Rubber Tracks on Tanks - Are they worth it?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ค. 2024
- Should rubber band tracks replace metal tracks on tanks and armored fighting vehicles? I have been skeptical in the past but now I am starting to come round to the idea...
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Remember, if you need protection wear rubber
Can you get glow in the dark ones ??..
Ian Farr-Wharton
You can
coward xD
How the hell isthat gona stop a bulet?
Oh I get it
Really appreciated the footage of a rubber track field repair. It's really good to know that they can sometimes be patched. Segmented rubber seems like a likely alternative to band, but regardless, it seems not as bad as one would expect.
I used to be a commander on one of the Danish army M113 G4´s with rubber track and my experience is that it is a love hate relationsship (especially on slippery slopes)
Did they have any track attachments to help with those slopes? Like little screw on spikes like the ones on track/ cross country spikes? Ofc it wouldn’t be as good as metal tracks but might help solve the issue in a shorter period of time.
Rubber band tracks have advantages and disadvantages.
Advantages:
-On support misisons, you don't trash their infrastructure (roads) as bad as you do with steel tracks (even with rubber pads).
-As mentioned, quieter and less vibration inside the vehicle. However that can also be solved with a decoupled running gear (requires a new vehicle though).
-Lighter, however again, modern steel tracks also have significantly better weight effincency. DST's DLT 464D steel track is 40% lighter than a Leopard 1 steel track, while having the same durability.
Disadvantages:
-Rubber band tracks aren't as robust, thus they can't handle as high vehicle weights as steel tracks do. The rubber tracks used on the CV90 are only qualified for a relatively low maximum weight of 35 metric tons. The tracks used ASCOD 2 for only 38 tons or less. The ASCOD 2 version used by the british (AJAX Scout-SV) is heavier, thus requires steel tracks. So no, you won't see AJAX, Puma, T-15, Namer or even MBTs with rubber tracks.
-Durability is lower. On steel tracks you simply change the rubber pads, if you use them without it (only steel, so called 'combat track'), it is MUCH more durable than rubber anyways.
I think the biggest problem is the landmine
Another some disavantages: rubber dry and became brittle, and some chemicals (acetone) can dissolve or at least damage the rubber
That question is relatively simple
But you do have greater traction on stuff like tarmac and concrete surfaces compared to steel tracks
Steel tracks with rubber pads have pretty much the same traction as tracks made entirely of rubber. However the steel tracks can also be fitted with spike pads that enhance traction in snow drastically (you can see those spike pads at the turret backside of many nothern Leopard 2 versions, as example the danish or swedish version. They look like the rubber pads, but are made from steel and with an 'X' shaped spike on it). In case of a all-out war, they run the tanks without rubber pads at all, on steel. The performance on road is slightly reduced while in terain it enables even more traction.
They are super useful for when you dont want to make the main street look like a crazy man used a jackhammer as a pogo stick. In combat probably not the best idea.
Correction - maybe not the best in heavy combat or if you dont have a good stockpile of spares. Otherwise they seem rather awesome.
Love seeing al the turretless cv90's
They actually worked great for us, much less problems from the vehicles running "rubbers" and everyone much preferred them while I was in Syria.
VAC2 Aww that is cool where you operating tanks over there.
No but everyone knew what one you got in if you had a choice.
VAC2 Oh that is neat
had the rubber track on my TLAV in Afghanistan. worked well for me but I never got detracked. Not really repairable by the crew in the field. they were wider than the standard m113 tracks which made them better in the mud. track maintenance at the user level is almost nothing They are reasonably durable too I ran over a PMN landmine and it didn't do too much at all to the track. an anti-tank mine would knock them off probably. I'd say overall they are good as long as you have the logistics to deal with the difficult repairs. I'll have to keep an eye on the segmented rubber tracks. That should mitigate one of the largest downsides.
I see more pros here than cons.
I was taught years ago that rubber pads in tank tracks were used in peace time to stop roads being chewed up and that in war they would simply not be replaced.
As ex CVRT, Chieftain & Chally crewman I must say if we had the segmented rubber tracks back then it would have made track bashing reasonably enjoyable :)
Geoff Smith thanks for your service buddy!
Geoff Smith Rubber existed around ww2 but THE japanese cut off our supply so we made synthetic rubber.
Loved track bashing on Chieftain;-) Especially in Soltau
Mary Dominguez These are '70s era vehicles, not WW2. Also the power to drive a class 60 vehicle would shred rubber track
LOL
The problem at 8:12 is not the cobblestone, its the tank. Ive seen a 42 ton truck drive across cobblestone.
Tanks are fucking nightmares to road construction.
It comes down to perspective:
Tanker: Who the fuck puts cobbles down outside a fuckin barracks?!
Road maintenance: FUCKING TANKERS!
See? The problem changes based on perspective :D
I agree with the first one but most of the cobblestone paths were made before the creation of the tank, let alone car or truck.
yes and it was more like parade as he said? they were driving through old town to show their shit off
Shouldn't track pads help prevent road destruction with tracked vehicles?
Problem is ground pressure is focused down onto a very narrow area.
My Father was involved in the Testing of Armored vehicles pre WWII. The track system most of the crews wanted was the Christy system. He was also part of the transition from all metal to rubberized tracks, Dad preferred the rubberized tracks. I wish he were alive so I could ask him about the tracks on the halftrack.I think they a form of rubber track with spring steel molded into the rubber. Rubber tracks overall should be an improvement, depending on the ability of the track to absorb battle damage and then be repaired in the field.
The track used on the U.S. halftracks was a single piece "Rubber-Band" with steel cables running the length(circumfrence), similar to how a steel belt is laid in a tire. Later versions made by the Israelis used stainless steel cable, as once the rubber is cracked, it's very easy for water to wick up in the cables and corrode/weaken them.
www.militaryfactory.com/imageviewer/ar/pic-detail.asp?armor_id=71&sCurrentPic=pic11
Yes, those are crossplates, there are steel cables running the circumference that provide the trnsion to the "band". Hunnicutt's book on the development of U.S. half and semi-tracks has far more on the subject than I can put here.
John Rodrigues: They were molded with spring steel, this made the M3 halftrack faster than German and French halftracks of similar weight, very foreward thinking for 1940.
jgranger3532 pity the army resisted the development of a heavy tank. Could have saved thousands of lives. Aviation gas and and shrapnel are a bad combination. The lead Sherman took an 8.8cm round through the front and into the engine near Brest, in my Dad's company. Five men were turned hamburger with that hit.
In the 1980's I was involved with the Leopard 1 improved main battle tanks. For us, rubber tracks meant peace-time tracks to save the roads. Almost all movement over public roads was still done with FTF low boy carriers. When activated, all our tanks would change over to steel tracks.
We never had a track failure that I remember and the ride was smooth without vibrations. Not so for our YPR personnel carriers which shook the fillings from our teeth.
p.s., in Germany we won the tank trophy with our old tanks from Leopard 2 and the Abrams tanks with their cheap smooth bore cannons :-)
rubber tracks on a leopard? or do you mean steel tracks with rubber pads on them!!!???
Excellent summary. You fairly much hit the nail on the head with respect to my own thinking. In my experience, the M113 is a noisy uncomfortable vehicle at the best of times and I can really see the comfort benefit in putting rubber tracks on a lighter vehicle, such as this. I found your comments on vibration interesting, because I can't say that I ever experienced this problem in the Leopard 1. While I certainly felt the vibration, I never found it uncomfortable, or felt that I wanted it to stop. Mind you, I hated those occasions when I had to crew the M113 for this very reason and because the suspension was terrible.
But the issue of sharp stone terrain is significant. When on exercise in Australia's Northern Territory (which seems to be mostly made up of sharp rocks) with the Leopards, we had to replace our brand new rubber track pads within two weeks of arriving and then again on return after completion of the one month exercise. I'd hate to think of what this kind of terrain would have done to rubber tracks. I am curious to know whether the vehicles in Afghanistan encountered this type of terrain and if so, how they fared.
Thing is that you don't get to chose the ground on which you are deployed, so my thoughts are better safe than sorry. Stick with known technology with all AFVs until the rubber track can demonstrate that it can reliably handle whatever conditions are thrown at it. Maybe Norway can test some of their vehicles in the NT! :-)
Also, I don't think that it would have made much difference if that bridgelayer had been equipped with rubber tracks. You undoubtedly have a better understanding of the physics than I, but the issue there seems to be that you had a heavy tracked vehicle pivoting on an rough surface, which had poor adhesion to the underlying road foundation. I never did the Special Equipment Course, and can't remember how much the bridge layer weighs but IIRC it is significantly greater than the Leopard's 42 tons and when you are a cobblestone road, this has gotta hurt, irrespective of what the tracks are made of.
Well, Segmented rubber tracks are way to go. the section won't expand as much as a full track belt because it will be supported by its linkages if they are made up some durable metals. The Tracks can be made with some fiber steel meshing mixed in with the rubber that can help make the track sturdy enough to deal with thermal dynamics. So you won't need a hydraulic system to keep the track tight. Just an old-fashioned track tension wheel that the US M47's had in the back to make sure the track stayed when clearing obstacles low and high speed, but Later remove because of better track and suspension designs. All and all I'm sold on the rubber tracks.
I agree. It's not like this a new technology still in it's infancy, they've been using segmented, fortified rubber conveyor-belts in the mining-industry forever, and those things are designed to take a beating 24 hours a day. And a lot of those conveyors nowadays have fully automated systems that can repair/replace damaged segments and regulate the tension, implement that on a tank and you're one step closer to not needing a tank-crew at all.
"implement that on a tank and you're one step closer to not needing a tank-crew at all."
.... HERESEY! BURN THE HERETIC!
lol Hey! if we can get a car to drive on its own, a tank is no different. Well maybe by a few tons more, but it is still possible. :)
Omega Zer0 I think I might be more comfortable with self-driving cars now that I think about it though... seeing as my Toyota probably won't/can't murder us all once it becomes self-aware :)
looks like CASIO G-SHOCK watch band.
Very good video with talk from actual experiance to back it up, love it.
Matsimus....when you leave the military....please get a job in the Defense Industry as a Military Advisor...
St. Vick lol nah. Mongs are not accepted
I been wanting to know this but what does Mong mean. Like I know it means an idiot but why is it called Mong
Hey..Matt, at moment 1:34, was that U, in person?? If that was, ma'an U look so much like H.R.H. Prince Harry.
St. Vick Or a Pro Gamer
correction, he looks like prince Hairy. just look at it haha
One benefit to rubber tracks is also a dramatic speed increase.
It'll be interesting to keep on eye on this stuff in the coming years as new composites are developed.
What I really like about your videos is that you are open for perspectives that are not your own and go about it in a relatively objective manner.
Very professional and enlighting piece of work, it's always good to receive the imput from those with hands on experience. Thnaks for the good work mate.
You know that steel has way more heat expansion than rubber? In other words, different temperatures should have less effect on rubber tracks staying on than with steel tracks.
I think the way forward will be segmented rubber tracks so that you can repair them in field conditions. Some steel and kevlar to strenghten the structure just like in tyres and it should be durable enough even for MBT.
Rubber sectional tracking is mainly limited by the weight it can carry, and how it behaves on very rocky terrain. (cutting/punching/taking a permanent set). It will be a while before you see sectional rubber/composite tracks replacing steel tracks on armor heavier than ~25 tons.
Kevlar is neat stuff, but using it in an application like a section of track is not good. It is hydrophilic, meaning you could suffer nasty delaminations when the outer rubber is cut to where the cord/plies are exposed, in cold/freezing weather.
In case of rubber you probably wouldnt be worrying about heat expansion (rubber contracts when heated) but how its elasticity is affected.
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/app.1984.070291118/abstract
You adjust the track tension as needed. Use to be on rubber track m113 in the CAF
Isn't there any steel cables to hold it together, like in garden size excavators?
The first part reminds me of some of the things professors at the university I attended were working on for the Army. Ever since the US military went to all volunteer they have been making more and more investments in human factors studies. The short term benefits are retention since soldiers are not being discharged for medical reasons relating to back and joint injuries which means less need to increase incentives to raise numbers. Long term the benefits are less severe back and joint injuries later in life. So even if rubber tracks cost more the cost to replace an infantryman can be substantial between the need for incentives, such as signing bonuses, GI Bill costs, training costs all adds up. Also losing a soldier with specialty training to being discharged for preventable injuries can have an impact on combat readiness and effectiveness of a group that is avoidable.
Here's a thought.
Implement the basic design of airless-tire on the outer rim of road wheels and use the same design principle to upgrade solid rubber pads into more elastic, comfortable rubber pads.
It should shred weight off tanks and also save money to purchase entire new tracks.
I've been waiting for this video to come out. I didn't know much about rubber tracks ,besides rubber track pads. I was surprised to see how good they are. My main problem with them is the track repair, having them in chunks seems easier to repair than getting a whole new tread. Rubber has a low melting point than most metal. so if someone stuck a bottle of highly flammable liquid on the track and light it on fire. Would melt the tracks giving you a bad time. I'm guessing it would to take to long to burn through or its not a realistic example of it happening in combat. Imagine how bad it would smell if a tank was to catch on fire and burned for awhile. but hey now you got a good signal smoke.
Expansion should not be an issue, perhaps they will make different types to deal with hot, mediate and cold weather though, so that with some segmentation seems to be a good step to the future. Reducing noise outside of a tactical advantage is very important to the crew inside as constant noise and vibrations are tiresome, having less of that seems to me would allow the crew to remain at their best for longer.
Anyhow just my thoughts on this I aint no expert on any of this.
A tank designed for rubber tracks could have an automatic tensioner that makes it a non-issue. Retrofitting to a tank designed for metal tracks, with an external manual tensioner, might be a huge issue. Such is the nature of retrofits though.
Mostly you hear engine noise first. At least for MBT:s
DUDE, your videos have the most BAD ASS INTRO/OTTRO, I've ever seen on YOU TUBE!
Keep up the good work!
TH-cam is ONE word
You must not watch much TH-cam then
Ah yes ottro
Bad as or badass
You also expanded my point of view, couldn't expect that I'll take the rubber seriously. Good vid
Hey Matsimus. I'm designing my light tank at the moment and your video is very useful for me and for the discussion with other experts on this question. :)
I always enjoy your videos. Well done sir. 💪🖒
Ok, I'm no tank expert but I can put 2 and 2 together and figure out that neutral steering an already heavy Leopard with an entire bridge on its back on a cobbled road is a stupid idea
They did that on purpose to prove a point. I drove my M60A3 and M1A1 on many cobblestone roads and motorpools without any damage. (2 tours [4.25years total] in W. Germany) Look closely, you will see that there was a significant "pothole" or whatever you wish to call it where the cobbles were already coming loose. They CHOSE THAT SPOT to neutral steer. This is not coincidental. Cobbles rely on there interlocking properties to give them strength.
So they pretty much destroyed a large chunk of this walkway/road just because they could?
Yes, The road was already slated for repair. It was made into a "public service announcement of sorts. also, cobbles are reused. they will simply come in, pull out all the disturbed stones, lay, smooth and compact the sand and gravel underpayment then re-set (place, wedge install or whatever have you) the original cobbles. It is actually a very durable (if not smooth or high traction) road surface. I have destroyed German roads before, nearly every time by accident of mishap (in my M60A3) only once did I wreck a chunk on purpose, an old lady would throw rotten food at me when I walked past her house to buy Brochen and meat from the metzgeri (My german is a bit rusty) so I got "Babe the Blue rubbing up against the curb (curbs in Germany are made from roughly 1 meter long pieces of granite laid into the ground) then steered as hard as I could. Threw three section up into the yard. Felt like a jerk afterward, until I pulled that uniform out to wash it, the smell caused me to decide to throw it away instead. It was close to unserviceable anyway.
Nice informative video...the main issue as you rightly pointed out is the tensioning method..its critical to the whole operation of the rubber track.
I was in Desert Storm and have been around both M1s and Russian tanks and APCs. The Russian models were far noisier with combustion engines and metal tracks. An M1 coming from downwind can actually sneak up on stuff. At one point, about halfway to Kuwait City, we went by a place where there were Russian tank tracks, and then some M1 tracks merged, and around a hill we found the Russian tank with its turret blown off and the M1 tracks leading away.
Don't play around with rubber tracks, get to work on hover tanks!!!
MrKalashnik0va the answer is recoilless rifles
The amount of energy required to hover would ludicrous without some sort of antigravity matter which would be a game changer in pretty everything.
this covers some hover tank problems if i remember right.
th-cam.com/video/KfgifHh5R4Y/w-d-xo.html
Sromotny Kobziarz The amount of energy required to hover a vehicle, especially one as heavy as a tank is ludicrous. They would burn so much fuel you could not operate them.
Recoil of the weapons would be a concern, these tanks would produce massive amounts of noise. Control would be somewhat questionable.
Bob Lob Law That’s when you just drift over the enemy sideways if you can’t take them out with your main gun. It’ll be like ten pin bowling.
I guess if you don't want to go around ripping up local city streets.
Good video Matsimus. The first use of "rubber band" tracks that I can remember was the US M-3 half-track in WWII.
Great video! Segmented rubber tracks sounds like a good idea, assuming that terrain/weather conditions will not cause major problems.
American half tracks had band tracks in WWII. FYI.
U mean M3 Halftrack? its still has steel on it
The American half-tracks of World War Two had wire band tracks covered with rubber, so that all you see from the outside is rubber. And that applies to ALL American Half-tracks, not just the M3.
The latest rubber band tracks all have metal in them too.
Great video
I was the driver of Norways new CV90 with the rubber band tracks 1,5 year ago. There were a lot of upsides, but we had a lot of problems too. Hard to compare as I haven't driven one with steel tracks, but I could share further pros and cons, other than those in the video.
nice video of the bronco 2 at the end. i operated the previous model during my active days. yes changing the rubber track during maintenance was a daylight nightmare and throwing a track out in the field was worse.
During war time or active service, id still prefer the steel tracks.mainly because I don't think the rubber bands would hold up against a high velocity projectile like steel would...That bit of "extra armour" .
matt gratton flashback to Warthunder tracks blocking a 120mm AP round :/
Given the penetration value of modern weapons, I really don't think "extra armour" is a real life thing...
bandholm
In fact, some WWII German testing showed that, supposedly, tracks as addon armor actually made penetration easier to a degree because they were soft, and allowed the shells to bite in more, unlike the hard-faced armor plates.
Warriorcat49 that would actually make more sense too.
Never mind being hit directly and squarely by a 120mm APFSDS, they usually show up to the party with friends and obviously that's going to be the end of your war. The real question is which type of track will stand up the best to the tank running over a IED or anti tank mine.
Aaay just saying I still have no idea wha your intro music is but I love your content and shit :3
Felix Ngullie dany Olsen if I lose myself tonight ;-)
Matsimus wow thank you sooooo much mat :3 I really appreciate it
soundcloud.com/dannyolsonmusic/danny-olson-if-i-lose-myself
Talking to farmers around me, they love tracks. At least most do. I asked one about the life of a track compared to a tire and the response surprised me. This farmer has a few tracked vehicles and the only one that has lost a track so far was his Case Quadtrack. And that one was damaged in a field when plowing. The rest are all on the factory tracks. All are rubber tracks. Oldest one was five years old. Said he usually gets about three to four from most tires. Granted this is not a combat vehicle, but still interesting.
This is amazing! I enjoy these inovations in AFVs.
Are there any track technologies out there that have steel tracks "coated" with rubberband tracks?
ah yes thank you youtube recommendations. for when i go to by my new tank
Thank you for your service sir
One advantage of rubber tracks is that they would be much quieter than metal tracks. That would have a number of advantages, like when you're moving into a position for an ambush. Also, a hybrid gas/electric power train would be useful because electric engines are so much quieter than internal combustion engines. Light anti-tank vehicles could move into a position for an ambush with much less chance of being detected.
If I had to design a reconessience vehicle, I'd make it hybrid and have rubber tracks. The thing would be like a ghost.
Do a video on the TR85M1
Attempt no.3. I will not stop unless I get an answer or I see the video.
I love your channel and I would like to see some love towards my country's military, and maybe get some more information on my favourite tank if you find anything interesting about it, which I havent heard of already. Keep up the good work.
ParaBellum only the gun its weak at that tank
Vémundr romanians modified , and modified the t55 , and now they have this , its modernized but only , only the gun is weak
Vémundr we had 4-5 versions by now
You: T90 its just a t55 with a different look
ParaBellum these tanks still can destroy a abrams or t90 , so its not so bad , who says communism saved countryes and made them better , theyre fucking idiots
DAMMIT MAT, LET ME SLEEP FOR ONCE!!
If rubber track significantly reduce vibrations then that should reduce wear and tear on the vehicle.
Increasing reliability and vehicle lifespan would be a great improvement.
It's not just crew who benefit from the smoother ride of rubber. It's all the electronics that need to be beefed up and protected from vibes.
That means you can use more sensitive equipment like, night vision, sights, IR etc, or extend service life of current equipment with less failure and lower maintenance demands. I think those cost and time savings will swing it in favour of rubber (or is it Kevlar?).
4:22 oouuh you really butchered the name Hägglunds there xD.
Yeah, hes shit with languages and names.
Many native english speakers are for some reason.
long live the fiberglass wonder!
#Bandvagnlivesmatter ;)
@@martialme84 its because native english speakers primary language is ENGLISH. Ive heard people with english as their second language pronounce english words totally wrong
Hey bro it’s me again how do I get ahold of you for a chat ?
Respect from cowtown
Brandon Barkman go to my discord channel man
Matsimus hey man just got discord but in your description it does not say what’s your four digits are four discord what are they? My name on that app is French toast mafia LOl 😂 maybe you could send me an invite? #1537
Cheers look forward to the next vid
there's a link, that links directly to his discord chat group, just talk to him through that.
Max Dahlin Murphy thanks for the help
The best feeling is being too tired to stand, so you sleep on the floor with your large backpack and at that point the vibrations from high speed metallic tracks (with pads) sends you into slumberland like a massage recliner.
I can understand the vibration thing. I use tractors alot, and they have NO SUSPENSION, and you sit on the rear axle. The ride is bumpy as could be, and it WEARS YOU OUT! You wouldnt think riding a tractor could be tiring, but it really is!
Of course, a tractor isnt a tank, but I understand that experience. Very interesting!
I don’t care what kind of tracks it has, I just want a tank.
You can get a used one for less than 100K on the inter-webs :p
Cameron Foord where are you gonna put it though?
Quadeer Cherma I bet your neigbour would let you use his driveway if you ask nicely ;)
SonsOfLorgar lol
Ajaxarmoured
Hirmh... What about rubber encased metallic track? Perhaps something light like aluminium? Best of both worlds?
The rubber would be harder than the aluminum.
That was impressive, In civilian use we have had for some several years now several, tracked diesel powered dirt excavators ALL have continuous one piece rubber Band tracks and never once did we have a problem with them. However, we never ran over any land mines or burning battlefield debris or any thing else concerning a modern battle field combat condition. But if they are reliable and quick to repair in the field under all the nasty field conditions that tend to pop up, GREAT. I can see there would be some really serious great advantages to All rubber track vehicles. You could actually quietly sneak up on someone.
Great Video I had No idea the rubber track had started to be utilized in front row combat vehicles
Great review and comments!
Your extra and erroneous use of "inherently" is grating...
Besides that, nice video.
douglasg14b the fact you have a mine craft avatar is also grating :-) but thanks for the feedback
Steel tracks even with rubber pads are a nightmare in the streets.
In my country, Portugal, we had this huge military parade in one of the most famous and most traffic avenue in Lisbon.
After the huge expensive fixing the avenue they ended the military parade.
I was a driver of an APC (M-113) and also we had older M-48 tanks and M-60, also with steel tracks. The law inside of the military was, when driving on public roads, no hard turns.
Also, for my experience in the M-113, the small rubber pads in the steel tracks where a nightmare in wet roads at high speeds. If you were not careful turning or braking too much one
one on side, the M-113 had the tendency to slide. Was fun doing it but not many people could control it.
Having a tanks with full rubber tracks can be good in flat terrain or in roads, more grip. But I do not seen it last long enough in harsh terrain with rocks and so on. Steel is steel. Rubber no matter how much resistant it is, probably would not last much in 2 or 3 months of abuse in operations in hard terrain.
You will always remember the sound of the metals tracks because of your tinnitus ringing away.
Thanks very much for this.
Rubber tracks go back to WWII M2 half tracks. I like the segmented rubber track idea. When talking about metal track noise and vibrations taking a toll on the passengers. It also takes a toll on the very vehicle and equipment. All that deep brutal vibration with real mass "metal track links" destroys electronics, knocks sights out of alignment. Transmissions and engines shaken to an early grave that then needs more maintenance. Full belt tracks still use steel cables and Kevlar belts, some real tough quiet stuff. Not getting heard and arriving still intact has some real bonuses.
This channel fucken rocks GREAT JOB MATSIMUS!!! You just gained a new subscriber!!!
The segmented rubber track sounds very promising. BTW, wouldn't it be possible to cut used tires and screw the pieces to the outside of a steel track to get the best of both worlds?
The pivot turn was hilarios!
What I'm more amazed at, is that M-113s are still in use worldwide!!!!
I used to drive those babies and loved them, except they couldn't go as fast as M-60 tanks!
very informational, thank you :)
I don't know about military, but I've seen some logging companies whom had track equipment the type of track usually depended on where they was, rubber for harder, more level and cement areas, and metal for muddy, forestry, swampy areas. They would change out the track to fit the need.
very informative and a great video!
The issue with single piece tracks is maintenance. An anti-personnel mine will not only disable a vehicle with a band track (unlike the caterpillars on, say, an M1A2 which will glide over small munitions like a child over bubble wrap), but will disable the vehicle until another support vehicle shows up with an ENTIRE SPARE TRACK to replace the destroyed one which maintenance and logistics wise, is a massive issue.
Crates being shipped across every battle zone with the sole purpose of replacing an entire track because the old one has a hole in it sounds like a nightmare. As time consuming as it is to replace a metal link, I'd still prefer it over removing an entire belt.
We (Can) used ARTHUR (Counter Bty Rdr) on a BV chassis in Afg in 04. No issues on rough terrain however we flatbeded them on long road moves because of vibration / wear at speed with the addition weight of the rdr. Also worked on ADATS which had both steel and rubber track during it's lifecycle. The electronics really benefit from the rubber, moreso than the Troops.. I'd never thought of the long term health effects from many years in track veh; time to contact Veterans Affairs :) . Another advantage is the rubber trk doesn't p/u 10% of the crap a steel track does. We caught razor/ concertina wire on a steel track in Germany, stopped us in very short order and removing it was hell.. Yes, go all rubber.
Absolutely love your channel
I hated busting track. I can still feel it over 20 years later. The vibrations on the M60 A3 were brutal and the noise has left my ears ringing ever since. The Abrams was not as bad as the suspension was way more advanced but track maintenance sucked worse due to the track skirts. The M60 was relatively easy to fix until you broke a torsion bar, then life sucked worse than if it was just the track. Don't get me started on the final drive sprocket. That beast was always a murder part to change. Fun times. I still would not have changed it for the world.
There is an issue with rubber (either pads or tracks) on roads: Since the rubber provides a lot of grip on asphalt/tarmac, it is actually damaging when the vehicle turns - it rips up the surface actually much worse than plain steel track links, which slide off the surface (sideways) much more easily. In Germany the law that governs the use of tracked vehicles on the road (being road legal) actually makes torsion force applied to the road the main consideration. You had the clip of the bridge layer at the demonstration at the WTS in Koblenz (which since moved to Trier) - here it was really the grip of the rubber pads that pulled out the cobbles.
Well you won't hear that awsome clinging sound generated from steel tracks when a tank is driving slow if you use rubber
I stand by the idea that a segmented rubber track with offroad omniwheel pairs front & back would be the best heavy vehicle layout for both traversal & suspension.
If your cannon gets broken, just grab the tracks and slingshot a shell
Rubber tracks were around a lot earlier than 2003! The American halftrack of WWII used rubber tracks. Reinforced with steel cable if I'm not mistaken. I was lucky to have ridden in one during a WWII reenactment.
good vid matt - keep up the good work - and don't forget to include some Yoga positions :D
I'm a professional modeler and yea I've driven on some of school tractors in my day. I also was fortunate to see how the M1 Bradley was built because my cousin worked at FMC at the time as a fabricator. Why can't they take the best of both worlds and work with it. A conventional, combination rubber metal set up. To myself this is a no brainer. I also remember as a kid a bolt rubber set up.
I like the segmented rubber tracks. Retains the field maintenance capacity for the crew. The only real draw back is the frequency of thrown tracks. I would believe that driving rubber tracks takes a different technique than traditional tracks, like wider turns or slower turns. The nuances would be challenging to traditional drivers who might forget that they are driving rubber tracks. Tanks are great forwards and backwards, but turns play havoc on many things. I remember my M270 tank commander discouraging turns because of the drive train.
I could imagine that one category of tracked vehicles won't use rubber tracks - demining vehicles that routinely drive over antipersonnel mines that could easily destory rubber tracks.
The British bought about 100 Warthogs from Singapore (where they are called Broncos) to replace the BV206s because ppl were getting killed in the BVs due to insufficient armour. No one was killed riding in Warthogs, apparently. The Warthogs also had rubber tracks. We make quite a number of AFVs and also a high mobility vehicle where the driver sits in the middle. We also operate over 100 Leopard 2 modified locally. Perhaps you may consider doing a video on Singapore AFVs. We also make howitzers, SPG, LST and other weapon systems.
It seems like in modern urban warfare tanks often spend a lot of time on roadways going between locations or out on payroll.
Wouldn’t it be possible to create a modular system that could attach to the underside or each corner of a tank that would have tires on electric motor hubs that could be lowered for traversing smooth roadways and raised for terrain?
Could even power the electric hubs from the tanks engine and reduce fuel consumption on smooth roads.
Make the failsafe position be retracted so it they fail the tank can simply use its tracks.
Rubber bands on APCs, Steel tracks on MBTs, is exactly what I would have said before watching the video. What I have to wonder however is why we can't create composite tracks that are largely rubber, but heavily reinforced by steel (or maybe carbon fiber?) wire and bars. These could to my mind be segmented pieces, just like steel tracks, held by steel pins, but the tracks themselves could be mostly rubber with some elasticity. Sadly I am not an engineer and am likely missing something, else we would likely already be doing this.
Love the nod to the invincible TLAV of the CAF one of my fav vehicles to drive
Your b-roll was on point.
Rubber tracks can only be replaced, not repaired. They have an upper strength limit where we would have more steel or Dyneema re-enforcing than rubber and they can burn. So it's a question of risk analysis and design requirements. AFV - maybe, tank - no. Great vid dealing with things which make us think. Thanks Matt.
You earned a sub cool vid matsimus 👌
Rubber-band tracks are actually older than you think. Way back in WWII, they were used on half-tracks like the M3 and M4. It was cheaper to do so than using the full tracks like on the Sherman tanks.
Sorry, but I think us Americans were the first to put them on the battlefield in the M2/M3 Halftracks. Previously, I think the Frenchies had rubber tracks on some of the Citroen halftracks of the 1920-1930s.
One of the nice things with Rubber tracks on the BV205 and 206 is that you can actually register it as a road legal car her in Norway :) And some ppl do buy thouse vechiles from surepluss millitary auctions for almost nothing.. A few years ago you could get a BV205 70modell for like 10-15K NOK (around 2K US dollars) now they are getting popular with farmers and rescue centers.. And are going as high as 50-100K NOK (around 10K dollars). But if you are aware of the millitary auctions they are selling them at, you get an almost unsued 70s modell with less then 10miles for just 500 dollars...
That soucy track is awesome. Loved it on my tlav. Came to late though. My body is wrecked from the vibration. Bold and Swift
Great Topic you picked there ! Gives me much to think about too. Well i did some times because im Serving on the Leopard 2 and yes... on our german range roads its terrible with the steel tracks. But i cant really imagine a 62t mbt running on rubber. It might be a good and game changing technology but still a bit awkward. For afv´s n Example Puma or Marder it is a Very good choice.
Tension is the point i am a bit concerned of. But great upload again ;) gives me something to think about this evening. Cheers from Germany
Segments rubber tracks would probably be the best idea. And there should be metal connection piece that travels through each segment. That way the rubber can expand and shrink without effecting tension. Like a tension bar in each segment.
Hi - great vid (again) - if those rubber band tracks are anything like the old Airfix ones, you can join them with a hot screwdriver... Also, covering your tank with pieces of rubber track makes it show up less on sonar..
Very informative!
I always enjoy your videos and the information you provide, but for some reason I always wondered, after seeing a WW II halftrack, why they weren't used more on modern armor. Especially with all the different and exotic rubber and core materials in use or development.