38% of Jeep Wranglers sold in the US in the first quarter of this year were 4XEs. The top two PHEVs in the US are the Wrangler 4XE and the Grand Cherokee 4XE. The 4XE is outselling the Prius Prime. I’m trying to figure out where the flop is.
On a 1600 mile excursion I did on my 4XE Rubicon, 260 miles of the 1600 were 100% full electric, only 75 miles were from charge ups, the rest came from max Regen. My average MPG for entire trip was average 26MPG which for all terrain 33’s is quite impressive
@@carltuckerson7718 wise decision you won’t regret it! I didn’t even mention how easy it is to pass people, even with a fully loaded Jeep in terms of cargo, you can quickly fly from 80 to 100mph to pass cars (it’s not a race car, but you got all you need, for when you need it) 375HP and 475lbs ft torque is no joke. Im going to upgrade to 37s, most folks running it on their 4XE say it’s hardly noticeable with all that instant torque. This 4XE Rubicon leaves very little to be desired, it checks off all the boxes.
I would get the 4XE, but in Connecticut after you factor in Eversource's "delivery charge" our rates are about $0.37 per kWh. If I did my calculations correctly, with our electric rates it's actually more per mile to run off electric than gas in CT.
I think the 4Xe is a great idea and I would consider buying one if they could get more than 22 miles on a full charge. I know it's not a full electric vehicle and I don't expect 200 miles on a small battery but 35 or 40 miles on full battery mode would get most people to and from work just on the battery and if they are more than 50 miles from work maybe they can top off the battery before they head home.
On a 1600 mile excursion I did on my 4XE Rubicon, 260 miles of the 1600 were 100% full electric, only 75 miles were from charge ups, the rest came from max Regen. My average MPG for entire trip was average 26MPG which for all terrain 33’s is quite impressive.
You can buy The Toyota Rav-4 Prime or The Lexus 450h; Plug in Hybrid. They both get 40 miles on a full EV Battery Charge and 36 MPG on gas. The downside is, they're much smaller in size than the Wrangler and Grand Cherokee 4XE.
@@BenHardyCars You could say the same about any vehicle that's available on multiple markets. It's ok though, we all know that the real reason you said "flop" is because negative and controversial videos get more views.
I totally agree with your analysis. In rural Canada, the 4xEs are not selling and sitting on dealers’ lots because of a combination of questionable reliability, poor plug-in infrastructure and the significant price difference ($10,000) between the V6 and hybrid models. I would only buy one if the price gap was greatly reduced between the V6 and 4xE.
I live near Vancouver, BC, and I have a 22' 4xe Rubicon. I fill my gas only when I go off roading. Everywhere I go in the city I use electric or hybrid. It is good for me. The reason why it is not selling as much as in the US is purely because the rebate is not as much as in the US. Also, FYI, I have it lifted and runs 37s... I went to whipsaw trail, jeepalooza, and have earned many infamous BC pinstripes.
I have a KIA Sorento PHEV with 32 electric range and have never used any other plug-in except my 220v in the garage. I charge it every day and if going on longer trips I'll put it in hybrid mode...
I drive about 25 miles a day. Assuming I don't find a recharge I have 20 petroleum free miles. I will drive about 900-1000 miles before filling up unless FORM is activated. Gas alone I average about 18.5 mpg. So I do my 25 miles and charge at home. Therefore that is about 200ish gas +800ish zap. My electric bill went up about $20 a month. I literally fill once a month unless I have a trip or need to burn off the FORM. If I can get 50 mile electric range it would be perfect (for me). Price? Expensive for a Jeep, yep. Are you really comparing a Niro with a Wrangler? My Rubicon 4xe was cheaper than normal Rubicon because of the tax credit. If you cannot take of the advantage of tax credit because of financial limitations or the preferred manner that you file either you may need to evaluate your vehicle choice or lease it. Leasing automatically gets the full credit because you are NOT the owner of the vehicle, the financer is. Finally, the 4xe with the proper easy settings is a beast and only bested by the 392. I pulled an F150 out of a rut. The torque is lovely oh and INSTANT. I has not forgotten it is still a Wrangler but it is not a simple vehicle anymore. Sorry dude, though the 4xe had some 'teething' problems (mine is a 1st run 2021) since its release in March of 21. Mine was built and bought in May. AND YES lots of updates and changes but that is expected of an early adopter. It has been the most useful and mostly issueless. It is not perfect but I knew what I was getting into. IT is NOT for everyone. This animal has been a sales success. 2025 the main rumors is that a redesigned support structure for battery (raising floor and putting the battery outside for emergency hydrogen relief venting?), larger battery (range?), and minor cosmetics. 2028, Wrangler split into to lines similar to JK and JKU split early on. The split will be J'x' (JM maybe?) and EJ for full electric; however, it will still have a range extender engine much like the forthcoming Ramcharger. The accessories and options are expected to be interchangeable and except cosmetics, the two should be near twins. Though it has been noted that there may be ONLY the EJ (which I am not sure the community will appreciate nor accept). Sorry for the rant but I have to respectfully disagree with you. I am sorry I had not seen this video earlier.
Just left the dealer and watch 3 4XE deals done. In California these are moving fast. By the way...i went to buy my lease out and got an appraisal... 62k....
I have both a wrangler and a gladiator. The problem I have with the 4xe is the ~$15k added to the sticker price. Not only that but my home state is part of the interstate climate compact so that means that dealers cannot sell 2 door wranglers or 2024 gladiators right now. A $55k gladiator is going to be $70k with the 4xe. That's going to turn away a lot of customers. In the mid sized truck market Jeep needs to really distinguish itself. On top of it all Jeep does their special colors in these tiny little ordering windows. Sleep too late one morning and you can't the Jeep in the special new color. There's so many things that they need to improve but they won't and just jacking up the price is going to kill the brand.
Anyone even thinking about purchasing this vehicle needs to understand this fact. The capacity of the battery of this vehicle is 17.3 kWh. To use Michigan as an example if you charge your vehicle during off peak times you’ll pay .16 per kilowatt hour. if you do the math that will cost you $2.76 to completely charge your battery. You’re going to get 22 miles for $2.76. It’s not even worth it to ever charge at a charger, other than your home. The average cost per Google at a charging station is $.45. That means if you charge your Jeep other than your home you’re going to pay $7.78 to go 22 miles.
There was a major recall on the 4xe. I had to drop my turd Ram 1500 eco diesel at the dealership. There was a tow truck operator that dropped off a 4xe jeep, he said it was the second he dropped off that week and a bunch a few weeks. Jeep's reliability scare me.
I love my Jeep because it really handles those tough grocery trips and running to the doctor and other places around town, I get really feel that nice suspension around town getting nine mpg
I don't believe the 4xE is a flop. It may be true they are not selling as fast as Stellantis wants but that is because the buyers who wanted the early and greatest models have already purchased them. I, for one, try not to buy the first out. I wait for updates and reliability reports. Even though I live 13 miles from a gas station and a grocery store I could just about make a round trip without using a drop of gas. Even if I drive 25 miles one way on electric and drive back the 25 miles on gas that means I would likely use only about a gallon of gas for 50 miles of driving. That is pretty good mileage. Long distance drives may be another issue but most people drive their Jeep to town or off road. When I am ready for a new vehicle I would definitely look at a Jeep 4xE .
2021 Wrangler 4xe owner here. Worst car I have ever owned. Battery pack malfunctioned and shut down on the highway, completely dead car out of nowhere with a christmas lights on the dash. It has 19,000 miles and NOTHING BUT ENGINE AND BATTERY PACK PROBLEMS. Horrific car.
First of, there is NOT a 4xe situation there’s only a 4xe MISINFORMATION. This vehicle is the best of the line up, but not for everyone. You need: a level 2 at home, be able to plug in at work. Commute distance
I have a 2021 Grand Cherokee SRT which i absolutely LOVE. there is nothing that appeals to me in the newest lineup. 4xe is something that nobody asked for or wanted. In Canada its around several thousand dollars more to upgrade to. Whats the point ? What gas am i saving if im having to fork over a big chunk of change right off the bat ? If they made à Trackhawk with the Hellcat engine in the newest body style id be buying it tomorrow
Sales numbers don’t exactly say it “flopped.” It is somewhat problematic and not that efficient, on top of them all being very high priced. But I guess they have to start somewhere, right?
I’ve got the 2024 Willy’s 4xe it’s truly amazing and I love it and it’s my 5th Jeep and since I’m not on food stamps I can buy any vehicle I may choose
The new Jeep/Ram/Dodge all have that lousy new Uconnect5. After enduring it for only 6 months in a new 2023 Jeep Grand Cherolkee L Limited, we got rid of it and traded it back in for a new Cherokee Trailhawk with good, old Uconnect4. JD Power reduced its ratings for Dodge Ram due to the Uconnect5. I would avoid it at all costs!
Just get a level 2 home charger. Gas is around $4.50/gal. It’s going to be over $5.00 soon. The real question is Why is there no standard charging stations?
4xe wranglers and GC are selling like hot cakes...what are you talking about? There are everywhere and if you lease them, Jeep gives you $15000 in federal and state rebates and then an additional 5-8% dealer discount. You can lease a 70K rubicon X for $409 a month before taxes. Its a no brainer. The price is not the issue. Nothing is the issue. The fact is, Jeep is selling a TON of these every day.
The government rebate or whatever is why they charge more, otherwise manufacturers would find ways charge less for electric. It's colusion between the govt and manufacturers.
the only way you get that 375 horsepower is if you are in four-wheel drive high when both electric and gas are used together for 20 miles.. that all... the 4cly is 260 hp and the electric is 160 hp... it's a turd after 20 miles.. my 6 cly jk out preforms it.. 285 hp all days long..
I completely agree with not only making the different power train options closer in cost, but they should absolutely work on fitting the hurricane engine in other vehicles besides the wagoneer. That also goes for the Gladiator, that definitely needs the hurricane engine and the 5.7 as an option 👍
I’m considering buying a 4xE bd 98% of my driving is within 5-10 miles of my house. I COULD go months without buying a drop of gas. The only thing that has me questioning it is the plethora of TH-cam vids saying bad things about it. But there are plenty saying they love it too. So…
Reliability. Thats the reason not to get the 4xe. If Jeep fixes reliability (hopefully they do), then I would say the 4xe would be a good buy and here's why. The horsepower and torque. Approximately 15% of the battery is reserved for hybrid mode where the electric motor will be available for starts, passing etc. even though the battery may be less than 1%. So from a power standpoint, it's an excent choice powertrain for that reason. The fact that you can get up to ~21 miles on electric power alone is a bonus. Adding horsepower and torque to an engine costs a lot. You could add a supercharger to the 3.6 for about the same price as the 4xe upgrade but you wouldn't get as much horsepower or torque that the 4xe has. On the flip side, the highway mileage suffers do to the added weight of the battery, motor etc. and I do believe the 4xe is overpriced. I, like many, value reliability over horsepower and torque. I don't want to be stranded especially when offroading and I sure don't want to pay a premium for something that is unreliable.
I bought a 4xe rubicon, prices was similar to the rubicon v6. Plus the tax credits and fuel economy is a no brainer. My commute to work is 22 miles round trips. So a full tank of gas last me almost 700-800miles.
I agree with you 100%. Although I'm afraid of what's to come down the road in maintenance cost for the 4xe. Thus why I'm considering the v6 rubi. What are you're thoughts? since you own a 4xe. Looking for some insights as I'm unsure which way to go....Currently drive a 2015 Wrangler Sahara. Thank you.
I've REALLY loved my 4Xe experience! Had a 2021 Sahara 4Xe...loved it. Absolutely no issues. Upgraded to a 2023 Rubicon 4Xe. Got the $7500 Fed credit plus $1500 state credit immediately by leasing, which lowers the overall price if/when I decide to buy. Had one big issue early on, but Jeep went out of their way to take care of it very quickly and upgraded my warranty to address any future concerns. Installed a level 2 charger at home, so I'm good with a full charge in just over 2 hours. YES...having the PHEV has taught me that the charging infrastructure needs a LOT of improvement before I'd consider a fully electric vehicle - thank goodness I've got the ICE as well! Ben...I think the BEST combination would be to have a 4Xe AND a 392! You KNOW you would want to drive the 392 all the time, but when you're tired of paying a fortune to fill it up...drive around on some electric power for a while...
Completely disagree with your take on charging infrastructure for this vehicle. Frankly it’s irrelevant on a vehicle with only level 2, no one is waiting over two hours to continue their journey for only 21 miles of range. I own a PHEV Outlander and have only used the DC fast charging a few times and it’s only 20 minutes to charge. The whole idea behind PHEV is to do the daily errands/ trip to work and plug in at night. Are you sitting around waiting 12 hours?
Yes, the 4xE is such a flop that I just bought TWO Sahara 4xEs last month for my wife and I. I shopped around and looked at every PHEV on the market and the Wrangler won hands down. Daily driving on just electric? Check. Smooth hybrid experience with no lag between electric assist and gas? Check. Perfect as an off-road vehicle or a mall crawler? Check. I encourage anyone on the fence to go test drive and use all 3 of the modes in both city and highway traffic (and maybe a bumpy dirt road if you can find one!) They are great.
i was deciding on a 2024 jeep wrangler sahara gas or the 4xe but ended up placing an order the the gas…. basically too costly and to much inconvenience with charging and getting only 22 miles electric range…. the 4xe is about $8,500 more and i will need to install the fast charger for about $1,500…. i’m both fortunate to make good enough money but unfortunate to qualify for any tax rebate and only way get get the $7,500 is thru leasing/finance but i’m paying all cash…. i drive only about 11k miles per year…. i’ll drive the gas now and wait a few more years when the price comes down more and the tech gets more perfected…
Bought a '21 Grand Cherokee V6 Trailhawk new in Feb. 2021 for $42.5k (MSRP $48.9k). Now these are only available in 4XE and will set you back almost $70k. I feel very fortunate to buy when I did. I realize the new ones are nicer but I have a lot more confidence in the reliability of the one I bought.
absolutley hate 4 cyl engines but i must say this one is great and combined with the hybrid i was down right shocked at the performance and sprint of this jeep .the 3.6 does not hold a candle to this powrtrain ....
It's because nobody knew about it. I just found out this car existed today and I love jeeps and I love hybrids. This was the biggest fumble on marketing I've ever seen.
I bought a 2023 4xe. Over the winter (I’m in Albuquerque where lows are in 20's highs around 40*) and I would get 20 miles in electric only. Now at the end of May I consistently get 27 miles on a charge. I have a level two charger and I never need the gas engine but I do run the gas motor purposely every week. 3000 miles and only a half tank of gas used. Electricity cost is .08 cents per kWh a fully charged battery is $1 from empty. I spend $150 a month less on gas/electric than before. I know I only have 3000 miles on it but it has been an excellent vehicle.
That's just like, your opinion man. I disagree and also the $7500 federal tax credit is not a schedule C claim, you get the full $7500 no matter your income/deductibles. So this is a weird opinion based on a small pool of anecdotes, personal bias, and misinformation.
This video was a flop. No real facts and primarily personal opinions. It’s almost like he needed to justify a reason to own a 392 lol! The 392 is a beast no doubt, but the was a straight up rant with the same argument said 5 different times in 5 different ways
8:45 - We’ve run several polls in the Jeep 4XE Fans group. While there are people that have issues, the percentage of people is somewhat low. We hear a lot of stories because there are just so many of these on the road. People who have issues will say something about their experience where those of us that have no issues don’t make posts saying “My Jeep is running great.”
I have over 50,000 miles on my 2021 4xe and enjoy it. The charging infrastructure is more there than you realize. Once you know what chargers locally to depend on and what apps to use, it seriously isn’t that bad. Also one of my previous cars was a Bmw i3, so I have been utilizing public charging for years before the 4xe was released. As far as the reliability, all but 1 issue I have had with my Jeep are because of the absolute garbage 2.0t engine that’s in it. Jeep should have used the v6 in it. Please get your facts straight before spreading misinformation.
I build these and I could not figure out for the life of me why, I kept telling co workers " either I want to plug it in or put gas in it but not both ' not sure why our engineers could not figure out how to charge the battery using the engine like Ford did with the hybrid fusions I had one for a rental car and that thing was awesome the 4xe makes no sense to me but that's what happens when you have a French company running your designs if the French knew how to build cars they would have been in the U.S. car market a long time ago and not had to buy there way in with the purchase of Chrysler things I've seen them do makes no sense to me they need to start listening to consumers if there going to succeed.
Kind of funny that how AMC got taken over by Renault, which ended up getting bought by Chrysler, which got taken on by Daimler, which got taken over by Fiat, which got taken back by the French with Stellantis, just one big decades long circle that’s probably going to kill a another American car company. Which sucks since my family’s been buying Dodges and Rams for a long time.
I have a '23 Willys edition. You absolutely can charge the HV battery with the engine, so I am not sure where you got your information, especially since you say you build them.
Jeep's powertrain lineup is weak. In a Grand Cherokee, I wouldn't want the underpowered overworked V6, you can't get the V8 (try to find a V8 or build one, you can't) and don't want to pay for a plug-in hybrid. = no sale.
4xe biggest problems are price and competitiveness with other PHEVs. The range isn't terrible but it's not great, and the mpg outside of pure electric is actually really bad compared to other PHEVs. It might be an improvement over other jeeps but that's not saying much. Also a kia niro phev is more like 35k, not 40. Most PHEVs are unfortunately not in good supply so are getting dealer markups still, outside of the 4xe. Stealerships ruining something else, surprise surprise.
I have a Trailhawk 4xe... only thing I have hated about it is I had that Trailhawk front end clunk for about 4 months... after it was resolved and remains fine then Ill be pretty happy with my 4xe. I have some videos I made comparing the V6 vs V8 vs 4xe 0-60's and the 4xe does haul some ass. But I agree the PHEV is a specific customer based powertrain... if you don't work within its electric range, limited charging at home capabilities and expect "hybrid" mileage, you might have to reconsider.
It's just a learning curve. Turn off regen unless your driving down long hilly terrain using your brakes constantly. When you push on ignition. immediately press economy mode button every time, because E-power will stay at around 95%. The Jeep is learning the most efficient way to drive. When updates come the vehicle rides smoother and smoother, and you hear the engine less and less. It's the most fuel efficient vehicle we own. It has more power than they are releasing at present, an so, when battery tech improves, so will the power and fuel economy. Some days it feels like we are hurdling through space and time.... Now when the MAGNETO comes!
I'm in Illinois and it's hard to even find a 4xe Wrangler on dealer lots in some places. Of the Jeep dealers by me two of the dealers don't have any 4xe's on their lots. There are several stores any hospitals that have public charging though.
What I read online that the 4xe was the best selling plug in hybrid in America and it's 40% of all jeep sales. Im I wrong ? Or Ben does't know what he's talking about ? I agree that it's overpriced for what it is just like any other jeep or truck, but with the federal tax credit of 7500 and state credit of 3000 dollars thats a 10500 dollars off the msrp and with that while its still expensive but competative with the other models
I think the old e-torque had that mild hybrid and was essentially free. By making it a distinct model, they tried to create a market where one did not necessarily exist. A market of an expensive vehicle that is available on top of n already expensive vehicle.
There's is a bit of anti 4xe/PHEV mythology in this video. One thing for sure is the $7,500+ tax incentive made Jeep price these vehicles higher than they should have. The Rubicon 4xe has a mark-up, but the Rubicon was already a marked up trim, the Sahara 4xe was the same to a similarly equipped 3.6/2.0 Sahara. A PHEV is meant to charge primarily at home, not hunting around for chargers, so if the vast majority of your driving isn't covered by the range, then it's not much financial benefit, also if gas is cheap in your area vs electric, then there might be no financial benefit to a PHEV, but we are supposed to be buying these gas guzzlers to save the planet, so the government was subsidizing them, and people rushed in, now they don't qualify for the subsidies and as expected people are not going to buy them, for rhe reasons i stated above.
I live in Northern California and the Jeep 4Xe don't sell well at all. I think the basic problem is the cost of the Jeep. They are just not worth the asking and/or marked up price. The V6 sells well. Very informative video. Thanks Ben!
If you lease, Chrysler capital passes the $7500 on directly to the consumer. It doesn't matter what you make. You get the instant rebate from FCA before you even leave the lot.
I rented one of these in Hawaii this past week and I loved it! Lots of power and great gas mileage. I tried charging it at my VRBO, but I blew a breaker the second night and thought I better not do that any more. I would buy one of these if I were in the market for a new vehicle...
Love my Sahara 4Xe bought for 62k July 2022. Now I can get a 2024 same model plus the new bigger entertainment screen for 49-50k. I guess I should have bought a Toyota if I wanted it to hold on to any value. 🤷🏼♂️
do these 4xE's make sense? You save a gallon of gas a day 4 bucks. But you spend that charging the car for 12 hours right? Has to be close... Then with the extra 800 pounds you get only 20 mpg and I got that with the V6 usually at a min.
EV’s are useless without a charging network. But, one the electricity needed for them, still come from coal and oil production. Two, our electrical power grid cannot support a large amount of EV’s. It’s ignorant to push these on people. Plus, why would you want electric in an true off-road vehicle? Unless your definition of “off-road” means parking on the grass in your yard. 🤣 And yes, I own a Jeep.
I love hybrids but doubt I would buy the 4xe because its been so problematic, plus it needs to get more electric range. I would like to buy a willys in the 4 cylinder no hybrid.
In NY their taking 14k of price in incentives right now looking at a willy 4xe never had electric not even a fan but they dont even have gas ones and with the incentives the 4xe is cheaper. Not for nothing there is more power from the 4xe then the v6
Jeep people. Want a wrangler 2door, no extras, no carpet with lockers. dont want to spend 50,000. They forgot about the people who built their empire.😢
38% of Jeep Wranglers sold in the US in the first quarter of this year were 4XEs. The top two PHEVs in the US are the Wrangler 4XE and the Grand Cherokee 4XE. The 4XE is outselling the Prius Prime. I’m trying to figure out where the flop is.
Clickbait
Ben and savagegeese love to poop on the 4XE for some reason. If they were birds, the 4XE would be my mailbox.
Yeah, not sure what this guy is on about? I see them everywhere now. This kind of content is how you get unsubbed.
@@Koulson_ Would you happen to have some dealer names and locations? We have people in the 4XE Fans group that are looking.
@@Koulson_ LIAR
On a 1600 mile excursion I did on my 4XE Rubicon, 260 miles of the 1600 were 100% full electric, only 75 miles were from charge ups, the rest came from max Regen. My average MPG for entire trip was average 26MPG which for all terrain 33’s is quite impressive
Also the times that I charged up, were free at the hotel 😂, people have no idea what they’re missing out on
Thanks for the actual information. I have a 2021 JL Rubi but I’m going to get the 2024 4xe Rubi
@@carltuckerson7718 wise decision you won’t regret it! I didn’t even mention how easy it is to pass people, even with a fully loaded Jeep in terms of cargo, you can quickly fly from 80 to 100mph to pass cars (it’s not a race car, but you got all you need, for when you need it) 375HP and 475lbs ft torque is no joke. Im going to upgrade to 37s, most folks running it on their 4XE say it’s hardly noticeable with all that instant torque. This 4XE Rubicon leaves very little to be desired, it checks off all the boxes.
You must have been driving very slow. The 4xe rubi does not even get close to that at a comfortable 75mph
Proof or cap
I would get the 4XE, but in Connecticut after you factor in Eversource's "delivery charge" our rates are about $0.37 per kWh. If I did my calculations correctly, with our electric rates it's actually more per mile to run off electric than gas in CT.
I think the 4Xe is a great idea and I would consider buying one if they could get more than 22 miles on a full charge. I know it's not a full electric vehicle and I don't expect 200 miles on a small battery but 35 or 40 miles on full battery mode would get most people to and from work just on the battery and if they are more than 50 miles from work maybe they can top off the battery before they head home.
On a 1600 mile excursion I did on my 4XE Rubicon, 260 miles of the 1600 were 100% full electric, only 75 miles were from charge ups, the rest came from max Regen. My average MPG for entire trip was average 26MPG which for all terrain 33’s is quite impressive.
Yes, they need to up that to at least 32 mile range!
You can buy The Toyota Rav-4 Prime or The Lexus 450h; Plug in Hybrid. They both get 40 miles on a full EV Battery Charge and 36 MPG on gas. The downside is, they're much smaller in size than the Wrangler and Grand Cherokee 4XE.
What do you mean by "flop" exactly? 38% of Wranglers sold in Q1 2023 were 4xe's, and it's consistently been the #1 selling PHEV on the US market.
They are doing well in some markets and not well in other markets
@@BenHardyCars lol... the auto market is the auto market. The shits are selling like hot cakes
@@BenHardyCars yet overall, i.e. across the different regions - on a national scale - this vehicle has not been a flop, but a hit.
@@BenHardyCars You could say the same about any vehicle that's available on multiple markets. It's ok though, we all know that the real reason you said "flop" is because negative and controversial videos get more views.
I totally agree with your analysis. In rural Canada, the 4xEs are not selling and sitting on dealers’ lots because of a combination of questionable reliability, poor plug-in infrastructure and the significant price difference ($10,000) between the V6 and hybrid models. I would only buy one if the price gap was greatly reduced between the V6 and 4xE.
In my city, these stupid things sell for a whopping $55,000. Nope, not interested at all. And the reliability is CRAP.
I live near Vancouver, BC, and I have a 22' 4xe Rubicon. I fill my gas only when I go off roading. Everywhere I go in the city I use electric or hybrid. It is good for me.
The reason why it is not selling as much as in the US is purely because the rebate is not as much as in the US.
Also, FYI, I have it lifted and runs 37s... I went to whipsaw trail, jeepalooza, and have earned many infamous BC pinstripes.
I have a KIA Sorento PHEV with 32 electric range and have never used any other plug-in except my 220v in the garage. I charge it every day and if going on longer trips I'll put it in hybrid mode...
Wife is looking at the 4xe. Lease with rebates seems like the way to go. I see new 2022's still on lots.
The deals is even better now. I got one for 499
I drive about 25 miles a day. Assuming I don't find a recharge I have 20 petroleum free miles. I will drive about 900-1000 miles before filling up unless FORM is activated. Gas alone I average about 18.5 mpg. So I do my 25 miles and charge at home. Therefore that is about 200ish gas +800ish zap. My electric bill went up about $20 a month. I literally fill once a month unless I have a trip or need to burn off the FORM. If I can get 50 mile electric range it would be perfect (for me).
Price? Expensive for a Jeep, yep. Are you really comparing a Niro with a Wrangler? My Rubicon 4xe was cheaper than normal Rubicon because of the tax credit. If you cannot take of the advantage of tax credit because of financial limitations or the preferred manner that you file either you may need to evaluate your vehicle choice or lease it. Leasing automatically gets the full credit because you are NOT the owner of the vehicle, the financer is.
Finally, the 4xe with the proper easy settings is a beast and only bested by the 392. I pulled an F150 out of a rut. The torque is lovely oh and INSTANT. I has not forgotten it is still a Wrangler but it is not a simple vehicle anymore.
Sorry dude, though the 4xe had some 'teething' problems (mine is a 1st run 2021) since its release in March of 21. Mine was built and bought in May. AND YES lots of updates and changes but that is expected of an early adopter. It has been the most useful and mostly issueless. It is not perfect but I knew what I was getting into. IT is NOT for everyone. This animal has been a sales success.
2025 the main rumors is that a redesigned support structure for battery (raising floor and putting the battery outside for emergency hydrogen relief venting?), larger battery (range?), and minor cosmetics.
2028, Wrangler split into to lines similar to JK and JKU split early on. The split will be J'x' (JM maybe?) and EJ for full electric; however, it will still have a range extender engine much like the forthcoming Ramcharger. The accessories and options are expected to be interchangeable and except cosmetics, the two should be near twins. Though it has been noted that there may be ONLY the EJ (which I am not sure the community will appreciate nor accept).
Sorry for the rant but I have to respectfully disagree with you. I am sorry I had not seen this video earlier.
Yeah the reason why is that Jeep prices have gone thru the roof. The Durango 392 cost less than a 392 wrangler. Why?
I think your point about price is spot on. Plus considering how short a distance you can travel in electric only.
Just left the dealer and watch 3 4XE deals done. In California these are moving fast. By the way...i went to buy my lease out and got an appraisal... 62k....
I have both a wrangler and a gladiator. The problem I have with the 4xe is the ~$15k added to the sticker price. Not only that but my home state is part of the interstate climate compact so that means that dealers cannot sell 2 door wranglers or 2024 gladiators right now. A $55k gladiator is going to be $70k with the 4xe. That's going to turn away a lot of customers. In the mid sized truck market Jeep needs to really distinguish itself. On top of it all Jeep does their special colors in these tiny little ordering windows. Sleep too late one morning and you can't the Jeep in the special new color. There's so many things that they need to improve but they won't and just jacking up the price is going to kill the brand.
Anyone even thinking about purchasing this vehicle needs to understand this fact. The capacity of the battery of this vehicle is 17.3 kWh. To use Michigan as an example if you charge your vehicle during off peak times you’ll pay .16 per kilowatt hour. if you do the math that will cost you $2.76 to completely charge your battery. You’re going to get 22 miles for $2.76. It’s not even worth it to ever charge at a charger, other than your home. The average cost per Google at a charging station is $.45. That means if you charge your Jeep other than your home you’re going to pay $7.78 to go 22 miles.
There was a major recall on the 4xe. I had to drop my turd Ram 1500 eco diesel at the dealership. There was a tow truck operator that dropped off a 4xe jeep, he said it was the second he dropped off that week and a bunch a few weeks. Jeep's reliability scare me.
Stellantis doesn t know their market and they are failing terribly.
The gambled in a product that people might want. Sometimes in doing so it's a winning formula.
@@brokeboy87 they are failing this brand getting rid of Mopar and the Hemi without an immediate replacement is a fool's errand.
I love my Jeep because it really handles those tough grocery trips and running to the doctor and other places around town, I get really feel that nice suspension around town getting nine mpg
14*
Yeah, over 14 mpg
And the go anywhere, through rain 🌧 sleet or snow
It's reassuring that I can obtain my Häagen-Dazs in any weather
I'm confused about where you're getting data about these claims.
I don't believe the 4xE is a flop. It may be true they are not selling as fast as Stellantis wants but that is because the buyers who wanted the early and greatest models have already purchased them. I, for one, try not to buy the first out. I wait for updates and reliability reports. Even though I live 13 miles from a gas station and a grocery store I could just about make a round trip without using a drop of gas. Even if I drive 25 miles one way on electric and drive back the 25 miles on gas that means I would likely use only about a gallon of gas for 50 miles of driving. That is pretty good mileage. Long distance drives may be another issue but most people drive their Jeep to town or off road. When I am ready for a new vehicle I would definitely look at a Jeep 4xE .
2021 Wrangler 4xe owner here. Worst car I have ever owned. Battery pack malfunctioned and shut down on the highway, completely dead car out of nowhere with a christmas lights on the dash. It has 19,000 miles and NOTHING BUT ENGINE AND BATTERY PACK PROBLEMS. Horrific car.
First of, there is NOT a 4xe situation there’s only a 4xe MISINFORMATION. This vehicle is the best of the line up, but not for everyone. You need: a level 2 at home, be able to plug in at work. Commute distance
Why people keep dumping on the V6. It's good for what it is. Not everyone wants neck snapping torque.
I have a 2021 Grand Cherokee SRT which i absolutely LOVE. there is nothing that appeals to me in the newest lineup. 4xe is something that nobody asked for or wanted. In Canada its around several thousand dollars more to upgrade to. Whats the point ? What gas am i saving if im having to fork over a big chunk of change right off the bat ? If they made à Trackhawk with the Hellcat engine in the newest body style id be buying it tomorrow
Sales numbers don’t exactly say it “flopped.” It is somewhat problematic and not that efficient, on top of them all being very high priced. But I guess they have to start somewhere, right?
I’ve got the 2024 Willy’s 4xe it’s truly amazing and I love it and it’s my 5th Jeep and since I’m not on food stamps I can buy any vehicle I may choose
The new Jeep/Ram/Dodge all have that lousy new Uconnect5. After enduring it for only 6 months in a new 2023 Jeep Grand Cherolkee L Limited, we got rid of it and traded it back in for a new Cherokee Trailhawk with good, old Uconnect4. JD Power reduced its ratings for Dodge Ram due to the Uconnect5. I would avoid it at all costs!
Just get a level 2 home charger. Gas is around $4.50/gal. It’s going to be over $5.00 soon. The real question is Why is there no standard charging stations?
4xe wranglers and GC are selling like hot cakes...what are you talking about? There are everywhere and if you lease them, Jeep gives you $15000 in federal and state rebates and then an additional 5-8% dealer discount. You can lease a 70K rubicon X for $409 a month before taxes. Its a no brainer. The price is not the issue. Nothing is the issue. The fact is, Jeep is selling a TON of these every day.
The government rebate or whatever is why they charge more, otherwise manufacturers would find ways charge less for electric. It's colusion between the govt and manufacturers.
I think its word of mouth being negative. I'm about to order a 2024. Based on the Pinnacle minivan we bought, I want the 4xe.
the only way you get that 375 horsepower is if you are in four-wheel drive high when both electric and gas are used together for 20 miles.. that all... the 4cly is 260 hp and the electric is 160 hp... it's a turd after 20 miles.. my 6 cly jk out preforms it.. 285 hp all days long..
I didn’t buy it. Keeping my 2021 3.6L w eTorque
I completely agree with not only making the different power train options closer in cost, but they should absolutely work on fitting the hurricane engine in other vehicles besides the wagoneer. That also goes for the Gladiator, that definitely needs the hurricane engine and the 5.7 as an option 👍
I thought the 4xe sales were strong.
@@GT-43 They are. Ben doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about
the 2024 wrangler allready has a updated interrior
I got 1100 miles out of the 1st tank
I’m considering buying a 4xE bd 98% of my driving is within 5-10 miles of my house. I COULD go months without buying a drop of gas. The only thing that has me questioning it is the plethora of TH-cam vids saying bad things about it. But there are plenty saying they love it too. So…
I traded a 2021 Lexus GX460 for a 2021 Jeep Rubicon 4xe when gas hit five dollars a gallon.
They should of did a diesel hybrid
So basically your issues are with PHEV’s … not much 4xe power trains.
Lol! This dude has no idea what he’s talking about! None!
Reliability. Thats the reason not to get the 4xe. If Jeep fixes reliability (hopefully they do), then I would say the 4xe would be a good buy and here's why. The horsepower and torque. Approximately 15% of the battery is reserved for hybrid mode where the electric motor will be available for starts, passing etc. even though the battery may be less than 1%. So from a power standpoint, it's an excent choice powertrain for that reason. The fact that you can get up to ~21 miles on electric power alone is a bonus.
Adding horsepower and torque to an engine costs a lot. You could add a supercharger to the 3.6 for about the same price as the 4xe upgrade but you wouldn't get as much horsepower or torque that the 4xe has. On the flip side, the highway mileage suffers do to the added weight of the battery, motor etc. and I do believe the 4xe is overpriced. I, like many, value reliability over horsepower and torque. I don't want to be stranded especially when offroading and I sure don't want to pay a premium for something that is unreliable.
Not suitable for car stealth camping (battery bump)
I just want something reliable so I went with the v6 standard in my 2023. 4xe is a cool concept to me but it needs time to mature.
Ben’s next video: Why Lamborghini’s are too slow.
It's really simple just follow Toyota hybrid is the way to go
Too expensive
You can’t be a jeep enthusiast and have a constructive discussion
It’s too expensive
Until jerp figures this one out, the Rav-4 prine has no competition.
The 4xe power train was developed due to political pressure, with the 50% price increase in 5 years, that is why the sales drop.
It's a jeep.
I’m a 2023 eco diesel owner. I’m eating popcorn watching this video. 🥱
I bought a 4xe rubicon, prices was similar to the rubicon v6. Plus the tax credits and fuel economy is a no brainer. My commute to work is 22 miles round trips. So a full tank of gas last me almost 700-800miles.
I agree with you 100%. Although I'm afraid of what's to come down the road in maintenance cost for the 4xe. Thus why I'm considering the v6 rubi. What are you're thoughts? since you own a 4xe. Looking for some insights as I'm unsure which way to go....Currently drive a 2015 Wrangler Sahara. Thank you.
How much did you get back on your tax return for having the hybrid?
@@mcwendel8066 I got 7,500 in tax credits.
@@MickeyFi1ms maintenance in all EVS or hybrids are costly. Is the price we pay to save on gas and have a fun jeep. Lol
@@mcwendel8066 I got $3750(goes up to 7K) but I think it varies by state and income
Around where I live in the Midwest these are extremely popular. I see more and more every day. Especially the high altitude trim
Midwest here. I want high altitude.
I've REALLY loved my 4Xe experience! Had a 2021 Sahara 4Xe...loved it. Absolutely no issues. Upgraded to a 2023 Rubicon 4Xe. Got the $7500 Fed credit plus $1500 state credit immediately by leasing, which lowers the overall price if/when I decide to buy. Had one big issue early on, but Jeep went out of their way to take care of it very quickly and upgraded my warranty to address any future concerns. Installed a level 2 charger at home, so I'm good with a full charge in just over 2 hours. YES...having the PHEV has taught me that the charging infrastructure needs a LOT of improvement before I'd consider a fully electric vehicle - thank goodness I've got the ICE as well! Ben...I think the BEST combination would be to have a 4Xe AND a 392! You KNOW you would want to drive the 392 all the time, but when you're tired of paying a fortune to fill it up...drive around on some electric power for a while...
What’s ICE?
@@steware Internal Combustion Engine
Taxpayers are tired of paying for this green bullshit. They need to end subsidies. If you like it, then buy with your own money.
How is the number 1 selling PHEV on the market a sales flop? Also, how does this clickbait king have 256K subscribers?
cuz he's the king
Completely disagree with your take on charging infrastructure for this vehicle. Frankly it’s irrelevant on a vehicle with only level 2, no one is waiting over two hours to continue their journey for only 21 miles of range. I own a PHEV Outlander and have only used the DC fast charging a few times and it’s only 20 minutes to charge. The whole idea behind PHEV is to do the daily errands/ trip to work and plug in at night. Are you sitting around waiting 12 hours?
Yes, the 4xE is such a flop that I just bought TWO Sahara 4xEs last month for my wife and I. I shopped around and looked at every PHEV on the market and the Wrangler won hands down. Daily driving on just electric? Check. Smooth hybrid experience with no lag between electric assist and gas? Check. Perfect as an off-road vehicle or a mall crawler? Check. I encourage anyone on the fence to go test drive and use all 3 of the modes in both city and highway traffic (and maybe a bumpy dirt road if you can find one!) They are great.
i was deciding on a 2024 jeep wrangler sahara gas or the 4xe but ended up placing an order the the gas…. basically too costly and to much inconvenience with charging and getting only 22 miles electric range…. the 4xe is about $8,500 more and i will need to install the fast charger for about $1,500…. i’m both fortunate to make good enough money but unfortunate to qualify for any tax rebate and only way get get the $7,500 is thru leasing/finance but i’m paying all cash…. i drive only about 11k miles per year…. i’ll drive the gas now and wait a few more years when the price comes down more and the tech gets more perfected…
At work I know four people that love there 4XE. One had the death wobble which was fixed under warranty. They seem very happy with there Jeep
Bought a '21 Grand Cherokee V6 Trailhawk new in Feb. 2021 for $42.5k (MSRP $48.9k). Now these are only available in 4XE and will set you back almost $70k. I feel very fortunate to buy when I did. I realize the new ones are nicer but I have a lot more confidence in the reliability of the one I bought.
These are wildly popular here in southern CA. Just got a rubicon 4xE and now I’m looking at getting a grand Cherokee 4xE
I'm in northern Cali and I rarely see these things.
That’s why they will keep building them for Cali dealers
@@BenHardyCars I commented before you mentioned that which makes sense why dealers have 40-90 of each grand Cherokee 4xE and wrangler 4xE models
Same here. Huntington Beach
It was the top hybrid electric vehicle for sales. I don't agree with you.
The 4 cylinder is what turned me away from the 4xe I prefer V6 engines so I think the hurricane engine in Jeeps are a good idea
absolutley hate 4 cyl engines but i must say this one is great and combined with the hybrid i was down right shocked at the performance and sprint of this jeep .the 3.6 does not hold a candle to this powrtrain ....
It's because nobody knew about it. I just found out this car existed today and I love jeeps and I love hybrids. This was the biggest fumble on marketing I've ever seen.
I bought a 2023 4xe. Over the winter (I’m in Albuquerque where lows are in 20's highs around 40*) and I would get 20 miles in electric only. Now at the end of May I consistently get 27 miles on a charge. I have a level two charger and I never need the gas engine but I do run the gas motor purposely every week. 3000 miles and only a half tank of gas used. Electricity cost is .08 cents per kWh a fully charged battery is $1 from empty. I spend $150 a month less on gas/electric than before. I know I only have 3000 miles on it but it has been an excellent vehicle.
That's just like, your opinion man. I disagree and also the $7500 federal tax credit is not a schedule C claim, you get the full $7500 no matter your income/deductibles. So this is a weird opinion based on a small pool of anecdotes, personal bias, and misinformation.
This video was a flop. No real facts and primarily personal opinions. It’s almost like he needed to justify a reason to own a 392 lol! The 392 is a beast no doubt, but the was a straight up rant with the same argument said 5 different times in 5 different ways
8:45 - We’ve run several polls in the Jeep 4XE Fans group. While there are people that have issues, the percentage of people is somewhat low. We hear a lot of stories because there are just so many of these on the road. People who have issues will say something about their experience where those of us that have no issues don’t make posts saying “My Jeep is running great.”
hey....looking into buying one. How are the polls today?
@@willc2426It’s been about the same but we have had a run on battery replacements on some 2021s.
@@Wrangler4XEFans thank you!
2 main reasons: Its way too expensive and its a complicated mess.
I have over 50,000 miles on my 2021 4xe and enjoy it. The charging infrastructure is more there than you realize. Once you know what chargers locally to depend on and what apps to use, it seriously isn’t that bad. Also one of my previous cars was a Bmw i3, so I have been utilizing public charging for years before the 4xe was released. As far as the reliability, all but 1 issue I have had with my Jeep are because of the absolute garbage 2.0t engine that’s in it. Jeep should have used the v6 in it. Please get your facts straight before spreading misinformation.
The sole flop in this video is the apparent recall of your beard and mustache trimmer.
I build these and I could not figure out for the life of me why, I kept telling co workers " either I want to plug it in or put gas in it but not both ' not sure why our engineers could not figure out how to charge the battery using the engine like Ford did with the hybrid fusions I had one for a rental car and that thing was awesome the 4xe makes no sense to me but that's what happens when you have a French company running your designs if the French knew how to build cars they would have been in the U.S. car market a long time ago and not had to buy there way in with the purchase of Chrysler things I've seen them do makes no sense to me they need to start listening to consumers if there going to succeed.
Kind of funny that how AMC got taken over by Renault, which ended up getting bought by Chrysler, which got taken on by Daimler, which got taken over by Fiat, which got taken back by the French with Stellantis, just one big decades long circle that’s probably going to kill a another American car company. Which sucks since my family’s been buying Dodges and Rams for a long time.
I have a '23 Willys edition. You absolutely can charge the HV battery with the engine, so I am not sure where you got your information, especially since you say you build them.
@@SilverFoxCooking
Also….. what is he talking about?
The plug in hybrid is the way to go …. One or the other? What?
Jeep's powertrain lineup is weak. In a Grand Cherokee, I wouldn't want the underpowered overworked V6, you can't get the V8 (try to find a V8 or build one, you can't) and don't want to pay for a plug-in hybrid. = no sale.
I’m waiting for the 4xe Gladiator to come out
4xe biggest problems are price and competitiveness with other PHEVs. The range isn't terrible but it's not great, and the mpg outside of pure electric is actually really bad compared to other PHEVs. It might be an improvement over other jeeps but that's not saying much.
Also a kia niro phev is more like 35k, not 40. Most PHEVs are unfortunately not in good supply so are getting dealer markups still, outside of the 4xe. Stealerships ruining something else, surprise surprise.
I have a Trailhawk 4xe... only thing I have hated about it is I had that Trailhawk front end clunk for about 4 months... after it was resolved and remains fine then Ill be pretty happy with my 4xe. I have some videos I made comparing the V6 vs V8 vs 4xe 0-60's and the 4xe does haul some ass. But I agree the PHEV is a specific customer based powertrain... if you don't work within its electric range, limited charging at home capabilities and expect "hybrid" mileage, you might have to reconsider.
Yeah its really a half baked idea. 25 miles on a charge is a joke. And then you will need to pay for a fast charger in your garage. No thanks.
It's just a learning curve. Turn off regen unless your driving down long hilly terrain using your brakes constantly. When you push on ignition. immediately press economy mode button every time, because E-power will stay at around 95%. The Jeep is learning the most efficient way to drive. When updates come the vehicle rides smoother and smoother, and you hear the engine less and less. It's the most fuel efficient vehicle we own. It has more power than they are releasing at present, an so, when battery tech improves, so will the power and fuel economy. Some days it feels like we are hurdling through space and time.... Now when the MAGNETO comes!
Dude pull this video down. You are absolutely wrong. The 4xe is the #1 selling plugin hybrid
Bunch of fake news.
Jeep prices are too high, im waiting for the new Tacoma
Jeeps are too expensive. Bet they would sell more if they drop the prices
Hey Ben, Apparently you were the only person that does not know that the Wrangler 4xe is the best selling PHEV in the USA.
I'm in Illinois and it's hard to even find a 4xe Wrangler on dealer lots in some places. Of the Jeep dealers by me two of the dealers don't have any 4xe's on their lots. There are several stores any hospitals that have public charging though.
What I read online that the 4xe was the best selling plug in hybrid in America and it's 40% of all jeep sales. Im I wrong ? Or Ben does't know what he's talking about ? I agree that it's overpriced for what it is just like any other jeep or truck, but with the federal tax credit of 7500 and state credit of 3000 dollars thats a 10500 dollars off the msrp and with that while its still expensive but competative with the other models
I think the old e-torque had that mild hybrid and was essentially free. By making it a distinct model, they tried to create a market where one did not necessarily exist. A market of an expensive vehicle that is available on top of n already expensive vehicle.
the incentives and tax credits up front bring a 62k jeep to 47k so i dont understand all the price issues ..it ends up being very affordable
There's is a bit of anti 4xe/PHEV mythology in this video.
One thing for sure is the $7,500+ tax incentive made Jeep price these vehicles higher than they should have.
The Rubicon 4xe has a mark-up, but the Rubicon was already a marked up trim, the Sahara 4xe was the same to a similarly equipped 3.6/2.0 Sahara.
A PHEV is meant to charge primarily at home, not hunting around for chargers, so if the vast majority of your driving isn't covered by the range, then it's not much financial benefit, also if gas is cheap in your area vs electric, then there might be no financial benefit to a PHEV, but we are supposed to be buying these gas guzzlers to save the planet, so the government was subsidizing them, and people rushed in, now they don't qualify for the subsidies and as expected people are not going to buy them, for rhe reasons i stated above.
I live in Northern California and the Jeep 4Xe don't sell well at all. I think the basic problem is the cost of the Jeep. They are just not worth the asking and/or marked up price. The V6 sells well. Very informative video. Thanks Ben!
Aside from Stellantis pricing Jeep and Ram completely out of reality, they sold 43,000 of them(4xe)in 2022, a respectable number.
The only Jeep grand Cherokees, wranglers and gladiators on the lots at the local Jeep dealer are the 4Xe. You can’t even order the ICE jeeps.
If you lease, Chrysler capital passes the $7500 on directly to the consumer. It doesn't matter what you make. You get the instant rebate from FCA before you even leave the lot.
The lease payments are insanely low on the 4xe with the tax
credits.
I rented one of these in Hawaii this past week and I loved it! Lots of power and great gas mileage. I tried charging it at my VRBO, but I blew a breaker the second night and thought I better not do that any more. I would buy one of these if I were in the market for a new vehicle...
I think these are really cool. but there are a lot of new moving parts. Not sure how this will do in the long term
It was an absurdly expensive hybrid with walking distance electric power. They would have sold more in lower trim levels.
All you say it’s what you have heard, but one and come back to update us, I’ve heard nothing but good things about them
Love my Sahara 4Xe bought for 62k July 2022. Now I can get a 2024 same model plus the new bigger entertainment screen for 49-50k. I guess I should have bought a Toyota if I wanted it to hold on to any value. 🤷🏼♂️
do these 4xE's make sense? You save a gallon of gas a day 4 bucks. But you spend that charging the car for 12 hours right? Has to be close... Then with the extra 800 pounds you get only 20 mpg and I got that with the V6 usually at a min.
EV’s are useless without a charging network. But, one the electricity needed for them, still come from coal and oil production. Two, our electrical power grid cannot support a large amount of EV’s. It’s ignorant to push these on people. Plus, why would you want electric in an true off-road vehicle? Unless your definition of “off-road” means parking on the grass in your yard. 🤣 And yes, I own a Jeep.
I love hybrids but doubt I would buy the 4xe because its been so problematic, plus it needs to get more electric range. I would like to buy a willys in the 4 cylinder no hybrid.
How about the Wagoneer 4xe drivetrain, with large battery > 70 kWh -- Drivetrain like in Ramcharger?
In NY their taking 14k of price in incentives right now looking at a willy 4xe never had electric not even a fan but they dont even have gas ones and with the incentives the 4xe is cheaper. Not for nothing there is more power from the 4xe then the v6
Jeep people. Want a wrangler 2door, no extras, no carpet with lockers. dont want to spend 50,000. They forgot about the people who built their empire.😢