Growing in Aquaponics Sand Beds - iAVs Style with Dual Root Zone / Wicking Bags
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.พ. 2023
- Hi Folks. In this video we have a closer look at Owen's sand based grow beds and also answer a number of questions like,
Where can you find suitable sand in SEQ?
How are the drains set up?
What grows better for Owen, sand or dual rootzone (DRZ)?
What taste better, sand or DRZ corn?
Can you grow Potatoes in sand?
Owen also answers a few questions about his purge tank set up used for harvesting the fish. 👍🐟🐟
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Hope you enjoy this look at Owens system.
Cheers all. 🐟 🌱🍅
Rob
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Great video Rob and Owen, great to see some experiments going on. Look forward to seeing your next get together.
👍🏻
Cheers Mark. 👍👍
Thankyou Rob and Owen - fascinating video!
Glad you enjoyed it. 😁
👍 Excellent demonstration.
Glad you liked it mate. 👍
I introduced 2 sand beds 3 months ago in my aquaphonic system and I'm making 4 more right now. I need to say with all the sun I have in Brazil I only turn on the sand beds at night because of the algees forming in the day time on top of the water. so the sand doesn't get filled with algees and the water keeps flowing. Cheers guys, you guys rock!
Sandponics is designed so that the algae should sit on the sand.
@@iAVs-Sandponics yes but in my experience it stops up the water flow. I see you haven't as much problems with algees as I had... everyone needs to do what works best for him just giving my 2 cents🤙
@@bjornlandia892 Algae is an integral part. It help the furrows retain their shape, it also helps to provide an even distribution of water, and it can filter far greater than sand alone - some have said down to microscopic filtration.
Algae will be present in the early stages but once plant growth takes over they will prevent the algae from getting sunlight, the algae will die out and it's nutrients will be available to the microbes, and then to the plants.
Irrigating at night only is absurd and goes against all the published and peer reviewed research that iAVs is based on.
Of course, it goes without saying you are free to do as you choose, I encourage you to experiment but my comment is here for other people reading this that may be confused.
I'm glad you enjoyed the video mate.
Awesome video always enjoy when you go to Owens. The black tumeric was cool and will look great in the sand bed!!!
It's been taking off since it was planted.
Beautiful info! Thank you
Nicely done all round
Thanks Mate. 👍
You just reminded me I should check in on messenger now we're back.
🙂 Hi Rob, you and Owen make a great video. It's worth watching all the way through for all the good tips. Very interesting and fun to watch 👍
Am glad you enjoyed it Rob. 👍👍
🙂👍 @@RobsAquaponics
The timer flood and drain style in this system looks like a simple way to go about it. I am doing a DWC system as the majority of the growing but I plan to run separate pumps to run into a media bed flood/drain portion for my fruiting plants. This was pretty eye opening for the possibility
Absolute gold info gents!
Thank you so much!!
Great humour too 👌🏻 👍🏻
We always have a laugh when Rob comes for a visit, gotta have fun while doing things or it becomes like work haha
Maybe we should have a few beers before filming next time to see what happens.... 🤔🤔😉
@@RobsAquaponics That would be awesome to see 🍻 🥳🥴
If I may, I'd love to buy you both a beer too, whenever I get to Aus.... one day (Scotland is home for me 🏴 ) ☺️
What a cracking guy, I could listen to him all day
TBH I can't stand the sound of my own voice haha.
Me neither 🤣🤣🤣
Cool, Video.. Just goona say thumbs up..
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
🤔
👍
Thanks for the video. Please keep us updated on the black Tumeric 😀
😯 THANKS ANGE!!
Let me know if I can help in any way.
Hope all's well with you & yours.
Great Video! Perfect! Nice Greetings from Austria
Thanks FAA.
Pretty cool.
Everyone should have a neighbour like this bloke
Agreed mate. 👍
That’s awsome Stuff good info to
Cheers mate. 👍
GRATITUDE 💥🐟💥
Legends!!!
Cheers Dom. 👍
wonderfull
Many thanks
Nice. I think the DRZ is unnecessary unless you are going to add nutrients to the soil, that's the whole point of DRZ. I've found the deficiencies with iAVs disappear in time. I like the idea and incorporating living soil into an iAVs system.
Those potatoes were sitting around the base, it must be a determinate variety. If he can find an indeterminate variety am sure the double or triple-deck method will work great. Great video, Rob. Good to see you...Cheers!
I'm thinking you're right, the seed potatoes were in the discount bin at a gardening store. The label looked like it had been re-stapled on. I'm gussing now it had the wrong label haha.
Thanks Mary.
Any sign of autumn down there or is it still blistering hot?
Hope all's well down your neck of the woods.
@@RobsAquaponics Nah, menopausal weather is still at it. I'm done with summer. Hurry up winter LOL
@@wildchook745 🤣🤣
Two of my favorite blokes! lol That's interesting what they say about potatoes and sand. My uncle has a tater farm with a few very sandy fields that require frequent irrigation. He said he gets some monsters if he pours the fertilizer and water to them. I wonder why that wouldn't translate to a grow bed system.
Next growing season, I should get a good crop with the right potato type and planted earlier.
@@owensfunhouse7582 I'm sure you'll get it dialed in and prove them wrong. Looking forward to the updates.
Might be time for Rob to come and film my iAVs setup - I'm about an hour away from Ipswich ;)
Whereabouts mate?
Nerang.....setting up a new system soon if you're interested - I'm a bot camera shy but would be great to see you check it out@@RobsAquaponics
You've just tripled my knowledge and eliminated my time and money on experimenting with these idea's. Love your channel. I'm working on configuring a more gravitational water flow minimizing on how many pumps I use. The sand idea was a serious perspective I was thinking about. I use to work on golf courses and the greens are sand based, was wondering ways to try it in this perspectives.
I'd recommend you look around the iAVs site for more info on sand selection DNA39. It has a few requirements that need to be followed for best results.
iavs.info/
@@RobsAquaponics , thanks for that info, it'll help! I have a nice understanding of soils, but nice to have a reference to bounce ideas off. Appreciate you and your videos.
I just added crawfish to the system, they live amongst the plants roots in the water trough that supplies water to the plants. They're really liking it.
We had a septic tank drainage field in North fl pretty sandy I'm just saying tomatoes were staked with latters
🤣🤣👍
Wow impressive. Is the purge tank connected to the system or is that a seperate one?
It’s completely separate.
I'm thinking to get the better flavor profile of the soil bags, what if you buried the bag half way in the sand so the roots didn't have to travel as far to get to the nutrients?
Hi Rob n Owen
Awesome guys, I’m excited to introduce a 3mx1.2 sand bed n a 1x1.1 IBC sand bed , I noticed the outlets of the sand beds are flush with the bottom, I can’t seem to get my head around it draining straight out ,
would the water get to all corners so to speak of the sand bed
Good work guys love it
The sand seems to act in a sponge like manner. I’ve dug down in all the corners and it has been wet. You can even see it wick upwards into the mounds.
Amazing Owen
Thanks for your reply
I’m sure we’ll meet one day
@@ianjames1641 I will also recommend a slope on the bottom, 20mm per metre to help the water drain efficiently and with no anaerobic zones
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Cheers all & have a top one. 🐟 🌱🍅
Rob
Only for the first 5 😥- I got "this code is not valid"
@@kiwizz NEWBIE is still valid for according to what I see in the backend 😉😉
@@kiwizz Sorry Mate. Just realised that the guide got disconnected from the code after someone else complained. It's all up & running properly now.
@@RobsAquaponics Cheers! Just managed to purchase now.
For the taste test @16:49, have a little experiment where you mix a bit of sand into the soil. What stands from logic, the taste comes from the soil not draining fast enough, the size comes from the sand draining quickly. So wouldn't it be like a golden mean if you mix the two a bit and have them still in the bags , getting size and taste?
Interesting thing is there is no difference between soil and soil ;) An iAVs is considered fully mature after about 12 months, at which point the sand, combined with light, air, water, microbes and organic matter is the very definition of soil. I would like to see a double blind test, and also some more tests in 6 months.
The soil doesn't get flooded in Owens beds, it receives moisture via the sand wick he has in the base of the pouches.
In a system as Steve from @Potent Ponics sets them up, the soil is watered separately with a given amount when required.
Hi Uncle Rob, Does the sandponic system still need the solid and bio filter system to be installed before the grow beds?
No.
So the pump on a timer in the RFS pumps out the fish poo, no drain valve?
No bottom drain valve on that one, I have one about half way up, on the odd occasion I brush it out, I drain it half way, brush it, then pump it all out to the sand beds.
Do you know of an equivalent to the Crommelin pond sealers that's available in the US? A quick internet search didn't turn up any sources for Crommelin here.
I don't sorry Jeff. Aquaculture or pond places may be a great place to start asking as they would have customers that would be interested in food safety I'd think.
Nice setup. I like the purge tank idea. I didn't notice off flavours with my trout but they say it is better to keep the trout in a salty purge tank for a day to enhance the flavour. Any chance dropping into the nation's capital?
B & I want to do a road trip next year after we settle on a new property. Would love to stop in & see folks like yourself & a few other south of the border. You're in the ACT aren't you?
@@RobsAquaponics Yes, I am in ACT.
@@RobsAquaponics Yep. Come over. Anytime
Can you keep worms or something in the sandbed to break down the waste further?
I've found a few living in there without me adding them, so I'm sure you can.
Just a thought on the Dual Root Zone, I really like this hybrid system idea but Owen may not be applying it as best as possible. I have been wanting to do living soil furrows on top of sandbeds. This would require occasional top dressing and top water, the living soil will need to stay moist for the microbes to function properly and would need to be fed with top dressings or compost teas. The fabric grow bags might be hurting that. Perhaps a 5 gallon bucket with fabric bottom could replace that similar to the potato. The living soil could replace the need for nutrient additions like potassium. Any thoughts on this?
I think it's worth a try mate. 👍 I would like to know how you get on if you want to let us know.
Some living soil in a furrow could help establish the proper microbiology a little quicker in a sandponics system. In my experience it takes about 90 days for the sand to really build up a good microbiology and then the plants explode. I think dual root could work with sandponics with the fabric bottomless bags used on top of cannabis living soil beds. Although it certainly not necessary because plants don't typically have any deficiencies in iavs systems.
In regards to potassium feeding your fish some plant based fish food raises levels because fish only digest around 30% of plant phosphates.
is this then going back to the sump like a normal bed ?
Dumb question: How does this aquaponic setup work during the winter/cold months? Do you have to shut down the setup until temperatures warm up? Thank you for the video - really informative. Best regards,
We don't have to worry about it here as we only have a few hours every winter where the temp dips below freezing.
Some folks in places that get snow will shut their systems down over winter & start back up in spring & use fast growing fish like trout or tilapia, depending on their climate.
I know a few folks that have their fish in the garage or basement where they can keep them warm & have the plants side outside. They will shut down the outside plant side over winter & grow a few plants under lights inside.
Those with the resources have made heated greenhouses so don't have to worry too much about winter at all.
Hope that helps some.
Nice the dualRoot system
Owen's done a great job.
Hey Rob, Owen, I have been looking into iAVs but I haven't seen anything on the water turnover/flow rate. I know its about 1 to 2 times the tank/system volume an hour for standard aquaponic systems is it the same for iAVs? as the beds are meant to fill for 15 to 30 minutes and then be left drained for about 90 minutes? and would a split flow setup work better?
Hi CH. iAVs don't run to the same turnover rate as an aquaponics media based system.
The iAVs site has all the recommended info for timing if that helps any,
iavs.info/
The main benefit to the sand beds that I see is that they look after the solids & some of the biofiltration requirements when integrated into an aquaponics system reducing some of the maintenance issues.
25% of the tank in each irrigation cycle, 8 cycles a day.
Hey Rob - Any way to aerate the chop/flip system without needing a dedicated air pump? Are there ways to use the water pump to somehow get extra oxygen into the water?
Look at an eductor, but need high pressure to get that going so you’re going to need a pump that’s sized for that. Look for a wide impeller
Cascade aerator on the output of the grow bed
@@flyingmonkey3822 I make a small one to test it out - not sure this is enough bubbles? th-cam.com/video/1zvpNqElVEo/w-d-xo.html
Water falling back in from the bed if it's a constant flood bed.
In the build video I show a "T" off from the pump that feeds back into the sump that aerates the water. You could let the water hit the surface or add a venturi on it if you're trying to cut down on noise.
The purge tank water... does it get reused? Does it cycle through the plants? (Use NEW water every time, since it's fish you will eat.)
It doesn't get pumped out to the beds as the salt level is too high.
I'm not sure what Owen does with it to tell you the truth. I'll add that question to the list for the next visit.
How does he mitigate the nutrient deficiencies? Can you add the nutrients directly to the plants or does it still get in with the fish?
The section of the video on nutrient issues the dosing system covers that Gwen. It starts at about 7:30 on the video.
Hope that helps
impressive. what's particile size of the sand, and the depth of the sand beds?
.3 to 1.2 is ideal, with no fines no silt or no clay and no carbonates, 30cm deep
@@iAVs-Sandponics is it between 0.3mm to 1.2mm, or what's the unit of measurement?
@@xyooj96 0.3 - 1.2mm is the particle size. That's 0.012 - 1/16" if that helps any.
The beds are about 12" deep
likw👍👍👍👍👍
Cheers mate. 😁😁👍👍🍻
Are you using chelated iron that causes your water to be dark?
That and a few addivitives I had used cause it,
Hi rob can I grow grass carp in aquaponics?
They should do fine from what I've seen. I sort of remember a thread on the Backyard Aquaponics forum about them being in a system.
How much it cost to set that system up? And how much to run it per month?
By the way...I like your wig system..which very natural.
Owens system is run off grid so cost him nothing. I think the power company actually pays him for what he feeds back into the grid.
Does anyone know what he built his beds out of? It almost looks like tarps and wood.
They are a commercial grow bed trough. One he bought new & the other Owen got from me. 👍
Been about 2 months, how's Owen's nutrient situation going?
I haven't checked in with him of late. Last we spoke he was scaling the system back a bit now most of his kids have flown the coup.
I wonder if just incorporating calcium carbonate into the sand would eliminate the need to add lime water with a doser. Lime water is fairly caustic and will probably react with some of the other supplements, potentially precipitating them out of solution. Not to mention if it's in the open air with a circulation pump moving the water around it will soon turn into calcium carbonate anyways.
I know high pH can affect on chelated elements but Owen has been running his system this way for yonks with no iron issues until he stopped adding it from what I understand. I'm not sure if the the cal hydroxide (Ca(OH)₂) can turn into cal carbonate (CaCO₃) unless some carbon was added into the mix. Even if it did, it would still buffer the the water & help to keep the pH from dropping. 👍
@@RobsAquaponics If you have a container of dissolved calcium hydroxide open to the air, the carbon dioxide from the air will continue to dissolve into the water and create carbonic acid and act as the carbon source to turn the hydroxide into a carbonate. With the active circulation, I'd guess that there would be no hydroxide left after a few days. So in the end he's probably mostly dosing a calcium carbonate slurry.
Does sand not leach salts into the system? I cant imagine the salinity is good for plants nor fresh water fish
No it's quartz sand it leaches nothing at all.
I have cyceld my sand beds for 2 weeks before I connected the sand beds to the rest of the system... Now everything is dooing great.
You don't use seaside sand, just riverside sand.
The sand I use is from fresh water inland rivers, the salt content is little to none.
Please detail your sand beds
I don't have any yet sorry. This video on Owen's system is the on;y sand bed content on this channel for the time being.
what is that fish in the blue pool
Barramundi / Asian Sea Bass
@@RobsAquaponics Thank you
maybe the pouch is too high and therefore harder for the corn roots to reach nutrients effectively compared to the sand?
The nutrient rich water wicks up to the soil + there's nutrients in the soil so they really should do better I would have though.
🥑🥥🍊🍉🍈
🐟🐠🐡🐋🐬🦈
Just as a note Rob, Murray Hallam was running some for about 3 year and the first 2 years went great, until the fish all started to die of silica poisoning. Didn't watch the video here yet so it may not be relevant to your system, but just wanted to throw it out there in case the water from the sand beds is circulating back to the fish.
It wasnt silica poisoning silica will precipitate out before its toxic. More than likely there system went anaerobic a common and enviable issue with sand beds
@@PotentPonics ah. I was just saying what he said in the class forums.
@@DanielMatulich What ppm were they claiming was toxic? Iv run very high silica levels with no issues. If you use too much your ph will go up too so how silica was the cause is a bit baffling to me i will have to ask Murray
@@PotentPonics it wasn't stated in detail. It was just in the class forums as an answer to why the iAVS course wasn't released.
@@DanielMatulich Well yea its not viable at all for commercial scale or anything outside of novelty setups that makes sense
I don't like sand. I used in in aquariums for a while and it tends to keep pollution, smells bad and it is really hard to clean sand substrate. Bacterias become grow on it and it became black smelly mess. It's surface area is f-ing ridicolously huge so there will be a lot of bacterias in there. And you cant just wash it because you'll loose lot of sand in process. It also have not so good aeration capabilities.
It's cheap tho, and if you leave somewhere in desert or near the coastline, you'll probably have unlimited supply to free sand, so you can just replace it with new one.
But still I would prefer more chunky substrate, because it just easier to work with it and that's enough reason for me.
Interesting I've never had a problem with sand substrate in my aquariums I actually find it easier to clean and keep clean than the gravel because detritus tends to sit on the top for my fish to knock into the water column where my filter can deal with it then I just clean the mechanical filtration with gravel it sinks in between the gaps and u have to use a gravel cleaner to remove it.
@@timmiller2252 did you notice how it's smells after cleaning? I'm washing my substrate in the sieve with water. Fast, not much effort required. Works perfectly with gravel, but impossible with sand. Also sometimes sand gets into filters and abrasively damaging it. IDK how it happens, my assumption is that fish just eat sand and poo near the filters. Anyway I found cleaning of gravel still much easier in general.
@@user-ut4vl8bw2k mine doesn't smell bad at all it's always super clean now u mention it though I do remember when I very first started using sand it used to trap stinky gas pockets. Now i have a ton of Malaysian trumpet snails living in my sand constantly moving it and my fish and turtles like to move it round constantly too. Yeah I've noticed the impellers don't last quite as long due to the sand wearing em out faster but I still get over 1 year from each one so I don't really mind. I have gravel in my smaller planted tank but all my 550L+ I go for sand as I find it easier
Different context, you had sand submerged in water all the time. This is sand with water that floods and the drains out on a cycle. So the sand has lots of time and oxygen to not go anaerobic.
@@indica_dogo868 yes, that's exactly what happens. it goes anaerobic turns bluishly-black and begins to smell like sewerage.