I think we should always allow Frank on so long as he is respectful. Allah guides whosoever He wills and it may even be deep down Frank has comfort in always talking to Muslims and that he is finding it very hard to let go of what he has held onto and believe in for so many years. May Allah guide him to the straight path. Aameen.
Does Frodo not understand that people are judged by their intention and their individual specific case? If a person looks into the religion and comes to a wrong conclusion based on some limitation in their intellect or understanding, then that limitation will be taken into account. If someone explains to them the religion and there is some fault in the explanation that makes it harder to accept, that fault will be taken into account. Allah will judge us upon supreme justice, taking into account factors that we have never fully considered even about ourselves. He is more just than we can even conceive of.
THERE'S NO TRUTH THEN THE ULTIMATE TRUTH OF THE TRUE,TRI-UNE GOD OF THE BIBLE AND THE MESSAGE OF SALVATION OF MANKIND FOR MANKINDS REDEMPTION BACK TO GOD,IE THE CRUCIFIXTION,DEATH AND RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE FREE GIFT OF SALVATIOM!!
@desmondmansingh5175 How could anyone believe in a GOD that has Three Heads? A Head of an Old Man, A Head of an Abused Man and the Head of a Bird. A Three Headed GOD.
@@lastword8783 Its not about being rude...its about the honest analysis of this poor individual. Nobody wants to insult or let down Frank. However he keeps bringing childish arguments.
Otangelo also came to Muslim Lantern live streaming recently with the same argument that Shroud of Turin somehow prove that Christianity is the truth And both failed miserably
@kern... hang on fella i have been through this loop you will feel lost but you have answers inside of you that are there.... Anyhow pray to god ask him to guide you while your heart is open
According to Rabbi Singer the spices were only used to cover the odor of the deteriorating corpse so people in the funeral procession would not be offended. Once the body is buried there is no need for the spices. The body was of course washed by men. Women would never have washed the nude body of a man. Even the Catholic church has not pronounced the shroud to be a true relic. To Abbas: Why would you add patches? The answer is: The Shroud was almost destroyed in a fire. There were burn holes and the Poor Clare Nuns tried to effect repairs to it sometime in the 1500's.
You have completely misunderstood what Tovia singer was referring to. His whole argument was that the story of empty tomb was just a made up story. What he argues is that there is no point of putting spices on already rotting body. So the women visiting the tomb to put spices on jesus body could not have happened, but it was forged just to introduce the empty tomb story in the bible.
@@funnything7 Rabbi Singer has addressed this on more than one occasion. I did not misunderstand. That's your opinion and you are welcome to it but funny thing that does not make it, like the narration in the Bible a fact.
There is no scientific explanation for how the image on the shroud was made. I say that makes it a miracle. How many people who were crucified do you think were subject to miracles?
@@frankszantoExactly. We don’t know how many and who. There are miracles that happen to this day. At most it’s a presumption that adds to existing belief, at worst it’s nothing but coincidence (if real).
والله العظيم ماكتبت هاذا المناشده الا من الجوع والفقر ياعالم حسو فينا سِالُتكِ بّالُلُُه انَ تْنَقًذَنَا قًبّلُ انَ نَمٌوَتْ مٌنَ شِدِتْ الُجْوَع انَتٌْخيَكِ انَيَ دٌِخلُةِ ْعلُى الُلُُه تْمٌ ْعلُيَكِ انَيَ فَيَ وَجُْهك انَـيَ اخـتْكِ انَـيَ اتْرَجْـاكِ اتْـوَسِـلُ الُـيَـكِ انَـقًـذَنَا لُـوَجُْـه الُـلُُـه. يَــشِــُهدِ الُــلُــُه يَاٌخـيَ انَ مٌنَ الُــصّــبّاحُ حُـتْا الُـانَ يَــحُــرَمٌ ْعـــلُيَـنَـا الاكل غير الماء ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' My brother, my first words are: I swear to God that I will not lie to you or deceive you. I am a Yemeni girl displaced from the war. My family and I live in a rented house in Al-Shahrab 15,000 Yemenis among us, and now we owe 45,000 for 3 months. The owner of the house is one of the people who does not have mercy, by God, my brother. He comes every day, insulting us, talking about us, and moving from the house to the street because we were unable to pay him the rent. The neighbors saw us crying and came back.They came back to talk to the neighbors and we were given the weekend. So we made him swear by God. He will take us out into the street. Have mercy on him and us. Our country is due to this war and we do not find food for our day, and my brothers and I live in a difficult life. Our father died, may God have mercy on him, and we have no one in this world who was with us in these harsh circumstances. My younger brothers went out into the street and saw...The neighbors eat and stand at their door in order to give them bread even if they break it. By God, to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, they closed the door and expelled them and came back crying. They are dying of hunger. No one has mercy on them and a holiday is returned. I have made a living, and now if one of us helps us with a kilo of flour, I swear to God, I am dying of hunger. My brother, I am an alien to God. Then, I ask you to help me for the sake of God. I ask you, by God, to love goodness and to help me, even if you can, by messaging me on WhatsApp.On this number 00967717591071 and ask for the name of my card and send it and do not be late and may God reward you with all the best, my brothers Sagar, see how they are and help us and save us before they throw us out in the street, you will be lost or we will die of hunger. My family and I ask you, by God, if you are able to help us, do not be late and may God reward you weاπ~π~π~π~÷~ππ~π~^~°÷~π~÷~π~π~π~π،.،،......................🎉😢😢😢😢😢...........
Actually Frodo's question is just a question from simple human being with pure heart. I remember I once asked the same question when I started reading and learning Quran when I was 8 or 9 years old. At that time, the question was rised when I heard an imam in jum'ah khutbah citing about hadith that a muslim can go to hell just because of urinate. At that time, I was very angry to Allah because He is so cruel. If urinate can make you go to hell which is it's not a sin (but natural thing), then what about a small sin ? After that incident, I was more focusing on reading Quran and it's meaning instead of hadith. I keep reading and understand Quran even now I am in my 45s, and my perspective is changed. Now, I believe that most people including muslims, christians, etc, are misguided. I mean, people change their religion by changing the meaning of their scriptures. Allah already warned this in Quran... How to indicate "we" are misguided? It's simple and we can check it from Quran. If a guy, a muslim, for example, say that he's going to heaven because following islam and other who are christians and jews will go to hell because not following islam, then that's absolutely misguided. After 30 years of learning Quran, I come up with conclusion: it is human who make the religion wrong, not the scripture itself, but how? hadith is one example. Hadith is actually can make people misguided, because hadith can changed the Quran.
people change their religion by changing the meaning of their scriptures." Exactly and we can find muslims changing the meaning of their scriptures in 51:47. Initially, muslims said that 51:47 meant the universe was big, or ample, or vast, or huge. Then after Hubble proved the universe was expanding, suddenly muslims started saying that 51:47 meant the universe is expanding. The meaning changed from ample or vast to expanding after science learned it was expanding.
"hadith is one example. Hadith is actually can make people misguided, because hadith can changed the Quran." Actually, misguided people tend to make such a silly claim.
This change comes from the idea/belief that your holy book is from a god. If you believe it's from a god, then you will believe it's right, no matter what it says. You will just say that you didn't really understand it. If a muslim find "2+2=100" in their quran, they will not admit their quran is wrong, they will do whatever they can to make that equation correct......because their god cannot be wrong, it MUST be that they do not understand.
it is human who make the religion wrong, not the scripture itself," That's exactly what I was just saying. Muslims will claim they didn't understand the quran, not that the quran is wrong. They will claim that "2+2=100" can't be wrong, it is themself that doesn't understand.
Brother Abbas, pls leave most of the talking to Dr Imran or Ijaz. If you must go on a long tangent, pls try understanding the caller's POV first & then fashion your reply according to the caller's claim. Pls🙏 Dr Imran & Ijaz both are armed with knowledge that we want to benefit from. I'm grateful you educated yourself on the topic of evolution. It's frustrating when you keep on talking out of ignorance
This link is for an interview with Barrie Schwortz, who was the photographer on the 1978 Shroud of Turin Research Project. He is a Jew and was a sceptic, but came to believe that the shroud was genuine. th-cam.com/video/UpMStZ_7ikQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=kSFfgYMYtb4mqbTd
_"In all the places where they pretend to have the graveclothes, they show a large piece of linen by which the whole body, including the head, was covered, and, accordingly, the figure exhibited is that of an entire body. But the Evangelist John relates that Christ was buried, "as is the manner of the Jews to bury." What that manner was may be learned, not only from the Jews, by whom it is still observed, but also from their books, which explain what the ancient practice was. It was this: The body was wrapped up by itself as far as the shoulders, and then the head by itself was bound round with a napkin, tied by the four corners, into a knot. And this is expressed by the Evangelist, when he says that Peter saw the linen clothes in which the body had been wrapped lying in one place, and the napkin which had been wrapped about the head lying in another. The term napkin may mean either a handkerchief employed to wipe the face, or it may mean a shawl, but never means a large piece of linen in which the whole body may be wrapped. I have, however, used the term in the sense which they improperly give to it. On the whole, either the Evangelist John must have given a false account, or every one of them must be convicted of falsehood, thus making it manifest that they have too impudently imposed on the unlearned."_ Treatise on Relics written by John Calvin in 1543 (from Wikipedia)
_Radiocarbon dating has established that the shroud is medieval, and not from the time of Jesus._ _Some proponents for the authenticity of the shroud have attempted to discount the radiocarbon dating result by claiming that the sample may represent a medieval "invisible" repair fragment rather than the image-bearing cloth. However, all of the hypotheses used to challenge the radiocarbon dating have been scientifically refuted, including the medieval repair hypothesis, the bio-contamination hypothesis and the carbon monoxide hypothesis._ _In 1998, shroud researcher Joe Nickell wrote that no examples of herringbone weave are known from the time of Jesus. The few samples of burial cloths that are known from the era are made using plain weave. In 2000, fragments of a burial shroud from the 1st century were discovered in a tomb near Jerusalem, believed to have belonged to a Jewish high priest or member of the aristocracy. Based on this discovery, the researchers concluded that the Turin Shroud did not originate from Jesus-era Jerusalem._ (from Wikipedia)
_In 2015, Italian researchers Barcaccia et al. published a new study in Scientific Reports. They examined the human and non-human DNA found when the shroud and its backing cloth were vacuumed in 1977 and 1988. They found traces of 19 different plant taxa, including plants native to Mediterranean countries, Central Europe, North Africa, the Middle East, Eastern Asia (China) and the Americas. Of the human mtDNA, sequences were found belonging to haplogroups that are typical of various ethnicities and geographic regions, including Europe, North and East Africa, the Middle East and India. A few non-plant and non-human sequences were also detected, including various birds and one ascribable to a marine worm common in the Northern Pacific Ocean, next to Canada. After sequencing some DNA of pollen and dust found on the shroud, they confirmed that many people from many different places came in contact with the shroud. According to the scientists, "such diversity does not exclude a Medieval origin in Europe but it would be also compatible with the historic path followed by the Turin Shroud during its presumed journey from the Near East. Furthermore, the results raise the possibility of an Indian manufacture of the linen cloth."_ (from Wikipedia)
@@zaquanbhfssa No, he didn't do the carbon dating, and I did not suggest that he did. But I have already stated that the sample used for carbon dating was contaminated by newer material.
I am not sure what this has to do with anything I said, but where does the Quran say this about the ark? And by the way, the Quran contains no historical facts other than what it has copied directly from the Bible.
The person in the shroud looks more like a 60 year old man rather than a 30 year old demi-god. If you look at the hands on the shroud, there are NO nail marks, either through the hands or wrists. ALSO, there is no gaping wound from the roman centurion on his side 🤔
@desmondmansingh5175 I've never come across an eye witness statement of the crucifixion. Could you let me know the passage? It would be nice to read it, Thanks.
Tenant vs Tenet Tenant: someone who rents land or property from the owner, usually for the purpose of accomodation or business. Example: The tenant is late in paying his monthly rent. Tenet: a belief or principle, especially one of the main principles of a religion or philosophy. Example: The absolute oneness of God is the core tenet of Islam.
Frodo, have you ever considered that your basic understanding of English, both in oral and reading comprehension, might be lacking? You really need to go back to school, bro-you’re not understanding what you read or what people are trying to tell you.
Ijaz the verses you quote in OT,you quote completely out of context and misinterpret verses by means of deceit and lies!! Your only weak argument is preservation or corruption of torah and injeel,this is your only way out with no proof at all,you mention this because Jews not accepting muhammed as a prophet!!
Jeremiah called the Torah a LIE. Here's your proof that the Torah is corrupted. Jer 8:8 “How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us’? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes has made it into a LIE.
Everything abbas waffle about formular etc.only came in 7th century when the deceitful allah send jibreel to give muhammed the revelation,didn't even spoke directly to false prophet muhammed rather used a mediator unlike in Bible,God spoke directly to prophets!!
Jeremiah called the Torah a LIE. Here's your proof that the Torah is corrupted. Jer 8:8 “How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us’? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes has made it into a LIE.
You guys are either running out of content or think that there’s any point in talking to Frank. Please refrain from having him as your regular guest- it’s almost like he’s part of the show.
700 likes with over 9000 views come on everyone, they deserve better
I was born and raised into a Christian family. As an adult I made the choice and convert to Islam.
The internet was the worst thing that could have possibly happened to Christian.
😬😬😬
*Timestamps:*
00:00 - Intro
01:06 - EF Dawah Panel join: Format of the Stream
04:10 - *Frank (Christian) joins*
41:09 - *Kern (Agnostic) joins*
1:42:22 - *Frodo (Ex-Muslim) joins*
Brother Ijaz, MashaAllah congratulations 🎊
Can you please open with a disclaimer warning that Frank will be on the show... I don't want to lose any more brain cells listening to his nonsense!
Agree! The Dunning-Kruger effect on that man is insane.
Second to that, big bold warning
As true as it is and funny let's hope Frank finds Allah in his time what he has left...
AMIN @@IsaacLani-z2d
I think we should always allow Frank on so long as he is respectful.
Allah guides whosoever He wills and it may even be deep down Frank has comfort in always talking to Muslims and that he is finding it very hard to let go of what he has held onto and believe in for so many years.
May Allah guide him to the straight path.
Aameen.
MasAllah our brothers in Islam have so much respect and sabur.
The guy in the shroud looks scarily similar to Frank!
😂😂😂😂
جزاكم الله خيرا
JazakAllah'u khairan brothers 🇵🇸🤲🏻
Br. Iman's opening to Frank "Not Crucifixion because its required"...was a Sucker 👊!!
keep up the beautiful work brother's may ❤️❤❤☝️الله❤❤❤ bless all and everyone making dawah امين يارب العالمين.
jazakum Allahu khairan
wonderful insightful stream alhamdullilah may allah reward the panel
Does Frodo not understand that people are judged by their intention and their individual specific case?
If a person looks into the religion and comes to a wrong conclusion based on some limitation in their intellect or understanding, then that limitation will be taken into account.
If someone explains to them the religion and there is some fault in the explanation that makes it harder to accept, that fault will be taken into account.
Allah will judge us upon supreme justice, taking into account factors that we have never fully considered even about ourselves. He is more just than we can even conceive of.
THERE'S NO TRUTH THEN THE ULTIMATE TRUTH OF THE TRUE,TRI-UNE GOD OF THE BIBLE AND THE MESSAGE OF SALVATION OF MANKIND FOR MANKINDS REDEMPTION BACK TO GOD,IE THE CRUCIFIXTION,DEATH AND RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE FREE GIFT OF SALVATIOM!!
@@desmondmansingh5175 Tri-une god ?!?!? 3=1 ?!?! Killing your god wasn't enough for you, right? You also kill the math huh?! Poor christians...
@desmondmansingh5175
How could anyone believe in a GOD that has Three Heads? A Head of an Old Man, A Head of an Abused Man and the Head of a Bird. A Three Headed GOD.
@@desmondmansingh5175 which among the countless versions of bible do you believed to be the true one?
Every time Frank comes to the stream, he proves that his stupidity is growing by leaps and bounds. We agree with him!
- Couldn't agree more!!......that's what Aussies are all about!!
Dont be rude.
How can a Muslim call someone stupid when you believe the Quran - a book filled with nonsense?
@@lastword8783 Its not about being rude...its about the honest analysis of this poor individual.
Nobody wants to insult or let down Frank. However he keeps bringing childish arguments.
To all the brothers barakaAllahfikum for you efforts on every level!
baraka allahu fikum
Otangelo also came to Muslim Lantern live streaming recently with the same argument that Shroud of Turin somehow prove that Christianity is the truth
And both failed miserably
Yeah saw that, 40 years wasted, actually felt sorry for him,
As soon as I see Frank, I say now what?
Fredo was worst to be honest mental guest
❤❤❤
@kern... hang on fella i have been through this loop you will feel lost but you have answers inside of you that are there.... Anyhow pray to god ask him to guide you while your heart is open
Brother Abbas was in a good mood 😂
Abbas/imran- if someone is not convinced with ur explanation it doesn’t mean they r insincere/dishonest… its just they r not convinced by u guys
Frank u know all have is lies!!!
❤
According to Rabbi Singer the spices were only used to cover the odor of the deteriorating corpse so people in the funeral procession would not be offended. Once the body is buried there is no need for the spices. The body was of course washed by men. Women would never have washed the nude body of a man. Even the Catholic church has not pronounced the shroud to be a true relic. To Abbas: Why would you add patches? The answer is: The Shroud was almost destroyed in a fire. There were burn holes and the Poor Clare Nuns tried to effect repairs to it sometime in the 1500's.
You have completely misunderstood what Tovia singer was referring to. His whole argument was that the story of empty tomb was just a made up story. What he argues is that there is no point of putting spices on already rotting body. So the women visiting the tomb to put spices on jesus body could not have happened, but it was forged just to introduce the empty tomb story in the bible.
@@funnything7 Rabbi Singer has addressed this on more than one occasion. I did not misunderstand. That's your opinion and you are welcome to it but funny thing that does not make it, like the narration in the Bible a fact.
Even if the shroud was 1st century, how does anyone know WHO the actual person is?
There is no scientific explanation for how the image on the shroud was made. I say that makes it a miracle. How many people who were crucified do you think were subject to miracles?
@@frankszantoExactly. We don’t know how many and who. There are miracles that happen to this day. At most it’s a presumption that adds to existing belief, at worst it’s nothing but coincidence (if real).
@frankszanto I would say at least 3 people, 4 if you include barabus
والله العظيم ماكتبت هاذا المناشده الا من الجوع والفقر ياعالم حسو فينا سِالُتكِ بّالُلُُه انَ تْنَقًذَنَا قًبّلُ انَ نَمٌوَتْ مٌنَ شِدِتْ الُجْوَع انَتٌْخيَكِ انَيَ دٌِخلُةِ ْعلُى الُلُُه تْمٌ ْعلُيَكِ انَيَ فَيَ وَجُْهك انَـيَ اخـتْكِ انَـيَ اتْرَجْـاكِ اتْـوَسِـلُ الُـيَـكِ انَـقًـذَنَا لُـوَجُْـه الُـلُُـه. يَــشِــُهدِ الُــلُــُه يَاٌخـيَ انَ مٌنَ الُــصّــبّاحُ حُـتْا الُـانَ يَــحُــرَمٌ ْعـــلُيَـنَـا الاكل غير الماء ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' My brother, my first words are: I swear to God that I will not lie to you or deceive you. I am a Yemeni girl displaced from the war. My family and I live in a rented house in Al-Shahrab 15,000 Yemenis among us, and now we owe 45,000 for 3 months. The owner of the house is one of the people who does not have mercy, by God, my brother. He comes every day, insulting us, talking about us, and moving from the house to the street because we were unable to pay him the rent. The neighbors saw us crying and came back.They came back to talk to the neighbors and we were given the weekend. So we made him swear by God. He will take us out into the street. Have mercy on him and us. Our country is due to this war and we do not find food for our day, and my brothers and I live in a difficult life. Our father died, may God have mercy on him, and we have no one in this world who was with us in these harsh circumstances. My younger brothers went out into the street and saw...The neighbors eat and stand at their door in order to give them bread even if they break it. By God, to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, they closed the door and expelled them and came back crying. They are dying of hunger. No one has mercy on them and a holiday is returned. I have made a living, and now if one of us helps us with a kilo of flour, I swear to God, I am dying of hunger. My brother, I am an alien to God. Then, I ask you to help me for the sake of God. I ask you, by God, to love goodness and to help me, even if you can, by messaging me on WhatsApp.On this number 00967717591071 and ask for the name of my card and send it and do not be late and may God reward you with all the best, my brothers Sagar, see how they are and help us and save us before they throw us out in the street, you will be lost or we will die of hunger. My family and I ask you, by God, if you are able to help us, do not be late and may God reward you weاπ~π~π~π~÷~ππ~π~^~°÷~π~÷~π~π~π~π،.،،......................🎉😢😢😢😢😢...........
8:17 abit like the Bible then Frank? 👀
Actually Frodo's question is just a question from simple human being with pure heart. I remember I once asked the same question when I started reading and learning Quran when I was 8 or 9 years old. At that time, the question was rised when I heard an imam in jum'ah khutbah citing about hadith that a muslim can go to hell just because of urinate. At that time, I was very angry to Allah because He is so cruel. If urinate can make you go to hell which is it's not a sin (but natural thing), then what about a small sin ? After that incident, I was more focusing on reading Quran and it's meaning instead of hadith. I keep reading and understand Quran even now I am in my 45s, and my perspective is changed. Now, I believe that most people including muslims, christians, etc, are misguided. I mean, people change their religion by changing the meaning of their scriptures. Allah already warned this in Quran... How to indicate "we" are misguided? It's simple and we can check it from Quran. If a guy, a muslim, for example, say that he's going to heaven because following islam and other who are christians and jews will go to hell because not following islam, then that's absolutely misguided. After 30 years of learning Quran, I come up with conclusion: it is human who make the religion wrong, not the scripture itself, but how? hadith is one example. Hadith is actually can make people misguided, because hadith can changed the Quran.
people change their religion by changing the meaning of their scriptures."
Exactly and we can find muslims changing the meaning of their scriptures in 51:47. Initially, muslims said that 51:47 meant the universe was big, or ample, or vast, or huge. Then after Hubble proved the universe was expanding, suddenly muslims started saying that 51:47 meant the universe is expanding.
The meaning changed from ample or vast to expanding after science learned it was expanding.
"hadith is one example. Hadith is actually can make people misguided, because hadith can changed the Quran."
Actually, misguided people tend to make such a silly claim.
This change comes from the idea/belief that your holy book is from a god. If you believe it's from a god, then you will believe it's right, no matter what it says. You will just say that you didn't really understand it.
If a muslim find "2+2=100" in their quran, they will not admit their quran is wrong, they will do whatever they can to make that equation correct......because their god cannot be wrong, it MUST be that they do not understand.
it is human who make the religion wrong, not the scripture itself,"
That's exactly what I was just saying. Muslims will claim they didn't understand the quran, not that the quran is wrong. They will claim that "2+2=100" can't be wrong, it is themself that doesn't understand.
@@MrBebaslepas Well, why didn't you prove that it was silly? Is it because you can't?
Plz change the background music,PLZ
you have music on videos you have saved and watched on your own page you Hypocrit
Frank - not frank. Dishonest.....?!?
Caught in 4K.....!?!
😬😬😬
READ ACTS:17V30-31
That book deserve in garbage
frank but dark
Brother Abbas, pls leave most of the talking to Dr Imran or Ijaz. If you must go on a long tangent, pls try understanding the caller's POV first & then fashion your reply according to the caller's claim. Pls🙏 Dr Imran & Ijaz both are armed with knowledge that we want to benefit from. I'm grateful you educated yourself on the topic of evolution. It's frustrating when you keep on talking out of ignorance
This link is for an interview with Barrie Schwortz, who was the photographer on the 1978 Shroud of Turin Research Project. He is a Jew and was a sceptic, but came to believe that the shroud was genuine. th-cam.com/video/UpMStZ_7ikQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=kSFfgYMYtb4mqbTd
Is he the one who do carbon dating? What would the photographer known about carbon dating? Be more frank here frank
_"In all the places where they pretend to have the graveclothes, they show a large piece of linen by which the whole body, including the head, was covered, and, accordingly, the figure exhibited is that of an entire body. But the Evangelist John relates that Christ was buried, "as is the manner of the Jews to bury." What that manner was may be learned, not only from the Jews, by whom it is still observed, but also from their books, which explain what the ancient practice was. It was this: The body was wrapped up by itself as far as the shoulders, and then the head by itself was bound round with a napkin, tied by the four corners, into a knot. And this is expressed by the Evangelist, when he says that Peter saw the linen clothes in which the body had been wrapped lying in one place, and the napkin which had been wrapped about the head lying in another. The term napkin may mean either a handkerchief employed to wipe the face, or it may mean a shawl, but never means a large piece of linen in which the whole body may be wrapped. I have, however, used the term in the sense which they improperly give to it. On the whole, either the Evangelist John must have given a false account, or every one of them must be convicted of falsehood, thus making it manifest that they have too impudently imposed on the unlearned."_
Treatise on Relics written by John Calvin in 1543 (from Wikipedia)
_Radiocarbon dating has established that the shroud is medieval, and not from the time of Jesus._
_Some proponents for the authenticity of the shroud have attempted to discount the radiocarbon dating result by claiming that the sample may represent a medieval "invisible" repair fragment rather than the image-bearing cloth. However, all of the hypotheses used to challenge the radiocarbon dating have been scientifically refuted, including the medieval repair hypothesis, the bio-contamination hypothesis and the carbon monoxide hypothesis._
_In 1998, shroud researcher Joe Nickell wrote that no examples of herringbone weave are known from the time of Jesus. The few samples of burial cloths that are known from the era are made using plain weave. In 2000, fragments of a burial shroud from the 1st century were discovered in a tomb near Jerusalem, believed to have belonged to a Jewish high priest or member of the aristocracy. Based on this discovery, the researchers concluded that the Turin Shroud did not originate from Jesus-era Jerusalem._
(from Wikipedia)
_In 2015, Italian researchers Barcaccia et al. published a new study in Scientific Reports. They examined the human and non-human DNA found when the shroud and its backing cloth were vacuumed in 1977 and 1988. They found traces of 19 different plant taxa, including plants native to Mediterranean countries, Central Europe, North Africa, the Middle East, Eastern Asia (China) and the Americas. Of the human mtDNA, sequences were found belonging to haplogroups that are typical of various ethnicities and geographic regions, including Europe, North and East Africa, the Middle East and India. A few non-plant and non-human sequences were also detected, including various birds and one ascribable to a marine worm common in the Northern Pacific Ocean, next to Canada. After sequencing some DNA of pollen and dust found on the shroud, they confirmed that many people from many different places came in contact with the shroud. According to the scientists, "such diversity does not exclude a Medieval origin in Europe but it would be also compatible with the historic path followed by the Turin Shroud during its presumed journey from the Near East. Furthermore, the results raise the possibility of an Indian manufacture of the linen cloth."_
(from Wikipedia)
@@zaquanbhfssa No, he didn't do the carbon dating, and I did not suggest that he did. But I have already stated that the sample used for carbon dating was contaminated by newer material.
Please dont let Frank join again, we have enough of him
Frodo - frodoism....?!?
To be ignorant is a choice .......!?!
😬😬😬
The Quran confirms that they have the Ark of the Covenant in their possession Frank. So where is it? Why don't you ask them? Who will you ask?
I am not sure what this has to do with anything I said, but where does the Quran say this about the ark? And by the way, the Quran contains no historical facts other than what it has copied directly from the Bible.
The person in the shroud looks more like a 60 year old man rather than a 30 year old demi-god.
If you look at the hands on the shroud, there are NO nail marks, either through the hands or wrists. ALSO, there is no gaping wound from the roman centurion on his side 🤔
We Christians believe the eyewitness accounts in the Gospels of the crucifixtion,death and resurrection of Jesus Christ!!
@desmondmansingh5175 I've never come across an eye witness statement of the crucifixion. Could you let me know the passage? It would be nice to read it, Thanks.
The ex muslim is emotional and willfully ignorant
Tenant vs Tenet
Tenant: someone who rents land or property from the owner, usually for the purpose of accomodation or business. Example: The tenant is late in paying his monthly rent.
Tenet: a belief or principle, especially one of the main principles of a religion or philosophy. Example: The absolute oneness of God is the core tenet of Islam.
Br. Abbas talks too much. Kindly let other to talk from a different perspective.
Frodo, have you ever considered that your basic understanding of English, both in oral and reading comprehension, might be lacking? You really need to go back to school, bro-you’re not understanding what you read or what people are trying to tell you.
Ijaz the verses you quote in OT,you quote completely out of context and misinterpret verses by means of deceit and lies!!
Your only weak argument is preservation or corruption of torah and injeel,this is your only way out with no proof at all,you mention this because Jews not accepting muhammed as a prophet!!
Keep barking in comments section. Have a gut to join the panel if you are on the truth
Jeremiah called the Torah a LIE. Here's your proof that the Torah is corrupted.
Jer 8:8 “How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us’? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes has made it into a LIE.
@@zaquanbhfssa He won't dare. He's scared that he'll get dissected and dismantled like all the Christians who joined before.
Everything abbas waffle about formular etc.only came in 7th century when the deceitful allah send jibreel to give muhammed the revelation,didn't even spoke directly to false prophet muhammed rather used a mediator unlike in Bible,God spoke directly to prophets!!
Then why is your entire Bible a inspiration from holy spirit rather then the direct words of the Father and even worse contradict each other
Jeremiah called the Torah a LIE. Here's your proof that the Torah is corrupted.
Jer 8:8 “How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us’? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes has made it into a LIE.
You guys are either running out of content or think that there’s any point in talking to Frank. Please refrain from having him as your regular guest- it’s almost like he’s part of the show.
Radiocarbon dating: Three laboratories radiocarbon dated the shroud in 1988 and concluded that it dates back to between 1260.