As a black man nothing upsets me faster than a black person testifying about a religious belief system that was forced on our ancestors, but he hasn't been culturally indoctrinated. Also he wouldn't be quiet long enough to hear or digest anything anyone was saying.
It is sad the way European empires did their best to enslave the world, and that their religion was right there when they arrived, along with the people carrying guns... And they succeeded _so well_ that the victims of their empire-building remain the greatest religious zealots centuries later.
@@whodey2112 I agree with you. Everyone who is raised in the United States is culturally indoctrinated regarding Christianity. However, that does not necessarily mean that one will ultimately believe in the Christian God.
Atheists deny reality and reason in their blind belief. They just REALLY hope to be right ;) Imagine wasting your life on something you CLAIM you don't believe in and you hate. One day some of you will realize this after much regret and shame. The empty, horrible, depressed, p--n-addicted, alcohol and antidepressant filled, degenerate lives that atheists live is also proof that God is saying the Truth about sin. They all check at least 2 or 3 of these things. And if you're a teenager living with your parents, you will become that way in the future, UNLESS you repent and give your life to Jesus Christ. I used to be an antitheist too. I was deceived by atheist lies, strawmans, fake studies, fake experts and frauds for many years so I know all the atheist "arguments" very well. I despised all religions and saw them as plagues upon humanity but then Jesus showed me the Truth like He also did for many other agnostics and atheists too. He'll do the same for you, if you seek the truth in a humble and sincere manner. I know at least some of you are able to do that if you truly want it. God already proved everyone that He exists and it's everyone's job to seek the Truth for themselves and to get right with Him. NO EXCUSES. All those who are SINCERE and actually want the truth will find God. Those that are not, should expect to receive nothing but deception(of any kind), misery and great confusion. The most degenerate atheists will find any excuse to deny FACTS and reality, including the Knowledge and Experience of billions of people(trough all history, I'm not talking all professing Christians, of course), as Christianity is a LIVING relationship with the Creator, not a dead religion of works and rituals, nor a blind, irrational belief like atheism is. And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me WITH ALL YOUR HEART. Jeremiah 29:13 KJV
If only the townspeople of Sodom had been hospitable to Hermes and Zeus, Sodom would not have been destroyed. They came face to face with two gods and didn't recognized them. I'll bet they were Southern Baptists. In Ovid's moralizing fables collected as Metamorphoses is his telling of the story of Baucis and Philemon, which stands on the periphery of Greek mythology and Roman mythology. Baucis and Philemon were an old married couple in the region of Tyana, which Ovid places in Phrygia, and the only ones in their town to welcome disguised gods Zeus and Hermes(in Roman mythology, Jupiter and Mercury respectively), thus embodying the pious exercise of hospitality, the ritualized guest-friendship termed xenia, or theoxenia when a god was involved.
@@ministryofarguments3525 The Torah writers copied myths from which Zeus/Jupiter/Indra is the supreme god. In the beginning, Zeus/Jupiter/Indra created Heaven and Earth.
Forest argument about the "elephant on the other side of the wall" was a perfect analogy that apparently the caller completely ignored to then say something as bad as this.
This is technically true, though. If he isn't wrong about God existing, then Forrest and Johnny would be wrong to not believe in God. It doesn't make him correct cause it's just a tautology, but it's not an incorrect statement.
Depending on who has the better arguments. I don't think that all are stupid. They are just used to thinking that way. I have a friend who doesn't understand some Christian arguments, but it doesn't mean that these are wrong
@@jhadow1869he is saying, arguments aside, that trying to teach or explain anything to a dumb mind cant work. But an intellectual minded person can change there view on topic more easily when presented with evidence..doesnt work in reverse.
A few points that I have!... 1. Scientists say that a single cell organism arriving from elements is impossible. It would already need multiple complex functions all working in harmony right from the start. Thinking and moving, having a will, being able to split in two, consuming and excreting, managing whatever it intakes, surviving the elements, ect... Not to mention all of it's intricate components internally! It would have to blindly design itself from whatever was around it, and it would need to be able to think first before it could do that. 2. You are believing that the laws of physics just blindly created themselves and all of the complex life we see around us. Nothing has ever happened without a cause. How is it more believable that "it just happened" vs a designer being the cause? 3. None of us made ourselves, where were you before you were born into existence? And then when we die,... You don't think that it is possible to be born into existence again?
@@hunterhestekin7420 1. That is called a 'strawman' argument....you describe something that sounds close to what happened, if you haven't learnt what did happen (what we already know). What you describe is actually creation and if it did occur would refute evolution. "....and it would need to be able to think.......".... Plants turn to the sun...do they think ? . Slime molds can navigate mazes...do they think? White blood cells will chase and envelope invading organisms.. do they think ? If your answer isn't automatically "of course not", and/or you fail to make the connection...then pls go look them up and find out. 2. And this is called the 'puddle analogy'. Go look that up as well. 3. Me, myself and I....What you think of as 'you' is a emergent property of your brain...."You" changed slowly (relatively) over time, and will continue to do so as your experience things. There was no "you" before you were born, and after your brain activity stops, there will be no "you" for the rest of time. There are decades and decades of medical records that show this beyond the shadow of any doubt. This is why a lot of atheists think believers are wasting the one and only life we know for sure is real, pining for a future life that has only ever existed in stories.
@@theriffwriter2194 Not any more Sir as i found they don't have to practice this torturing slave driven experience no longer. because of the new covenant king james comes up with 800 years later. the New Covenant relieved people from this blood sacrifice practice. Just one little problem comes along with the new cove. if they didn't believe King J and his new law He would have them incinorated or beheaded. NUTS it just got worse 800 years later in the year 1500.🤔 i guess later years are harder to keep the gullible in Belief . the true loving honest non manipulating creater is coming soon and will wake the blood sacri- God and kick him back far away enough in to the any thing was still Nothing Days..🤔🙃😁
"I'm not the type of person to support my position with evidence." What an aggressive commitment to ignorance. We should all aspire to be so intellectually honest
It's based on two things; rewarding "believing" instead of proving AND heaven/hell being dangled over someone's head. I can't think of anything else that would cause a normally reasoned person to make such a statement and avoid the idiocy of it.
I feel so sorry for Mike's wife and children. Not because of his belief system but because of his absolute ability to have the right position without reason or evidence. I can hear him now, "Im right and youre wrong just because I know. Now do what I say."
Jesus came to set the slaves free . It was white Christians who set the slaves free , over 300,000 white boys gave their lives to set the black slaves free . Jesus said “ Greater love has no man than this , that he should lay down his life for his friends, I have called you friends “
@@jwsanders1214 So, SOME white folks undid SOME OF the damage that other white folks caused? If I start a fire and after it has caused lots of damage, I put it out, am I a hero then?
You said: "he moved those goal posts like it was nothing!" Yeah, ALTHOUGH he probably didn't know he did. My thought on the conversation are: This was a frustrating conversation. There was a lot of talking past each other. Johnny and Forrest was of course right, but the caller had "swallowed" a lot of argumentation about how the world works that probably are untrue (and unexamined), and they caused Johnny's and Forrest's words to be ineffectual. HERE ARE SOME "CON-MAN MINES" THAT I THINK IS IN THE CALLER'S HEAD (most likely): 1. The separation of "intellectualism" from "experience." He probably see experience as REAL and intellectualism as self delusion (the vanity of comparing wits with God). 1.b. His: - You can't tell me that my experiences were wrong. Now, this is true of course BUT: a) you cannot TRANSFER truth to another by saying YOU had an experience and b) human experience is NOTORIOUSLY unreliable! 2. The belief that there is a difference between "feelings" and "the Spirit" (these words were not used, but were almost CERTAINLY a premise for the caller's reasoning). The demagogs he listens to have separated out part of people's feelings and called it "the Spirit" so they can admit that, yeah you shouldn't follow your feelings, you should follow "the Spirit of God" 2.b. Emotional church techniques explained as «the Spirit of God," but that in fact is something psychology can explain 3. Confusion about what KNOWING is There are often other "mines" that I can't think of now, and together they tend to derail the conversation. «Arresting" them and showing their UNPRODUCTIVENESS could cause a lot of misunderstandings to go away
Atheists deny reality and reason in their blind belief. They just REALLY hope to be right ;) Imagine wasting your life on something you CLAIM you don't believe in and you hate. One day some of you will realize this after much regret and shame. The empty, horrible, depressed, p--n-addicted, alcohol and antidepressant filled, degenerate lives that atheists live is also proof that God is saying the Truth about sin. They all check at least 2 or 3 of these things. And if you're a teenager living with your parents, you will become that way in the future, UNLESS you repent and give your life to Jesus Christ. I used to be an antitheist too. I was deceived by atheist lies, strawmans, fake studies, fake experts and frauds for many years so I know all the atheist "arguments" very well. I despised all religions and saw them as plagues upon humanity but then Jesus showed me the Truth like He also did for many other agnostics and atheists too. He'll do the same for you, if you seek the truth in a humble and sincere manner. I know at least some of you are able to do that if you truly want it. God already proved everyone that He exists and it's everyone's job to seek the Truth for themselves and to get right with Him. NO EXCUSES. All those who are SINCERE and actually want the truth will find God. Those that are not, should expect to receive nothing but deception(of any kind), misery and great confusion. The most degenerate atheists will find any excuse to deny FACTS and reality, including the Knowledge and Experience of billions of people(trough all history, I'm not talking all professing Christians, of course), as Christianity is a LIVING relationship with the Creator, not a dead religion of works and rituals, nor a blind, irrational belief like atheism is. And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me WITH ALL YOUR HEART. Jeremiah 29:13 KJV
Atheists deny reality and reason in their blind belief. They just REALLY hope to be right ;) Imagine wasting your life on something you CLAIM you don't believe in and you hate. One day some of you will realize this after much regret and shame. The empty, horrible, depressed, p--n-addicted, alcohol and antidepressant filled, degenerate lives that atheists live is also proof that God is saying the Truth about sin. They all check at least 2 or 3 of these things. And if you're a teenager living with your parents, you will become that way in the future, UNLESS you repent and give your life to Jesus Christ. I used to be an antitheist too. I was deceived by atheist lies, strawmans, fake studies, fake experts and frauds for many years so I know all the atheist "arguments" very well. I despised all religions and saw them as plagues upon humanity but then Jesus showed me the Truth like He also did for many other agnostics and atheists too. He'll do the same for you, if you seek the truth in a humble and sincere manner. I know at least some of you are able to do that if you truly want it. God already proved everyone that He exists and it's everyone's job to seek the Truth for themselves and to get right with Him. NO EXCUSES. All those who are SINCERE and actually want the truth will find God. Those that are not, should expect to receive nothing but deception(of any kind), misery and great confusion. The most degenerate atheists will find any excuse to deny FACTS and reality, including the Knowledge and Experience of billions of people(trough all history, I'm not talking all professing Christians, of course), as Christianity is a LIVING relationship with the Creator, not a dead religion of works and rituals, nor a blind, irrational belief like atheism is. And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me WITH ALL YOUR HEART. Jeremiah 29:13 KJV
@@jquest99 If he was a “skeptic” he wouldn’t admit there’s no evidence for the thing he worships by making everyone else do the work. He seemingly knows his god isn’t real but doesn’t care.
I can (more or less) forgive him for that. People get "excited" when it comes to their most cherished beliefs and there's also probably quite a bit of fear there also about loosing your faith. So things get a bit intense. It is not helpful though ..
They say that because they don't really know what an atheist is. One christian told me he used to be an atheist because he used to hate God and that he would even curse God out daily. You know, like us atheists are known to do....
I spent the first 13 years of my life in church. I've spent the next 65 years learning all religions and trying to convince myself of God. It didn't work.
I have a similar background. I was a Christian and read the Bible to get stronger in my beliefs but it really only led to my deconversion. That and I've always been into mythology so I saw a lot of similarities with Christianity and other religions. At one point when I was reading the Bible I remember thinking that it just felt like I was reading a boring book of fairytales.
"I am not highly susceptible, but I believe in some of the most improbable and ridiculous bullsh*t mankind has ever come up with." "I was a bigger sceptic than you both, but I came to believe in some of the most improbable and ridiculous bullsh*it mankind has ever come up with." Mike was as unintentionally hilarious as he was unpleasant during this conversation.
Since God is omnipotent, he can turn everyone who used to be a Skeptic like Mike into theists. And THAT'S why we have no more atheists, proving that God exists! If God did NOT exist, we would still have people denying his existence and having TH-cam shows talking about the experience of atheists!
It's actually one of the most common "arguments" I've heard all my life - even one I used myself back when I was a believer. There's even an old hymn in the Baptist tradition that says something like, "You ask me how I know he lives. He lives within my heart." It might shock people to know just how common Mike's terrible argument is, especially here in the Bible Belt of the US.
As someone who grew up around Fundamentalism, I highly doubt he “grew up an Atheist.” This is a common conversion trick they try to “appeal to the skeptic.” What most likely happened was while he grew up all around Christianity, he never started taking it that seriously until like College or something. If you listen, he even starts to say how he “grew up in a Christian household.”
Yeah... like, we all know, that atheists aren't "real" atheists... they're all just "angry with god for some ptty reason" or "haven't found their real inner truth yet". Same kind of 'argument'.
He said he grew up in a Christian household but didn't believe it until a certain date. Pretty much every former atheist caller I've seen has just been a theist who had a rebellious phase in their teens. It's almost like clockwork, next time you see one i almost guarantee that's the case
I love how he said "all your knowledge and information should be able to prove that I'm wrong" and then like 1 minute later said that he "never said or even implied" that very thing.
I haven't listen to this video however all of their knowledge and information should prove he is wrong, but it doesn't. That don't make him right but it doesn't make him wrong either.
@@tommy32408 you haven't listened to the video meaning you have no fucking idea of the context. And also, just no. If you make an unfalsifiable claim, there is no amount of knowledge or information on the world that would PROVE that claim wrong because that's what unfalsifiable means.
@@tommy32408Seeing as how the claim of a god is an unfalsifiable claim, it can't even be proven wrong. At every step along the way of rational questioning into the belief of god, the believers could make excuses as to why those questions don't dismantle their worldview. It's the same thing as me saying, "I have a magical unicorn in my garage at home." Every step of the way of someone questioning the existence of my unicorn, I could give reasons as to why their questions weren't poking holes in my claim of a unicorn. "Could I see pictures of this unicorn?" "No, my unicorn is invisible." And so on and so forth. We have no way to prove the claim of a god wrong, just as we have no evidence to prove the claim of magical unicorns wrong. There's no way to prove either one of them wrong, but they also both lack any evidence to support their claims in the first place. A rational thinker should only hold viewpoints that are based on facts and evidence. There are no facts or evidence that support the existence of unicorns. However, that lack of evidence supporting the existence of unicorns isn't a valid reason to say that unicorns definitely don't exist or have never existed. So, it is not rational to say that they do or don't exist when you don't have concrete evidence for either claim. The same goes for god. You must simply not accept any and all claims until one of them provides sufficient evidence to do so. Lastly, even if atheists could disprove the claim of a god, that wouldn't be required for them to simply state their non-belief. The burden of proof ALWAYS lies on someone making a positive claim. Non-belief (the position of atheists) doesn't mean one is making any positive claims (claims like "God does/doesn't exist.") Non-belief simply means one doesn't believe the religious claims that a god exists due to the lack of evidence supporting the claim. To disbelieve a claim holds no burden of proof. One doesn't need to disprove the magical unicorn in my garage for them to have the ability not to believe my claim of a pet unicorn. It's the same way that atheists don't need to disprove god simply to say "I don't believe this claim due to the lack of sufficient evidence supporting it." Why make the extraordinary claim of a supernatural god's existence when there hasn't been any extraordinary evidence supporting that claim in the whole history of mankind?
“Christian culture has no effect on me” says man who lives in a predominantly Christian nation, surrounded at all times by all of the elements and influences of Christianity, who (big surprise) “found” his way into Christianity. And he skepticked so much harder, too!
Honestly the frustration in his voice is such a tell that he would choose violence at the first opportunity. Exactly what the church loves in its followers. Irrational, closed off, and quick to anger
Mike when he says how he was an even bigger sceptic than Johnny or Forrest and was, "very sadly grounded in reality... but I changed one day." Love it 😆
@@teuast I personally think if someone is not using any prounouns then we should call them by their sex because probability of their sex and gender being same is high maybe that's why they don't feel this need to specify their gender.
@@neilbeaton9498 I do not think it is entertaining to me. I would say "frustrating". This is the kind of caller who will NEVER be convinced of anything that disagrees with his opinion, whether religious or not.
Seriously, they're in every family if you're unlucky enough to end up in these types of conversations - even worse if you're a female atheist like me and they know
Agree. But Mike was such a simple minded ignorant that thought they were simply saying that because he believes in god, then he must also believe in unicorns. People like this, sadly, don’t deserve great explanations, they deserve mockery and ridicule.
@@EmiSuess Ugg, it is always Florida....what the hell is in the water down there? Then again, maybe its the koolaid mix....they should stop drinking the koolaid
20:42 is when Mike finally revealed WHY he believes (with under three minutes left). After all the preamble and diversion. Twenty minutes to get to “I heard a voice in my head”
That was the same thing that my dad says. He says it with such pride, thinking that God spoke him, not realizing he sounds crazy af to most normal people.
@@totallytravicious5919 I think the perception of Forrest's naivete comes from his willingness to hear the same arguments over and over, and his earnest attitude while doing so, making it appear that he genuinely expects a different result, like the kid who just lost 10 rigged carnival games but is still excited to play the next one because he is SURE he will win this time. To some degree, I understand that it really is him just trying to give the benefit of the doubt, and the majority of the time he doesn't actually believe he will hear anything different, he is just willing to give people enough time to trip over their own words before he points out why they have fallen flat on their faces without him even doing anything. It can still be frustrating watching him talk in circles for 45 minutes with the same person, but a lot of that has to do with his background as an educator, which I can definitely understand and sympathize with, having done the same thing on multiple occasions. It is worth mentioning though, that there are some things which he will still IMMEDIATELY shut down, and refuse to even entertain for a moment, which is how I know that he isn't really that naive.
Lol but Mason you have the word hold in your name😂You should be able to "hold" on with the best of them. Sorry couldn't help myself all in good humor I agree with your comment I'd have no patience for a person who speaks like that either
That was painful. Mike: Prove God isn't real TAE: Prove the unicorn in my garage isn't real Mike: That's not the same thing. Jesus spoke to me Zeus spoke to me That's not the same thing Jesus sacrificed himself for us Lots of gods have sacrificed themselves for us That's not the same thing
It's how I see it, too. Repeat callers or not do I see it as only educating new people entering atheism and also further giving those like myself and you all the more to learn about the theistic views of religion and just how ridiculous it truly is in the world today. Like, while I knew that he'd go silent when Forrest mentioned those other gods within the other worldwide religions, though it'd been predictable that Mike would grow silent? I'm sure that these type of things however were able to bring out the possible within our community. I'm sure that it has be it silently or not.
It's sad to see so many people experience a hallucination and attribute it to something "spiritual", as opposed to our own imagination (or perhaps, psychosis).
If you have no evidence that my spiritual encounter was a hallucination, then you can't prove me wrong. That's the beauty of belief, you need no evidence. However, I accept the most likely and most logical as well as rational explanation for my spiritual encounter was an hallucination.
@@davidvarley1812 I believe and had a premonition last night that one day cats will run the world and Kitty Splice will be reborn and unless we repent for all our sins we will be sent to Litterbox for eternity scooping Kittyfer's little "presents" for infinity unless we give our lives to Kitty Splice right meow!!!!🐈🐈⬛🐈🐈⬛🐈🐈⬛🐈 YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE TO PROVE ME WRONG!!! BOW DOWN BEFORE KITTY!!!!! YAWEIII HATH SPOKEN!!!😾😾😾😾😾😾😾😾😾😾😾😾😾 So let it be written, so let it be done!!!!!!! It's in the ancient feline scrolls 📜 and scriptures. DO NOT CHALLENGE ME YOU NON BELIEVER!!! MAY THE FUZZY CLAWS HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL. OH AND BUY MY CD's they are Catmas themed🐱🎄🎁🧶
@@davidvarley1812 You're confusing faith with belief, belief has a reasonable amount of evidence. You're using blind faith but at least you seem honest about it.
The call screeners need to explain to every caller that they’re not in charge of the Atheist Experience. Callers like Mike keep saying “Hold on” as if they believe they are in charge of the show.
I really feel bad for so many, that have been lied to as children. I dont speak about my personal belief usually, i appreciate your content. We need more transparancy in the world
Forrest is just the most patient and gentle person. He has to be paired with someone who is not so, to balance it. If Forest V and Tom Hiddleston met, they would open a door to Elysium with their pure goodness.
I always find the show to be stronger when there is one dominant voice, whether it was Matt or now Forrest. I get kind of frustrated when the co-host interrupts the train of thought of the host. Forrest (for example) has this measured, methodical way of politely leading the caller to the dead ends in their own arguments. But his more confident co-hosts usually interrupt his process for much more boring interactions filled with condescension or combative sniping. Forrest is good at meeting the caller where they're at, and starting his process there. In this call, Johhny seemed more interested in scoring cheap points by making fun of the caller's speech patterns. He was playing to the audience. Forrest tries to have an actual conversation with the caller.
@@MaximilliansHammer I can see your point. I suppose I like the pairing of Forrest with a ruder co-host only because some of these callers really need to be treated roughly, as they, themselves, are also grossly rude.
@@MaximilliansHammer100%. All the non-Forrest hosts I’ve seen on here are the people folk are thinking of when they picture a smug internet atheist. Watching someone joyfully rip the piss out of a stupid (or ignorant, or ill-informed) person isn’t particularly entertaining. It’s fish in a barrel - and who is it for? Is 99.99% of the audience here not other atheists? Disclaimer: I’m as atheist as anybody here; just feel like a lot of these episodes, when it’s a conversation with Regular Joe Godbotherer, you’re transparently punching down.
It's funny when Christians bring up that Christianity is the only religion with a God sacrificing himself. They don't know anything about comparative religion and don't know how much the Bible stole from myths and folklore around at the time. The worst part is that Jesus barely sacrificed anything since he knew that he wasn't going to really die. Compare him to Prometheus who gave humans the gift of fire (and didn't put some stupid condition to use it). And he's continually suffering for it.
What I considered amusing, is that Jesus being sacrificing for our sins, is one of the theological claims that convinced me I didn't believe in Christianity. It's just too absurd for me to swallow. I also dislike the implications of a theology that forgives people for being bad, rather than focusing on helping them not be bad.
@stevewebber707 Christianity basically has no real morality. You could commit the worst crime, like genocide of God's chosen people, but you just need to accept Christ. But you could be a scared little girl hiding in an attic, but just because she's not a Christian, off she goes to be punished for an eternity. 🙄 Where's the morality?
@@jquest99 Yeah, I'm definitely not a fan of Christian variants that claim salvation is granted simply by professing belief. Though they don't all do that. If you interpret the bible differently than them, faith without works is meaningless. And I think that a more true interpretation of the bible. I see where you are coming from, since if there is no requirement to stop sinning in order to be granted salvation, it makes a mockery of the claims of justice and accountability. There are versions of Christianity that insist following Jesus entails a lot more than simply believing in him. I'm not trying to blame folks for disagreeing on that theology. I blame the bible for being vague and somewhat inconsistent on that subject. Ok, maybe I blame the folks a bit for trusting that bible too much... I'm not going to make claims about Christian morality, until a coherent form of morality is defined and presented. And the label "Christian", is simply not sufficient. There is morality presented in the bible. Though it can be controversial, and interpreted in very different ways. I think the closest it gets to common ground for morality I can agree with, is the golden rule. The OT commandments are pretty hit and miss, and it's debatable which if any, are considered to be valid now.
Indeed, this line of reasoning makes zero sense in my brain. To me it sounds like "I gave you a hundred bucks you didnt ask for, later I took them back and now you're forever in my debt".
You guys are amazing I was brought up in a school that preached the bible as fact I became an atheist when I learned to think for myself and question what I was being taught but I never understood the horrors and oppression of what religion does until I listened to the late great Christopher Hitchens. keep up the good work guys and if your ever in the UK I’d love to buy you guys a beer 👍
When he said at 6:00 that zes not hete to give evidence or Arguments just to tell what he thinks is true, that would have been the point to just say that there us no reason ro talk to him .
Yep definitely got a commercial after from a church about how we needed to protect Christian family values. I am pretty sure they are missing the market with me.
I say this all the time, but I’m an MMJ patient, and after a really potent joint, I saw the clouds part in a gorgeous and “otherworldly” way, and this happened while I was checking out the song “13 Angels Standing Guard ‘Round Your Bed”, and it was truly a religious experience…and then came the comedown and it’s never happened again. One of the best highs ever, but that’s all it was. You see, Mike, THAT is what skepticism and “not being susceptible” looks like.
Exactly. The experience was real, no question. That is, you had a subjective experience. It's possible to learn a lot about oneself from such experiences. But if there's no objective correlate to that personal experience, something that can be observed and examined by others, then we don't have anything to work with. We can't say that what you felt was real out here in the shared world. Your experience was a private one. Trippy things can happen in the mind, with or without pharmaceutical stimulation. One of the most useful insights is how real and authentic and coherent these experiences feel. We are literally living in another reality. It's a subjective reality, that's the point. And when we return to our ordinary reality, it's in some sense just as subjective. This is, I find, a good antidote to bigotry.
@@starfishsystems Bigot was a fair sails agent and cruel to his employees but he was getting good enough at his profession and his upper Boss decided to send him to the tropics on a new realistate sale. unfortunately he Got Swallowed by an alligator.
I was commuting one night, on the bus, in the early 2000s, and was thinking about how George Bush could be so scandalously incompetent and bad while seeming so confident and righteous. I concluded it had to be a faith. So i tried a thought experiment, imagining a big brother always whispering in your head you can do no wrong. No drugs, no hypnosis no nothing. And within a minute or 2 I was able to manifest a religious experience, sort of euphoria, while knowing that it was just a mind trick. Easy as that.
"I was a bigger skeptic than you". Why does the room suddenly smell like crap? By the way, "Mike" here is a repeat caller. He's not here to actually have a conversation, just another DD troll
One time I had a really awful experience at the dentist and one of my favorite fictional, but well known characters spoke to me and helped me through the experience. I guess I have a new god. That wasn't just my brain trying to cope.
And of course he pretends not to understand the OTF ( mentioning how people from other faiths would say the same thing about the god they believed in was talking to them) mentioned by Forrest--because he KNEW he was cornered and had no explanation that would surpass the level of a 9-year-old.
Imagine a prosecutor asking the jury, "what evidence do you need to convince you that the defendant is guilty?" 🤣 That's not how this works, you present the evidence you have and allow it to be questioned and examined. This isn't rocket science!
This question from theists is also a means for them to work backwards using the "evidence" to get to their point. They want to be able to make up an argument as evidence to fit into what you've requested, instead of just presenting their best evidence for why they believe.
Religion is instinctually based which uses social pressure to commit to the group. Not based upon the intellect, no amount of evidence addresses the basis of his belief.
As a black man nothing upsets me faster than a black person testifying about a religious belief system that was forced on our ancestors, but he hasn't been culturally indoctrinated. Also he wouldn't be quiet long enough to hear or digest anything anyone was saying.
It is sad the way European empires did their best to enslave the world, and that their religion was right there when they arrived, along with the people carrying guns... And they succeeded _so well_ that the victims of their empire-building remain the greatest religious zealots centuries later.
And he insisted that he wasn't raised around Christianity. I call BS.
@@whodey2112 I agree with you. Everyone who is raised in the United States is culturally indoctrinated regarding Christianity. However, that does not necessarily mean that one will ultimately believe in the Christian God.
Thats been called "slave soul"!
Atheists deny reality and reason in their blind belief. They just REALLY hope to be right ;)
Imagine wasting your life on something you CLAIM you don't believe in and you hate. One day some of you will realize this after much regret and shame.
The empty, horrible, depressed, p--n-addicted, alcohol and antidepressant filled, degenerate lives that atheists live is also proof that God is saying the Truth about sin. They all check at least 2 or 3 of these things. And if you're a teenager living with your parents, you will become that way in the future, UNLESS you repent and give your life to Jesus Christ.
I used to be an antitheist too. I was deceived by atheist lies, strawmans, fake studies, fake experts and frauds for many years so I know all the atheist "arguments" very well. I despised all religions and saw them as plagues upon humanity but then Jesus showed me the Truth like He also did for many other agnostics and atheists too.
He'll do the same for you, if you seek the truth in a humble and sincere manner. I know at least some of you are able to do that if you truly want it. God already proved everyone that He exists and it's everyone's job to seek the Truth for themselves and to get right with Him. NO EXCUSES.
All those who are SINCERE and actually want the truth will find God. Those that are not, should expect to receive nothing but deception(of any kind), misery and great confusion.
The most degenerate atheists will find any excuse to deny FACTS and reality, including the Knowledge and Experience of billions of people(trough all history, I'm not talking all professing Christians, of course), as Christianity is a LIVING relationship with the Creator, not a dead religion of works and rituals, nor a blind, irrational belief like atheism is.
And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me WITH ALL YOUR HEART. Jeremiah 29:13 KJV
"I believe in God because I believe in God because I believe in God..."
Say it as many times as you want dude, it doesn't make it a good reason.
At time number 56 it magically takes on a qualitative change and proves the existence of God conclusively. Boo yah, atheists. Facts!!
If only the townspeople of Sodom had been hospitable to Hermes and Zeus, Sodom would not have been destroyed. They came face to face with two gods and didn't recognized them. I'll bet they were Southern Baptists.
In Ovid's moralizing fables collected as Metamorphoses is his telling of the story of Baucis and Philemon, which stands on the periphery of Greek mythology and Roman mythology. Baucis and Philemon were an old married couple in the region of Tyana, which Ovid places in Phrygia, and the only ones in their town to welcome disguised gods Zeus and Hermes(in Roman mythology, Jupiter and Mercury respectively), thus embodying the pious exercise of hospitality, the ritualized guest-friendship termed xenia, or theoxenia when a god was involved.
Or real at anytime.
@@ministryofarguments3525
The Torah writers copied myths from which Zeus/Jupiter/Indra is the supreme god.
In the beginning, Zeus/Jupiter/Indra created Heaven and Earth.
I believe I have a full head of hair because it's true. I just have a hard time demonstrating that
"If I'm not wrong, then you have to be wrong"
- Mike
Truly, an intellectual titan....
Forest argument about the "elephant on the other side of the wall" was a perfect analogy that apparently the caller completely ignored to then say something as bad as this.
Lol, but you can't fault his logic - he does have the intellectual integrity to say 'IF I'm not wrong'
This is technically true, though. If he isn't wrong about God existing, then Forrest and Johnny would be wrong to not believe in God. It doesn't make him correct cause it's just a tautology, but it's not an incorrect statement.
It's hard to win an argument against an intelligent person, it's impossible to win an argument against a stupid person.
Depending on who has the better arguments. I don't think that all are stupid. They are just used to thinking that way.
I have a friend who doesn't understand some Christian arguments, but it doesn't mean that these are wrong
@@jhadow1869he is saying, arguments aside, that trying to teach or explain anything to a dumb mind cant work. But an intellectual minded person can change there view on topic more easily when presented with evidence..doesnt work in reverse.
@@davidbordwell8346
says who? give me a shot which argument you mean.
A few points that I have!...
1. Scientists say that a single cell organism arriving from elements is impossible. It would already need multiple complex functions all working in harmony right from the start. Thinking and moving, having a will, being able to split in two, consuming and excreting, managing whatever it intakes, surviving the elements, ect... Not to mention all of it's intricate components internally! It would have to blindly design itself from whatever was around it, and it would need to be able to think first before it could do that.
2. You are believing that the laws of physics just blindly created themselves and all of the complex life we see around us. Nothing has ever happened without a cause. How is it more believable that "it just happened" vs a designer being the cause?
3. None of us made ourselves, where were you before you were born into existence? And then when we die,... You don't think that it is possible to be born into existence again?
@@hunterhestekin7420 1. That is called a 'strawman' argument....you describe something that sounds close to what happened, if you haven't learnt what did happen (what we already know).
What you describe is actually creation and if it did occur would refute evolution.
"....and it would need to be able to think......."....
Plants turn to the sun...do they think ? .
Slime molds can navigate mazes...do they think?
White blood cells will chase and envelope invading organisms.. do they think ?
If your answer isn't automatically "of course not", and/or you fail to make the connection...then pls go look them up and find out.
2. And this is called the 'puddle analogy'. Go look that up as well.
3. Me, myself and I....What you think of as 'you' is a emergent property of your brain...."You" changed slowly (relatively) over time, and will continue to do so as your experience things.
There was no "you" before you were born, and after your brain activity stops, there will be no "you" for the rest of time.
There are decades and decades of medical records that show this beyond the shadow of any doubt.
This is why a lot of atheists think believers are wasting the one and only life we know for sure is real, pining for a future life that has only ever existed in stories.
"I'm not highly susceptible," says most people who are highly susceptible.
Said the guy who found "blood sacrifices" compelling.
Ya and i'm going crazy.🤔🤧😆
@@theriffwriter2194 Not any more Sir as i found they don't have to practice this torturing slave driven experience no longer. because of the new covenant king james comes up with 800 years later. the New Covenant relieved people from this blood sacrifice practice. Just one little problem comes along with the new cove. if they didn't believe King J and his new law He would have them incinorated or beheaded. NUTS it just got worse 800 years later in the year 1500.🤔 i guess later years are harder to keep the gullible in Belief . the true loving honest non manipulating creater is coming soon and will wake the blood sacri- God and kick him back far away enough in to the any thing was still Nothing Days..🤔🙃😁
@@trafficjon400 what reason do you have to believe that? (your final statement, I mean) Unless you were being sarcastic.
@@theriffwriter2194 Believe what?
"I'm not the type of person to support my position with evidence."
What an aggressive commitment to ignorance. We should all aspire to be so intellectually honest
Pretty much how all my conversations with my ex went😂FML.
It's based on two things; rewarding "believing" instead of proving AND heaven/hell being dangled over someone's head. I can't think of anything else that would cause a normally reasoned person to make such a statement and avoid the idiocy of it.
Bliss wins out! Well it should.
That is THE line that stood out to me too. I guess evidence is required for atheists only.
You notice that too huh?
Caller sums up his argument PERFECTLY at 18:30. "I know how to separate the science from the fiction. But that changed one day." It sure did. 😂
I feel so sorry for Mike's wife and children. Not because of his belief system but because of his absolute ability to have the right position without reason or evidence. I can hear him now, "Im right and youre wrong just because I know. Now do what I say."
What right position?
@@ComradeBeerNone but that doesn't matter to Mike. Mike is always right and everyone else is always wrong.
Legend says that both Johnny and Forrest are still, to this day, holding on.
Mike is maye a used car sales man ............
Hahahahahaha, amazing
By their fingernails.
I’m a woman and now I know what blue balls feels like.
wait wait - can i finish? can I finish. "yes" can I finish!! CAN I
“If you’re black and Christian, you have a very short memory.” Chris Rock
😂 😂, the best comment I have seen in ages
Jesus came to set the slaves free . It was white Christians who set the slaves free , over 300,000 white boys gave their lives to set the black slaves free . Jesus said “ Greater love has no man than this , that he should lay down his life for his friends, I have called you friends “
@@jwsanders1214 So, SOME white folks undid SOME OF the damage that other white folks caused? If I start a fire and after it has caused lots of damage, I put it out, am I a hero then?
@@jwsanders1214 it was white Christians who fought to keep slavery
@@wolfster1063 what a stupid comment , ever listened to The Battle Hymn of the Republic ?
So many people misunderstand the burden of proof. And so many believers refuse to acknowledge that the ball is their court. It's madness.
He was such a big skeptic and so into science that he didn't know what burden of proof is
Mike must be a strong man, he moved those goal posts like it was nothing!
You said: "he moved those goal posts like it was nothing!" Yeah, ALTHOUGH he probably didn't know he did. My thought on the conversation are:
This was a frustrating conversation. There was a lot of talking past each other. Johnny and Forrest was of course right, but the caller had "swallowed" a lot of argumentation about how the world works that probably are untrue (and unexamined), and they caused Johnny's and Forrest's words to be ineffectual.
HERE ARE SOME "CON-MAN MINES" THAT I THINK IS IN THE CALLER'S HEAD (most likely):
1. The separation of "intellectualism" from "experience." He probably see experience as REAL and intellectualism as self delusion (the vanity of comparing wits with God).
1.b. His: - You can't tell me that my experiences were wrong. Now, this is true of course BUT: a) you cannot TRANSFER truth to another by saying YOU had an experience and b) human experience is NOTORIOUSLY unreliable!
2. The belief that there is a difference between "feelings" and "the Spirit" (these words were not used, but were almost CERTAINLY a premise for the caller's reasoning). The demagogs he listens to have separated out part of people's feelings and called it "the Spirit" so they can admit that, yeah you shouldn't follow your feelings, you should follow "the Spirit of God"
2.b. Emotional church techniques explained as «the Spirit of God," but that in fact is something psychology can explain
3. Confusion about what KNOWING is
There are often other "mines" that I can't think of now, and together they tend to derail the conversation. «Arresting" them and showing their UNPRODUCTIVENESS could cause a lot of misunderstandings to go away
This guy was given way more time than he deserved.
yep
Hold on!
Most are.
Yes ... too much bluster.
"Now you're gonna cut me off?" He says after interrupting the hosts 10 times.
Watching mike try and fail to gaslight you guys in real time is hilarious
Where was Mike? I never saw Mike.
One of the most annoying traits of theists is how they listen with their mouths.
Atheists deny reality and reason in their blind belief. They just REALLY hope to be right ;)
Imagine wasting your life on something you CLAIM you don't believe in and you hate. One day some of you will realize this after much regret and shame.
The empty, horrible, depressed, p--n-addicted, alcohol and antidepressant filled, degenerate lives that atheists live is also proof that God is saying the Truth about sin. They all check at least 2 or 3 of these things. And if you're a teenager living with your parents, you will become that way in the future, UNLESS you repent and give your life to Jesus Christ.
I used to be an antitheist too. I was deceived by atheist lies, strawmans, fake studies, fake experts and frauds for many years so I know all the atheist "arguments" very well. I despised all religions and saw them as plagues upon humanity but then Jesus showed me the Truth like He also did for many other agnostics and atheists too.
He'll do the same for you, if you seek the truth in a humble and sincere manner. I know at least some of you are able to do that if you truly want it. God already proved everyone that He exists and it's everyone's job to seek the Truth for themselves and to get right with Him. NO EXCUSES.
All those who are SINCERE and actually want the truth will find God. Those that are not, should expect to receive nothing but deception(of any kind), misery and great confusion.
The most degenerate atheists will find any excuse to deny FACTS and reality, including the Knowledge and Experience of billions of people(trough all history, I'm not talking all professing Christians, of course), as Christianity is a LIVING relationship with the Creator, not a dead religion of works and rituals, nor a blind, irrational belief like atheism is.
And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me WITH ALL YOUR HEART. Jeremiah 29:13 KJV
@@JesusChristisLORD1020 Another annoying trait is how they dishonestly claim to know what others think, know, or believe. Such delusion and arrogance.
@@humbleevidenceaccepter7712 another one is when called out they deleted the comment and tried to weasel away.
I am full on stealing this line and crediting it to “amazing dude on internet”
Great way to put it! So many callers listen by trying to talking over the hosts
This guy was so dishonest and refused to answer any questions. All he wanted to do was promote a book.
This Guy? that's rather presumptuous of you. I'm sure Mike is a Lady.
@@davorocket2825 no no he's a rock not a lady. Ladies tend to use their brains
@@Georg3e Yeah I'll agree it's brainless
I am inclined to say he is most dishonest with himself. He also seems to be unwilling to examine the path he took to his belief.
Atheists deny reality and reason in their blind belief. They just REALLY hope to be right ;)
Imagine wasting your life on something you CLAIM you don't believe in and you hate. One day some of you will realize this after much regret and shame.
The empty, horrible, depressed, p--n-addicted, alcohol and antidepressant filled, degenerate lives that atheists live is also proof that God is saying the Truth about sin. They all check at least 2 or 3 of these things. And if you're a teenager living with your parents, you will become that way in the future, UNLESS you repent and give your life to Jesus Christ.
I used to be an antitheist too. I was deceived by atheist lies, strawmans, fake studies, fake experts and frauds for many years so I know all the atheist "arguments" very well. I despised all religions and saw them as plagues upon humanity but then Jesus showed me the Truth like He also did for many other agnostics and atheists too.
He'll do the same for you, if you seek the truth in a humble and sincere manner. I know at least some of you are able to do that if you truly want it. God already proved everyone that He exists and it's everyone's job to seek the Truth for themselves and to get right with Him. NO EXCUSES.
All those who are SINCERE and actually want the truth will find God. Those that are not, should expect to receive nothing but deception(of any kind), misery and great confusion.
The most degenerate atheists will find any excuse to deny FACTS and reality, including the Knowledge and Experience of billions of people(trough all history, I'm not talking all professing Christians, of course), as Christianity is a LIVING relationship with the Creator, not a dead religion of works and rituals, nor a blind, irrational belief like atheism is.
And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me WITH ALL YOUR HEART. Jeremiah 29:13 KJV
The unicorn in the garage, he just cannot see the analogy in reference to a god in his garage.
Someone getting so aggressively angry is usually a sign of someone who’s unsure, unstable and unsafe in their position
18:20 ...believe me I was a bigger skeptic than you...
No you weren't Mike. You weren't.
He doesn't understand the word skeptic.
@@freddan6fly I'm not quite sure you are correct. I need evidence before I can believe you.
@@jquest99 If he was a “skeptic” he wouldn’t admit there’s no evidence for the thing he worships by making everyone else do the work. He seemingly knows his god isn’t real but doesn’t care.
Yes, he was such a bigger skeptic that he's now a believer and Johnny's still an atheist. lmao
Well he used the past tense. He WAS a skeptic. It's possible, people change.
Thanks to this video I have a new standard for “laughable arrogance.” Mike is the new king.
i don't know, there's alot of competetion
@@petermeichan3160 What does 'competetion' mean? Never heard of it!
What about his brother wayne, Is he king as well?😅
HOLD ON...
...
...
HOLD ON...
...
...
I agree.
I don't like cocaine.
"I was a bigger skeptic than both of you and now I believe in God! BOOM! I win" Shaking my smh.
"Now hold on" truly a catch phrase of saying "Just before answering a question or statement I am going to redirect attention elsewhere"
I can't believe he's getting angry at being talked over or not being able to speak, but that's literally what he's done the whole time.
I can (more or less) forgive him for that. People get "excited" when it comes to their most cherished beliefs and there's also probably quite a bit of fear there also about loosing your faith.
So things get a bit intense. It is not helpful though ..
@@busylivingnotdying You're a lot nicer than I am.
@@busylivingnotdyingI lack such forgiveness for this kind of foolishness.
Projection sucks
I've been to the jedi temple and spoke with Master Yoda. I don't have to prove it to anyone because I've watched Star Wars
This analogy.. Sums up perfectly.. Beautiful.
Exactly. After having played Knights of the Old Republic I'm convinced I am a master Jedi. 👌😁
Yoda is way more real than god could ever be! May the shwarts be with you!
@@dustincredible1249 You know that you are headed to hell at ludicrous speed!
@@rembrandt972ify ill be the first to get there so fast I've gone to plaid
Mike has never been skeptical about anything in his entire life.
Oh no. I bet he is highly skeptical about other issues..... If You know what I mean.
Mike's so proud if his ignorance! Not to mention his aggressive and interruptive behaviors. Such a loving, patient example of a kind Christian.
I couldn't talk to a person like this. He just loves the sound of his own voice so much he talks over everyone.
So infuriating that it makes this almost unwatchable. Thankfully, Forest is the best teacher that I have ever seen.
Same for me it's like arguing with a child 100% pointless
I would shut him down in a blink.
Hold on hold on hold on!
Right. Lemme ask you a question then start talking immediately while you're trying to answer
That was seriously painful. I don’t believe for one minute that Mike was ever an atheist.
Everyone is born atheist. They either stay that way or they get dumber
in a way he was, until he was brainwashed, probably in childhood.
A lot of them say that. I never believe any
They say that because they don't really know what an atheist is. One christian told me he used to be an atheist because he used to hate God and that he would even curse God out daily. You know, like us atheists are known to do....
@@mjohanss1975 thats what happens when you get your word definitions from your pastor
I spent the first 13 years of my life in church. I've spent the next 65 years learning all religions and trying to convince myself of God. It didn't work.
I have a similar background. I was a Christian and read the Bible to get stronger in my beliefs but it really only led to my deconversion. That and I've always been into mythology so I saw a lot of similarities with Christianity and other religions. At one point when I was reading the Bible I remember thinking that it just felt like I was reading a boring book of fairytales.
The Unicorn from Forrest's garage spoke to me so I know it exists
"I am not highly susceptible, but I believe in some of the most improbable and ridiculous bullsh*t mankind has ever come up with."
"I was a bigger sceptic than you both, but I came to believe in some of the most improbable and ridiculous bullsh*it mankind has ever come up with."
Mike was as unintentionally hilarious as he was unpleasant during this conversation.
Imagine being an adult in the 21 century and believing in talking snakes
His evidence in GOD is ....him turning from a skeptic to a believer ..and therefore GOD. Unbelievable.
Since God is omnipotent, he can turn everyone who used to be a Skeptic like Mike into theists.
And THAT'S why we have no more atheists, proving that God exists! If God did NOT exist, we would still have people denying his existence and having TH-cam shows talking about the experience of atheists!
I take it as evidence he wasn't a skeptic, since a skeptic would not be convinced by such a poor argument.
It's actually one of the most common "arguments" I've heard all my life - even one I used myself back when I was a believer. There's even an old hymn in the Baptist tradition that says something like, "You ask me how I know he lives. He lives within my heart." It might shock people to know just how common Mike's terrible argument is, especially here in the Bible Belt of the US.
God talks to him as well.
do you ever think he was a skeptic or non believer
This show is the reason I was able to finally get out of the cycle of cognitive dissonance and I’m so happy!
First caller: "I'm not the kind of person to sit here and give you evidence, I'm just telling you what I know to be true."
Wow.
As someone who grew up around Fundamentalism, I highly doubt he “grew up an Atheist.” This is a common conversion trick they try to “appeal to the skeptic.”
What most likely happened was while he grew up all around Christianity, he never started taking it that seriously until like College or something. If you listen, he even starts to say how he “grew up in a Christian household.”
Yeah... like, we all know, that atheists aren't "real" atheists... they're all just "angry with god for some ptty reason" or "haven't found their real inner truth yet". Same kind of 'argument'.
Were you also a skeptic? Is the follow-up question.
Logically, if he didn't grow up Christaian, then he made up the God stuff out of nowhere.
He said he grew up in a Christian household but didn't believe it until a certain date. Pretty much every former atheist caller I've seen has just been a theist who had a rebellious phase in their teens. It's almost like clockwork, next time you see one i almost guarantee that's the case
That doesnt matter because he is completely immune to influences around him. No man is an island, except for Mike.
I love how he said "all your knowledge and information should be able to prove that I'm wrong" and then like 1 minute later said that he "never said or even implied" that very thing.
Hehehe... It was some pretty clumsy gaslighting.
What a complete brainwashed fool
I haven't listen to this video however all of their knowledge and information should prove he is wrong, but it doesn't. That don't make him right but it doesn't make him wrong either.
@@tommy32408 you haven't listened to the video meaning you have no fucking idea of the context. And also, just no. If you make an unfalsifiable claim, there is no amount of knowledge or information on the world that would PROVE that claim wrong because that's what unfalsifiable means.
@@tommy32408Seeing as how the claim of a god is an unfalsifiable claim, it can't even be proven wrong. At every step along the way of rational questioning into the belief of god, the believers could make excuses as to why those questions don't dismantle their worldview. It's the same thing as me saying, "I have a magical unicorn in my garage at home." Every step of the way of someone questioning the existence of my unicorn, I could give reasons as to why their questions weren't poking holes in my claim of a unicorn. "Could I see pictures of this unicorn?"
"No, my unicorn is invisible."
And so on and so forth.
We have no way to prove the claim of a god wrong, just as we have no evidence to prove the claim of magical unicorns wrong. There's no way to prove either one of them wrong, but they also both lack any evidence to support their claims in the first place. A rational thinker should only hold viewpoints that are based on facts and evidence. There are no facts or evidence that support the existence of unicorns. However, that lack of evidence supporting the existence of unicorns isn't a valid reason to say that unicorns definitely don't exist or have never existed. So, it is not rational to say that they do or don't exist when you don't have concrete evidence for either claim. The same goes for god. You must simply not accept any and all claims until one of them provides sufficient evidence to do so.
Lastly, even if atheists could disprove the claim of a god, that wouldn't be required for them to simply state their non-belief. The burden of proof ALWAYS lies on someone making a positive claim. Non-belief (the position of atheists) doesn't mean one is making any positive claims (claims like "God does/doesn't exist.") Non-belief simply means one doesn't believe the religious claims that a god exists due to the lack of evidence supporting the claim. To disbelieve a claim holds no burden of proof. One doesn't need to disprove the magical unicorn in my garage for them to have the ability not to believe my claim of a pet unicorn. It's the same way that atheists don't need to disprove god simply to say "I don't believe this claim due to the lack of sufficient evidence supporting it."
Why make the extraordinary claim of a supernatural god's existence when there hasn't been any extraordinary evidence supporting that claim in the whole history of mankind?
“Christian culture has no effect on me” says man who lives in a predominantly Christian nation, surrounded at all times by all of the elements and influences of Christianity, who (big surprise) “found” his way into Christianity.
And he skepticked so much harder, too!
The way he ran away once he was confronted with evidence... chef's kiss.
Mike has his argument all worked out, he's just missed the bit where it's got to be logical
😂
Mike believes he's making sense, and that's about as rational as his belief in the Jesus character of the gospels... not rational at all.
-I have testimony that god is real
-what is it?
-Trust me bro!
I got some the shroud of Turin being found with Christ's blood stains bible prophecy dead sea scrolls and there's more
Wins over atheists everytime, because of reasons.
"I know how to separate the science from the fiction, but that changed one day" possibly the best summary of his whole call imo
Honestly the frustration in his voice is such a tell that he would choose violence at the first opportunity. Exactly what the church loves in its followers. Irrational, closed off, and quick to anger
Mike: Stop distracting from the conversation!
Also Mike: Rather than offering his best evidence, he just insults the hosts (which is a distraction).
I have 7 churches in less than one mile from my house. As an atheist I can say most of my neighbors never stood a chance
I pay a homeless guy to watch me sleep and to hold me when I cry.
And my dad thanks you for your kindness. Your a pure soul my friend.
This is cracking me up 😂😂😂
Johnny: "Forrest, Forrest! Hold on" 🫵🏻
15:52
"I was a bigger skeptic than you"
and also
"my evidence is the claim itself"
Mike when he says how he was an even bigger sceptic than Johnny or Forrest and was, "very sadly grounded in reality... but I changed one day." Love it 😆
That quote will for ever be remembered
"I will not try to prove my position by using evidence "
This girl failed right here.
😂... Girl
It is a lying piece of shit
if anybody asks if you just assumed her gender, i mean, yeah, they asked her and she refused to say, what else were you supposed to do?
@@teuast We could use zir name, but that is just to long and impractical.
@@teuast I personally think if someone is not using any prounouns then we should call them by their sex because probability of their sex and gender being same is high maybe that's why they don't feel this need to specify their gender.
Holding on for dear life.
Mike didn't call in to have a discussion, he called in because he was offended and wanted to argue.
Mike is one of the most intolerable guests in recent memory
Agreed. Thank god for Forrest. All irony intended.
1000%
And one of the most entertaining. I think we can all agree that calls like this is why we watch/listen to the show
He forgot the part of 'god is all about love' I think.
@@neilbeaton9498 I do not think it is entertaining to me. I would say "frustrating". This is the kind of caller who will NEVER be convinced of anything that disagrees with his opinion, whether religious or not.
I would HATE to know this man. Imagine being part of his family.
Seriously, they're in every family if you're unlucky enough to end up in these types of conversations - even worse if you're a female atheist like me and they know
@@ch3rrikiss None in my family. How did you come to the conclusion that they’re in every family?
They're all as dumb as him.
@@reefhog just a casual sweeping judgement - hypocrisy eh? 😁
He sounds like almost everyone I know. Probably everyone I know.
I love the super duper chillaxin character that shape shifts into the passive aggressive financially rewarded lil renegade
The rainbow farting unicorns gambit was a moment of clarity in an otherwise wild conversation.
"I am a rational, intelligent and skeptical person. I am 100% convinced God exists." - coolstorybro
There is strong evidence that God exists .
@@user-ki1un4jg2d
pls enlighten me..
Which God?
What evidence?
That unicorn argument was BEAUTIFULLY done. Absolute flawless victory
Unfortunately, Mike didn't understand it in the least.
I've tried it with a theist troll who couldn't follow the basic argument. So doubt Mike understood.
It’s like beating up a toddler but yes they won that battle without getting hit.
Agree. But Mike was such a simple minded ignorant that thought they were simply saying that because he believes in god, then he must also believe in unicorns. People like this, sadly, don’t deserve great explanations, they deserve mockery and ridicule.
@@jquest99 the argument doesn't work though. Theism doesn't incur a burden of proof
To quote Monty Python, "This is not an argument this is simple contraction .... no it isn't"
T'is
When Johnny says, " hold on a minute!" when no one is interrupting, that's just his inner voice trying to talk reason to him.
I'm holding, I'm holding!! Killed me every time
Mike from Florida is absolutely intelerable on every possible level.
As soon as I saw he was from Florida I was like "oh no here it comes"
-sincerely a formerly religious person from Florida 😬
@@EmiSuess Ugg, it is always Florida....what the hell is in the water down there?
Then again, maybe its the koolaid mix....they should stop drinking the koolaid
This dude needs a nice cup of tea, poured from Russel's tea pot.
So frustrating when nobody else is talking and the caller stops explaining himself to tell them to let him finish talking.
20:42 is when Mike finally revealed WHY he believes (with under three minutes left). After all the preamble and diversion. Twenty minutes to get to “I heard a voice in my head”
That was the same thing that my dad says. He says it with such pride, thinking that God spoke him, not realizing he sounds crazy af to most normal people.
"I'm holding on! ... I gotta let go, my grip is slipping" 🤣
I think Forrest lost 20 IQ points after that call and he's still smarter than all of us.
By a long shot to
It's the emotional intelligence on top of his book smarts
He's got a quick wit but comes across as a bit naive tbh
@@dereknoto6555 more naive than people who believe in the existence of a book character? Cmon now
@@totallytravicious5919 I think the perception of Forrest's naivete comes from his willingness to hear the same arguments over and over, and his earnest attitude while doing so, making it appear that he genuinely expects a different result, like the kid who just lost 10 rigged carnival games but is still excited to play the next one because he is SURE he will win this time.
To some degree, I understand that it really is him just trying to give the benefit of the doubt, and the majority of the time he doesn't actually believe he will hear anything different, he is just willing to give people enough time to trip over their own words before he points out why they have fallen flat on their faces without him even doing anything. It can still be frustrating watching him talk in circles for 45 minutes with the same person, but a lot of that has to do with his background as an educator, which I can definitely understand and sympathize with, having done the same thing on multiple occasions.
It is worth mentioning though, that there are some things which he will still IMMEDIATELY shut down, and refuse to even entertain for a moment, which is how I know that he isn't really that naive.
I've noticed alot of callers say "here's the thing" right before they continue to not proove anything.
“I was a bigger skeptic than you” 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣 Yes I believe him. 😂🤣🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
This one was infuriating to listen to. You guys have far more patience than me. I wouldn't have been able to "hold" for so long.
Johnny and Forrest the whole time😏😏, the caller the whole time🤯🤬
Lol but Mason you have the word hold in your name😂You should be able to "hold" on with the best of them. Sorry couldn't help myself all in good humor I agree with your comment I'd have no patience for a person who speaks like that either
@Roxy Rhodes Yay, someone saw the humor. I was losing hope someone would notice.
@@masonholden3624 I got you covered!☺️👍 🎉
That was painful.
Mike: Prove God isn't real
TAE: Prove the unicorn in my garage isn't real
Mike: That's not the same thing.
Jesus spoke to me
Zeus spoke to me
That's not the same thing
Jesus sacrificed himself for us
Lots of gods have sacrificed themselves for us
That's not the same thing
prove by that statement you're not an idiot.
@@wr678 ?
Prove that my Flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist 😤
"I was a bigger sceptic than you are." "I doubt it."
Great debaters. Forrest is fairly new to me. Great debater.
I absolutely love this channel. I get logic, common sense, and intelligent arguments. And the theists provide plenty of laughs
It's how I see it, too. Repeat callers or not do I see it as only educating new people entering atheism and also further giving those like myself and you all the more to learn about the theistic views of religion and just how ridiculous it truly is in the world today. Like, while I knew that he'd go silent when Forrest mentioned those other gods within the other worldwide religions, though it'd been predictable that Mike would grow silent? I'm sure that these type of things however were able to bring out the possible within our community. I'm sure that it has be it silently or not.
It's sad to see so many people experience a hallucination and attribute it to something "spiritual", as opposed to our own imagination (or perhaps, psychosis).
If you have no evidence that my spiritual encounter was a hallucination, then you can't prove me wrong.
That's the beauty of belief, you need no evidence. However, I accept the most likely and most logical as well as rational explanation for my spiritual encounter was an hallucination.
DEFINITELY PSYCHOSIS
@@davidvarley1812 I believe and had a premonition last night that one day cats will run the world and Kitty Splice will be reborn and unless we repent for all our sins we will be sent to Litterbox for eternity scooping Kittyfer's little "presents" for infinity unless we give our lives to Kitty Splice right meow!!!!🐈🐈⬛🐈🐈⬛🐈🐈⬛🐈
YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE TO PROVE ME WRONG!!! BOW DOWN BEFORE KITTY!!!!! YAWEIII HATH SPOKEN!!!😾😾😾😾😾😾😾😾😾😾😾😾😾
So let it be written, so let it be done!!!!!!! It's in the ancient feline scrolls 📜 and scriptures. DO NOT CHALLENGE ME YOU NON BELIEVER!!! MAY THE FUZZY CLAWS HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL.
OH AND BUY MY CD's they are Catmas themed🐱🎄🎁🧶
@@davidvarley1812 You're confusing faith with belief, belief has a reasonable amount of evidence. You're using blind faith but at least you seem honest about it.
@@davidvarley1812 it's one thing to believe the sky is falling, it is another to believe it is aiming specifically for you.
The call screeners need to explain to every caller that they’re not in charge of the Atheist Experience. Callers like Mike keep saying “Hold on” as if they believe they are in charge of the show.
I really feel bad for so many, that have been lied to as children.
I dont speak about my personal belief usually, i appreciate your content. We need more transparancy in the world
Forrest is just the most patient and gentle person. He has to be paired with someone who is not so, to balance it.
If Forest V and Tom Hiddleston met, they would open a door to Elysium with their pure goodness.
I always find the show to be stronger when there is one dominant voice, whether it was Matt or now Forrest. I get kind of frustrated when the co-host interrupts the train of thought of the host. Forrest (for example) has this measured, methodical way of politely leading the caller to the dead ends in their own arguments. But his more confident co-hosts usually interrupt his process for much more boring interactions filled with condescension or combative sniping.
Forrest is good at meeting the caller where they're at, and starting his process there. In this call, Johhny seemed more interested in scoring cheap points by making fun of the caller's speech patterns. He was playing to the audience. Forrest tries to have an actual conversation with the caller.
@@MaximilliansHammer I can see your point. I suppose I like the pairing of Forrest with a ruder co-host only because some of these callers really need to be treated roughly, as they, themselves, are also grossly rude.
@@MaximilliansHammer100%. All the non-Forrest hosts I’ve seen on here are the people folk are thinking of when they picture a smug internet atheist. Watching someone joyfully rip the piss out of a stupid (or ignorant, or ill-informed) person isn’t particularly entertaining. It’s fish in a barrel - and who is it for? Is 99.99% of the audience here not other atheists?
Disclaimer: I’m as atheist as anybody here; just feel like a lot of these episodes, when it’s a conversation with Regular Joe Godbotherer, you’re transparently punching down.
No, it is not the atheist's place to prove any god doesn't exist. It's the one making the claim he exists that needs to prove his claim.
This is what I got out of that exchange…..“Hold on, now hold on let me finish”
20:42 Ok. So Mike spoke with God. It only took 20 minutes to get an answer that was so simple.
Well done on walking him to the brink of thought over and over gentlemen, very patient of you.
Mike is that proverbial horse...
It's funny when Christians bring up that Christianity is the only religion with a God sacrificing himself. They don't know anything about comparative religion and don't know how much the Bible stole from myths and folklore around at the time.
The worst part is that Jesus barely sacrificed anything since he knew that he wasn't going to really die. Compare him to Prometheus who gave humans the gift of fire (and didn't put some stupid condition to use it). And he's continually suffering for it.
Jesus had a bad weekend at most. Big deall
What I considered amusing, is that Jesus being sacrificing for our sins, is one of the theological claims that convinced me I didn't believe in Christianity. It's just too absurd for me to swallow.
I also dislike the implications of a theology that forgives people for being bad, rather than focusing on helping them not be bad.
@stevewebber707 Christianity basically has no real morality. You could commit the worst crime, like genocide of God's chosen people, but you just need to accept Christ.
But you could be a scared little girl hiding in an attic, but just because she's not a Christian, off she goes to be punished for an eternity. 🙄
Where's the morality?
@@jquest99 Yeah, I'm definitely not a fan of Christian variants that claim salvation is granted simply by professing belief. Though they don't all do that.
If you interpret the bible differently than them, faith without works is meaningless. And I think that a more true interpretation of the bible.
I see where you are coming from, since if there is no requirement to stop sinning in order to be granted salvation, it makes a mockery of the claims of justice and accountability.
There are versions of Christianity that insist following Jesus entails a lot more than simply believing in him.
I'm not trying to blame folks for disagreeing on that theology. I blame the bible for being vague and somewhat inconsistent on that subject. Ok, maybe I blame the folks a bit for trusting that bible too much...
I'm not going to make claims about Christian morality, until a coherent form of morality is defined and presented. And the label "Christian", is simply not sufficient.
There is morality presented in the bible. Though it can be controversial, and interpreted in very different ways.
I think the closest it gets to common ground for morality I can agree with, is the golden rule. The OT commandments are pretty hit and miss, and it's debatable which if any, are considered to be valid now.
Indeed, this line of reasoning makes zero sense in my brain. To me it sounds like "I gave you a hundred bucks you didnt ask for, later I took them back and now you're forever in my debt".
20:43 Johnny's reaction cracked me up
You guys are amazing I was brought up in a school that preached the bible as fact I became an atheist when I learned to think for myself and question what I was being taught but I never understood the horrors and oppression of what religion does until I listened to the late great Christopher Hitchens. keep up the good work guys and if your ever in the UK I’d love to buy you guys a beer 👍
Danced around the basic question. It's better to cut these guys loose and find someone else to talk to.
When he said at 6:00 that zes not hete to give evidence or Arguments just to tell what he thinks is true, that would have been the point to just say that there us no reason ro talk to him .
@18:14 Wow, I've never seen such a huge skepticism before
Yep definitely got a commercial after from a church about how we needed to protect Christian family values. I am pretty sure they are missing the market with me.
I say this all the time, but I’m an MMJ patient, and after a really potent joint, I saw the clouds part in a gorgeous and “otherworldly” way, and this happened while I was checking out the song “13 Angels Standing Guard ‘Round Your Bed”, and it was truly a religious experience…and then came the comedown and it’s never happened again. One of the best highs ever, but that’s all it was. You see, Mike, THAT is what skepticism and “not being susceptible” looks like.
Exactly. The experience was real, no question. That is, you had a subjective experience. It's possible to learn a lot about oneself from such experiences.
But if there's no objective correlate to that personal experience, something that can be observed and examined by others, then we don't have anything to work with. We can't say that what you felt was real out here in the shared world. Your experience was a private one.
Trippy things can happen in the mind, with or without pharmaceutical stimulation. One of the most useful insights is how real and authentic and coherent these experiences feel. We are literally living in another reality. It's a subjective reality, that's the point. And when we return to our ordinary reality, it's in some sense just as subjective. This is, I find, a good antidote to bigotry.
@@starfishsystems Bigot was a fair sails agent and cruel to his employees but he was getting good enough at his profession and his upper Boss decided to send him to the tropics on a new realistate sale. unfortunately he Got Swallowed by an alligator.
The interpretation of the experience is what we're questioning not that you've had experiences...
Cognito anyone?
I was commuting one night, on the bus, in the early 2000s, and was thinking about how George Bush could be so scandalously incompetent and bad while seeming so confident and righteous. I concluded it had to be a faith. So i tried a thought experiment, imagining a big brother always whispering in your head you can do no wrong. No drugs, no hypnosis no nothing. And within a minute or 2 I was able to manifest a religious experience, sort of euphoria, while knowing that it was just a mind trick. Easy as that.
"I was a bigger skeptic than you". Why does the room suddenly smell like crap?
By the way, "Mike" here is a repeat caller. He's not here to actually have a conversation, just another DD troll
Sounds also narcissistic.
Surprised he didn't say he is the most devout and humble Christian ever.
One time I had a really awful experience at the dentist and one of my favorite fictional, but well known characters spoke to me and helped me through the experience. I guess I have a new god. That wasn't just my brain trying to cope.
When johnny told forrest to hold on, i literally laughed out loud. I am a lol.
The typical "he talks to me" stuff just ended things for me, too. Never fails to worsen the proof and waste time. Awesome handling this one guys.
And of course he pretends not to understand the OTF ( mentioning how people from other faiths would say the same thing about the god they believed in was talking to them) mentioned by Forrest--because he KNEW he was cornered and had no explanation that would surpass the level of a 9-year-old.
At least he didn't say he had a sexual relationship with his God like one of the previous batshit crazy callers 😂😂😂.
@@jackwhitbread4583 which video was that!? I have to hear it 😩🤣🤣🤣
Imagine a prosecutor asking the jury, "what evidence do you need to convince you that the defendant is guilty?" 🤣
That's not how this works, you present the evidence you have and allow it to be questioned and examined. This isn't rocket science!
This question from theists is also a means for them to work backwards using the "evidence" to get to their point. They want to be able to make up an argument as evidence to fit into what you've requested, instead of just presenting their best evidence for why they believe.
The irony of that is, legal courts base all their information on evidence, but then ask you to place your right hand on the Bible.
@@JohnG-tv3gc I swear to tell the truth... that is proportional to what's in the bible. 🤣
@@JohnG-tv3gc Never had to do it but I'd probably have a laugh if I was presented with the Bible to swear on.
He was given the opportunity to tell us why he believed and he couldn’t do it.
"I'VE DISCOVERED THE TRUE ORIGIN OF THE COSMOS!!"
"Whoa!! How did you figure it out?"
"Well tell me what kind of evidence would convince you..."
... 🤨
The cognitive dissonance is DEEP with this one.
God bless Johnny's and Forest's patience, for this caller 😂
20:24 Forrest out here trying to relieve the headache that is coming on.
I wish I could be held like Johnny and Forrest were hplding on 😢
"I'm not the kind of person that's going to sit here and try to prove my position by some type of evidence..." Sums up his entire world view.
Religion is instinctually based which uses social pressure to commit to the group. Not based upon the intellect, no amount of evidence addresses the basis of his belief.