Beekeeping: Fixing Mean Bees with Push In Queen Cages
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ต.ค. 2024
- I have had issues with queen acceptance this year. The hives in Ozark needed an attitude adjustment. @kamonreynolds hooked me up with some Michael Palmer queens and recommended I use push in queen cages for introduction. So I decided to give it a try. In this video I show you how I made the cages, installed the queens and released them. The results were definitely not perfect, but they could have certainly been worse.
#brucesbees #beekeeping #queenbee
@brucesbees is a beekeeping channel, a vlog of sorts. Here we discuss apis mellifera, aka the honeybee. We give people a look into our sideliner beekeeping operation. We share successes and failures. We show how we feed bees and treat bees for pests, such as varroa mites, small hive beetles and others. I am not a treatment free beekeeper though at one time I thought I wanted to be. We also discus things that are important to us that I think apply to beginning beekeepers and more seasoned beekeepers alike. We also show the beekeeping techniques we use to manage the bees and harvest our honey and sell our honey. We talk about beekeeping equipment and tools. At times we also catch swarms of bees and have even done a few cutouts, though I usually leave that for the professionals. This is not Beekeeping 101, though hopefully the information here is useful. As my good friend @Mike Barry says, this is not a necessarily a "how to" channel. It's a "how I do" channel. I hope you will continue to join us as we continue to perform hive inspections, discuss important matters in the beekeeping world, meet other beekeepers, perform splits, grow our operation and just continue down the path of this wonderful beekeeping adventure. Let's GO!!!
I appreciate how you put your videos together and share your whole process. Thanks Bruce!
Hey that means a lot. I am constantly trying to up my game. Some of my videos are pretty raw but I put a lot of effort and time into these kind of videos.
Great stuff Bruce. Push in cages can also be used to create a brood break to help control Varroa. Breaking that life cycle of the mite is an added weapon to your treatment protocol.
Thanks for the tip Richard. I just have to figure out how to keep the queen in there.
Wow this was a great video! Very interesting technique. Something I may try in the future. Thanks!
Let me know how it goes. Gus Mitchell has a couple of good videos. I think it is his introduction method of choice.
Had a mentor that made cages smaller, but the same way. He would move a queen from a huge colony with her and a frame of capped brood, leave with the field force and let them draw out queen cells. As soon as they cap, it would get a cage. He would spit on a virgin and walk her into a small queenless split. The bees would lick her off and she walked in like she owned the place. Lots of cool tricks for queen rearing!!!! Great video Bruce!
Yeah man. I still have a lot to learn. I do want to start getting into some more intentional queen rearing in the next year or two.
@@brucesbees you don’t realize how much you guys are influencing the industry. People are sharing, learning to be beekeepers not just bee Havers.
Thanks Tim. I really want to get this technique perfected. Not sure what I did wrong in some cases but I am excited to see how these new queens do. I am trying to follow Kamon’s plan for how he straightened his out. Still have a lot to learn but it’s a start.
This is great advice. Several times I have spit on a queen, either mated or virgin, that was getting balled and the bees would stop and accept her after cleaning her off.
Hmm. That is interesting. I may have to try that. A friend showed me that if you spit on your hands and then rub it on a surface after removing a swarm. The bees will not return to it. Interesting.
I have used push in cages many times with great success. If you use plastic foundation, try to push the cage down to the plastic because sometimes the bees will chew away the wax to get to the queen. I remove 1 frame and leave enough space so the bees can get to all sides, and the cage wont stick to the adjacent frame.
I think that is a great idea. Will also probably use elastic bands to help hold them in place. I definitely still have a lot to learn.
Bruce I always enjoy your videos. Making a functional door is a problem I have struggled with as well. I don't know of a better way of doing it that works any better than your way. I do know if you don't get the cage down to the plastic and hold it solid, the bees will surely tunnel under the cage.
Seems that way. Gus Mitchell used a rubber band to help hold it in place. I will probably try that next time.
What about using a silicone plug for a door? I bought a sac of them on Amazon and have found use of them for many things , one use was a plug at back for OA treatments
I've been greatly anticipating this video. Great job!
Thanks for checking in Conner.
I haven't used push-in cages, but Richard Noel uses them regularly and he says the key to push in cages is to push the cage in first to make the template in the comb that way when you're ready to push it in and leave it the spot is already made in the comb. You could also maybe try connect the cage to the queen cage and push them both into the frame at the same time, leaving them both in there. I don't know if that would work but it could be worth trying. That way you don't have to worry about the bees opening the door where you released the queen. I think you did great! Not everyone is willing to try new things, but it's always worth it! Thanks for sharing your experiences! Much love! 😊
Thanks for checking in and for the tip! And thanks for the kind words!
It's never easy and always a learning process. But that's why we do it.
Thanks for the video! keep'em comin.
Thanks for checking in!
Thx for your honesty
Appreciate it. Thanks for checking in.
Hi Bruce! Hive Beetles can indeed be a problem with push-in cages due to the limited number of bees under the cage and the brood that is killed by the cage. I have removed cages before with slime underneath, but queen still ok. Key is not to leave them in too long. Not saying I'm right, but I never add attendant to a push-in cage to antagonize the hive; I always release them from the queen cage first. Also, If you will block light from entering the cage the queen arrived in either by covering with your hand or or just turn in mesh side toward comb, she normally will walk straight into the push-in cage - i.e. into the light; no blowing or smoke required. This also works when you have a queen in a cupped hand that is trying to get away; just grab a cage and place above your thumb and create an opening in your hand by moving your "thumb gate"; she'll walk right in.
These are great tips. I will have to give them a try. Someone else told me about removing the attendants before introducing the queen. And then I saw a Michael Palmer video with him doing that. Had never thought of that before.
Nice job Bruce!!! Thanks!
Thanks for watching !
Thank you for sharing. That was interesting.
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching!
Works like magic👍
Need to perfect it still but I really like the concept.
Ive never had bees. Im learning so much from you.
Hey that’s great. Thanks for watching
Great video and they really do work well, thank you .
Thanks for checking in!
I use a queen cage on all of my installs (with a mated queen). Occasionally, you will have a few get out early even with plastic foundation (they usually survive). I release usually after two full days. Have had excellent results.
Good to know. Thanks. It’s a new experience for me. Still have a lot to learn.
Never used push cages that way but have made smaller ones to use when I find multiple cells on a frame and had pretty good success with that.
Het thanks for the tip.
Hey Bruce, I always use rubber bands to hold the cage in place and never had an issue with queens getting out or bees releasing her.
I think that is a good idea. Do you also remove a frame when you place the cage?
Yes I do, gives them needed room for queen acceptance @@brucesbees
Great video!
Thank you!
I know how you feel Bruce !!! I was bragging to my wife how I had this great virgin queen emerge on Monday then this morning I came to check on her and the whole Nuc I made had left ..my heart was broke !! …lol..good days and bad
No doubt. You never know exactly what the bees are going to do. Just have to set them up but they will do their own thing.
Hello Bruce great job . I do not know that any of that was on you bees will be bees . They are tricky. I have been wanting to try the push in cages but I run all wax foundations an I am sure they will get out of that so I will have to stick to just using the queen cages . Keep your video’s coming. THANKS
Thanks for checking in! I actually think wax foundation might work as well or better because you can push the cages in a little deeper. But I could be wrong.
pretty cool interesting way to introduce queens
Thanks for checking in Jeromy. I like the idea. Maybe I can get better at it.
@@brucesbees with the issue of them getting away maybe you could just leave the queen cage in the door and squish it into the wax as well then you wouldnt need to worry about lifting the mesh cage
I like where your mind is. Thanks for sharing Jeromy.
Great video! There is an old trick to stop the queen from flying away . . . . . . . . spray her with thick sugar water before you release her. It stops flying.
That’s a great idea. Would have to be sure some of the attendants are in the cage with her to help clean her off.
I've made these before and struggled. The block with marks on it is genius. .
His Mitchell has a good video about how to make these cages. I got the basic idea from him.
I NEED YOUR OPINION, thinking of trying something,I have 5 good capped queen cells on a frame in a queenless hive that will be emerging probably fri or sat.(2 or 3 days) ive thought about putting one of those over ea. Queen cell to try and save them and start some nucs. Not sure how i would remove cage off ea one to try and save them without loosing her (ea. One), whats your thoughts on that and how would you try that? Or not? Thanks again for all the educational support
I have heard of people doing that. Would just have to be prepared to catch the queens as you remove the cages. I like where your kind is. I think it would work!
Bruce, I appreciate your honesty. I lost one that flew away too. I was direct releasing a cage and damn she flew away. I was not smart enough to leave the cover off and hope she would fly back. Dummy. I have use the cage like you are and lost one. I wasn't down enough and they ate through the comb and damn another one lost.
Yeah. I still have to perfect things but I like the principle. Maybe can get better at it.
That's a lot of work I don't know how bad your acceptance was but I just stick them them in and check back 1 week later and check if they accepted her so I check and smash any queen cells
Yeah I had done a lot of that over the years but have had a difficult time with acceptance this year.
I use push in cages. Both Michael Palmer and Richard Noel suggest you should remove all of the attendants so the queen is under the cage alone. The presence of attendants can impact the colony accepting the new queen. They also try to have nectar or honey in the cage as well as brood. Yes, I have had a queen fly so I use a queen muff while removing the attendants out of the cage.
Ok good to know.
Good to know I ain't the only one that has had a queen fly away.
That’s a fact lol. Things rarely go as planned!
Virgins tend to be very skittish and flighty. I’ve been anesthetizing them for marking and when putting into push-in cages. Got a little device on Amazon that screws onto a CO2 cartridge. CO2 knocks bees out for a while, causes no harm. I fill a quart ziplock with CO2 gas, then drop in the queen clip containing the virgin and some attendants. They’re generally out, stone cold, within a few seconds, and remain that way for a few minutes. The duration depends on how efficiently the clip is put into the bag and how much CO2 is lost. Once they’re completely immobile, I either mark the queen or shake all the bees onto a frame and apply the push-in cage. If you do this, you’ll think you killed the bees, but in a bit you’ll start to see little tremors, then leg movements, then they’ll be back to normal a few minutes later. Anybody hesitant should just practice it a few times; grab some workers or drones in a clip, gas ‘em, see what happens. My understanding is that many commercial beeks do something similar. Think I got the idea from a vid by Joe, The Skinny Bee Man.
Interesting idea. Maybe I should give it a try.
Should have clarified: device is a “CO2 bike tire inflator”. Need that, plus a pack of CO2 cartridges, and a blunt needle like you use on any tire pump to inflate a basketball, etc.
Thanks for the clarification!
One could spray them with some sugar water, before lifting the cage, in order to make her sticky so that she can't fly.
That’s an idea. I have gone back to releasing the traditional way. It’s just so much easier and the results to me were not much different using this technique. I may try again in the future but not worth it to me for now.
Disappointing. But I appreciate your willingness to experiment. It's what I love about your channel. "How I do it, not a how to" I got inspired to introduce queen cells to my nucs I split from my stronger hives. Brilliant. Keep pushing brother.
Thanks. And good luck!
Looks good, but they can't go in and nurse her. Can they feed her through the screen?
Yes I believe they can.
I’ve seen this before and think it’s a great idea.
My queen supplier says he adds some powerful pheromone on the cage to help the bees accept her. Let’s see. This is a good second option. Thx.
Hmm. By powerful pheromone what do you mean? Something like Swarm Commander? Thanks for checking in!
Looks like you have quite a few hives under trees, I've had major hive beetle problems in past when i tried doing some under trees in edge of woods, the hive beetles hate direct sun but love the woods.
Maybe that is true but I haven’t had a huge difference. My Slocomb bees are mostly in the sun and that has historically been my worst beetle area. But I do agree it is probably better to have them in the sun for SHB control.
I still have two under a tree and checked today and saw a bunch of shb (bout a dozen) so I broke up 4 soft peppermint balls(candy) and dropped across top of frames, someone taught me that trick and I'm pretty sure it's been helping. Shb hate peppermint
Can you tell us where you got the number 8 screen please.
I actually tried Lowe’s and realized that it would be difficult to find locally. I know it is available on Amazon. But I have a beekeeper friend that had this roll he let me have. I need to go ahead and order some more so that I will have it around for projects. I was really surprised it was not result available at Lowe’s/Home Depot etc.
Just FYI…I have the same cage and used it once. When I came back to check on them a short time later, the queen was no longer in the cage. There was a hole chewed all the way through the comb and foundation, and bees were passing freely. Might need 2 cages…one on either side of the frame.😂
Yeah not sure what to do to keep her in there. Some stayed. Some did not. It’s crazy how different each colony acts.
@@brucesbees can’t wait to watch the video! At the day job right now, but will watch after. Thanks for all you do.
I did 5 splits earlier this year and only 1 out of 5 accepted the queens. I love cage idea. Good idea to have that cage butt up against empty combs though.
I next time I will probably remove a frame and use a rubber band to hold it against the frame. Will see. Still learning. But overall I think it was successful.
@@brucesbees I do too!! Good job. BTW I had a queen take off on me the other day.. it’s a sick feeling for sure.🙄
Get all the bees off the frame that you can then walk away from the hive then put your clean under the cage then bring it back that way you don't have to worry about the other bee's getting in
That’s what I did on the frame in the video towards the end of you saw that. It definitely worked better that way. Thanks for the tip!
How did you get those queens? I've emailed the last 3 years and can never get a response.
Kamon helped me out with it.
@brucesbees Good to have a friend in high places lol! Hope they do well for you. I look forward to following along.
So when you drop frame back in do you leave it spaced off the other one so they can walk the face of screen? Or press them together so they only access the edges to feed her?
I did not do that but next time I think I will. Also will probably use a rubber band to help secure the cages.
Where did you get the mesh?
I actually got it from a friend but you can find it on Amazon. I was amazed that they didn’t have it at Lowe’s.
@@brucesbees yep, i know.. Home Depot or Lowe’s. I found it on Amazon. Thanks , Bruce as always.
Har redan fungerat fint här hemma i många år ;)
Great video. You may want to edit out the addresses on the queen shipping box. Just a security and privacy thing.
Hmm. Not a bad idea. Thanks. Not sure how to do it now that it has been uploaded. Will definitely keep that in mind future videos. Definitely something to consider.
@@brucesbees or just edit out the section showing the addresses.
Ok I figured it out but it will take awhile to process. I went into the TH-cam editor.
Hey go back and watch now and let me know what you think. It’s from about the 7:57 to the 8:23 mark of the video. I think it turned out nice. Thanks for the recommendation. Makes total sense and it gave me a chance to learn something new!
Watching from Lancaster SC.
Thanks for watching!
Peterborough, Ontario
Awesome. Thanks for checking in!
Bruce always appreciate yoiur videos. I want to play devil's advocate and think outside the box a little and see if would be more successful so you wouldn't have to deal with the door issue.
I think if it was me, I would find a patch of brood that's kind of half filled, I would go ahead and try to line up the wooden cage on the frame where the push cage lined up at the bottom of it so when you put in the hive it rests on the bottom. I would also try to make the push cage with comb reach the top of the wooden queen cage and just take that cork out again, place the push cage over the wooden cage and let her release in there and not worry about a door and you'd have a better chance of not having any worker bees getting her out/opening up early. Just a thought, and maybe out of the box thinking for ya there Bruce. Good luck to you, and I think I may try this at some point and test my own method! :Edit: Also I would put the cage up against a honey frame or no frame at all and leave it more open so bees can get to her. I wouldn't want to prevent more brood from hatching on the other side as well.
I am all about outside the box thinking. Thanks! I had another viewer tell me today in the comments that Michael Palmer recommends release of the attendants outside the cage and only placing the queen in the push in cage. Not sure why. But then a video popped up on my feed with Michael doing just that! So maybe I need to try that next time.🤔 So many ways to do things. I still feel like a beginner at times
@@brucesbees always learning brother. I've only been doing it for 5 or 6 years now and I still learn something everyday. I'm in a lot of forums just to learn an easier way to do things hopefully. Keep at it, I was told I should/should've done videos as well since I do a lot of public speaking. I just don't enjoy myself on video haha. Keep doing the Lord's work, I for one appreciate you and your efforts!
Hey good stuff. I enjoy this kind of thing though I get obsessed with it and probably put more effort into it than I should. Haha.
I did this Saturday to isolate the queen. Left maybe a few attendees over emerging brood. The moths attacked it “covered in larva” and the queen has disappeared.(today)
Hmm. Not sure what to say. If you saw larvae they were probably Hive Beetle larvae. Not sure what happened to the queen. Looking back on it the success of the caged queen introductions were it as good as I had hoped. Not sure what I did wrong.
@@brucesbees friend didn’t get pictures, he thinks larva is large.
I have long queen cage bars frame size. They are supposed to be great at spreading the queens hormones over a wider range. They have an insert location for a wooden queen cage to release effortlessly from queen cage.
@donmattea yeah makes sense. I have had similar or even better success with the standard cages. Timing means a lot too. These queens were placed at a very difficult time of year.
Just my 2 cents but seems like a lotta extra work & expense! Just put normal queen cage in & let it go at that ! Be interesting to see a couple year side by side of both methods id bet be close to same accetance rate over time ! Good video as always
I have never tried this method before. Typically use the traditional method. This year have had some issues with acceptance, especially during the difficult summer time, so thought I would try this method. Frankly I am a little disappointed with the results but I need to adjust my technique I think. Doing a side by side comparison would be interesting for sure. Maybe that is something I can do in the future. Thanks for the input.
@@brucesbees hopefully u get the technique down & the rates are good ! Always good to try diffrent paths
Yeah I hope to get it ironed out. I think I will.
Maybe its the ball cap...😅😂
Could be lol. Roll Tide!!!🐝🏈😎
Loved the video… I’ve got 2 hives and need a Queen hive #2 is not preforming good…. Can you send me address/ phone # so I can get one ordered….. thank you so much!! That process was explained so well…. Thank you!!!
It is very tough to get through to Michael Palmer. I had to be referred by Kamon Reynolds. But there are a lot of good queen breeders out there you can order from. It is getting a bit late in the year though. I got some late queens from Lappes Bee Supply in Iowa a couple of years ago and I really liked them. They are a bit pricy though.
Why is this needed?
I tried to explain in the video. Maybe wasn’t clear?
What happened to Gus ? seems like he vanished
I am not sure. I done know that he really enjoys doing videos. It is a grind to grow a channel and he may have felt his time could be better used doing something else. I probably spend 10-15 hours a week or more working on my videos or trying to figure out how to improve my game. And the growth is agonizingly slow.
@@brucesbees he's not on FB anymore either just up and vanished last January.. something happened to him
He’s still out there. I still text him occasionally. But I don’t really know what is going on.
Guess he just got tired of the exposure. Some bee keepers keep so they don't have to deal with people. I know dealing with hobbyist isn't easy .. he had great channel hopefully he's just taking a break from it . I know I was lost last spring so many deadouts I was sick .. we powered back operation is twice the size it's ever been. Didn't need to feed only bought few queens. Glad I just used my survivor stock seems like bees are really healthy. I wanted to buy bulk bees but my son was against it. Glad I followed his ideas .. now we just need to figure out which direction we're going ..
Yeah maybe he is just taking a break. I did an interview with him on my channel a few months ago. He seemed a little down. Hopefully he will come back with some more videos but he has to do what is best for him. Sounds like things are looking up for you. I am trying to simply be a better beekeeper, but really struggle sometimes. The learning curve seems like it shouldn’t still be so steep!
When did you kill the old queen before you installed the new queen
Yes. Some of them I just moved away. But the more aggressive ones that I found I killed and replaced. The meanest one o never could find until after I had installed the queens so she is still in her colony but I moved her away and the field force returned to the home spot. Without the field force they are not nearly as aggressive. I will monitor them and probably replace her en ever I have access to another queen.
Once she went in, I would have pulled the cage- leaving the attendants out.
Why?
@@brucesbees I usually once goes in don't put in any of the bees shipped with her. If there are a few bees already in there, I just leave them. I like the queen to have to depend on the hive for resources. I originally learned how to use queen cages from gus mitchell videos.
@@brucesbees Also I have had a few queen on cage release fly. I keep the hive open for a few mins then I begin to check the frames for the queen, I usually find her.
Thanks for the input. My thinking is that the attendant bees will help care for her u til she gets comfortable. Then as the brood emerges in the cage and the queen begins to lay, she and the attendants will become a part of the new hive.
Just my thought process. It seemed to work ok whether attendants were in the cage with her or not.
Watching this channel is a complete mystery. It's 50/50, is either good or a complete shlt show
You are welcome to either watch or not but thanks for tuning into this one. Never claimed to be perfect. And I am willing to share mistakes and learning experiences as well as successes. I still have a lot to learn. Your description is “interesting” to say the least 🤔