The idea behind the DISO+ was to allow the modeler pedals with 1/4 inch outs to maintain line level, just like a Helix/Kemper/AxeFX would be and to protect from accidental phantom power damage. We always advise our clients to let the sound tech know to start with the channel gain at minimum and work from there. You can always use the master out level on the pedal to decrease the output if FOH just can't get the gain low enough. Lots of line isolators were available when we intro'd the DISO+ in 2018, but none had the connectors arranged in such a way as to be really pedalboard friendly. And few offer the options we do for XLR Summing and Polarity Reverse (that is very handy for dual Iridium setups or from running UA's Dream and Ruby (in Bril mode) together.) There are a plethora of different DI boxes that would be available at any venue (active, passive, varying models and quality), but if a player wants to have a consistent tone, we offer the opportunity to remove that variable from the equation. Our theory as to why (some) people hear a difference in dynamics between a DI and a line isolator has to do with the turns ratio difference between the two. A line isolator is wound with a 1 to 1 ratio, a DI transformer is typically 10 to 1 or 12 to 1, so the input inductance of a DI transformer will be MUCH higher than that of a line iso transformer. This means that it is a harder load to drive with quick transients or to say it another way: the input of a DI transformer will slightly "slow down" the dynamics of the signal coming out of the modeler. Hope that is helpful.
Definitely helpful! Thanks for all of this. I'm always glad to see a comment from you in the forums, etc, your knowledge of this stuff is an excellent resource for the rest of us non-electrically-inclined guitar doofuses.
Hi there, Just came across your video and I thought I'd leave a few extra bits that might help understanding why you hear a difference or, more accurately, where the difference you hear might come from. First of all, the radial PRO series don't have a flat response from 20Hz-20kHz, better use a JDI for a fair comparison with the Canvas as a DI. The second aspect is that these are both passive boxes that use transformers which can add some harmonic content, especially with a strong input signal. The way these transformers add these might make one sound more pleasant than the other. The third and forth places are... The mic preamp of the interface. Audio interfaces/mixers/consoles work internally with line level signals so threoreticaly, here's how it should be set up Mic signal -> Mic preamp engaged, raises the signal to line level with the input knob acting as a gain knob -> interface Line signal -> Mic preamp bypassed, leaves the signal as is with the input knob acting as a trim knob -> interface Depending on the interface, bypassing the mic preamp can be done using a TRS cable instead of XLR or using dedicated switch If you hook your boxes to your interface as recommended, the DI will pass through the mic preamp while the LI won't. Also, even for very transparent and clean mic preamps, the frequency response is not exactly the same at all gain levels. I hope this helps undestanding the mutlitude of things that are happening In the end, the way I understand the hype around line isolator for guitar signals is basically that people don't really like their mic preamp haha
Thanks! That's all good info, for sure. Yeah, I attribute some of the wildest stories I hear to very strange preamp situations... people saying until they got a line isolator it was physically impossible for them to get enough gain on their guitar signal, even with their amp modeler cranked up to 100%. What kind of lousy preamp situation that must be, I can only guess, haha. Mine is a Focusrite Scarlett so I don't think the preamps are bypassable, though now you've got me wondering if I could have used one of the first two channels and used a 1/4" cable to get around that... hmm. At any rate, I am usually trying to lean on the unit's built in mic preamps as little as possible, so maybe that's why I liked the LI here.
Totally!!! I put my comment before having read this one, but you totally nailed it. All the signal matters, bypassing circuits just keeps a more integral signal (AKA going straight to the input with less amplifiers to rise volume after the signal arrives), always, as every connection is an impedance, every impedance changes the sound. Like you said, people doesn't like their preamps (they colour too much, they introduce too much THD, etc)
Here's the thing, if you have a line level (so not instrument level) it's best to plug that into your board or mixer via the line input to have the less "colored" sound, but that makes sense for home studio. On a stage the sound booth is far away and there's usually more mic input than line input, so it's normal to convert line level signal to mic level to then go through the stage patch going into the mixing desk. So yes, it's cool to have a line isolator at home or on small gigs when you have that possibility, but on an actual stage you need to convert that signal, hence the use of DI. As a final note, yes there would be some loss (mainly because of transformers and capacitors) but in full band mix you would hardly ear the difference with today's analog to digital converters. And for people that does have an amp, you could do reamping with a DI and an additional reamp box (which is a DI in reverse).
Yeah, there's one missing factor to have in mind: when you rise the volume in the preamp, it will always introduce noise and colour, and also harmonic distortion, that's where prices difference are for (regading prime preamps vs crappy soundboards), so I imagine there could be an explanation. Another different scenario would be if you have an interface or soundboard where you get the line signal straight to the input, bypassing any preamp (kinda like many higher end interfaces, consoles or adat converters have, Audient or Antelope are coming to my mind), there you can have an advantage with the canvas, because there's less changes in the sounds. Remember, every connection or circuit is an impedance for the sound, so there will definately be a chenge in the sound.
Yes! This is a huge factor. Especially since a lot of cheaper mixers have cheap pre-amps. Sending a low signal means your sound will be colored by a pre-amp that cost pennies, which can come with noise as well as you mentioned.
Exactly the demo I was looking for. I’m converting my board to stereo and was curious if the quality of the sound of the Canvas was similar to the Radial. Thanks!!
I appreciate the honest response & honesty about the subject matter to have genuine change in perspectives from beginning to end of the video. Helpful for someone like me who has noticed some of the chatter and video clips, wondering what quite are significance worth addressing myself. Helpful, entertaining and appreciate a fellow nerd offering a sound voice on the matter! Thanks again.
Thank you! Yeah I try to go into these videos blind a lot of the time, which means sometimes you can actively see me change my mind mid-video as more evidence comes in, haha.
Actually I find that tone wise, it doesn't change much between the DI vs LI. The major difference is in the dynamics especially with driven sounds. Somehow I always find the LIs much punchier with a better headroom than the DIs, which kinda compresses and makes it sound a tad flubby. Let me know if you're hearing the same thing or maybe its just my imagination haha! PS I run the Canvas Stereo on my rig :)
I too perceive the DI as sounding a little “flatter”. Personally, I’m a bit suss on the transformers Radial are using in some of their cheaper DI’s. I wonder if this test should be made with some different models of DI as well?
Great video! I recently got the Radial PRO D2 since I found it pretty cheap used. After some clinical listening of the gain matched demo, I have a hard time finding the difference even though I might give the edge to the Walrus. Having a fairly cheap mixer, I can see the benefit of not having to touch the gain knobs with a line isolator compared to the "weak" DI signal
I completely agree with you Matt! I hear it too! I am a gear afficionado and by no means a guru in these matter but I reckon maybe it could something be like the opposite effect of an attenuator on a guitar amp in reverse? If you get what I mean? The Radial sounded more... "boxy" than the Walrus audio. Idk if that's what you got from it but it seemed to be stopping some of the natural gain and what sounded like the low and low mids. But i wasn't listening with headphones so couldn't tell for sure. Thanks for the great review! Really helped me decide to get this bad boy
as far as the gain or level goes, I'd rather go into the board hot. You start to introduce more noise when you reach for the gain knob on a sound board.The hotter the signal, the less gain needed and less noise introduced. having said that, I DO NOT WANT ANYTHING TO COLOR MY SOUND THAT I HAVE SPENT TIME BUILDING. If a box colors my sound, I won't be plugging into it. I understand that Pre-amps may color them as well.... but less gain means less coloring as well.
The canvas on DI mode on this comparison is already different from radial. The canvas compared to radial is more flat and neutral. Radial has a mid hump, it's like I have a tube screamer active in my signal chain. It also softens the tone but still very dynamic. The dynamic range is very wide. Both the ProDI and JDI has that mid hump. Both are so identical in my ears, I would not be able to differ without seeing. I do love the radial on gigs direct to console, very dynamic and the mid hump does really helps to tame and fatten the harshy skinny single coil bridge. I don't have any experience with canvas, wish I can try it out soon.
Radial has the 'Ice Cube' isolator now. I think it functions the same as the two mentioned here. Very compact and works well, but if I had known about the Walrus's versatility I may have picked the latter one up instead.
Great video, thanks for the comparisons. One year later I see there are at least 4 Line Isolator brands out there (maybe more) , and agree that the line isolator is so much better. CHeers !!
Oh yeah? I still haven't really seen anything come out that has the same feature set as the DISO and the Canvas. I know Radial makes one but I think the signal has to already be coming in as XLR or something, it's not quite for this purpose. That's cool if there are others starting to pop up that I'm not aware of, though.
I am actually in talking with Pinstripe pedals right now to make a custom box. I am trying to build a stereo rig, but I do play often for lots of different places, and that XLR sum feature from Pinstripe is very appealing to me. (Walrus only sums 1/4" outs). However, Pinstripe didn't have DI / LI switch feature. When I inquired about this, they said they can build a custom box that has the switchable DI feature, but also recommended me just adding on the switchable -20db pad. They said DI box transformers will make signal bit darker and bit more compressed. Just like you, I am very skeptical when it comes to "this changes tone" type of things. But listening to your video the difference is there. Though probably neglectable in live gig. Having preamp cranked up bit would also add into the factor. On paper these changes shouldn't exist but more often than not I've experienced otherwise, though very minimal.
Great demo! I use the ProD2 on my board, one channel for electric and one for acoustic. Like others have said, so much depends on the board you're sending to and its preamps. I enjoy the sound of our Midas preamps so for me, running it through them and getting a little of that color is a good thing. But I can totally see the benefit of a line isolator if you want to avoid that. I may switch to the canvas at some point just to have the option when I'm on the road.
Line isolation has also been addressed by Radial - Ice Cube, Twin Iso, and Stage Bug SB-6. I use two of these in my 3-amp rig and they work great. The real problem, as I see it, is how to retain dynamics of the original guitar signal within the DI without adding noise. I use a Countryman Type 10S and a Signal Art Reamp box for this application, with a Prism Titan converter. After endless A/B'ing, the DI smears/increases mid frequency information, and EQing doesn't recreate the original liveliness of the original analogue guitar signal. Would the Walrus Canvas (and Reamp) solve this problem?
Here are my thoughts. I suspect the line level may clip the transformer a bit more leading to “sweeter mids”. I have been doing a much of research on transformers in audio gear. Maybe someone else can chime in on this.
I think louder is literally better for DI boxes. I have been using a cheap DI with low level, causing my sound guy to have to turn up the gain at the board. In doing so it created microphonic feedback. After replacing the DI and sending a hotter signal to the board, all the feedback went away.
What I hear is that Line Isolator seems to have a little extra bite and overall is a little more dynamic ( you can hear it the most in just the pick attack - 15:00 ). Tonally - there won't be much of a difference but from my experience it may really enhance the feel while you play. I noticed it when trying my Tonex pedal in the effects loop of HX Stomp vs just the Tonex pedal as a standalone. When I heard them back to back in my DAW - I would never guess which is which regarding the tonal difference. But somehow when I played them back to back there was a difference in the punch and dynamics and it was very similar to what I hear in this video. Thanks for the video !
Please tell me: 1) you connect the guitar cable directly to the line isolator, but the guitar cable has high resistance, and the isolator has a line input (with linear resistance like synthesizers) or am I missing something? 2) from the isolator, do you connect the cable to the XLR microphone input with very low impedance? But the isolator has a linear output with a resistance similar to that of synthesizers, higher than the microphone output, or am I again not understanding something? 3) As a result, we connect the cable from the electric guitar, which has a high resistance, to the insulator, and from the insulator we connect the XLR cable to the XLR microphone input, is this what should be done? 
I run a Helix to FOH. I tried using the XLR outs but accidental phantom power gave me trouble. I tried phantom blockers (they need to be engaged a little before hooking up to the unit), but now I just run 2 jacks out instead, I've had no issues since, but I have thought about lineisolation. But for now I'm fine.
Yeah, the phantom power thing probably depends a lot on where you are and what gear the church is using. Our board for the last few years had like, global phantom power, where if you turned it on for any channel it turned on for all of them. That caused me a lot of problems and I tried to set up my pedalboards accordingly. With our new sound board it's probably not an issue...
Kind of new at this, so stick with me. I get and understand the signal chain to the mixer. I understand that this device can separately act as both a DI and as Line Isolator. Here is where I am fuzzy. Going from the ToneX into recording via my DAW, what is the signal chain? If I run - guitar to tonex, then tonex to the Line Isolator (for full single), does the Line Isolator connect via USB to the computer and act as the main audio input into the computer? Ok next question: Stereo from the Line isolator. Can I use a "split Y" XLR from the back of the tonex (output), run it through the Line Isolator (into the L/R channels) to create a stereo effect within the DAW? Thank you R.
Well, the line isolator doesn't plug straight into your computer. In the same way that using it live, you'd come out of the LI and into your sound board, in the studio I come out of the LI and into my recording interface. So you do still need a recording interface, and if that device has DI features built in then you could maybe skip the LI. Personally when I'm recording, I sometimes use the Canvas LI but sometimes I just go straight into my mic preamp and that's been fine, it has a hi-Z input meant for this. As far as stereo goes - doesn't the ToneX have a separate left and right output? I don't think you need a split Y cable. But yes the stereo Canvas or stereo DISO are meant for plugging a stereo amp modeler into, for sure.
I am using a Tone Hammer DI. Because it lets you control the gain and volume out to the board, would that be more like a Line Isolator than a DI because the volume doesn't drop off? I am running my HX Stomp into a THDI then out to the board. I use the AGS circuit and have my gain set about 9 o'clock. I like the AGS better than the Teemah or some of the other dirt settings in the HXS.
It sounds like the Tone Hammer is more like a flexible DI; my understanding is that line isolator is electrically a different thing. I wonder if the THDI is lowering the signal to mic level but then giving you lots of range to make it louder or quieter from there. Looks like a great unit, for sure.
Do you still like your Canvas today? I have the HX Stomp, tho having a DI box is not needed, I just want to have that peace of mind to not ever worry about 'damaging' my Helix. Now I am torn between Canvas and a Radial ProD2 Mono. If you are me, what will you get? Or just a regular affordable DI would suffice?
I am still using the Canvas, though the ProDI is a terrific piece of equipment too. I slightly prefer the tone of the Canvas but I use ProDIs on acoustic and bass every week with no issues. I’m not a big fan of the super cheap DIs but I’ve used the behringer ultra DI and the blue CBI one when I was first starting out and they did get the job done.
Might be an idea to avoid the preamps on the mixer since the signal does not need pre-amplification. Get a female xlr to trs cable and use a line-in socket on the mixer.
its not working, balanced cabel cuts high frequences if used as unbalanced, i try resold or install converter from xlr to trs and what i see on eq - it cut hi frequency
Thanks! I don't think the DI/LI situation would make any difference to pickup hum. I just use a noise gate right at the beginning of my pedalboard to trim out some of that hum before the rest of the pedals. Mine is an EHX Silencer but there are others that work just as well, I'm sure.
I liked the Canvas… ProDi2 sounded duller A possible result of hitting your converter less hot on the way in. I know that is always a fact for me. Cheers
Hey - thx for doing this test. Interesting comparison for sure! Have you tried comparing the sound from preamps/simulators with built in XLR-out to the sound from a DI/Line Isolator? Could be interesting to see if there would be a noticeable difference in sound quality? God bless from Denmark/EU 🤗
Thanks! I haven't, only because none of the modelers I have access to even have the XLR out. Back when I had one that did (the Amplifire 3) I just used that instead of a DI, it was pretty convenient.
Thanks for the great explanation and examples. Which one is best for connecting a guitar directly to interface? Walrus stated that guitar -> interface = DI whereas modeler/keyboard -> interface = LI. Also, there's another one I found called Lehle P-ISO that combines both LI and DI without a switch unlike the Walrus.
Ah, I haven’t heard of the Lehle one. I wonder how they manage that, since each is such a different level. Anyway I’ve used both DI and LI to run into an interface, though I actually tend to prefer LI since I can use a lot less of the interface’s gain that way.
@@LeFeversAudio I think I'll pickup the Walrus because of the switch. Will be easier to switch between the two modes. Walrus recommends DI for high impedance and LI for low impedance. Should be easier when using different guitars with active (low impedance) vs passive (high impedance) pickups.
Definitely a viable option. I have the output level on my Iridium at 25% right now to use it with the line isolator, there’s certainly plenty more volume where that came from.
Wouldn’t recording with DI then with the LI be a bit more conclusive, if you match the gain levels, then inverted the phase? Then you could tell if there was any additional signal added to the wave form
I can’t really imagine how I’d gain match them SO closely that I could do a phase null between them and have it cancel perfectly, but that’d certainly be an interesting test if someone could pull it off…
I do think that passive DI dropping signal to mic level does make sense. Before the cab sim technology was founded, the microphone miking the cab is sending a mic level signal.
Almost bought the canvas, but then I just play at home from my dream pedal through my pedalboard Into my mixer. I think what I’m looking for is something like the EUNA or OAMP
I think in that case the only benefit might be isolating your modeler from any phantom power getting sent to it. Some folks worry about that, and others are in a situation where it's unlikely to come up. I'm not sure how much of an issue it's likely to be, it probably depends on the amp modeler.
I think you should give the Radial JDI a try. I had a PRO Di. First time I dropped it the transformer got loose and died, no help from Radial/outside warranty. Jensen transformers are a step up. Line signals can run passive Di's better than instrument levels, but there will still be some high end loss. As a rule of thumb I always go with active Di's, today active Di's can handle hot line signals, in the past they couldn't. Passive can work when needed, but it's not the best signal. FWIW
I've heard nothing but glowing reviews of those Radial JDI's. In line isolator world, I know the Pinstripe ones use Jensen transformers, too, but the Walrus was easier to come by so I started there.
I don't see why not... I typically use a DI with an acoustic though, since that's what most every other acoustic player does so that's what the sound board usually expects.
I had truly never heard of that until this moment but, maybe! Based on a quick read, it looks like it's switchable between line and DI output, like the Canvas is.
I haven’t followed this debate closely…or at all…but I assumed that the purpose of a line isolator was to improve signal-to-noise ratio by avoiding the pad and then boost that comes with a DI. Why are you choosing to use the line isolator going forward?
That’s about it, yeah. I’m usually pretty happy with a DI but during this A/B test I noticed the LI seemed to have a bit more bite in the high mids; something there that I liked. It’s pretty subtle but it made me slightly prefer the Canvas.
Great video that gives me more doubt about what I need LOL, Questions, Im a noob with digital sound, and sound, in general, to be honest. I have a Tonex in the HX Effects loop to a Fender FR12 power speaker... Some HiGain Captures have some amp humm noise, pitchy noise, etc, that you dont hear on a record and are super clean. I see the Di will balance the signal, like Beringher ultra DI ( I see some people using this with Tonex, but not sure how ), and the Line Isolator i see other videos that give a nice crisp sound. ( line isolator th-cam.com/video/D4s-dr2Qx10/w-d-xo.html ) So for my setup, the HiGain amp noise, is better a DI or a line isolator, for live and record? Is there a line isolator that is as affordable and good as the Cambas? Thanks.
Thanks! You know, I'm not sure whether the choice of DI would have much effect on the kind of noise you're describing, a lot of that high gain amp hum and hiss is best handled with a noise gate. Are you using any of the noise gates on the HX Effects at all? The biggest difference between different DIs and line isolators is just volume, and then a little bit of difference to the tone. But if you're getting amp noise it'll probably still happen with a DI/LI as well. I usually lean on a noise gate to help with that.
If you’re referring to where I mention balanced vs unbalanced cables, I’m fairly confident the reason to use a balanced cable is so you can null out any sound introduced along the length of a long cable run. That comes up in nearly every discussion of these devices. If I neglected to mention another element, like impedance, then you’re probably right. I’m not very electrically minded and never claim to be.
What this video shows me is how overrated the Radial DI’s are. I already didn’t like them because you can’t fix them and they do die. Open that line isolator and I bet there is nothing in there but a nice transformer. An isolator is 1:1 winding ratio and a DI is 1:20 ratio or something. Open that Radial PASSIVE DI and you will find a full circuit board full of parts. Looks more like a crossover. But you can’t really see the components without de-soldering every connector. You should really try this with a different DI with nothing but a Jensen transformer. I think you will find then, they are the same.
Honestly that's completely understandable. This whole DI box versus line isolator thing is very much people arguing over the last 5% of their guitar tone. Very subtle differences.
Yeah... I couldn't really figure out what was going on with the ones Radial offers. They all seem to be XLR input 1/4" output (backwards from what I want), or they use RCA cables, or some other weird thing. A lot of them look like they convert balanced signals to * unbalanced *, which is like the exact opposite of helpful for this purpose. It's possible I'm missing something but I did scour the Radial site pretty thoroughly a while ago and they didn't seem to make anything quite like this, just isolators for other niche pro audio tasks.
One logical explanation to why you may get different sound (lost highs): wrong input impedence matching. See th-cam.com/video/N05OI9kepts/w-d-xo.html @ 8:15
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The idea behind the DISO+ was to allow the modeler pedals with 1/4 inch outs to maintain line level, just like a Helix/Kemper/AxeFX would be and to protect from accidental phantom power damage. We always advise our clients to let the sound tech know to start with the channel gain at minimum and work from there. You can always use the master out level on the pedal to decrease the output if FOH just can't get the gain low enough. Lots of line isolators were available when we intro'd the DISO+ in 2018, but none had the connectors arranged in such a way as to be really pedalboard friendly. And few offer the options we do for XLR Summing and Polarity Reverse (that is very handy for dual Iridium setups or from running UA's Dream and Ruby (in Bril mode) together.) There are a plethora of different DI boxes that would be available at any venue (active, passive, varying models and quality), but if a player wants to have a consistent tone, we offer the opportunity to remove that variable from the equation. Our theory as to why (some) people hear a difference in dynamics between a DI and a line isolator has to do with the turns ratio difference between the two. A line isolator is wound with a 1 to 1 ratio, a DI transformer is typically 10 to 1 or 12 to 1, so the input inductance of a DI transformer will be MUCH higher than that of a line iso transformer. This means that it is a harder load to drive with quick transients or to say it another way: the input of a DI transformer will slightly "slow down" the dynamics of the signal coming out of the modeler. Hope that is helpful.
Definitely helpful! Thanks for all of this. I'm always glad to see a comment from you in the forums, etc, your knowledge of this stuff is an excellent resource for the rest of us non-electrically-inclined guitar doofuses.
Man this was so helpful!
Super helpful!
I recently purchased a Neve DI box. Girls already find me more attractive, and the thing hasn't even arrived in the mail yet.
😂
Hi there,
Just came across your video and I thought I'd leave a few extra bits that might help understanding why you hear a difference or, more accurately, where the difference you hear might come from.
First of all, the radial PRO series don't have a flat response from 20Hz-20kHz, better use a JDI for a fair comparison with the Canvas as a DI.
The second aspect is that these are both passive boxes that use transformers which can add some harmonic content, especially with a strong input signal. The way these transformers add these might make one sound more pleasant than the other.
The third and forth places are... The mic preamp of the interface.
Audio interfaces/mixers/consoles work internally with line level signals so threoreticaly, here's how it should be set up
Mic signal -> Mic preamp engaged, raises the signal to line level with the input knob acting as a gain knob -> interface
Line signal -> Mic preamp bypassed, leaves the signal as is with the input knob acting as a trim knob -> interface
Depending on the interface, bypassing the mic preamp can be done using a TRS cable instead of XLR or using dedicated switch
If you hook your boxes to your interface as recommended, the DI will pass through the mic preamp while the LI won't.
Also, even for very transparent and clean mic preamps, the frequency response is not exactly the same at all gain levels.
I hope this helps undestanding the mutlitude of things that are happening
In the end, the way I understand the hype around line isolator for guitar signals is basically that people don't really like their mic preamp haha
Thanks! That's all good info, for sure. Yeah, I attribute some of the wildest stories I hear to very strange preamp situations... people saying until they got a line isolator it was physically impossible for them to get enough gain on their guitar signal, even with their amp modeler cranked up to 100%. What kind of lousy preamp situation that must be, I can only guess, haha.
Mine is a Focusrite Scarlett so I don't think the preamps are bypassable, though now you've got me wondering if I could have used one of the first two channels and used a 1/4" cable to get around that... hmm. At any rate, I am usually trying to lean on the unit's built in mic preamps as little as possible, so maybe that's why I liked the LI here.
Totally!!! I put my comment before having read this one, but you totally nailed it. All the signal matters, bypassing circuits just keeps a more integral signal (AKA going straight to the input with less amplifiers to rise volume after the signal arrives), always, as every connection is an impedance, every impedance changes the sound. Like you said, people doesn't like their preamps (they colour too much, they introduce too much THD, etc)
Here's the thing, if you have a line level (so not instrument level) it's best to plug that into your board or mixer via the line input to have the less "colored" sound, but that makes sense for home studio.
On a stage the sound booth is far away and there's usually more mic input than line input, so it's normal to convert line level signal to mic level to then go through the stage patch going into the mixing desk.
So yes, it's cool to have a line isolator at home or on small gigs when you have that possibility, but on an actual stage you need to convert that signal, hence the use of DI.
As a final note, yes there would be some loss (mainly because of transformers and capacitors) but in full band mix you would hardly ear the difference with today's analog to digital converters.
And for people that does have an amp, you could do reamping with a DI and an additional reamp box (which is a DI in reverse).
Yeah, there's one missing factor to have in mind: when you rise the volume in the preamp, it will always introduce noise and colour, and also harmonic distortion, that's where prices difference are for (regading prime preamps vs crappy soundboards), so I imagine there could be an explanation. Another different scenario would be if you have an interface or soundboard where you get the line signal straight to the input, bypassing any preamp (kinda like many higher end interfaces, consoles or adat converters have, Audient or Antelope are coming to my mind), there you can have an advantage with the canvas, because there's less changes in the sounds. Remember, every connection or circuit is an impedance for the sound, so there will definately be a chenge in the sound.
Yes! This is a huge factor. Especially since a lot of cheaper mixers have cheap pre-amps. Sending a low signal means your sound will be colored by a pre-amp that cost pennies, which can come with noise as well as you mentioned.
10:20-10:24 absolute facts
I don’t know why this is such an issue for people on the desk
Just turn it up - What is the issue?
Exactly the demo I was looking for. I’m converting my board to stereo and was curious if the quality of the sound of the Canvas was similar to the Radial. Thanks!!
should of also just tried to send the signal from the modeller straight into daw bypassing line iso to compare.
I appreciate the honest response & honesty about the subject matter to have genuine change in perspectives from beginning to end of the video. Helpful for someone like me who has noticed some of the chatter and video clips, wondering what quite are significance worth addressing myself. Helpful, entertaining and appreciate a fellow nerd offering a sound voice on the matter! Thanks again.
Thank you! Yeah I try to go into these videos blind a lot of the time, which means sometimes you can actively see me change my mind mid-video as more evidence comes in, haha.
Actually I find that tone wise, it doesn't change much between the DI vs LI. The major difference is in the dynamics especially with driven sounds. Somehow I always find the LIs much punchier with a better headroom than the DIs, which kinda compresses and makes it sound a tad flubby. Let me know if you're hearing the same thing or maybe its just my imagination haha!
PS I run the Canvas Stereo on my rig :)
I would agree with that. There's definitely something I like better about it, could definitely be a dynamics thing.
Yes. On that kind of mathy riff he played you could really hear it.
I too perceive the DI as sounding a little “flatter”. Personally, I’m a bit suss on the transformers Radial are using in some of their cheaper DI’s. I wonder if this test should be made with some different models of DI as well?
Shout out to the Simplifier which is an analog amp modeler pedal that has stereo DI outs 🤟
You should do a null test between the two channels to know for sure if the Canvas is changing the sound.
Great video! I recently got the Radial PRO D2 since I found it pretty cheap used. After some clinical listening of the gain matched demo, I have a hard time finding the difference even though I might give the edge to the Walrus. Having a fairly cheap mixer, I can see the benefit of not having to touch the gain knobs with a line isolator compared to the "weak" DI signal
Noticed it immediately. The chords in the DI sound squashed. Line isolator sounds more open
I completely agree with you Matt! I hear it too! I am a gear afficionado and by no means a guru in these matter but I reckon maybe it could something be like the opposite effect of an attenuator on a guitar amp in reverse? If you get what I mean? The Radial sounded more... "boxy" than the Walrus audio. Idk if that's what you got from it but it seemed to be stopping some of the natural gain and what sounded like the low and low mids. But i wasn't listening with headphones so couldn't tell for sure.
Thanks for the great review! Really helped me decide to get this bad boy
That’s a good way to put it… a little more ‘open’ and maybe a tad more aggressive (in a good way!)
as far as the gain or level goes, I'd rather go into the board hot. You start to introduce more noise when you reach for the gain knob on a sound board.The hotter the signal, the less gain needed and less noise introduced. having said that, I DO NOT WANT ANYTHING TO COLOR MY SOUND THAT I HAVE SPENT TIME BUILDING. If a box colors my sound, I won't be plugging into it. I understand that Pre-amps may color them as well.... but less gain means less coloring as well.
The canvas on DI mode on this comparison is already different from radial.
The canvas compared to radial is more flat and neutral. Radial has a mid hump, it's like I have a tube screamer active in my signal chain. It also softens the tone but still very dynamic. The dynamic range is very wide. Both the ProDI and JDI has that mid hump. Both are so identical in my ears, I would not be able to differ without seeing.
I do love the radial on gigs direct to console, very dynamic and the mid hump does really helps to tame and fatten the harshy skinny single coil bridge. I don't have any experience with canvas, wish I can try it out soon.
Radial has the 'Ice Cube' isolator now. I think it functions the same as the two mentioned here. Very compact and works well, but if I had known about the Walrus's versatility I may have picked the latter one up instead.
Yeah, I’m fairly certain the Ice Cube is the same sort of thing; I avoided it because it has an XLR input (I think?) but definitely on the same vein.
they also have stage bug
Great video, thanks for the comparisons. One year later I see there are at least 4 Line Isolator brands out there (maybe more) , and agree that the line isolator is so much better. CHeers !!
Oh yeah? I still haven't really seen anything come out that has the same feature set as the DISO and the Canvas. I know Radial makes one but I think the signal has to already be coming in as XLR or something, it's not quite for this purpose. That's cool if there are others starting to pop up that I'm not aware of, though.
I am actually in talking with Pinstripe pedals right now to make a custom box. I am trying to build a stereo rig, but I do play often for lots of different places, and that XLR sum feature from Pinstripe is very appealing to me. (Walrus only sums 1/4" outs). However, Pinstripe didn't have DI / LI switch feature. When I inquired about this, they said they can build a custom box that has the switchable DI feature, but also recommended me just adding on the switchable -20db pad. They said DI box transformers will make signal bit darker and bit more compressed. Just like you, I am very skeptical when it comes to "this changes tone" type of things. But listening to your video the difference is there. Though probably neglectable in live gig. Having preamp cranked up bit would also add into the factor.
On paper these changes shouldn't exist but more often than not I've experienced otherwise, though very minimal.
Totally agree. That’s interesting about the switchable pad, I could see how that’d be the better way to go rather than a true DI.
I agree the Canvas sounded better, more punchy and tighter. Thanks of this video !
Great demo! I use the ProD2 on my board, one channel for electric and one for acoustic. Like others have said, so much depends on the board you're sending to and its preamps. I enjoy the sound of our Midas preamps so for me, running it through them and getting a little of that color is a good thing. But I can totally see the benefit of a line isolator if you want to avoid that. I may switch to the canvas at some point just to have the option when I'm on the road.
Bravo! Thank You!
Line isolation has also been addressed by Radial - Ice Cube, Twin Iso, and Stage Bug SB-6. I use two of these in my 3-amp rig and they work great.
The real problem, as I see it, is how to retain dynamics of the original guitar signal within the DI without adding noise. I use a Countryman Type 10S and a Signal Art Reamp box for this application, with a Prism Titan converter. After endless A/B'ing, the DI smears/increases mid frequency information, and EQing doesn't recreate the original liveliness of the original analogue guitar signal. Would the Walrus Canvas (and Reamp) solve this problem?
Here are my thoughts. I suspect the line level may clip the transformer a bit more leading to “sweeter mids”. I have been doing a much of research on transformers in audio gear. Maybe someone else can chime in on this.
I think louder is literally better for DI boxes. I have been using a cheap DI with low level, causing my sound guy to have to turn up the gain at the board. In doing so it created microphonic feedback. After replacing the DI and sending a hotter signal to the board, all the feedback went away.
What I hear is that Line Isolator seems to have a little extra bite and overall is a little more dynamic ( you can hear it the most in just the pick attack - 15:00 ).
Tonally - there won't be much of a difference but from my experience it may really enhance the feel while you play.
I noticed it when trying my Tonex pedal in the effects loop of HX Stomp vs just the Tonex pedal as a standalone.
When I heard them back to back in my DAW - I would never guess which is which regarding the tonal difference.
But somehow when I played them back to back there was a difference in the punch and dynamics and it was very similar to what I hear in this video.
Thanks for the video !
That was my exact feeling too, well put. Thanks!
Which is the best option if im running through the Quad Cortex?
i think the Radial sounds more crisp personally
So informative thanks man
Please tell me: 1) you connect the guitar cable directly to the line isolator, but the guitar cable has high resistance, and the isolator has a line input (with linear resistance like synthesizers) or am I missing something? 2) from the isolator, do you connect the cable to the XLR microphone input with very low impedance? But the isolator has a linear output with a resistance similar to that of synthesizers, higher than the microphone output, or am I again not understanding something? 3) As a result, we connect the cable from the electric guitar, which has a high resistance, to the insulator, and from the insulator we connect the XLR cable to the XLR microphone input, is this what should be done?

I run a Helix to FOH. I tried using the XLR outs but accidental phantom power gave me trouble. I tried phantom blockers (they need to be engaged a little before hooking up to the unit), but now I just run 2 jacks out instead, I've had no issues since, but I have thought about lineisolation. But for now I'm fine.
Yeah, the phantom power thing probably depends a lot on where you are and what gear the church is using. Our board for the last few years had like, global phantom power, where if you turned it on for any channel it turned on for all of them. That caused me a lot of problems and I tried to set up my pedalboards accordingly. With our new sound board it's probably not an issue...
Kind of new at this, so stick with me. I get and understand the signal chain to the mixer. I understand that this device can separately act as both a DI and as Line Isolator. Here is where I am fuzzy. Going from the ToneX into recording via my DAW, what is the signal chain? If I run - guitar to tonex, then tonex to the Line Isolator (for full single), does the Line Isolator connect via USB to the computer and act as the main audio input into the computer? Ok next question: Stereo from the Line isolator. Can I use a "split Y" XLR from the back of the tonex (output), run it through the Line Isolator (into the L/R channels) to create a stereo effect within the DAW? Thank you R.
Well, the line isolator doesn't plug straight into your computer. In the same way that using it live, you'd come out of the LI and into your sound board, in the studio I come out of the LI and into my recording interface. So you do still need a recording interface, and if that device has DI features built in then you could maybe skip the LI.
Personally when I'm recording, I sometimes use the Canvas LI but sometimes I just go straight into my mic preamp and that's been fine, it has a hi-Z input meant for this.
As far as stereo goes - doesn't the ToneX have a separate left and right output? I don't think you need a split Y cable. But yes the stereo Canvas or stereo DISO are meant for plugging a stereo amp modeler into, for sure.
Thank you !!@@LeFeversAudio
I am using a Tone Hammer DI. Because it lets you control the gain and volume out to the board, would that be more like a Line Isolator than a DI because the volume doesn't drop off? I am running my HX Stomp into a THDI then out to the board. I use the AGS circuit and have my gain set about 9 o'clock. I like the AGS better than the Teemah or some of the other dirt settings in the HXS.
It sounds like the Tone Hammer is more like a flexible DI; my understanding is that line isolator is electrically a different thing. I wonder if the THDI is lowering the signal to mic level but then giving you lots of range to make it louder or quieter from there. Looks like a great unit, for sure.
Do you still like your Canvas today? I have the HX Stomp, tho having a DI box is not needed, I just want to have that peace of mind to not ever worry about 'damaging' my Helix.
Now I am torn between Canvas and a Radial ProD2 Mono. If you are me, what will you get? Or just a regular affordable DI would suffice?
I am still using the Canvas, though the ProDI is a terrific piece of equipment too. I slightly prefer the tone of the Canvas but I use ProDIs on acoustic and bass every week with no issues.
I’m not a big fan of the super cheap DIs but I’ve used the behringer ultra DI and the blue CBI one when I was first starting out and they did get the job done.
@@LeFeversAudio I guess Canvas is my next purchase then haha
Might be an idea to avoid the preamps on the mixer since the signal does not need pre-amplification. Get a female xlr to trs cable and use a line-in socket on the mixer.
its not working, balanced cabel cuts high frequences if used as unbalanced, i try resold or install converter from xlr to trs and what i see on eq - it cut hi frequency
@@vladimirst1846 that should not be the case. What model mixer you plugging in to?
well done. thanks! this was the info I wanted
For Guitars with single coils with hum what you recommend? Great video
Thanks! I don't think the DI/LI situation would make any difference to pickup hum. I just use a noise gate right at the beginning of my pedalboard to trim out some of that hum before the rest of the pedals. Mine is an EHX Silencer but there are others that work just as well, I'm sure.
I liked the Canvas…
ProDi2 sounded duller
A possible result of hitting your converter less hot on the way in.
I know that is always a fact for me.
Cheers
Hey - thx for doing this test. Interesting comparison for sure! Have you tried comparing the sound from preamps/simulators with built in XLR-out to the sound from a DI/Line Isolator? Could be interesting to see if there would be a noticeable difference in sound quality? God bless from Denmark/EU 🤗
Thanks! I haven't, only because none of the modelers I have access to even have the XLR out. Back when I had one that did (the Amplifire 3) I just used that instead of a DI, it was pretty convenient.
I think the DI sound is more treblelly maybe a JDI will match more both. But an interesting video Thanx!
Thanks for the great explanation and examples. Which one is best for connecting a guitar directly to interface? Walrus stated that guitar -> interface = DI whereas modeler/keyboard -> interface = LI. Also, there's another one I found called Lehle P-ISO that combines both LI and DI without a switch unlike the Walrus.
Ah, I haven’t heard of the Lehle one. I wonder how they manage that, since each is such a different level.
Anyway I’ve used both DI and LI to run into an interface, though I actually tend to prefer LI since I can use a lot less of the interface’s gain that way.
@@LeFeversAudio I think I'll pickup the Walrus because of the switch. Will be easier to switch between the two modes. Walrus recommends DI for high impedance and LI for low impedance.
Should be easier when using different guitars with active (low impedance) vs passive (high impedance) pickups.
Just raise the volume on your modeler and use a regular DI box
Definitely a viable option. I have the output level on my Iridium at 25% right now to use it with the line isolator, there’s certainly plenty more volume where that came from.
Wouldn’t recording with DI then with the LI be a bit more conclusive, if you match the gain levels, then inverted the phase? Then you could tell if there was any additional signal added to the wave form
I can’t really imagine how I’d gain match them SO closely that I could do a phase null between them and have it cancel perfectly, but that’d certainly be an interesting test if someone could pull it off…
Good job Bro
I do think that passive DI dropping signal to mic level does make sense.
Before the cab sim technology was founded, the microphone miking the cab is sending a mic level signal.
I just got a Hx stomp and want to make sure it’s protected against phantom power. Will any DI work?
Yes! Any DI or line isolator will isolate the Stomp from phantom power, no worries there.
Almost bought the canvas, but then I just play at home from my dream pedal through my pedalboard Into my mixer. I think what I’m looking for is something like the EUNA or OAMP
you're a good guitar player...nice little bonus! 😀
Ha! Thanks
I've always scratched my head at that step down to mic level on line signals FWIW
Di takes instrument level not line level (typically). Also, the other part of the line isolator has to do with correctly adjusting the impedance.
but a good DI box alwys deals with impedance mismatch, right?
so i guess just put a volume clean boost before the DI?
10:05 EXACTLY! I do live/studio sound, and yes, I concur. Let us handle levels, we'll make 'em hot and full-on or your money back lol
If i have a 1/4 trs balanced out and i just use a trs to xlr cable, i should need or see a benefit from an iso right?
I think in that case the only benefit might be isolating your modeler from any phantom power getting sent to it. Some folks worry about that, and others are in a situation where it's unlikely to come up. I'm not sure how much of an issue it's likely to be, it probably depends on the amp modeler.
Do players use this this directly out of the pedalboard or do you running a preamp and then to the canvas is the way to go?
There needs to be some sort of amp - these are mainly intended to follow up something like a Strymon Iridium, UA Ruby, HX Stomp, or Walrus ACS1.
Well, I hear a difference between them. That is slight, but still is. And same, more prefer canvas.
I think you should give the Radial JDI a try. I had a PRO Di. First time I dropped it the transformer got loose and died, no help from Radial/outside warranty. Jensen transformers are a step up. Line signals can run passive Di's better than instrument levels, but there will still be some high end loss. As a rule of thumb I always go with active Di's, today active Di's can handle hot line signals, in the past they couldn't. Passive can work when needed, but it's not the best signal. FWIW
I've heard nothing but glowing reviews of those Radial JDI's. In line isolator world, I know the Pinstripe ones use Jensen transformers, too, but the Walrus was easier to come by so I started there.
Will the line isolator work well with an acoustic?
I don't see why not... I typically use a DI with an acoustic though, since that's what most every other acoustic player does so that's what the sound board usually expects.
Does Eventide mixing link count?
I had truly never heard of that until this moment but, maybe! Based on a quick read, it looks like it's switchable between line and DI output, like the Canvas is.
I haven’t followed this debate closely…or at all…but I assumed that the purpose of a line isolator was to improve signal-to-noise ratio by avoiding the pad and then boost that comes with a DI. Why are you choosing to use the line isolator going forward?
That’s about it, yeah. I’m usually pretty happy with a DI but during this A/B test I noticed the LI seemed to have a bit more bite in the high mids; something there that I liked. It’s pretty subtle but it made me slightly prefer the Canvas.
all the soundboards I've used have jack inputs also..... hmmmmm
line isolator does sound more dynamic. less compression.
you would get more church girls with that rainbow box bro
Omg, dude! Your guitar playing went from novice to Vai with the Line rainbow box thingy....also it made you look like Brad pitt
It does have that effect 😂
Great video that gives me more doubt about what I need LOL,
Questions, Im a noob with digital sound, and sound, in general, to be honest.
I have a Tonex in the HX Effects loop to a Fender FR12 power speaker...
Some HiGain Captures have some amp humm noise, pitchy noise, etc, that you dont hear on a record and are super clean.
I see the Di will balance the signal, like Beringher ultra DI ( I see some people using this with Tonex, but not sure how ), and the Line Isolator i see other videos that give a nice crisp sound. ( line isolator th-cam.com/video/D4s-dr2Qx10/w-d-xo.html )
So for my setup, the HiGain amp noise, is better a DI or a line isolator, for live and record?
Is there a line isolator that is as affordable and good as the Cambas?
Thanks.
Thanks! You know, I'm not sure whether the choice of DI would have much effect on the kind of noise you're describing, a lot of that high gain amp hum and hiss is best handled with a noise gate. Are you using any of the noise gates on the HX Effects at all?
The biggest difference between different DIs and line isolators is just volume, and then a little bit of difference to the tone. But if you're getting amp noise it'll probably still happen with a DI/LI as well. I usually lean on a noise gate to help with that.
@@LeFeversAudio I dont like noise gate, they change the tone and when you play dont feel the same.
Thanks for the feedback,
This video has a lot of misinformation. It’s an impedance mismatch, not the type of cable or how long the cable is being run.
If you’re referring to where I mention balanced vs unbalanced cables, I’m fairly confident the reason to use a balanced cable is so you can null out any sound introduced along the length of a long cable run. That comes up in nearly every discussion of these devices. If I neglected to mention another element, like impedance, then you’re probably right. I’m not very electrically minded and never claim to be.
I don’t hear any difference. It may be a feel or slight thing the actual player would notice. Certainly not in a mix imo
10:10 unless you’re a bassist. You start pumping up the gain, and you get distorted, farting out tone.
What this video shows me is how overrated the Radial DI’s are. I already didn’t like them because you can’t fix them and they do die. Open that line isolator and I bet there is nothing in there but a nice transformer. An isolator is 1:1 winding ratio and a DI is 1:20 ratio or something. Open that Radial PASSIVE DI and you will find a full circuit board full of parts. Looks more like a crossover. But you can’t really see the components without de-soldering every connector.
You should really try this with a different DI with nothing but a Jensen transformer. I think you will find then, they are the same.
I can't tell the difference....
Honestly that's completely understandable. This whole DI box versus line isolator thing is very much people arguing over the last 5% of their guitar tone. Very subtle differences.
Radial makes a line isolator as well
Yeah... I couldn't really figure out what was going on with the ones Radial offers. They all seem to be XLR input 1/4" output (backwards from what I want), or they use RCA cables, or some other weird thing. A lot of them look like they convert balanced signals to * unbalanced *, which is like the exact opposite of helpful for this purpose.
It's possible I'm missing something but I did scour the Radial site pretty thoroughly a while ago and they didn't seem to make anything quite like this, just isolators for other niche pro audio tasks.
An iso box is nothing new, I’ve been using a Cable Factory iso2 for years, very high quality.
Walrus is noisy .. returned right away..👎🏻
One logical explanation to why you may get different sound (lost highs): wrong input impedence matching.
See th-cam.com/video/N05OI9kepts/w-d-xo.html @ 8:15