Star grounding is the key. All components plugged into the same power strip so the grounds are all together. By connecting the turntable ground to another element in the system rather than the star point is creating a ground loop as you said. Adding that pipe ground in addition to the outlet ground connection isn't really a good idea. I'm not sure what possible benefit it would have.
Hey Nack, the ground in my house is the Copper water pipe that goes through the foundation and into the ground. Every outlet in my house is grounded to this point, it is not another element. Sorry if that wasn't clear in the video!
I cleaned and "ripped" all my vinyl to FLAC files so they no longer degrade or collect new dust every time I listen to them. It's fun to keep the needle drop in the FLAC file for effect. Of course the warm compressed sound with track to track bleed, surface noise, wow, flutter, speed variation and occasional pop and woofer shaking rumble keep the turn table fun going.
Hey Nack, were you able to correct all of the compression, track bleed, surface noise and speed variation with processing or are the FLAC files an accurate representation of the LP? The responses to this video are enlightening, thanks for adding to the conversation. I actually want to dive into this topic in a further video, I think that the enjoyment of music on vinyl is a subject that is surrounded in hype, misinformation and polarized bias. Thanks for watching the channel!
I connected the ground of the phono preamplifier, my line preamplifier and the ground circuit for my Power amplifier to the water entrance. This serves as a ground plane for all of them. When I connected the turntable ground, it created a hum, so I disconnected it. I don't know why it works like that but I now have a quiet system!
Not sure what you mean, my entire electrical panel is grounded to the copper water inlet that goes into the ground...is there a different grounding system that is preferable?
@@davelistenstohifi normally you have a spike or plate from where the meter is attached to the house, there's a given distance as well from other properties Earth and any poles from the electricity on the street. a water pipe doesn't mean it's Earth necessarily or in the right place, you don't really want a potential from where the pipe is going in the ground to where the negative is going either you can get issues with electrical current passing along the ground from a neighbouring property or near a step down transformer. You could ask your local Electricity Board to check it shouldn't cost you anything.
Hey Jedi, the electrical code here says this is an acceptable ground: 4) Metallic water pipe as in-situ grounding electrode A metallic water pipe, conductively in contact with earth, is recognized as an in-situ grounding electrode. Based on the Appendix B note to Rule 10-102, in-situ grounding electrode is required to have a surface area contact with earth equivalent to that provided by manufactured electrode. A metallic water pipe system located at least 600 mm below finished grade and extending 3 m has traditionally been recognized as an acceptable in-situ grounding electrode.
Ground the turntable to the phono-preamp ... not a water pipe. There is no guarantee your electrical service is at the same ground potential as your plumbing.
Hey Douglas, thanks for your comment ! The electrical system is grounded to the water supply so thats why i tied this together. I had the tt grounded to the phono pre, but that gave noise. I disconnected that ground to get silence, which was unexpected and thats why i made the video.
@@davelistenstohifi Yes it is fine. In fact most equipment works best when "ground lifted" (aka floating). The idea is that only the receiver or integrated amp is grounded. The rest derive their ground references from it through your interconnects. This is called the "Star Ground" technique and it usually works best. But it does seem you have grounds at varying potentials in your system....
Thanks Douglas. The Phono Pre, Preamp and Power amps are all grounded to the same spot, so that may be what you are referring to. No noise now though so I think I'm good. Do you use any grounding boxes or special power products?
@@davelistenstohifi Nope ... not what I mean. I mean that the only device in your system with a ground pin in the plug is the receiver/integrated amp. The rest take their ground references from it via the interconnect shields. But if you aren't having 60hz hum ... don't worry about it.
Yeah... So lession one - water line is not good point for grounding... Two - if the turntable is grounded internally you can't ground it again in different place... Three - what's your power filtration? Any transformer? You have mentioned you are grounding everything - WHY??? Maybe ask your electritian for help - maybe your house have different standard... You were told to do so by oldschool dude? maybe house have new installation type and you have a ground in your outlet also?
Hey Seed, thanks for your comment! Can you elaborate on why the water inlet is not a good ground? My house is grounded to this point, i tied in the grounds of my components to this same point so everything had the same ground plane. No filtration, i just have 2 dedicated lines supplying my system.
It always amuses me to see that there are still people out there who believe that vinyl is a credible sound source. Nostalgia for old poor quality sound sources is strong in some people.
Hey RobCCTV, thanks for your comment! I think that you should seek out and listen to a high quality turntable set up properly, I think that your opinion would be different. I am actually amused that you think it is not a credible sound source ;-)
@@davelistenstohifi My background is in electronics. When I see people saying "I spent so-and-such on this turntable and it hugely helps the sound", I just know they are clueless about the distortion, the wow and flutter, and highly compressed dynamic range etc. etc. People try to impress others with how much they spent on turntables etc., but they don't like to hear somebody saying "the emperor has no clothes".
Not sure where you've been but this debate has been done to death. If you're not interested in it, don't listen to it, but you with your "background in electronics" doesn't make you an authority on the subject.
Hi RobCCTV, notice I didn't say 'expensive', I said 'high quality'. I think if you heard a high quality turntable set up correctly, you would not focus so much on the specs like distortion, wow and flutter, etc and notice how much beautiful music can come from this format.
@@davelistenstohifi No matter what the quality of the turntable, you cannot get away from the fact that vinyl is an INHERENTLY inferior sound source compared to digital sources. By fixating on 'quality' you are ignoring (and dare I say ignorant of, it seems) the fact that vinyl cannot produce the same signal quality as digital. It is literrally impossible. It is scientifically measurable.
Hello Dave. Not a great solution!!!! If there is a power surge, you could fry your turntable...and other poorly grounded equipment. A few possible solutions: 1 I had an electrician install a separate sub-panel with dedicated high quality electrical outlets for my sound system. The sub-panel appropriately captures the electricity from the main line and we also added its own grounding plate buried 4 feet into the ground. 2- get a specialized power conditioner and/our grounding box (Puritan Audio PSM 156 as reviewed by Steve Huff could do the trick) ; 3, if you are using cable internet and/or cable TV, the hum could also be coming from the cable connection. There are cheap cable isolation adaptors that you could buy that will neutralize that problem. Good luck but please, make sure all your expensive audio equipment is appropriately grounded
Hey alpro, the system is powered by 2 seperate circuits, but not an individual sub panel. The entire house is grounded to the water inlet, which is why i used that point. Ungrounding the tt eliminated the noise. Dont have any cable connected, the streamer is connected to a mesh router.
Nice, informativ, short, I had forgotten, you reminded me, thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
Star grounding is the key. All components plugged into the same power strip so the grounds are all together. By connecting the turntable ground to another element in the system rather than the star point is creating a ground loop as you said. Adding that pipe ground in addition to the outlet ground connection isn't really a good idea. I'm not sure what possible benefit it would have.
Hey Nack, the ground in my house is the Copper water pipe that goes through the foundation and into the ground. Every outlet in my house is grounded to this point, it is not another element. Sorry if that wasn't clear in the video!
the best way to improve any turntable is to throw in bin along with all plastic sheets you call vinyl and get a good DAC
Wow, thems fighting words! Ive been thinking about this lately, i should do a video...
I cleaned and "ripped" all my vinyl to FLAC files so they no longer degrade or collect new dust every time I listen to them. It's fun to keep the needle drop in the FLAC file for effect. Of course the warm compressed sound with track to track bleed, surface noise, wow, flutter, speed variation and occasional pop and woofer shaking rumble keep the turn table fun going.
No need for a dac whatsoever
Hey Nack, were you able to correct all of the compression, track bleed, surface noise and speed variation with processing or are the FLAC files an accurate representation of the LP? The responses to this video are enlightening, thanks for adding to the conversation. I actually want to dive into this topic in a further video, I think that the enjoyment of music on vinyl is a subject that is surrounded in hype, misinformation and polarized bias. Thanks for watching the channel!
Not unheard of, for some systems to sto humming when the ground is diconnected. No harm will come from this.
Yes, strange but true!
To what did you connect the extra ground wire from the water line?
I connected the ground of the phono preamplifier, my line preamplifier and the ground circuit for my Power amplifier to the water entrance. This serves as a ground plane for all of them. When I connected the turntable ground, it created a hum, so I disconnected it. I don't know why it works like that but I now have a quiet system!
That's good to know Dave, thanks!
Yes, i didnt expect it, but happy i have a quiet system again
Happy to share my experience !
why are you connecting it to the water pipe there's your ground problem. rca's are the ground or connect all grounds to it to the amplifier
Water inlet is the ground point in my house.
@@davelistenstohifi what you don't have a means Earth that's not very good
Not sure what you mean, my entire electrical panel is grounded to the copper water inlet that goes into the ground...is there a different grounding system that is preferable?
@@davelistenstohifi normally you have a spike or plate from where the meter is attached to the house, there's a given distance as well from other properties Earth and any poles from the electricity on the street. a water pipe doesn't mean it's Earth necessarily or in the right place, you don't really want a potential from where the pipe is going in the ground to where the negative is going either you can get issues with electrical current passing along the ground from a neighbouring property or near a step down transformer. You could ask your local Electricity Board to check it shouldn't cost you anything.
Hey Jedi, the electrical code here says this is an acceptable ground: 4) Metallic water pipe as in-situ grounding electrode A metallic water pipe, conductively in contact with earth, is recognized as an in-situ grounding electrode. Based on the Appendix B note to Rule 10-102, in-situ grounding electrode is required to have a surface area contact with earth equivalent to that provided by manufactured electrode. A metallic water pipe system located at least 600 mm below finished grade and extending 3 m has traditionally been recognized as an acceptable in-situ grounding electrode.
Ground the turntable to the phono-preamp ... not a water pipe. There is no guarantee your electrical service is at the same ground potential as your plumbing.
Hey Douglas, thanks for your comment ! The electrical system is grounded to the water supply so thats why i tied this together. I had the tt grounded to the phono pre, but that gave noise. I disconnected that ground to get silence, which was unexpected and thats why i made the video.
@@davelistenstohifi
Yes it is fine.
In fact most equipment works best when "ground lifted" (aka floating). The idea is that only the receiver or integrated amp is grounded. The rest derive their ground references from it through your interconnects. This is called the "Star Ground" technique and it usually works best.
But it does seem you have grounds at varying potentials in your system....
Thanks Douglas. The Phono Pre, Preamp and Power amps are all grounded to the same spot, so that may be what you are referring to. No noise now though so I think I'm good. Do you use any grounding boxes or special power products?
@@davelistenstohifi
Nope ... not what I mean.
I mean that the only device in your system with a ground pin in the plug is the receiver/integrated amp. The rest take their ground references from it via the interconnect shields.
But if you aren't having 60hz hum ... don't worry about it.
Yeah... So lession one - water line is not good point for grounding... Two - if the turntable is grounded internally you can't ground it again in different place... Three - what's your power filtration? Any transformer? You have mentioned you are grounding everything - WHY??? Maybe ask your electritian for help - maybe your house have different standard... You were told to do so by oldschool dude? maybe house have new installation type and you have a ground in your outlet also?
Hey Seed, thanks for your comment! Can you elaborate on why the water inlet is not a good ground? My house is grounded to this point, i tied in the grounds of my components to this same point so everything had the same ground plane. No filtration, i just have 2 dedicated lines supplying my system.
It always amuses me to see that there are still people out there who believe that vinyl is a credible sound source. Nostalgia for old poor quality sound sources is strong in some people.
Hey RobCCTV, thanks for your comment! I think that you should seek out and listen to a high quality turntable set up properly, I think that your opinion would be different. I am actually amused that you think it is not a credible sound source ;-)
@@davelistenstohifi My background is in electronics. When I see people saying "I spent so-and-such on this turntable and it hugely helps the sound", I just know they are clueless about the distortion, the wow and flutter, and highly compressed dynamic range etc. etc. People try to impress others with how much they spent on turntables etc., but they don't like to hear somebody saying "the emperor has no clothes".
Not sure where you've been but this debate has been done to death. If you're not interested in it, don't listen to it, but you with your "background in electronics" doesn't make you an authority on the subject.
Hi RobCCTV, notice I didn't say 'expensive', I said 'high quality'. I think if you heard a high quality turntable set up correctly, you would not focus so much on the specs like distortion, wow and flutter, etc and notice how much beautiful music can come from this format.
@@davelistenstohifi No matter what the quality of the turntable, you cannot get away from the fact that vinyl is an INHERENTLY inferior sound source compared to digital sources. By fixating on 'quality' you are ignoring (and dare I say ignorant of, it seems) the fact that vinyl cannot produce the same signal quality as digital. It is literrally impossible. It is scientifically measurable.
Hello Dave. Not a great solution!!!! If there is a power surge, you could fry your turntable...and other poorly grounded equipment. A few possible solutions: 1 I had an electrician install a separate sub-panel with dedicated high quality electrical outlets for my sound system. The sub-panel appropriately captures the electricity from the main line and we also added its own grounding plate buried 4 feet into the ground. 2- get a specialized power conditioner and/our grounding box (Puritan Audio PSM 156 as reviewed by Steve Huff could do the trick) ; 3, if you are using cable internet and/or cable TV, the hum could also be coming from the cable connection. There are cheap cable isolation adaptors that you could buy that will neutralize that problem. Good luck but please, make sure all your expensive audio equipment is appropriately grounded
Did you notice the rega tonearm?
Wrong. There is no threat to your equipment.
Hey alpro, the system is powered by 2 seperate circuits, but not an individual sub panel. The entire house is grounded to the water inlet, which is why i used that point. Ungrounding the tt eliminated the noise. Dont have any cable connected, the streamer is connected to a mesh router.
Not a Rega, its an origin live but i think they built it from modified Rega parts.