Switch machine options for your model railroad (59)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ธ.ค. 2019
- There are a number of types of switch machines available to model railroaders for controlling the points on their turnouts. In this video I'll share with you a look at a few of the popular types and go over some of the pros and cons of each. So take a look at this video before you decide which method you will chose for your layout.
Note: I misinterpreted the Walthers instructions as the two switches do not turn the servo off at the end of travel. - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Hey Larry, I have visited your web site many times, but I just discovered your TH-cam channel. Your videos are great. Thanks!
Larry: I would not even attempt this DCC stuff if it weren't for your videos and book. I am an older guy and, therefore, struggling to learn all this here electronic stuff. I feel I am about to get a grasp on it, although sometimes there are still things I still do not feel sure about. Please do not get killed or knocked into a coma because I need your help (well, also because it would be a shame anyway for something like that to happen to you). There is nobody around here I have found who has the knowledge.......... I really wish I had some local expertise here (Ocala, Florida). I learn best from watching/hands on. So, it is all a struggle for me to get it from "book learning". Thanks so much for these videos. They are the next best thing.
Great video sir.
Hi Larry,
I'm using Digitrax DS64, Tortoise and Peco turnouts/points with dismounted springs. But I don't let the Tortoise motors stall. I let the DS64 cut the power after a couple seconds and it works fine. No problems at all with the turnouts/points. I't just that I don't like the feeling of having current running unnecessarily through my layout.
Larry, I've been using Tortoises for SO long, that I remember paying only $7.95 for my first ones!! 😜
I've read a few Model Railroader Articles on the newer Servo Based Switch Machines.... Gotta say I'm very impressed.
I mentioned in your Video on Turnout Frogs, that I'm primarily into Peco, and sometimes M.E. ...
The one possible issue with the Tortoise, and likely the Walthers ! Is that Spring Wire...
Safe for Points and the Turnout itself. BUT, about 80% of the time, I've had to remove the little Spring that keeps the Points closed. Sometimes the tension on those little Springs is just enough to repel the Wire coming up from the Switch Machine!! 😲
Needless to say that had caused a fair share of derailments - even more than CSX!!! 😜😂
Once you take that itty bitty Spring out, you better hope that you never have to put it back in!!
.... That IS a small price to pay for the performance and reliability of the Tortoises on my Layout. 3 of them since 1988!! 😲
Carmine ✈🚂🚙
Yes, removing the spring is one of the first things I do too.
Thanks for all the great info on the various types of controls. I've been considering the snap switches for the "far reaches" of my layout (when I get it built), but this is making me think twice about it. I might just use manual ones. I was also considering some of the manual surface throws, but you bring up a good point - I don't want to send in the 5-finger maintenance crew to repair scenery all the time.
I initially had planned to use Caboose ground throws on the Piedmont Southern, but then went with Tortoises when folks started complaining about all the damage to scenery. I also had planned to use coupler picks for uncoupling Kadees but that creates the same problem. It is also worse on double deck layouts since folks reaching under the upper deck can snag wires with the picks. Another problem with the picks is the downward pressure on the Kadees tends to pop them out of some coupler boxes and can even result in the head popping off. We have to repair several at each operating session on layouts that use them. Finally, I have seen folks reach in to uncouple one car and knock another and even locos over in the process. It might be OK on an open layout but not one where there are overhead limitations and/or long reaches.
I have never had any problems using Atlas snap switches on my layout. However I would like to try Tortoise the next time I need to install a new switch.
Well done.
Walthers came available just in time for my new layout. I have have installed 20 of them now. One, only one would not retain it's address. So I wired it for logic input instead. I still works fine. One other needed some rigging adjustments. I won't say anything bad about the turtles but I will never buy one.
Great videos Larry.
@Trevor Bryant I don't care for the facia buttons. Never installed the ones I bought. The 3 units on my DC section are controlled by the logic input and switch to the default position when power is applied requiring reset before operations. Unacceptable if train is sitting over turnout. But this not a defect, just the nature of my 20yr old switchery I tried to make work. I need to control them by DCC in the future. I installed a bi-color LED at each turnout driven directly by the machine vs panel mount LED. While not realistic looking, I can look out across the layout and determine switch position.
Latest anomaly is after I added NCE power booster I have to double click SELECT ACCY button twice to actuate machine.
I still have mostly positive opinion and enjoy messing around with these.
Hope you do as well.
BTW, the paper template is a joke. I transferred it to a piece of aluminum sheet stock. Solid, accurate and reusable. Has 3/8 hole in center and four .098 holes. I use a bolt to locate it under sub roadbed.
RC servos are the best way by far for me. DIRT CHEAP and super diverse range of horns/control rod hookups...and all they need is a simple 5v 2amp power supply ran to a bussbar giving all of the servos red wires their power, with a toggle switch hooked between the servo and bussbar on the negative wire to activate them quite easily. Cost me less than $35 total for 10 servos, 10 toggle switches, a 5v supply, basic bussbar, and wire for 10 turnouts with metal geared MG90s servos! AND the bets part THEY CAN WORK WITH DCC EASILY with some simple solutions! you also dont need that contraption box you showed wiht the circuit board and control rod
Yes, the new Digitrax DS78V accessory decoder is designed specifically for servos and they offer the DSXSV9 servos to go with it. They seem to be a growing trend in the hobby. I guess I need to place an order and try some out.
Those blue switches look like the snap a little like a solenoid, but maybe not quite so hard. They would be a little harder on the points than the slow motion type. I guess somewhere between solenoid and slow motion, but probably good if you want a more manual layout.
I have the SMAIL version of the tortoise and I am planning on installing red/green dwarf switch signals so you mentioned the frog wires but with my electrofrog, they were not to be hooked up to switch motor so with the switch signals there will be positive for red and positive for green and a ground so what terminals do all those connect to? so be a given, terminals 1 and 8 are controlled power to run the motor. Also are those terminals to run 3 volt dwarf signals a reduced power to run those are am I going to need to use the resistors that come with this package or signals?
the Peco mechanism can be used from below as stated, BUT also from the side with an addtional base plate availble from Peco,there are also dogleg lever mechanisms available in any M.R. mgasine which work all are proven since the 70's. There are also various hand throws for these points as well as omega loops. maybe awkward to solder wires too but still the best mechanism in my opinion for 2 rail useage. for 3 rail -märklin :)
Good tips, thanks for adding them. DCC Concepts has some interesting lever designs.
Great coverage of the common options. Have you any experience with the Rapido RailCrew switch machine? They can be installed after your RR is functioning as replacements to manual operation and you can add a functioning switch stand and rotating targets. They do have the switches to control frog polarity and signals.
I have only seen their advertising on them so can’t offer any guidance.
the best for last. I will have to look into the Walthers ones. I like the fact they have a on off switch, so no power being used when they are not in use.
Sparky-you might want to download the instructions from their website and do a close read. After reading the instructions again I am not sure whether the servo stays on or does turn off. I need to experiment with it some tomorrow to try and confirm exactly what it is doing. I’ll get back to you once I see what it is doing.
Ok, servo controllers move the servo motor using a pulse width modulation signal which shuts off power to the servo motor when it reaches the desired position, so on that I was correct. However, the pair of microswitches are there for independent control of things like frog polarity. I also did not mention that these devices have DCC control capacity built in to them. They can be controlled by DCC commands or fascia/panel mounted switches. You can download all the manuals from the Walthers website to get an idea of what the system can do and how it operates.
@@TheDCCGuy thankyou for looking into that more
@@TheDCCGuy they shut off after they switch.
Great video I'm building a new layout myself and would like to include some of these switch machines for my main line. Does the walthers version have signal control capability like the tortoise? Thanks again for sharing. Very informative!!
Thanks for the video, as always very informative. I’m currently building a yard module to Free Mo N specs. So I currently have 6 peco turnouts. I would like them to be DCC controlled. I have a Digitrax Zephyr Express and a Digitrax turnout controller. I would also eventually would like to add signals at some point. What do you think would be the most cost effective turnout motor to use?
I have shown how I use Tortoises, iP Digitals, and Blue Point manual throws so scan back through my videos and watch those and see which you prefer.
Did you see Hans Tanner control system? It is call Iott. He built an universal system who ça. Integrade with loconet an Jmri. It is quite economical and really powerfull.
Was disappointed that you didn’t describe simple servo motors. I can’t afford the tortoise or other brands of slow motion machines and servos were looking like my best option. I hope you do a video on using them.
Solenoid based deigns are practically unavailable in the US but remain popular in the UK. I asked Rick of Rix Products why his is no longer made and he told me he cannot sell them anymore, not enough demand to justify production. I think I did show the Atlas and Peco ones though.
Hi Larry. I've just got back into the hobby after a lot of years lol...so I've been watching your videos now for a while. I was told to take my time to learn as much as I could
so I could make as many smart decisions as I could. I'm at a point now where I'm starting to put everything together a little at a time. I have Kato unitrack with NCE Power Cab.
So at this point I'm trying to make a decision as to which switch machine I should use. I know by watching your switch machine video that you mention the fact that the Toroise
machine is pretty quiet (somewhat prototypical). So if you could give me some feedback on this issue. I'd really appreciate it. Thanks Mark
Mark, you need to evaluate what will be compatible with Unitrack. I am not sure you can use anything with it other than the Kato turnouts and their built in switch machines. I really don’t recommend unitrack or similar designs because in the end it limits your choices and ties you in to specific radii and products. I prefer the flexibility of flextrack and the ability to use turnouts of various designs as well as choose the best switch machine for the job.
@@TheDCCGuy Larry..can't I use switch kats along with my NCE Power Cab and possibly hook it up with a double throw toggle. Would that be possible? Thanks again for getting back to me. Mark
The early solenoid motors liked the ac current because it pulled the core in a jerkey movement ( tempted to say like a hammer drill) which overcame any stickynes, if there was any.
i got 7 turnouts, two will be done automatically due to loop to loop (dogbone) track with single tracksa, the other 5 will be done manually, think the tortoise works out fine for me bec i found out the snap ones are not good enought for me, im looking for asy schematics to do the jobs
Where can you get the blue point controller?
You can get them from MicroMark, Tony’s Trains and many others that will pop up in a Google search.
Do the walther units have provisions for power route switching the frogs? Their instructions on their website are very basic and only cover powering the units up, nothing else.
Yes, there are two micro switches that can be used for power routing frogs. If you dig around on their website there is a 25 page technical manual that goes into much more depth.
Buy the 5 pack and get started. You will not regret.
Do those Walthers machines have a built in Decoder or no>
Yes they do have a built-in accessory decoder.
Ok, hope you don't mind another question. At least this one is closer to being relevant to the video. lol. I use Kato HO track. I know, I'm weird. Anyway, I just got an Nce SwitchKat interface decoder board to control turnouts. (made for the way Kato turnouts work) When programing the switchkat the manual tells how to input the address but doesn't give a clue what it should be and left me scratching my head. I saw another video of a guy programing a similar board from Nce for the tortoise kind of switch. He used an address of 1206 and it worked for me. I then tried 1201 and it didn't work. So my question is: what range of addresses are valid and how can I find out why? I tried searching Nce product info on their web page and cannot find anything. Got any ideas?
The instructions say it supports addresses 1-2044. Reread the programming instructions and see if you got off track there, that usually is the problem. Good luck with it.
Can I use the Tortoise outdoors? If so, how?
I don’t think they are made for use outdoors. You might check with one of the garden railway forums or books to see what they use.
I’m sorry. I may have misled you. I was speaking of the micro servo motors like the SG90 used in robotics and model airplane applications.
OK, I see. That video was made 2 years ago and a lot has progressed as far as using the servo motor driven machines. I need to do a video on those as soon as I get time to do some more research. These do seem to be gaining in popularity.
@@TheDCCGuy Thank you for your prompt reply, Larry. I’ve watched a few videos on the subject but I love the way you explain things. I enjoy all your videos. Have a happy, healthy holiday.
That all assumes these are NOT for N scale!
Actually I think all of these can be used with N scale turnouts. I know that Atlas offers an N scale version of the solenoid type I showed and Caboose Industries offers N scale ground throws. And I can’t see why most of the others would not work with N scale turnouts, you would just have to adjust the throw rod tension or length of throw accordingly.