STOP Retracting Your Shoulders for a Bigger Bench Press
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2022
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God, this makes so much sense. All of my efforts to eliminate that bit of natural protraction during high effort sets were always detrimental to my performance, despite what other people said.
Thanks for making this video, it truly helped me understand the bench press better.
Highly experienced powerlifter gives us gifts. Priceless ! Thank you David.
For me pushing my shoulders back actually got rid of a lot of shoulder issues. But i do admit its harder to reach peak weights with it
You have one of the best channels on TH-cam. Unfortunately most other channels just post this rehashed info for views. You explained it clearly and your channel is one of the few I value now. Thank-you so much.
I can only speak from my own experience but I use to just have a flat bench and as I started lifting heavier and heavier weights eventually I started getting discomfort in my rotator cuff area. I read about using a power lifting arch and retracting my scapula for more stability and tried it out. My shoulder pain went away immediately and never returned and I started progressing even faster in weight. I've never had any problems with it but I admittedly only do a slight arch and I'm not making it a priority to hold my shoulders together while pressing so maybe it's just a matter of taking things to an extreme which is causing people problems.
^same
same
+
because retracting your shoulders puts the movement where it should be into your triceps, not your shoulder. this guy is asking for a torn rotator cuff or pec if he goes up in heavy weight. you'll never hear of someone tearing a tricep in a bench press because its meant to press..
This is very in line with how calisthenics athletes teach the good ol' pushups, retraction happens on the eccentric mostly on its own as you say, and on the concentric reverse back to neutral (or even protraction in the Pushup Plus variation).
Great content as usual, and anecdotally had the same experience, everything felt better when I stopped thinking about forcing the position of my rotator cuf.
Visualizing my scapulas like I do on a push-up instantly corrected any shoulder pain I had during the movement, for sure
thank you so much for making this video. Legit an exact issue I had for so long.
Great video David! I was hesitant at first but your explanation was on point. Looking forward to the how to bench press finalization.
I will for sure try this next bench session great content !
My recommendation has always been to set the shoulders in a relatively retracted position during the setup, then to completely forget about their existence during the descent and especially the ascent.
This in my experience let's me reduce range of motion without squeezing the scaps and upper back the whole time.
Yep pretty much this.
I always retract my shoulder blades and I can Bench 385 at a body weight of 185.
@@johnreidy2804 keep it up then, everybody is different
@@johnreidy2804 what does that matter
@@monkeyhater4203 apparently it doesn't matter whether you retract you reshoulders or not
cant wait for the guide. Thank you!
I really appreciate the multitude of opinions and cues that you can get on this platform from those with experience to share… I just tried this and it seemed to be of benefit. Thanks
Thanks for this, learned this the hard way after straining my pec a couple times
Your videos are so useful
Just wanted to say I'm new to the channel and loving it bro.
Massively underrated & appreciate the content. Keep up the good work mate 💪
Nice video! Very helpful. Thank you!!
Thank god someone with credentials came out with this. I developed some shoulder pain in my bench press that was really messin with my head. Followed all these retraction tips and literally made my shoulder worse. Just lighter weight and movement with intent and slight angle changes made it go away.
Yea I didn’t say it explicitly in the video, but I do think many people’s shoulder issues they feel is because of this. They just are not allowing themselves to press effectively and end up shifting into areas that don’t really have that capacity.
same lol
So you've been ego lifting most your life... dont blame the form
@@wilfordbrimley6938 you sound like a lotta fun to be around 😃👍🏻
@@jameszbierski391 nah he's gay
Great video. I personally use some shoulder retraction for setting up my bench press. As very well discussed in video, that helps with creating tightness and reducing a bit ROM. However after the liftoff, I don't try to actively keep that position. I basically forget about it and focus on leg drive and pressing.
Great video David, when i first Got into PL and PL specefic training In allmost all cases the first thing being taught is the importance of maintaining a retracted position throughout the Bench Press, it was frustrating to me because i never seemed to be able to maintain that retracted position. Regardless of cues programming etc. Then i came across some of the material from kabuki strength yt Channel where they discuss scapulahumeral rythm and the focus should be more on depression and otherwise let the scapular move naturally through retraction and protraction throughout a Bench rep. I have certainly found it helpful for my Bench, nevertheless its a great topic for discussion once again great video David i look forward to the next !
Just what I needed. Thank you
these are really good pointers, and are put forth in a manner so easy to digest and understand!
This is so specific and helpful!
Wow, I’ve been thinking about this exact subject during every benching session in my current mesocycle - your video is very informative and it seems I finally have some idea on how to modify my approach to shoulder retraction so I won’t feel like I need to fight my own body to keep my shoulder blades maximally pinched during pressing phase of the lift. Thank you so much, I’m subscribing immediately.
Same here.... 🥲 I just failed a bench press PR attempt because of thinking about squeezing the lats in the concentric part of the motion
Best explanation I’ve ever heard about this issue.
Excellent video thank you:)
Underrated channel
That would definitely simplify things for me a bit. Thank you
The information reiterated in this video combined with a video Marcellus and Michael Seay put out a couple of years ago really helped my bench press overall. I often used so many cues to keep my scaps both retracted and depressed throughout and the whole purpose was for the psuedo-stability my brain felt while in that position, although it did nothing to help the actual press overall.
Now, I mimic Noriega to some extent where all spinal extension and elevation is created and maintained through my leg drive during the set-up and the rep(s) themselves. Overall, my bench has not only improved from a 1RM POV, but also the consistency in my reps/barpath is much better as well. Solid video David!
This man is a hero
In my personal experience and with many of my clients, the issue is that most shoulders are protracted in a person's neutral stance. For many people their posture has naturally pulled their shoulders forward and they definitely stop short on the bench press and push ups because there's a mental block to bringing the shoulders back. It's very very difficult to actually retract your shoulders and for most people by the time they have "retracted" they are actually neutral. For me personally, what I mentally think is "holding a pencil between my shoulder blades" is actually just having a straight and neutral back. The important part for me is not protracting which not only hurt my shoulder when I was younger, but it takes the tension off of the chest contraction. I imagine this is very different though in powerlifting as the weight would likely make it difficult. I immediately intensified my contraction across the chest especially at the end of a rep by bringing the shoulders back and holding them neutral. It feels less like curling your bicep while flexing your tricep and more like doing a bicep curl with a block behind your elbow. I guess some people have been saying to squeeze the shoulder blades together with all your might? That wouldn't be good. Thinking about it more, it's akin to engaging your core when you do calisthenics or squats. Your not curling so tightly that it moves in the opposite direction of the squat, but your engaging so that the energy transfer from the floor isn't in your jello.
That's one large problem with everyone "hearing" a thing instead of being trained. It's very easy to get what someone explains wrong or say it incorrectly for the audience. Then those people walk away and poison their associates with the wrong ideas and all of the sudden people are imagining that they can push a bar upwards while pulling it down at the same time. Wild.
Finally some sense! Thanks
yeah, my posture is really bad so I need to retract to not jack up my shoulder. But it does weaken my bench.
Brillant Explantation ! ..... THIS is where I have being going wrong !!! THANK YOU 🙌
Looking forward to your guide. Subscribed.
On the eccentric phase Im arching my back and less of my lower back and upper back is contacting the bench. Im also retracting my shoulder blades and actually providing a stiff connection with the ground, my feet, my torso, shoulder blades, and controlling the lowering of the bar. That way, Im actually keeping tension and using the elasticity of my muscles so I dont have to contract everything as hard during the concentric phase. So yeah, Ive had all sorts of other joint problems, but nothing in my shoulders or elbows from the bench.
The bench sucks anyway. Its sad that some people have bench PRs better than what they squat.
great video!
I have been struggling about my shoulder position while doing bench press. Will definitely try your approach aka just be normal lol
THANK YOU!!!!!!
This makes so much sense to me. I am trying to improve my bench press, and I started looking up guides on it and retracting and depressing my shoulder blades was a common thing. Now that I have been thinking about it, my bench press has felt way more unstable and I've started wiggling a lot when I approach failure. I used to just be able to fail but never actually wiggled the weight up -now, there's so much wiggling when I try and keep my chest up during the press, and shoulders back and down. I can't even focus on the leg drive because there's so much going on.
I'm going to lower the weight a tad and try and focus more on my leg drive, and almost completely ignore my shoulders. It used to feel so much smoother when all I used to do was get under the bar, arch a bit and just press. Maybe I used to have subconsciously more leg drive than I do now. I am lifting more now than I used to be, but that's just due to time and muscle growth. My form feels way worse and I really want to fix that, because I know I am capable of pressing more than I really am. The wiggling is a pain in the ass.
Thank you!
Excellent video! It's been difficult for me to "not" cue retracting the shoulders. I have just been focusing now on leg drive, and trying to have chest "reach the ceiling" without really focusing hard on retracing the shoulders, and like you mentioned not really purposely protracting the shoulders either.
My coach basically told me this but I didn't really understand what he meant until just now watching this video. He never said not to retract my shoulders, he simply told me to focus on creating tightness through leg drive and arching. He said instead of tightening my back to create arch to drive with my legs and push the bottom of my ribs toward the bar, which I did but I still retract my shoulders. I will be giving this a try today while benching to feel it out, as it does make a lot of sense that you don't want to engage muscles that will act in the opposite direction you want the bar to move!
You are definitely ok to have some retraction during that process of setting up. Don’t deliberately try to avoid it. Mostly just don’t try to retract while you are pressing. But what you described sounds correct. Just don’t worry if you feel your shoulders coming together some during your set up.
Been retracting my shoulders and it’s been driving me mad! Thank you for this video
In my opinion arching and subsequent reduction in range of motion in the bench press should mostly be a result of spinal (thoracic and maybe lumbar extension) and not scapular function (retraction). I had very good results with some lighter front squats before my bench sessions, because it helped me to learn adopting this posture
Nice drill 🤙🏽
Couldn’t agree more. I got so lost in what my shoulders were doing and forgot about the bigger picture
Such a good video, Glad I saw it:)
I was struck in the bad way and if I didn't not suffer a shoulder impingement, I would not be listening to you but since I know the pain of shoulder impingement, I am listening to every word you are saying.
That make so much sense. I always could understand why we are tought to do something that works only until bar is relatively light. When we reach 90%+ of 1 Rep max this “perfect” cue of tacking elbows and retracting shoulders doesn’t work and we can only lift heavier when we do it “wrong” way.
I remember reading Greg Nuckols on this. I think it was in his how to bench guide. If I remember correctly he said something along the lines of he didn't really care what you did with your shoulders as long as it was comfortable and facilitated good movement. depressed, retracted, elevated, he wasn't too fussed. his main thing was upon pressing up to concentrate on flaring and pushing. that was the main cue. I have a mildly kyphotic posture due to some mild schueuramann's disease and I've found that slightly elevating my shoulders and pinching with the upper traps a bit actually feels more comfortable than trying to depress the shoulder blades, and gives me a better platform to push off of. Anyways good video!
Right yea I agree here. And I think many of the comments that really disagree with the video didn’t get all the way to the end got upset with the clickbait title. I’ll have a video coming about flaring as well that I’m sure will get people just as upset without them really listening. But thanks for watching and getting the core message!
This makes sense. I have been working on the big 3 lately and been focusing on powerlifting form. My shoulder aggravates me more than before and my knees have been hurting because im to focused on keeping my shoulders retracted on bench and pulling down on bar in the squat. Dont overthink it, just go through the movement and control the weight
I'm a Massage Therapist newly getting into weight lifting. I just have to say - when I was first given the cue to retract my shoulder blades for bench press, it just seemed so wrong, based on my understanding of anatomy, but I was the noobie weightlifter so I listened to my trainer. Today I started looking around for actual reasons why retraction is good, and your video was a big relief to watch. Thank you!
Not directly related, but I've seen some people retract and lock their scapulae when doing pull ups, horizontal rows and even biceps/triceps movements. Their argument being if you lock your shoulderblades, that takes the shoulder structure out of the movement, letting you better isolate your back, biceps or whatever it is you're trying to hit. Is this accurate?
I can actually press more weight since following these cues. Thanks!
Great to hear!
I actually started retracting my shoulders to manage the shoulder pain I was experiencing before. Before that my shoulders would just move around freely and put a lot of strain on the joint.
Also, if you don't retract your shoulders, how do you keep the pecs included in the movement? Whenever I don't retract my shoulders the triceps take over and my pecs don't move pretty much at all.
Agreed! I developed a strain around my clavicle because I used to protract my shoulders to finish a tough lift. I started retracting a lot during the setup, and made good progress with NO pain since then. The title of the video is highly misleading, because all coaches and elite lifters I've listened to say to retract the shoulder blades.
@@henridsbro did you watch the video?
the triceps are the primary mover, the pecs just stabilise in a press.. if he wants to tackle "myths" the biggest one is the bench press is a chest excercise.
My shoulders always hurt from benching pressing with a retracted scapula. But when I stopped retracting my scapula my shoulders doesn't hurt anymore. (but I still depress my scapula but I do not retract it)
just want to make sure. this applies to dumbbells as well right?
Yeah I agree with a lot of what you're saying.. I'm personally trying to be a Bodybuilder and I do somewhat care how much I can lift still haha, Seemingly though I have a Powerlifters approach to the bench press.. Although as I've tried switching it up and not overexaggerating an arch, gripping closer on the bar and not retracting my scapula as much It began to feel a lot more comfortable for me and in turn my shoulders had less/no pain and the movement overall felt more natural AND my chest felt far more engaged on top of that.
This is interesting. I've been having shoulder issues ever since I got my power rack early this year. tons of clicking and popping, especially while trying to bench. I kinda assumed that my shoulders are bad and that i need to perfect my setup and do a lot of rotator cuff work. I can sometimes get a fairly click free set if I'm super tight and everything is in the perfect position. But I do wonder if I'm also just pulling things ouf of position. When I went to the gym as a teen I just benched and did everything poorly but had no issues. Now while I'm trying the hardest to do everything correctly I have the most issues. I had a crappy smith machine before and I dont think I had any shoulder issues. I just pushed the bar. It wasn't until I got my rack and tried to bench 'legit'. And now If I dont pull my shoulders back they are even worse. But I feel like I had no issues before.
That's because you ruined your shoulders over years of poor bench pressing technique and now that you're older it's gotten to the point where you can actually feel the effects
@@sumbitch3rdgen is that your expert opinion, doctor?
If its just popping and clicking its called audible crepitus and its not usually a sign of anything wrong. If you're experiencing pain with it you probably have some sort of impingement and should work on shoulder mobility exercises to make room for the tendon. Might could consult an actual doctor rather than morons like me and sumbitch up there, but I fixed my right shoulder with simple body and band exercises and its stronger than when I was a teen.
@@fenixchief7 moron or not, you are right with your recommendations. As a Physical therapist and personal trainer, I would start there, and see what happens after some exercises.
I agree. It never made sense to me to squeeze my shoulder blades together. It feels very unnatural and is distracting. Thanks for this
Always good to keep an open mind give it a good try if works keep it if you don't like it stop but at least let's give it a shot
Recently I experimented with pressing with not retracted shoulders for increased range of motion (and hopefully more hypertrophy), and I started having issues with my shoulder because I'm not trained in that bottom range of motion although I can shift some weight there. Just a word of caution to anyone who wants to change their style: don't go all in immediately, haha
I've cued shoulder retraction and depression for myself a lot, for the descent. I've never considered that shoulder retraction could work against the press itself, but I don't seem to be having that problem. Probably just intuitively learnt to let the shoulders move enough during the press to let the pecs do their job.
For high-arch bench pressers I'd say maximal shoulder retraction is still the way to go, because it seems to me that the benefits of (even slightly) reduced ROM tend to outweigh mechanical inefficiencies more and more as the ROM gets shorter. Like those ridiculous grips where the index finger is on the ring and the rest of the grip is actually 6cm to the side lol
I generally agree with most of this. Especially the last paragraph. For some people, the reduced ROM can outweigh the loss in potential force from the pecs. But that’s still almost exclusively during the descent. Retracting hard there might help a lot of people who have exceptionally big arches, but it doesn’t need to be maintained while they actually press.
I found retracting my shoulder blades actually caused an impingement, so , when I set up and get super tight and pull the bat out my shoulder blades naturally pull thereselves downward rather that tucking them and fighting the lift
As a beginner with not very good technique in terms of getting a good arch, would retraction of the shoulder blades be advisable? I see the position you and many others get into - wiiiide legs and helllllla arch - and I’m just not there :/ wondering if the very little arch I get is still better than retracting the shoulder blades.
Also, art thou coaching?
Think about depressing the shoulders
I read somewhere (Mark Rippetoe?) that spreading the bar will help 'load the lats' on the descent. Kind of like a spring, it will assist in a recoil like effect during the ascent.
Everything Rippetoe says in nonsense. Including this. I’ve never once heard a reasonable explanation on how something like that is physically possible in any way.
Any advice for benching after weightlifters shoulder?
I am curious to know how all these will play out now that IPF has revised the bench press rules.
Huh your the first person I’ve seen workout with vivo barefoot shoes I love using those especially for deadlifts
So from my understanding; you allow your shoulders to retract at the bottom so your elbows go straight down instead of rounding backwards.
1:41 "coming down will be depression"
me at 4 am on many nights
Thank you for this! I've just started getting into lifting and have been feeling like i'm doing bench press all wrong because I can't keep my shoulder blades pinched when I push the weight up. It just feels super unnatural to me. So based on this video, I can start with my shoulder blades pinched but it's ok if they become unpinched on the way up?
Correct.
"Pinch shoulderblades together" cue gives me some fucking jank shoulder pain when benching that I dont get without. I've been benching like this for a few months now, thought it was just "working out around an injury" but seems like its a better way to do it.
Scapular retraction is to keep your shoulders from going into protraction or trying to keep your elbows from flaring too much in efforts to keep the rotator cuffs safe. Although, you bring up some great points I think retraction is necessary
How does retraction keep the rotator cuff safe? Also, why is flaring the elbows bad? You are going to hate to hear it, but flaring is good on bench.
Hi i watched the whole video and hopefully understood most of it, however how can i protect my dodgy left shoulder when benching, and i don't ego lift.
Lastly you said you weren't sure how the whole pinch your shoulders cue came about, and someone mentioned jeff nippard in the comments, stating the literature, retract the shoulders when benching is that not why it's used as a cue, Thanks.
6'5", built like an orangutan, hard stuck at 295lb. I do feel more pec if I stop concentrating on retraction but I also start feeling some shoulder discomfort. I also noticed that retraction automatically means I start elevation as well.
Depression in the shoulders and trying to engage lats ends up feeling like I'm dumping the bar and losing my thoracic extension, though. Overall it's a mess.
Dumbbell press feels amazing and I can throw up 100s in each hand for 10 reps ezpz but I also don't go down as far as with a barbell so I'm assuming my dimensions are just bad. Would be interested to see what you think of depth in bench press and if touching chest is "right" for everybody.
6'5 here too, 6'10 wingspan, always had trouble with bench because of my monkey arms
My understanding was its to put the shoulders in a favorable position (range of motion)
2:05 close grip. I concur with.
Wide grip will snap your rotator cuffs.
Yes it has its place but in moderation.
I agree with the idea that obsession with protraction during the lift may be a problem. I retract my shoulder blades and squirm a lot during my set up in order to get into optimum position to unrack, but I've never had an issue at all with having to squirm around to keep the position once I've unracked. Two times I've developed shoulder issues from benching have both been from being unstable after unracking, and protracting shoulder blades has massively helped with that. I guess if I'm doing higher reps my upper back loses tightness, but I've never really thought about.
Did you just use the words “protraction” and “retraction” in the same exact manner? 🤦🏻♂️
Please do a video on choosing a hip height for sumo deadlift
I have so many videos on this
Hmm, refocussing my bracing has actually helped my shoulder a lot. I do feel like if I lose depression and retraction, my shoulder lets me know about it. However, I do mainly focus on it on the way down, so I may have subconsciously been doing this
1:51 thinking about bending the bar helped with activating my lats.
Personally I like to think about rowing the bar down, but afterwards on the way up, I don't use that cue anymore, so I never have the problem with my shoulders.
I never think about my shoulders during the bench
Thanks for the video, very clear and informative as always. I recently watched your old bench press tutorial, where you do mention to keep the upper back tight: did your bench evolve from 2017 to today and you changed your own cues a bit or was your wording then not as clear as in this video? Also, how do you avoid shoulder protraction when you press, considering the lats (which you suggest to not actively contract) are anterior deltoid antagonists? Do you keep the "pushing my ribcage through my chest with my lats" cue while pressing or you simply focus on pushing your back against the bench as hard as you can?
I don’t remember exactly what I said there but I’ll be putting all of this together in the “how to bench guide”
The way Mark Rippetoe explained it was that it helps keep the bar path higher over the the chest (closer to a straight line down) without putting your shoulder in a compromised position.
I really just wouldn’t be taking advice from Rippetoe. Accomplishing that goal of having the bar go in a straight line would also make your bench worse. So both of those are bad.
@@BrazosValleyStrength I'm not sure why having the bar go in a straight line would make your bench worse; the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. His point was that if your back is flat, you'll have to tuck your elbows more and touch the bar lower to save your shoulders, but if your back is arched, you can touch a bit higher, reducing the horizontal motion in the bar path. I suppose that spinal flexion would give your chest said backwards arch, though.
Well my assumption here is that when you say straight line, you are meaning a line drawn straight down perpendicular to the floor. If that’s not what you mean then I apologize for the misunderstanding there.
But I did mention bar path and range of motion in this video. But neither one is controlled by any muscles on your back. Again, that would be like saying your triceps are dominant in controlling the descent of the bicep curl.
So what if I just cue driving my traps into the bench with leg drive, bring my chest to the bar on the eccentric, and got my back stronger so im using my lats without actually cueing them?
I’m not sure how to answer this. What’s the what if here? What you described is what I said in the video. The main point is not to try to keep your back pinched while pressing as it doesn’t add anything.
I slip on the bench when I start super retracted and then lose that retraction on the way up. Interested to see how that works using info from this video. Maybe starting with less retraction/no intentional retraction will cause less overall change and more stability…
To be clear, I don’t think that retracting some on the descent is bad. It can reduce range of motion and potentially improve bar path. But I imagine that slipping you feel is just what HAS to happen as you press. And that you should be ok with your shoulders coming out of retraction as you press.
@@BrazosValleyStrength definitely, I start over retracted and then think I need to stay in that retraction to not slip. If I just naturally retract and then press without worrying about staying retracted out of bottom I think I’ll be doing what your saying. I’m 29 so this is definitely antithetical to what I’ve always known. I won’t argue with David Woolson though :) worth a shot. Thank you!
Ha well it sounds like you found your way to the right way of doing it! Most people do. They just fight it the whole way.
I have less should pain when i keep my shoulders retracted throughout the whole movement.
Exactly. I've been working out for about 7 years now and the first couple of years I did it with my shoulders protracted and 225lb used to set my shoulders on fire. I was stuck there and usually lifted less to help reduce that shoulder pain. One day I decided to look into why that was happening and I heard about retracting. I tried it and I immediately felt a difference. I can now press 425, shoulder pain free.
As far as I know, this originates from the point that we as humans in everyday life, when we push our shoulder blades open horizontally (protraction), as well as when we do the opposite gesture, our shoulder blades close horizontally (retraction). But, when we are lying on the bench, our scapulae cannot make a natural retraction, due to the weight of our body added to the weight we are lifting, so many experts recommend doing this retraction beforehand and thus avoid shoulder problems or injuries.
I just focus on creating a platform for the pressing muscles. Bench is mostly tricep anyways. The chest is much more of a stabilizer than a prime mover for me and it has worked both for getting muly numbers up aswell as making benching more enjoyable
More of a stabiliser FOR YOU. For many others its chest as prime mover. For different techniques, its chest or tricep.
Drawing my shoulders together and putting my elbows pointing more towards my waist helps getting the bar off the j cups. Maybe because pulling them together lifts me towards the bar more. I don't know. I have no issues with shoulder or anything. I don't think about it during the actual lifting.
I have a video coming this week that might help you here.
Quick question what’s the string attached to the bar for ? At 9:10
RepOne velocity sensor. The link is in the video description and I have a video on warm ups and velocity based training.
Hypertrophy based benching for me is different.. I pack my lats and drop my shoulders DOWN not so much back . I first started ramming my shoulders back in an exaggerated retraction. That was still an omprpvement at the time but I then realised packing my lats and dropping my shoulders gave me the perfect line.
What do you mean by “packing” the lats my lats are pretty “flared” so to speak when I retract and I keep my shoulders low when benching. My goal is to isolate the pec and keep the shoulder joint safe.
@@MrCococda packed = flared. And yeah, same in many chest exercises.
Question: so if someone says my upper back is a weak point in my bench what do they mean? Are they wrong? What type of back training helps with bench press?
That doesn’t mean anything and they are wrong. No back training helps with bench press.
Even pull front and back is more of a health thing. Will keep those shoulders from rolling forward on you. Funny thing is I was taught to squeeze as hard as possible and it doesn't feel good at all even after doing it for years. Get into equipped lifting and deal with weight that I can't keep retracted and I fall into a "natural" more flat position slightly lower and shoulders feel rock solid and base against bench widens creating more stability. Dealing with weight I can't touch raw has shown me my most stabile position and just had to retrain it a bit to make it feel normal. 🙃
My bicep tendons do not like horizontal pressing with protracted or even neutral shoulders when lifting heavy at all. Scapular retraction fixes that and also makes my bench stronger then if I let my shoulders come forward. I suppose I’m just an Anecdote though so maybe that’s just for me.
Well I think to potentially clarify my point for you, I don’t think you should be protracted at all. I also think just about everyone will be in some degree of retraction because of the set up and arch. There is more info on that in the leg drive video.
My primary point is that adding retraction beyond that doesn’t help. Retraction independently of everything else in arch/leg drive probably won’t help the bench strength.
So yea. I think what you are saying is not necessarily different than what I am. But I would credit the reductions in discomfort to reductions in ROM and probably improved bar path over specifically the retraction itself.
Two part answer here because having done both raw and equipped I can speak a little bit on it. Not an expert in any way shape or form just my two cents.
1. For raw, when I draw my shoulder blades down and together it elevates my chest and to me, feels very stable. So by creating a tiny arch, and setting my body up to where the bar is effectively being moved through a decline bench instead of flat which typically is a stronger position for most.
2. In equipped, yes you are using your last to pull the bar to you because the shirt is fighting you but, by having shoulders down and together, your helping keep chest up to shorten that range of motion.
I do see your point and I agree that not all ques are going to work for everyone. Maybe it's more of a build thing where maybe a wider or smaller lifter would benefit from.creating that shorter ROM. Great content as always!
Both of your points are about the descent so I agree. I did talk about that in the video. We just don’t want to try to retract while pressing.
Hit 95kg and 2 weeks later injured my shoulder and chest due to ego and bad form since i was to excited to get stronger I decided to bench 90kg when my right shoulder was injured to bad form and struggling to retract
So my question is, I was always taught to tuck my elbows at the bottom then flair them out once I'm half way through the movement. Is this effective or am I hurting myself in the long run?
Yea generally what you said is correct
Thank you!
So confused now ... I benched 405 for 5 reps consistently last summer . Work injury and over working had to have complete reconstruction this January. First doc says don't bench but if u do , contract the scapula and shoulders in for proper alignment. So is this not correct ?
Doctors tend to not give very good advice surrounding exercise.
I will try to keep my chest up but over all always ignored this idea
I overretracted for years and now I'm dealing with shoulder pain that refuses to go away. I only get it during horizontal pressing though. Vertical & dips are fine for some reason.
My right side is stuck in, what feels like, a constantly retracted state, so much that my right arm is visible "shorter" (not actual length, but because of the retraction) than my left. This is now my resting position. I can't contract my chest properly without feeling a tremendeous amount of tension in my shoulder, and doing the bench press motion with just my arms hurt.
Not sure what to do either. Focusing on more movement of the shoulder blades does not seem to help. Stretching is so frowned upon nowadays that I haven't even bothered with it. PT's in my small town are horrible and doesn't understanding lifting. Their advice is always "stop lifting" essentially.
My suggestion would be to keep doing pressing movements that you can, and that allow full ROM. Some things that have helped me overcome some pec pain is DB Pressing with some protraction at the top, loaded pushups with a slight deficit and full protraction, and any other machine that will allow that full comfortable movement. Sounds like you have tried a lot of things, so that may not help, but it might be a start. Good luck with it.
@@BrazosValleyStrength I might just have to dial everything back and really just emphasize the relative protraction of my right side.
DB's hurt, but pushups have worked semi-well for some time now. They hurt some days, and other days they're fine. Same with dips. Might be the last inch (or whatever) of protraction that I'm incosistent with, because if I don't actively focus on it, it does not happen.
The weird thing for me is that the pain is always in the deepest stretched positon, so I wonder how protracting more helps with that.
Check out MSK nuerology video on bench press cues. Think it will help you out
Like the australian strength coach, Seb Oreb, said is to alternate both ways
*emotional response
can you make a video again ? really i have shoulder pain because of what mainstream taught me you know. can you show how to bench again?
The more retracted my shoulder blades are kept, the less sore my chest will be. I think the chest just becomes less involved and the lift becomes more shoulder and tri dominant