Lincoln Furious with Meade; Selects Grant
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2012
- After the battle of Gettysburg, Lincoln was quite disappointed in General Meade for not being more aggressive in pursuit of Lee. As a result, Lincoln turned to General U.S. Grant to take on the job of Lee-hunting.
Meade-"I'm satisfied to see Lee depart our soil."
Lincoln-"When will these Generals learn, it's ALL our soil!"
I don't know how many will make it to your comment, but I thank you for sharing it. There was a steep learning curve in the Civil War, and I'm not sure it couldn't be avoided.
Tellittothe Democrat snowflakeswhio are cryingthemselvesto sleepover losing Kennedy's seatonthe Supreme Court!Allthose seats belong the American people. Whoever gets to sit-in them are only borrowing public property!
Yes, the peoples'. Not Mitch McConnells. Refusing to even hear Obama's nominee should have had him removed.
@@cedricgist7614 Meade was reprimanded but not demoted; he kept the Army of the Potomac and instead Grant was elevated over him to top commander of the armed forces. The generals before Meade were not so lucky.
Lincoln also knew Grant was aggressive enough to rip the South apart and shorten the war, unlike more conservative generals who went battle by battle, Napoleon style.
@Lats Niebling Interesting analysis.
Grant was a far better tactician that people realize. Unfortunately, most historians take the view that he beat Lee because the Union had more men. While that was true, Grant was the first overall commander who had a vision on how to properly use them.
First, he was tenacious in pursuing Lee. If he couldn't make to it Richmond one way, he'd find another. Lee and his army had never faced a foe this tenacious.
Second, he had Sherman make the March to the Sea, which not only devestated the South's economy and supply line, but also would cut off Lee's escape to the south.
Finally, he had Sheridan ride through the Shenandoah Valley, which secured that area for the Union and cut off Lee from any forces the Confederates had remaining in the west.
All that coordination was something none of the previous generals had even considered or attempted.
Lee was talented tactician, but Grant used total war against the South and that tactic combine with suplies and men power broke down the Confederacy.
To put it simply if Lee had taken command of the Union Army at the start, the war would have been over in a year
Don't forget Sheridan's campaign in the Shenandoah Valley. They starved the South
@@Hagmire remember lee refused to command the union army in the beinig of 1861 lees first victor tho happened in 1862 at the seven days battle which was simlie to shiloh and lee defeated little mac acouple monhs later little mac would defeat lee at the battle of antietam or in the south they called it sharpsburg
@@arturogonzalez658 thats true as well lee lost jackson at chancellorsville i wonder what lee would have used him for if jackson didnt die at chancellorsville
Makes me appreciate Daniel Day Lewis’s performance even more.
Skull Vader Same here. Sam Waterston did an admirable job as well in Gore Vidal’s “Lincoln” (1988)
Not only was Abraham Lincoln assassinated, 'Lincoln' got ROBBED! That film should have won Best Picture that year.
Daniel day Lewis is a remarkable actor
That is Hal Holbrook as Lincoln.
WELL NAH SHIT PATRICK 😂😂😂 jk jk
Meade was regarded by Grant as a fine officer (he kept the command of the Army of the Potomac) but Grant was just like Ike in WWII - he had an overall strategic and politic view of the war, could earn the respect of his men, officers and politicians alike, and sorrounded himself with the best oficers he had to get to do the things needed done. That does count as being a great general.
Yep, Ike had generals like Patton and Bradley he could depend upon, although Patton was certainly difficult at times.
@@trwent o9
Grant also fought and won important battles such as Ft's Henry and Donelson and Vicksburg, so I do not agree with you, he was also a great field commander.
@@emintey I did not say Grant was not a great field commander as well. But as a Great Marshall (of sorts) he was even better.
What kind of men you put in charge of leading and commanding the subordinates is one of the greatest skills a leader can posess.
"Wants to know what kind of Whiskey you drink, so he can buy the other Generals the same kind", talk about a compliment, it doesn't get any better than that! Thanks for sharing. Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
Which is weird as I understood Grant drank Apple cider...
"I can't spare this man, he fights"
a quote in response to McLellan ordering Grants firing
@@icecoldpolitics8890 McClellan was the anti-Grant. An egomanic who thought wishful thinking won battles. If Grant had been in charge when that copy of Lee's orders was found prior to Antietam, the Army of Northern Virginia would most probably have been destroyed.
@@neilpemberton5523 not disagreeing he was indeed a poor general
@@icecoldpolitics8890 Indeed. It's pretty amusing that Grant in 61 went to see McClellan to ask for a commission and he didn't bother to even interview him! Even funnier that Grant's victories caused the totally undeserving Halleck to be promoted above McClellan in 62!
Neil Pemberton I feel like Halleck wasn’t the perfect guy for the job but McClellan was the absolute worst being so cautious that he would let the enemy reinforce while his over whelmingly stronger army sat there doing nothing.
"I can't spare that man, he fights!" A. Lincoln about Gen. US Grant.
Damn Abe... Think you need to consider cutting down to 5 packs a day.
LOL, thanks for the laugh man
pissedoffdude1 happy to serve sir
That's Hal holbrook he had a gravelly voice.
There were no cigarette "packs' in those old days. You rolled your own. 5 packs x 20 cigs = 100 cigs. D'ya think Lincoln rolled a hundo tobaccy refers a day? He had a country to run, man.
No I’m suggesting he cut down to that many....
The Army of the Potomac WAS exhausted.
Every one of its corps had engaged. All of its lead divisions were shot out. The artillery was just about out of ammunition until resupply came up and the infantry nearly so. Even the cavalry reported their horses as nearly played out and requiring rest.
And I say this as a historian who has read the unit returns that were reported to Meade.
I understand Lincoln's frustration with his generals in July '63. None of the parade of them had particularly distinguished themselves in two solid years of war. But in all fairness, this was a case of an officer accurately reporting the state of his forces to political masters who didn't want to hear it.
Meade could be stodgy, that's very true, but he didn't falsify reports or 'take the counsel of his fears' the way MacClellan did.
Also this is totally inaccurate in the mini series. Lincoln did not replace Meade with Grant. At the time, Grant became overall commander of all troops west of the Appalachian Mountains. He put his focus on Chattanooga and won that siege, after which he was summoned to DC to replace Henry Halleck is old boss of the western theater. He then had several orders go out, one to the army he just left in Chattanooga to drive to Atlanta, Nathan Banks army in Louisiana to drive Atlanta as well, he told Meade to drive to go south and attack Lee but only when Lee has not fortified otherwise to envelope his left flank, he also had the Army of the James to raid North Carolina under Butler, along with Siegel attacking the Shenandoah. Needless to say Siegel sucked as a general in that regard, and Banks was instead ordered to hit Texas, and well Butler had the slows and was unable to move to cut off Virginia from the rest of the South.
@@mdhofstee OTOH, Grant located his headquarters with the A o/t Potomac to apply a spur to Meade. While Meade wasn't as bad about it as Sykes, he was called 'Tardy George' for a reason. He always took too long to make decisions and, unlike Grant, wasn't willing to take the casualties necessary to secure victory.
None of that makes Grant a saint though. Grant made far more than his share of mistakes, as the entire Wilderness Campaign showed.
@@carlhicksjr8401 I still think back to a photograph of the Grant with the Army of the Potomac leadership. Grant is leaning against a tree while the rest of the generals are 25 feet away looking at maps and making decisions. I feel that picture makes it seem like Grant just told Meade, attack Lee and then Meade and his corp commanders decide how to do so. I also think some battles like Cold Harbor should have been avoided given the fortifications Lee's army built but then again it might have been one of the first times Meade and company came across trench lines of that strength. I think the Wilderness campaign was not a failure but rather a success. It put Lee on the defensive ended up taking out a few of his generals, and in the end put Lee in fortifications in Richmond and Vicksburg that deprived Lee his ability to maneuver which he was able to surprise previous Union Generals.
It doesn't matter if you're tired, if the mission requires you to keep pushing, you keep pushing.
I say this as a former infantryman who lost 1/3 of his already understrength platoon in a single night in Ramadi, back in 2007. We had been running nonstop for a week straight at that point, getting 3-4 hours of sleep a day if we were lucky. Our vehicles were shot up, we were low on men, the only thing we did have plenty of was ammunition and food- not that we had much time to consume the latter.
But if we stopped then, we would have lost everything we had accomplished. So the order came from higher to push on. And we pushed on. It fucking sucked. Our bodies were aching, our minds were exhausted, our emotions were a mess. But we did it, because we were ordered, and we understood it was necessary. And when haji saw us back in sector less than twelve hours after completing our previous mission, and this time establishing permanent outposts in the sector we were fighting to secure, the civilians saw that we weren't going to give up as previous units had, and they turned on al Queda. Some even turned in their own children.
Meade should have pushed forward, and his men should have gone. I understand it would not have been easy, but it was necessary.
@@able34bravo37 Firstly, my respects on your service. I did a combat tour in the Central America in the mid-80s. I won't say 'I know how you feel' because I wasn't at Ramadi, but I have smelled the smoke.
There is a factor in your assessment of Meade's decision on 04July63 that I want to bring to your attention, that of logistics.
The last time Meade's Army reprovisioned was 4 days before, during the Ao/tP's blocking maneuvers to keep Lee away from Washington. His men's ration bags and cartridge boxes were empty, as was his artillery caissons. Meanwhile, the ANV had stripped the area for miles around of anything edible and had intercepted several QM wagon trains full of supplies [including ammo]. And Meade's wagon trains were still 10 miles back at the end of Day Three of G'burg. Had Meade demanded that his Army pursue Lee, he had nothing to fight the ANV with!
I completely agree with you that if it was possible for Meade to block Lee's return to Virginia, he should have done so. Where I disagree with you is that I don't think it was possible given the information that Meade had on the morning of 04July.
Grant would never have said of Lee that "He's the best soldier on either side." He didn't have a high opinion of Lee. This is what he actually had to say about him: "I never ranked Lee as highly as some others of the army -- that is to say, I never had as much anxiety when he was in my front as when Joe Johnston was in my front." Look it up if you don't believe me.
Facts. Joe Johnston was a terrible foe to have across from you. A brilliant tactician, well respected commander, and wily as a fox.
Yes you are correct. I was going to state the same thing if you had not. What they do in these retellings is continue the myth of Lee's Generalship created by the "Lost Cause" historians who dominated those who wrote on the Civil war. They also helped to perpetuate the perspective that Grant was a drunk.
@@codyking4848 Joe Johnston was also one of the few Confederate generals who thought as Grant did in strategic terms. While Lee, Forrest, Hood and Jackson were obsessed with defending lines on a map, Johnston understood that when you're in an unfair fight you sometimes have to give ground and pick your fights carefully. Compare that with Lee's obsession with holding on to Richmond at all costs, and you understand why Johnston was scathing in his criticism of Lee.
No wonder Grant respected Johnston, they were two men cut from the same cloth.
The entire scene here with Grant is total cringe to anyone who reads Civil War history in any detail. Grant was shy, diffident, and considerate of the feelings of others to a fault. And under no circumstances would he have treated orders from Lincoln as a request that he could deign to fulfill if he felt like it. And the acting was almost as bad as the fake beard.
Thank you
Lincoln said " find out what Grant drinks and give every general a case of it."
Half to correct the record here. George G. Meade was never replaced as commander of the Army of the Potomac. Ulysses S. Grant replaced Henry W. Halleck who was general in chief of the Union Armies. Grant didn't want to remain behind in Washington as the new general in chief but accompanied the Army of the Potomac. He was never the army's immediate commander. That job remained with Meade through the end of the war. This video then has a misleading title.
Technically he was still in command, but in reality he was under Grant and with Grant being with the Army of the Potomac he could direct Mead and call the shots. That was the whole point of making him Supreme commander.
He was under Hallack's command before Gettysburg. But it's true that Grant led in the field.
In other words, while I doubt he ever said so to Lincoln, Grant fully agreed with Meade that the army needed to reorganize before it had any more adventures against Bobby Lee.
Two different battles. Wilderness was fought at the beginning of the campaign, Cold Harbor was fought just before they siege of Petersburg.
+TheGsxtage Wilderness and Cold Harbour were planned by Grant, as was the Siege of Petersburg as a whole. These were distinct events.
I'm 60 and still learning about the battle of Gettysburg. Thank you.
Did you visit the site?
The North won.
Grant knew that Meade was a fine officer. Meade was a victim of a lot of vicious in-fighting. Meade did rather well at Gettysburg. The Army of the Potomac was
in no condition to attack Lee after Gettysburg. Grant knew it and retained Meade and Meade served as commander of the Army of the Potomac until the end of the war.
Yes! Furthermore Lincoln had told Meade not to attack Lee. He knew the advantage of a strong defensive position.
I saw a little of Chris Matthews on President Carter last night. One story I had not heard before was that, at a point where it looked like the Camp David talks were breaking up, Carter took both sides to Gettysburg, which isabout 25 miles away. It turned out that the military advisers on both sides had studied Gettysburg very thoroughly in the military school. Menachem Begin spontaneously recited the Gettysburg Address when they reached the Cemetery. A little more prodding and the sides made concessions they had strongly resisted before, and he got the agreement.
The Battle of Gettysburg somehow continues to have an impact.
After Lee's defeat at Gettysburg, General Meade wrote to President Lincoln saying: "We have successfully driven the enemy off of our soil."
President Lincoln, furiously, responded: "Why is it difficult for you to understand that it is ALL our soil?"
Because - at the moment - it wasn't.
.
Yes, it was.
@@BobSmith-dk8nw Yes it was. Declarations from traitors do not change that.
It's like they decided, "Let's make an accurate Civil War movie, but let's not try too hard."
Still...this was better than "The Blue and the Gray"...that mini-series where the war's most massive battles were recreated...with TENS of re-enactors. :-)
@@gheilers True! haha I'd forgotten just how cheesy Blue and Gray battles were
BD Yes, even George Hazard couldn't get his facts right: Grant was three years ahead of him at West Point, not two.
@UThink UCan I bet you're fun at parties
@@pameladrews6448 It was not Blue and Gray but North and South that had Geeore Hazerd as a character in it. But its no wonder he got confused about how many years Grant was ahead of him. If I remember correctly he was having problems with mathemantics.
I was simply blown away by this video. I had low expectations but this was quality at the highest degree. The screenplay, acting & cinematography were excellent.
You reckon? I thought the guy playing Lincoln absolutely sucked - a real ham. If you want to see a great acting performance as Lincoln try Daniel Day-Lewis in the film of the same name.
@@kenoliver8913 I think that your evaluation of the actor portraying Lincoln is harsh. But I accept your opinion.
I think that Raymond Massey did the best film depiction of Lincoln in "Abe Lincoln in Illinois." But probably Massey's voice was more magnificent than Lincoln's.
I think that Sam Waterston did a fine job of playing Lincoln in the film adaptation of Gore Vidal's novel, "Lincoln."
you need to get out more. this is ludicrous
Is you high?
Really?
Officer: "I know him well"
Grant: "I hear you're from Washington, Colonel."
Lincoln is played, here, by Hal Holbrook, and Grant by Anthony Zerbe. This video is from the mini-series “North and South.” It is not from the movie “Lincoln.”
To be accurate General Meade had only just taken control of the Army Of The Potomac. Days before , Gettysburg. With the circumstances, logistics as they were. The decision's Lincoln had to make were extremely difficult. Thanks: Excellent researching.
Good god the acting here is as good as it gets. I feel privileged and honored to have had the opportunity to sit in silent amazement as these golden geese of the screen actors gild put on a clinic.
Isnt lincoln supposed to have a high pitched drawl?
This guy sounds like a chain smoker.
You're a relative youngster. My generation bought into the deep-voiced portrayals of Lincoln by distinguished actors such as Henry Fonda, Raymond Massey, Gregory Peck, and even Sam Watterston. We wanted Lincoln portrayed with gravity and dignity.
It's only in recent decades that deeper research has been incorporated into screen depictions. I'm sure Daniel Day-Lewis has given the most accurate portrayal to date - but it took generations to get to this point.
@Leo Peridot Great analysis, sir. Longstreet was way ahead of others in terms of warfare. He bloodied the Yankees at every turn and wasn't glorified like Jackson. Longstreet was a real soldier and simply the best.
@Leo Peridot I think Longstreet has to get a pass for Day 2 and 3 at Gettysburg, since he was known to be opposed to both assaults. Now, on the other hand, he has greater responsibility for the desultory Knoxville campaign, and his fumbling at Seven Pines (though that was, admittedly, his first action at that level of command - he had a learning curve like everyone else). But as a corps commander, you can make a very good argument he was the best on either side in the entire war.
Before Daniel Day Lewis my Lincoln came from _Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure._
@Leo Peridot You can ding Longstreet on execution, not conception, which was entirely Lee's. But there was never ANY chance that Pickett's Charge was going to succeed, not even on Longstreet's best day. It was doomed to failure. DOOMED.
My great grandfather was at fort Donleson . Was wounded two bullets in one leg and one in the other one and his second joint of his middle finger shot off . One bullet remain until his death in 1906. 11th Illinois volunteers infantry regiment company B
So what. Union War Pig.
The makeup department should have been sent to Andersonville.
civilwar ng1 well... they say tragedy plus time equals humor...it was kind of funny
too soon.
Funny! What about Lincoln, he looks pretting good to me.
That made me laugh out loud. Thank you.
Lol hilarious
Great acting and Lincoln & Grant look like the origninal photos of these great men!
Grant never had that kind of beard. His was shorter and covered his entire face. Just look at the pictures. I suppose making it look like Grants beard would have required him to actually grow one rather than glueing one on.
Wow that's the most realistic looking Lincoln I've ever seen actually looks like the real Lincoln
Akashi record picture of Abraham Lincoln, maybe real life he looks like not much so they use Akashi picture 😇 ok hopefully he can understand even actor picture copycat of Akashi record picture 😇 ok
Too bad it doesn't sound like him. By all accounts he was soft-spoken
Grant's plan was simple, where ever Lee went he went, his style of warfare was simple, brutal. Lee was the better tactician but Grant kept after him till he wore him down. After previous battles other Generals withdrew and "recovered", this allowed Lee to recover also and prolonged the war. You hit someone enough times with a sledgehammer they will feel it.
You make a good point. However, I think the Grant that stalked Lee was not the Grant that nearly lost Shiloh. I think U. S. Grant grew as a commander (not that Lee didn't) and accepted a reality that was rejected early on : it would be a long, bloody war.
You remember old Winfield Scott and his "Anaconda Plan." I read a little about Scott, and I like him no better than when I first saw a picture of "Old Fuss and Feathers" in a pictorial history my sister gave me in the 60's. But Scott was right : the North was going to have to strangle the South.
I'd almost say this was an exception to the adage, "Generals always fight the last war, " only, Winfield Scott was retiring and George McClellan in effect became Chief of Staff. He undertook to fight "the last war. "
It's funny. Allen Pinkerton, I understand, fed McClellan consistent overestimates of enemy strength contributing to Union paralysis. I saw a video that suggested Pinkerton was associated with communists, the Illuminati, or both and intent on conducting a civil war that would result in the alteration of American society. We love conspiracy theories.
I agree now that Grant was brutal - with Lincoln's approval. Grant was a better commander than he's been credited for being. Current assessments show him to have gained a better grasp of the situation he was faced with and to be uncannily calm under fire.
@@cedricgist7614 the one thing that Grant is also not given credit for is his almost detached manner in battle. Even though he "learned a lesson" at Shilo he didn't 0anic like those around him were doing, his steadiness calmed the others and they were able to scratch something out of nothing, to say the army didn't crumble in to a catastrophe like at Bullrun. Though he cared for his men he knew a price would be high to win the war but unlike others who retreated or just sat after a battle he moved forward even after suffering severe casualties after the 2nd battle of the wilderness and shortly after cold harbor. Grant's reasoning was that even though he suffered losses so did Lee, the difference he could replace his, Lee could not!
It's the jobofa general to engineer the most lop-sided,unfairdisasterfor America'senremies possible-andthe quickerthe better. A generally officer raised worship Napoleon Bonapartehad this odd idea that he-and they-would win wars by cute and cqlevertactical moves, leading glorious battles full-dress uniforms with colors flying and bands playing!Against Lee,thatwas suicidakandwastedthe Unions potential superiority numbers,artillery,logisticsand communications!The lincoln found-or rather workedhisway down the listto a general who knew you win by ripping into theenemyandmurderingthem wholesaleuntilthey giveupin despair!
Yet Lee consistently lost 5% more men per engagement when facing Grant, even while fighting on the defensive and frequently behind fortifications. The relentless engagement did wear Lee's army, but that is a tactic the other Generals did not use. At the end Grant used the media who posted his order to Sheridan to move South and join Sherman. Thus Lee was surprised to find Sheridan behind him at Appomattox. Lee could never find a way to defeat Grant, not once. So, was he really the better General?
I don't get it, isn't hitting someone once with a sledge hammer enough to make him feel? If you hit him more he'll probably die
I remember watching this on TV in the 80s when it was aired. Hal Holbrook did such a good job as President Lincoln.
hahahahaha He is absolutely horrible in this
"I can't spare him, he fights"
"He'd like to know so he can buy some for his other generals." LOL
Oh and Meade was never fired... He remained commander of the Army of the Potomac until the end of the War... Grant was commander of all Union forces only the second Lt. General in American history after Washington.... The more you know.
As I understand it, Lincoln had a high-pitched, reedy voice, not the growl this actor is doing.
Hal Holbrook.
Elmo
Not easy to find a (good) actor who can match Lincoln's physicality and that high timber of voice. Honestly, Daniel Day Lewis really was the first.
Think it's like George c Scott as general patton adds to myth and mystic of the man
Lincoln was a suspicious character. What did he do that drove his wife insane ? What disgusting personal habits did this ambitious neo Marxist hide ?
Actor playing Lincoln ...excellent portrayal 🎭🖼
I agree! Hal Holbrook is his name, and I'd say he's by far the best Lincoln portrayer
@@georgiapatriot13097 could be friend
@@georgiapatriot13097 Daniel Day-Lewis
Sorry, this is Hal Holbrook in the role of Lincoln, not Daniel Day Lewis, who had the lead role in the 2012 movie Lincoln...(Holbrook did appear as Senator F. Preston Blair in that same movie). Holbrook played Lincoln at least twice, in the 1970s TV miniseries "Carl Sandbergs' Lincoln", and again in the 1980s miniseries North and the South, & the North & South ll. Nothing against Mr. Holbrook, but I've always been sold on Gregory Peck to have played the best Lincoln.
@@waistgunner3930 Thanks ...wouldn't mind driving 🚗 a new Lincoln 😁
This was part of "North & South: Book Two", They were great movies!! All 3 of them!
2:54)Hiram U. Grant was promoted to General(O-10) after his death. The stars indicate the rank of Major General(O-8) in command of 1 division.
3:44)The colonel(O-6) is wearing a General Officers' coat.
At the time, major general was about the highest a man could expect to rise in charge of volunteers (don’t even get me started on brevets or regular army ranks). Here, it’s accurate that Grant is still a major general, as he had yet to officially be appointed Lt General, of which on,y two other men held such rank: Winfield Scott and Washington himself
Hell yes Lincoln was disappointed that Lee escaped, and following the great victory at Vicksburg a chance for the war to be over in 1863, but in August he sent a message to Meade congratulating and thanking him for the victory as fought with regard for what he didn't do. But he was more disappointed in Meade's lack of aggression after the AoP had addressed its post-Gettysburg problems and the lackadaisical actions August-October. He even pulled Hooker's corp away from VA and sent it to Tennessee (along with Sherman and Grant.) But unlike this movie, Grant wasn't appointed general of the armies for several months following Gettysburg.
Grant knew how to defeat Lee, Lee, by then, knew how to fight on the defensive. Grant won the war, but the price was absolutely horrendous. It's something every single American needs to know about.......
The north fought the entire war one handed. Look at everything else the government was engaged with during the conflict, from western expansion to scientific endeavors, to industrial growth, to continuing conflicts with native Americans; Had they truly brought everything to the table against the south, the war might have been over two years earlier. Even with the hope of foreign intervention, the south never had a chance!
@@williamanthony9090 Yeah, I'm not sure what he's getting at....Grant was on the offensive in the South the entire time ---of course his casualties were going to be higher. He had to win the war before the election could oust Lincoln, and he did. Lee on the other hand, butchered men that he couldn't spare--instead of fighting a guerrila campaign which would likely have drawn out the war until a cease fire could be signed. Even Lee said that Grant had managed the Virginia campaign remarkably well. Please stop @Darth Belal with the Lost Cause apologist rhetoric nonsense. The country has woken up to it.
@@williamanthony9090 Too many of the Union Generals bought their ocmmissions and were in the war purely to advance thair political careers. They was constant rivalries and back stabbing of each other. Too much politics involved.
Grant held Lee in high regard and one time when someone said some derogatory things about Lee in front of Grant he gave the man a dressing down.
Lee was good, but not the best; that was Grant.
As tacticians, both men were workmanlike at best -- a slight edge to Lee b/c Chancellorsville being taken back b/c Pickett's Charge.
An operational genius (provided Jackson was around to execute his plans), Lee's strategic prowess was middling at best. He ignored the very nature of the war -- as a contest of population numbers and of industrial resources, and of the application of new commercial technologies to war; one featuring *regional* and even *inter-regional* mobility. In both his campaigns into Pennsylvania (1862, 1863), he suffered Rebel casualties he could ill afford, and emboldened his enemy -- incld. into putting some 175 regiments of Black soldiers into uniform against him! Lee underestimated the North's will to see things through, and failed to adapt his army's style of war-fighting and its objectives to the progressively debilitating effects of the naval blockade of Southern ports ahd the disruption of Southern infrastructure. Lee's "golden period" as a general lasted only about 11 months -- from the end of the Peninsular Campaign to the Battle of Chancellorsville.
Grant (with Sherman and Sheridan to execute his plans) commanded and coordinated ALL the Northern armies -- not just one, as Lee did. He knew his enemy better than did Lee. Brilliantly, he loosed Sherman on a giant raid (Atlanta to the sea, late 1864) that showed he had a superior understanding of the components of enemy morale and of the importance of a stable home front in supporting armies in the field.
Lee and the confederates were fighting the Civil War; Grant was fighting the next one.
1) Abraham Lincoln had a high pitched shrill voice
2) I've heard grant was actually very quiet and shy.
Yes, but he wasn't afraid to throw men at Lee.
Other generals tried to pull fancy tricks with lee and wanted decisive victories, Grant, on the other hand, understood that he needed to wear down the rebels which is what he did.
Yep, he was a bit awkward in social situations like banquets. But when it came to battle, the man had as much confidence as anyone.
@@michaeloc14 He also reportedly had a violent temper towards anyone that abused animals. I heard a story where he beat one of his men for beating a horse
@@megabladechronicles962 It wasn't one of his men, but a teamster.
I love how this shows General Grant’s admiration and respect he had for General Lee.
I'm not convinced that Grant had all that much respect and admiration for Lee.
Read Grant's very fine memoirs, especially the chapters concerning his service in Mexico. He notes that he was glad to have served with many Confederate senior officers in Mexico when they were junior United States officers. He had a good idea of their military quality from that personal experience without relying on the Confederate propaganda that constantly sang the praises of its army's generals.
Grant never openly denigrated Lee in his memoirs. But I did sense that Lee was one of those junior officers in Mexico who did not especially impress him.
@@johnbowen2956 thats probably a good idea (Read the Grant memoirs).
Why would anyone have admiration and respect for a traior to his country who owned human beings and treated them like farm animals.
I love how it shows Lee getting thumped
People trying to defend Meade, for all the reasons noted in this clip and elsewhere, are pretty clueless IMO. Oh, Lee was **retreating.** As in, he wasn't in position to form a static defense if Meade had pursued. Meade actually convened a council of war after July 2, wondering whether to stay at Gettysburg or withdraw. I've always seen that as him hoping his corps and division commanders would vote for withdrawal.
2:11 If it is July in D.C. I doubt there would have been a fire burning in the heater.
LOL ... so very true. The things people pick up on.
After Gettysburg, Grant was still in Vicksburg.
Maybe the scene doesn't make it clear that the colonel had to travel some distance to reach Grant. This segment also doesn't hint that Meade wasn't replaced, but months later Grant would become Chief of Staff and retain Meade as head of the Army of the Potomac.
“What Grant had, and what almost any great general needs, was a deep, natural, and impossible-to-quantify instinct for war.” 💀
-from “How To Fight Presidents”, by Daniel O’Brien
Incredibly funny and surprisingly educational book.
Love how the old title of this was “Meade Fired, Grant Hired” and do to some aggressive complaints pointing the historical inaccuracies, the uploader came back years later and changed the title.
This entire video is filled with inaccuracies. The just keep repeating the same stories that were created and repeated in movies .
@@WILTALK I know, I just find it a funny image to think that the channel uploaded this video 10 years ago and probably thought nothing of it, then gets a flood of messages in his inbox and goes back to a video he probably forgot he uploaded because people on the TH-cam comment section got mad lmao
From a scene detail observation, as this was in July in Washington D.C., when Lincoln was tasking the colonel to go talk to Grant, why was there a fire in the corner stove and the lamps lit during daylight hours?
I heard he was drunk at Shiloh
He carried the day though...
BlueBoy0316
Advisor- sir get rid of Grant he’s a slaughterer!
Lincoln- didn’t he win?
Advisor- yes sir BUT! He’s a drunk!
Lincoln- well what does he like to drink?
Advisor- I believe whiskey sir
Lincoln- then send him MORE!
@@V1nce_man ..Lincoln did not say that.. he said:
- ask what kind of whiskey he drinks so I can send a barrell to my other generals..
Humberto Flores
I know I’m just making jokes
Humberto Flores
I actually didn’t know he sent him any
He spent a lot of time drunk uwhen he was up the Yazoo in early '63, too.
Lincoln had every right to be furious.
Ikr. Why the hell are the 19th century generals trash
Yes and now
Meades order where Stopp Lee from move to North
Not to invade the South
Meade was right
It’s hot as hell in D.C. in July. Why’s the stove going except to keep the coffee hot?
General George Meade was a humanitarian and a gentleman. A fun fact there are still lighthouses functioning in Florida that were designed and built by General Meade over 170 years ago.
With respect to both generals I think that Grant's experience in the West gave him a greater understanding of the continental perspectives involved, the strategy, movements and economics to control half a continent, where as Meade was more familiar with protecting the area around the Capitol's and trying to defeat Lee, Grant seen the problem in front of him and attacked it. Just my opinion. Love the history.Thx.
You know what's just down right funny?
The actor playing Lincoln in this series was also in Steven Spielberg's Lincoln playing right alongside Mr. Lewis.
Which role?
Hal Holbrook
Nathan Bedford forist is a underrated formidable adversary to face leading from the front, had a conciderable number of horses shot from under him.
I remember watching this mini-series back in that decade, when I was an avid Civil War "buff". Holbrook made the BEST impression of Lincoln I've ever seen; as he did of Lincoln's contemporary, Mark Twain. The only thing "off" was they should have dyed his hair BLACK because Lincoln's hair WASN'T brown; and by 1863 it was tinged with grey. Otherwise, it was an excellent impression; though I've read that Lincoln's voice was actually higher pitched with a slight "squeak" in it.
Would have preferred to see Charlton Heston play Lincoln (instead of Gregory Peck) in the earlier mini-series of that decade, "The Blue and the Grey". It was one of the PRIME roles he missed out on ever playing.
And when President U.S. Grant was dying of cancer in near poverty , worried about his family a southern gentleman named Mark Twain published Grants personal history thus saving Grant's family from want and need .
love grant -- super underrated leader
Grant actually took fewer casualties in purely offensive operations than Lee did. Even counting Cold Harbor.
What's funny is they accused Grant of being a drunkard, yet the Army of the Potomac was chalk full of half-wit major generals (like French for example) who were completely sodden most of the time. Officers could obtain 'medicinal whiskey' from the commissary while enlisted could be punished for having it. Many times an NCO would obtain whiskey charging it to so and so officer without their knowledge. Some ingenious Confederates kept their hooch stashed in a hollowed out watermelon that they buried underneath their tent to which they would stick straws in when they felt like imbibing some.
Also, these seems to lend belief that Grant also deified Lee, when the contrary is more true. Although he respected Lee he believed his success was more due to the incompetency of Grants predecessors.
well that doesn't discount the previous commanders mind you, remember Grant kept quite a few commanders on like Meade. And fired those who had little on the way of merit, Grant and Sherman are the first modern generals with Grants administrative skill and Sherman's tenacious offensives.
Meade was actually horribly under rated, and Lincoln really did him poorly after Gettysburg. Meade did in fact move pretty quickly but Lee's army had an inside line on the march.
Would like to know what movie or television program this clip is from.
That is a fine performance as Lincoln by actor Hal Holbrook.
While Hal Holbrook isn't as tall as the real-life Lincoln was, he DOES look like him physically, so kudos to the makeup department; plus, Hal Holbrook isn't bad as Lincoln, IMO...
The problem is that Meade was right. He had just fought for three days, some 30% of his men were dead, wounded, or missing, the units required resupply and reorganization. Officers were dead or incapacitated. Sure, Meade had won, but that doesn't mean he could attack Lee.
Lee was worse off, could have ended the war in 63 with another decisive battle
@@yoyyoy6357 except there wasn't a decisive battle in the Eastern Theatre until 1864, when Grant arrives. Lee's army was always able to make an ordered withdrawal if conditions were unfavorable, as were defeated Union armies. The armies remained mostly intact. At no point did either side achieve a decisive victory until basically the end of the war.
and on top of that Lee had fortified while he prepared to cross the river, all in all Meade made the right call which is why even though Lincoln disagreed with his action, he never publicly reprimanded him, he only wrote a letter which he then never sent.
Meade was the first Union general who was not outsmarted by Lee. When he arrived in Gettysburg, he understood the terrain, the positions, the situation of the battle thus far and successfully PREDICTED Lee's next move...a change against the Union centre. He didn't move forces from the centre, to reinforce the battered flanks, he let them there.
Lee was anticipating the Union commanders to move forces away from the centre to the flanks. He also overestimated the effect of his artillery bombardment. This resulted into the massacre of the Picket's brigade.
@@IMAN7THRYLOS yes. Meade's cautious but measured approach is what made him one of the better Union commanders. He was had a good head on his shoulders and did not allow himself to be drawn into unfavourable circumstances by politicians at home or the enemy on the field.
Wonderful .
The guy playing Lincoln is awesome.
This movie, like most, don't make clear the timeframe for selecting Grant, nor what happened to Meade. Gettysburg was in July of 1863. Grant was not made commander of all the Union armies until March of 1864. Meade remained commander of the Army of the Potomac for the duration of the war, and retained complete command of the army for 9 months after Gettysburg. After March 1864 Grant kept him on a short leash but still allowed him some latitude for operational control. By the end of 1864, however, Grant was micromanaging Meade and was the de facto commander of the AOP. Meade remained commander until June of 1865. He continued military service until 1872. And a bit of trivia. There are busts of five civil war generals in the crypt of Grant's Tomb. Meade is not one of them. Grant's tomb is not a highly visited memorial, which is unfortunate because it really is impressive, and shows the esteem in which he was held. If you have been to Les Invalides in Paris the influence of Napoleon's tomb on the design of Grant's tomb is obvious as soon as you walk into the building.
Nice! Thanks for the history!
There was an old question asked in School back in the day. Who's buried in Grant's Tomb. Many couldn't answer 😂
Fun fact: 2 weeks earlier on June 20 1863 West Virginia was admitted as the 35th state in the union
Hal Holbrook plays Lincoln here. He does a great job and his make-up was
superb! RIP to Hal (and to Lincoln).
Greg-Good points. Let me add one other. In late July 1864, Lincoln and Grant meet at City Point. There is no record of what said, but from that point on, Washington DC was bypassed and Grant would run the war from City Point.
0:46 the guy in the background to the right, his eyebrows make him look so angry LMAO
Because everyone else is already discussing the big stuff: To those not familiar with American apple cider, we make ours alcohol free, whether that makes it better or worse to those kinds brewed with it I will leave you to decide.
multi-great uncle Johnny (appleseed)made fortune out of applejack in tgearlt nineteenth century. He'd buy likely patchofground, plantain applrorchard,anf mkeadeal witha local to look afterthetreesan collective apples' he mightfinancean all press with another lacalto pressoutthe juiceanf barrelthe juicentilitreachedfullpotency. Then you could sellthestufffora healthy pile per barrel-wjichwaseasierto ship east than mostofthefrontier'sother products!
This is from the series North and South, based upon the books of John Jakes, starring patrick swayze, made in the 1980s, in which halbrook reprises his role as Lincoln. You might also recognize the Grant actor as Anthony Zerbe who also played the villainous General on Star Trek Insurrection. Halbrook played Lincoln earlier int he 70s in a series called Lincoln.
And the rest is history, thank God.
Hal Holbrook was absolutely REMARKABLE as Lincoln. There have been a couple of really good ones but Holbrook was truly my favorite.
Yet it feels rather amusing now how people assumed what Lincoln's voice sounded like when we know now that Daniel Day Lewis captured the true high pitch of that President's voice.
@kchishol1970 It's NOT all about voice
Meade was not exactly a shrinking violet. He and Reynolds had reputations as being among the hardest fighting division commanders in the army. His division actually penetrated the Confederate right wing at Fredericksburg but could not get any suport. One general he asked for help refused to move without orders, a response that would have doomed the Union at Gettysburg. My great great grandmother's uncle led the southern division which managed to cork the hole, at the cost of his own life.
At the end of Gettysburg, Meade had lost his two best corps commanders, his friend Reynolds dead and Hancock badly wounded. One can argue that the loss of Dan Sickles was a plus, but that was another Corps commander down.In addition, Gibbon, the original commander of the Iron Brigade, was Hancock's succssor as commander of the II Corps was also wounded and the Iron Brigade, one of the elite units of the Army of the Potomac, was little more than a large company at the end of the battle. I Corps and III Corps were so badly cut up that at the end of the year they were broken up and their units transferred to other Corps. The Union cavalry, which would lead the pursuit had been heavily engage on the first day (the remnants of Buford's brigade were sent to guard Frederick MD so the fresh cavalry unit could move north.) at the Battle of Hanover on the first day of Gettysburg, in the defense of the East Cavalry Field on the third day, and in an attack on the Confederater left at the end of the third day. In addition, they, like Stuart, had fought a hard action at Brandy Station and then been constantly on the move thereafter. The Union VI Corps arrived during a particularly hard period on the second day and was committed piecemeal across the battlefield, and though on paper it had not fought, its units were scattered all over the place and had to be located and reassembled before the corps could move.
Meanwhile Lincoln et al could get more up to date information from Vicksburg via telegraph than they could get from Gettysburg, because Early and later Stuart had cut most of the lines in Adams and York Counties before and during the Battle.
Thanks for your extensive comment : you're a student of the war.
Good point about Meade as a fighter. Does your outlook change as you advance to higher command? Or do you face unique situations that you must adapt to in order to continue succeeding?
The "Peter Principle" comes into play here: you know, the theory that we rise to our level of incompetence. Many have commented as you have, that Meade was a fine commander and continued to be so.
The more I examine the causes of the war and the conduct of the war, the more I'm tempted to believe that America was fated to this grueling, bloody conflict. I know this flies in the face of reason. What do you think?
You do have a wider area of responsibility with more factors to take into account. Some can handle it, some, like Custer, should never have an independent command. In the case of Meade after Gettysburg, He still had to maintain a position between the Confederates and DC, so he had to guarrd the South Mountain Gaps. He also had responsibility for the Confederate POWs, which, as a Division Commander, he just turned over to a higher authority. He also had to balance out the whle army, not just his division. He had to get casualty reports from his lower commanders (which at each step up, takes longer to get); as said elsewhere, Several of his Corps would need major restructuring just too give tham a command structure which would allow him to issue orders effectively. Sometimes an inexperienced or mediocre officer was the sole senior officer surviving for a major formation, and he would have to transfer someone else in from another unit to take command (without substantially weakening the donating unit). And some Corps had subordinate units scattered around the battlefield which had to be located and brought back together. The same applies to invividuals separated from their units in the fighting - the number of men available usualy climbed several days after the battle as men relocated their Division, brigade, regiment, down to their platoon (which might be down to a few men).
Remember that he knew Lee was hurt, but he did not know exactly how badly. For all that, Meade was not all that far behind Lee. The one thing I might have done, was ask for troops from Harpers Ferry and some of the Washington garrison to cross the Potomac and move upstream to force Lee to make an opposed crossing of the Potomac, but those troops were not under his control.
That'swhatinfuriated Lincoln! Somehow, Leegot ALlthe breaks!napoleon was particularlyfondofanalyzinghis opponents-andcarried estimatesoftheirskillandfightingsttitudesaroundwith him on campaign. But ultimately,heask his staff:"yes-BUTIE LUCKY?
First of all. The battle of Gettysburg did not end on July 4th. For the next ten days Mead's army fought a running battle with Lee until it reached the Potomac. Once it crossed the Potomac the battle continued for another two weeks. Lee's wagon train of wounded stretched for almost 17 miles and was harassed and continuously engaged. The weather had a great deal to do with how the battle unfolded See One continuous fight by Wittenberg
*Meade's army
I consider Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain one of the colonels in the Union Army of the Potomacat Gettysburg. His regiment's defense of Little Round Top was an improvisational masterpiece that kept the AOP from losing at Gettysburg on the second day of the battle!
So many things are overlooked by arm chair generals. It started to rain heavily after the battle. Lee pulled out under cover of rain and darkness. He knew he wasn't going to be followed. The roads were a mess. He made sure of that with his wagons and cannon. It would have been almost impossible to keep powder dry in a rain storm while trying to attack. An army in defense could keep powder dry a lot easier. Under those conditions any smart commander knew he would be at a huge disadvantage attacking a defensive position regardless of the numbers. Grant would have done the same thing. Both Meade and Lee knew it was just a battle. Lee knew he couldn't win the war. Meade knew the North could win and would in time.
Custer and the Cavalry fought with the rear. Funny West Virginian unionist fought with rebels from Maryland there.
And Lincoln actually understood that. While he was pissed that Lee got away, he didn't berate Meade's decision not to pursue
As has been pointed out again and again Lee's army was just as tired. And they had taken very heavy casualties. They KNEW they had lost the battle.
Meade could have pressured Lee the entire way back south. Bottom line is that Meade could have done more but was too timid.
Now in his defense his corps commanders were like a batch of cats; try herding cats to go in the same place at the same time
and he had lost arguably his best corps commander in Hancock.
But in the end he could have done more and did not
@@johnhallett5846 Meade didn't want to reward Lee with a victory after the defeat at Gettysburg. If he had tried to follow Lee - Lee would have turned on him and kicked his ass.
.
@@aaroncabatingan5238 Wrong. Lincoln DID berate Lee. He just didn't do it publicly.
One of Grant’s advantages in the West was that he had the best army of the war-the Army of the Tennessee and at Vicksburg his corps commanders were Sherman, Ord and McPherson. Why even McClernand was a better corps commander than Howard, Sickles, Sedgewick, Slocum, Newton and Sykes were. And at Chattanooga Grant had the other great Midwestern army as well, the Army of the Cumberland. But when Grant went east his instruments were the poorly functioning armies of the Potomac and James. Though by the end of the war with help from Westerners Sheridan and Ord, and with new energetic corps commanders (Wright, Humphreys, Parke, Griffin, Gibbon and Weitzel) Grant had those armies tuned up and and very efficient.
Howard wasn't a bad general, he just had the shittiest Corp in the AoP. He did well in the west; in fact when Sherman took the best of his generals and soldiers to Savannah, Howard was one of them. (Thomas, probably his second best commander, took the AoC to Nashville.)
How could you forget Hancock? He was arguably the best general of the entire war. It was his ability that saved the Federal army from destruction on July 2 thanks to Sickles' bonehead move
The man knows his history and corp commanders. Hats off to you
President Lincoln here is obviously channeling his inner Chancellor Gowran.
Meade was actually not a bad commander. He was a victim of the Peter principal. Still he served his country well at Gettysburg.
What movie is this from? I don't recognize it.
Meade wasn't fired though. He was remained the commanding officer of the Army of the Potomac, so Lincoln had make the rank of a 4 star General so Grant could be the General in Chief of Union Forces.
Congress made Grant a three star general. The first three star since Washington. It was after the war was over that Grant got his fourth star.
@@WILTALK And at the end of 2022, he was promoted to General of the Armies.
Meade was promoted sideways which is a military insult.
I love Lincolns hard drinking, God fearing accent.
It does play well, but apparently he was actually rather soft-spoken, with a rather high voice. Daniel Day-Lewis' portrayal in Lincoln (2012) is by all accounts I've seen more accurate.
Statistical Insanity that's because Daniel Day-Lewis does research on any character he plays plus he is one of those British actors that goes to those British academies that teaches the proper vehiculum for speaking English depending on which one Australian New Zealand American and he's classically-trained a stage actor before we came into movies movies are nothing but moving stage plays that moves for the movie really is it's a stage play for the cameras and a lot of stage actors don't like the cameras but they do Transition from stage to fill very well
That's Daniel Day-Lewis? I thought it was George C. Scott. Oo
There is "zero" chance Lincoln actually sounded like that.
Lincoln was no blushing violet. s a frontiersman head fearsomereputationas a fighter,beingso strong could holdafellingaxebythe heelofthe handlestraightoutfrom his body with the heavy iron headache there'd, longer than anyonrelse. Andgetinginyo a fist fight with him was a mistakefewmadewiyhoutregretting it!Perhapsthat'swhyhevalued Grants much. Lincoln was a fighter himself-andhr knew hoot win! Even if he used tell jokes himself about howlittleheknewofthe mechanicsofcommandingtroops. He'd been a captain inthe Blackhawk war, and oneway was drilling hiscompsabywhen they arrived a gatethrougha fence. Lincoln couldn't remember the correct orders havens troops pass single file through the gate-and finally settled for:?this herecompanis dismissedforFIVEMINUTES,when itwill fallIn again-on the othersideofthat gate!"
This is from the TV mini-series North and South: Love and War.
Meade commanded AOP to the end of the war. New to army command at Gettysburg(ONE week in command), he served admirably thru out the war. This scene is right outta Hollywood.
No one gets to be an Admiral or A General alone .
It takes being a special person to surround themselves with people who may be smarter than you.
The organization of such people and the implementation of policy is what takes skill .
It's scenes like these that warm my heart as they poke fun of critics made of great men
In my opinion, this is one of the best movies ever made
What made for TV movie is this?
Lincoln's surviving son once said that Raymond Massey had his father's voice and mannerisms (Massey played a starring role in a movie about Lincoln). Imitate Massey, and you've got a good Lincoln...
Thanks for that tidbit. You see, long before Daniel Day-Lewis' portrayal, I'd heard or read that Lincoln's voice was higher pitched than the popular portrayals prior - including Massey's.
So, you found a source that says Lincoln's youngest favored Massey's portrayal down to the voice. I think I saw the Massey version once, decades ago.
Thanks for sharing this.
One of my favorite "tall tales" about Lincoln (I have no sources to confirm its accuracy) is that when Lincoln was told that Grant drank whiskey before battle, Lincoln is said to have asked, "Do you know what brand he drinks?" The person replied, "No, Mr. President, I do not." Lincoln responded, "Well, if you find out, let me know. I want to send a barrel of it to all my other generals."
What movie was this and where can one watch it?
First off, they start this scene by saying it's July 4th, the day after Gettysburg. Lee held his lines on Seminary Ridge on the 4th, and did not commence his retreat until that night. Meade did not attack on the 4th because he was a good enough general to realize that after three days of battle, what he possessed was position power and not striking power. Meade did make an immediate pursuit and the cavalry harassed the retreat. Lee was moving on interior lines and Meade on exterior lines. When the AoP finally caught up with the ANV and was fully concentrated, Lee had his army entrenched in a strong position. Given the experience at Gettysburg of the futility of frontal assaults (where the forces were not entrenched), Meade was loathe to order frontal assaults on Lee's field fortifications. We could have expected about the same result as Grant experienced at Cold Harbor a year later. A defeat at that time would have negated the effects of victory at Gettysburg. Somehow, historians have tried to portray Lincoln as having more military sense than his generals, but closer to the truth is that Lincoln's interference with his generals, including Grant, helped prolong the war.
The scene is from the TV series "North and South": www.imdb.com/title/tt0088583/
Lee knew he could not battle indefinitely. Time was an advantage of the north due to greater numbers of men and materials and factories and infrastructure. Lee's frontal assault on day three was not a result of his grandiose ego and his sadistic or psychopathic indifference to the inevitable suffering it would cause, rather it was a result of his generals being too passive and restrained on the first 24 hours of the battle and not taking full advantage of the available terrain positions, and following up with their advantage of rolling momentum. Lee was not left with any other options than a final full measure attack. He needed to destroy the Northern Army completely, and this was never going to be done by sitting behind defensive positions. A full route and the bounty of fresh horses, cannons, food and provisions would allow him to continue the attack and possibly win the war. Grant was the perfect general for the situation, because he used the numbing effects of alcohol to withstand the horrific emotional and psychological trauma of war. He routinely ordered his men to advance into certain slaughter, as it was the only option available, just as Lee had determined on day 3 at Gettysburg. And, if one studies Grants attacks upon Lee starting with the Wilderness through Petersburg, we can see that this war could only have been won with overwhelming numerical superiority in men and material, and with an unflinching will to order thousands of men into certain death and mutilation.
"War is hell." Gave you a "like" despite your brutal conclusion. Was it inevitable?
The more I learn about the Civil War, its causes and how it was conducted, the more it seems that this nation was fated to a grueling, bloody conflict. That flies in the face of reason, I know.
Lee could have used a Buford. Lincoln could have used a Lee. Lincoln got a Grant after years of painful experience. At the outset, Winfield Scott, the bloated, departing Chief of Staff, speculated the "Anaconda Plan" - a war of attrition. McClellan rejected the plan - and as much as I dislike McClellan - I probably would have agreed with him. No one wanted a protracted, bloody war.
But the elder Scott was right, and Grant, Sherman, and other Union commanders learned the hard way. Warfare had changed : there weren't going to be any more Agincourts and Waterloos.
You didn't use the word "inevitable"; I did. But it's almost as if America had to pay a price for its hypocrisy and hubris. Beyond the issue of slavery - which was huge - was our assertion that a form of government and a nation like ours could continue. I understand Lincoln didn't scribble his "Gettysburg Address" on a napkin on the train to Pennsylvania. And I recently saw a video suggesting that communists engineered the Civil War, that the Illuminati and like-minded folk supported the carnage to further their ends.
I don't know. I do know that we still have a propensity for "solving" our problems through violence. So how "enlightened" and "sophisticated" are we really?
You are almost entirely wrong. What Lee had to do is keep the war going long enough for the Peace candidates to win the next election. Had Lee not attacked at Gettysburg the North would not have had that victory. Gettysburg and the capture of Vickburg helped Lincoln ot win his second term. If lincoln doesnlt win the North would have sued for peace. The aggression of Grants pressure on lee was necessitate by the growing peace movement in the North. Had lee escaped he could have kept the war going and the north would have sued for a compromise peace. This war was faught as much politically as it was militarily.
DOES ANY ONE KNOW WERE THIS WAS TAKEN FROM IF SO CAN YOU PLEASE LET ME KNOW
Realize that as George Washington has been called “the saver” of our country (by Noah Webster), so Grant could and should be recognized as “the saver” of our country in his conflict. This is significant; for Lincoln, in spite of historians’ sentiment for him, was not the saver of our Union, since he would have lost the 1864 election had it not been for the victories earlier in September of Sherman and Sheridan, subordinates of Grant carrying out his orders.
Furthermore, would you wish that there would be another Grant in another war on American soil? There will be. He will be the third and last saver of our Union in the upcoming war of succession. To those of you still alive at that time: Would you give him moral support all along, which neither Washington nor Grant received until toward the end of the wars? See that you do!
Read more about this in the article: “What Events will occur prior to the coming War?”
Gene Urtel -The Rivertown Press
YET HE CARRIED THE DAY!
Im finding this period in America's history so interesting. Im British and some will not agree but to my mind Robert E. Lee was a great gentleman. Either way many people died on both sides. I would like to visit the battlefields and museums one day. We saw Ken Burns series about the American Civil War and were mesmerised by it.
If you're interested in reading and can afford the shipping, historian Allen Nevins wrote 8 books covering the period 1847-1865 that are excellent. They're old now and some facts have been replaced, but they're still damn good. Amazon has them at a reasonable price; again I don't know if you can get them in Britain or what shipping might cost.
Lee was a thinking man and very honorable. I believe he was a tragic person torn between beliefs and what he perceived as duty. Remember that in 1860 we identified ourselves as citizens of a state rather than Americans. Typically, Lee identified himself as a Virginian, not an American. Like all people, he was molded by the world in which he lived. No one should judge people from previous periods by the standards that are in vogue today (Presentism: An attitude toward the past dominated by present-day attitudes and experiences.)
.
“Almost 110 years after the conclusion of the Civil War and his denial for amnesty by Secretary of State William Seward, Lee was officially pardoned by President Gerald Ford, and given a posthumous restoration of his full rights of citizenship.”
I believe that even the most ardent deriders of Lee will change their minds once they learn the facts about this great man.
What movie was this from?
"Apple cider?!? Goddam it, I thought it was whiskey!"
Wow this performance is almost Lincoln as a deranged villain! “We had them in our GRASP!”
Darth Lincon