Self-defense claim allowed in Hawaii under special circumstances
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ต.ค. 2024
- Details on Saturdayʻs shooting in Waianae are still under investigation but what would need to be done to prove the shooting was in self defense?
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A guy rams a front loader smashing cars into your home and then opening fire and you have to ask if it was self defense for killing him?
Right !
Hawaii city and county are notoriously ineffective.
Probably, but consider you don't know the whole story. If the aggressor is disarmed or surrenders at some point, then you can't just go ahead and delete.
Not saying that's what happened, but authorities have to consider and confirm the entire scenario.
It’s just protocol. They have to do their investigation. They can’t just take everyone’s word for it.
Ahhhh…. Hawai’i. Don’t bring a gun to a knife fight… Dumbest shit ever spoken! If you have a gun and start getting stabbed. Make sure you don’t take your gun out and defend yourself with that… make sure you use your big boy words
The guy killed 3 people. What more do you need to call it self defense?
Its Hawaii stupid law makers
and how would you have stopped a bull dozer right? You cant just stand there and say stop.
Not in Hawai'i. Stop voting in nutcase legislators! This is why I now live in Arizona and have no desire to move back home. 😒
@@loretomacadaegjr3310I know. Hawai'i prosecutors are out of control lunatics who despise The 2nd Amendment.
EXACTLY! That "protocol" needs to change. There should be no reason to cause further psychological trauma. I recommend everyone arrested for reasons like this start suing the state for that increase in trauma. It's the only thing politicians will listen to.
Hawaii's stand your ground laws need to be revisited. Someone comes into a mans home with bad intentions, and you expect him to flee? Soft
especially if the man just rammed his 2 tons whatever into the property of his neighbor and then ran away, then chasing the man down and shoot him won't justify self defense. Police 99% of the time will shoot the suspect in the car if the suspect continue "moving their vehicle" toward the Cops if already told to stop and get out of their car. This incident here is many times worst looks like.
@@jorgej59162 tons? More like 20 tons, the vehicles his 20 tons were pushing were however closer to 2 tons.
Yeah, this isn't a stand your ground situation. This is a castle doctrine situation where homeowners were attacked in their home and no even in Hawaii under the castle doctrine you are not expected to flee in your home. Some (Prosecutors/DA) would argue that the patio/car port does not fall under the home, but since they are being attacked with lethal force, it would be legally allowable to respond with deadly force.
Victor is a defense attorney?
The whole reason for the gun is to give you a chance not to get killed by a guy with a knife!
Do the cops gotta use a knife against a guy with a knife?
Should an old lady not use a gun against a younger, stronger aggressor?
You might want to pass on Mr. Bakke if you need a defense attorney.
Exactly, he is flat out not explaining it correctly.
Bakke is rubbah! Chin is rubbah. A knife is lethal and therefore a gun is also lethal. A gun can be used to defend oneself in that particular situation. Bakke needs to go over the use of force continuum. Still both rubbah. I want change like so many residents here and voting red in this blue state. The 808 government is rubbah!
I was just about to add this same comment. Do police officers use proportional amounts of force? I dont think so.
I agree with originator of this comment as well as those who support his statement. The defender is not guilty. Laws and procedures tend to support criminal offenders more than the lawful defenders.
Yeah Bakke is a joke of an attorney if he himself doesn't understand, "do not bring a knife to a gunfight."
Please just use common sense and drop charges. That person went through a war in that home ..
Sounds like self defense to me
Yeah because the bulldozer guy wasn't stopping and would have killed more than 3.
@@ItsYoYoHo dats right!
Hawaii violates the constitution...u have the right to remove harm...
Whatever wussies with firearms
not guilty
IC....So if a 6 foot 185 lb man is attacking a 5'-5" 120lb female with his fist and kicks, the female should only BRING HER OWN FIST/FEET to defend herself against that man and hope for the best, or maybe turn her back and try running away so to allow that man to catch up with her from behind and tackle her down and end her day? When a crazy man is using a 2 ton Vehicle crashing into your property/cars/building foundation 2-3 times and has gasoline, HPD is suggesting we should we get out to the car port and get into that.undamaged Toyota corolla and try run up against the 2 ton truck in order to meet that so-called "Proportional force" ie NOT bring a gun to a knife fight". Sounds Theoretically Ideal yet total non-sense.
No - HPD is not suggesting that! It was a very complicated crime scene - the home owner was taken into custody and was released - he wasn’t charged - its a formality -he took a life and victims and the suspect were all deceased- He won’t be charged - the Prosecutor’s Office decides.
dat guy lolo y u tink police always bring gun to a knife fight? smdh
Where I live on the mainland that is a slamdunk case of "stand your ground" and self-defense.
I feel like in this circumstance it’s justified. What do you guys think?
The proof of self defense is right there with that front loader wedged into the house. It is a no brainer. I don't understand how this would not be categorized as self defense.
No jury will convict this guy.
Best comment so far
Is this Crazy...
Self-defense is exactly what this was... defending self and family from neighbor attacking them by bulldozing pushing their cars 🚗 into their home then shooting 🔫 them...
FAMILY WAS ONLY DEFENDING THEM SELVES FROM BEING KILLED!
HORRENDOUSLY HEARTBREAKING!!!
🙏😭 💖👪💖🙏
If the mans life and his families life was in imminent danger on his private property,and the three ladies were carrying then dude had a right to self defense. I don't know the dude, but he had a right to protect him and his family.. Common sense
He has a moral right. Maybe not a legal right. Hawai’i has a duty to retreat law and that may play into this. However, if they put this to trial I can almost guarantee acquittal.
@@reefshadow1 Hawai'i needs a complete overhaul in every way. I'm kamaaina, and it doesn't take a genius to see Hawai'i is in decline..the man they booked to jail, he most likely will be acquitted
@@reefshadow1 Hawaii has a castle doctrine law. There is no legal responsibility for the resident to flee in their home.
@@reefshadow1 Run from a bullet?
@@ComputerHelpHawaii You don't need to ask me the particulars of the rationale as if I am in agreement with it. The fact of the matter is that Hawai'i arrests and charges first, asks questions later. I'm not saying this is the right stance, I'm just saying what IS. I hope you can understand the difference. Aloha.
But if it was a cop, those rules dont apply. They get a vacation. Smh
Paid vacation
as per Arakawa........"pat on da back"
Mr. Blake, you got the 'old saying' wrong--exactly opposite of what you said. The saying is, 'Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.'
Is a knife not lethal force? Crazy if someone pulls a knife on you and you rightfully defend yourself with a legal firearm you would be in the wrong.
so he needed to find his own front loader if his lucky enough to find one to stop the front loader that is trying to kill his family?? makes no sense whoever made this law..
One cannot use a deadly weapon type G to defend against a deadly weapon type K? Not good. (I wish people were more respectful of life and just more respectful and considerate in general.)
Thank goodness he stopped the threat!!! Not guilty unless otherwise... condolences to the family's who lost their loved ones 🙏 😔
In the states they allowed a women to shoot the man who was breaking into her house and was approaching her not armed. While she was on the phone with 911. She was not charged
Every state has its own rules
Unable to retreat in the face of bodily harm is generally a good defense in these situations. Plus, woman vs male aggressor.
“In the states”…. Meaning Hawaii is…..?
WE GOT ANCIENT BASS ACKWARD LAWS HERE
@@Yohann67 its just another term for
"The mainland" that we use here on the islands.
Someone threatens me with a knife on my property I have to defend myself with a knife too? ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!!!!
The lawyer gets the proportionality aspect of defensive use of force correct then goes haywire on the gun to a knife fight analogy. Both weapons can cause death or serious bodily injury so, legally, the use of either is proportionally equal to the other.
So the PD are equipped with knifes just in case a suspect is charging them with a knife ?
first try.....pepper spray.............2nd try......service gun. dunno if they still carry, but baton.
Law of the Splintered paddle cuz
Really No Question SELF DEFENSE. PRAYERS 🙏& THOUGHTS FOR THOSES LOST 🕊🕊🕊
Also, the police should not have arrested - they should have DETAINED. If lawmakers need to tweak detention scope, then do that. Come on Hawaii.
Absolutely self-defense! There are bodies on the ground! What is proportional to a FRONT LOADER!
If you’re waiting for the police to protect you in Hawaii, you will lose your family. Hasn’t been a time I called the police and 2 hours later and a donut stained officer pulls up like, “What going on here?” Let people protect themselves. Because the main objective in life, is to continue to have life.
"You can't bring a gun to a knife fight" what? So if someone is going to stab you, and all you have is a gun, you legally can't shoot them? Is that what he is trying to say? Kind of ironic with a right to bear arms...
Dude came in there like the Terminator
well...........he did get terminated for his unlawful and deadly actions.
So the family wouldve had to wait till either the cops came to save them and stop this guy or untill he murdered everyone in the home? What?
You cannot bring a gun to a knife fight lmao what a joke that guy
Self Defense should be defined the federal government, not states.
Of course that was self defense! The man who got shot was using a machine and a gun to hurt people and he got shot for it. We really need a stand your ground laws and support for the second amendment in the State and Counties in Hawaii. Murder is a crime. Defending yourself from a threat thats invading your home or someone threatening your life outside your home is a right no one should ever have to worry about.
Hawaii sounds pretty FKd. That is the whole point. Is to stop ANY assault from ANYONE. If they have a knife and you have a gun. So be it.
It's amazing how much rights that criminals have over citizens in Hawaii. SAD
The citizens have voted their rights away in places like Hawaii, N.Y., .CA, WA, OR, MN and IL. Minnesota's AG says you have no right to self defense. Nobody to blame but themselves.
What an F ing joke. If that is not self-defense, I don't know what is anymore? The guys killed 3 women. Could have been his daughters, nieces, mom, or auntie. Are you just supposed to watch it happen and do nothing until the cops get there? When you know there is a shortage in police force out there.🤯🤦♂️
By that context, should the have gotten into another front loader and duke it out? Dont think s
It would also appear by the images that the aggressor trespassed into his property too.
a gun to a knife fight HPD does that all the time
Proportional 😂 WTF.......
I know a few people in Hawaii that had to defend themselves. Judges know the law, keep innocent people out of prison!
Self Defense!!
Absolutely necessary
LAWYERS IS LIARS , THE MORE MONEY YOU GIVE , THE MORE LIE'S THEIR SAY.
Many when attacked by one or more are at a obvious physical and technical disatvantage in self defense, thus the use of a weapon such as a gun etc... is valid and warrented to defend onself and family ,friends, etc.. from the attackers hostility to their health, life. Gun to knife or Gun to fists are unfair is nonsense and you would be a fool to not use your weapon and be beaten to death or beaten and your weapon taken from you and used against your own self. You need to defend yourself and family , its common sense and instinct.
Yea..its self defence
I feel like Doctor fking Obvious for even having to say this
Here in Florida…? “Go home and please be safe…hug your family and call us if there’s any trouble”! Good bye!
So, does this apply to the police department when they shoot and kill someone trying to hit them with a car. Do they get arrested or just take time off with pay.
😂wtf should have just let Japan have the island after Pearl Harbor
you don't have to prove self-defense ( innocent till proof of guilt ) they have to prove you guilty, GOD GIVEN RIGHT OF SELF-DEFENSE... same as if it was a cop that shot the suspect.. i'm sick and tired of lawyers trying to make money of of innocent, hard working people by going along with this lie of arrest first then find out what crime was commited
So they want us to have knife fights? Seems risky.
apparently not according to hpd, who arrested the guy that saved his family and threw his butt in jail. good job hpd!
Problem would have not started if ppl wasn’t acting handy and burning rubber and speeding
"Proportional self defense" meaning you can not bring a gun to a knife fight is beyond stupid and crazy! I have a gun and some attacker has a knife, so then I have to not use my gun while the knife murderer sticks me with his knife. No way will that happen, if such a situation ever comes up. Only an idiot would obey that sort of self-defense nonsense.
So a guy comes around and says let me cowboy around. He brought a bigger knife to the fight
That was a legal shoot. Common sense.
Silva was a menace to that entire neighborhood
If a police officer can use deadly force on a person using a car to try and rundown, it should be allowed by all legal gun owners.
I dont know what actually happened at the house that night, but Ive read comments that say Silva rammed his front loader into the house , shot some people , and then fled. I read that somebody from the house chased him down and shot him outside the neighbors property line. To be honest , if Silva has been found dead on the neighbors property , the self defense claim would have been solid. But im guessing Silvas body was found down the street somewhere. That makes the " self defense " claim harder to prove. Not taking sides , by the way , just sharing what Ive read in other Comment sections.
Silva didn’t fled the scene.
@@TianaTavale Oh. So Silva was shot on the other people's property ? Are you sure about that ? We're you there ?
@@sarahrose4126 Yes I was there 🙄
I had heard a report that the “dead” suspect had been shot in the back, as if fleeing the scene after he rammed the vehicles and house then shot the ladies. When someone is shot in the back the self defense claim is more difficult, yes even in Texas. This might be the technicality that is the obstacle. Ultimately this antagonist didn’t bring a knife to a gun fight, he brought a 20 ton loader AND a gun. The force was proportional and he was in the commission of a crime so I don’t think charges will stick.
@TianaTavale So you saw the body and he was on the neighbors property ? Others are saying he was shot in the back and appeared to have been fleeing. Are you saying they have it all wrong ? To be fair to everyone , it was 11 at night. Unless a security camera caught Silva driving the front loader, leaving the front loader , and then somehow or another getting shot in the back , how would you know exactly what happened? The little security camera footage ive seen was from under the porch footage. It doesn't show who was driving the front loader , only people fleeing the carnage. Do you have security footage of Silvas face driving the loader, shooting off a gun , and then fleeing ? If you do , we'd all love to see that. Without that , these are all just stories that are hard to corroborate either which way. It's pretty dark at 11 PM. People were afraid and scrambling . A lot can happen in the cover of darkness.
Disgusting
So if someone is trying fo stab me, and i get my ccw..
I cannot use em is what he basically said.. suckin lolo, absolutely ridiculous..
Get these guys out of here.
Brother you knew you walked the line. The Hatfield's & MC coys .Two Ends , One Meet. La'auli Jake Malae Shalom.
Ist dann der Frontlader das Messer in der Geschichte? Wenn ich legal eine Schusswaffe besitzen darf und irgendein Nachbar meint, weil er mich und meine Familie nicht mag, er müsste uns mit seinem Frontlader über den Haufen fahren, dann darf ich mich nur mit einem ähnlichen Gegenstand zur Wehr setzen? Wie lächerlich ist das denn?
Keep voting blue Hawaii.
Blue state, voters responsible for these democratic laws!
Democracy over fascism. Fool
Doug Chin, the CCP poster boy in Hawaii.
An edged weapon is deadly force. I can meet your deadly force with another deadly force weapon to stop your criminal attack. Including a firearm. Oh yes you can use a gun in a knife fight if you are a true victim. However, most encounters are actually mutual combat in A State of Hawai'i. 😅😅😅😅
Democratic laws produce these types of results. Ya get what ya vote for.
Democracy over fascism
@@lovely-mk4rt care to elaborate?
This has nothing to do with politics.
@@LonnieBrewer-dd4wi it has everything to do with politics. Democrats run the state of hawaii, Democrats make up these laws that arrest victims for defending themselves so yes it has everything to do with politics
Hawaii is a democratic state, it is run and owned and sold off by democrats, democrats make the laws that arrest victims and prosecute victims for defending themselves, so yes, it has everything to do with politics.@@LonnieBrewer-dd4wi
Thats bull shit if he has a knife and charge you you can drop him down but you cant chase them if thay run because you have a gun
Don't know the circumstance but don't like the idea of automatically charging the guy with murder then releasing him. It goes on your record. Though you may not be charged it still shows you were arrested.
Let’s treat these situations like Texas does
Sounds like in the USA you're not allowed to defend yourself and criminals are allowed the upper hand to do what they want.
So he should have gotten a bulldozer and went at the attacker with that?🙄 Ridiculous! He was in kill or be killed mode. That's called self defence!!!
also.....even if he did survive, he would be LIPNP and the business would shutter.....
you come at me you will say hello too 230 grains of copper and lead
A gun vs heavy machinery is self defense
Even in California this would be self defense.
Hmmm 1 pound gun versus multi-ton front loader. Proportionality? Defender is not guilty. Legal system ? ? ? or justice system ? ? ? Which one do we have ? ? ?
Stupid laws !
Was it self defense? Hawaii laws make it so that we are all sitting ducks. Maybe if two bulldozers came crashing into your home, would thst be considered a legal time to defend yourself?
I wish Hawaii was a stand your ground state but we’re a democratic state it will never happen
No stand your ground this isn't Florida or Ohio.😎🤙
And we don’t want to be like Florida!
So no common sense laws? Got it.
@@hectorrivera6624 boo hoo Go live in Ohio...
@@ClarkKent-bi7oq You the only one crying. LOL. I live in Hawaii and will defend my family with my guns. If you dont...well that shows the kind of person you are. Kudos for the guy with the gun who saved lots more lives.😂😂
@@hectorrivera6624 gun fights is for Chicago and Texas Not Hawaii 🇬🇧
Hawaii needs change this coming November. Time to throw out the towel for a Democratic state.
The podagee had a gun and was shooting. Justified self defense. No brainer
Not unless the perpetrator were to break into your house and threaten you or your family member with a deadly weapon? You can fire your handgun. As a registered gun owner, that’s the only thing that is required for the law in the state of Hawaii. But in this case? Two of the men are at fault here…..! The first thing that HPD will look into is if both(men) are registered gun owners? Second, were they certified to carry an opened concealed weapon at all times? And third, did both(men) achieve a certificate for completing the course of laws in Hawaii and hands-on in operating a handgun/pistol?
None of those things should matter compared to the details of the event.
@@Higher-Veda It matters to the law in the state of Hawaii.
Not guilty