ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.พ. 2025
- My friends don't want to talk to me now that I spent the last few months making this. :(
Here's the video I was mocking.
Like I wrote I do agree with it, it was just too easy to show the possible worst scout jump with the context of what he was saying.
Check it out, I took it a bit out of context.
• Video
My Socials-
I still have none lol
Music (in order of appearance) -
Lemon Demon - Sweet Bod
lemondemon.ban...
c418 - click
c418.bandcamp....
Joakim Karud - Longing
• Longing
Old RuneScape OST - In the Clink
• Old RuneScape Soundtra...
Efence - Cassette
• Efence - Cassette [Ret...
Super Mario World Game Over LoFi Hip Hop Remix
• Super Mario World Game...
Gameplay and other stuff I totally stole-
Elden ring double jump death - Count Mute
Titanfall 2 - Frothy
Overwatch - DESU
Spongebob Rehydrated - fhdgw
(^good game btw^)
Super Mario 64 - New Frame Plus
Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare - Drift0r
Risk of Rain 1 hopoo feather stack - Erekai
How's life been?
The line, "for games set in the current age, attempting to be fully realistic, maybe don't add a double jump" implies that our ancestors might have been able to double jump and I fear evolution has stolen that from us
All Brazilians can double jump even the weakest ones
The only games attempting to be fully realistic are simulators. Which ones let you double jump?
@@GeorgeWashingtonToad Jetstream Sam
@@markopopovic9874 yes exactly
Indeed, the Double Jump played a great role in the battle of Stirling Bridge, where William Wallace would swim under where the English archers were crossing, Double Jump out of the water, and knock them off with his Neutral B, before ledgegrabbing and dropping down to avoid English counterattacks. In this way, many English archers were ganked before they could noscope the Scots on the other side.
Man, and here I am wondering where the hell the “anti-double-jump” camp suddenly and randomly spawned from. Never of that kind of opinion, jeez.
Same, I'm just sitting here trying to figure out who wants to remove such a basic yet useful game dev tool
Nitro rad had that opinion for years which is the same level as his anti-non tank movement in fixed camera games.
It's not a thing, video essay TH-camrs just love doing this thing where they prop up a cardboard cutout of an opponent just so they can talk about something and make it seem "controversial."
I also had no idea there was anyone who didnt like double jumping. Its just fun.
When people started analyzing platformers more critically and realizing the vast majority of the just use double jumping as a crutch for bad gameplay.
One of the highest sins in game design:
Making a staircase where each step is just barely high enough that you're required to do a double jump.
Facts.
Making a stair case where you have to jump at all
@@randomosity4501 making a staircase
@@worthyedge9307 Making
@@FiroNebule existing
If scout didn't have double jump, he would be having a harder time fighting deadlier classes while avoiding their attacks.
I love how often TF2 is brought up for examples on how the careful implementation of an easy to add game mechanic completely changes the worth and satisfaction of it being present. Shotguns, double jumps, even loadouts.
I feel like Rolve (a dying game development group that recreates Valve games for roblox) did a pretty good job with movement in arsenal. They did remove a good movement option recently though, and in its place left a massive bug (edge sliding)
What TF2 ?
Nah, I know you mean Team Fortress 2 but Titanfall 2 also implemented the double jump well.
ROLVe is funny
@@palmberry5576 what movement thing
Team fortresss 2: the scout is genuinly one of the best video game double jumps. It adds so many options for survival and traversal. But used carelessly it will make your movement predictable
Just because something CAN be added lazily as filler, doesn't mean it always is. Far too many people criticize games, or anything for that matter, based on generalization, or stereotypes. I've played games whether the double jump felt useless, boring, or unnecessary, but I've also played games where it is a fun, helpful addition.
Exactly.
It was very jarring for me to go from the perfection of movement in Titanfall to the similar wallrunning and double jumping of BO3 I played with a friend. It was very clear which had built the game around it, and which had seen the success of the other partway through development
@@joejoemyo Well said.
My name
Literally anything can be added poorly. It’s a dumb argument.
Anyone who says you're "copying funke" by using animation to get your point across has the equivalent IQ of a potted plant. Amazing video, great job. Super high effort stuff just to win an argument with your friends. Kudos!
I mean it's not wrong doe, but who cares? Technically speaking nothing is original.
And as the author of the video said, what's important is *implementation*
He implemented FUNKe esque style of videos pretty smoothly, it feels nice, it feels organic. So yeah, I'ma watch more of his videos since FUNKe upload schedule is looong
.
Imagine spending hours learning a skill only for some pinhead to come out of the woods screaming "someone more popular than you already has that skill!"
Funke makes good content and this is good content as well. Even if it is copying it’s still good and obviously made with care so I don’t see why people are even complaining. I doubt funke would even see this as copying.
i'd welcome two funkes
I remember I had a friend the legitimately tried to argue there shouldn't be any jumping in games that aren't exclusively platformers because "people don't just jump all the time especially with heavy gear". I'm genuinely baffled people don't like jumping or double jumping in the name of realism in a freakin video game.
they added an actually decent jump to elden ring and every one loves it, i cant think of a single game where jumping feels tacked on or takes away from gameplay
Your friend was a weirdo idiot who demands realism in every game he plays. I guess he thinks it's bullshit how characters carry items/weapons without a visible backpack, and don't have animations showing you taking them out every time you switch in a menu.
Seems like the kind of guy to have a legitimate issue with chief flipping a vehicle in halo
the ARMA series doesn't have jumping. Only a "vault" animation to get over fences.
Let your friend play that if he's into soldiers realistically lugging around heavy gear.
Yeah there’s a point where disliking modern “realistic” game mechanics gets really weird
Like there’s not liking ADS, then not liking sprint, then not liking sliding, then not liking mantling, then not liking being able to jump, then not liking being able to look up and down
@@Cheesepuff8 i cant think of a single game without ads that wouldn't be better with it, can you imagine l4d with ads?
I personally really liked the touch of the 3D animated bits, myself being a big fan of FUNKe's work. Good vibeo my brother in Christ.
Double jump needs to be added on a way that feels fluid, rather than forced. Now weapon jumping (grenade acceleration, rocket jumping, FAN, ect.) Is alot of fun
Sometimes, the glitch is the best way to move around ;)
On that note, imo the best way to keep the single jump relevant is to make it more fluid and streamlined than the double jump. And balancing the 2 gives a ton of depth and fun options for game design.
etc*
@@jeremias-serus ok
Check out a game called “pandemic express: Zombie escape”. The games kinda buggy, the amount of players is incredibly low, but the movement is so god damn incredible. It’s completely based around gun-jumping
i'd watch any petty rage baby video with editing this good!
@@WiseMysticalTree4 shut the duck up
Double jumps are also EXTREMELY good to have in metroidvanias like Hollow Knight, for obvious reasons. Also, single jumps can be made useful by making some parts of the rooms have something like spikes at the ceiling, which can be made very low.
And also this video has Swordigo here, didn't know people even knew about it
Metroid games are another great example with space jump aka infinite double jumps however you need to time it right Every time to do it making you feel like you are making well timed decisions
Swordigo is a hidden gem
@@axltheriolu8791 Yeah! I was talking to someone about this while watching this. The suggested "solution" of extending the jump can be disproved by looking at Metroid games and the existence of the space jump vs bomb hovering. Both are tightly timed maneuvers that can be used to gain height or distance but there are so many areas in the games that are only accessible with the space jump because of the inherent gain in air control over the bomb hover. If I remember correctly, the bomb hover does allow some control in the air with precise side-to-side movements, but double jumps like the spin jump/space jump/screw attack give you the chance to reset your sideways momentum and possible get to platforms that could be overhanging the edge of your current ground.
without mentioning it makes people be creative, it allows you to not only travel much faster but also you can reach new areas, but also affects the combat, in some cases double jumping simply makes you vulnerable, or the very opposite, you take distance from various enemy attacks
Yeah, Metroidvania like Metroid lol.
My favourite thing about double jump is how it gives more depth to the movement in conjunction with Air Control.
Do you have low AC, high commitment jump? Now you can change your momentum midway
Do you have high AC? Now you have even more control over your position in space
Or you can mix it, also addressing the potential issue of making single jump obsolete:
High AC, low commitment, low height first jump for navigation + low AC, big height double jump for reaching places and dodging.
Low AC, big height first jump for getting momentum + high AC double jump for correction.
Add to this questions of:
Do your double jump override momentum, add to it or anything in between?
How high do you jump the first and second time?
Do your second jump use a resource?
What about level design?
Basically, like many core mechanics, it can generate A LOT of depth.
(And now I want to start making another platformer that I never finish)
Well said!
As a game developer here working on a metroidvania I can say making a double jump is anything but lazy because once you add it into your game you need to make sure the double jump doesent break your game progression at all which is kind of hard when you have to check over 8 different areas not to mention giving the double jump functionality and usefulness
Double jump is probably one of the quintessential unlocks on metroidvanias. It allows you to hide paths and secrets in plain sight early in the game
@@john_john_john I totally agree in fact in the lead up to the double jump there’s a plat forming part which completely changes once you get the double jump which forces you to tackle the platform if section differently with your double jump and simultaneously works as a tutorial on how to use it
What is the name of the game
@@sarpyagzsonsaat2293 Moon, thats the name of the game, its not out yet though, in fact, its in very very early development still so but if you want to follow along Ive started creating dev logs for the game on my YT, however my publishing schedule is all over the place but still feel free to go check it out
What about walljumping like in super metroid or megaman x
First video I've seen from this channel but DANG the editing in this is phenomenal, also really loving the TF2 references
you have too little likes to be verified
Eh, his cartoon news is cookie cutter anyway.
And yeah it is weird.
Two examples of a double jump implemented well (in my opinion) are the Propeller Mushroom and Super Acorn from the New Super Mario Bros. series. I like these because while they both give you a double jump, your horizontal speed after said jump is reduced so even when you have these power-ups, there is a meaningful choice to make; not only to decide if you should double jump, but when you should double jump to make the most out of the environment. The Propeller Mushroom's double jump gives you additional height compared to the Super Acorn's double jump, but the latter item also gives you a glide so even in the end game of NSMBU, there is a meaningful choice to make between the two double jump items.
Honestly one of the most interesting tools the NSMB series as a whole did was give you the mid-air spin. It also does a lot for jump precision and distance without providing upward momentum, and is a really interesting tool I feel a lot of games could try implementing if they don't wanna use the Dounle Jump.
Oh you're so right, the 2D Super Mario games never even crossed my mind when making this video but I've played almost all of them and there's a lot of vertical stuff in there. Good one.
@@pogowitwiz that weak ahh air stall
try getting all of the star coins in NSMBW world 7 without the propeller mushroom, you will have a bullet in your head by the first hour
Agree, ballista boosting in both doom 2016 and eternal is addicting in ways I cannot explain. The best I've got is flying fast through air make brain feel good.
The most convincing anti-double jump argument I've heard (and one which you've provided also) is that it can trivialize platforming sections, making them mundane and uninteresting. If you have one straight path and you are required to traverse it in a fixed way, double jump can become a direct replacement of a singular jump. I can see why people would have negative connotations regarding the implementation of this mechanic as I am sure many mediocre platforming games do so without a second thought. I agree that the 'laziness' argument is crap, though.
Yeah you're right it can really start to make the gameplay feel dull, which is why I mentioned that it's up to the surroundings to make the double jump feel warranted.
I also see the double jump used in games that don't want the platforming to be the main gameplay focus or don't want it to be very difficult (obviously it still can be in challenging platformers, just that it's a common way to make the platforming more beginner friendly, it's all up to how it's been added).
Well that’s only if poorly implemented
@@memevondank1197 having a second jump gives an innate moment of respite, with the only examples I can think of that escape this are extremely momentum heavy jumps like in Titanfall or Clustertruck. Those two games are two of the only ones I can think of that don’t allow you to completely cancel or redirect your momentum, which is what lets you course correct and thus remove tension,
And THATS why hollow knight exists!
@@justarandomguy983 it would be awesome if hollow knight didn't though
"Its not realistic"
*Insert soldier rocketjumping here*
double jumps and airdashes are extremely important in fighting games. if a character doesnt have any air movement option, and they jump, you know exactly where they are going to land, allowing you to plan for that, but if a character has a double jump or airdash, the situation changes completely. you no longer can plan on where the enemy is going to land and you have to keep track of several of your antiair moves and react to their air movement.
the situation also changes when the character has an airdash instead of a double jump. in that case, antiair attacks with more horizontal range than vertical are more useful because the character will move at you from further with an airdash.
then there is guilty gear strive's millia. she has access to two air actions, which can be either a double jump or airdash, then she has kapel which kinda works like another airdash but leaves a hitbox behind her, then there's turbofall, which as you might've guessed from the name, makes her come to the ground extremely quickly in a diagonal direction, allowing her to land on the other side of the enemy, AND there's also bad moon which has a similar trajectory to turbo fall, but its actually an attack, which can be used extremely low to the ground after a jump that it becomes an instant overhead (attack that you have to block standing). she might have different options in older games, but that's what i know of millia from guilty gear strive
movement in fighting games in general is a very interesting topic, there's many ways of doing it, with aggresive air movement options, or none at all, different flavors of grounded dashes, 8 was airdashes, command dashes, or movement in 3d games which every game also does differently. movement in fighting games is incredibly deep
wise words from a wise man
i forgot to mention. there's a whole ass half hour long essay on the topic of jumping th-cam.com/video/R1jFEMxGPzk/w-d-xo.html
Reminds me of Potemkin, the grappler who _doesn't_ have an air action in a game where everyone else does. At least in some iterations iirc.
honestly i always find it wild that basic air control is _such_ a rarity in fighting games that it's legitimately one of the main differences between standard ones and the platform fighter subgenre
like i thought i vaguely remembered hisou with its double airdash and outright _flight_ maybe having some sort of rudimentary way to alter your trajectory mid-jump, but after booting it up for the first time in a loooooong while ... nope. still stuck with the same static jump arcs unless you commit an airdash or throw out an aerial that overrides your momentum ( which, admittedly, is not exactly rare in that game )
@@Low_commotion Pot generally has a double jump but no air dash. Tager in BB however has neither.
Imagine being the guy who just hates double jumps as a whole. I imagine all the fun gets sucked out of the room when they enter.
I agree with all of this. ive been trying to create even a single game and i cant (mostly because im stupid) but also because game development is hard.
Game development is not that easy, most people dont even think about it. Yet youve been TRYING to make a game, youre already above many people cuz you tried, dont call yourself stupid cuz you couldnt do it, many people didnt even try.
game dev its hard, besides knowing c/c++ (aka one of the hardests languages) u need good foundation on maths and physics, besides design (artistic side) and probs some philosophy (story) in the end to get paid awfully, or experience severe crunch, props to game devs
@@PurpleBroadcast Thank you :)
its easy in roblox studio
say it louder for the ppl in the back bro im right there with ya
The hate for double jumps (especially the "double jumps devalue single jumps" angle) seems very silly to me, because I have a ton of interest in fighting games. Your options on the ground are significantly different from your air options, so strictly always increasing your hangtime every time might end up screwing you over. Additionally, landing an aerial attack on a grounded opponent is often a character's most rewarding option, so most fighting games make being airborne a very vulnerable position, so predictable double jumping both throws away your option to dodge AND gives them extra time to get into position to smack you. Saving the ability to redirect can save your life.
On top of all that, some fighting games with double jumps allow you to cancel air attacks into a double jump. This means if you can make somebody block an aerial attack, you can force them to guess if you're going to land and hit them low, or extend your air time and hit them high, which can be hard to deal with. And you only get that opportunity if you save your double jump until right before you land; if you need to burn the double early to get over something because you timed your single jump wrong, you don't get the stronger jump-in mix.
One of my primary genres has trained me to see air space as a position of vulnerability, and to see the use of a double jump as a semi-limited resource that can be saved or burned to accomplish different goals. The idea of people declaring double jumps to be "lazy and boring" categorically is completely wild to me. Just a perspective thing, I guess.
I'm glad you're bringing fighting game into this discussion, because anti air has always been a key point for every fighting games, even for ground based game (we don't talk about Footsie for obvious reason). Being able to double jump completely change the way people approaching and anti air, and any character that can alter their air momentum at will are always hard to deal with.
To add onto this, a lot of games with double jumps (GG, BB, DBFZ) will also have an airdash, and you generally can't use both in one jump. This means there is often a choice to be made regarding which you want to use. For example you could use your double jump to gain extra height, but is it worth trading the burst movement of an air dash. Combine that with techniques like IAD (instant air dash), and airdashimg back tomorrow your movement trickier and there is real choices to be made. It also helps that airdashes are generally more vulnerable than a double jump, but often a double jump will leave you in a slightly worse position after compared to an airdash.
This can often be muddied by character specific movement options obviously, but it almost makes you think about your air actions like a resource which can give massive reward if used carefully but is easy to waste and you can be massively punished if you misuse it.
in platformers even, it can be very useful, you can fall under an obstacle and then jump up, you can use it to dodge an attack mid air. If it animation cancels you can use it for complex tech. You can use it to correct a poorly aimed jump.
This is incredible video! The editing is incredible and extremely fleshed out; definitely wasn't expecting this in my recommendation.
Btw, the melee game at 5:01 is from Smash Summit 11, Grand Finals: Mang0 vs Zain
Did you get your pizza
Thank you so much! I'm an aspiring game designer and wanted to have a double jump in my game, but I didn't know if it was a good idea due to how it's socially accepted, but at the end of the day it's how the game is designed around it, not about it itself.
Thanks for mentioning Bum Bum’s Twinkie Adventure on the PS3. Everyone always forgets Bum Bum’s Double Twinkie gets you mad air.
I can’t help but notice a lot of people cherry picking “problems” are just trying to justify or even convince others to back them in a crusade over a game itself. Some of these people likely hit the bottom of a list after losing the battle on all others above it’s place on the list.
Or they are just mad that they lack skill with the movement or can’t combat someone with the movement.
Hey um, just making sure… are you not strawmaning for tf2 sniper? Because of you were well I have a few spare hours and an entire game to point to for a better implemented sniper to crumble any defense (that isn’t LAH LAH LAH I CANT HEAR YOU) you have for him
@@GoodlyData86596 (unsure if your joking) No I’m actually making a general statement for all games, not just tf2. The comment comes from a place of both being tired of seeing the writing on the wall and have just noticed it through out the years from all types of people. (Just felt like calling the purple carpet purple for a moment that’s all) But hope you have a good one.
@@bestratchetandclank you too, yes I was joking about how often I actually have to rip sniper (more specifically his awful balancing) a new one and how I might of done it so much that people are actively trying to avoid it while still voicing their (baised, mis/uninformed, set-in-their-ways) opinions by trying to be subtle (yea in my dreams, what’s next, I’m gonna tell myself I started the crusade against tf2 snipers god awful balanc- oh…)
i feel that people who cherry picking these kind of problem just want to sound smart
i like your weird "low framerate character with high framerate background" animation style. its kind of like the Spiderman in the Spiderverse movie and FUNKe's style.
I never knew that there were some people against double jumps or mid air jumps, it seems so harmless and small yet cool at the same time. As someone who loves movement, giving extra movement in game or character is always a joy, you can look at a map and think many different ways to traverse them. I remember when I was a kid, watching tf2 for the first time and catching the glimpse of rocket jumping, people flying around with their meme spoon, my jaws dropped and I wanted to be the next 20000# soldier main in the game. Double jump is simple yet can give the same feeling of learning a new mechanic to explore the world however you like it, gliding, dashing, wall jumping and many other simpler movement mechanics achieve so much by doing so little if implemented right, and that implementation is what makes a double special for their specific game, scouts double jump is special like doom guy double jump, but for different reasons and that’s what I like about any good movement mechanics
honestly they just mad that they can never be good at movement. double jump never hurts anybody and I wish for a resurgence of movement shooters multiplayer fps's
anyone whos played hollow knight knows how absolutely gamechanging it is to unlock another jump. the first time i sprouted wings it was hype af
The whole point of the double jump for Scout is so he has a larger advantage over other classes, due to his low health and mediocre medium to long range. It helps balance his character. I don’t get why people use him as an example that the double jump is bad
Double jump seems like a mechanic that exists, i dont think this is a thing to complain about, calling it a lazy mechanic is like saying that adding movement is a lazy thing, a mechanic doesnt need to be super complicated to have impact
good job you showed that you can watch a video and absorb its information
@@itsthem5699 unironically, that seems like its a hard thing to do for most internet users
@@Naggfruit Ngl I had read comments on TH-cam shorts and seen people got angry... cause they didn't bother to finish a 60 second video
@@cloudynguyen6527 yt shorts is where all the idiots are quarantined, so it makes sense
This goes without saying, because everyone and their grandma knows this, but a hat in time implements movement VERY well. Dashes, dash rolls, jump dashing, dash cancels, and especially the way the double jump can be incorporated into these mechanics. It all comes together to create one of the greatest movement systems I've ever seen in a 3D platformer.
(Bonks off walls)
My personal favourite movement options are bunnyhopping and accelerated backhopping from source engine games.
(bhopping was patched out which in turn created ABH so you can only bhop in older versions of source)
While not necessarily vertical movement options (or intended ones), the amount of speed you can gain from those tricks are ludicrous and are really fun to do once you get the hang of it.
Plus ABH and bhopping to a much lesser extent) allows you to soar into high the air if you hit a ramped surface, plus your horizontal speed gets preserved as long as the ramp isn't to steep, and as long as you can find a steep slope to land on (because of how source handles slopes and handles fall damage by velocity), you can fly through entire maps in record time like the coast maps of half-life 2. (AKA the maps where you have the buggy)
Anyway, the techniques are fun, you go fast, and you can effectively fly.
I remember Bhopping in CS:S and also have memories of hearing about backhopping in HL2 and trying on highway 17 to get it to work for a while before flying away up a cliff haha.
if you like bunnyhopping you should try out gmod deathrun it gets insane how many mindgames it opens up between a good runner and a good death. #1 deathrun east is my server of preference
If you've played Get To The Orange Door, it has a double jump, but if you dash afterward, you get an additional jump. The sense of momentum is very enticing!
You can still bhop, it just requires commands to do it
@@xolotltolox Might I ask what command(s) you're talking about?
5:20 "Being able to turn on a dime"
My brother in christ, that is a QUARTER!
An important quality of the double jump as a vertical movement mechanic is that it lets you *recover* from a bad jump. This is something that a longer single jump _cannot_ give you without a dramatic increase in air control, at which point you've completely changed how jumping feels (and even then, you probably can't get the same degree of "oh fuck take it back" that you'd get from a double-jump).
Yup, double jumps aren't just about distance, they're about hangtime. I can only think of a handful of 3d platformers that both feel good to play and don't have some sort of hangtime tool.
Lining up jumps in 3d space using a keyboard or controller is hard, making the jumps floatier can help but it often makes the game feel bad. Double jumps or some other mid-air correction tool/momentum killer (Mario Galaxy's spins, the aerial attacks and dodges in any number of spectacle fighters, etc.) lets you keep the physics feeling snappy without making platforming frustrating.
My only contention with double jumps and mobility tools in general is that, in games where the enemies are meant to be the main threat, excessive mobility means the only enemies that can threaten the player are so fast that the death feels cheap. If the game can only threaten you with things you can't react to then mobility has probably gone too far.
The amount of times I've jumped off a cliff in Elden Ring only to be saved because Torrent can double jump at ANY angle on a DIME to save me lmao
You made a great case for this mechanic existing. I'm so glad I got recommended, the editing and research were both great, and you wasted no time getting to the point. Time to see what else you've made :)
I love all the little quirks of your editing and animation style. They give every little detail so much flair!
I just started playing Ultrakill and it is a great example of having tons of vertical movement without a double jump: Wall jumping, slam jumping, dash jumping, boosting, coined boosting. The list goes on, would be great to see it featured in a video sometime!
I haven't played Ultrakill but i know it's platsforming uses my absolute favoruite mechanic for any game to have: Inertia.
The only game (that i've played) i don't quite like it's implementation is Terraria because it doesn't allow you to just keep adding to it until your basically flying, it makes attacks hard to dodge sometimes, and it doesn't even allow dash jumps
I'm 10 seconds in and your Low Framerate animation just instantly sticks out from everything else.
Great job!
1:36 Good lord! Entire games take no moons at all, what is this world where you have to bring the moon down to Earth and then dissolve it to achieve the power required to run the program compiler.
idk how i've only just found your channel your content is really good
Yes, I think we're witnessing the growth of a very quality channel.
Dude, your editing and creative style is AWESOME! Great video.
Boggles my mind that like a videogame staple is being regarded as a bad game design now, like what's next? Is having menu and text on the screen bad game design?
Or maybe next they'll say the game having ability to let characters walk, dash or run is bad game design.
Next it'll be customizable controls
I get people wanting something new and wanting to explore new concepts. (I do so all the time.) I also get that some long-standing gameplay mechanics may be unintuitive or undercooked.
But to disregard and disrespect the tried and true is generally a terrible idea to put it mildly.
One of my favorite implementations of the double jump is in Metroid, especially in Metroid Dread, it starts as a single, then a double, then an infinite jump, and finally it turns into a flying ball of energy that kills almost anything that isn’t a boss instantly. Not to mention these abilities used in tandem with other abilities make for a very fluid exploration and combat system.
i hate that the double jump is timed tho. like there’s a way you can press the jump button while in the air but fail to double jump. its frustrating. i love the double jump in games i didn’t even know this was a take people bad. but specifically with metroid dread it’s the most frustrating double jump i’ve ever experienced
I love the FunKe style editing. Awesome video.
implementation is simply the greatest feat a game designer must overcome, you can have as many holes or obstacles as you want however if there is no varation or perhaps poor tuning like say a too long or short wall when wall running is available then yes these mechanics can vary well turn out terribly or just remove the purpose of other mechanics as a whole.
wonderful vid though for bringing up how while the double jump is "saturated" just because it's used a lot or is popular doesn't make every iteration of it not worthwhile and you addressed reasons or ways double jump can be used clumsily in design.
6:04 To be fair, science fiction technology and magick can explain literally anything if you don’t set ground rules for them.
I would unironically love a 6 hour video that went over every implementation of the double jump lol
i would literally have a bag of popcorn watching it too
I cannot believe you put a clip of swordigo (at 3:06), I love that game
Me too dude
It was one of the first games I played on mobile and was like”man i wish there were more short cheap looking games that were this fun.
when i was little this was THE. SHIT.
Just justify a character's ability to double jump by saying they're Brazilian.
We all know Brazilians are built different
Or just make them a short person, they can easily double jump
As much as i want to delude myself into believing Scout from TF2 is brazillian, i unfortunately have read the comics and can simply headcanon that one of his ancestors is a wanted brazillian man.
@@LucasMiddleNameandLastname22 Spy, who is canonically Scout's dad, is obviously a brazilian man disguised as a frenchie.
@@HeirofDacia *...genius.*
I love 2D platformers, and I make fun of the double-jump as a joke. Notably I think it's important to the conversation that a Double Jump is often a *solution* to Air Control and Jump Safety, as exploring the other solutions like Air Strafing and being able to push a direction and somehow move in that direction while mid-air shows that they're actually *just as unrealistic* in a lot of the same ways as Double Jumps. Stuff like "holding the jump button for the entirety of the jump makes you jump higher" is a feature that's almost just as common (if not more so) and is just as unrealistic as it puts the emphasis on effort done during the jump as opposed to prior. Being able to Hold to gain altitude is also frequently something you start with, which is why I think it's not considered as "lazy" nearly as often.
Ironically I find I make fun of the Double Jump because it's often *not* something you start with. It's specifically given to you later because it's a simple way for a platformer to make the player feel more in control with the platforming. People might dislike getting the "same" reward in every game for playing over time, but the interplay between other mobility mechanics like the air-dash and the more ubiquitous Double Jump is really where games make their impact. The 2D Metroid games' "Space Jump" is a way to get incredible mobility (often from the start) while requiring a lot of skill with the right environment, and it makes a significantly lower impact on the mechanical tropes as a result.
Free air control can also break some games
Like im making a game that plays a lot like the classic castlrvania games
Having the ability to move during a jump would break the enemy patters and the positioning because air attacks are better since you move while you attack
So to avoid that i just have fixed jump arcs
did you mean wall jump? space jump is literal flight and is usually lategame
@@xanious3759 You are correct. I seem to think of it as different than a normal wall jump because the "parkour style" wall jump more recently typically has the wall impact regardless of your input while Metroid only shows your character pushing off as a result of your inputs. Metroid's version really focuses on player mastery allowing for skill demonstration, which is fitting.
Damn I didn't know there were double jump haters that's kind of cursed ngl
it's so impressive the how much your content improved in so little time, keep it up man!
Thank you :}
funke is a good youtuber with great visual style. glad people make it their own.
A double jump feels like something all living things should be able to do
Bro I love double jumps. It is good for casual adventure/platformer games where the point isn’t necessarily to be skilled but to engage with the world and story.
didn't even noticed the stop motion sfm bits was kinda like funke's style until you mentioned it at the end. also do use those more I enjoyed those bits lol
In regards of game design, I actually really enjoy the double jump mechanic! It's classy, and almost nostalgic. Not having it almost feels like the game is missing something...
It almost feels like double jump pays homage to it's past and legacy.
Now I think the "grappling hook" that we see in more in more video games now is much more deserving of these criticisms rather than double jump, but even the grappling does differ from game to game just as the double jump does so eh..
I like game design regardless and anything can be a recipe for beauty.
What about grappling but also Double jumps?
Grappling hooks can be really fun or really terrible depending on the implication for me. It's one of my favorite mechanics ever, but games where it's just go directly to where you grappled or initiate a cutscenes to a new area are pretty terrible. Physics based grappling is the best but is also incredibly broken so your whole game ends up revolving around it, So it can be pretty hard to find a game that balances it in a way not to override everything else in the game.
This guy
@@LukieLuke5 steam world dig 2 has the best grappling hook
ive only ever enjoyed grappling hook mechanics in the just cause series
@@grizzlixx that one ain't bad at all! Titanfall 2 is my favorite
I'll tell you what IS a lazy mechanic, a lazy essay mechanic: Messages in text that last mere frames. If you're going to say something, say it, or at least leave it on screen for enough time for a human to read it without having to go back, try to pause, then resort to using , and . to scrub to the message.
I love how you manage to incorporate ff2 into everything
I love this new style of your video, keep it up man :)
Thanks :)
Titanfall is the best example I can imagine. After learning all the movement tech, I have a lot of different ways to use a doublejump . Double jump can be a huge feature if it's implemented correctly . Titanfall and scout gameplay wouldn't be the same without adouble jump
Titanfall's double jump is such a good case study into double jumps not nullifying single jumps. Double jumps give you control, in every axis, which can be crucial to not slamming into a wall or missing a window, but it always takes away some of your speed. If you try to turn too soon, your speed gets rolled by lurch. And yet, things like fzzy strafing and tap strafing abuse such double jumps and take advantage of their alleged disadvantages to repurpose the mechanic.
On a side note shoutout cFEBs for being an oddly fun movement tech
@@quanked with a neutral double jump , you don't loose speed. But I get your point ^^
@@tamsao2604 well neutral double jumps and the rest of the non-lurch tech weren't intended, can't praise the game design for a tech where we have deliberately found a way around the game design
@@quanked people can still create a masterpiece without intend . Wouldn't you call smash melee a masterpiece , and most mechanics where not intentional. We shouldn't praise the developer , but it still makes it better:D
@@tamsao2604 I'm not saying lurchless tech is bad - I love all of Titanfall movement, just that Respawn's intended balance mechanic is a good case study
Those who say that it isn't realistic should realize what you and Gabe Newell said: "Realism≠Fun"
why is Patrick tryna talk to me about double jumping like bro go back to catching jellyfish or sum
the fact that i see a lot of people who hate double jumps that basically use it immediately after the first to just make a larger jump
extremely good editing, can't wait to see another video from you!
An interesting variation of the double jump is when it acts differently from your first jump. For example in some games it kills your forward momentum in exchange for a slight vertical boost in a way that makes timing it more important
I like how in Destiny all 3 classes have a different variation of the "double jump". Warlocks are more floaty, Hunters are more dashy and Titans double jump is more conventional. they depend a lot on momentum
Technically Hunter is the only one with a double jump. Titan has a jetpack, while Warlock has a float
@@LightCrib2 That's why they said they were "variations" of the double jump
in the celeste spring collab mod theres a map that adds a jump refill thing that allows you to jump midair, but you can stack them, like if you collect 3 without using any midair jumls then you can midair jump thrice in a row, so it's like a nother resource you have to manage, like dashes.
a great example of how a double jump affects movement is comparing the movement of ultrakill vs titanfall 2. both are movement shooters, but ultrakill doesn't have a double jump because it wouldn't add anything to the already abundant amount of movement options you have (jump, dash, dash-jump, slide, walljump, whiplash, slam storage, rocket ride) while titanfall 2 does have a double jump because that pairs extremely well with the wallrunning and sliding to let you close distances or get into cover very quickly. a double jump in ultrakill would be mostly useless and often break the flow of combat while in titanfall 2 it greatly enhances it.
Respect P-Bean. Another amazing video that delves into games, and how they are designed alongside well thought out arguments for both
A: the inclusion of double jumps into games
and
B: counterarguments for why they shouldn't be seen as a bad way to solve an easy problem
while also taking into account
C: the fact that sometimes double jumps shouldn't be in a game.
I find destiny 2's implementation of the double jump *on warlocks* to be very interesting. As, the direction you go is based on your current directional momentum in tandem with your directional influence.
For example, if you want to gain the max amount of height with a warlock jump, you would just double jump while standing still as fast as possible. If you're trying to go horizontal, you would sprint forward, jump and wait for the apex of the jump, then jump again. And not to mention, you could combine it with basic movement like Icarus dash or heat rises to go further. Then, you can get into some insanely advanced movement with an eager edge sword or worldline.
I really love Double Jumps in the context of a one time emergency "course corrector" in mid air until you land, or something to fake opponents out with in multiplayer.
the fact that your channel has less than 50k subscribers should be a crime. seriously, your videos are good quality stuff
I just know that it was Fromsoft fans who motivated this video...
Amazing video, it’s very apparent the amount of effort you put into research, editing, and sfm scenes. Keep up the good work!
I like the double jump in No Straight Roads
In NSR the jump keeps your momentum, but the double jump offers the opportunity to redirect all your momentum in another direction, and there's good reason to not double jump because of the game's emphasis on timing since enemies attack based on the music, hanging in the air too long can catch you off beat, and there's also a dash which lets you get plenty of horizontal movement, which then allows you to have a jump following it assuming you hadn't used it prior, the double jump also lets you jump mid air after you step off or are knocked into the air, offering recovery and mobility.
I love double jumps and hovers, having to worry if you will actually stick the landing every time you jump is NOT FUN, being able to string together a bunch of moves mid air to go long distances or try to stall something out (like a spiky platform turning normal) is fun and satisfying to do.
Also 3d platformers need a double jump, ledge grab, or something of the sort.
Like... a normal jump runs the risk of "oh come on I missed that jump?" Way more then a double jump
Spyro does not have double jump, but it has a big glide and hover at end(which is a very slight jump, but nowhere near as big as a double jump)
But the entire game is based around getting to a high enough point to glide to where you want to go. Without the level design his glide would be terrible.
@@doombybbr Exactly this!
Ayo when I first found this channel with the edits and SFM bits I was sure this channel atleast had 1 Mil+ subs and i gotta say this channel is criminally underrated because he makes very fine pieces of work.
Swordigo spoted my day has been made
One of my favourite 'double jump' systems is the one in destiny 2. Each class has their own unique vertical movement system such as a double jump or glide, and this can be even further customised in the subclass menu with 3-4 different varients of your classes vertical movement system.
Yeah the choice of what your double jump is was pretty cool
yup! and even more so each classes vertical movement can be further customised/improved via certain exotic gear (STOMP-335, lion rampant, wings of sacred dawn etc) as well as increasing the mobility stat.
I've seen some momentum-based platformers have the trade-off to double jumping be a significant loss of speed, which not only makes you consider times where single jumping is better because maintaining speed is important, but also dares you to find times where you double jump specifically for the speed loss.
That's really interesting actually, It's nice to see the double jump acting as more than just more height, I like how you can use the speed loss to your advantage too when you need to.
Yeah, that's good risk/reward balance. I guess that addresses the concern that double jumps would trivialize single jumps, bc it gives them different value propositions.
You know what i see a lot in these games?
Double jumps mapped to another button to hide it
Like in sonic advance 2 you jump the press up and R so your character will do a small "double jump"
@@valletas only off of springs and trick ramps, tho
it's also a more generalized trick mechanic, as r + any other directional input will have your character do a trick in that direction that completely overrides your current momentum yet lets you retain the high-speed boost state. it's really cool and has some really nice depth and i would _not_ really lump it with most double-jumps because it's so heavily gated and only one out of the four moves you can do out of it gains you height while mid-air
One of my favorite implementations of a double jump is in big tower tiny square. In that game you have to land on solid ground (not wall sliding or semi-solid platforms). The devs used this to their advantage in puzzles/extensive parkour stages where you have to use a double jump at the beginning but have no way to replenish it and you are forced to use wall sliding and single jumps untill you out of that section.
"Petty rage video"
Bruh, this video is so good, the editing is on point, and the humour is awesome and not overstepping it's boundaries
Terraria’s wings is kind of akin to a really high jump and for that game it works well, you can dodge attacks easier, it would be harder if you just got better and better clouds in bottles, like flappy bird
Double jumps work pretty well in modded minecraft usually. Because most are Baubles/Curios/Trinkets you have to choose between double jump items and other things that can go in the same slot.
In a fun little game called phantom forces on the very adult and mature game platform called roblox theres an unintended “double jump” mechanic commonly called the super jump. Basically, the game has a dolphin dive when you press x while running. Its fairly useless like its counter parts in cod, but where it shifts from meh to swag is when you sprint into a jump, then you dolphin dive while in the air giving you loads of vertical and forward momentum. What makes it better adsing in the air after the dive allows the character to land on their feet making it where you have unimpeded movement after a jump. This trick breaks the game wide open, see a ledge or window thats just out of reach? Boom super jump! Hear someone in a hallway? Jump scare them by super jumping around a corner! See a sniper looking at you? Guarantee safety by super jumping away to safety! Theres so many implications that it shifts the game from an boots on the ground bf or cod esc game to an almost full blown movement shooter. I thinks its an interesting mix between an air dash and double jump that i have never seen before, making it something thats really unique. Thank god its not gonna be patched and it makes the game way more fun and dynamic.
Haven't played PF is a long time but I'm glad to see you mention it, you're totally right about that being a really neat "mechanic" that makes PF special.
First time ever I'm hearing someone calls double jump something bad
Or even arguing about it in the first place
I guess I'm too old and I'm not an annoying zoomer that complains about everything because parents didn't raise them well at all
"Having opnions means your parents didnt raise you well"
Sound logic there
Double Jump is just fun, it's something we can't do
oh my god, it's the patrick
Thanks for this. I've been learning game dev for a while and keep getting hung up on design decisions like this. First project I abandoned because I thought the double jump was too basic, when I've never finished deving a game before. Your explanation on why it's fine gave me some confidence, hopefully it takes me somewhere.
I'm glad to hear that, video games are always building off of each other and there's no shame in reusing ideas, mechanics, etc. Best of luck.
Double jump is peak
It's fun to see stupid arguments from some people telling you "the double jump is lazy and not so original", but, they aren't thinking about it's just a simple mechanic like walk, as you said, the most important thing is how you implement the mechanic and i've always agree with that argument, if your game wasn't designed for a especific mechanic, think about if it's a good idea implement it and how if you did it.
Double jumps are great for mix ups and mind games in tf2
If i’m not playing as brazilian samurai i shouldn’t be able to double jump not realistic enough
Random thought: A double jump in a game but it hold you in place for a second allowing you to see and change direction while making you more vulnerable, I feel like Valorant or Dishonored did that but eh.
Funny you should mention Dishonored since I was going to add footage of it but decided against it, and it isn't exactly like how you described, I'd like to see that idea explored a bit.
While also having the standard double jump, the Ori sequel (specifically, it wasn't in the first game) also has something very close to what you mean.
This idea is fairly similar to the imps jump mechanic pvz gw2 as he can float in the air for a little bit after a jump
One game worth mentioning is Deep Rock Galactic - it did have a double jump at some point during development, but was cut for being "too overpowered" or something, I don't remember where I heard this.
That being said, the game does have hover boots (completely halts aerial movement for a few seconds), along with a whole host of other awesome movement systems.
I'd like to take a moment to discuss the stellar implementation of the double jump in the Mega Man Zero series.
In the Mega Man Zero games, you default to only a single jump. You typically have to obtain a chip or armor part that allows you to use the double jump, and it's entirely possible to beat the game without ever having it. However, the levels are designed in such a way that while you don't need the double jump to reach the end, having it allows you to do far more complex movements that with a little bit of skill and combined with the wall jump, allow you to clear the levels far faster and even bypass some hazards entirely.
It gives you a fantastic sense of progression in regards to both power and skill, and you end up feeling like a total badass. Especially when combined with the Recoil Rod in Zero 3. One of the hidden subtanks in that game actually requires you to launch yourself with the Recoil Rod, and then perform a double jump to get up to the platform where the subtank is hidden, and it feels incredible to figure this out and obtain it all on your own. Also, once you have the double jump, you can use it to skip across the surface of water, bypassing large portions of certain levels.
This kind of thing is all the proof anyone should need that implementation is everything. Any game mechanic, no matter how overused or original, can be implemented lazily/poorly or spectacularly. It's just a matter of how well the mechanic harmonizes with the rest of the game's design.
Nerd: double jump in lazy mechanic
Chad: jump jump
Great video - saw some of your earlier stuff regarding invisibility and bad controls and really enjoyed that, glad I could sort of rediscover this channel