Jet Fuel Nozzles II - Turbine Engines: A Closer Look
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- Where and how the fuel nozzles fit in a J47 turbojet engine.
We clean, test and install them in this classic GE second generation American jet engine - the first with an axial-flow compressor.
Six of these engines powered the Boeing B47, America's first nuclear jet bomber and the mainstay Of Strategic Air Command until the coming of the B52.
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WHY???
Why did i have to watch this 2 minutes after i decided to go to sleep???
now i must watch all your videos because they are simply amazing!!!
Careful !! I'm pushin' 300...
Don't you just hate it when that happens?
I am not alone...
As an engineering student, I find your videos are very helpful in understanding turbine engine systems
it's incredible to think the people who built this engine have probably long since passed away, it's a good monument to their engineering skill and workmanship
As a pilot studying for my ATPL's all your videos help a lot! After spending 2 weeks reading how a turbofan engine works, and learning about all of the components, it is nice to finish off my study by watching your videos. Thanks again :)
Each time I watch one of your video I feel like a kid in a candy store, I find it extraordinary that you have access to all these jet engines, old or less old, and work with them and take the time to show & explain what you do with them. Your attention to details is second to none and I very much like your "talking". I think you could have been a good tech presenter at TV stations or else :-) So thanks you for your time
All the hairs on my neck are standing up, I really miss the equipment, smell and atmosphere of the workshop, some of the best times of my life, great people, great machinery, thanks you took me right back there!
I'm almost finished with my masters in aerospace engineering as a combustion engineer, and I never get to see the overall picture like this! I really appreciate these videos, even if they are of older engines (which I don't mind at all).
Wow! That engine looks new. Thanks much, JayZ.
Seeing the spray pattern really gives an impression of just how much fuel gets burned inside a gas turbine, especially considering there are multiple nozzles per engine.
That was only ONE of the fuel nozzles...and I must say...That was A LOT OF FUEL! Holy Cow now I understand why flight times are limited so much and also why we have in Air Refueling. Feeding these Monsters is a real issue. Thank you for showing us this it really explains a lot of things without saying a word. Nice Work Sir
I love how the USA label the parts back in the day..a plate with name/description of part, where it's made company name...perfect.
I hate to say it, but I like the simplicity of the older engines. Sweet nozzle testing set up, another very helpful video!
On the J-57s in the Engine Bay at CFB Chatham, we had a Plexiglas outer combustion case that we used to check the spray patterns of the fuel nozzles. The big problems on the J-57/JT3s were cracked in the welds on the defusser case, that cased the fire alarms to go off under full power, kinda tricky to find and a lot of time rewelding.
Did I forget to explain that we are coverting the -23 from a B-47 into a -27 fro use in a Canadair Saber 6...?
It's a Candian built F-86.
Nice, this gives a sense of the amount of fuel going through those nozzles! Amazing! The spray pattern is similar to those of garden sprinklers.
I've watched many of your videos and I always enjoy them and learn something new. Thank you for your efforts...
nice heli-coil work on those mounting holes , for the nozzles
Thx for the videos, these are more helpfull than textbooks ... :-)
absolutely fabulous, thank you
I'm trying to figure out your thumbnail pic. What is it?
+AgentJayZ It looks like a car headlight.
That is one of the ignitor plugs. Two of the six combustor cans have ignitors, and the flame travels to the other cans through the interconnectors, seen about a quarter of the way along the length of the cans.
Like a candle, once the flame is lit, the ignitors are turned off.
The J47 has an interesting ignition system, featured in " Jet Ignition 2 "
I wish lock wiring was always that easy!! ;) Across the top of the bolt just makes sense. Plus it looks cool. I vote to make that the industry standard! Keep up the great vids!
You are doing such a amazing job by sharing your knowledge
A tip on shooting the nozzle tests ... Dark background is a good idea, but light the spray from behind. That'll make it really pop. You see this trick used in Hollywood -- a rainy street scene at night will tend to have a bright light at the far end of the street pointing back toward the camera.
This was really insightful video... I am doing research on aircraft fuel atomization
wow lol...seriously one of the best beastings I've seen on TH-cam. Thanks for posting these videos, I can't stop learning from them!
Cool first plane mechanic channel I come a cross.
Cheers from France ✌️
Thanks. I learned a lot from your Videos. Hello from Switzerland 🇨🇭
These are not fuel injectors... They are not fuel injectors...
Fuel flow depends on fuel pressure, because these are nozzles, not injectors.
The fuel pressure must be in addition to whatever compressor discharge (air) pressure in in the combustors, and that changes in this engine from about 5 psi at idle to about 90 psi at full rpm.
The fuel nozzles contain no valve or means of controlling fuel flow.
The J47 system varies fuel pressure between 40 and 600 psi.
AgentJayZ how much fuel is burned at normal flight and is less fuel used when in flight? Trying to prove to someone with their “jet fuel hoax” saying jets don’t use jet fuel and he says it’s only used to ignite and then the engine uses compressed air ONLY during flight and that the plane carries no fuel in the wings lol!!!!
Love your videos you've help me so much with understanding jet engines like turbofans and Turbojets before didn't know the difference between a turbofan and a turbojet.understanding the lp compressor to the high pressure compressor thru diffuser compress ignited in high compressed air the hot exhaust turns the turbine the exhaust push the jet with incredible thrust while at the same time spinning the turbines helps the engine too spin at high rpm. And of course the turbofan his high bypass giving even more thrust I love jet engines especially the j 85 turbojet.thanks and keep up the good work cause I figure you do this in your own time again thank you
The hoses do take a set, and we try to reinstall them in exactly the original location and position. We could also replace them with fabricated hydraulic lines, which some owners don't want, or with OEM parts, which are nearly impossible to find and would be NOS anyway. In this case the lines appeared to be in good condition.
This is a great video, Ive worked on the F-100 Engine on the F-16 here in Norway.
I took my EASA Flightmechanics education here.
I`ll start at ATPL in september =)
AgentJayZ, thanks for covering this again. Could you show us running fuel through dirty nozzle to show the difference, and/or perhaps one that fails the spray test?
In A&P school we were taught to not torque the bolts past one click. It pushes the torque value higher, supposedly, but who knows
I know. And you know too. If you have skill and pay attention, more clicks does not increase torque. I proved it.
For a ham-fisted ape, each click adds to the torque, and working on any engine is not the best place to be.
yes , very informative and definitely enjoyable.
very interesting, shows how is the structure of a beak, as it is inside.
@mytmousemalibu The -25 is being converted to -27 configuration. The -27 may get some attention as well.
The Spey is an industrial, which is why it is smaller in diameter than expected. Keep in mind in this video the first stage of the compressor has been removed, so you're looking at stg 2 LPC.
I will do my best to be there and film the J79... everybody loves afterburners, right!
I like your engineering bro 👍
thank you boss From Bangladesh
Hey, great job! Enjoyed your video and the commentary.
Thanks.
This is really amazing
It’s enormous how big it is and credit to designer and how it’s built
How much fuel from 6 of these it’s pumping out in very short time
thanks for sharing,and wonderful as always! can't wait to see more!
How about placing the fuel nozzle in the glass box horizontally pointing so the fuel jet (the fuel jet of jet fuel...) hits one of the vertical glass panes? Then you can watch the pattern of liquid more precicely through the whole cross section of the jet. I just did that on a water spray nozzle used for cleaning an inspection window on a crusher. You can still see it from the side too.
Good job
And who are you giving your advice to?
...The engineers of the 1940s who designed this engine ?
They seemed at the time to be doing things just fine, since this is the most-produced jet engine in all of history.
By the way, they are not injectors, fuel does not become "oxigenated", nor oxygenated, and it would be more "eficcient" to pare your comment down to simply its first and last words.
thanks! awesome explanation and brilliant machines!
@dtoften You've already seen my other afterburner videos?
Another excellent video!
That is the best YT response I've ever read! AgentJayZ - 1, Max - 0!
Great video
This is great. Thanks for sharing.
Yes, it is taken from the fuel tank at our test cell.
@izaatmusic The only reason not to use an adjustable wrench is to avoid rounding off the edges of the bolts or nuts. When you round off the edges is can complicate the removal of such items, and it also promotes corrosion.
@AgentJayZ The J47 is a beautiful engine, the new one you guys have is spectacular in its new sheen... The whole turbine arangment is a bit odd. No stator? Those classic early jets never were real powerhouses. The B-47's had a struggling time taking off but still cool seeing smoky old jets! The Spey is pretty! Pretty good sized machine! Afterburners are man made thunder! There sonic crackle and their spectacular sight is music you can feel! A feeling thats just about addicting!
Really like the spray pattern video. It explains a lot about how they do it and how it looks. Newer nozzles mix air with the fuel, right? Mixed before spraying into the burn chambers?
Modern engines use very high fuel pressures to ensure that the fuel is highly atomised upon entering the combustors. Much of the improvements in fuel efficiency in more modern engines come from advances in combustor design and electronic fuel metering.
Although everything you say is right, it is not news to the viewers of this channel. This topic has been covered numerous times. Also, the old engines also used "very high" fuel pressure to ensure atomization.
Dude ur videos are amazing! I have learned so many stuff with u. Thank you for posting and sharing ur knowledge with us. 😀😀👌
Very Interesting videos. I would like to own a small torque wrench like that.
I do not miss safety wiring, I barely ever had to do it but when I did, if I wasn't stabbing myself I didn't have enough twists per inch.
We either replace them or not put them back on and send them back separately. Leave it to the customer for liability reasons. Those braided cloth hoses normally take a set over time and get real stiff. If bent too much can leak. I seen if happen to a guy.
@milesall1 This engine has 8 fuel nozzles and one old book says the total fuel consumption of the engine at max power (without an afterburner) is 17 gallons US per minute.
Kerosene has a bit more energy content per wieght than diesel, but it is more expensive. I don't know how the densities compare, so energy per gallon - ??
Don't know the metallurgy, but a properly designed combustor liner doesn't get that hot, so neither would the outer "can".
Thanks. I had wondered about the flow rate.
This you're getting the history of engine technology and from a B-47
Yes, we deal with old classic engines, with epic service history.. the likes of which are not seen in these modern times.
Yes that's why there are two spikes. On start fuel, there is less fuel, so that means less energy to spin the (really heavy) rotating parts. At a certain %rpm, main fuel is added and takes it up to idle. Jet engines are like a woman. Ya gotta warm 'em up slow, and give 'em time. Later they really go.
Fantastic job there Jay! You've upped the mark on this one! Absolutly amazing, thats alot of fuel! Its also fasinating that all that flame is contained in the combustor liners with that amount of fuel and this is an old and smallish turbine! Now its understandable how you get an oily coating from the exhaust of a running aviation turbine! What are the J47's destine for? You said one is from an F-86, is the new -25 a transplant or parts cadaver? Is the Spey an industrial? Cant wait for AB tests!
I slute You ....for share your experience
Love you from Pakistan
Awesome
Geez Jay, take an easy, you probably killed the guy
@izaatmusic and he only used the adjustable to hold the adjacent bolt and used the proper spanner to tighten the bolt
Excelente vid man, congrats!!
not your standard question, but what brand is that flashlight at about 3:10? I've used them before and I like them a lot as a shop light but my local hardware store doesn't seem to carry them.
Cool.
Good video.
Nice to the see it in testing. Not fussy on the cresent / thumb wrench on fasteners but we are all guilty. Are the fittings JIC?
Good job.
You're actually supposed to use MIL-PRF-7024 Type II calibration fluid to flow turbine fuel nozzles.
Nice use of jargon.
What do you mean "to flow"?
We are checking the flow pattern of fuel nozzles for irregularities, so fuel is a good choice to see how the flow of fuel might look.
So here we use jet fuel. Hope you don't mind.
3:28 nice welds
Do u have any injectors from a t10 Tierney turbine generator 3 of them can I use a diesel injector pump it is running off a variable speed electric fuel pump
Super información... thanks...
@packardnut The conversion from a -25 to a -27 is a bit more involved than it at first appears. Some critical parts are on their way, and I'm hoping to fire this screaming stovepipe up by the last week of April... fingers crossed.
The J47 has more combat flying hours than any turbine engine in history.
And you knew that Packard built a lot of Merlins, eh?
Thanks
awesome.
You have a ton of videos, and I have been trying to find one that addresses my question concerning water injected into the engine. I think that I understand why, but could you point out the video that is specific to this question? Thanks
JayZ - quick question what would happen if you feed the turbine with dirty diesel?
The sock filter over the in-tank boost pump will catch it. Or hopefully the LP filter will keep it out of the fuel pumps. Or maybe the HP filter will keep it out of the fuel control, but it's actually coarser than the LP.
If all that fails due to excessive contamination or maybe neglected maintenance, the "last chance" screen in each fuel nozzle is finer than the nozzle orifice.
If all that get totally plugged, and somehow some shit gets into your fuel nozzle and stops the flow, and your engine flames out, and you start going down... know for sure that your careless ass deserved it.
Silly question, bit what is that manual wrench called that sort of looks like a hand drill? I'd like to get one for mechanic work. Would be very handy for getting into tight places, which on a car is pretty much everything.
It's called a speed handle, and is made by many tool manufacturers.
@@AgentJayZ Thanks, mate! Again sorry for the question, I know there are no stupid questions, just stupid people. But it does not seem to be a common tool in the automotive world, and I'd love it to be.
JayZ, Does this engine utilize water injection ? Iv'e always wondered just where the injection takes place ?
Just been watching some TH-cam vids on Allison turbines the ones in jet rangers and I remember seeing this video on the 2 fuel circuits the starting and running is that why there is 2 peaks of the EGT when starting? And why it seems to spool up slowly after the fuel ignition to a point and then rapidly accelerate to ground idle?
OK. A trivia question. Why did the RCAF take on B-47 on strength in the mid-to-late 1950's? Look around the shop. You might see the answer.
Yeah, everybody here already knows that.
Fun fact: our Canadian-designed, Canadian-built engine... just one of them, all by itself (with all 6 J47s shut down), made that bomber go faster than it ever wanted to, and bent it up so bad, that when we returned it to the owners, they scrapped it.
Bing bang, lah-dee-dah!
How do you clean the nozzle? it looks brand new for its age.
What is that thing coming out of the combustor liner that kind of looks like an oxygen sensor on a car? Its best seen in the top right corner of the frame at 3:58 or so.
does this much fuel really come out of a jet? Why is so much nessecary?
Yes, many times this much, as it is only one fuel nozzle, and not at max pressure. Big power needs big fuel.
Those huge airliner engines have SFC about 0.3 That's lbs of fuel per hour, per lb of thrust.
So SFC times thrust, divided by 60 equals lbs of fuel burned per minute. Divide that by about 8lbs per gallon, and you have gallons per minute... per engine.
why would they need two pipes for fueling the fuel nozzle, if there is one kind of fuel used?
The nozzle has two separate orifices. The one for starting is very small, for good atomization at low pressures, and a wide spray pattern. The Main flow orifice is for all power settings above starting, and has a narrower spray pattern. Each system is fed by it's own fuel line.Some duplex nozzles contain a pressure sensitive valve. These don't. Designed in 1947, these were the earliest days of jet power.
thank you for explanation. But at the end of the nozzle there is one unregulated hole of certain diameter and form, whatever the orifice functions an outcome from nozzle is the same. It seems however that different fuels could be used for starting and for working cycles. I see no reason of installing two orifices for the same fuel.
Well, Mr genius, thanks for telling me what is not the actual case.
My apologies for not explaining that the starting orifice is a central hole, preceded with upstream swirler vanes, and the main "orifice" is actually ring shaped.
Sorry about that.
Better now, or are you going to tell me that doesn't matter either?
@@AgentJayZ thank you, doc, and sorry for taking your time. Peace, friendship and fiesta... ;)
Just out of curiousity...if fuel were of no concern, would the operator of the jet engine be better off using the petals to control the jet nozzle exit area instead of fuel flow to manage thrust? I wonder this because I'm trying to figure out how to manage acceleration in my diy jet engine, and fuel is not a concern (other than weight). I could meter in fuel like everyone else, or I could keep the engine at 100% power and adjust the jet nozzle area to "throttle" up or down. What are your thoughts
To run your gas generator at 100% at all times, and manage the thrust by varying how efficiently you convert the exhaust gases to thrust by modulating the area of the accelerating nozzle would give you the best performance possible.
But the main drawback to this method would be that your fuel consumption would always be at maximum.
So "if fuel was of no concern", this would be the best way.
Brilliant video, I have a question
is this a hole cone spray or not?
Are you going to light the burner on the J79?
Just to have an idea, how does the flow of fuel out out of the fuel nozzle like these compares to the flow of an average domestic shower head? Is it more or less about the same (in terms of liters per second)?
did you ever find a loose bolt saved by the lock wire ?
+Ovi Meron
Twice in my career I have seen that.
cool
Forgot to ask, is the other end of the fuel nozzle, is this some kind of air mixing arrangment?
It consumes a huge amount of fuel!
How much the maximum pressure of small as wel the large slot
Is that good for time machine build?
I am surprised you don't replace those hoses leading to the nozzles or do you leave it to the customer?
As the output power on this turbine depends on the injected amount of fuel, and it depends on the fuel pressure, I assume that in low power output, fuel atomization pressure is low and, drops of fuel are large, combustion, combustion is not so good and performance of turbine is low as well... My question, in modern turbines, is the same system for regulating the power? I mean, only through fuel pressure? or there is some variable orifice fuel nozzle or other system? thanks for your videos, I am watching all I can, and sorry for my English, I am spanish talking from Argentina! bye
Your assumptions are not correct. I suggest you read the 1st and 2nd chapter of any of the many excellent introductory books on gas turbine engines.
I can't explain it here...
Hello AgentJayZ and thanks for your rapid answer. I took the time to read "Rolls Royce the jet engine 5th edition" and on page 115 I found what I mean, called variable port fuel spray nozzle. this was depeloped because of at low fuel flow (low fuel pressure) combustion was unsatisfactory. Love your videos! keep in touch.
can rc jets fly as long as real jets since both jets work the same? if. how long can a rc jet fly?
hey buddy, neat video. I was wondering about the injector test, and if the J47 fuel system used 125psi.. or do you take it past operational specs for safety sake? what pressures do both starting and running phases operate at?