My video on the issue of the BBC's support of Transphobia: th-cam.com/video/aN4uc0HZrWE/w-d-xo.html Shaun's 1st video, which includes some additional confirmed information: th-cam.com/video/b4buJMMiwcg/w-d-xo.html Shaun’s 2nd video, which follows how the BBC is trying to dodge accountability for all of this: th-cam.com/video/qfjTG6SVjmQ/w-d-xo.html Shaun’s recent 3rd video: th-cam.com/video/fRn1UZ4fhdE/w-d-xo.html Laura Kate Dale's recent protest speech outside the BBC offices: th-cam.com/video/hBjGnWkwAjI/w-d-xo.html
As a Brit, the partition of India is shockingly undertaught here too so it's definitely not just the American education system at fault here. This episode tied into a wider series of events and programmes from the BBC about partition and Indian and Pakistani independence - a testament to what a force for good the BBC can be when it's not harassing trans folk. I remember watching this episode and imagining Testimony from Twice Upon A Time and these aliens essentially forming a queue to witness deaths. It's a shame because I liked these aliens, their motivations were interesting but the two episodes were just released too close to each other.
As a 'former' American Social Studies teacher, the partition was taught as... Well, did you ever hear Billy Joel's 'We Didnt Start The Fire'? Catch phrases/names and move on to the next subject. "1947 India-Pakistan/Gandhi/Religious Strife. 1948 Palestine again..." Sorry it doesn't rhyme
I feel this is definitely one of Thirteen's (and by extension the Chibnall era's I guess haha) better episodes. I quite like the final scene though. I think that Umbreen always remembered Yaz being there during the partition and why Umbreen was finally willing to open up to Yaz was that she recognised that Yaz had now gone back and experienced that story for herself (by seeing the make-up on her hands), hence the offer to open up (and Yaz's rejection of the offer); she didn't have to. It also ties back to the start of the episode at the birthday party where she (jokingly?) says that Yaz is her favourite Granddaughter - Yaz was there for her at such a traumatic time despite not even having children, let alone grandchildren, yet. Overall, a really solid, slightly wibbly-wobbly episode.
Probably could have been Handled better though maybe just making sure she was actually ok with telling it and respect her privacy despite doing so as if she doesn’t now Yazd was there that sounds quite dismissive and rude
I will come back to the soundtrack for this episode (a rarity for the Whittaker era) to listen to the rendition of the theme tune with the closing credits
One of the contexts for Demons of the Punjab that seems to have got lost somewhere is that it was originally shown on Remembrance Sunday, the first Sunday in November where we remember our fallen soldiers. We commemorate this day by wearing a poppy, flowers which appear on the skirts of the Thajarrians throughout. Therefore, they're intended to represent that remembrance, in particular of the Unknown Soldier. Likewise, another thing that doesn't get mentioned all that often is the parallels with Romeo and Juliet, in that two lovers divided by conflict fulfill their desire to be together, albeit briefly. The tragedy of both of course is that that happiness is short-lived. Umbreen and Prem are very much the personification of the Partition of India, and how devestating it was to a great many communities. The bookending scenes with Yaz and her Nani were there to allow the story to be told effectively. The watch symbolises a secret past, one which, all those years later, still upsets Umbreen. She loved Nadja's father with all her heart, but still harbours regret that her marriage to Prem came to such an abrupt end. Essentially, there's a lack of closure for her. The moment at the end when Umbreen volunteers to talk to Yaz is understood, by most UK viewers, to be a respect for privacy rather than a dismissal of a desire to open up. Umbreen's appreciation of that respect is also a recognisable British trait. One last thing: in a story which revolves around a broken watch, plus discussion of secret lives hidden from others, this could very much be seen as a foreshadowing of the Timeless Child arc.
I want a DW parody where someone is about to die and is then one by one the like twenty different entities come and kidnap them in their moment before death.
The guest actors REALLY made this episode shine for me. So humanizing, brilliantly acted. I felt incredibly emotionally invested in them and their stories. Totally hit me deep in the feels. Thanks for your review, Vera 💞 Wayhaught Dawg 🇨🇦🏳️⚧️
As a British national of a similar age to you, we were taught nothing about this in schools either. At least when I was at school in the 80s and 90s, the British education system had a habit of skipping over the (many many) moments when we were awful in history. I would argue that this lack of education has led to most of the issues in the country today. (Brexit anyone?) I loved this story for shining a spotlight on one our least finest hours, which reminded me of how Doctor Who can do wonderful things with its historicals. One of my favourites of this era, which has for me been rather hit and miss
Sadly most history lessons skip the bad things done by your own country, but happily show how terrible the others are (and therefore proving that the mother/fatherland is indeed the best!). For example, guess which one doesn't get mentioned in British schools: the horrible treatment of Congo Free State by Leopold II or the British concentration camps in Orange Free State?
Actually the specifics of modern indian history are not widely known in any Western country, including the UK. Chibnall's mission was to educate and here i think the writers did an excellent job of succinctly explaining a significant philosophical divide in post independence Indian politics. Namely 2 different visions for India; a cosmopolitan nation or a Hindu one.
That misses the point of the narrative that so many deaths in that time went completely unseen and unnoticed by the outside world both now and at the time, and the Thijarians are a sort of audience stand in that gives some attempt to at least see the deaths of so many people whose lost their lives without being noticed
I really like Yaz and Graham's scene in this episode, it's a really nice organic moment, and it makes me wonder why we didn't get more scenes with just the two of them
Disagree that the "monsters" in this episode are functionally the same as testimony. The non-villain twist is just a plot beat to get the audiences attention but I feel like the theme, which as you say is very strong here, is to have these creatures serve as stand-ins for the sci-fi aspect of Doctor Who as a whole taking a respectful step back to allow the historical events to speak for themselves. It's essentially a sci-fi historical turning around and saying "no this should be a pure historical".
I think any similarities the Thijarians have to the Testimony is pure coincidence as this was written before Twice Upon A Time came out. But even then I still think they are distinct enough and the Thijarians are perfect thematically for this episode, this is a beautiful episode that always hits hard!
Great video! I had very similar thoughts on the episode too: strong premise, decent execution (although there are a few annoying logistical oddities). Just one little nitpick: the first syllable in Punjab rhymes with "sun." The vowel should sound like the "u" in "rug", not the "u" in "put". It's super minor and unimportant, but it kept gnawing at me for some reason lol.
The watch being broken to me just represents getting closer to the history we know ... It's meant to remind you that Prem's death, so I don't mind the anti-climax I dunno the Testimony and Demons comparison (I forget their name) but it never holds water for me personally, maybe just cause of the differing subject matter
I agree - It feels like Testimony was more about recording dying people’s memories, while the aliens in Demons are more about being there so the person doesn’t have to die alone. Their motivations feel distinct enough to me.
With or without the Aliens, I still think the episode is good, though I feel it should have been a pure historical. It doesn't need to change all that much, the murder should have served to write out the Doctor and Ryan to give Yaz and her family more focus. The Brother making it seem like a deity being responsible to use their faith against them, the Doctor assuming it's an alien until they realise the truth.
I can forgive the similarities between Testimony and the Thijarians in that Testimony appears to be more of a catalogue for information purposes whereas the Thijarians did what they did out of a sense of personal loss and deciding to honour the dead due to that loss. I love that the Doctor didn't even seem to acknowledge the gun that Manish was pointing at her because her disappointment and sadness as his turn was far more devastating to her.
I feel like most Seasons never get an episode I consider to be a 10/10, but Demons of Punjab was the first pieces of media to make me cry since I was 18, 5 years ago...
I really believed that the characters were in that time & place, doing things and having feelings about that moment in their lives.Loved the balance between great events affecting entire countries and peoples by zeroing in on a few people trying to live their lives as the world turns upside down.
I have always loved this episode - def one of my favourites from this series. A very emotionally intense episode rich with some very deeply well rounded storyline. I liked the connection Yaz has with her grandmother, and can understand why she wants to visit this particular time in her own history. I did feel that Yaz wasn't given as harsh a warning about interfering with her own timeline, that Rose did in Father's Day, though she didn't really interfere with events, and simply wanted to see her grandmother's side. The "villains" of the piece really only added an emotional layer to the main theme of the episode, adding gravitas to it, rather than overshadowing it - something I really appreciated here. I think it's good when Doctor Who does episodes that are less sci-fi, and more human storytelling based. All in all a riveting episode that will remain a top favourite. BY the way - I felt the scene where Yaz declines having Umbreen tell about the watch is more a case of her having seen what had happened, and understanding that there is no need to know why the watch was broken/not getting fixed - but yes...maybe it just wasn't played out as well as it could have been.
As the villains in this episode are former assassins, I would love to see them brought back in future episodes from previously in their timeline. I’d kinda want the Doctor to underestimate them or trust them quickly due to their previous encounter only for a Demon (Thajarians?) to immediate take advantage and kill their intended target (or someone else who defended the target idk). It’d give the Doctor a moral crisis and it’d give a companion the chance to shine comforting them.
As an Indian I wouldn't blame you for not knowing about the partition of India( most people don't even know about the horrible caste system issues in my country which is just as bad, if not worse than what happened during the Partition). All of our global education systems have unfortunately failed us severely when it comes to world history, especially when it's history that pertains to People of Colour's countries. Yay to Colonialism and Imperialism.
I always thought the reason why Yaz says she doesn't need to know yet is that the grandmother may have worked out that Yaz was there and Yaz doesn't really want to open up that can of worms
Very good review! This was the standout episode to me of the whole season. It will be interesting when I revisit it to see how good it seems on second viewing to me
I honestly always found it sad that in an episode that should've (could've?) been a vehicle for Yaz's character depth, we still only get very little of her character here. Add that to my gripe with Graham's talk with Yaz feeling more like a moment the Doctor should've had with her (but then I feel like Graham was almost the Doctor more than the Doctor herself at that point) and the story mostly leaves me cold as far as our main characters are concerned. And don't even start me on Thirteen just passively walking away from people dying YET AGAIN. :/ I do like the guest characters though and having a historical story. To me it feels like a great episode of TV, but maybe not just a great episode of Doctor Who, as our leads mostly fell between the cracks, IMO.
I agree with basically all of the points here. It went down on rewatch due to weak alien villains, it has a number of issues with the specifics, but it nails the human emotion at the core pf the story (even if some of the shots could have been better). B
I kind of find it hard to believe Yaz growing up wouldn’t have worked out at least part of her Grandmother’s history given the age Yaz is. If she was a young teenager then I get it but similar to Ryan in Rosa they seem way too old to only just be knowing this information.
This is one of only 3, maybe 4, episodes of the Chibnall Era where the show came close to delivering an all time classic. But here the aliens are a very weak element, and the emotional climax, while it does land, doesn't land quite as hard as it should just because Yaz isn't well developed enough. It's close to being truly great, but has enough flaws to be 9/10 instead of 10/10.
@@tasha1727 Nicola Tesla's Night of Terror and Village of the Angels are the two definite others. And then maybe It Takes You Away or mayyyyybe Fugitive of the Judoon.
I love this episode, definitely one of my favourites of the 13th doctor's era. As much as I like what they did with the aliens they were the weakest part of the story and I think that it could have just been a pure historical. The comparison to twice upon a time is interesting and not one that I'd noticed or thought about before. I do think that they're different enough though.
Honestly this is one of my favourite historicals. I have my issues, but overall I think as you said the core emotional pillar of the story is well done. I actually don't mind the Thijarians (I think that's how it's spelled) being similar to Testimony, although I do think it would've benefitted from more distance from TuaT. I think narratively though, having former lethal assassin's turned mourners to help observe the many people who inevitably were killed without witness (not just in the partition of India but in everyday life everywhere) really felt like a fitting companion to this tragic part of history I, too, wish I had learned about and equally put more effort into learning about as an adult.
This episode doesn’t land as well with me like Rosa did cause to me this episode screams Father’s Day 2.0 cause like rose asked the doctor to see her father yaz asked the doctor to see her grandma’s younger self in context of the broken watch that happened to be happening at the same time as the partition of India but yaz didn’t disrupt time like rose did when she saved her father from dying overall it’s a good episode I just can’t escape the Father’s Day feel it has
hi! quick fangirl moment, I so look forward to your uploads. You’ve become one of my favorite creators, and this most recent series rewatch your commentary has been stellar! Great job !!
@@c17sam90 I have read that in some diaspora families where the event that led to the leaving was particularly painful, the elders who experienced it don’t like to talk about it with their descendants. It’s possible Yaz knew the generalities about partition day if it was covered in school but not the specificities of how it affected her family. As an American with an admittedly terrible historical education, I knew India and Pakistan had been divided but not really the specifics as to how. I’d hope British education on the subject would be better but since my education didn’t even mention that Dred Scott was at Fort Snelling in Minnesota and I live 5 miles from there, I don’t have my hopes up.
@@carschmn I’m just saying even if she didn’t know the full story she probably could work out via dates/how old her grandmother was she was likely there during that time. It also strikes me a kind of heavy handed that the black guy gets to go back in time and see black American oppression and the Indian lady sees Indian oppression. I kind of wish if they wanted to tell racial stories they had picked less obvious events and didn’t place the episode so close together
@@booradley8895 I know but it instantly makes the character of Yaz and Ryan look stupid for not knowing. If the characters were younger I could have believed it more.
If having no Storm Trooper aiming is what automatically makes a good Doctor Who story, no wonder Demons of the Punjab is fantastic for it's tragic death of Prem Barsar.
This ep is the only reason yaz was included in the cast they needed a minority. this is a classic cases they had the story idea before the actor was even hired cos she was promptly forgotten about till series 13
As another product of the American education system, I learned more about the partition of India in this episode than I ever did in school. I have learned more since watching it.
What I wanted from the ending scene was the idea that Nani had realised that it was it was Yaz who had been present at the wedding and so when she volunteered to talk about what happened it was because she knew she didn't need to now, Yaz had experienced it herself, but maybe Yaz had a secret of her own. But what they did didn't land with me either.
I loved this episode when I first saw it. After second viewing, I still think it's one of the strongest episodes of Whitaker's run, but there are some details that bother me a bit. The main one being, how did none of the people who examined Bhakti's body notice that he had been shot? Nitpicks aside, I still think it's a strong episode. While it has some logistical flaws, the main core of the story still works.
I quite like this one, but on reflection it feels like a bit of a rehash of Twice Upon a Time. Also we once again see a trend of the Chibnall era where the characters are passive and don’t change the systems they encounter.
Given how the actual events they're trying to portray played out and continue to play about 80 years on, it would be dishonest and a little 'white saviour' for them to change the violence around the partitions
To be honest, this episode (as well as Rosa) are rare instances where 13 and her companions' passivity is used rather well. Considering there could be massive historical ramifications from interfering with the established events, it makes sense in these cases why they don't really do anything about the broader scale of injustice. They don't have that excuse the other times they do this (i.e. next episode), but I think they get away with it in these cases
The scene with Yaz blurting out in front of her younger grandma how her life choices are not OK, and then the final scene back home, really take me out of it. Like with a lot of Chibnall episodes the background characters (unless he’s attempting to be profound) are great. The trend appears to be that the Doctor and Fam tend to be the weakest part of most of these episodes.
Your point about the Thajarians (?) being identical to Testimony - both are identical to the Shansheeth from SJA. Dunno that kinda bugs me too, even in SJA the Shansheeth are revealed to be not evil in the end too. So re-rehash???
Interested to see this one. When the series was first coming out i was surprised to see everyone linking this one so much as I found it my least favourite jodie episode at the time (though upon reflection spiders was way, way worse). I love the setting, but It completely failed to invest me in the characters of the week at all and I felt the aliens (can't remember their name) just distracted from the historical elements that I was actually interested in.
Admittedly I haven’t seen this episode since it came out but my recollection was that the doctor was superfluous to the story. Take her out and the same thing happens. So aside from the subject matter it was a weak episode of doctor who.
So… you’re not wrong but it doesn’t bother me here the way it does in something like Revelation of the Daleks. I suppose the difference is that she’s active even if her actions don’t alter the story. I mean. You can technically say the same thing about Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark.
@@CouncilofGeeks re raiders. Basically yes except if Indy didn’t know to not look into the ark then it would have sat there to be found by anyone and they would have died. He made sure it was safe. Secondly it is less obvious and referring back to your earlier video, you can forgive plot holes if they aren’t obvious on initial viewings and this one certainly isn’t unless you are Amy Farah Fowler.
Oh, and I felt the aliens were totally unnecessary, forced, sci-fi filler that served no purpose. If ever there had been a time to start telling purely historical stories again, like in the earliest days of the show, Rosa and Deamons of the Punjab were the opportunities that should have been taken. No time-travelling neo-Nazis or guilt-ridden extraterrestrial goth voyeurs; just history. Underrepresented, under-appreciated history.
My video on the issue of the BBC's support of Transphobia: th-cam.com/video/aN4uc0HZrWE/w-d-xo.html
Shaun's 1st video, which includes some additional confirmed information: th-cam.com/video/b4buJMMiwcg/w-d-xo.html
Shaun’s 2nd video, which follows how the BBC is trying to dodge accountability for all of this: th-cam.com/video/qfjTG6SVjmQ/w-d-xo.html
Shaun’s recent 3rd video: th-cam.com/video/fRn1UZ4fhdE/w-d-xo.html
Laura Kate Dale's recent protest speech outside the BBC offices: th-cam.com/video/hBjGnWkwAjI/w-d-xo.html
As a Brit, the partition of India is shockingly undertaught here too so it's definitely not just the American education system at fault here. This episode tied into a wider series of events and programmes from the BBC about partition and Indian and Pakistani independence - a testament to what a force for good the BBC can be when it's not harassing trans folk.
I remember watching this episode and imagining Testimony from Twice Upon A Time and these aliens essentially forming a queue to witness deaths. It's a shame because I liked these aliens, their motivations were interesting but the two episodes were just released too close to each other.
As a 'former' American Social Studies teacher, the partition was taught as... Well, did you ever hear Billy Joel's 'We Didnt Start The Fire'? Catch phrases/names and move on to the next subject. "1947 India-Pakistan/Gandhi/Religious Strife. 1948 Palestine again..." Sorry it doesn't rhyme
Same, I didn't even know about it before this episode aired.
I feel this is definitely one of Thirteen's (and by extension the Chibnall era's I guess haha) better episodes. I quite like the final scene though. I think that Umbreen always remembered Yaz being there during the partition and why Umbreen was finally willing to open up to Yaz was that she recognised that Yaz had now gone back and experienced that story for herself (by seeing the make-up on her hands), hence the offer to open up (and Yaz's rejection of the offer); she didn't have to. It also ties back to the start of the episode at the birthday party where she (jokingly?) says that Yaz is her favourite Granddaughter - Yaz was there for her at such a traumatic time despite not even having children, let alone grandchildren, yet. Overall, a really solid, slightly wibbly-wobbly episode.
Probably could have been Handled better though maybe just making sure she was actually ok with telling it and respect her privacy despite doing so as if she doesn’t now Yazd was there that sounds quite dismissive and rude
I will come back to the soundtrack for this episode (a rarity for the Whittaker era) to listen to the rendition of the theme tune with the closing credits
One of the contexts for Demons of the Punjab that seems to have got lost somewhere is that it was originally shown on Remembrance Sunday, the first Sunday in November where we remember our fallen soldiers. We commemorate this day by wearing a poppy, flowers which appear on the skirts of the Thajarrians throughout. Therefore, they're intended to represent that remembrance, in particular of the Unknown Soldier.
Likewise, another thing that doesn't get mentioned all that often is the parallels with Romeo and Juliet, in that two lovers divided by conflict fulfill their desire to be together, albeit briefly. The tragedy of both of course is that that happiness is short-lived. Umbreen and Prem are very much the personification of the Partition of India, and how devestating it was to a great many communities.
The bookending scenes with Yaz and her Nani were there to allow the story to be told effectively. The watch symbolises a secret past, one which, all those years later, still upsets Umbreen. She loved Nadja's father with all her heart, but still harbours regret that her marriage to Prem came to such an abrupt end. Essentially, there's a lack of closure for her.
The moment at the end when Umbreen volunteers to talk to Yaz is understood, by most UK viewers, to be a respect for privacy rather than a dismissal of a desire to open up. Umbreen's appreciation of that respect is also a recognisable British trait.
One last thing: in a story which revolves around a broken watch, plus discussion of secret lives hidden from others, this could very much be seen as a foreshadowing of the Timeless Child arc.
I want a DW parody where someone is about to die and is then one by one the like twenty different entities come and kidnap them in their moment before death.
Ah but the TRUE Demons of the Punjab was... man's inhumanity to man.
The guest actors REALLY made this episode shine for me. So humanizing, brilliantly acted. I felt incredibly emotionally invested in them and their stories. Totally hit me deep in the feels.
Thanks for your review, Vera 💞
Wayhaught Dawg 🇨🇦🏳️⚧️
As a British national of a similar age to you, we were taught nothing about this in schools either. At least when I was at school in the 80s and 90s, the British education system had a habit of skipping over the (many many) moments when we were awful in history. I would argue that this lack of education has led to most of the issues in the country today. (Brexit anyone?) I loved this story for shining a spotlight on one our least finest hours, which reminded me of how Doctor Who can do wonderful things with its historicals. One of my favourites of this era, which has for me been rather hit and miss
Sadly most history lessons skip the bad things done by your own country, but happily show how terrible the others are (and therefore proving that the mother/fatherland is indeed the best!).
For example, guess which one doesn't get mentioned in British schools: the horrible treatment of Congo Free State by Leopold II or the British concentration camps in Orange Free State?
I didn't even know the partition was a thing until this episode came out. I'd heard nothing about it all throughout school...
Actually the specifics of modern indian history are not widely known in any Western country, including the UK. Chibnall's mission was to educate and here i think the writers did an excellent job of succinctly explaining a significant philosophical divide in post independence Indian politics. Namely 2 different visions for India; a cosmopolitan nation or a Hindu one.
I wish this episode was a pure historical, then we could have more focus on the characters instead of on some aliens we will never see again
Ye I think the impact of the partition would be felt more if the only enemies were the humans themselves
That misses the point of the narrative that so many deaths in that time went completely unseen and unnoticed by the outside world both now and at the time, and the Thijarians are a sort of audience stand in that gives some attempt to at least see the deaths of so many people whose lost their lives without being noticed
I really like Yaz and Graham's scene in this episode, it's a really nice organic moment, and it makes me wonder why we didn't get more scenes with just the two of them
While I will concede that this episode is flawed, this was the one that convinced me that the Thirteenth Doctor era was worthwhile.
Disagree that the "monsters" in this episode are functionally the same as testimony. The non-villain twist is just a plot beat to get the audiences attention but I feel like the theme, which as you say is very strong here, is to have these creatures serve as stand-ins for the sci-fi aspect of Doctor Who as a whole taking a respectful step back to allow the historical events to speak for themselves. It's essentially a sci-fi historical turning around and saying "no this should be a pure historical".
I think any similarities the Thijarians have to the Testimony is pure coincidence as this was written before Twice Upon A Time came out. But even then I still think they are distinct enough and the Thijarians are perfect thematically for this episode, this is a beautiful episode that always hits hard!
Great video! I had very similar thoughts on the episode too: strong premise, decent execution (although there are a few annoying logistical oddities).
Just one little nitpick: the first syllable in Punjab rhymes with "sun." The vowel should sound like the "u" in "rug", not the "u" in "put". It's super minor and unimportant, but it kept gnawing at me for some reason lol.
The watch being broken to me just represents getting closer to the history we know ... It's meant to remind you that Prem's death, so I don't mind the anti-climax
I dunno the Testimony and Demons comparison (I forget their name) but it never holds water for me personally, maybe just cause of the differing subject matter
I agree - It feels like Testimony was more about recording dying people’s memories, while the aliens in Demons are more about being there so the person doesn’t have to die alone. Their motivations feel distinct enough to me.
With or without the Aliens, I still think the episode is good, though I feel it should have been a pure historical. It doesn't need to change all that much, the murder should have served to write out the Doctor and Ryan to give Yaz and her family more focus. The Brother making it seem like a deity being responsible to use their faith against them, the Doctor assuming it's an alien until they realise the truth.
10:33 - ARE YOU SUGGESTING WE SHOULD TEACH CRT TO KIDS?? ;)
I can forgive the similarities between Testimony and the Thijarians in that Testimony appears to be more of a catalogue for information purposes whereas the Thijarians did what they did out of a sense of personal loss and deciding to honour the dead due to that loss.
I love that the Doctor didn't even seem to acknowledge the gun that Manish was pointing at her because her disappointment and sadness as his turn was far more devastating to her.
I feel like most Seasons never get an episode I consider to be a 10/10, but Demons of Punjab was the first pieces of media to make me cry since I was 18, 5 years ago...
I really believed that the characters were in that time & place, doing things and having feelings about that moment in their lives.Loved the balance between great events affecting entire countries and peoples by zeroing in on a few people trying to live their lives as the world turns upside down.
I have always loved this episode - def one of my favourites from this series. A very emotionally intense episode rich with some very deeply well rounded storyline. I liked the connection Yaz has with her grandmother, and can understand why she wants to visit this particular time in her own history. I did feel that Yaz wasn't given as harsh a warning about interfering with her own timeline, that Rose did in Father's Day, though she didn't really interfere with events, and simply wanted to see her grandmother's side. The "villains" of the piece really only added an emotional layer to the main theme of the episode, adding gravitas to it, rather than overshadowing it - something I really appreciated here. I think it's good when Doctor Who does episodes that are less sci-fi, and more human storytelling based. All in all a riveting episode that will remain a top favourite. BY the way - I felt the scene where Yaz declines having Umbreen tell about the watch is more a case of her having seen what had happened, and understanding that there is no need to know why the watch was broken/not getting fixed - but yes...maybe it just wasn't played out as well as it could have been.
As the villains in this episode are former assassins, I would love to see them brought back in future episodes from previously in their timeline.
I’d kinda want the Doctor to underestimate them or trust them quickly due to their previous encounter only for a Demon (Thajarians?) to immediate take advantage and kill their intended target (or someone else who defended the target idk). It’d give the Doctor a moral crisis and it’d give a companion the chance to shine comforting them.
As an Indian I wouldn't blame you for not knowing about the partition of India( most people don't even know about the horrible caste system issues in my country which is just as bad, if not worse than what happened during the Partition). All of our global education systems have unfortunately failed us severely when it comes to world history, especially when it's history that pertains to People of Colour's countries. Yay to Colonialism and Imperialism.
I always thought the reason why Yaz says she doesn't need to know yet is that the grandmother may have worked out that Yaz was there and Yaz doesn't really want to open up that can of worms
Very good review! This was the standout episode to me of the whole season. It will be interesting when I revisit it to see how good it seems on second viewing to me
I honestly always found it sad that in an episode that should've (could've?) been a vehicle for Yaz's character depth, we still only get very little of her character here. Add that to my gripe with Graham's talk with Yaz feeling more like a moment the Doctor should've had with her (but then I feel like Graham was almost the Doctor more than the Doctor herself at that point) and the story mostly leaves me cold as far as our main characters are concerned. And don't even start me on Thirteen just passively walking away from people dying YET AGAIN. :/
I do like the guest characters though and having a historical story. To me it feels like a great episode of TV, but maybe not just a great episode of Doctor Who, as our leads mostly fell between the cracks, IMO.
I agree with basically all of the points here. It went down on rewatch due to weak alien villains, it has a number of issues with the specifics, but it nails the human emotion at the core pf the story (even if some of the shots could have been better). B
I kind of find it hard to believe Yaz growing up wouldn’t have worked out at least part of her Grandmother’s history given the age Yaz is. If she was a young teenager then I get it but similar to Ryan in Rosa they seem way too old to only just be knowing this information.
This is one of only 3, maybe 4, episodes of the Chibnall Era where the show came close to delivering an all time classic. But here the aliens are a very weak element, and the emotional climax, while it does land, doesn't land quite as hard as it should just because Yaz isn't well developed enough.
It's close to being truly great, but has enough flaws to be 9/10 instead of 10/10.
And which episodes are the other in your top 3/4? (sorry for my English. I don't know how say it better)
@@tasha1727 Nicola Tesla's Night of Terror and Village of the Angels are the two definite others. And then maybe It Takes You Away or mayyyyybe Fugitive of the Judoon.
@@crazypomp927 thank you. I think I should rewatch this episodes
I love this episode, definitely one of my favourites of the 13th doctor's era. As much as I like what they did with the aliens they were the weakest part of the story and I think that it could have just been a pure historical.
The comparison to twice upon a time is interesting and not one that I'd noticed or thought about before. I do think that they're different enough though.
Honestly this is one of my favourite historicals. I have my issues, but overall I think as you said the core emotional pillar of the story is well done. I actually don't mind the Thijarians (I think that's how it's spelled) being similar to Testimony, although I do think it would've benefitted from more distance from TuaT. I think narratively though, having former lethal assassin's turned mourners to help observe the many people who inevitably were killed without witness (not just in the partition of India but in everyday life everywhere) really felt like a fitting companion to this tragic part of history I, too, wish I had learned about and equally put more effort into learning about as an adult.
This episode doesn’t land as well with me like Rosa did cause to me this episode screams Father’s Day 2.0 cause like rose asked the doctor to see her father yaz asked the doctor to see her grandma’s younger self in context of the broken watch that happened to be happening at the same time as the partition of India but yaz didn’t disrupt time like rose did when she saved her father from dying overall it’s a good episode I just can’t escape the Father’s Day feel it has
hi! quick fangirl moment, I so look forward to your uploads. You’ve become one of my favorite creators, and this most recent series rewatch your commentary has been stellar! Great job !!
I thought this worked better than “Rosa” to introduce people to historical events they might not be familiar with.
My issue was that I felt like especially Yaz had to have history explained to her that she would have already known
@@c17sam90 I have read that in some diaspora families where the event that led to the leaving was particularly painful, the elders who experienced it don’t like to talk about it with their descendants. It’s possible Yaz knew the generalities about partition day if it was covered in school but not the specificities of how it affected her family.
As an American with an admittedly terrible historical education, I knew India and Pakistan had been divided but not really the specifics as to how. I’d hope British education on the subject would be better but since my education didn’t even mention that Dred Scott was at Fort Snelling in Minnesota and I live 5 miles from there, I don’t have my hopes up.
@@carschmn I’m just saying even if she didn’t know the full story she probably could work out via dates/how old her grandmother was she was likely there during that time.
It also strikes me a kind of heavy handed that the black guy gets to go back in time and see black American oppression and the Indian lady sees Indian oppression. I kind of wish if they wanted to tell racial stories they had picked less obvious events and didn’t place the episode so close together
@@c17sam90 The history was explained for the benefit of the viewers
@@booradley8895 I know but it instantly makes the character of Yaz and Ryan look stupid for not knowing. If the characters were younger I could have believed it more.
If having no Storm Trooper aiming is what automatically makes a good Doctor Who story, no wonder Demons of the Punjab is fantastic for it's tragic death of Prem Barsar.
This ep is the only reason yaz was included in the cast they needed a minority. this is a classic cases they had the story idea before the actor was even hired cos she was promptly forgotten about till series 13
My favourite Jodie episode.
As another product of the American education system, I learned more about the partition of India in this episode than I ever did in school. I have learned more since watching it.
What I wanted from the ending scene was the idea that Nani had realised that it was it was Yaz who had been present at the wedding and so when she volunteered to talk about what happened it was because she knew she didn't need to now, Yaz had experienced it herself, but maybe Yaz had a secret of her own. But what they did didn't land with me either.
I liked setting it during the patrician of india it was very educational which was what the original idea of Doctor Who was.
I loved this episode when I first saw it. After second viewing, I still think it's one of the strongest episodes of Whitaker's run, but there are some details that bother me a bit. The main one being, how did none of the people who examined Bhakti's body notice that he had been shot? Nitpicks aside, I still think it's a strong episode. While it has some logistical flaws, the main core of the story still works.
Music's really good too
Love your reviews
This season had so many just boring episodes, although it seems like no one can agree on which ones they are
Hey! Haven’t seen you in a while (Tvinsin under a new name)
Totally agree, the characters and setting were great but everything else was flimsy af.
I wish chibnall more went ust historical, because thats great.
I quite like this one, but on reflection it feels like a bit of a rehash of Twice Upon a Time. Also we once again see a trend of the Chibnall era where the characters are passive and don’t change the systems they encounter.
Given how the actual events they're trying to portray played out and continue to play about 80 years on, it would be dishonest and a little 'white saviour' for them to change the violence around the partitions
To be honest, this episode (as well as Rosa) are rare instances where 13 and her companions' passivity is used rather well. Considering there could be massive historical ramifications from interfering with the established events, it makes sense in these cases why they don't really do anything about the broader scale of injustice. They don't have that excuse the other times they do this (i.e. next episode), but I think they get away with it in these cases
How are they suppose to change the system? They were only there because of Yaz, not to change anything.
The scene with Yaz blurting out in front of her younger grandma how her life choices are not OK, and then the final scene back home, really take me out of it. Like with a lot of Chibnall episodes the background characters (unless he’s attempting to be profound) are great. The trend appears to be that the Doctor and Fam tend to be the weakest part of most of these episodes.
Glad yaz declining her nan's story telling as weird as I did. You never turn a nana down when she wants to tell you a story.
Your point about the Thajarians (?) being identical to Testimony - both are identical to the Shansheeth from SJA. Dunno that kinda bugs me too, even in SJA the Shansheeth are revealed to be not evil in the end too. So re-rehash???
@@chaserseven2886 Only 3 in their race seems a small number
I liked it....but that is because I love history and love learning about history. They could of left the aliens out and I would have still been happy.
Interested to see this one. When the series was first coming out i was surprised to see everyone linking this one so much as I found it my least favourite jodie episode at the time (though upon reflection spiders was way, way worse). I love the setting, but It completely failed to invest me in the characters of the week at all and I felt the aliens (can't remember their name) just distracted from the historical elements that I was actually interested in.
Admittedly I haven’t seen this episode since it came out but my recollection was that the doctor was superfluous to the story. Take her out and the same thing happens. So aside from the subject matter it was a weak episode of doctor who.
So… you’re not wrong but it doesn’t bother me here the way it does in something like Revelation of the Daleks. I suppose the difference is that she’s active even if her actions don’t alter the story. I mean. You can technically say the same thing about Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark.
@@CouncilofGeeks re raiders. Basically yes except if Indy didn’t know to not look into the ark then it would have sat there to be found by anyone and they would have died. He made sure it was safe. Secondly it is less obvious and referring back to your earlier video, you can forgive plot holes if they aren’t obvious on initial viewings and this one certainly isn’t unless you are Amy Farah Fowler.
Episodes ok
Hot take
Best and only good Jodie episode
Disagree on both counts, but it's one of the better ones.
In a tier list, I have like at least Six Jodie Episodes that are God Tier, among the great of the greats, this one included.
Oh, and I felt the aliens were totally unnecessary, forced, sci-fi filler that served no purpose. If ever there had been a time to start telling purely historical stories again, like in the earliest days of the show, Rosa and Deamons of the Punjab were the opportunities that should have been taken. No time-travelling neo-Nazis or guilt-ridden extraterrestrial goth voyeurs; just history. Underrepresented, under-appreciated history.