I had it remembered as Morale->Move->Missile->Magic->Melee (basically the word magic rather then spell casting) I had forgot about 2h going last when I got back into B/X (OSE) This is a really good overview with clear examples - should be reference as a primer for anyone getting into or back into OSE or any B/X derived system.
I absolutely loathe 2h going last. I always ditch that rule in my own games. Or sometimes I houserule that Fighters, because of their training, can ignore it.
@@ChuckBarchukThank you! I like your houserule there with "slow" weapons. If using the optional weapon proficiency rule, use the Slow rule when using a two-handed weapon untrained.
I don't mention it in the video as I'm toying around with house rule options in my games, but currently I run it so that two-handed weapons can make first strike against an approaching enemy during movement phase. After that, once engaged in melee, they take the loss of initiative.
Alternating during each phase is an interesting option. For example, during the Move phase the initiative winning side moves, then the losing side. Next the winner performs Missile fire followed by the initiative loser, and so on. Gives more of a back & forth flow to it, making the action seem a bit closer to a fast-moving fight than the I Go-You Go for everything lopsidedness. You'd have to move the spell resolution to the last phase (switch with Melee phase) for allowing melee a chance to interrupt on the same turn. Of course, it gives a bit more advantage to missile weapons for both sides, as compared to melee, but I think that's appropriate considering missile weapons can't be used while someone is in melee range anyway. So that advantage could potentially be nullified after the first combat round.
An interesting video, for me, to be sure. I've not really bothered looking over the OSE rules. Given the existence of OSRIC and reproduction copies of AD&D 1e, I'm not likely to play any of the other D&D clones; but, I am still interested in having a better understanding of the way different games employ their mechanics, and seeing which aspects of play they support and/or emphasize. Cheers!
Reviewing OSE and BECMI procedures has given me new insights into how I run my AD&D games over the years. AD&D is rich with nuance, but it can be a mess at times. OSE's system is wonderfully clean.
Great video. I strongly agree with your houserule on surprise indoor encounter distance. Was it really that far indoors btb? Really, the distance of surprise for the party should be limited to the maximum range of the light source of 30 feet (by torch or lantern) if no other light sources or obstacles. Those players mentioning having infravision should remember that one cannot map by this talent, so no. Usually surprise was a very one-sided affair in the monsters' favour. And that 30 is only if the DM is being nice. Infravision extends out farther (if the honking light source wasn't already a dead giveaway of uninvited guests) so any waiting dungeon denizen range attacking outside the light essentially has a chance to both surprise and nullify any Dex bonuses the players might have as they are not anticipating (pretty much a flee state). Good luck hiding in shadows thief when your a big red blob against a cold dungeon wall. heh. It's insanely dangerous to go into a dungeon with such bad odds and should be the fear-inducing choice it was meant to be. Fearless (or crazy) adventurers need only apply. Otherwise, all that treasure risking one's life for would have been scooped up long ago. A tactical use of surroundings is the only way to survive and is one of the fun parts about the game: turning a mild dungeon romp into a tense moment at every turn in the corridor. Arguably, later editions with darkvision is the fundamental shift (mistake?) that changed crucial elements that define old-school play, with what I consider less than stellar results.
Now if the Thief succeeds on their Hide/Move Silently roll would you still roll a d6 surprise roll for the monster as it pertains to the other party members?
If surprise is possible for the others as well, then yes the standard roll applies. I'll do separate checks in cases like this - that is assuming the thief has separated themselves from the group in their attempt to hide. If they're all together, then it's just the one roll. Adjudicate as the situation demands.
@@Merlinstergandaldore Very cool. Thanks for the reply. In my own games I allow the Thief a hide in shadows roll even if the party is all together. Exact positions are more abstract in my games until combat has commenced. But most of the time I'm assuming the party is trying to be as quite as possible unless they're purposely not. The surprise roll is basically a stealth roll for the party but the Thief gets an extra chance so to speak. Anyways I very much enjoy your content and look forward to more. Cheers.
As for THAC0, I always thought it was easier just subtracting the target's AC from the attacker's THAC0. Gives you the target To Hit number. Easy! Edit: For the full deal, just add attack bonuses to the target's AC, then subtract it from THAC0. Boom - one target number.
If the AC is known to players, that's definitely a quick and easy way to resolve it. As DM, though, I keep the enemy AC a mystery - so Players tell me what AC they hit when they roll and I'll confirm the hit.
@@Merlinstergandaldore I didn't worry about the PCs knowing the AC as they'd get a good idea soon anyway. If they didn't already, that is. It ends up being the same situation as in 2nd edition (listed as a method there IIRC) and later editions.
Has anyone played around with resolving Movement first?. So the side that lost initiative moves first. Winners can decide to move to counter any of the movement. Then missile resolve, including against targets that moved?
I tend to resolve simultaneous results similar to that, step by step for both sides at once, rather than taking turns. But under normal circumstances I leave it as it to avoid confusion.
@@Merlinstergandaldore I run for a bunch of casuals. So I don’t get a lot of “well actually the rules say”. The biggest hiccup I have just about every fight is questions about movement. So I was wondering if anybody else had run into that problem and what they did to solve it.
The best use is that it keeps the numbers small and you can precalculate the bonuses so that you can go just by raw die rolls. In the long run it actually makes the math faster and easier than ascending, even though ascending seems more intuitive on the surface.
Good refresher, I'll try to watch this again as preparation for Clericon
Ooh, I like these rules breakdowns. Good refreshers, and on ramps for new viewers
It's a good refresher to make them, too. Especially since I need to mentally sort out house rules and keep the book rules straight in my presentation!
@Merlinstergandaldore been torn between using ose or castles and crusades for a campaign, I'm leaning back to OSE
Great video!
Thanks!
I had it remembered as Morale->Move->Missile->Magic->Melee (basically the word magic rather then spell casting) I had forgot about 2h going last when I got back into B/X (OSE)
This is a really good overview with clear examples - should be reference as a primer for anyone getting into or back into OSE or any B/X derived system.
I absolutely loathe 2h going last. I always ditch that rule in my own games. Or sometimes I houserule that Fighters, because of their training, can ignore it.
@@ChuckBarchukThank you! I like your houserule there with "slow" weapons. If using the optional weapon proficiency rule, use the Slow rule when using a two-handed weapon untrained.
@@ChuckBarchuk Yeah. If anything I deem polearms & spears to have priority going first over others.
@@NefariousKoel 1000%
I don't mention it in the video as I'm toying around with house rule options in my games, but currently I run it so that two-handed weapons can make first strike against an approaching enemy during movement phase. After that, once engaged in melee, they take the loss of initiative.
Awesome video, Mage!! Thank you for this and I'm looking forward to more! 👊🤓
Thanks Ray!
pretty neat! and Onionbuns made a cameo!
Alternating during each phase is an interesting option. For example, during the Move phase the initiative winning side moves, then the losing side. Next the winner performs Missile fire followed by the initiative loser, and so on. Gives more of a back & forth flow to it, making the action seem a bit closer to a fast-moving fight than the I Go-You Go for everything lopsidedness. You'd have to move the spell resolution to the last phase (switch with Melee phase) for allowing melee a chance to interrupt on the same turn.
Of course, it gives a bit more advantage to missile weapons for both sides, as compared to melee, but I think that's appropriate considering missile weapons can't be used while someone is in melee range anyway. So that advantage could potentially be nullified after the first combat round.
I do this for simultaneous results.
I must now request that further adventures of "Onionbuns" be part of all future videos!
Onionbuns has been a fan-favourite around here ever since his debut in the OSE Reviewcap #7.
Wow, thats showing how tired and exhausted I am, If I didnt remember that...
Apologies,
I should sleep more!
@@saraphys5555 A good excuse to revisit the Reviewcaps! 😁
An interesting video, for me, to be sure. I've not really bothered looking over the OSE rules. Given the existence of OSRIC and reproduction copies of AD&D 1e, I'm not likely to play any of the other D&D clones; but, I am still interested in having a better understanding of the way different games employ their mechanics, and seeing which aspects of play they support and/or emphasize. Cheers!
Reviewing OSE and BECMI procedures has given me new insights into how I run my AD&D games over the years. AD&D is rich with nuance, but it can be a mess at times. OSE's system is wonderfully clean.
On-ion-buns! On-ion-buns! 🥳
Two new OSE adventures with Onionbuns are on deck! OSE #31 and #32!
The procedures for non-combat phases are most interesting 🤔
I am thinking of a whole video just on social reactions, and how to get mileage out of Role Play with the reaction charts.
@Merlinstergandaldore would be awesome if you did a video on the encounter sequence!!
I've been using OSE for encounters... its clear I haven't used that many rules for it.
i love the simple of B/X or OSE
It's glorious!
Great video. I strongly agree with your houserule on surprise indoor encounter distance. Was it really that far indoors btb? Really, the distance of surprise for the party should be limited to the maximum range of the light source of 30 feet (by torch or lantern) if no other light sources or obstacles. Those players mentioning having infravision should remember that one cannot map by this talent, so no. Usually surprise was a very one-sided affair in the monsters' favour.
And that 30 is only if the DM is being nice. Infravision extends out farther (if the honking light source wasn't already a dead giveaway of uninvited guests) so any waiting dungeon denizen range attacking outside the light essentially has a chance to both surprise and nullify any Dex bonuses the players might have as they are not anticipating (pretty much a flee state). Good luck hiding in shadows thief when your a big red blob against a cold dungeon wall. heh.
It's insanely dangerous to go into a dungeon with such bad odds and should be the fear-inducing choice it was meant to be. Fearless (or crazy) adventurers need only apply. Otherwise, all that treasure risking one's life for would have been scooped up long ago. A tactical use of surroundings is the only way to survive and is one of the fun parts about the game: turning a mild dungeon romp into a tense moment at every turn in the corridor. Arguably, later editions with darkvision is the fundamental shift (mistake?) that changed crucial elements that define old-school play, with what I consider less than stellar results.
hey you are back yeah!!!
I never really went anywhere... just got distracted with my production schedule. I hope to play catchup over the next month.
@@Merlinstergandaldore I feel you I am behind myself
Now if the Thief succeeds on their Hide/Move Silently roll would you still roll a d6 surprise roll for the monster as it pertains to the other party members?
If surprise is possible for the others as well, then yes the standard roll applies. I'll do separate checks in cases like this - that is assuming the thief has separated themselves from the group in their attempt to hide. If they're all together, then it's just the one roll. Adjudicate as the situation demands.
@@Merlinstergandaldore Very cool. Thanks for the reply. In my own games I allow the Thief a hide in shadows roll even if the party is all together. Exact positions are more abstract in my games until combat has commenced. But most of the time I'm assuming the party is trying to be as quite as possible unless they're purposely not. The surprise roll is basically a stealth roll for the party but the Thief gets an extra chance so to speak. Anyways I very much enjoy your content and look forward to more. Cheers.
As for THAC0, I always thought it was easier just subtracting the target's AC from the attacker's THAC0. Gives you the target To Hit number. Easy!
Edit: For the full deal, just add attack bonuses to the target's AC, then subtract it from THAC0. Boom - one target number.
If the AC is known to players, that's definitely a quick and easy way to resolve it. As DM, though, I keep the enemy AC a mystery - so Players tell me what AC they hit when they roll and I'll confirm the hit.
@@NefariousKoel I find it easier and faster
@@Merlinstergandaldore I didn't worry about the PCs knowing the AC as they'd get a good idea soon anyway. If they didn't already, that is. It ends up being the same situation as in 2nd edition (listed as a method there IIRC) and later editions.
I didn’t care that they know the AC. It just seems to slow it all down if they ask every turn dose a 13 hit?
Spoiler...
Don't mess with ONIONBUNS!
"Onionbuns is out there; he doesn't feel pity...or remorse. And he absolutely will not stop-until you are dead."
Has anyone played around with resolving Movement first?. So the side that lost initiative moves first. Winners can decide to move to counter any of the movement. Then missile resolve, including against targets that moved?
I tend to resolve simultaneous results similar to that, step by step for both sides at once, rather than taking turns. But under normal circumstances I leave it as it to avoid confusion.
@@Merlinstergandaldore I run for a bunch of casuals. So I don’t get a lot of “well actually the rules say”. The biggest hiccup I have just about every fight is questions about movement. So I was wondering if anybody else had run into that problem and what they did to solve it.
Question: What are the benefits of using descending armor class over ascending?
The best use is that it keeps the numbers small and you can precalculate the bonuses so that you can go just by raw die rolls. In the long run it actually makes the math faster and easier than ascending, even though ascending seems more intuitive on the surface.
@Merlinstergandaldore plus, -1 ac sounds more bad ass then ac 22