I think the departure from trucks being work vehicles and making them into luxury vehicles was a huge part of the issue. Like you said, get back to value.
As much as I like pickup trucks and I have my little Ford Ranger from the 1990s which is an appropriate size for me I think many people lost the plot anyhow on what it means to own a pickup truck. Too much tech and luxury and all this stuff and yet they never use a truck as a truck. Now it pains me when someone beats the hell out of a truck because they are a douche but if ya buy a truck and never use it as a tool on it's basic level its a waste of space and fuel and car insurance costs. And with how stupid people drive these days some don't deserve to own a pickup. Secondly the obsession with people feelings like they have to or they are entitled to just have the newest truck with all the features pisses me off. And in the long run like their old truck that was simple and reliable they still don't take care of it. When I don't drive my Ranger I commute in my Camaro. It's more sensible for daily use. Also I love my Ranger because it is not high tech. I even have roll down windows and I'm happy about that. 237,000 miles and they haven't failed yet.
I would love to buy a new truck. My truck now is a 2013 was $32,000 for a quad cab 4x4 5.7 liter Hemi. I have 150,000 miles on it now and still running good. I will maintain it until I die because trucks are ridiculously expensive. Ben is correct. Not going to pay these prices and I hope they loose everything with these ridiculous prices and these piece of crap V6 turbo charged things their trying to pass off as trucks. 11:40
Nailed it! The other problem is people that don’t use trucks for work started buying them. My friends that work in an office all have pickups pricing the people that need them to make a living on the outside. Most guys I work with are driving their old trucks into the ground because they can’t afford another mortgage for a new one.
Many buy pickup trucks because it makes them feel macho, and never actually use them as a truck. This is why 4 door trucks are common now, people want seats, not bedspace or tow capacity. A truck fancy bed cover is s good way to determine spot someone who doesn't "need" a truck.
They turned trucks into giant vehicles with the interior of a Cadillac that working people can no longer afford - the exact opposite of what they need to be. It's the maker's own fault. Then add some Dealership greed into the equation.
With all the events going on in the world, you’re wondering how this is emblematic of a tortuous disconnect from reality that’s going to defeat itself and us from getting anywhere
What's sad is they could have done both at the same time. No reason at all they couldn't have kept base model trucks at around 35-40k and then also offer fancy trucks for 70k+ that they still would've made plenty of profit off. They saw pickup popularity jump and got greedy.
Unreal how people convinced themselves that they needed pickup trucks to drive back and forth to their overpaid white collar office jobs. Seems many want to feel like they're getting ready for some big project with never having done anything close to construction. or hauling related. Then they want to complain about gas prices, maintenance costs, their payments, and that things are getting really tough for them. Only in the US of A could such delusion exist.
They always have cheated consumers with Luxury vehicles to disguise its value beyond actual service. A Cadillac has always been same as a Chevy, with slight design differences, leather seats and a hood ornament added. Ka Ching! Still doing it.
The core pick up buyer needs it to haul, run reliably, have comfortable seats, and needs to be able to get it dirty once in a while, and not cost more than a house.
Go for a drive. 95% of the trucks you see are not being used as trucks. People want huge trucks that are very very expensive. It is an image thing in the US.
Oh I know it’s an “ego-driven keeping up with the joneses” image thing for a lot of people. My point was that not everyone wants or needs or can afford an “image” truck, and the “image” version were all the dealers had for a while. I don’t feel sorry for the dealerships that are upside down because they went for a lot of image trucks only and weren’t giving the buyers much of a choice.
Reliability should be top of the list, not tech heavy luxury.. There’s a huge industry out there doing big dollar re-builds on older model pickup’s. Less tech, more reliability. I’ve personally got a 2006 LandCruiser that I bought new, should last the next couple of decades with only basic (and regular) maintenance. It’s extremely low tech, just power windows and a CD player. But Toyota builds them for a 25 year lifespan in 3rd world countries. I absolutely love it and will be keeping it for the long term. When I’m out on the road I always get people asking me if I’d like to sell it. These modern vehicles with smaller displacement engines and lots of boost will never last the distance.
I'm really disappointed in Toyota for jumping on the turbo bandwagon. If you're buying a new full size 4x4 you probably don't care about getting an extra 1-2mpg city over a N/A V8 or V6 that much if it means sacrificing long term reliability.
@@mikesteelheart the EPA mandate ruined reliability for everybody. We, consumers, are the the one shouldering the cost. Not automotive manufacturers nor the Govt.
I drive a BJ 60 diesel several times à week locally. Probably gonna park it for real cold months now. Bit of maintenance easily done myself. No $1200 à month payments
I can still remember my 5th grade teacher on a single income, show the class her brand new Cadillac that she had just purchased for $6 thousand dollars. That shows just how bad the Federal Reserve Corporation has destroyed the economy for the average person in my life time alone.
Someone finally hit the nail on the head with the truck market. Pretty much listed every reason I'm still driving my 2012 xlt F150. It was affordable, didn't have a bunch of junk on it, good build quality and it has been extremely reliable.
Your 2012 wasn’t really affordable, at least to the older generation that remembers buying trucks for 1-3k. I guess you don’t remember the older generation complaining back then about vehicle prices much like current generations are.
@Bonanzaking I wish trucks were still priced like the 1950s along with many other items. But I'm realistic, prices will go up based on many factors. I'm willing to pay what the market demands IF the product quality is there. All things considered, my truck was a great deal at the time. These new trucks, no. I might consider paying current prices IF they could guarantee 100% build quality and no issues for the next 20 years. Unrealistic? Yep, but so are the prices even considering discounts for the current new trucks.
@@Bonanzaking You mean when minimum wage was $3.75/hour? Interest rates were in the double digits? I still don't understand why a car needs a computer or why you have to tear half the engine apart to change a water-pump or an alternator? Back when I was a kid we did most of the work on vehicles ourselves. Today, we pay $100+/hour for a task we used to do ourselves. That's why I switched to an ebike and transit. Reliable, and easy to maintain and repair. Vehicles with internal combustion engines are inefficient and expensive.
I agree with most of your points but there's an issue rarely addressed by anyone reviewing "overpriced" consumer products. They arent more expensive - your Dollar buys less. It's been devalued by intentionally insane money printing in the US. Coincidentally, you mentioned 2010 truck prices. What went into overdrive around that time? Modern Monetary Theory, Quantitative Easing. May sound like a political rant but it's true.
@@RockCh4lkthe "FED" was around eons before JB and it yas Always coddled well healed "CONservatives" that's how we got here......using him is a simpletons excuse.
Even if EVs didn't exist, pickup prices would be right where they are. Interest rates were too low for a decade and a half - and businesses from banks, auto manufacturers, and dealers all perfected the art of hiding true costs from consumers and focusing on the monthly payment - pushing ever more costly products and services. And they all got greedy when the pandemic limited supply. Now that the days of easy borrowing are over, too many companies have forgotten how to make a modest profit by selling reasonably priced goods. Today's pickups are too big and aimed at too many people to be affordable at normal interest rates.
Looks to me like a lot of that money goes for exorbitant managers' salaries and bonuses, advertising, and recall repairs. Not to mention obsolete manufacturing practices and allowing horizontal integration of parts suppliers. I remember when that big earthquake hit Kobe, Japan, and knocked out a single blast furnace that produced the steel for 60% of the world's valve springs. I understand it is at least that bad, maybe worse, for fuel injectors, and there are a lot more examples. A far cry from the Ford River Rouge plant, where iron ore, coal, and other basic materials went in one end and finished Fords came out the other end.
Bingo. Because the more EV's automakers sell the more they lose. So if they sold 100% EV they'd be 100% out of business. Until they come to the federal government, meaning you and me the taxpayer, to bail them out, again. "Too big to fail"🙄
@@JasonEDragon You aren't wrong but EV losses are definitely part of it... When a department of your business is losing billions of dollars you look elsewhere for money and the truck market was it.
When I ordered my truck in 2005 it was 19K. I put $1K down to order and then when I picked it up I put another $9K down. The dealer about fell over. I was ONLY financing 9 Thousand? Had it paid off in 18 months.
a $40,00 loan will have $10,000 in interests rates how many people can afford a $800 a month payment plus insurance and most only commute 3 to 5 miles from home not worth it
When you look at the inventory it is all crew cabs with high end trim levels. If you want a Ram quad cab longhorn with just a few options on it, you have to search far and wide. Dealers stocked up on the wrong stuff.
Just bought a Honda Ridgeline. Listed for 48k, out the door 42.9k. Black edition. Fairly loaded. I know not a real pickup but much more reasonably priced.
In 2021 ypu could get a platinum or 1794 tundra for 56k. The 2022-Present cost that or more for a base SR5 with cloth interior. Back in 2018 i took my brother truck shopping. We had talked a brand new tundra 1794 down to 49k. He ended up getting a titan pro4x with every option including heated amd cooled seats, 360 cameras (the tundra didnt even offer this until the 3rd gen came out). Out the door TT&L was right at 50k.
There are cheaper pick-up trucks out there, and smaller handier ones too. However, they are not in america, because being foreign built they attract the "Chicken tax" a tariff of 25% on light truck imports, the US makers have had no competition in pricing for 40 years..
Every vehicle sold currently has more computers in it than your average office. They are now connected to the manufacturer via their own cellular link whether or not you into their remote communication network. This will allow them to offer certain options to function (or not function) based on a subscription that will be billed on a monthly basis. Your car has heated seats but you will have to pay a monthly premium in order to use them.
And the one thing you need to mention is , the quality needs to be improved substantially!! Paying that kind of money 💰 for any vehicle,it should last more than 100,000 - 125,000 miles before it starts self-destructing!!😢😢🙉🙊🙈💥poor quality control , poor engineering and too much outsourcing!! For a pickup truck, I feel basic is better!!
Pickups were meant to be work vehicles and not just transportation. If you get back to that philosophy, I think that reliability and value could possibly return.
Well done, Ben. The average person can no longer afford a basic truck in today's market. Pickup trucks used to be the cheapest option for a working man and were work trucks not $70k luxury vehicles. The big 3 can choke on them before I buy one!
This isn't just the truck market collapsing, it's numerous markets. Look at the trucking industry. 100 year companies going out of business. A depression like that of the 1930s is upon us right now
Trucks are too tech heavy today, in my opinion. When I see all the tech in new trucks all I see is things that will beak, I guess I’m officially old!😂 I wouldn’t want to keep them longer than the warranty that comes with them. I wish trucks were made with more basic interior packaging, I hate the giant screens with endless menus to scroll through when a simple knob would be faster and easier… I would like to be able to get the upgraded exterior, with a basic interior. I’d rather a truck that was built with ungraded suspension, better transmissions and engines instead of buttons, and screens, and leather everywhere…
Agreed. Just too much on the newer trucks that I don't need. Owned 2 trucks over a period of 26 years (1987 -1997 & 2001 - 2017). Great value on both. I'm just not seeing the value today. There will have to be a collapse in the market for me to consider anything, but I'm still reticent due to all of the gadgets.
In 2013 I bought a used 2012 Ram 3500 diesel with king cab and 4WD that had 19K miles for $42K. It already had a gooseneck ball installed and brake controller installed that I need. I still have it and will hold on to it as long as I possibly can. The current prices for new are absurd.
My dealership has discounted by 25% and consumers still aren’t buying. The last Ram we sold was 3 weeks ago and that was a used Tradesmen. Our banks/lenders have gotten tougher as well.
Honestly to me most of the pickup trucks are useless. I don't need 2 rows of seats and leather interior. One bench seat and a large bed. (the beds are useless these days). No point in owning one unless you are towing. I can honestly load more in the back of my 2005 Grand Voyager (with seats down) than in the bed of today's trucks.
I got approved for a 2021 chevy trailboss used back in July- was $44,000. I had to pass on it because the payments were $1200 a month. Couldn't afford that. It's still at the dealer lot and I saw now it's $46,000. crazy. I'm still driving my 2010 silverado LTZ. Probably will drive this for another 10 years. And see how the truck market is down the road.
@@lmtada I would get some of the parts that might be scarce in the future and store them for future use in case of “no long available “. ECM comes to mind. Just my $.02 worth. I have a gently used’05 Tundra that I want to hang on to.
I just put a Brand new Cummins Diesel in my 2005 2500 Dodge/Ram. It cost me like $13,000 but worth every penny because the truck is still very well equipped and I love it. I would do it again too with these skyrocket and ridiculous prices today.
Thanks for addressing this issue. Would you consider talking about the lack of available extended cab pickup trucks? If one needs a truck to actually do some work, a 6 1/2' bed is preferred. The F 150 is no longer offering the Lariat in supercab versions and the XLT in supercab is very hard to find. It seems that the manufacturers are all opting to produce the large 4 door cabs and almost all of those are 4 wheel drive. I currently have a 2018 F150 XLT supercab two wheel drive with 6'8" bed and 3.5 liter ecoboost, i love it! I would have already traded for a new one if Ford hadn't been so greedy, opting to produce so many supercrew trucks to maximize profits. Even Toyota has followed suit. The Tundra with 6 1/2' bed, two wheel drive and what they call double cab are also hard to find. The execs have ignored the needs of consumers like myself.
Today, half-ton pickup trucks are cultural symbols in the US, and not designed for work. There's more work being done with beater minivans with the seats torn out than with F-150s.
I feel your pain. I have been looking for either an extended cab F-150 or GMC Sierra 1500. I think I have settled on GMC Sierra with the 3.0 Duramax and have located about ten trucks within several hundred miles of here I live... I would say at most of the large dealerships that have 100 trucks maybe two of them are an extended cab.
I have that Tundra that’s becoming rare on the road. Every couple of years it gets maintenance at the local dealer, and they offer to buy it every single time it comes in. Reliable is an understatement, but it never got great gas mileage, but everything is great, a nice truck in it’s day, the only luxury one on the lot without leather seats, which I didn’t want. The fabric is fantastic! No, I’ll most likely die with this 2002 Tundra and the 1990 Stallion Fiberglass horse trailer. They are both great! (even though they look smaller and smaller every decade, next to those beefy boxy toys with all the whistles and bells).
Best advice buy a 10 year old camry or corolla. If you MUST have a truck best bet is a rust free from Southern Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, some parts of California, and some parts of Florida. Hopefully with a straight 6 from the 90's
I own an old PU. Don’t drive it unless I’m hauling, etc. Gas is expensive. So many trucks driven by people with ego issues. I dread getting hit by them. My pet peeve is the same people lift and add oversized tires but don’t readjust their headlamps! Not cool and dangerous to oncoming drivers.
Cars & trucks are just way too expensive right now. I do believe the auto makers are pricing their vehicles so high to cover their losses from making EVs. Pretty soon they will be forced to drop prices and offer really good incentives to help move the cars off the lots. The dealers have stopped taking new vehicles because they can't sell what they have. The economy is on shaking legs right now so one of the worst things you can do right now is to take on a new set of payments.
I'm in the market for a pickup. Here is what I'd like to buy in a basic work vehicle: 4X4, large displacement straight 6 (no turbos), 8 foot bed, high payload, minimum 10K lb towing, extended cab with space behind the front seat mainly used for concealed and safe storage, and tow hooks up front. This truck would be used to service works sites with hauling and towing duties. No leather, no heated seats, no heated steering wheel, no carpet on the floor, no 14 inch display, no 'soft' plastics up front. In my mind it'd feel like my 2014 FJ - rough and ready.
@@omardevonlittle3817 Well they presently do have turbos but I am sure someone could stick a non turbo straight six diesel in one that could easily pull 10K. I am sure they could do with gasoline also. IF they wanted to.
Ford used to build a straight 6 that would do the job. Here is a cut from wikipedia. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_straight-six_engine The 300 cu in (4.9 L) six was first offered in the F-Series for 1965. It is essentially a 240 cu in (3.9 L) with a longer stroke of 3.98 in (101 mm). The two engines are nearly identical; the differences are in the rotating assembly and combustion chamber sizes in the head (the heads are interchangeable). It produced 170 hp (127 kW) (gross). The 300 became the base F-Series engine in 1978 at 114 hp (85 kW) (horsepower number changes due to Ford switching to net power ratings in 1971). Power outputs were increased to roughly 122 hp (91 kW) during the early 1980s, before fuel injection was introduced. This became the primary engine of the line, eclipsing the 240. Unlike the Falcon engine, it featured separate intake and exhaust manifolds, which could be easily replaced with aftermarket manifolds offering the promise of even more power, through the installation of larger carburetors and a higher flowing exhaust system. Also during the late 1960s and early 1970s, the 300 was used in larger vehicles such as dump trucks, many weighing into the 15,000 lb (6,804 kg) to 20,000 lb (9,072 kg) range. These engines were equipped with a higher flow HD (Heavy Duty) exhaust manifold and forged crankshafts and rods since the engines were going to be constantly working in the 3,000-4,000 rpm range. These rare yet effective manifolds had a much higher exhaust flow rate because many of these engines would spend hours at 3,000 rpm or more. Due to their straightforward and high flowing design, enthusiasts often seek these manifolds out because they allow turbochargers to be easily retrofitted to the engine. @@omardevonlittle3817
agreed! nailed it. I dont ever see them every lowering MSRPs again , they will just need to push incentives when things get really bad like they are now.
I think you're right. I believe the automakers will start to wise up and make certain things standard on vehicles. For instance with trucks, they'll reduce options and make everything standard per trim, similar to what Honda does. They won't reduce MSRP, but will start the incentives deep once again.
They abandoned their established client base and tried to sell luxury trucks to rich people who thought it was trendy for 5 minutes. What did they expect to happen? The manufacturers should fire every idiot that advised them that was the way to go.
They did this to themselves! Our board meeting this past week had some surprises. One of those was vehicle replacement. We were set to replace 5 service trucks, but the availability at prices we projected last year for the budget, aren't possible. We put it out to bid for 10 dealerships. Regular cab base model trucks just aren't in stock or being made in some cases. We were also supposed to replace 3 admin vehicles, mine being 1 of them. Same issue, base model economy cars are a thing of the past. Budget constraints + sketchy economic forecast = we'll keep running them for a minimum of 1 year, probably 2.
Just get a rental/lease contract with a company like enterprise. Especially if you’re a small company. It’s cheaper to rotate a fleet and they do the maintenance and repair.
Where I worked we had a fleet or sedans (Ford 500 & Taurus, GM Malibus, and one Toyota Camry) for use in going out to job sites. Something about 'buy American'. Without fail the Ford and GM cars had major problems around 100K miles, but the Camry just kept going with normal maintenance. We replace the GM and Ford cars with Camrys. When I retired that old Camry had 160K miles on it and was still going strong.
@@crosslink1493 160k is nothing, Im pushing over 360k miles in a Subaru and it shows in the paint. No wonder US car manufacturers need constant $500k billion bailouts and the only people showing up for Joe Bidens victory speech are Ford Trucks any1 a bit mechanically inclined knows exactly why US car manufacturers need Taxes to bail them out. Buy a truck Dont buy a truck. Either way FORD is paid and in the shade.
The last time I shopped for a Tacoma, probably 10 years ago, I decked out 4 wheel drive four door was about $23,000. I shopped for one this year, it was $43,000. Nope, not this guy. And that was an SR 5, not many options.
I’ve been researching the dependability aspect of new trucks for a month now and so far I’m afraid to buy any of them. From what I’m seeing they all are having not just issues but MAJOR drive train issues with either the engines and or transmissions. My 06 2500 dodge only has 85000 miles on it so I’ve about decided I’ve got a better truck than anything being produced today and since I was planning on keeping it anyway I’ve decided not to buy one of these new problem vehicles
@@mrmaster8884my 03 Silverado had 270k and worked great until I hit a deer doing 75. Now my current 12 ram 1500 has 240k and the engine runs great. Of course it gets spendy doing all the upkeep on it, but if you replace parts when they should it runs forever. Just now looking at getting a 15-20 ram to replace the older one.
@@mrmaster8884 oh I’m keeping it whether I buy another on or not. I was just gonna buy a mid size while I’m still working. I’m getting long in the tooth and wanted a newer model so it would be paid off before I retire and these kill switches become a reality. After watching reviews and mechanics talk I’m afraid of these new vehicles
Where are you doing this "research". Vehicles overall are more reliable than in history. Hell even in the mid 2000s a huge amount of vehicles were trash at 100K miles. Now 100K for any car isn't even a big deal.
@@drn13355 just pick a brand and model and type dependably and reviews, there are plenty of mechanics out there talking about the potential issues with them
Over the years, pickups have become bloated, bizarre, and overpriced. Truthfully, I miss my old station wagon. I could haul long stuff, out of the weather, or 7- 8 people in comfort. Pickups are flat impractical as a all-around vehicle.
Excellent video & topics! 100% correct on all accounts. 1. I am still driving my 05 ram 2500. Because a new one is too expensive. And hard to find in my area. 2. Also new pickups are not nearly as reliable as my old Dodge. 3. Move all truck manufacturing to righ to work states to lower prices. 4. If they can't do any of that build them in another country unfortunately.
I agree with your comment about moving operations to right to work states. The big 3 should shut down completely for a year. Reorganize and rehire non union workers like Hostess did! These UAW workers need to be humbled! I am proud to say that my truck and two cars are all non union made!!!
All the big 3 have plants in Indiana we are a right to work state but they continue with the UAW.We also have Honda and Toyota plants they are non union but you can't buy their vehicles any cheaper. I don't know what will it will take to change things but obviously we can't keep doing this.@@BigBadJohnDiesel
A decade of ridiculously low interest rates, longer and longer loan terms, and easy loan approval increased the demand for expensive trucks. A pandemic shut down closed almost everything worldwide for a while, and global supply chain chaos caused chip shortages that only recently ended. Then at a time when trucks are at the most expensive they've ever been and manufactures finally caught up on the supply, the interest rates started climbing. The economy is slowing. The demand is dead. It no longer matters what truck buyers want. It's what they can afford. They can't afford $50,000 trucks at 10% APR's. The banks won't lend it to them anymore. Time for a market correction. This one is probably going to require some automaker bailouts, and there's going to be a lot of truck owners way underwater as the value of their trucks they bought in the last few years crashes.
I think the purpose of this is to force people to lease. The car companies want as many people leasing as possible, because it makes them more money over time. With high enough prices, the average person will need to lease (just like everything else: rent, subscribe, order to your door)
First, I disagree with the notion that you can't build a quality vehicle in America, not right to blame the workers for poor SW quality and a lack of detailed engineering at the automakers. that being said I am getting out of the truck market as they are WAY too expensive and get poor fuel economy. A replacement for my current RAM truck lease would be close to 1k/month which is ridiculous for a lease. You can still get a decent car that gets good fuel economy at a reasonable price (sub 40k) so that makes sense to me. I will miss the truck (a RAM 1500 is an awesome truck) but I can rent one for 20 bucks a day from Lowes/Home Depot) when I really need it.
If your lease is up you likely bought during 2020... I'd almost assure you its worth buying for the residual... the msrp on your truck has gone up as much as the yearly depreciation I'd bet. Buy it and sell it. Don't just give it back
Sometime in 2021, I watch local (SLC,UT) used car dealers add lift kits or leveling kits plus big tires and rims to nearly every used truck available, then jack up the price by $10k. That trend is still in effect.
Corporations are totally capable of doing what you suggest, they choose not to, putting the huge amount of profit in their pockets and their shareholders, putting themselves first, and passing the costs on to the consumer. They can keep their money wagons.
I have a friend who owns a very expensive GMC truck. Doesn't listen to anything one says. So one day I'd had it and walked him to the truck. We stood about 30 feet away with a side view. So I said: "Ok, now look at your 70000 dollar truck. " He answered "I am". I replied "no, you're not." He still didn't get it. The I explained. "Look at the part starting from behind the cab. What do you see?" He said; " The bed, wheels and huh...that's it" Yes! I said. How much do you think that rear part costs? Factory cost? That's when it hit him.Bed, two wheels, solid axle, brakes and lights. He developed a transmission issue about a month later and now drives a BMW X5 M40i (six cylinder) with a perpetual grin on his face. Btw, I was a passenger in the rear of that truck from Nashville to Chattanooga and back. I had to really keep my shyte together not to stop the truck and get out. The front passengers just replied, "oh! dad, we don't feel it upfront". For 70 grand. It's a grand con played on America that is ending. And I hope it goes completely to 0. Trucks for people that do stuff. That's it.
I live on a farm and need a pick up but the average Tom executive that works in town and parks in a parking garage doesn't need 4WD. I had to shop for a non 4WD truck the last time and the dealer told me 90 percent of their trade ins had never used the 4WD in their truck.
Everyone is tired of getting ripped off the new trucks aren’t worth what dealers ask an people can’t afford the payments an insurance Insurance is way to high also because the vehicle is priced so high. It’s bull crap
Spot on. I prefer value over heated seats or a fancy interior. I have two PU trucks now and a car. Both from the 1990's (the trucks). They are fine for what I do. If I want luxury i'll drive my Lexus. All I need a PU for is to pull my trailer (18ft open trailer) or haul something. I thought about a new Tundra but they are $82K with a turbo V6. Never purchase a turbo powered engine within a full size truck. Trucks need a powerplant that can not be overwhelmed by the payload. I suppose I'll keep what I have because I won't pay $80,000 for a pickup. Back when I was a kid (1960's) a light duty F-150 or 1500 (GMC) cost less than an average automobile. A 1969 Impala loaded was about $3200 and a Ford or Chevy with a V8 or inline 6 was maybe $2500. Just the opposite now. To hell with the manufacturers. If people need a 100 speaker Escalade (Tahoe frame) for $108K then they need to see a good shrink. It's sheet metal, plastic, aluminum, steel (very little of that), rubber, and glass and the Mexicans are making it for you. Enjoy the $1700 a month payments.
Good review Ben. There are two problems that come to mind for me that has led to this state of affairs ... easy money (remember Fed rates have been close to zero since 2010) which the truck makers used to tell the buyer that the truck loan is going to be at such a low rate that they can afford to buy a more expensive truck, by which they meant we can make more profit while you pay larger payment. Second, like @Bsbigbrain61 has stated, people who don't need trucks started buying trucks in place of cars ... I mean literally, I see people who are going to office drive these big trucks to basically an office job to portray an image perception ... why do you need a 5.7 V8 type engines that drinks fuel like water to go 10-15-20 miles to work when you're the only passenger on most days ... what are you carrying and/or towing besides your ego on the truck bed or behind you (sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's the fact)! The companies took advantage of human psychology and pushed their profits and returns to shareholders while the consumer got perception and high payments and long loan payment duration.
Us big bubbas need large vehicles. I'm 6'7" 320 and I NEED a truck to make driving livable to go to the office. If they made a car that fit me as good as a full sized truck, I'd consider it. But it's been a long time since anyone made a car with really good room. I had a Sonata for a while and the legroom was good, but the headroom was not. Used to bump my head when the road got rough. I did rent a hybrid Sienna earlier this year on vacation and the room was pretty good plus it averaged 36mpg, but when I went to look at them they are unobtainium new (dealer said 18 month wait) and the used ones are $35-$50K. With the ones in the mid-30s being ex-rental stripper models from Avis car sales that mainly had 50-60K miles. No thanks. So I guess for now I'll keep rockin my 2010 Expedition. Has 158K but runs good, mileage is crap, but I just try to drive it less. Started taking the train to work, it's about a 15 minute ride to the station and it's way more zen then driving in crap traffic. Plus it saves the money vs the toll roads here where I live. Costs me about $18 to drive to the office round trip with the gas and the tolls, train is $7 round trip..
@@JimBronson what you say makes sense. It seems it's in the interest of car companies that make trucks to move you to trucks because they have higher price points (larger revenue numbers) and better margins (higher profits), and thereby not make spacious cars that can work for a section of customers. I'm glad you're able to take the train and save on time and cost 👏; the car companies have consistently worked against public transport to keep us dependent on cars and they don't care if you spend hours on roads everyday going to and from work. Thanks for engaging in the conversation and responding with an aspect that may not come to mind.
Still have the sticker to my 2000 F350 lariat FX4 with v10. The sticker on that was 32k which is about 52k in todays money. Crazy that same thing would be about 70k
The only problem is......new trucks are selling like crazy despite the assanine prices the dealers and manufacturers know it doesn't matter...the only change coming is higher prices.
People seem to love big payments. It's like they don't know any better. Like the bigger the payments the bigger the bragging rights. It's just foolish to pay these prices period
Aside from the rediculous high price there is the idiocy of veering away from stuff that works ... straight V6 or V8 engines for example. Fewer electronic stuff maybe and less fancy schmancy stuff maybe, after all it's a truck!! And a decent low interest payment plan might get some attention.
Was at two Chevy dealers this week, both said they cannot keep 2500's on the lot, selling them as fast as they can get them in. Both said most buyers want the highest trim level available also. They said they don't see any big discounts coming on GM trucks any time soon.
Yeah which is exactly why these auto makers are offering Mercedes level interiors on a damn pickup and charging $100K for them. Because people want them and are willing to pay for them.
(2000) median income $32K (2023) $36K. (2000)$168K New Home (2023)$425K. (2000)New Car $22K (2023) $51K .source US Debt Clock. How flat wages are compared to housing and transportation are is scary 🏡 🚙
I sold Chevies and Caddies from 2005 to 2009, and can corroborate what you say about pricing "back in the day." Our selling price on Silverado work trucks was $17K (6 cyl, reg cab, longbed, 2WD.) Our selling price on a nicely trimmed Silverado LT was about $27K (X-cab, medium bed, cloth seats, 4WD, 5.3, factory tranny cooler and tow package). These were the most-commonly sold trucks. We had a few upper-end models with super-fancy leather interiors. So let's picture one of the mac-daddy models with everything. Leather seats, electric mirrors, you name it. With the 5.3L engine, the highest-possible list price would have been somewhere between $50K and $55K. You might have been able to knock $5,000 or $7,000 off that, by negotiating hard and waiting for rebate season. So absolutely, we had super-fancy trucks back then, just like we do today. We just didn't push them on people. What the customers wanted was the practical and affordable Silverado LT for $27K. This model probably accounted for 70 to 75 percent of our truck sales. It was a fine truck. It didn't have everything you wanted, but it had everything you needed. I haven't looked at new pickups in years. But as this tragic story emerges from dealerships across the country, I get that this type of truck at this type of price just ain't around anymore. Are Ford and Chevy really this stupid? Well, when you consider that they also abandoned sedans at a time when government edicts were about raise the price of gas -- maybe yes. Tragedy is right.
I see the same trucks on the dealer lots near me for months. 60+ grand F150's with the tiny little 2.7L four banger. 70-100K for the loaded ones! They shuffle them around the lot, sometimes hiding them to pretend inventory is moving.😂
Lol while I agree with your entire comment, just an fyi, ford’s 2.7 is a v6, chevy’s 2.7 is a 4 banger. But yes, I have seen the same thing here where I am as well
I have always bought base model trucks. I don't want all the bells and whistles in my pickups. I also want an 8ft bed. I use my truck as a truck. It hauls stuff, and tows my trailers. What I want, basically doesn't exist! The last 10 years I have been buying older trucks and rebuilding them. In the long run, I end up spending less, they're more reliable, and they don't rust in 5 years like the new ones do. My apologies to the UAW workers. You may have gotten the raises you wanted, but the new contracts will put the car makers out of business and/or move production to other countries.
If this advice is heeded then I and people like me might consider re-enter the new pick up or luxury suv market. I could certainly afford it but it’s just not a good investment just to look good. I need more value!!! Not more sheckles being drained and not more buttons that will brake and make the repair shop a big part of my life. The auto guys from top ceos to shareholders to unions have overreached and overestimated what their value is.
As a lifelong truck owner my occupation is construction. Can't live without one. I completely agree with your analysis. The last few years I've wanted to trade in my 2005 Lariat, but after pricing newer F-150's, absolutely no way. I'll keep my 2005 for now...
Here in Ontario Canada the market is identical to the USA. Good luck finding anything with 6’6” box. Everything is 5’5”. Rare to find extended cab all crews.
It is a manipulation of "options" by the manufacturers to maximize profit. It costs less to only produce one cab size, then they pack it with gadgets that increase the cost of the truck. I prefer the extended cabs but 90% of what is available are crew cabs. The few extended cabs I have seen are mostly barebones base models. It a choice of two extremes, and most people will not choose barebones. The Big 3 know this so they will do all they can to force you into the more expensive model.
Agree. Bought a lifted 2002 GMC Sierra 2500hd 4x4 8.1lL for 12k three years ago. Blue tooth stereo upgrade and it does every thing a truck needs to do. Pull a fifth wheel with it. No trunk payment. No bells and whistles
@@MrSergio608 I love my F250 hd, 2wd, T444E, 5 sp, lsd, long bed but rust in Vermont is taking its toll. I still haul well over 1.5T on occasion but one day it will fail.
My 2012 F-150 Lariat 4x4 was 48k msrp. Today same options msrp is around 68k. Ridiculous. Auto manufacturers have lost their minds. I'll never again buy a new vehicle.
The reason I no longer drive a full-size pick up is that they have become so big. Step back and look at a new Ford or Chevy pick up and realize just how huge they are. Keeping them between the lines and finding a parking place for them has become unpleasant. Getting up into the bed, or even climbing in behind the wheel is a chore. Most of them require some sort of running boards or steps, sometimes with the addition of a grab handle or grab bar. They are just too big to be fun and convenient.
I blame middle aged office dads in a midlife crisis pumping up demand artifically. The crewcab pickup is dads station wagon now. Goto any little leauge or flag football game and its all f150 ram1500 crewcabs.. All driven buy guys who use them as minivans.
One thing to consider here, is that we were still working out way out of the financial crisis in 2010. Prices for everything were depressed at that time, including trucks. So anytime you compare up against a depressed period, things are going to look skewed. A better comparison would be, say, 2015 to 2018 vs today. Now, I'll be the 1st to admit that things are slowing up somewhat in the automotive sector, but that slowdown is coming off a period where dealerships were selling their trucks for $10,000 over MSRP. So, at some point it had to happen. Now, how slow it will ultimately get is anyone's guess. Much of that will likely depend upon interest rates.
Truck prices are just insane these days. Just 6 years ago, my loaded 2017 Sierra SLT 6.2L stickered at just under $57k…got it for $42k out the door. The same 2023 Sierra would sticker for $70-$72k…and with the lame (for now) discounts and incentives it’s too damn expensive and not worth the money.
My local ford dealer is still doing a 2k "dealer experience" on every new vehicle. The "experience" is "state of the art service shop, first oil change free, and a couple other things" all things that before covid, were just included in the purchase of a new vehicle.
Your right the truck prices have gone crazy. I remember buying my F-250 diesel lariat for 55k with every option. That same truck today would be 90k+. F-150 purchased an 2010 lariat for 42k. My 18 I got a 150 lariat diesel for 47. At the same time the gmc at4 in 18/19 was 55 same truck today is 70+ Bottom line is they got greedy. Since they became the popular vehicle the price went up like crazy. They decided that is the whole future and obviously that is shrinking because fuel prices.
Hit the nail on the head. Pure greed. We have to stop blaming inflation, costs, and even labor. With automakers even bragging about record profits quarter after quarter, and the price increases seemingly every 6 months, it all adds up. All of that said, I do place a small piece of blame on the consumer. There was a reason why the Big 3 didn't punish dealers for charging far beyond MSRP pricing(remember the craziness when the Bronco came out? Or Vette? Any SRT vehicle? Yep, all 3 were guilty). Buyers didn't care and had the latest and greatest and paid dearly for it. At the same time, all manufacturers were grossly raising prices, forcing everything to insanely and very unattainable prices. The bubble has burst and lots are full of trucks for that reason.
Look around. It isn't just trucks. It's EVERYTHING. Honda Accords are selling for $49-51K in some states. Prices on some VWs have jumped $4K and there is NOTHING different between them and the 2020 models!
@@largol33t1 yes everything as gone up. But still doesn’t mean that it’s gotten excessive. The margin on pickups and suv is insane the mfg have said that is what feeds the rest. When you can buy an HD for almost the same price as a half ton you know it’s out of wack
Steel & Labor is more expensive and with the new union contracts, MSRP pricing isn't coming down anytime soon. The Big 3 are just trying to lease their cars cheap now and hopefully sell them at higher prices when rates are lower in 2-3 years. There will be big discounts coming but not what we saw pre-covid.
Ford nailed it with the Maverick. But then the prices quickly started climbing. Not the value it was in the beginning. But they still selling every one they make. I waited 18 months for my 2022. Sticker was $28,005 for a hybrid XLT with Lux and CP360. That’s what I paid.
you are absolutely right. I bought a RAM 2500 diesel marked $85k. It does not have value for that price!!! I got a big discount but everything was wrong when they marked at that price and so many flows in quality. I end up selling her after 2000 miles because i could not digest the price of $75k i paid for her.
Not a fan of Luxury pickups, but I was just surfing on Car and Driver. The F150 Lariat had a starting MSRP of $43k in 2019. For 2024, the starting MSRP for the Lariat is $67k!!!
I bought an '06 Chevy 1500 for 12k 6 years ago, which has @ 250k miles on it now. Sure, some things break down, but I just keep fixing it. It can tow 7200 lbs, and gets over 20 mpg on the highway. I'm a retired high school teacher; anything over $22k for a vehicle is out of the question, and that's pushing it.
The US has a tariff on trucks built outside US-Canada-Mexico. Tacomas and Mavericks are assembled in Mexico, I believe. So cheaper assembly can be done in Mexico, but I'm not sure a mass move of full sized trucks there will maintain build quality. And anywhere else less expensive means the import tariff wipes out the cost savings.
@user-tt6il2up4o Compared to Mexico? US build quality has suffered, but in many instances what's made in Mexico is faring worse; this is somewhat maker-dependent.
In June 23, I moved back the United States, and needed a pickup. I shopped used and prices were ridiculous! A used truck with 50K miles for 50K??? I don't think so.... So I switched to new, and shopped only Ram because I didn't want a 2.7 turbo or a 6 cylinder. I shopped two dealers and I negoiated two deals on Ram 1500 Hemi longhorn Crew and Quadcab 4x4. My final choice was a Longhorn quadcab 4x4 Hemi and tow package with 13K off MSRP. so 2023 Longhorn, MSRP of 57000$, final price 43000K. Out the door price of about 47000. The other deal that I walked away from was a Crewcab for about 11K off MSRP. would have been about 46K final price. So upshot is that deals can be made and dealers have to sell these units.
You did OK which saved you some money which will come in handy when the darn thing starts with the problems everyone is seeing with the quality. Good job.
Ben, you make some good points. I wanted to mention that the income figures you stated and the truck price "compare" going back to 2010 or so? Well, you are still working sort of in the distorted era. If I had an email for you, I'd send the window sticker of a truck we bought as newlyweds in 1975. It was a Toyota small pickup and it was ~$3500. Pretty basic, yes, but it was also about 1/4th of our combined incomes, this with one full time and one of us working part time as a grad student. I continued to buy trucks over the years as second vehicles and another very specific purchase I recall making was a 1989 Ford F-150 "Texas special" for $9995. It had a standard trans, the basics, saddle gas tanks . . . and again, it was just a fraction of our then combined incomes. Odd . . . our first several homes were purchased at income multiples not that much greater than now it appears trucks command. It'd be cheap credit coupled with the fact that Americans became super consumers and largely payment buyers. They really don't care about window stickers . . . just tell them how much down and how much a month. Anyway, this truck pricing can't last but I'll be danged if I know how it gets corrected.
The US truck market isn’t nearly as bad as it has been in the past. I remember 15 years ago truck discounts of $10k that was a much larger percentage discount than anything you are seeing now.
I was perusing my local gmc website to check prices. Some of the 1500 trims are over 60K and only have cloth seats. That's just simply unacceptable when you're spending that much.
Great video. I bought a brand new Ram 1500 Laramie in 2011, fully loaded, for $42k. You couldn’t fit another option into this truck. The truck is still in the picture and doing well, but it’s getting to about the point where I’m ready for a trade. I’m just not willing to spend what the dealers want these days. The same truck would easily go for almost $80k today.
Yup... I work in manufacturing and see a lot of $65K+ trucks in the parking lots in our industrial park, most likely driven by guys making $40-$50K tops. There's only so much guys can pay for a truck and manufacturers have gotten too far away from the original purpose of a pick-up truck.
Well hopefully you paid closer to $35k or less. That truck might be work 1/3 or less than what you paid. Now Ram is throwing around 15k off their pickups but they are still way overpriced
I think the departure from trucks being work vehicles and making them into luxury vehicles was a huge part of the issue. Like you said, get back to value.
As much as I like pickup trucks and I have my little Ford Ranger from the 1990s which is an appropriate size for me I think many people lost the plot anyhow on what it means to own a pickup truck. Too much tech and luxury and all this stuff and yet they never use a truck as a truck. Now it pains me when someone beats the hell out of a truck because they are a douche but if ya buy a truck and never use it as a tool on it's basic level its a waste of space and fuel and car insurance costs. And with how stupid people drive these days some don't deserve to own a pickup. Secondly the obsession with people feelings like they have to or they are entitled to just have the newest truck with all the features pisses me off. And in the long run like their old truck that was simple and reliable they still don't take care of it. When I don't drive my Ranger I commute in my Camaro. It's more sensible for daily use. Also I love my Ranger because it is not high tech. I even have roll down windows and I'm happy about that. 237,000 miles and they haven't failed yet.
Agree 100 percent.
Is any truck less than 15 years old economically justifiable?
I would love to buy a new truck. My truck now is a 2013 was $32,000 for a quad cab 4x4 5.7 liter Hemi. I have 150,000 miles on it now and still running good. I will maintain it until I die because trucks are ridiculously expensive. Ben is correct. Not going to pay these prices and I hope they loose everything with these ridiculous prices and these piece of crap V6 turbo charged things their trying to pass off as trucks. 11:40
Most of us want a stripped down V8 4x4 with a 6 foot bed minimum for around. $40,000. I don't want bells and whistles. I want a working truck.
Nailed it! The other problem is people that don’t use trucks for work started buying them. My friends that work in an office all have pickups pricing the people that need them to make a living on the outside. Most guys I work with are driving their old trucks into the ground because they can’t afford another mortgage for a new one.
Many buy pickup trucks because it makes them feel macho, and never actually use them as a truck. This is why 4 door trucks are common now, people want seats, not bedspace or tow capacity. A truck fancy bed cover is s good way to determine spot someone who doesn't "need" a truck.
Get a new job
💯
@@jaderhuff81 buy a Volvo and wear your work boots on the weekend😂
@@xerideaDoes "macho" have something to do with the size of one's testes?
They turned trucks into giant vehicles with the interior of a Cadillac that working people can no longer afford - the exact opposite of what they need to be.
It's the maker's own fault.
Then add some Dealership greed into the equation.
With all the events going on in the world, you’re wondering how this is emblematic of a tortuous disconnect from reality that’s going to defeat itself and us from getting anywhere
What's sad is they could have done both at the same time. No reason at all they couldn't have kept base model trucks at around 35-40k and then also offer fancy trucks for 70k+ that they still would've made plenty of profit off. They saw pickup popularity jump and got greedy.
@@SliderFury1 35-40k is still over priced.
Unreal how people convinced themselves that they needed pickup trucks to drive back and forth to their overpaid white collar office jobs. Seems many want to feel like they're getting ready for some big project with never having done anything close to construction. or hauling related. Then they want to complain about gas prices, maintenance costs, their payments, and that things are getting really tough for them. Only in the US of A could such delusion exist.
They always have cheated consumers with Luxury vehicles to disguise its value beyond actual service. A Cadillac has always been same as a Chevy, with slight design differences, leather seats and a hood ornament added. Ka Ching! Still doing it.
The core pick up buyer needs it to haul, run reliably, have comfortable seats, and needs to be able to get it dirty once in a while, and not cost more than a house.
Go for a drive. 95% of the trucks you see are not being used as trucks. People want huge trucks that are very very expensive. It is an image thing in the US.
Oh I know it’s an “ego-driven keeping up with the joneses” image thing for a lot of people. My point was that not everyone wants or needs or can afford an “image” truck, and the “image” version were all the dealers had for a while. I don’t feel sorry for the dealerships that are upside down because they went for a lot of image trucks only and weren’t giving the buyers much of a choice.
💯💯💯💯💯
Reliability should be top of the list, not tech heavy luxury..
There’s a huge industry out there doing big dollar re-builds on older model pickup’s. Less tech, more reliability.
I’ve personally got a 2006 LandCruiser that I bought new, should last the next couple of decades with only basic (and regular) maintenance. It’s extremely low tech, just power windows and a CD player. But Toyota builds them for a 25 year lifespan in 3rd world countries. I absolutely love it and will be keeping it for the long term. When I’m out on the road I always get people asking me if I’d like to sell it.
These modern vehicles with smaller displacement engines and lots of boost will never last the distance.
I'm really disappointed in Toyota for jumping on the turbo bandwagon. If you're buying a new full size 4x4 you probably don't care about getting an extra 1-2mpg city over a N/A V8 or V6 that much if it means sacrificing long term reliability.
@@mikesteelheart the EPA mandate ruined reliability for everybody. We, consumers, are the the one shouldering the cost. Not automotive manufacturers nor the Govt.
Just saw a TH-camr mechanic rate a used Tundra best used truck. Basic and sturdy reliability for working man
I drive a BJ 60 diesel several times à week locally. Probably gonna park it for real cold months now. Bit of maintenance easily done myself. No $1200 à month payments
@@mikesteelheartI'm thinking they probably thought it out. But yeah more plumbings = more problems !
I can still remember my 5th grade teacher on a single income, show the class her brand new Cadillac that she had just purchased for $6 thousand dollars. That shows just how bad the Federal Reserve Corporation has destroyed the economy for the average person in my life time alone.
I highly doubt your teacher from 50 years ago said..."Kids, I know you are only 10 years old but look at my new Cadillac that cost $6,000."
z28 cam. 4000 lol
@@Abraham.Lincoln22 Doesn't matter to me what you believe. Shove it.
Someone finally hit the nail on the head with the truck market. Pretty much listed every reason I'm still driving my 2012 xlt F150. It was affordable, didn't have a bunch of junk on it, good build quality and it has been extremely reliable.
Ditto.
Your 2012 wasn’t really affordable, at least to the older generation that remembers buying trucks for 1-3k. I guess you don’t remember the older generation complaining back then about vehicle prices much like current generations are.
@Bonanzaking I wish trucks were still priced like the 1950s along with many other items. But I'm realistic, prices will go up based on many factors. I'm willing to pay what the market demands IF the product quality is there. All things considered, my truck was a great deal at the time. These new trucks, no. I might consider paying current prices IF they could guarantee 100% build quality and no issues for the next 20 years. Unrealistic? Yep, but so are the prices even considering discounts for the current new trucks.
@@Bonanzaking You mean when minimum wage was $3.75/hour? Interest rates were in the double digits? I still don't understand why a car needs a computer or why you have to tear half the engine apart to change a water-pump or an alternator?
Back when I was a kid we did most of the work on vehicles ourselves. Today, we pay $100+/hour for a task we used to do ourselves.
That's why I switched to an ebike and transit. Reliable, and easy to maintain and repair. Vehicles with internal combustion engines are inefficient and expensive.
Yea keep driving it & don’t make the wheels fall off I hate it when Poeple say that
I agree with most of your points but there's an issue rarely addressed by anyone reviewing "overpriced" consumer products. They arent more expensive - your Dollar buys less. It's been devalued by intentionally insane money printing in the US. Coincidentally, you mentioned 2010 truck prices. What went into overdrive around that time? Modern Monetary Theory, Quantitative Easing. May sound like a political rant but it's true.
End the FED! #FJB
Overpriced 100k mile trash
Nailed it 🙌
That May be true but the conditions for it to be that way have been engineered into the economy.
@@RockCh4lkthe "FED" was around eons before JB and it yas Always coddled well healed "CONservatives" that's how we got here......using him is a simpletons excuse.
I think pickup prices are so high is to partially pay for the heavy losses in their EV department.
Even if EVs didn't exist, pickup prices would be right where they are. Interest rates were too low for a decade and a half - and businesses from banks, auto manufacturers, and dealers all perfected the art of hiding true costs from consumers and focusing on the monthly payment - pushing ever more costly products and services. And they all got greedy when the pandemic limited supply. Now that the days of easy borrowing are over, too many companies have forgotten how to make a modest profit by selling reasonably priced goods. Today's pickups are too big and aimed at too many people to be affordable at normal interest rates.
Looks to me like a lot of that money goes for exorbitant managers' salaries and bonuses, advertising, and recall repairs. Not to mention obsolete manufacturing practices and allowing horizontal integration of parts suppliers. I remember when that big earthquake hit Kobe, Japan, and knocked out a single blast furnace that produced the steel for 60% of the world's valve springs. I understand it is at least that bad, maybe worse, for fuel injectors, and there are a lot more examples. A far cry from the Ford River Rouge plant, where iron ore, coal, and other basic materials went in one end and finished Fords came out the other end.
Bingo. Because the more EV's automakers sell the more they lose. So if they sold 100% EV they'd be 100% out of business. Until they come to the federal government, meaning you and me the taxpayer, to bail them out, again. "Too big to fail"🙄
They have to squeeze every penny out of their products they are actually selling.
@@JasonEDragon You aren't wrong but EV losses are definitely part of it... When a department of your business is losing billions of dollars you look elsewhere for money and the truck market was it.
Spot on. Not to mention with the current borrowing rates these trucks are even more unaffordable for most average consumers.
When I ordered my truck in 2005 it was 19K. I put $1K down to order and then when I picked it up I put another $9K down. The dealer about fell over. I was ONLY financing 9 Thousand? Had it paid off in 18 months.
a $40,00 loan will have $10,000 in interests rates how many people can afford a $800 a month payment plus insurance and most only commute 3 to 5 miles from home not worth it
Great to see these greedy companies finally getting humbled.
We will soon be bailing them out again.
Your Country is broke
Biden printing money you have no buying power
The government will bail them out with our tax payer dollars just like before
When you look at the inventory it is all crew cabs with high end trim levels. If you want a Ram quad cab longhorn with just a few options on it, you have to search far and wide. Dealers stocked up on the wrong stuff.
All 3 brands pushing the same thing, short bed pavement princess with appearance pkg and computers, most with a 6 or 4 cyl engine
@@heterodox3487pavement princesses 👸? Lmao😅
Because those high end models are the biggest money makers
Just bought a Honda Ridgeline. Listed for 48k, out the door 42.9k. Black edition. Fairly loaded. I know not a real pickup but much more reasonably priced.
It's real enough! It has an over 1000lbs payload and its a HONDA! Enjoy it!
Those ridgelines are low key awesome trucks if you don’t need to tow heavy
In 2007 and 2008 the top of the line Tundra was about $43,000. I sold Toyota's then. Most crew cab 4x4 Tundra's were around $35,000.
In 2021 ypu could get a platinum or 1794 tundra for 56k. The 2022-Present cost that or more for a base SR5 with cloth interior. Back in 2018 i took my brother truck shopping. We had talked a brand new tundra 1794 down to 49k. He ended up getting a titan pro4x with every option including heated amd cooled seats, 360 cameras (the tundra didnt even offer this until the 3rd gen came out). Out the door TT&L was right at 50k.
There are cheaper pick-up trucks out there, and smaller handier ones too. However, they are not in america, because being foreign built they attract the "Chicken tax" a tariff of 25% on light truck imports, the US makers have had no competition in pricing for 40 years..
I have a 2001 Ford F 350 Super Duty crew cab dually with an eight foot bed, 4X4 powerstroke 7.3 I bought new. Runs perfectly and I love it.
Every vehicle sold currently has more computers in it than your average office. They are now connected to the manufacturer via their own cellular link whether or not you into their remote communication network. This will allow them to offer certain options to function (or not function) based on a subscription that will be billed on a monthly basis. Your car has heated seats but you will have to pay a monthly premium in order to use them.
And the one thing you need to mention is , the quality needs to be improved substantially!! Paying that kind of money 💰 for any vehicle,it should last more than 100,000 - 125,000 miles before it starts self-destructing!!😢😢🙉🙊🙈💥poor quality control , poor engineering and too much outsourcing!! For a pickup truck, I feel basic is better!!
Pickups were meant to be work vehicles and not just transportation. If you get back to that philosophy, I think that reliability and value could possibly return.
Well done, Ben. The average person can no longer afford a basic truck in today's market. Pickup trucks used to be the cheapest option for a working man and were work trucks not $70k luxury vehicles. The big 3 can choke on them before I buy one!
This isn't just the truck market collapsing, it's numerous markets. Look at the trucking industry. 100 year companies going out of business. A depression like that of the 1930s is upon us right now
Planned by the WEF. The Fourth Industrial Revolution, The Great Reset, C40. 14 American Cities Aim to Ban Meat, Dairy, Private Cars by 2030
2025 it gets worse
Inflation will increase again when California ban on diesel trucks and equipment in shipping yard starting January 2024.
Worse. Much much worse. This is the end of a era. This is the fourth turning everything’s going down.
Trucks are too tech heavy today, in my opinion. When I see all the tech in new trucks all I see is things that will beak, I guess I’m officially old!😂 I wouldn’t want to keep them longer than the warranty that comes with them. I wish trucks were made with more basic interior packaging, I hate the giant screens with endless menus to scroll through when a simple knob would be faster and easier… I would like to be able to get the upgraded exterior, with a basic interior. I’d rather a truck that was built with ungraded suspension, better transmissions and engines instead of buttons, and screens, and leather everywhere…
Agreed. Just too much on the newer trucks that I don't need.
Owned 2 trucks over a period of 26 years (1987 -1997 & 2001 - 2017). Great value on both. I'm just not seeing the value today. There will have to be a collapse in the market for me to consider anything, but I'm still reticent due to all of the gadgets.
In 2013 I bought a used 2012 Ram 3500 diesel with king cab and 4WD that had 19K miles for $42K. It already had a gooseneck ball installed and brake controller installed that I need. I still have it and will hold on to it as long as I possibly can. The current prices for new are absurd.
To much!!!!
My dealership has discounted by 25% and consumers still aren’t buying. The last Ram we sold was 3 weeks ago and that was a used Tradesmen. Our banks/lenders have gotten tougher as well.
It's about time lenders have tightened up credit. I'm sick of seeing these broke azz posers living well beyond there means
Honestly to me most of the pickup trucks are useless. I don't need 2 rows of seats and leather interior. One bench seat and a large bed. (the beds are useless these days). No point in owning one unless you are towing. I can honestly load more in the back of my 2005 Grand Voyager (with seats down) than in the bed of today's trucks.
I got approved for a 2021 chevy trailboss used back in July- was $44,000. I had to pass on it because the payments were $1200 a month. Couldn't afford that. It's still at the dealer lot and I saw now it's $46,000. crazy. I'm still driving my 2010 silverado LTZ. Probably will drive this for another 10 years. And see how the truck market is down the road.
You are probably better off with the 2010! The new ones have numerous issues.
I am driving my LMM 2008 Duramax with 66,000 miles. Should last me rest of my life at 8,000 miles/year. Plus I can pull 14,000lbs.
@@lmtada I would get some of the parts that might be scarce in the future and store them for future use in case of “no long available “. ECM comes to mind. Just my $.02 worth. I have a gently used’05 Tundra that I want to hang on to.
Own your possessions, don't let them own you.
I just put a Brand new Cummins Diesel in my 2005 2500 Dodge/Ram. It cost me like $13,000 but worth every penny because the truck is still very well equipped and I love it. I would do it again too with these skyrocket and ridiculous prices today.
Thanks for addressing this issue.
Would you consider talking about the lack of available extended cab pickup trucks? If one needs a truck to actually do some work, a 6 1/2' bed is preferred. The F 150 is no longer offering the Lariat in supercab versions and the XLT in supercab is very hard to find. It seems that the manufacturers are all opting to produce the large 4 door cabs and almost all of those are 4 wheel drive. I currently have a 2018 F150 XLT supercab two wheel drive with 6'8" bed and 3.5 liter ecoboost, i love it! I would have already traded for a new one if Ford hadn't been so greedy, opting to produce so many supercrew
trucks to maximize profits. Even Toyota has followed suit. The Tundra with 6 1/2' bed, two wheel drive and what they call double cab are also hard to find. The execs have ignored the needs of consumers like myself.
Today, half-ton pickup trucks are cultural symbols in the US, and not designed for work. There's more work being done with beater minivans with the seats torn out than with F-150s.
OEM are building cash reserves to survive the coming global recession.
Try finding a regular cab, standard box, in a manual transmission. Good luck.
I feel your pain. I have been looking for either an extended cab F-150 or GMC Sierra 1500. I think I have settled on GMC Sierra with the 3.0 Duramax and have located about ten trucks within several hundred miles of here I live... I would say at most of the large dealerships that have 100 trucks maybe two of them are an extended cab.
I have that Tundra that’s becoming rare on the road. Every couple of years it gets maintenance at the local dealer, and they offer to buy it every single time it comes in. Reliable is an understatement, but it never got great gas mileage, but everything is great, a nice truck in it’s day, the only luxury one on the lot without leather seats, which I didn’t want. The fabric is fantastic! No, I’ll most likely die with this 2002 Tundra and the 1990 Stallion Fiberglass horse trailer. They are both great! (even though they look smaller and smaller every decade, next to those beefy boxy toys with all the whistles and bells).
Best advice buy a 10 year old camry or corolla. If you MUST have a truck best bet is a rust free from Southern Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, some parts of California, and some parts of Florida. Hopefully with a straight 6 from the 90's
I own an old PU. Don’t drive it unless I’m hauling, etc. Gas is expensive. So many trucks driven by people with ego issues. I dread getting hit by them.
My pet peeve is the same people lift and add oversized tires but don’t readjust their headlamps! Not cool and dangerous to oncoming drivers.
Cars & trucks are just way too expensive right now. I do believe the auto makers are pricing their vehicles so high to cover their losses from making EVs. Pretty soon they will be forced to drop prices and offer really good incentives to help move the cars off the lots. The dealers have stopped taking new vehicles because they can't sell what they have. The economy is on shaking legs right now so one of the worst things you can do right now is to take on a new set of payments.
I'm in the market for a pickup. Here is what I'd like to buy in a basic work vehicle: 4X4, large displacement straight 6 (no turbos), 8 foot bed, high payload, minimum 10K lb towing, extended cab with space behind the front seat mainly used for concealed and safe storage, and tow hooks up front. This truck would be used to service works sites with hauling and towing duties. No leather, no heated seats, no heated steering wheel, no carpet on the floor, no 14 inch display, no 'soft' plastics up front. In my mind it'd feel like my 2014 FJ - rough and ready.
A non turbo straight 6 isn't pulling 10k lbs. Your dream is dead in the water
best investment you can make is fixing the old car
@@omardevonlittle3817 Well they presently do have turbos but I am sure someone could stick a non turbo straight six diesel in one that could easily pull 10K. I am sure they could do with gasoline also. IF they wanted to.
That is a truck I would buy.
Ford used to build a straight 6 that would do the job. Here is a cut from wikipedia.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_straight-six_engine The 300 cu in (4.9 L) six was first offered in the F-Series for 1965. It is essentially a 240 cu in (3.9 L) with a longer stroke of 3.98 in (101 mm). The two engines are nearly identical; the differences are in the rotating assembly and combustion chamber sizes in the head (the heads are interchangeable). It produced 170 hp (127 kW) (gross). The 300 became the base F-Series engine in 1978 at 114 hp (85 kW) (horsepower number changes due to Ford switching to net power ratings in 1971). Power outputs were increased to roughly 122 hp (91 kW) during the early 1980s, before fuel injection was introduced. This became the primary engine of the line, eclipsing the 240. Unlike the Falcon engine, it featured separate intake and exhaust manifolds, which could be easily replaced with aftermarket manifolds offering the promise of even more power, through the installation of larger carburetors and a higher flowing exhaust system.
Also during the late 1960s and early 1970s, the 300 was used in larger vehicles such as dump trucks, many weighing into the 15,000 lb (6,804 kg) to 20,000 lb (9,072 kg) range. These engines were equipped with a higher flow HD (Heavy Duty) exhaust manifold and forged crankshafts and rods since the engines were going to be constantly working in the 3,000-4,000 rpm range. These rare yet effective manifolds had a much higher exhaust flow rate because many of these engines would spend hours at 3,000 rpm or more. Due to their straightforward and high flowing design, enthusiasts often seek these manifolds out because they allow turbochargers to be easily retrofitted to the engine. @@omardevonlittle3817
agreed! nailed it. I dont ever see them every lowering MSRPs again , they will just need to push incentives when things get really bad like they are now.
I think you're right. I believe the automakers will start to wise up and make certain things standard on vehicles. For instance with trucks, they'll reduce options and make everything standard per trim, similar to what Honda does. They won't reduce MSRP, but will start the incentives deep once again.
People been saying this for some time... yet it never crashes... and I'm not talking about 1k off a 50k over priced truck. That doesnt mean shit.
In 2010 paid 36k for a ram bighorn 4x4 hemi quad cab. This is crazy now a days on costs
they probably hemorrhaged money to sell it at the loss
They abandoned their established client base and tried to sell luxury trucks to rich people who thought it was trendy for 5 minutes. What did they expect to happen? The manufacturers should fire every idiot that advised them that was the way to go.
They did this to themselves! Our board meeting this past week had some surprises. One of those was vehicle replacement. We were set to replace 5 service trucks, but the availability at prices we projected last year for the budget, aren't possible. We put it out to bid for 10 dealerships. Regular cab base model trucks just aren't in stock or being made in some cases. We were also supposed to replace 3 admin vehicles, mine being 1 of them. Same issue, base model economy cars are a thing of the past. Budget constraints + sketchy economic forecast = we'll keep running them for a minimum of 1 year, probably 2.
How about running them for ten or twenty years instead of 1 or 2? Or rebuilding them?
Just get a rental/lease contract with a company like enterprise. Especially if you’re a small company. It’s cheaper to rotate a fleet and they do the maintenance and repair.
Where I worked we had a fleet or sedans (Ford 500 & Taurus, GM Malibus, and one Toyota Camry) for use in going out to job sites. Something about 'buy American'. Without fail the Ford and GM cars had major problems around 100K miles, but the Camry just kept going with normal maintenance. We replace the GM and Ford cars with Camrys. When I retired that old Camry had 160K miles on it and was still going strong.
@@crosslink1493 160k is nothing, Im pushing over 360k miles in a Subaru and it shows in the paint. No wonder US car manufacturers need constant $500k billion bailouts and the only people showing up for Joe Bidens victory speech are Ford Trucks any1 a bit mechanically inclined knows exactly why US car manufacturers need Taxes to bail them out. Buy a truck Dont buy a truck. Either way FORD is paid and in the shade.
The last time I shopped for a Tacoma, probably 10 years ago, I decked out 4 wheel drive four door was about $23,000. I shopped for one this year, it was $43,000. Nope, not this guy. And that was an SR 5, not many options.
I’ve been researching the dependability aspect of new trucks for a month now and so far I’m afraid to buy any of them.
From what I’m seeing they all are having not just issues but MAJOR drive train issues with either the engines and or transmissions.
My 06 2500 dodge only has 85000 miles on it so I’ve about decided I’ve got a better truck than anything being produced today and since I was planning on keeping it anyway I’ve decided not to buy one of these new problem vehicles
Keep it, Dont be foolish... Keeping my 02 2500hd chev. taking it with me when i die! lol
@@mrmaster8884my 03 Silverado had 270k and worked great until I hit a deer doing 75. Now my current 12 ram 1500 has 240k and the engine runs great. Of course it gets spendy doing all the upkeep on it, but if you replace parts when they should it runs forever. Just now looking at getting a 15-20 ram to replace the older one.
@@mrmaster8884 oh I’m keeping it whether I buy another on or not.
I was just gonna buy a mid size while I’m still working. I’m getting long in the tooth and wanted a newer model so it would be paid off before I retire and these kill switches become a reality.
After watching reviews and mechanics talk I’m afraid of these new vehicles
Where are you doing this "research". Vehicles overall are more reliable than in history. Hell even in the mid 2000s a huge amount of vehicles were trash at 100K miles. Now 100K for any car isn't even a big deal.
@@drn13355 just pick a brand and model and type dependably and reviews, there are plenty of mechanics out there talking about the potential issues with them
Over the years, pickups have become bloated, bizarre, and overpriced. Truthfully, I miss my old station wagon. I could haul long stuff, out of the weather, or 7- 8 people in comfort. Pickups are flat impractical as a all-around vehicle.
Excellent video & topics! 100% correct on all accounts.
1. I am still driving my 05 ram 2500. Because a new one is too expensive. And hard to find in my area.
2. Also new pickups are not nearly as reliable as my old Dodge.
3. Move all truck manufacturing to righ to work states to lower prices.
4. If they can't do any of that build them in another country unfortunately.
I agree with your comment about moving operations to right to work states. The big 3 should shut down completely for a year. Reorganize and rehire non union workers like Hostess did! These UAW workers need to be humbled! I am proud to say that my truck and two cars are all non union made!!!
All the big 3 have plants in Indiana we are a right to work state but they continue with the UAW.We also have Honda and Toyota plants they are non union but you can't buy their vehicles any cheaper. I don't know what will it will take to change things but obviously we can't keep doing this.@@BigBadJohnDiesel
A decade of ridiculously low interest rates, longer and longer loan terms, and easy loan approval increased the demand for expensive trucks. A pandemic shut down closed almost everything worldwide for a while, and global supply chain chaos caused chip shortages that only recently ended. Then at a time when trucks are at the most expensive they've ever been and manufactures finally caught up on the supply, the interest rates started climbing. The economy is slowing. The demand is dead. It no longer matters what truck buyers want. It's what they can afford. They can't afford $50,000 trucks at 10% APR's. The banks won't lend it to them anymore. Time for a market correction. This one is probably going to require some automaker bailouts, and there's going to be a lot of truck owners way underwater as the value of their trucks they bought in the last few years crashes.
I think the purpose of this is to force people to lease. The car companies want as many people leasing as possible, because it makes them more money over time. With high enough prices, the average person will need to lease (just like everything else: rent, subscribe, order to your door)
First, I disagree with the notion that you can't build a quality vehicle in America, not right to blame the workers for poor SW quality and a lack of detailed engineering at the automakers. that being said I am getting out of the truck market as they are WAY too expensive and get poor fuel economy. A replacement for my current RAM truck lease would be close to 1k/month which is ridiculous for a lease. You can still get a decent car that gets good fuel economy at a reasonable price (sub 40k) so that makes sense to me.
I will miss the truck (a RAM 1500 is an awesome truck) but I can rent one for 20 bucks a day from Lowes/Home Depot) when I really need it.
If your lease is up you likely bought during 2020... I'd almost assure you its worth buying for the residual... the msrp on your truck has gone up as much as the yearly depreciation I'd bet. Buy it and sell it. Don't just give it back
Smart man
Nissan Titan is the way to go now.
A new1980 Ford Courier pick up truck 4cly and manual 4 speed was less than $4500 dollars, we've come along way!
What was average blue collar wage in 1980? What's the ratio of that wage and price compared to today's averages?
Min wage $3.10 blue collar avg about $5 to 8@@LarryMusgrave
Sometime in 2021, I watch local (SLC,UT) used car dealers add lift kits or leveling kits plus big tires and rims to nearly every used truck available, then jack up the price by $10k. That trend is still in effect.
I remember years ago, we used to buy pickup trucks because they were cheaper than cars, now they're much more expensive.
car companies got greedy... Now it's pay the piper time...
New vehicles are one of the worst purchases a person can make. It's like burning money.
Corporations are totally capable of doing what you suggest, they choose not to, putting the huge amount of profit in their pockets and their shareholders, putting themselves first, and passing the costs on to the consumer. They can keep their money wagons.
I have a friend who owns a very expensive GMC truck. Doesn't listen to anything one says. So one day I'd had it and walked him to the truck. We stood about 30 feet away with a side view.
So I said: "Ok, now look at your 70000 dollar truck. " He answered "I am". I replied "no, you're not." He still didn't get it. The I explained. "Look at the part starting from behind the cab. What do you see?"
He said; " The bed, wheels and huh...that's it"
Yes! I said. How much do you think that rear part costs? Factory cost? That's when it hit him.Bed, two wheels, solid axle, brakes and lights.
He developed a transmission issue about a month later and now drives a BMW X5 M40i (six cylinder) with a perpetual grin on his face.
Btw, I was a passenger in the rear of that truck from Nashville to Chattanooga and back. I had to really keep my shyte together not to stop the truck and get out. The front passengers just replied, "oh! dad, we don't feel it upfront".
For 70 grand. It's a grand con played on America that is ending. And I hope it goes completely to 0. Trucks for people that do stuff. That's it.
You tell them Ben! Although I'm afraid they won't listen because they are too busy looking at their profit margins but you are right
I live on a farm and need a pick up but the average Tom executive that works in town and parks in a parking garage doesn't need 4WD. I had to shop for a non 4WD truck the last time and the dealer told me 90 percent of their trade ins had never used the 4WD in their truck.
There’s a great video out there about a mechanic replacing an F-150 taillight that costs $5000. Granted this is an option but it’s still out there.
Everyone is tired of getting ripped off the new trucks aren’t worth what dealers ask an people can’t afford the payments an insurance Insurance is way to high also because the vehicle is priced so high. It’s bull crap
Yea I just want a small pick-up but the laws our government passed are making it impossible.
Spot on. I prefer value over heated seats or a fancy interior. I have two PU trucks now and a car. Both from the 1990's (the trucks). They are fine for what I do. If I want luxury i'll drive my Lexus. All I need a PU for is to pull my trailer (18ft open trailer) or haul something. I thought about a new Tundra but they are $82K with a turbo V6. Never purchase a turbo powered engine within a full size truck. Trucks need a powerplant that can not be overwhelmed by the payload. I suppose I'll keep what I have because I won't pay $80,000 for a pickup. Back when I was a kid (1960's) a light duty F-150 or 1500 (GMC) cost less than an average automobile. A 1969 Impala loaded was about $3200 and a Ford or Chevy with a V8 or inline 6 was maybe $2500. Just the opposite now. To hell with the manufacturers. If people need a 100 speaker Escalade (Tahoe frame) for $108K then they need to see a good shrink. It's sheet metal, plastic, aluminum, steel (very little of that), rubber, and glass and the Mexicans are making it for you. Enjoy the $1700 a month payments.
Good review Ben. There are two problems that come to mind for me that has led to this state of affairs ... easy money (remember Fed rates have been close to zero since 2010) which the truck makers used to tell the buyer that the truck loan is going to be at such a low rate that they can afford to buy a more expensive truck, by which they meant we can make more profit while you pay larger payment. Second, like @Bsbigbrain61 has stated, people who don't need trucks started buying trucks in place of cars ... I mean literally, I see people who are going to office drive these big trucks to basically an office job to portray an image perception ... why do you need a 5.7 V8 type engines that drinks fuel like water to go 10-15-20 miles to work when you're the only passenger on most days ... what are you carrying and/or towing besides your ego on the truck bed or behind you (sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's the fact)! The companies took advantage of human psychology and pushed their profits and returns to shareholders while the consumer got perception and high payments and long loan payment duration.
Us big bubbas need large vehicles. I'm 6'7" 320 and I NEED a truck to make driving livable to go to the office. If they made a car that fit me as good as a full sized truck, I'd consider it. But it's been a long time since anyone made a car with really good room. I had a Sonata for a while and the legroom was good, but the headroom was not. Used to bump my head when the road got rough.
I did rent a hybrid Sienna earlier this year on vacation and the room was pretty good plus it averaged 36mpg, but when I went to look at them they are unobtainium new (dealer said 18 month wait) and the used ones are $35-$50K. With the ones in the mid-30s being ex-rental stripper models from Avis car sales that mainly had 50-60K miles. No thanks.
So I guess for now I'll keep rockin my 2010 Expedition. Has 158K but runs good, mileage is crap, but I just try to drive it less. Started taking the train to work, it's about a 15 minute ride to the station and it's way more zen then driving in crap traffic. Plus it saves the money vs the toll roads here where I live. Costs me about $18 to drive to the office round trip with the gas and the tolls, train is $7 round trip..
@@JimBronson what you say makes sense. It seems it's in the interest of car companies that make trucks to move you to trucks because they have higher price points (larger revenue numbers) and better margins (higher profits), and thereby not make spacious cars that can work for a section of customers. I'm glad you're able to take the train and save on time and cost 👏; the car companies have consistently worked against public transport to keep us dependent on cars and they don't care if you spend hours on roads everyday going to and from work. Thanks for engaging in the conversation and responding with an aspect that may not come to mind.
I don't like trucks. I can haul 2x4's,water heaters,fence pickets in my hatch back I paid $500 for...
Still have the sticker to my 2000 F350 lariat FX4 with v10. The sticker on that was 32k which is about 52k in todays money. Crazy that same thing would be about 70k
The only problem is......new trucks are selling like crazy despite the assanine prices the dealers and manufacturers know it doesn't matter...the only change coming is higher prices.
People seem to love big payments. It's like they don't know any better. Like the bigger the payments the bigger the bragging rights. It's just foolish to pay these prices period
Aside from the rediculous high price there is the idiocy of veering away from stuff that works ... straight V6 or V8 engines for example. Fewer electronic stuff maybe and less fancy schmancy stuff maybe, after all it's a truck!! And a decent low interest payment plan might get some attention.
Was at two Chevy dealers this week, both said they cannot keep 2500's on the lot, selling them as fast as they can get them in. Both said most buyers want the highest trim level available also. They said they don't see any big discounts coming on GM trucks any time soon.
Yeah which is exactly why these auto makers are offering Mercedes level interiors on a damn pickup and charging $100K for them. Because people want them and are willing to pay for them.
(2000) median income $32K (2023) $36K. (2000)$168K New Home (2023)$425K. (2000)New Car $22K (2023) $51K .source US Debt Clock. How flat wages are compared to housing and transportation are is scary 🏡 🚙
I sold Chevies and Caddies from 2005 to 2009, and can corroborate what you say about pricing "back in the day." Our selling price on Silverado work trucks was $17K (6 cyl, reg cab, longbed, 2WD.) Our selling price on a nicely trimmed Silverado LT was about $27K (X-cab, medium bed, cloth seats, 4WD, 5.3, factory tranny cooler and tow package). These were the most-commonly sold trucks. We had a few upper-end models with super-fancy leather interiors. So let's picture one of the mac-daddy models with everything. Leather seats, electric mirrors, you name it. With the 5.3L engine, the highest-possible list price would have been somewhere between $50K and $55K. You might have been able to knock $5,000 or $7,000 off that, by negotiating hard and waiting for rebate season.
So absolutely, we had super-fancy trucks back then, just like we do today. We just didn't push them on people. What the customers wanted was the practical and affordable Silverado LT for $27K. This model probably accounted for 70 to 75 percent of our truck sales. It was a fine truck. It didn't have everything you wanted, but it had everything you needed. I haven't looked at new pickups in years. But as this tragic story emerges from dealerships across the country, I get that this type of truck at this type of price just ain't around anymore.
Are Ford and Chevy really this stupid? Well, when you consider that they also abandoned sedans at a time when government edicts were about raise the price of gas -- maybe yes. Tragedy is right.
I see the same trucks on the dealer lots near me for months. 60+ grand F150's with the tiny little 2.7L four banger. 70-100K for the loaded ones! They shuffle them around the lot, sometimes hiding them to pretend inventory is moving.😂
Lol while I agree with your entire comment, just an fyi, ford’s 2.7 is a v6, chevy’s 2.7 is a 4 banger. But yes, I have seen the same thing here where I am as well
I have always bought base model trucks. I don't want all the bells and whistles in my pickups. I also want an 8ft bed. I use my truck as a truck. It hauls stuff, and tows my trailers. What I want, basically doesn't exist! The last 10 years I have been buying older trucks and rebuilding them. In the long run, I end up spending less, they're more reliable, and they don't rust in 5 years like the new ones do.
My apologies to the UAW workers. You may have gotten the raises you wanted, but the new contracts will put the car makers out of business and/or move production to other countries.
If this advice is heeded then I and people like me might consider re-enter the new pick up or luxury suv market. I could certainly afford it but it’s just not a good investment just to look good. I need more value!!! Not more sheckles being drained and not more buttons that will brake and make the repair shop a big part of my life. The auto guys from top ceos to shareholders to unions have overreached and overestimated what their value is.
No one can afford to buy a new truck anymore. Truck manufacturers have driven most of us out of the market.
As a lifelong truck owner my occupation is construction. Can't live without one. I completely agree with your analysis. The last few years I've wanted to trade in my 2005 Lariat, but after pricing newer F-150's, absolutely no way. I'll keep my 2005 for now...
Same same here in Colorado,
It’s all profit with that truck paid for.
I also love my old favorite tools.
All are my old friends
Truck prices are INSANE. What idiot would buy a pick up truck for more than $40k?
Here in Ontario Canada the market is identical to the USA. Good luck finding anything with 6’6” box. Everything is 5’5”. Rare to find extended cab all crews.
Yep! I have been looking for an ext cab long bed GMC Sierra with with the 3.0 Duramax and they are like finding unicorns...
It is a manipulation of "options" by the manufacturers to maximize profit. It costs less to only produce one cab size, then they pack it with gadgets that increase the cost of the truck. I prefer the extended cabs but 90% of what is available are crew cabs. The few extended cabs I have seen are mostly barebones base models. It a choice of two extremes, and most people will not choose barebones. The Big 3 know this so they will do all they can to force you into the more expensive model.
My 2000 F150 has been making me just as much money as a new one would. I have working A/C. That's good enough.
All you need to do to update an older truck is put a new Pioneer head unit in it. My 2006 might be my last truck.
Pioneer Super Tuner
I love my 03 tundra. No loan, it’s super clean, very reliable and it does literally every single thing I need it to.
Agree. Bought a lifted 2002 GMC Sierra 2500hd 4x4 8.1lL for 12k three years ago. Blue tooth stereo upgrade and it does every thing a truck needs to do. Pull a fifth wheel with it. No trunk payment. No bells and whistles
@@MrSergio608 I love my F250 hd, 2wd, T444E, 5 sp, lsd, long bed but rust in Vermont is taking its toll. I still haul well over 1.5T on occasion but one day it will fail.
My 2012 F-150 Lariat 4x4 was 48k msrp. Today same options msrp is around 68k. Ridiculous. Auto manufacturers have lost their minds. I'll never again buy a new vehicle.
Thanks for the video. Perfectly Stated, crazy prices for the average family to have to deal with. 😱
The reason I no longer drive a full-size pick up is that they have become so big. Step back and look at a new Ford or Chevy pick up and realize just how huge they are. Keeping them between the lines and finding a parking place for them has become unpleasant. Getting up into the bed, or even climbing in behind the wheel is a chore. Most of them require some sort of running boards or steps, sometimes with the addition of a grab handle or grab bar. They are just too big to be fun and convenient.
I blame middle aged office dads in a midlife crisis pumping up demand artifically. The crewcab pickup is dads station wagon now. Goto any little leauge or flag football game and its all f150 ram1500 crewcabs..
All driven buy guys who use them as minivans.
But you have no idea how they use them... other than needing to take their family places in it.
@@penumbra14502/3 of all minivan drivers are men
One thing to consider here, is that we were still working out way out of the financial crisis in 2010. Prices for everything were depressed at that time, including trucks. So anytime you compare up against a depressed period, things are going to look skewed. A better comparison would be, say, 2015 to 2018 vs today. Now, I'll be the 1st to admit that things are slowing up somewhat in the automotive sector, but that slowdown is coming off a period where dealerships were selling their trucks for $10,000 over MSRP. So, at some point it had to happen. Now, how slow it will ultimately get is anyone's guess. Much of that will likely depend upon interest rates.
Truck prices are just insane these days. Just 6 years ago, my loaded 2017 Sierra SLT 6.2L stickered at just under $57k…got it for $42k out the door.
The same 2023 Sierra would sticker for $70-$72k…and with the lame (for now) discounts and incentives it’s too damn expensive and not worth the money.
My local ford dealer is still doing a 2k "dealer experience" on every new vehicle. The "experience" is "state of the art service shop, first oil change free, and a couple other things" all things that before covid, were just included in the purchase of a new vehicle.
Your right the truck prices have gone crazy. I remember buying my F-250 diesel lariat for 55k with every option. That same truck today would be 90k+.
F-150 purchased an 2010 lariat for 42k. My 18 I got a 150 lariat diesel for 47. At the same time the gmc at4 in 18/19 was 55 same truck today is 70+
Bottom line is they got greedy. Since they became the popular vehicle the price went up like crazy. They decided that is the whole future and obviously that is shrinking because fuel prices.
Hit the nail on the head. Pure greed. We have to stop blaming inflation, costs, and even labor. With automakers even bragging about record profits quarter after quarter, and the price increases seemingly every 6 months, it all adds up. All of that said, I do place a small piece of blame on the consumer. There was a reason why the Big 3 didn't punish dealers for charging far beyond MSRP pricing(remember the craziness when the Bronco came out? Or Vette? Any SRT vehicle? Yep, all 3 were guilty). Buyers didn't care and had the latest and greatest and paid dearly for it. At the same time, all manufacturers were grossly raising prices, forcing everything to insanely and very unattainable prices.
The bubble has burst and lots are full of trucks for that reason.
Look around. It isn't just trucks. It's EVERYTHING. Honda Accords are selling for $49-51K in some states. Prices on some VWs have jumped $4K and there is NOTHING different between them and the 2020 models!
@@largol33t1 yes everything as gone up. But still doesn’t mean that it’s gotten excessive. The margin on pickups and suv is insane the mfg have said that is what feeds the rest. When you can buy an HD for almost the same price as a half ton you know it’s out of wack
Steel & Labor is more expensive and with the new union contracts, MSRP pricing isn't coming down anytime soon. The Big 3 are just trying to lease their cars cheap now and hopefully sell them at higher prices when rates are lower in 2-3 years. There will be big discounts coming but not what we saw pre-covid.
Ford nailed it with the Maverick. But then the prices quickly started climbing. Not the value it was in the beginning. But they still selling every one they make. I waited 18 months for my 2022. Sticker was $28,005 for a hybrid XLT with Lux and CP360. That’s what I paid.
I can drive BMW 740 2019 for $28k with real leather ,wood and 400hp.
The maverick isn't a real truck. It's an incomplete suv.
It'll carry two bags of potatoes nicely
@@gordmonteath6090 no, 3! (And still two kids in the backseat…)
an old El Camino is more of a truck than a Maverick. At least the El CARmino has a steel frame.
you are absolutely right. I bought a RAM 2500 diesel marked $85k. It does not have value for that price!!! I got a big discount but everything was wrong when they marked at that price and so many flows in quality. I end up selling her after 2000 miles because i could not digest the price of $75k i paid for her.
Not a fan of Luxury pickups, but I was just surfing on Car and Driver. The F150 Lariat had a starting MSRP of $43k in 2019. For 2024, the starting MSRP for the Lariat is $67k!!!
Exactly the problem. I just bought a truck but the only reason why 15% off msrp and hemi v8.
@@nordlandak6853
Nice! I've always been a fan of Ram trucks. Currently in the market for my first non-truck, a Dodge Challenger with the Hemi.
I bought an '06 Chevy 1500 for 12k 6 years ago, which has @ 250k miles on it now. Sure, some things break down, but I just keep fixing it. It can tow 7200 lbs, and gets over 20 mpg on the highway. I'm a retired high school teacher; anything over $22k for a vehicle is out of the question, and that's pushing it.
The US has a tariff on trucks built outside US-Canada-Mexico. Tacomas and Mavericks are assembled in Mexico, I believe. So cheaper assembly can be done in Mexico, but I'm not sure a mass move of full sized trucks there will maintain build quality. And anywhere else less expensive means the import tariff wipes out the cost savings.
US built cars are the opposite of quality.
@user-tt6il2up4o Compared to Mexico? US build quality has suffered, but in many instances what's made in Mexico is faring worse; this is somewhat maker-dependent.
@@lumberjeff0 Yeah, it depends on the maker
Higher prices lower quality. Truck market collapsing. go figure..
What ever happened to the work truck with no options?
I don’t see them lowering prices. What they’ll do is simply produce less and less until that supply meets demand…at the same price point that is.
Best video you’ve ever done, Ben. Great points.
In June 23, I moved back the United States, and needed a pickup. I shopped used and prices were ridiculous! A used truck with 50K miles for 50K??? I don't think so.... So I switched to new, and shopped only Ram because I didn't want a 2.7 turbo or a 6 cylinder. I shopped two dealers and I negoiated two deals on Ram 1500 Hemi longhorn Crew and Quadcab 4x4. My final choice was a Longhorn quadcab 4x4 Hemi and tow package with 13K off MSRP. so 2023 Longhorn, MSRP of 57000$, final price 43000K. Out the door price of about 47000. The other deal that I walked away from was a Crewcab for about 11K off MSRP. would have been about 46K final price. So upshot is that deals can be made and dealers have to sell these units.
You did OK which saved you some money which will come in handy when the darn thing starts with the problems everyone is seeing with the quality. Good job.
Ben, you make some good points. I wanted to mention that the income figures you stated and the truck price "compare" going back to 2010 or so? Well, you are still working sort of in the distorted era. If I had an email for you, I'd send the window sticker of a truck we bought as newlyweds in 1975. It was a Toyota small pickup and it was ~$3500. Pretty basic, yes, but it was also about 1/4th of our combined incomes, this with one full time and one of us working part time as a grad student. I continued to buy trucks over the years as second vehicles and another very specific purchase I recall making was a 1989 Ford F-150 "Texas special" for $9995. It had a standard trans, the basics, saddle gas tanks . . . and again, it was just a fraction of our then combined incomes. Odd . . . our first several homes were purchased at income multiples not that much greater than now it appears trucks command. It'd be cheap credit coupled with the fact that Americans became super consumers and largely payment buyers. They really don't care about window stickers . . . just tell them how much down and how much a month. Anyway, this truck pricing can't last but I'll be danged if I know how it gets corrected.
The parking lot where I work is full of full-sized commuter trucks. Most of the management suite drive a truck or SUV of some sort.
large sedans went extinct thanks to government regs.
The trucks went luxury and their prices are ridiculous.
Just bought a used 2022 Nissan Frontier with 13k miles, fully loaded, for $32k. After waiting 6 months, I'm fairly happy with the purchase.
The US truck market isn’t nearly as bad as it has been in the past. I remember 15 years ago truck discounts of $10k that was a much larger percentage discount than anything you are seeing now.
I don't need a 100k plastic boat. I'll take a little asian work truck any day of the week.
My credit score is over 825 and I drive a 25 year old truck.
I would love to buy new but I don't want to be a debt slave.
I was perusing my local gmc website to check prices. Some of the 1500 trims are over 60K and only have cloth seats. That's just simply unacceptable when you're spending that much.
Great video. I bought a brand new Ram 1500 Laramie in 2011, fully loaded, for $42k. You couldn’t fit another option into this truck. The truck is still in the picture and doing well, but it’s getting to about the point where I’m ready for a trade. I’m just not willing to spend what the dealers want these days. The same truck would easily go for almost $80k today.
Yup... I work in manufacturing and see a lot of $65K+ trucks in the parking lots in our industrial park, most likely driven by guys making $40-$50K tops. There's only so much guys can pay for a truck and manufacturers have gotten too far away from the original purpose of a pick-up truck.
Well hopefully you paid closer to $35k or less. That truck might be work 1/3 or less than what you paid. Now Ram is throwing around 15k off their pickups but they are still way overpriced
News Flash !!! The prices aren't coming down.