Thomas: (Pt.1) Where Islam came from (100 AD - 674 AD)

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 508

  • @zygmuntkonstancinski2518
    @zygmuntkonstancinski2518 3 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    Yes, the real history is more interesting than any imagined by the dreamers, connivers, schemers, bullies and myth weavers. This is the way to go with Islam. Thanks.

  • @abrcdabra
    @abrcdabra 3 ปีที่แล้ว +35

    This is truly a GREAT, amazing and successful project, Jay.
    You brought together the Anglo-Saxon school, the Arab school, the Jewish school, the Indian school, the French school and now the German school…
    You turned around the destruction of the Tower of Babel; now all the languages together speak in the honor of Jesus! And a truly amazing historic story has come to the light again.
    Reality (true ancient history) is so much better than fiction (the Standard Islamic Narrative).
    Many thanks to you and all your friends at PfanderFilms!

    • @islamdefenderyahya4621
      @islamdefenderyahya4621 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      ISLAM came from Hvn to Teach you Xtians the Only Truth .
      God Does Not Incarnate into Another Form as He Is Invisible eternal Immortal & Does Not Change Or Add or Lose any of his Attribute & this is Bible Saying & Not My Own Opinion =
      God Doesn’t Change His Nature (Malachi 3:6)
      The God remain the same in nature (Hebrews 1:12)
      God is the living and everlasting (Habakkuk 1:12)
      Jesus Never Ever Claim He is God But He Submit to the Father
      Jesus also said "My GOD and your GOD" (John 20:17)
      Jesus bowed his face down to the ground to GOD Almighty. (Matthew 26:39)
      Pls let me Know if there Anything you want to Know . Regds😇😇😇😇😇

    • @JB-rg8si
      @JB-rg8si 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      To be fair, Jay isn't doing it; the Holy Spirit is.
      I feel that, now that everything is basically in English, we may be able to dispel every lie of the devil before the last days.

    • @annemurphy9339
      @annemurphy9339 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@islamdefenderyahya4621 The entire Bible proclaims the deity of Christ.

    • @islamdefenderyahya4621
      @islamdefenderyahya4621 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@annemurphy9339 & Jesus himself Never Claim Divinity but Address the true Only God as the FATHER

    • @annemurphy9339
      @annemurphy9339 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@islamdefenderyahya4621 You just proved you’ve never read the Bible. Christ said He and the Father are One; that He is “I Am,” a name for YHVH God revealed to Moses, and He accepted the worship of the disciples who proclaimed Him, “My Lord and my God.” The divinity of Yeshua ha’Mashiach as God Incarnate is evident throughout the entire New Testament.

  • @toddbeamer6131
    @toddbeamer6131 3 ปีที่แล้ว +55

    This is fascinating. It means the standard islamic narrative is completely fiction. Thanks Thomas!

    • @bitchoflivingblah
      @bitchoflivingblah 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      And makes absolutely zero impact on muslims, just as analysis of the Gospels in the New Testament shows they were not written by the Mark, Matthew, Luke or John but by others in Greek, translated into Latin and finally into English whilst being adulterated over the centuries, probably has no impact on you being a christian.
      Apart from showing how un-christian you actually are.

    • @MU-we8hz
      @MU-we8hz 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@bitchoflivingblah there is a diffrence between having a scribe and having a whole diffrent narrative then claimed.
      Do you understand that?

    • @alonzoharris6730
      @alonzoharris6730 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@MU-we8hz
      Paul didn't exist.

    • @MU-we8hz
      @MU-we8hz 3 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      @@alonzoharris6730 your sources claim Paul existed 😂😂😂😂

    • @billshepherd5090
      @billshepherd5090 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@alonzoharris6730 prove it Paul didn’t exist. Still haven’t answered which kango-ran do you read.

  • @eugeniorobinson4556
    @eugeniorobinson4556 3 ปีที่แล้ว +20

    Great work guys, God bless you both for taking on this mess.

  • @Niles-Guy
    @Niles-Guy 3 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    Just read description text and wow it was filled with fascinating information.

  • @janpahl6015
    @janpahl6015 3 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    excellent, excellent, 9 of 10 times no historian fails to tell the Arab "client" States for the sake of the SIN... thanks a lot againg Thomas.... Jay, one of the best videos of your channel

  • @eugeniorobinson4556
    @eugeniorobinson4556 3 ปีที่แล้ว +20

    Thanks to both of you for taking Islam to task.

    • @zubversivezigotto9731
      @zubversivezigotto9731 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      D

    • @bitchoflivingblah
      @bitchoflivingblah 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      And putting it on the same level as Christianity, where the New Testament Gospels have been deconstructed historically to be shown as not being written by the authors Mark, Matthew, Luke and John, contain adulterations over time when being translated from the original 'GREEK' - note not Hebrew or Aramaic - into Latin then English, additions and subtractions, inconsistencies and hyperbole.
      Doesn't the Bible say, and I paraphrase, 'First to remove the plank from your sight before removing the thorn from mine'?
      The upshot is it makes 'some' Christians, no doubt very uncharitable ones, feel good about themselves, has virtually NO impact on muslims who couldn't give a crap, inflates the ego of one human being Mr Jay Smith.
      Some achievement.

    • @pa21thebeast
      @pa21thebeast 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@bitchoflivingblah I can’t believe you were able to write all that while crying so hard. Only a few academics disapprove with the authorship of the gospels, and most of their reasons are comical. Plus that’s going against contemporary evidence. As in opposition to the Standard Islamic Evidence that goes against contemporary evidence. Greek was the lingua franca of the Roman Empire and the Bible was translated to several languages before Islam was a thought.

    • @billshepherd5090
      @billshepherd5090 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@bitchoflivingblah which kango-ran do you read? You only have 37 to choose from.
      Show me Mecca on a map prior to 700AD!

    • @bitchoflivingblah
      @bitchoflivingblah 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@pa21thebeast Many academics pour doubt on the authenticity of the Gospels, much of which can be deduced from just reading them.
      Greek wasn't the lingua franca of the disciples so they couldn't have written them, and the people who did write the Gospels wrote them based on legend many years after the death of Jesus of Nazareth- so not the word of God as claimed - which you rightly state is quite comical.
      The translations and there were many all included many changes, they had to as the the text had become so adulterated. That said the King James Bible is a genuine great work of literature.

  • @Speakers154
    @Speakers154 3 ปีที่แล้ว +58

    This is spot on! Real history like this is far more satisfying than the jumble of myths that Islam propose happened. At around the 35:00 mark, it got really interesting and was the strongest evidence thus far that Muawiyah was more Christian than proto-Islamic. All great stuff and I loved the bit about the John the Baptist Related coin. Good job, Thomas and Jay!

    • @RedWolf75
      @RedWolf75 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      This also jives with what you uncovered about the rise of the Tayyaye.
      Looks like Byzantines were unable to reoccupy Syria and Egypt after they won the war against Persia. Looks like the Tayyee moved into the Levant and another group tool over the former Persian lands.

    • @alonzoharris6730
      @alonzoharris6730 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      What is a Christian?
      You think he is spot on by claiming that the Nabeteans didn't speak Arabic?😊

    • @alonzoharris6730
      @alonzoharris6730 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@RedWolf75
      How come Muawiya is on Persian coins as well?😁
      How come there are no crosses but fire altars on Persian muawiya coins?😁

    • @RedWolf75
      @RedWolf75 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@alonzoharris6730
      That was after he conquered the Persian areas.

    • @TAlexander
      @TAlexander 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      @@alonzoharris6730 Mu‘awiya was the first "Commander of the faithful“, therefore coins were minted everywhere. In the East, the Arabs obviously wanted to appear to rule in the continuation of the Sassanid Empire. Using their coins is the most visible sign. Keep in mind that it was no classical conquest but a slow shift in power on the ground.
      That only changes with Abd al-Malik. He has a distinct Arabisation policy.
      However, we also have early coins minted in Merv where the fire altars were replaced with crosses. The coins otherwise kept their Persian appearance.

  • @simonhengle8316
    @simonhengle8316 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Wow, just superb, thank you Thomas and Dr Jay Smith for hosting Thomas on your channel, I'm certainly looking forward to Pt. 2

  • @lahleholivia7398
    @lahleholivia7398 3 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    Wheres Mecca??? Aelius Gallus was a Roman commander who lead a military expedition along the Western Arabian Hejaz region with over 11,000 men in 25/26 BC. They found no trace of a city called Mecca or a place of worship called the Kaaba.
    Ethiopian, Syrian, Aramaic and Coptic literature from pre Islamic times say nothing of a City called Mecca or the Kaaba.
    Roman commander Pliny Surveyed most of western Arabia, mentioning all the cities, villages and tribes, but he never once mentioned Mecca or Kaaba.
    Greek historian, Theophrastos who lived in the 4th century B.C wrote about the Sabaeans and their trade, land and marine routes. He wrote in detail about this region but never mentioned Mecca or the Kaaba.

  • @saggost6438
    @saggost6438 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Thank you guys for what you are doing, God bless you all and happy new year 🙏

  • @AustinOKeeffe
    @AustinOKeeffe 3 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    A great summary of pre Islamic history by Thomas, making the Islamic narrative both irrelevant and untrue. Looking forward to part two. I like that music also Jay, where is it from?

  • @MrDrbld
    @MrDrbld 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Great stuff. It would be good to rein.force this exposition with a biography or index of primary and secondary sources as well as references to existing exhibits, inscriptions, manuscripts that reinforce this account and that can be independently consulted. (irritating message from You tube when I comment : Cannot read properties of undefined (reading 'data'))

  • @yurifjr8350
    @yurifjr8350 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    thank you make people more aware about islam guys, you guys really doing fantastic job 😉

  • @purplesand3874
    @purplesand3874 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    There are also ruins of an ancient church, circa 400 A.D., in eastern Saudi Arabia. I think it's near the city of Jubail. Some Aramco engineers discovered it and took photos. Subsequently when the news got out, vandals destroyed the crosses and then the Saudi government fenced the area off.

  • @markaxworthy2508
    @markaxworthy2508 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Excellent. The use of maps helps clarify the spatial situation.

  • @theoldone3835
    @theoldone3835 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Fascinating stuff! Thank you Thomas.

  • @pankaja7974
    @pankaja7974 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I keep waiting for Thomas’s videos 😍

  • @tobyluke1
    @tobyluke1 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    This is a quality and intuitive interpretation of events. All so simple.

  • @supernautacus
    @supernautacus 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    When I think
    Meditate
    And contemplate for my soul
    Watch the truth manifest
    Once the story unfold

    • @_Archambaud
      @_Archambaud 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Rza. Flying birds

  • @maxschon7709
    @maxschon7709 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    God bless you both - we really need to interchange the scripts in different languages.

  • @paladinhansen137
    @paladinhansen137 3 ปีที่แล้ว +21

    the more I learn about Islam the more I fall in love with Orthodoxy.

    • @MP-kc8sl
      @MP-kc8sl 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I'm interested in orthodoxy but it barely exists on my country.

    • @harrytomdick2401
      @harrytomdick2401 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Please can you explain a bit more.

    • @Yuyup7334
      @Yuyup7334 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@MP-kc8sl
      Which country do you live in presently?

    • @alonzoharris6730
      @alonzoharris6730 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      The trinity is a contradiction.

    • @collybever
      @collybever 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@alonzoharris6730 Should you not be able to grasp the idea somewhat from your own youtube use? As in you are one (human) being, yet present as different persons ... Alonzo, Mike Hunt, Jason Bourne. Of course with the Trinity the persons of the Godhead are very distinctive in their roles, it's not a glove so to speak So God the Father is in heaven, the Holy Spirit comes to be with the believer, but also in some sense everywhere for anyone honestly seeking God, does miracles at the cell level, molecule level up (sometimes administered by angels), Jesus comes to display God's nature to us so we can understand fully, and to personally redeem the willing ... the Allah idea is oversimplified, and requires something more akin to blind faith to hold that idea, as in there is no personal revelation, due to Him being too above us to relate with us meaningfully.

  • @gazgandalf4854
    @gazgandalf4854 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I'm a very visual person and I taught with the use of images. Thomas has done a great job here, but I will look forward to Dr Jays presentation of these facts. When he uses his Powerpoint he manages to condense the important information into maps, essential dates, people etc I think he's excellent.

  • @urbandsouza7279
    @urbandsouza7279 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Vow vow Thomas great research.god bless and stay safe

  • @divyachacko3449
    @divyachacko3449 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    What a great informative video. Now everything makes sense

  • @Fay1298
    @Fay1298 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Thank you Thomas. This is excellent and makes so much sense. Just a question, I know you mentioned that there was no evidence of any battles such as the battle of Yarmouk, which always baffled me as how could some tribes from the Arabian desert travel to Syria and defeat the Roman army. My question is do you have any thoughts on the battle of Dhi Qar that the Arab tribes fought against the Sassanids, and the Tayye tribes? Thank you Thomas and Jay.

    • @TAlexander
      @TAlexander 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Again we don’t have any evidence outside the standard Islamic narrative. In Persia, it’s a bit murkier though as we know there to have been a lot of infighting with the Arabs in the midst of things. So it’s plausible that real encounters were exaggerated and re-interpreted as a war of conquest when it really was skirmishes between various Persian factions that involved Arabs.
      EDIT: It is however important to remember that the standard Islamic narrative follows tropes. None of the names are historically attested, most stories serve the purpose of creating a legend. So while there may be a tiny kernel of truth in there, for all intends and purposes none of it really happened. If there was one or the other real battle, it was nothing like the SIN tells us.

    • @alonzoharris6730
      @alonzoharris6730 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@TAlexander
      You are going to ignore the non muslim sources of big battles in Syria. Have some honesty. Don't be like Paul in the bible.

    • @Fay1298
      @Fay1298 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@TAlexander thank you again. Looking forward to your next video.

    • @MU-we8hz
      @MU-we8hz 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@alonzoharris6730 mohamed is not worthy of licking Pauls sandal.

    • @annemurphy9339
      @annemurphy9339 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@MU-we8hz Amen to that!

  • @jamalkhan3708
    @jamalkhan3708 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Great work. God bless you both.

  • @cathys465
    @cathys465 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thomas,
    Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. However I urge you to repeat this lecture after you get a better microphone so that I and others like me will be able to better understand who did what to whom in the Middle East in the seventh century.

  • @dinosaur0073
    @dinosaur0073 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank for your effort....now the picture start to clear from our minds and how it was at that time....its all about Persian and Rome..Got it..!!!!

  • @tommyrotton9468
    @tommyrotton9468 3 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    I think I'd need a more interactive map showing what Thomas describes to understand what is going on in real time. But what I seem to understand is the Sassanids have occupied all the lands the Muslims later claim Muhammad's companions have conquered. But the reality the Arab family tribes only started to occupy these land long before Islam because the Sassanids retreated official armies from. These nomads were living from looting from the locals, until they ended up being made rulers and paid off in taxes.
    So is what Thomas saying is multiple family tribe of Arabs ruled, but even if that is true other family tribes still roamed about looting and living of the land, If a major cities surrender it was because their family Arab tribe wasn't able or around to prevent the looting.
    This chaos goes on until family's make alliances make larger forces and larger areas of a united ownerships, until eventually all tribal efforts get united under one king, But there are still religious differences, as well as internal and external politics going on, until we get the Abbasids and the the invention of a prophet story. The story is made full of accepted religion injected with current popular tribal customs so that all the main tribal players can agree on. That prophet man get placed in a land far far away, in a new city, so no tribe can boast a direct lineage and theoretically start a new war of succession?

    • @HueyPPLong
      @HueyPPLong 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Except the Shia exactly does claim a direct lineage succession rights?

  • @bentajay2026
    @bentajay2026 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thankyou the Islam origin is about to unveil
    May GOD strengthen you in this mission

  • @justaminute3111
    @justaminute3111 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    A lot of audiophiles are complaining about the sound, but with exception of the lack of arrows indicating the directions of the deportations, this was great.

  • @Pilgrum
    @Pilgrum 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Lord Jesus Christ Son of God have mercy on me a sinner.

  • @pincheguey1325
    @pincheguey1325 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Jay, it seams to me that the Mu'tazila ideology or philosophy was the engine of the "muslim" golden era.
    Is it possible to find out what religion the Umayyad and Abbasid caliphs were? To me the first "muslims" were Christians that had problems understanding the trinity.
    Also seams like they wanted to include Zoroastrian believes in their reformation of the religion.

  • @yakovmatityahu
    @yakovmatityahu 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I knew all the way and had been telling all along that the Byzantine-Sassanian war of 602-628 AD was the war that cooked up the Arab Empire who later cooked up Islam.

  • @RedWolf75
    @RedWolf75 3 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    Thomas, this has been my suspicion as well. I never though the Byzantines reoccupied Syria and Egypt.
    So Yarmuk never happened. It's just the Arabs broke off from the Byzantine Empire

    • @yakovmatityahu
      @yakovmatityahu 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Its all the fault of Heraclius who abandoned the old territory to Arabs who took over and misused that areas to make a new violent cult religion.

    • @yakovmatityahu
      @yakovmatityahu 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      One man can change or destroy future !

    • @RedWolf75
      @RedWolf75 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@yakovmatityahu
      Yup

  • @DrMarceloSantos
    @DrMarceloSantos 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Very good! May I ask a question? Where does the Jewish Revolt fits in? Also what about the famous Battle of Yarmouk? Also, what about dhimmitude, particularly in Egypt when that started? Thanks a lot!

    • @yakovmatityahu
      @yakovmatityahu ปีที่แล้ว

      Battle of Yarmouk was not a big battle, it was a minor conflict.

  • @vildvin1
    @vildvin1 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Thank you very much ! It’s so good to know the true history in this world so filled with myths….

  • @edwardcham291
    @edwardcham291 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Hi. Can we explain why 622ad was referred to as the year of the Arabs? Something of note must have happened from the point of view of the Arabs to cause this, not merely the withdrawal of Persians. What was it?

    • @flutterstone1281
      @flutterstone1281 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I agree; something big happened. Joe from Red Judaism thinks it was the battle of Dhi Qar, though most other scholars date it to as early as 604.

    • @foreignstarz
      @foreignstarz 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      It’s the year of the Arab independence from both the Byzantines and Persians. Two major Arab tribes launched an invasion of the Middle East and Persia. It was lead by mostly Christianized Arabs , however they were mostly heretics.
      The “caliphs” are not historical however there was definitely some messianic Arab movement.

    • @TheUnique69able
      @TheUnique69able 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@foreignstarz the caliphs seem to be historical. Many sources like the Byzantine chronicles mention them by name and give more a less similar chronology

    • @charlesiragui2473
      @charlesiragui2473 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I gathered that 622 was critical because that was the year Persians pulled out and the Arab auxiliaries were elevated to royal status as the rulers of client states (like the Germanic kingdoms filling out the former Western Roman Empire).
      This is exactly the kind of event that would begin time: when the divine anointment of kingship is conferred.

    • @foreignstarz
      @foreignstarz 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@TheUnique69able the only caliph that we can truly say existed is probably Mu’awiya.
      As for the Rashidun , there is a lot of foggy moments. I’ve read that Ali had a following and claimed to speak Jesus words. As for Abu Bakr and Uthman it seems that they are somewhat fabricated characters but I may be wrong.

  • @ibra1986
    @ibra1986 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hello Mr. Smith. I am an ex-muslim . I have been following you since my conversion. I want to be your student in polimics. Am a Ghanaian but was born in Côtes d'ivoire. My family is still in Islam and want to stand and confront Islam

  • @gentz8310
    @gentz8310 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Great stuff 👍

  • @CHAS1422
    @CHAS1422 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    What about the battle of Yarmuk in 636 AD that is recorded in Byzantine chronicles?

    • @RedWolf75
      @RedWolf75 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I'm thinking it was a Byzantine attempt at reconquest that failed.

    • @Stardust475
      @Stardust475 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      There is also the Khuzestan Chronicles that mention Arabs fighting the Persians....and the fall of the Sassanid Empire.

    • @yakovmatityahu
      @yakovmatityahu 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      The question is that when was this chronicle written...it will tell you lot of things.

  • @MrMrneil1
    @MrMrneil1 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    great work Thomas, it looks like 'Percival' of the Grail romance

  • @coffeecup7084
    @coffeecup7084 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank you Jay and Thomas great work

  • @PatriotPaul759
    @PatriotPaul759 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Very interesting. Thank you.

  • @danielturcotte9146
    @danielturcotte9146 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    AWESOME INFORMATION THANKS FOR YOUR PRESENTATION

  • @jamesmoran385
    @jamesmoran385 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Where can more information be found on what happened in Armenia in 622?

  • @nathanallen1111
    @nathanallen1111 3 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    Fantastic job with this video guys! My question goes right along with it.
    Thomas, Khalid ibn al-walid always seemed, to me, too good to be true. He is like a protagonist from a Hollywood western movie-he never loses a fight and is generous to his friends. My question is: have you found any evidence of this warrior in the historical record?
    A side note: I’ve found no historical evidence of the battle of yarmouk 636 where tens of thousands of Byzantine soldiers were routed by a smaller Muslim force and (lol) every Muslim champion sent out to fight the Byzantine champions, 6vs6 champion fight before the battle, utterly destroyed their Byzantine interlocutor. Sounds like bad fan-fiction to me, but many TH-cam history channels go through the battle step by step through the SIN model.
    Keep at it Jay, you only ever get better!

    • @TAlexander
      @TAlexander 3 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Not only is there no evidence for Khalid, there is no evidence for any of the battles. We don’t have ancient battlefields with arrowheads or broken equipment, we don’t have destroyed cities, we don’t even have anyone mentioning these battles before the standard Islamic narrative.

    • @nathanallen1111
      @nathanallen1111 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@TAlexander Thanks for the answer! I’m on a quest to find out who invented Khalid. I’m thinking maybe ibn shihab al-zuhri as my best guess. If you have any insight on where this figure first appeared, I would love to hear it. Also, perhaps a video presentation on this figure might be something Jay’s audience would like.

    • @aaabrams1889
      @aaabrams1889 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@TAlexander
      Because you cannot find evidence for any of the battles...does not means that Khalid did not exist.

    • @charlesiragui2473
      @charlesiragui2473 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@aaabrams1889 I believe Thomas meant that there is no contemporaneous written evidence for either Khalid or the battles and, in addition, there is no physical evidence. That would certainly be reason to doubt his existence.

    • @roshlew6994
      @roshlew6994 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@TAlexander 1. The arrows in the maps need to be fixed. Use different arrows for military movement and people movements.
      2. More detailing needed for the period between 602AD - 628AD.
      3. Any truth to the events of Rashidun caliphate 632AD - 661AD. Is this actually a indication of power struggle for supremacy between various Arab Emirates that were vassals of Byzantines?
      4. More details needed for period from 628AD until Muawiya takes control in 660s. How does the apocalyptical predictions factor in the events surrounding Arab take-over of Levant? How does it get converted to establishment of Umayyad dynasty?
      5. Who were the Abbasids? Were they remnants of Persian empire ie. Sassanids, Parthians etc. Was Zubair (the dude who revolted against Umayyads during reign of Marwan & Abdl-Malik) an Abbasid?

  • @hypota6872
    @hypota6872 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Excellent work, my question to you guys is as you know the Aramaic language was the most important language for both Lakhmaid and Gossonid tribes, how these people decided to switch to Arabic which in that time was a minority language?

    • @alonzoharris6730
      @alonzoharris6730 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The Ghassanids wrote in Arabic.

    • @hypota6872
      @hypota6872 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@alonzoharris6730 They we’re Nebatians and their language was Aramaic, Arabs were in Hejaz region

    • @alonzoharris6730
      @alonzoharris6730 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@hypota6872
      Nabatians had Arabic names and not Aramaic names. They wrote in Arabic. Inscriptions all testify that they were Arabs with Arab names and Arab language.

    • @michaels4255
      @michaels4255 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Aramaic functioned for a long time as their "Latin" while Arabic was the everyday vernacular.

  • @albertpurification9413
    @albertpurification9413 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Great job .

  • @paul_321
    @paul_321 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Okay, time to start watching. Will be playing catch up

  • @sebastiendefrance9986
    @sebastiendefrance9986 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Unravelling more materials that comes into contradiction with the Standard Islamic Narrative. Good job.

  • @KayKusoden
    @KayKusoden 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Is there any academician like Thomas (preferable a german academician) but his profession is on sassanids and so we can listen to more details about the Iranians that time?
    Is there any recommendations for youtube videos or books (german or english) for the Iranian history?

  • @tomefromyou
    @tomefromyou 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Unfortunately the sound is not good, hope you will redo this video again?

  • @jamesgriffith4
    @jamesgriffith4 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    In one of your lectures you mentioned the Arabs pre-Islamic rebuilding the Jewish temple. When was this and what evidence is there for it?

  • @bibiandjoshua
    @bibiandjoshua 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Excellent

  • @ibra1986
    @ibra1986 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I really want to be your student. You've given me little knowledge and I want to know more about Islam. You've opened my eyes on Islam. Please accept me as your student

  • @charlesiragui2473
    @charlesiragui2473 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Great job Thomas! You have cogently explained how we can have an Islamic calendar without a Prophet Mohammad. Arab auxiliaries were promoted to kings in 622, the beginning of their reigns, their elevation to near divine status.
    Can I suggest a next question? Where did the Sunni / Shia split come from? Could it be conflicts between Western and Eastern Arab Christians? The Shia blame the Sunni for the poor organization of the Quran, saying the suras were compiled poorly by Uthman. Could this have grounding in actual arguments surrounding the lectionary? The Umayyads ruled from Damascus, perhaps Western Christian Arabs. The Abbasids ruled from Baghdad, perhaps Eastern Christian Arabs.

    • @TAlexander
      @TAlexander 3 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      Great question. TBH, while I have read articles on this, it hasn’t been a topic I focused on as I was really concentrating on the origin of the Quran whereas this split is definitely much later. But I probably should dig into this. If I remember correctly, the Shia come from a Christian strand with a stronger Gnostic influence. Ali is in many ways a Gnostic archetype. Unfortunately I don’t remember the details. But I’ll definitely look into it again.

    • @charlesiragui2473
      @charlesiragui2473 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@TAlexander It’s also notable that the anointing of kings corresponds better with the historical events as you’ve explained them.
      The new Arab kings were Byzantine clients: their power comes from Persian defeat. This explains why the capital would necessarily be in Damascus, the Arab city of the west, rather than Babylon, the capital of the east.
      And the anger would come from those in the east who feel forgotten, even though they were at the origin of Arab rule.

    • @roshlew6994
      @roshlew6994 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@TAlexander Could the roots of the Shia-Sunni split be found in the rivalry between Ghassinid & Lakhmid kingdoms?

  • @markaxworthy2508
    @markaxworthy2508 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Unlike the prolonged Byzantine-Persian war that preceded them, the Arab conquests were extremely rapid and their armies relatively small. They need not necessarily have caused as extensive damage as their predecessors.

  • @nikicavujovic2332
    @nikicavujovic2332 ปีที่แล้ว

    Something is very interseting on the map at 11:30. In the Hajaz region, there are significant christian minority, except Macca or Madinah area in which it is majority! Other thing which should be imortant is the which dogmatic group were at these areas: non-ortodox, but probably nestorian (is it possible late aryan)?

  • @julioquirino2131
    @julioquirino2131 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very interesting. But how do you fit PETRA and the Qiblas in this version of the story?

    • @aaabrams1889
      @aaabrams1889 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      ALL BULLSHIT - HA HA HA...if this should be presented at University level, they would surely be the laughing stock...ha ha ha

    • @Moroccanpaul
      @Moroccanpaul 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Kaaba was a pilgrimage point for pagans. Look what John of Damascus told about the black stone Khabar

  • @phun1901
    @phun1901 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    This community is the avante garde of scholarship, so I thought I would ask this here, has anyone discussed the possibility of mondegreens in oral transmission? That's when people mishear song lyrics and learn them wrong. I was thinking, what if a person hears something that is phonetically perfectly pronounced, but the listener hears it and interprets in different dialect. And then a variant meaning is created in the memory of the listener. The standard narrative is that dialectical differences were significant enough that Allah needed to permit dialectical variations, so crosspollination of these groups would create misunderstanding. I think we can make much of the plasticity and plurality of the Arabic language groups back in the day.
    I don't think the Quran was orally transmitted from one large group to another large group. But even if someone did believe that, I think we could deconstruct their confidence in that as a bastion against errors. And might gain some insight into mondegreen origins of some variants.

    • @bitchoflivingblah
      @bitchoflivingblah 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I am saying this with utter sincerity: SFW?
      We can never know so much about Christianity or Islam, or many ancient religions for that matter, because we don't have the information. We can reconstruct some aspects of their evolution and growth historically, but this is always going to rely on conjecture and supposition, and will not be immune from unconscious and conscious bias, as evident in this video.
      Also, it's a case of closing the barn door after the horses have bolted isn't it?
      I can see the point of this exercise if it was conducted as academic study, but this clearly isn't the case here.

    • @Wordpirate
      @Wordpirate 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
      11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
      12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.
      Deuteronomy 27-28 are lovely!
      HALLELUJAH@ALHAMDULILLAH
      #SAVEMASJIDILAQSANOW
      No THIRD TEMPLE on TEMPLE MOUNT
      Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 114:
      وَمَنْ أَظْلَمُ مِمَّن مَّنَعَ مَسَاجِدَ اللَّهِ أَن يُذْكَرَ فِيهَا اسْمُهُ وَسَعَىٰ فِي خَرَابِهَا أُولَٰئِكَ مَا كَانَ لَهُمْ أَن يَدْخُلُوهَا إِلَّا خَائِفِينَ لَهُمْ فِي الدُّنْيَا خِزْيٌ وَلَهُمْ فِي الْآخِرَةِ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ
      And who is more unjust than he who prevents (men) from the masjids of Allah, that His name should be remembered in them, and strives to ruin them? (As for) these, it was not proper for them that they should have entered them except in fear; they shall meet with disgrace in this world, and they shall have great chastisement in the hereafter.
      (English - Shakir)
      th-cam.com/video/ZiSRCPiklhI/w-d-xo.html

    • @john318john
      @john318john 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@bitchoflivingblah The Universities Academic studies in Europe and US don't want to touch this because they're being funded my Saudi Arabia and other wealthy middle east countries. Most especially in the UK, they don't want to dig deep into the historical research that would expose SIN. The Academics are doing that with Climate Change religion now. You cannot rely on Academic research anymore because they've abrogated the search for the truth.

    • @bitchoflivingblah
      @bitchoflivingblah 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@john318john What would be the point? You don't think the Quran and the prophet's life hasn't been mercilessly deconstructed and ridiculed?
      It has, by muslim scholars no less.
      Some of their work is accessible on the web via pdf and practically all has been published.
      So, enough of this 'academics won't do this because they have been bought off' rubbish.
      Now to may larger point; SFW; a thousand of these works -deconstructing Islam - wouldn't change the mind of a single muslim, and if you don't know why, then it really shows the level of ignorance you are working under.
      The same goes for Christianity - it has been fairly ruthlessly deconstructed - more so than Islam because it is within the purview of western academics many if not all live in Christian majority countries. BTW why would you think these people would be the best to study the Quran when they have little or no understanding of the role of Islam in peoples lives? But, Christianity is the largest religion in the world and no amount of deconstruction and destruction of the foundations of the religion is going to affect that simply because the horses have bolted the barn.
      So why not spend your time defending your Church, as muslims do, rather than attacking other religions, it's so unbecoming.

    • @michaels4255
      @michaels4255 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@bitchoflivingblah If Muslim scholars had already done this job adequately (and you do not cite a single one), western scholars would not be reinventing the wheel. And there are plenty of apologists already defending Christianity against would be deconstructionists. We have been doing that since back in the 19th century. This however is relatively new.

  • @pvdguitars2951
    @pvdguitars2951 3 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    A dream team made in heaven 🤗
    Almost 1500 views in barely two hours!
    Just amazing.
    I just love how our Lord is helping to get reveal THE TRUTH.
    To use Jay’s words, this is very damaging for the SIN.
    Let’s all pray that our Muslim friends will find and accept their origins: Jesus Christ!

    • @yakovmatityahu
      @yakovmatityahu 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      This shows that people are hungry for truth...not all is lost.

  • @felixcalamus3186
    @felixcalamus3186 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Servus Thomas, I was wondering wheather the Inara school also considers the Justinian Plague as a factor that might have contributed to the success of the Arabs?

    • @TAlexander
      @TAlexander 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I haven’t read anything on the Justinian plague by the people of Inarah, but of course it must have played a role, if only indirectly. It was one major factor weakening the Byzantine Empire in the run-up to the war(s) with the Persians.

    • @felixcalamus3186
      @felixcalamus3186 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@TAlexander Many thanks

  • @JohnVander70
    @JohnVander70 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    So interesting, thanks!

  • @thinkingperson2122
    @thinkingperson2122 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The invasion of the Iberian Peninsula in 711 should be fascinating to examine in the light of this new narrative.
    What did the invading people say about themselves? Did they mention Mohammed or the Qur'an?
    What did the locals say about the invading people?

  • @petrusveritas2385
    @petrusveritas2385 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love this channel!

  • @mattaikay925
    @mattaikay925 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    audio quality not great - lots of echo

  • @MrDrbld
    @MrDrbld 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    And can we have a stream that investigates the Al Andalus period? There is so much coming to light, literally being unearthed in Spain in the last 15 years. In particular the archeological evidence that proves gravestones, Mosques and key islamic sites DID NOT face Mecca from 711 til about the 850s. Not graves in Tauste (recently excavated necropolis with burials dated to the late 700s) nor, famously, the Mosque in Cordoba or recently excavated burial sites next door. And the oldest surviving Al Andlusian Korans...? One of the best known chroniclers of Islamic medieval Spain and their Quiblas is Dr. Monica Ruis, whose doctoral thesis was grounded in research by....Dr David King. What does that tell you? Clean up needed?

    • @TAlexander
      @TAlexander 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I‘ve got some videos in the pipeline dealing with al-Andalus.

    • @MrDrbld
      @MrDrbld 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@TAlexander Fantastico. Ya cuentas con un seguidor!!

    • @alonzoharris6730
      @alonzoharris6730 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      What does 'face Mecca mean'? Can you give me a definition?

    • @MrDrbld
      @MrDrbld 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@alonzoharris6730 Adios troll

    • @alonzoharris6730
      @alonzoharris6730 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@MrDrbld
      You are not giving definitions.

  • @potkinazarmehr
    @potkinazarmehr 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    The SIN of how Arabs conquered Persia never made sense to me. A disintegration of the Sassanid empire and an internal coup by Arab mercenaries and immigrants makes much more sense and very similar to the 1979 Islamic revolution in Iran

  • @Danielst15lm
    @Danielst15lm 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    No mention of Nehemiah Ben Hushiel and his conquest of Jerusalem during this war between Heraclius and Kashraw II??
    This is like the central most important event during this time period!

  • @philipguillermond2483
    @philipguillermond2483 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Interesting but can he use an external mic next time?

  • @senecaknowsbest8380
    @senecaknowsbest8380 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Ever notice how jay occasionally mispronounces English words like an Indian with the emphasis on the wrong syllable? Like the word “origins” which is OR-ih-gins not or-RIG-ins. Just an observation.

  • @davidrapalyea7727
    @davidrapalyea7727 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good god, the endless endless YAPING at the begining? I had to leave before my head exploded!

  • @hypnosecoachinghombach7517
    @hypnosecoachinghombach7517 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It reminds me very strongly of what I've read in Karl-Heinz Ohlig series of books.

  • @MrDrbld
    @MrDrbld 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    35:09 MUCH, MUCH MORE should be developed on the so called ‘Year of Hijra’ system. The dating from 622 independence as the year of the Arabs and all its empirical proofs should be part of a separate series , in particular in credence to Numismatic sources which, otherwise, give credence to the ‘Hijra’ and provide a false chronology.

  • @holyarmor578
    @holyarmor578 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Why don't you mention the Armenians which is a central player in what your talking about in the video. It seems like you have missed that important part.

  • @traveleurope5756
    @traveleurope5756 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thomas, Was Muawiya from Marw originally too? Was he a general in the Sasanian army?

    • @TAlexander
      @TAlexander 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      To be honest, I don’t know. We have good reasons to believe that Abd al-Malik was from Merv. If they were indeed related, then Mu’awiya was likely also from Merv, but we cannot know for certain.
      As for his role, he started out as an Emir. One could also call him a warlord. Meaning he was the head of an Arab tribe. Among the Arab Emirs, he became the first among equals when he was elected Commander of the Faithful.

    • @RedWolf75
      @RedWolf75 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@TAlexander
      I think Mu'awiya was Syrian. Hence why his capital was Damascus.

  • @roshlew6994
    @roshlew6994 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    1. The arrows in the maps need to be fixed. Use different arrows for military movement and people movements.
    2. More detailing needed for the period between 602AD - 628AD
    3. Any truth to the events of Rashidun caliphate 632AD - 661AD. Is this actually a indication of power struggle for supremacy between various Arab Emirates that were vassals of Byzantines?
    4. More details needed for period from 628AD until Muawiya takes control in 660s. How does the apocalyptical predictions factor in the events surrounding Arab take-over of Levant? How does it get converted to establishment of Umayyad dynasty?
    5. Who were the Abbasids? Were they remnants of Persian empire ie. Sassanids, Parthians etc. Was Zubair (the dude who revolted against Umayyads during reign of Marwan & Abdl-Malik) an Abbasid?

  • @ilyasqabtani8724
    @ilyasqabtani8724 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thomas, if Abdul Malik Al Marwan was actually not son of Marwan, but Abdul Malik of Marw / Merv (like abu baqr al Baghdadi) then who was the historical person behind the fictious person Marwan ibn Haqqam?
    We know that Marwan had mother whose name is Ameena, and two of his wives are Zainab & Aisya. Doesn't it ring like a person from whom fictious character Muhammad the prophet was created ?

  • @jfkt9467
    @jfkt9467 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    What is the historical back ground of the Islamic narrative?

  • @hypnosecoachinghombach7517
    @hypnosecoachinghombach7517 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very good video content, only a very terrible, horrible sound of Thomas Alexander.
    Picture quality of a video is secondary. Voice is so important.
    Please make sure in your upcoming episodes that the sound is better.

    • @TAlexander
      @TAlexander 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      New mic is on its way. The next episodes are already recorded, but after that, it’ll get better.

    • @hypnosecoachinghombach7517
      @hypnosecoachinghombach7517 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@TAlexander it's not only the mike that's important, also, how you place it so that you don't have so much reverb (echo). If you need some ideas, you can contact me through my channel, I'd be glad to help.

  • @bobfisher1909
    @bobfisher1909 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice guys, your German guest mic is like his in a cave, the echo is making it hard to listen to its like hollow feedback..

  • @orunabho
    @orunabho 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    One of the things that make me wonder is the ethnic origin of the Ummayads and the Abbasids.
    From secular literature like the Arabian Nights a couple of things is clear.
    The ruling class were different from the commoners ethnically.
    1. The ruling class were not Persians.
    2. They were not Turks either. They were not Mamluks. Too sophisticated to be nomadic tribes.
    3. They were not Jewish people either.
    4. They were not nomadic desert dwellers like the Bedouins either, but people of sophistication with songs, wines, trade, literacy, city dwellers - settled people, but not farmers.
    5. They were not Christians or Armenians either.
    6. They were almost secular types, curious and enterprising...like a typical Archemedian or Parthian or even Sassanians.
    7. Their swords were Indo Greek swords,NOT the later date Arabic or Turki ones.
    8. They were generally more pale then the rest of the population. They are marked out in comparison to the rest.
    8. Reverence to the ancient Greeks.
    9. Slave trade? Of all different nations. very unlike Persians.
    Can they be actually Greeks or Indo Greeks. At least the Ummayads?
    Greeks, thanks to Alexander of Macedonia, had many settlements, cities and rule (the ruling class) from West of India to Syria - different, sophisticated, ruling class.
    Transoxiana is also a place they ruled from. Marv is in Transoxiana.
    Aramaic was a important language even in Transoxiana. Maybe because of trade. 3rd century BCE Emperor Ashoka of Magadha (India) had many surviving rock edicts. One is in Transoxiana. It is in Aramaic. Why Aramaic?
    Therefore the Greek, Aramaic connection, with the settlement in Syria to Transoxiana and a ruling class which was not Persians or Romans, but people who are used to rule, power and administration.
    Arabs and Turks were then too primitive to take over a superpower like Sassanians just like that.
    Who are the Arabs(not the Bedouins) ethnically is the question though. Or is it the language, Aramaic, and people who understands it.
    Imagine Afganistan taking over the US. Germans might have, but primitive people like Afghans...very very unlikely.

  • @catholicorthodoxfaith2689
    @catholicorthodoxfaith2689 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Good one. Can the Ummayads means Mother's party & Abbassids means Fathers Party of a great mixed parent Arab general who was installed by Heracles for governing Arabs after he defeated Sassanids. Got inspired from Mel's post.

  • @PeterHarremoes
    @PeterHarremoes 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Excellent video! The Battle at Yarmouk plays a major role in the Muslim traditions about how the Levant came under Muslim control. This battle was not mentioned in the video. How does this battle fit into the picture?

    • @TAlexander
      @TAlexander 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      There is zero evidence for a battle like this. It’s either complete fiction or so fictionalised that it bears no resemblance to real events anymore.

    • @alonzoharris6730
      @alonzoharris6730 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      He simply denied that it happened. He denied all non muslim sources of battles.

    • @PeterHarremoes
      @PeterHarremoes 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@alonzoharris6730 ​ Do you mean that he denied all Muslim sources or all non-Muslim sources?

    • @alonzoharris6730
      @alonzoharris6730 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@PeterHarremoes
      He denied the battles recorded by non muslim sources.

    • @aaabrams1889
      @aaabrams1889 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@PeterHarremoes
      Why do they deny the history recorded by Muslims about Islam? I know that all victors who records their history are a little biased and exaggerate their success but this is ridiculous...ha ha ha

  • @i7Qp4rQ
    @i7Qp4rQ 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Suggestion: better mic for Thomas

    • @TAlexander
      @TAlexander 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I‘m on it. We have still some pre-recorded videos without the new mic, but after that, the sound quality will hopefully improve.

    • @i7Qp4rQ
      @i7Qp4rQ 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@TAlexander Good good, and God bless!

    • @yakovmatityahu
      @yakovmatityahu 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      If Thomas puts his theories in a Book about Origins of Islam...i believe it will be a massive hit in the world.

    • @TAlexander
      @TAlexander 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@yakovmatityahu As I'm currently working on exactly that book, I hope that you are correct 😉

    • @yakovmatityahu
      @yakovmatityahu 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@TAlexander i hope and request you to send me a signed copy of your book i will order from the website 😊 ☺

  • @jonnyy4088
    @jonnyy4088 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent content.

  • @staggeredpotato6941
    @staggeredpotato6941 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    oh tututututu

  • @zygmuntkonstancinski2518
    @zygmuntkonstancinski2518 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    History though needs heroes, real life men and women who by their dedication and actions changed the world and destinies of many. Thomas' history had many, but we need more about those Arab, Sassanid, Persian rulers and leaders. Then the history starts to live and maybe, just maybe, within this web of interests, human strengths and weakness we might be able to discern how the Islam emerged as another human dream. Dream of an empire. Empire of evil.

  • @miguelsureda9762
    @miguelsureda9762 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Tomas ! All these maps and NO reference to the jews is like describing a submarine based on what you see above the water. What is BELOW the water is where you have to look for. The REACTION to all the events described and the unmentioned ones involving the jews.

    • @TAlexander
      @TAlexander 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I could only cover so much. Since the Jews don’t play much of a role in the formation of Islam, I didn’t cover them. Their role in the formation of Islam is often overestimated because people don’t take anti-Trinitarian Christians into account.

    • @miguelsureda9762
      @miguelsureda9762 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@TAlexander Tomas, i would strongly suggest you would read AJ Deus 's papers 'Surah 2 Many Qiblas',' Mhmd/mHMT' ,The seeds of the Qoran and his recent' The deceiver's deception' on the Doctrina Jacobi. Also there is an interesting report (that i only follow partialy but nevertheless interesting referring the first ALI,( a title as well just as Mohammed,by ben Abrahamov on The role of the exilarch in the Persian conquest of Jerusalm compared to the 'islamic' one. That AND the location of the real Mecca and Medina that definately is not in the Hijaz and only can be located where there was action BEFORE 638 meaning Iraq, madkes me conclude an180 degree opposite view than the one you express, IT IS ALL ABOUT JEWS AGAINST OTHER JEWS. That is also implied in Odon 's remarks on 'the pople of the book'.

    • @Bei-Abedan
      @Bei-Abedan 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@TAlexander the problem with the "German school" has always been its ignorance of Judaism. It has always dismissed Judaic views and (let's never forget) burned so many Jewish books. One would have hoped that by the 21st Century, attitudes towards taking a Judaic perspective might have changed at least a little by now.
      There used to be something called "The Rope" and later also "the Ultimate Bulletin Board" on Free-Minds where I and the founders of Inara used to throw ideas back and fourth around the turn of the millennium. We also discussed Jay's ideas about Jerusalem at that time. Some were still obsessed with Petra because there was some funding available (allegedly from Queen Noor of Jordan). Some tried to convince me of the Islamic Quran's "19 miracle" but an Egyptian member I met in Frankfurt and I discovered that it failed the test on our computers. Maybe you should ask some of the people you respect about it.
      They liked my exegeses of some difficult passages but there was never much respect for the Judaic perspective. On the contrary, there was rather some support for the Standard Islamic attitude towards Jews and Judaism.

    • @TAlexander
      @TAlexander 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Bei-Abedan
      Mate, your book burning comparisons are uncalled for. Where did I say that Jewish scholarship is to be ignored? The opposite is true. I myself rely heavily on Yehuda Nevo for example. All I'm saying is that the Jews did not influence the early Quranic movement as much as is often believed. And I stand by that.
      As for the German school, it is traditionally rather knowledgeable about Judaism. Many of the founding fathers of the critical Quran study have been Jews. Most notably Ignaz Goldziher who despite being Hungarian was and still is a major part of the German school. Or David Heinrich Müller. That doesn't change the fact that the evidence clearly points towards Syrian anti-Trinitarian Christians as the milieu the Quran evolved in. The fact that it's decidedly anti-Jewish should give people a hint.
      Yes, there are clear parallels to Judaism in the early Quranic movement, but they are much better explained by a transmission through Syriac Christianity which itself was heavily reliant on Jewish traditions. The mistake many people make when looking at the 6th and 7th centuries is to look at Christianity back then through the prism of what they know of as Christianity today. But basically all forms of modern Christianity are decedents of hellenised Christianity. Syrian Christianity was different. It had much more of an Old Testament focus, in terms of mentality, it was much closer to Hebrews than to Greeks.

    • @Bei-Abedan
      @Bei-Abedan 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      ​@@TAlexander Your response raises a few serious concerns. Firstly, calling someone "mate" is aggressive and unacademic and that brings us to the second point. Coming from your nation it is normal to be ready to face criticism on this matter and be ready to double-check to be sure before you dismiss Judaism so flippantly as you have on this topic.
      When a couple of people like us come along and raise this concern to you then you should take it seriously and do something about it. Your nation is the one responsible for spreading anti-Semitism throughout Europe. Your nation is the one responsible through extensive propaganda campaigns for turning tolerant Poland (the only country in Europe to welcome Jews when we were being persecuted), into a fascistic carbon copy of Nazi Germany so that now it is illegal to make a comment like this in Poland against a Polish academic. Hence I had better take as much opportunity as I can to make this as clear as possible before the current climate leads to a world-wide ban on criticizing research like this.
      The book burning is no small issue which we should turn away from and refuse to acknowledge its lasting affect on the German academy. No German should ever get offended about the reminder.
      Running off the names of a few apparently secular "Jews" (uninformed on Judaism if I take your word for it) isn't anything like the sort of compensation that is needed. The thing the Nazis didn't like as you know was JUDAISM, and only later the idea of Jewish ancestry also became a problem. Therefore you need to know about JUDAISM which clearly you don't since you have not yet recognized how much Mishnah and Kabbalah is in the Quranic materials. The horrific suppression of the Judaic Haskalah has corrupted the German academy (and also the Jewish mentality) for CENTURIES to come and imho its affects can only be reversed if all German academies made passing exams in Judaism a prerequisite for entry into a German academy.
      So your resort to aggression ("mate") rather than dealing with this more rationally is worrying. It is a sign of the current "snowflake-culture" that instead of double-checking yourself you resort to aggression in response to advise from at least 2 people here (and I don't know how many other people elsewhere) that you shouldn't dismiss Judaism so quickly when it is clear that you have very little clue about it. if you understood it better you would realize that a lot of what you are talking about is Judaism and you would inform yourself more about it to bring fourth fruit. You have already been pulled up on your lack of knowledge and inability to distinguish the three groups described as "Ebionites" for example which if you understood better would lead to to realize how many baseless assumptions you have made.
      Now I would imagine that your aggressive response and snowflake attitude to the reminder every German needs unto the 4th generation according to the Bible is not a reflection of your true personality but rather the cultural climate and conditioning that you have become accustomed to. And in light of that I recommend to you two videos which you will need to get a basic idea on the subject which you are attempting to speak about.
      For a background on Hebrew Messianism:
      th-cam.com/video/ta_iTUt8tpc/w-d-xo.html
      ...and then for an introduction to the influence of Hebrew Messianism on the emergence of Islam:
      th-cam.com/video/_iPa4dmoxyY/w-d-xo.html
      These are very brief overviews and introductions from off of the top of my head and so I ask forgiveness for slips of the tongue. I hope you will correct your completely unacceptable dismissal of the importance of Judaism by taking time to watch them both all the way through.
      In which case, there will be no hard feelings on my part.
      Happy New Year.

  • @PuLL365
    @PuLL365 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This worth more than silver and gold.

  • @roshlew6994
    @roshlew6994 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    What's on the obtuse face of Muawiya's coin?

  • @roshlew6994
    @roshlew6994 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I presume the Nestorian church no longer exists. The successors of the eastern churches today are Assyrian, Armenian and Chaldean churches.. even the Syriac/Jacobite churches of southern India..

    • @TAlexander
      @TAlexander 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Actually, the Assyrian Church of the East is the Nestorian church. It is now quite small compared to its heyday, but it’s still around.

    • @roshlew6994
      @roshlew6994 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@TAlexander is the Syrian churches of South India affiliated to Assyrian church?

    • @TAlexander
      @TAlexander 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@roshlew6994 Historically they were, but when the Portuguese arrived there in the 15th century, they sent missionaries to convert them to Catholicism. Today it’s a mix. There are now seven Syro-Indian Churches, some are Jacobite, some Catholic, some Nestorian. But the liturgical language still is Aramaic for all of them.

    • @roshlew6994
      @roshlew6994 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@TAlexander they are syro-malabar churches too.. they have liturgy in Syriac rites , and also latin rites.. other than Jacobites, there's syro-malankara churches too..

    • @roshlew6994
      @roshlew6994 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@TAlexander the Muslims claim the cherman mosque in Kerala, India, is one of the earliest ones, probably existed in early 7th century. Could this be a repurposed Nestorian/Eastern orthodox church? Same could be said of Guangzhou mosque in China..

  • @cathys465
    @cathys465 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thomas needs a better microphone. The one he's using makes him sound like he's talking from inside of a metal barrel.

    • @TAlexander
      @TAlexander 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      No worries, it’s coming. The next few videos have still been recorded with the old mic. After that the quality will hopefully improve.

    • @roshlew6994
      @roshlew6994 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@TAlexander Subscribed to your TH-cam Channel. Looking forward to watching your videos. Hope they come soon. We need more brave and knowledgeable people like you and Jay to expose the true reality of Islam, It's origins, it's book & it's prophet.

  • @eugeniorobinson4556
    @eugeniorobinson4556 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Yes!

  • @BijoyP-h2l
    @BijoyP-h2l ปีที่แล้ว

    Great job

  • @1089S
    @1089S 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Heracles was a byzantine emperor of Armenian heritage who wanted to free Armenia from Persian domination. He empowered Arabs by providing arms to them and promoted Islam to put an end to Persian Empire. He is really the one who created Islam. What he did has backfired on his Armenian heritage and Armenians are suffering to this day for his mistake.

  • @britanikothegreat8513
    @britanikothegreat8513 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Genesis 1:16-26. Psalms 53:2-6. Do you know the Law or Will of God So can you implement this in the World... Hebrews 5:13. Hebreo 4:12.

  • @FRED-gx2qk
    @FRED-gx2qk 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    🌋🌋🌋🌋🌋🌋🌋🌋🌋🌋🌋WUNDERBAR !