Meshtastic Long Lines Relay Tower Station
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 มิ.ย. 2024
- Using 2 directional sector Antennas connected to 2 Heltec V3 radios atop a 50 foot tower, I attempt to create a Meshtastic high altitude relay station. The concept is based on the transcontinental AT&T Long Lines microwave relay stations.
Business enquiries please contact me here: contact@commandergateway.com
Comments. 1) please don't set the node interval to 5 minutes, it's unnecessary and in newer firmware you can't go lower than an hour. When a node hears a packet from a node it doesn't know, it will send it's node info and request nodeinfo from that node. 2) please run the 2.3.X firmware it has many improvements for keeping channel utilisation under control, but also comes with one exciting benefit - which is a hopcount - but in order for everyone to benefit all nodes need to be on 2.3.X if you are on 2.2.X and everyone else is on 2.3.X they won't see the hop count if any packet passes through your relay.
I have a mate that recently said, “We aren’t very good at planning for success, are we?” It stuck in my head as we were talking about how mesh networks don’t scale very well.
That’s the best guide on flashing the firmware. Most guides rip through the motions so this was great. Thank you.
Thanks, I just try keeping it real.
Though you should note you don't have to delve into the Bluetooth settings like this person did to pair - you just press the very very visible + button on the bottom right of the screen
I love the “Long Lines” title! I’m a telephone enthusiant (phone nerd), and I think it’s awesome that you’re using the same name AT&T did. Keep up the awesome work.
Glad you like it!
LOL "Road Trip from Toronto' was me.
Tell us more about your trip!
It was just a drive from Brampton(not really toronto) to Buffalo for the day. Didn't pickup much really. Nothing at all in NY state but1-2 blips from the QEW. Otherwise it was pretty quiet on Meshtastic nodes.@@peterfairlie2296
Well one of those blips on the QE must have been me.
BE AWARE!
Always have antenna connected before setting the frequency. Radio chip might get damaged when tx is active with no antenna.
Keep coax cables as short as possible and use as few connectors as possible. Both are attenuating signal that is quite weak in the first place, so keep that in mind when going for the ultimate range.
Good video!
YES is important . Antenna is mandatory.
Awesome video, I would suggest connecting an antenna before flashing to ensure you do not damage the Helte
Instead of adding _more_ LMR 400 as you mentioned, I'd consider reducing the length of what you already have there. The shorter the better, especially with that weak signal to begin with.
Great video, thanks.
Great how to video. Happy Easter, God bless.
Awesome video!
I'm always fascinated by your videos. Thanks for feeding my nerd brain. Keep it up dude! ❤
Glad you enjoy it!
Good change that the modules are somewhat broken.. you NEVER can power on the modules without antenna!
Thanks, Peter 👍
great job!!
Thank you! Cheers!
Good and informative video! Keep in mind that if you fire up the heltecs (or any other meshtastic device) WITHOUT an antenna connected it might fry the radio circuit.
You may want to ponder the idea of a small vent hole in the bottom of that box to drain the condensation that will always form on the inside of the box. Humid air enters the box through barometric pressure then condenses. The water tight seals will retain the condensate on the inside of the box. I have experienced this in the past with satellite TV systems.
My girlfriends mom goes shopping a ton so she always gives me dozens of silica packets and I'll use them to store around my guns and ammo and other camping equipment to keep dry, you think it would be cool to throw a couple fat silica bags with the unit sealed and change them out every few months?
@@hitman3531 I think it would be easier, quicker, and a lot simpler just to insure the vent hole was open.
Or, just put one of those small silica gel bags inside that box.
@@bobs1345 this post was written by a bug
@@hitman3531 The packets that you get in stuff are NOT fresh and not to be relied upon. You don't know their condition as you cannot see the color of the desiccant. They are cheap enough to buy new. BUT they are not a good solution because the retain the moisture, though it is in the packet, it is still in the box and affecting the humidity. A hole always works. I don't want to climb the tower every two weeks to change packets.
You are so much fun! I love all the nerd projects you do! They are all the things I wish I could do if I had more time and more money!
Thank you for letting me live my dream thu you hahah
Nice stuff Peter! Funny that you start messing with these the same time I am. Interested to see some of the fun stuff you do with them!
More to come!
Are you going to do a video of you sending some messages and how far it can repeat messages?
It's a shame the relay station will count as two hops. In busy areas, people often set max hops as low as 3 to avoid overloading the network. It's also advised not to set the beacon interval to a much lower value than the default in busy areas for the same reason.
Well I could have used just one Heltec and split the signal across the 2 antennas but that would cut the signal in half to each antenna so I figured this was the better way to do it. This is not yet a congested area too.
@@peterfairlie2296i was thinking about building something similar but with one yagi and an omni antenna, couldnt you split the signal and then fit both antenna splits with a booster? or fit the booster before the split and double the gain? Of course to legal limits
With 2.3.X we can set higher hops now, because the new hop counter allows responses to use the same hopcount that the packet arrived with, so if you receive a packet from a node with a hopcount of 5 and your limit is set to 3 it will respond with a limit of 5. If you receive from a node with a hop limit of 5 and the hopcount is 1 and your limit is 4, it will respond with a limit of 3. So it helps prevent unnecessary rebroadcasts
Amazing!
The GPS signal serial output can be split between the two or more modules! So it can be synced together for both time and location if you want!
Great idea! Right now only one of the HelTec's has GPS. I could wire up both to the same GPS!
@@peterfairlie2296 I was thinking this same thing. (I'm assuming, just split/double the TX line from the GPS to the RX's on the nodes)
If you're creating a static node, you can just quickly option to allow GPS position from your Android device and it will stay with the node. So you don't need to have a physical GPS in the system. It will continue to broadcast its location
You might want to reduce the cable length of the antennas. I think that makes a huge difference with low power, right?
Damn one of your msgs was 69km !!! That's AWESOME, Andreas would be proud 👍👍
Yeah it was very cool seeing Whiskey Sierra coming in from that distance. Things should get even better when I install the antennas at the top of the 50 foot tower.
@@peterfairlie2296 Oh, BTW, I really appreciate the amount of detail you cover in your video, most channels just assume everybody is already an expert.
The beginners can watch and learn and the experts can skip to the next chapter. You've got everybody covered 👍
@@edwardfletcher7790 Thanks Edward! 👍
Shout out to dingleberry what a legend 😂
Can't forget Burt the Racoon too. The 2 of them are best buddies and they drink lots of Molson Canadian together.
Your transparent case won't block the UV. The UV will damage your kit eventually. Pop some UV protective film over the inside (should not block your view too much) to mitigate the problem. :)
Thanks for the info! Q- How long have you had your relay station outdoors, and how did it perform during hot weather? How is the water tight box making out with sunlight? Thanks again m8!
hell yeah
If you are using a static node with that kind of antennas and pointed to an area with lots of traffic every packet that you relay will also"advertise you to the network so you should put your "nodeinfo Broadcast inteval" to a very high number to reduce congestion(like 1 hour or even higher), and instead, if you are a mobile device 5 min should be good.
By the way, always great videos
No. Do not set the node interval to be more frequent on mobile devices. Use Smart Position that is why it exists. There is never a reason to increase node beacon interval. (Newer firmware, and or up to date apps will reject anything below 3600 and set it to 3600 anyway)
Hello from the Windsor Ontario area what part of Ontario are you in I see you mentioned Toronto in your video just got into mesh tastic bought myself two v3 models
Welcome to the Meshtastic club. I'm just outside of Toronto in Mississauga.
Where did you buy those yagi antennas ?!!!
I have some 700 to 900 yagis but those look a lot better.
I want to buy those
Please provide a part number or link
Thanks
What SWR did you see with that log periodic?
Any follow up on the testing? I've been hoping for more info. Thanks!
Hi Corey, YES, I'll be installing this whole setup on my 50 foot tower in the coming week. Also will be doing a Meshtastic collaboration with Gabe over at the TH-cam channel Saveitforparts. We're going to try to do a long distance MQTT interconnection between our nodes.
Hello from Phoenix Arizona thank you for the video. Can you do all this on the Macbook Pro?
Yes, there is Meshtastic for iOS devices too.
It's a really cool idea but you somewhat overcomplicated it.
Why two power converters? One should be more than adequate for the current demands of both boards.
Why install GPS for a station with a fixed location? You can simply key the static coordinates into both units with the app.
Cool idea thought!
Very nice, but should have an antenna on, any time power goes into it
The transmitter is not on until you configure the region so it was safe.
I got those in pic 3 gfrequenchranges I think they work well on 1-6ghz aprox
A good tip is use buck converters for the 12v - 5v. They are much more efficient than the linear regulators and the same price or even cheaper because they are smaller due to less heat.
If I needed more current I would have used a DC-DC switching power supply. In this case the current is low at 400 mA and I just happened to have the LM317 linear power supplies. My backup power is a 3000 watt battery bank inverter so I have a lot of extra power.
@@peterfairlie2296 It's good to carry these buck converters in stock. You could probably buy a pack of 5 for 2-3 dollars. You can adjust the voltage they output and they are so small that you can just glue them to the side of the box with a glue gun. This will give you 1-3A DC at about 90% conversion efficiency.
@@peterfairlie2296did you measure 400 mA draw? That seems high, even if both were actively transmitting?
Is meshtastic text over Lora? If I r wanted to send Ito data can I use those helltec modules?
Yes, it's a private short message service system (SMS)
Links for equipment?
Very good .i have been looking at doing this but adding a 5 watt amplifier.
Just for testing to see what kind of range.
Also you might do better with rg316 .
Needs to be a bi-directional amp. Lots of helium boosters out there that should do the trick. How can RG316 out preform LMR400 ?
Any concerns about charging the lithium batteries below freezing ? That isn't supposed to be good for them. Maybe just use a lead acid agm for it ?
I don’t think lithiums can charge below freezing
Hey Peter, I got my meshtastic node lol. (T-Beam), and I didn't get any nodes as of yet, but I hope to discover more people lol... Recently got a more powerful antenna, so let's see!
Nice video once again dude.
There is one guy showing up on the MeshMap in Singapore called Cinnamon, so you are not alone Lee meshmap.net/#530708209
@@peterfairlie2296 Ooh awesome!
@@peterfairlie2296 oh wow! Cool!
are there good amplifiers that can reliably super power these antennas?....i wouldnt condone doing anything that breaks any sort of radio operation regulation but it would be good to know in case of emergency as meshtastic and radio operators might be the only comms left in some scenarios.
PS. Part list or part suggestion would be cool for what you have in the video.
Just using those antennas would break the regs in my country, but maybe the US is more liberal.
If you have your Amateur Radio license, you can run up to 10w on Meshtastic
@@SIMPLYSIMPLEXCOMMSSurely the normal USA frequency isn't a ham frequency?
@@BrianG61UK Meshtastic USA 915 Mhz. - HAM Meshtastic 433 Mhz.
I bought 2 Heltec devices with whip antennas. I'm in the middle of NO WHERE and am picking up masts up to 48km away. Now I want to build a solar repeater to extend the range where I live. How much range can I expect (at a high elevation) with an omni VS a directional antenna setup? I'd rather not have to setup up more than one station. Thanks!
Current Ground Record: 254km (158 miles) with omni according to meshtastic's site.
"Dingle Berry"
lol
I love messing with this stuff, especially when it's cheap stuff, but how much do you use the messaging? I have heltec set up and enable the MQTT and all I see is about 10 people saying "Hello"
Just keep it running. I have 72 other nodes being seen by my station right now. When I first started it seemed like I was all alone ... but not anymore!
Pretty sure you live like down the street from me lol, gonna be putting a meshtastic radio on my sailboat mast soon 👍
reach out to me at: contact@commandergateway.com
what kind N connector cable do i need to hook Heltec V3 with Wilson 314411 antenna? please advice! thank you!
The Heltec uses a female SMA connector. The Wilson 314411 uses a female N connector. I used a male SMA to female N bulkhead connector for my 'through the case' connection. Then I used a male N to male N cable to connect the antenna to the 'through the case' N connection.
If you just want to connect the Wilson to the Heltec then this will do: www.amazon.ca/Uxcell-Adapter-Coaxial-Pigtail-Cable/dp/B0192RATOI/ref=sr_1_9
If you want to do as I did then use these 2 cables: www.amazon.ca/Female-Bulkhead-Pigtail-Coaxial-Cables/dp/B0CYHB417R/ref=sr_1_13?
and
www.amazon.ca/Digital-Coaxial-Connect-Compatible-Extension/dp/B07V5YQVZB/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?
@@peterfairlie2296 thank you peter❤️🙏🙏🙏
Be careful bud. You'll probably want to put an antenna on before giving these power. It can fry the board.
Any reason use a log periodic instead of a Yagi?
Just what I had in my antenna inventory. VNA meter showed it was a good match for this application.
Should we not have an antenna connected EVERY time we power up a Heltec?
The radio is not active until the region code is entered.
Nice work! Thanks for the cool video. Is MESHTASTIC something where I can meet and text other hams or people, or is it only in case the end of the world comes and I have to tell my wife I'm going to be late for supper? Thanks!
Yes, Meshtastic lets you use inexpensive LoRa radios as a long range off-grid communicator which is not dependent on any cellular service. Every users radios become a mesh node and helps strengthen the mesh network relaying packets for other users. Everything is encrypted and and you can even set up private hidden channels.
Thank you. @@peterfairlie2296
Why bother with GPS? You can set a fixed location in the Meshtastic app. Is there some other advantage to having a GPS?
Well it's there so why not bother with it? It's all about experimenting and learning. The GPS receiver is the one recommended to use with the Flipper Zero. I discovered it works just as well with the HelTec even if it's not the one people are using with the HelTec's so I discovered something useful by playing with the HelTec GPS.
I was also thinking the gps not needed for a fixed location . But I understand it is good for experimenting .
what's that laptop model? that pattern is so pretty i wanna eat it
ms surface
I would of connect the antenna direct to the node, get rid of the coax you will loose power to the node .
Way to many connections and lengths of coax.
What's your mesh name? Were in the same area.
ZAP Meshtastic. & soon also HELTEC RELAY TOWER 1 & 2.
I have all your contacts, but don't see your node. I'm by yorkdale mall Norcon Node 1 and Norcon Node 2 are my nodes. Cool video.
If anyone has an adventure into Indianapolis be sure to give a welcoming shout-out to node 45dc.
You are using lmr 200 on that patch cable not lmr 400. lmr 400 would have less loss if you used but it's much thicker. cheers
It's stamped right on the cable "Times Microwave LMR-400"
@@peterfairlie2296 Wild. Just Google lmr 400 and 200. Maybe some technology has changed but my lifetime of RF the small stuff was always lmr 200. cheers
The next video I make I will show what's stamped on the cable.
@@peterfairlie2296 cheers
Is it 868 Mhz ?
915MHz center in USA (Channel 20 906MHz)
If you use one of those for a base station you can just set a fixed GPS position in software, saves a few bucks.
Yeah but getting it to work with the external GPS was cool to do and to document it can be done with a different GPS module then recommended. .
@@peterfairlie2296 Sure mate, no criticism, just a hint for everyone
Long Lines huh? I have some radio equipment on one :)
LPDA is not the best antenna type for this case, yagi with same dimensions will have higher gain.
Sure a Yagi cut to 906 would work better but at what cost? I had 4 of these Wilson antennas in my inventory. I did test it with the VNA and it preformed very well at 906 MHz the frequency used in the USA for Meshtastic. I was seeing a VSWR of 1.5:1 @ 906 assets.wilsonelectronics.com/m/6c6412171aba9bfd/original/Log-Periodic-Antenna-Spec-Sheet.pdf
Do you have a 43” Samsung tv in your bathroom?! So jealous! Haha
It's a large master bathroom so it needs it's own TV.
I think this is a great thing and idea. I thought about it. But the. Realized I don't think there's anyone within 120miles of me anyways to use it
Well you never know. When I first started I didn't think I'd pick up anyone.
Dude turned on the node without an antenna. oof
FYI without the region code set the transmitter is off.
Im CLY B2
Using an antenna with gain would, strictly speaking, mean you're breaking the regulations in my country. Maybe it's okay in the USA?
me personalty i want to disable gps :)
Never start a video without explaining what you're doing and what it is.
Watch my other Meshtastic videos for a better understanding ... www.youtube.com/@peterfairlie2296/videos