watch that Office episode for the 9000th time and instead do something constructive for the kingdom or for my family or even for myself. The passivity of entertainment is a danger that underlines all the other dangers it poses. And I have to admit I'm not doing a great job in this area. Beautiful teaching, Gavin thank you for continuing to surface these jewels of wisdom from our ancient brothers and sisters.
I feel like watching the office is a lot better than a lot of things Christian’s probably watch. I don’t mean to sound argumentative but it’s definitely the case that many people watch incredibly degenerate media. Especially children’s content being hardly educational anymore. I’ve learned a lot from movies, tv shows, fiction novels, even video games when it comes to really deep and important topics like relationships, love, family, and even understanding violence. I think it’s important for Christian’s to be very discerning about entertainment but we should not lose the beauty and simplicity that art provides us in understanding important issues such as biblical issues. There’s a good reason the office is one of the most popular tv shows of all time you are probably a much funnier person for watching it lol
@@jaymonpauling4835 I love The Office. I was just making fun of myself for watching it so much, haha. 😂
@@BrianWright-mi3lc I figured lol, it’s just important that Christian’s not dismiss art and popular media like Gavin seems to do in this video.
@@jaymonpauling4835 Ok I see! I agree with you. I will say though, I have it on good authority that Gavin also loves The Office. 😜
"Entertainment is catechesis" is very true, never heard someone phrase it like that before. Good stuff Gav
I've recently spent 4 hours playing "Bunny Garden" (an anime dating simulator) yesterday. I went to bed at 1am. Pastor, you don't realise how blessed this video is to me this day 😂. Repentance all the way. I will change through christ. Introverted male young adults are doomed in this entertainment world. 😅
Let even your introverted character be transformed by Christ!
I used to be that way, but now I’m both extro and intro when needed although my basic nature is still there but infused by His grace.
My heart is with you man
You can be introverted and not be on dating simulators lol
@@emmagrace6396 indeed ;)
Play more wholesome dating sims like CLANNAD and Steins;Gate!!
I just want to say, thank you for being sensitive to the obsessive compulsive tendencies of your viewer. As someone who suffers from intense OCD, things like this can bring a lot of anxiety, but you handled this very well and with lots of compassion.
For me the most fundamental lesson I learned from the Holy Spirit on this topic generally (vice, sin, entertainment, etc) is:
"Until you stop viewing having your ability to kill yourself limited as oppression, you are enslaved to death."
I say it in this way despite it being more confusing sounding because the negative statement of a thing can sometimes be more potent than the positive. You are not more free because you do meth, you are less free. You are not more free because you watch porn, you are less free. These are consuming, enslaving habits that drive you promptly towards demise. That is not freedom. Anything marching you towards death is enslavement. Anything marching you towards life is freedom.
Choose Christ and be free to live and live abundantly.
Amen!
“No matter who you are, no matter what you’ve done, you are not beyond the grace of God…. Those words, ‘washing off through grace’, that’s it - that’s the gospel.” I was just thinking the other day how reading the Bible for the first time in my life feels like I’m vomiting out all this pain and sorrow that’s been inside my whole life. Thank you Gavin for what you’re doing here.
Doing a study on food by the church fathers is also fascinating
So far they were definitely against overeating, calling it a minor sin (St. Clement of Alexandria)
I was thinking the same thing. That'd be a good video, Gavin!
So when it comes to these questions, of entertainment or whatever, I think St. Pauls words in Corinthians should be considered:
"All things are lawful to me, but I will not be brought under the power of any."
Simply put, do you consume the entertainment, or does it consume you? That's the question we should be asking ourselves as Christians.
Amen.
I agree that much of what we view as entertainment today is actually just glorifying sin, but a point that also needs to be remembered is how prone to asceticism the early church was. See, for example, Clement of Alexandria's views on hiccuping or smiling.
But in general, sure:
-Avoid shows that glorify sexual immorality or violence.
-Consider whether you're being entertained into passivity or unproductivity.
-Always ask yourself, "what is it I'm enjoying about this show?" If it's sinful, let it go.
But also remember that storytelling, humor, and imagination are simply tools. They can be used for good or ill. The medium is not the message, and we don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Hiccupping? Oh please tell! What was bad about hiccupping?! I myself am plagued by violent hiccups hence my interest.
Ah, now I see why Augustine was so against the theaters in his writings (I am currently reading The City of God). I thought that in the theaters there were plays like Shakespeare's or Sophocles's tragedies and thought that Augustine is too harsh on entertainment in general. Now I see that I was wrong.
When you were talking about how violence on screen is more than just the fact that the actor doesn't actually die; I couldn't help but think about that line in Gladiator, where Russell Crowe kills the guys, and then screams "Are you not entertained!?". Honestly, I could never get it out of my head that the director intended that question just as much for the audience of his film, as for the audience IN the film, and ever since I understood it in that way, I have found myself grimacing at the gruesome brutality in not just that film, but others as well. I don't get joy out of seeing people savagely dispatched. That said, I think there is merit to violence playing a pivotal role in the aid of storytelling. You can be grossed out, and disturbed when the storyteller intends you to be.
I can't help but think, beyond war movies (Saving Private Ryan, etc.) and the like (Gladiator) which intend to make killing disturbing, movies that use over the top gruesomeness in some profane or trite way are really an attack or diminishment of the image of God. It's become clearer to me that those creating these worlds where the loss of life is flippant or even comical take lightly the sacredness of man and help their audiences to do so in the real world. I especially appreciate idea about entertainment being a catechism is so on point here.
I didn't have WiFi for a summer once, and that made me read so much, try to learn the guitar....all sorts of things! I wish I wasn't going back to school so I could keep that up, often.
This was a very good video. I really appreciated it. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and these convicting calls from the church fathers. On the note of encouragement, as I heard you speak Cyril's well known quote kept ringing in my ears: "Your accumulated offenses do not surpass the multitude of God's mercies; your wounds do not surpass the Great Physician's skill."
"your wounds do not surpass the Great Physician's skill" -- love that
Got to stop polluting my mind with things that I'd usually call fun. Have to reform my mind. God's grace is sufficient. God bless you immensely ❤🙏✝️
"The problem with entertainment is not that it has too much joy in it, but that it deadens joy." So true! But let us not be among those who forsake worldly pleasures but make no strong connection with heavenly ones. John 10v10
Great video! I believe the key of discerning your personal boundaries in media is when you start to glorify, or nullify the evil that is occurring in it. That line can be different for many people so discernment is important. Once again a very good watch, and very informative!
This was so helpful and balanced. Thank you for addressing a controversial issue in a direct and grace-filled way.
Just found this channel while doing research on Eastern Orthodoxy. This guy is very knowledgeable and seems to value the need for intellectual satisfaction when it comes to some of the more key theologies.
Haha I was really worried about where I thought this was heading because I can think of certain movies where tragic events (sometimes involving violence) are depicted as part of the story, and I feel like to class all of that as bad would do real damage to art generally. However, you recognized the same towards the end. Great video.
I've been pursuing novel writing and even scriptwriting as a hobby, but this is good conviction and a reminder that I shouldn't just be writing to gratify myself but make sure what I'm promoting is virtuous.
Good ol Gavin always dropping pertinent content to keep us sober and introspective
Revenhills quote hit the nail on the head. “Entertainment is the devil’s substitute for joy. The more joy you have in the Lord the less entertainment you need.”
Thanks for sharing. Love Leonard Ravenhill!
Our faith is not that fragile. We can certainly use sanctified common sense to discern more honourable forms of entertainment. Seeking a monastic response is a poor response.
@@karlernstbuddenbrock371 My personal philosophy is it can be good/meutral for rest (kind of like Gavin said) but that you need to be spending *more time* in the Scriptures, or other Christian reading (like the church fathers). EDIT: And also not every day and not when you have more important stuff. I pray I'm right about this, because I do tend towards Scrupuloscity but was very lax before
But what kind of entertainment? Even heavily religious movies like the ones of Tarkovsky or books like the Quixote can be labeled as "entertainment"
I think that you can learn a lot from TV for instance. Documentaries, travel programmes etc are a great source of knowledge, of the world, of how things work and something of other people’s lives, which connect us with the realities of life. I wouldn’t watch so-called comedy programmes or soap operas, as they are an insult to any Christian’s intelligence! Discernment is the key!
Glad you cited Kyle's book! It's an amazing , dense work and a needed read for today's Church.
Regarding coarse joking, here's what Proverbs 26:18-19 says:
"Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death is the man who deceives his neighbour and says, “I am only joking!”
This was great! Very encouraging as my family has had developing convictions about entertainment and this video is helpful. Praise God. & Lord have mercy on us for all of our close accustomedness to what is actually evil in our entertainment.
Lord Jesus Christ Son of God have mercy on me a sinner.
Blessings Pastor Gavin!
Love does not delight itself in evil but rejoices with the truth. This is kinda my go to verse as a writer, and also as a watcher/reader. I don't want to create or consume anything that asks the viewer to call something evil good or vice versa, and I don't want voyeurism (e.g. asking the viewer to take pleasure in violence rather than using it to tell a 'true' story.)
This is an excellent video … deserves a part two …. Like it’s so hard especially when you are tired after the days work … to not just seek entertainment…. It’s hard to retrain ourselves to seek entertainment that is edifying or atleast does not deaden ur affections for Christ …. It’s an interesting point about catechesis … I wonder if that’s the reason so many of new movies and tv shows push their lgbtq agenda and very rarely are Christian’s portrayed in good light also in them……it’s hard to be vigilant in ur downtime and to use ur downtime profitably … but feel like this is a major area the enemy is active….eager to hear more good ideas about healthy ways to have downtime without contaminating ur soul… please share more ideas/ strategies or another video on this
Man, a few things you said in this video surely convicted me. Bravo, Dr. Ortlund. May the Lord bless you!
Well handled without shaming folks, that's wisdom! I've heard it said, it's shame that holds a particular sin to someone..
Bring it out into the open with a trustworthy Pastor, Elder, Brother or Sister in Christ, or understanding spouse, and let the shame and sin both go where they belong, to the cross where they were nailed!
Thank You for that message of freedom & grace Brother Gavin! 🙏🕊️👍
I tell my kids and my students that every time they sing their songs they are meditating. It was hard for me where my own music wasn’t as ubiquitous as it is today.
Thank you for the edifying truth in this video. God bless you :D
There is a great metaphor that Nate Wilson makes: Stories are soul food. What are you feeding your soul?
This was really convicting, but so graceful filled.
Thank you, Dr. Ortlund! I've been thinking about this a long time and it especially hit me when I watched gladiator, because I wondered what the difference between me as a viewer and the actual viewers in the time of the Romans was. On top of this purity is a constant struggle. Please pray that the Lord would guide me to a clean and beautiful path.
One of the most convicting scriptures that helped shape me in choosing reading and movies is found in Psalm 11:5, “he who loves violence my soul hates.” I love mysteries but I choose them carefully. Dorothy Sayers and Ellis Peters (Brother Cadfael especially) are two of my favorite authors. Richard Osman is fun and funny and so is Martha Grimes. But I draw the line at an author’s preoccupation with the gruesome and twisted, for example Patricia Cornwell. Just my own personal conviction!
Thanks so much for this, Gavin. I am saving this to use in teaching my children.
Time-stamp
7:05 - 1 Timothy 6:8 and Proverbs 30:8
8:29 - entertainment is formative, a teaching
Always appreciate the balanced approach from this channel. Thank you, Dr. Ortlund.
I feel like I know I keep repeating it over and over again but thank you soooooo much dearest brother Gavin. What a subject to tackle and how brilliant a job you have done again! Love your pastoral conclusions full of wisdom.
God bless
It's story time with Dr. Gavin Ortlund! Always something to learn. God bless you immensely 🙏❤️✝️
Is Dr. a Biblical title? Jesus commanded against such titles amongst the brethren. Matthew 23: 8-12
@@1Whipperin Please show me in the Bible where Jesus said not to use a title called doctor. Do you call your dad father?? Jesus says not to do that from your logic too 💀
@@raphaelfeneje486Matthew 23: 8-12 Jesus commanded against titles amongst the brethren. Calling your dad father is in reference to your family and biological relationship and is not a title amongst the brethren so that is not what Jesus commanded against. All believers are equal. There is no hierarchy in the Church. Paul never referred to himself as Apostle Paul. He referred to himself as Paul, an apostle.
@@1Whipperin You literally refuted yourself. Matt.23.9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Is father a title your dad was given when he was born?? LOL. Paul, an apostle. Is the "apostle" a title or a name given to Paul?? That's the same as Doctor Gavin. Stop reading into the Bible what it doesn't intend. Jesus clearly was talking about those Pharisees that were acting as though they were above everyone. Aaron the highpriest is a title. We can say Highpriest Aaron! Your argument is moot!! We can say Apostle Paul because Paul is an Apostle and that's a title, not his biological name. You've literally turned to the Pharisees that were trying to legalize religion.
Great video Gavin. I really appreciate your coverage of these subjects. Providing different angles and a sober look at difficult topics.
Edit* I also appreciate your respond to how people may potentially or initially respond. This is one thing I also appreciate from early Church history. How when writing letters they anticipate responses because the response from the reader will not be immediate and may not come at all.
Thank you so much for your practical and pastoral teachings from church history. You are such a blessing!
A very edifying reflection here. St. Basil's "Address to Young Men on Greek Literature" is also helpful on this topic.
For anyone who sees this: He basically says that there are good and virtuous things in pagan literature/poets/etc. but we must avoid the bad and not allow it to poison our souls and minds with vice, immorality, murder, etc.
Chrysostam would watch Truth Unites.
Very helpful. I love the quote: "We can often times have too low a view of common grace."
Such an impactful discussion with great reminders and conviction! I recently came across a couple of quotes that have challenged my choices of entertainment: "The degree to which you walk in the anointing of God is in direct proportion to the amount of darkness you allow in your life." and "If we care more about our entertainment than the defilement it brings to our spirit, I believe we have discovered an idol." Having a clean conscience and the joy of the Lord is more important than a few fleeting moments of pleasure.
Very well done and a much needed topic. Contemporary entertainment has become repulsive to Christianity and we, and myself in particular, would do well to remember that.
Thanks Gavin, great video!!!
Love this video. Rich in thought and super honest… Your three cautions at the end is what I deeply appreciate - the pastoral care you extend is deeply cherished by me! Oh my soul rejoices in Christ my Good shepherd, oh how my wondering soul needs him every hour.
This was great! Thanks for the insightful commentary. I feel like we can’t admonish anyone about their entertainment without coming across judgmental and at the same time be gracious toward others and their walk with Christ
and to look at our own hearts first.
When it comes to depictions today, it depends on whether it's depicted in a way that's supposed to make the audience applaud it or detest it. Both happen. A lot of it also depends on whether the victim is an innocent victim or an oppressor being stopped, and many things get into that gray area in between.
I disagree. I think the main difference that is important is if the violence on the screen is intended to entertain or not.
I've been critical of your interpretations of the Fathers in the past, but you got this one exactly right. We Christians of all faiths must do more to guard our eyes, ears and passions from all worldly things that separate us from God. We all succumb to the passions of the flesh from time to time. If we're going to have a spiritual life in Christ, we must focus on Christ all the time. That's why the Jesus prayer is so fundamental to Orthodox Christians, particulary when we have a worldly desire. I'm the first to admit that I fail all the time, but to have an awareness of what is separating me from Christ gets me back on track. Remember the Lord's Prayer we are to keep His name holy, bring the kingdom of Heaven to this world and to do God's will here on earth. It's not about what we have to do to get to heaven, it is wanting to be united with Christ right now in all we do and in all of our relationships, particulary with those with whom we disagree.
Great video, blessings!
I really enjoyed the points you made towards the end. Specifically in relation to art and discernment over how Christians should engage with entertainment.
When you brought up violence or “rated R” movies and the possible legalism that some Christians may subscribe to there: I was thinking how my views have been challenged and have shifted some throughout the years. Personally I also look at the context of the story in a film or tv show. I don’t always do things perfectly but I think a good way I discern what I choose to watch or even play (if o play a video game) is the overall themes, story, characters, and message. I may not always agree with characters choices but if film and art help us be more empathetic as Christians, or if the stories depict the sinful and broken side of humanity well enough (without be too indulgent) then I’d say that engagement with and even enjoyment of those medium can help us really think and wrestle with the deeper aspects of the human experience. At least that is my take. Of course we rely on Christ for our purification for sin, and rest in his grace (PTL). But as a fan of movies, video games, and even music, I can’t help but think you are hitting it spot on with basically promoting us as Christians to be mindful of what be partake in, and how to appropriately engage with art, culture, (entertainment etc) in a more godly and thoughtful way!
Wow. Finally, a video of yours I can embrace!
thanks for watching despite disagreement on other matters!
Thank you
Thank you for posting this
This blessed me and convicted me in exactly the way it needed to. Thank you Gavin 🙏
I love this. I found "The Dangers of a Shallow Faith" by AW Tozer and "The Mortification of Sin in Believers" by John Owen great in this area. Also I remember RC Sproul teaching on Christian liberty, the weaker brother and legalism that was extremely helpful in understanding these things in Scripture and in life better.
Hi Gavin, please take up Capturing Christianity's offer to discuss the issue of war rape with Randal Rauser. He's a good faith interlocutor and he poses good objections.
Great words, thanks for making this. This is a topic I have wondered about for awhile now.
Really fantastic video Gavin. Thankyou very much! Only 7 minutes in haha
Very thankful for this video. Honestly, growing up in a somewhat fundamentalist home, I sort of went to the other side of the spectrum and have not given very much thought as to the kind of media I exposed myself to in my adult life. My brother went to film school, and I was very influenced by a lot of the movies and shows he was watching, although I in no way blame him. I think he was kind of reacting to that fundamentalist attitude as well. I can definitely see some movies, like Lord of the Rings or even something grittier like No Country for Old Men, express violence to tell a story rather than to revel in the violence or make light of it. However, I wonder about movies like John Wick or Guardians of the Galaxy where violence is done in a flippant and careless way, and the violence itself is what is entertaining. Honestly, I haven't thought about this seriously until now. Thank you for bringing this to my heart. I will be meditating on it.
Another thought I have now is whether taking out some of the blood and guts from violent movies in the past actually made things worse. Like, it's hard to take a scene of violence seriously when there 's nothing shocking about it. I wonder if this helped desensitize us to the point where now, gratuitous gore is present even in movies that treat violence flippantly. It's almost like taking out the gore was a step towards normalizing violence, which is now normalized with gore.
Wonderful video, Gavin!
So glad you brought this up. Ive been in the MMA scene for over a year now and there is... a LOT of sin. But I enjoy martial arts, I enjoy sparring and Ive had the opportunity to share the gospel with some of the guys at my gym. I also enjoy playing videogames - I found my time spent in this area has decreased significantly the more I spend time with the Lord in prayer and study (well, duh), but I still come around to it here and there and find opportunities to share the gospel with other sincere gamers. Ultimately, I've been asking myself 1) "How does this affect the posture of my heart towards Christ?" and 2) Is this pulling me away from time spent with the Lord?
Really grateful for this video!
Thank you for this, Gavin. So good
Wonderful video! It's refreshing to look at church history and see beyond specific doctrines and debates. For a while I've felt that Christians have fell short in this area, especially with consuming TV shows. I always wonder to myself where people find the time to watch so much to begin with!
Thank you for this brother i needed to see this
Most of us will be watching this video with constant distraction from our devices, necessitating a proper and careful listening of this video at a dedicated time.
I've always thought that the church needs a more articulated theology of fun, especially on the local church level. One of the biggest misconceptions that I find in non-Christians is the idea that being Christian involves never having any fun of any kind...I always think of Mencken's line that puritanism is the fear that someone, somewhere, might be happy. This misconception is probably due, in part, to a distorted view of "fun," but I also think that there is a tradition of Christians viewing fun/pleasure with suspicion, as if it's at best a waste of time and, at worst, sinful in some way.
Also, we need to be clear with our definitions, as "fun" or "entertainment" or "pleasure" can encompass a wide range of activities and seem to largely be relevant to each individual. Like, Christians probably shouldn't be watching snuff films or movies with tons of gratuitous sex, but I really don't think that my mom playing solitaire on her computer for 30-minutes a week is the devil's doing.
Well that was convicting and thought provoking… thanks Gavin lol
Hey Gavin, great video as usual. Not sure I would say you “missed” it, (maybe I just didn’t hear it), but could be worth mentioning that watching something with nudity is different than watching something with violence. Unlike cinematic violence, which isn’t real, nudity in cinema is always real.
I do recomment Dave Stotts Driving thru History the Gospels and the Acts through Revelation. Every Christian should see this.
Very timely! 🙏🏽
The day after the premiere of House of the Dragon. I definitely feel convicted.
@@JaredPowell-e2x Haha, let us turn to God & honor Him with our life :)
I wrestle with this subject too, so I appreciate the pastoral thoughts and balance here. I have found the concepts of "do all things to the glory of God" and "do not cause a brother to stumble" to be very helpful here in the discernment process.
Regarding violence, I understand your point about training the conscience, but the difference you mentioned between the actual killing in the gladiator arena and that in a movie/video game is still a critical one. There is a spectrum between glorifying real violence and kids playing cops and robbers with water guns. I have similar thoughts about slapstick humor, not that I get to define the rules. :) The more something in media impersonates the real thing, the more seriousness needs to be applied to it. Also, if it intends to awaken sin even if it is unrealistic, that would be a problem as well.
Amazing to see God delivering people with similar struggles today as then like for me porn has been a struggle for years recently I’m learning how to overcome only with the strength and wisdom of the Lord pray for me for I continue to struggle but a blessing to see
Great video, I was very encouraged. Thanks for the reminder about God's grace.
I know that this was in address to what the Early Church thought regarding entertainment, but the thought that I had always received was narrative pointing of a story and whether it was elevating us towards virtue or degrading our thoughts. The benchmark for the content within the story for said narrative purpose was always the Bible itself.
I disagree with you on a lot, but I really appreciate this video and your comments about the subject.
Dr. Gavin! Great video, just a quick suggestion on something else.
Maybe you could make a video about the recently released document from the Dicastery for promoting Cristhian Unity called "The bishop of Rome". The Catholic Church is changing their position about some arguments that have been on debate about that the papacy.
God bless you.
Thank you for striving to be faithful brother. The more I read the church fathers and lives of early saints, the more I see the grave disorder and sin of our culture and realize Christ truly is calling us to radical obedience. Honorable faithfulness will make us “weird” to the world’s eyes. But we were warned that the wisdom of the world is foolishness to God. May we be foolish for our King.
Regarding one of your final admissions that you are currently thinking deeply about this topic and how obedience actually looks in real situations, as well as the accompanying question for input and if you missed anything, I would like to offer a principle to consider that allows for the appropriate discernment of how to engage with culture and media in a holy way.
You asked something similar to, “is it ok to watch violence in media?” It seems to me the answer is:
It depends on how you internally experience the violence.
If you see it and it prompts the appropriate emotions of sadness; righteous indignation; alarm; or disgust, then it is probably not sinful. That is the appropriate emotional response to violence in our daily lives, so it should be our response when viewing it in media.
If, on the other hand, we feel joy or excitement or even nothing at all, that is revealing a disorder within our emotive faculty. We are not interpreting the stimuli correctly, thus leading to a disordered-and by definition evil-emotional response.
Let me illustrate that in an example.
Two parent may watch a film to decide if it is admissible for their child to watch (a virtuous practice you would probably agree). If, in the film, an unexpected scene transpires that contains excessive cruel violence and one parent feels disgust and sadness while the other finds comical enjoyment in seeing the “bad guys get what they deserve,” then it is my assertion that the first parent did not sin while viewing the film while the second parent did. The meaning the first parent ascribed to the scene and the subsequent emotional response was right. The other parent sinned, because they “missed the mark” of how a holy person should respond to such stimuli.
This obviously has grand implications for the rituals and preferences we have for media. For, a person who is offended or saddened by such violence will not be in the habit of viewing such content frequently. They may from time to time because a greater good is perceived to be attained (The Passion film is a good example; we don’t derive joy from watching the Holy One suffer in His incarnation, but it is a historical fact that is necessary to convey the meaning of the story and be reminded of the human condition).
On the contrary, if a professed believer watches violent films because “I just like them,” well, that should be a cause for alarm and examination of conscience for the same reason given by the blessed church fathers you quoted in this video.
I hope that is helpful in your reflection. I’m happy to hear your response if you believe it to be useful.
Really edifying! Thanks for posting. I am reading Presley's Cultural Sanctification. It would be helpful and fun to hear you two in a give and take conversation about the early Church and how we live today.
Pastor Ortlund, how do you think the discussion in this video apply to more interactive forms of entertainment, such as video games? Is it sinful to play violent video games?
Pastor? Where in the Bible did anyone have the title Pastor? Thank you.
YES! Very thankful for the last remarks about art. I totally agree that we have to "recapture" the different areas of art as Christians. As an aspiring game developer I hope to be able to contribute my part in this very youngest form of art :) Making games is hard, but it is good.
Also, very important remarks about "how are things depicted" or, as I would describe it, "what is the intention of the work".
Very well done!
Many years ago, as a young person, I realised that much of the music I was listening to was gradually normalising in my mind what was actually perverted in society. I destroyed a huge proportion of my records (I said it was many years ago) that had cost me a fortune. As a result, I became far more aware of the negative cultural influences in all sorts of entertainment and because I don’t want to be “conformed to the pattern of this world”, I choose not to participate in most of it. I have a TV but apart from catching up with the news or watching a documentary, it’s usually off. Where I live there are no Christian channels. Occasionally, I’ll record a show so that I can skip any the “questionable bits”, eg. interviews or talk shows with guests which go “off the rails”; but in general, I find it’s hardly worth turning the TV on for entertainment these days.
I reckon that the "fornication" forbidden in Acts 15. 20 & 29 referred to the entertainments common among the ancient pagans (and now sadly very much present in our own day via TV, film, concerts, theatre etc.).
These are the profound ideas that Bring conviction from Holy Spirit. It is sad that we are so lax in our false ideas of individual freedom.
Christ is pure and he calls us to that purity
You gave my husband and I so much to think about with this issue. We don't watch things that would be equal to the roman theatre, but are we being careful enough? That is something I walked away from this really wanting to ask myself before watching anything. We certainly need to be more discerning, not only in this way, but in every way.
I spent basically the first 40 years of my life addicted to TV. I had a collection of over 1000 movies, lots of TV shows, and 100s of video games. After I became a Christian I came to realize how sinful it all really was, and the Holy Spirit convicted me to repent of it all. I've gotten rid of all if it, and I only watch Christian content now, mostly on TH-cam.
It wasn't until I became free from the adduction to cultural entertainment that I realized the true extent of the damage it had done. It's difficult to put it into words, but people think it's no big deal, and it's way more serious than they realize.
When people think of p*rn they think of only the stuff labeled as such. The truth is that most of the entertainment we consume is also p*rn in one form or another. Whether it's vulgar humor, or just all of the very suggestive visuals, or even the glorification of violence. I spent way too much of my life watching it all. To the point where I have a substantial amount of it burned into my brain.
I realize now that I wasn't just watching it. I was worshiping it, as most people are. When you devote that much time out of your life to something, that is a form of worship. When you repent of it, none of it really tastes the same anymore, and you can see how captive everyone is to their worship of entertainment.
You only have to watch entertainments for about 20 to 30 years before you begin to realize that they have begun t o repeat themselves. You begin seeing the same plots, the same themes, the same arguments dressed up in different clothes. That's when you realize that you've been sucking on an empty straw all your life. I think C.S. Lewis said something like "we often chose pleasure rather than joy because pleasure is easier to come by."
I grew up in a Christian tradition that, in its inception, believed that a Christian should only the read the Bible. That started to lose its grip when the men decided it wasn't evil to have television for watching ball games. Two books I found helpful for finding a balance:
The Liberated Imagination: Thinking Christianly About the Arts by Leland Ryken
The Christian, the Arts, and Truth: Regaining the Vision of Greatness by Frank E. Gaebelein
That's very cool as a topic!
Still trying to get used to you in a screen again after I managed to meet you in Rome last week. 😂
great to meet you! :)
It was really wonderful!
I am a Roman Catholic but a huge fan of your ministry.
To get an autograph of yours was awesome and you were so kind in taking my card.
Thanks for this amazing experience :)
I've been to the Coliseum in Rome and I specifically recall a football stadium coming to mind as I walked the steps to see the numbers on the aisle, rows, and seats.
This was great. Thanks for engaging in this topic so honestly. I see christians many times on these types of topics doing mental gymnastics, trying to justify enjoying things that the world enjoys.
You can’t enjoy football?
Phenomenal video
Have you ever read 'The Cross and the Switchblade' by David Wilkerson? In the beginning he explains that he was a small town pastor in Pennsylvania, without much happening to him, but God started doing a work in his heart, and he decided that instead of watching TV in the evenings, he would pray. Then God started doing amazing work through him, founding an addiction recovery programme in New York and the Times Square Church that is now internationally known today. I agree with your conclusions, but I think there's more to add. The devil loves to keep Christians entertained. It's not just a question of conscience and being taught, it's also keeping us busy with something else than Kingdom work.
Thank you for the advice! I do believe that through discernment we can find even seemingly horrific media, replete with death and sexual immorality like Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul to be catechistic in a positive way, because even those shows themselves show the devastating and unenvious those things are. I was never tempted by drugs, but Breaking Bad also cemented my aversion to that, and both of these shows demonstrate what terrible consequences pride leads to. As I watched those shows (and many others) I kept thinking “if only they had Christian values none of those people would’ve been hurt”