Mike Thanks so much for the response. I have two 3M Panel Bonding Adhesive 6.75 oz. I would assume 100% of the bus structural I beams and top hats will get a coat of epoxy for rust protection (top surface only) to protect the beams at the floor high spots and you would apply epoxy to the underside of the floor so it makes contact at all low spots? It does not seem like 13.5 oz. of epoxy would not be enough to fill the voids at the floor high spots. Do I have this somewhat correct? I will also be installing belly pans.
+Tory lessley I used about 1 tube per cargo floor half. I am not sure how many oz they are. Mine is the larger gun. I had some left over. it really goes a long way. The way you are explaining it seems like you are on the right track. Make sure after you install the floors. you paint the underside of the floors with some rust prohibitive coating before you install the belly pans. Moisture can be inside that area snd cause further damage. If you are at the next OCTO. Ask eddy and daves garage Eddy knows me and I can coach you through more of the processes. Check out my new vid on another channel th-cam.com/video/7dsE-zva8so/w-d-xo.html
+Ricco Sawyer On my next split window bus I will make one. They re tricky. I dont use patch panels. they dont really make one. I have done all mine on the buses I have. I usually cut a 1 1/2 inch strip. Then bend it with a sheet metal bender to replicate the window edge. Tuck it under the existing lip and overlap weld it in. On the curved area I put slits in the window edge so it can be bent. I may post a small video of how to do it.
I ususally repair them cut off the outer edges and section it in. Most of the time that is the rusted part. The middle if I were to do it I would cut around the places where the tubes go through and section in to those areas. Notch it out of the new piece. and notch it out the same on the old.
MIke F; Sounds like you took the lazy way out. Epoxy glues de-catalyze over time(even the best ones)...plus under high-impact loads(both static and dynamic)..the bond of glue to whatever surface is compromised. It's why Boeing,Airbus,Embraer still use rivets along with epoxy to put their planes together. Using glue-alone, your ductility is very weak. It would have been much wiser to plug/spot weld,etc. that floor in place along with an Epoxy-glue,epoxy primer and a good quality seam sealer.
Todays panel adhesives are far stronger than spot welds even under the conditions you speak of! They are used by every car manufacture even all by itself such as the center of hoods door impact beams, trunk lids!
Just think of fieros, chevy lumina vans! Panels are glued on only! Fenders are bolted! Metal framed fiberglass and plastic panels and if you ever tried just to pull the parts apart youll either destroy the panel or the metal framing thats used to mount the panels! Ive only ever seen the glue fail once ! Due to improper preparation of the panel and attaching metal framing surfaces
this way minimizes rust. When you weld you heat up the area. this attracts rust. even if you use zinc spray it burns off when you weld. There are air gaps in every area and the metal coated with panel adhesive will not rust. The corrugated metal makes a field day for future rust. either way is a very long lasting repair and either way can fail over an indefinite amount of time. but if anything is left in the weather it will fail at some point no matter how you do it.
@@MikefngarageHooptie harbor freight sand/bead blaster would have been way to start with. There is no snake oil in a can that can solve an existing issue. I definitely would not drive/ ride in any vehicle held in place with just glue,no substitute for welds/ rivets as petroleum based products breakdown over time. With a gun,brush or aerosol can,if anti- corrosive measure applied correctly, there are no " rust" issues with welding or rivet application. Have a 40 yr old Peugeot wagon, replace O rings for roof rack and new ceiling speakers, that black epoxy paint and wax applied to roof structure and hollow areas; looks like it did when it left Sochaux assembly plant in France 40 years ago, no rust anywhere; even the spot/mig weld locations.
@@dmcnamara9859 while you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But I will agree with the engineers who made this product. FYI as an alternative to welding. Many of the signs up over your head on large buildings are held together with adhesives. He's adhesives are chemical resistant. Which I don't know why that would matter underneath a vehicle like that. They're designed to withstand the elements. Welcome to the new decades.
Hello Mike, Do you have any other videos showing how you use the panel adhesive? I am getting ready to install new Wolfsberg West cargo floor in my 1962 Bus. Thanks, Tory
+Tory lessley Not yet. Definately use it on those floors. the one to get is 3m. one tube should do it. But I would have 2 just in case. It is expensive but worth it. Stronger than welding on the floors by far... comes out so clean. Just watch the videos on this a few times. You will get it. Sorry for the pauses. I am not a good vid person just a good body man
+Mike Farnham one more thing. Installing the floors is fairly easy it is repairing the lower bulkhead that is difficult. you will see when you get the floors out. Use a panel cutter on a day when your neighbors are not around inside somewhere. very loud....
Nice video..let me ask you this..have you ever had to use a rotisserie to repair rust on any of your projects? I have a 78 westy and the guy I have working on it swears he needs one due to the amount of rust on the floor. Does that sound right? Sorry I have no clue and I just want to make sure I am not getting taken for a “ride” with regards to $$$?
well that depends on the guy doing the work and the quality of the work you are expecting. I can set a set of floors in with no lift or rotisserie. But some guys want to weld stuff downward because it is easier or they are trying to do a show quality job. Some guys want to sand blast everything then weld in stuff for cleaner more perfect work. I dont do that kind of restoration I just do a daily driver quality job. not original perfect butt welded panels. You can do a good job by just using rust converter, not sand blasting and overlap welding for the daily driver job. If that is what you want you should find a different guy. if you want a flawless restoration go with the rotisserie.
FYI the minute you decide to go with the Rotisserie on a split window van. I would plan on spending up to 60k on getting it restored. paint and body. The best guys around are shawn in Hesparia CA. There is also a shawn in Vancouver island Canada and Morrie Hotzen in Oregon. Most charge flat by the hour and that is what most guys end up paying in the long run at 85 an hour.
Thank you for the help...I am def not looking for a show stopper just want my westy to look and go nice so that I can go camping with the fam. Thanks again for the help and keep the vids coming!
"Properly" does not include chiseling the spot welds. Drilling out the spots out and lifting the panel out without hammers is proper. Chiseling the spots twists and deforms the material and will never be straight again, making installing a new panel multitudes harder.
you are not bending those supports.......Only the top hats and not much at that. Sometimes when you drill you drill too deep and deform the metal or drill all the way through by accident....Results are the same. It is all in how you want to do it.
Hello Mike I'm trying to do the same thing to my vw bus and I can't seem to find the whole floor panel just pieces. Can you help me with my search.
Look up klassic fab
Mike Thanks so much for the response. I have two 3M Panel Bonding Adhesive 6.75 oz. I would assume 100% of the bus structural I beams and top hats will get a coat of epoxy for rust protection (top surface only) to protect the beams at the floor high spots and you would apply epoxy to the underside of the floor so it makes contact at all low spots? It does not seem like 13.5 oz. of epoxy would not be enough to fill the voids at the floor high spots. Do I have this somewhat correct? I will also be installing belly pans.
+Tory lessley I used about 1 tube per cargo floor half. I am not sure how many oz they are. Mine is the larger gun. I had some left over. it really goes a long way. The way you are explaining it seems like you are on the right track. Make sure after you install the floors. you paint the underside of the floors with some rust prohibitive coating before you install the belly pans. Moisture can be inside that area snd cause further damage. If you are at the next OCTO. Ask eddy and daves garage Eddy knows me and I can coach you through more of the processes. Check out my new vid on another channel
th-cam.com/video/7dsE-zva8so/w-d-xo.html
Do you work on vs diesels?
i cant seem to find any rust restoration videos on the side window channels. should i find some panels?
+Ricco Sawyer On my next split window bus I will make one. They re tricky. I dont use patch panels. they dont really make one. I have done all mine on the buses I have. I usually cut a 1 1/2 inch strip. Then bend it with a sheet metal bender to replicate the window edge. Tuck it under the existing lip and overlap weld it in. On the curved area I put slits in the window edge so it can be bent. I may post a small video of how to do it.
how do i cut out and replace front cross member in a splitty?
I ususally repair them cut off the outer edges and section it in. Most of the time that is the rusted part. The middle if I were to do it I would cut around the places where the tubes go through and section in to those areas. Notch it out of the new piece. and notch it out the same on the old.
MIke F;
Sounds like you took the lazy way out. Epoxy glues de-catalyze over time(even the best ones)...plus under high-impact loads(both static and dynamic)..the bond of glue to whatever surface is compromised.
It's why Boeing,Airbus,Embraer still use rivets along with epoxy to put their planes together. Using glue-alone, your ductility is very weak. It would have been much wiser to plug/spot weld,etc. that floor in place along with an Epoxy-glue,epoxy primer and a good quality seam sealer.
Todays panel adhesives are far stronger than spot welds even under the conditions you speak of! They are used by every car manufacture even all by itself such as the center of hoods door impact beams, trunk lids!
Just think of fieros, chevy lumina vans! Panels are glued on only! Fenders are bolted! Metal framed fiberglass and plastic panels and if you ever tried just to pull the parts apart youll either destroy the panel or the metal framing thats used to mount the panels! Ive only ever seen the glue fail once ! Due to improper preparation of the panel and attaching metal framing surfaces
this way minimizes rust. When you weld you heat up the area. this attracts rust. even if you use zinc spray it burns off when you weld. There are air gaps in every area and the metal coated with panel adhesive will not rust. The corrugated metal makes a field day for future rust. either way is a very long lasting repair and either way can fail over an indefinite amount of time. but if anything is left in the weather it will fail at some point no matter how you do it.
@@MikefngarageHooptie harbor freight sand/bead blaster would have been way to start with. There is no snake oil in a can that can solve an existing issue. I definitely would not drive/ ride in any vehicle held in place with just glue,no substitute for welds/ rivets as petroleum based products breakdown over time. With a gun,brush or aerosol can,if anti- corrosive measure applied correctly, there are no " rust" issues with welding or rivet application. Have a 40 yr old Peugeot wagon, replace O rings for roof rack and new ceiling speakers, that black epoxy paint and wax applied to roof structure and hollow areas; looks like it did when it left Sochaux assembly plant in France 40 years ago, no rust anywhere; even the spot/mig weld locations.
@@dmcnamara9859 while you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But I will agree with the engineers who made this product. FYI as an alternative to welding. Many of the signs up over your head on large buildings are held together with adhesives. He's adhesives are chemical resistant. Which I don't know why that would matter underneath a vehicle like that. They're designed to withstand the elements. Welcome to the new decades.
Hello Mike, Do you have any other videos showing how you use the panel adhesive? I am getting ready to install new Wolfsberg West cargo floor in my 1962 Bus.
Thanks, Tory
+Tory lessley Not yet. Definately use it on those floors. the one to get is 3m. one tube should do it. But I would have 2 just in case. It is expensive but worth it. Stronger than welding on the floors by far... comes out so clean. Just watch the videos on this a few times. You will get it. Sorry for the pauses. I am not a good vid person just a good body man
+Mike Farnham one more thing. Installing the floors is fairly easy it is repairing the lower bulkhead that is difficult. you will see when you get the floors out. Use a panel cutter on a day when your neighbors are not around inside somewhere. very loud....
+Tory lessley I just uploaded part 2
th-cam.com/video/cLbof7KUOnU/w-d-xo.html
Nice video..let me ask you this..have you ever had to use a rotisserie to repair rust on any of your projects? I have a 78 westy and the guy I have working on it swears he needs one due to the amount of rust on the floor. Does that sound right? Sorry I have no clue and I just want to make sure I am not getting taken for a “ride” with regards to $$$?
well that depends on the guy doing the work and the quality of the work you are expecting. I can set a set of floors in with no lift or rotisserie. But some guys want to weld stuff downward because it is easier or they are trying to do a show quality job. Some guys want to sand blast everything then weld in stuff for cleaner more perfect work. I dont do that kind of restoration I just do a daily driver quality job. not original perfect butt welded panels. You can do a good job by just using rust converter, not sand blasting and overlap welding for the daily driver job. If that is what you want you should find a different guy. if you want a flawless restoration go with the rotisserie.
FYI the minute you decide to go with the Rotisserie on a split window van. I would plan on spending up to 60k on getting it restored. paint and body. The best guys around are shawn in Hesparia CA. There is also a shawn in Vancouver island Canada and Morrie Hotzen in Oregon. Most charge flat by the hour and that is what most guys end up paying in the long run at 85 an hour.
Thank you for the help...I am def not looking for a show stopper just want my westy to look and go nice so that I can go camping with the fam. Thanks again for the help and keep the vids coming!
The result is amazing
thanks that is what I like about doing it this way
"Properly" does not include chiseling the spot welds. Drilling out the spots out and lifting the panel out without hammers is proper. Chiseling the spots twists and deforms the material and will never be straight again, making installing a new panel multitudes harder.
you are not bending those supports.......Only the top hats and not much at that. Sometimes when you drill you drill too deep and deform the metal or drill all the way through by accident....Results are the same. It is all in how you want to do it.