It's meant to work with a drill press or milling machine, so once the work piece was clamped down you could move it in relation to the tool, cutting grooves with and end mill or driling multiple holes along a single axis. Nice job bringing it back to life!
When you do finally find out exactly what this is and how it works, can you please post a demonstration of it in action? It would be great to revisit this and see it working properly.
I just saw the ending, it's a band saw vise. Used to slide cuts into a vertical band saw. The big ones, nothing small. This would bolt on to the table of the saw, and you'd use the wheel to clean cut the parts. It's similar in operation to a Laidlaw JM 20 band saw. You also put the jaw backwards, it's supposed to go on the other side to allow full swing of the carriage-jaw.
Those are good processes, but yeah, not always necessary. I would have "blued" this one tho, to prevent it from rusting again, and at least greased the parts before reassembly.
I would bet that is exactly what it's for. It's made to move the stock according to what size it is in reference to the saws guide. Makes perfect sense to me !
I bet thats exactly! what its meant for, Because it doesn't seem nearly rigged enough to be used accurately on a mill, drill press or lathe. Well maybe used on a drill press, lol But im sure it could be adapted for many useful things.
Most definitely used as a chain clamp for drill press. Also possibly milling machine. Used one exactly like this one in my metal shop class almost 5 decades ago. Worked wonders on the drill press in some instances where we didn't want welds, but holes for bolting together along with other applications where a hole was needed. They worked fantastic.
Didn't you put it together backward? At the beginning of the video the chain handle and the thread wheel are on opposite ends, after the restoration, they are on the same end. There's supposed to be one control in the front and one control in the back. Maybe the purpose becomes clear if you flip the slidey part around? Flipping it around would put the loose end of the chain on the side of the threaded wheel, and if there was some kind of connection point near the wheel, spinning the wheel would push the clamp away and tighten the chain? maybe?
The chain tightens with the over center lever. It's a vice for round stock. Put a piece of pipe in the v block, lock it in place with the chain and machine the pipe by feeding the vice into the cutting too, be it saw or mill cutter.
I think this makes the most sense. I see other people mentioning positional adjustments for use in a power hacksaw but the positioning would be along the wrong axis for something like that.
But to what end? with a fixed vise the tube would always be dead center under the drill press. You would only need to adjust it if you don't want to drill in the center of the tube (but for what reason?). I believe, it's for pipe saddle cutting (which is a more common task) but instead of moving the tool to the vise, you move the vise to the tool.
From the shape / design of the base / cross slide section, I'd guess that's it's designed for use on a mill or like machinery. The bolt-hole placements look like they'd align nicely with a mills T slots.
Great video, I've always loved mechanical things, and have bought old rusty things at garage sales, now I know what to do with them. My husband was a precision tool and die maker and I was always fascinated with his work. He had a Bridgeport Milling machine in the garage, and I became pretty good at deburring. Definitely would be a good idea to take photos of each step when taking it apart so you can see where the pieces all go when you're putting it back together. My husband always had a problem with this step.
Hey Violet, it would be great to have another lady on YT doing restorations as they are few and far between. There are plenty of videos to help you get started and I hope you kept the Bridgeport. He doesn’t need to take photos as he has the video 😂. Cheers Stuart 🇦🇺
Definitely meant for use in a drill press or milling machine so you could line up the round bar or pipe for drilling and cutting features into it. While a lot of milling machines would have that kind of adjustment built into them, most drill presses don't. This vise would be exceptionally convenient if you had to put a lot of holes in pipe and were always struggling to find TDC! One of the key indicators is the fact that the wheel/handle actually extends below the level of the bottom cast iron body. This means that it would have to have sat on the edge of the table or bench. Now, keep that in mind when you look at the distance from the wheel/handle to the center of the V notch when it's in the relative middle of its trackway. That tells you the whole thing couldn't have been meant for use on a very large machine. It also tells you that it wouldn't have been designed with most standard Milling machines since they often have more than enough adjustment built into them. Considering the size of this vise and the fact that the wheel/handle extends below the body, the reasonable conclusion would be that this was designed for small shops to use on their drill presses. The small tables on most of your drill presses are perfectly sized for a vise like this, allowing plenty of room for the handle to sit off the edge of the table. The adjustment in the vise allows you to place your bar or pipe in it, adjust for Top Dead Center, and then drill/tap as needed. It would be very handy in shops that do a lot of gas line work since they're regularly drilling and tapping for gas fittings.
My first thought would be for use in a drill press. You can align the workpiece using the screw. If the vise is bolted down, that theoretically allows you to drill angled holes into pipes or similar. Not sure if it would be good for that in reality, but it's not like everything ever built was a good idea.
I would say a milling machine or drill press type of quick clamp vise for repeated work or a saw type of vise for repeated cuts 🤔....has me wondering as well ....but it is very nice condition ! You never know you may adapt it to something around your shop and find the perfect use for it for you !! Great video as always !!
@@pbysome they use them in pairs because some sections of pipe are long, so you adjust both for straight pipes . They still use them for industrial conduit, gas lines etc. These are for commercially installation. Ducting for air con etc,
@jeanette shackles you should watch the video again, the small lever is for tightening and the wheel just moves the whole thing without tightening anything...
@@pbysome No what they do they have one on either end, and in the middle they have another stand with rollers they place the pipe between them straighten the pipe then they cut threads on both ends and that's a length then they use threaded couplers or elbows etc to install
I've seen them used to test alternators. You clamp the alternator in the vise, and there would be an electric motor mounted on the bench which would run the belt to turn the alternator, to test the alternators output. You would use the vice to tighten the belt up
Well, this restoration can be one of two things. Either it is a failure because you were not able to get it working properly, or you showed us something unique and really cool that 99% of us have never heard of or seen. I think it’s cool.
Beautiful restoration as always! I think it might be used to cut the pipes: maybe instead of having a moving saw they moved the pipe with the help of this vise? Greetings from a compatriot😉
Thank you for your videos. A humble opinion: when you try to tighten it, I believe you must bring that handle all the way down: as you do it, it won't, but you must release a little the chain, and after it might work. Thank you again.
Cool piece. The clamp is put on the feed backwards from the way it was at the beginning before you disassembled it. I don't know which way is correct myself maybe you intended on it that way.
Yay for electrolysis to remove rust! I hook my derusting setup to my stick welder and boost the amperage up until the water looks like it's boiling. Makes quick work of rust any rust hiding under paint.
No idea to its origin function but gonna say Black Beard Projects is in my top three restoration channels along side Hand Tool Rescue and Mien Mechaniker. Love meaty metal fixing...keep on bro...
We had something similar at work. Was part of a cutting machine. You clamped some material on it and fed it to the cutting machine with the hand wheel.
I was about to say the same thing. Its used to hold big Pipes soild poles for bending and drilling. Once poles are bent, this paticuler grip holds the pipe for the drill press. Its been along time since Ive seen one of those. You should keep it for yourself, being you're a Blacksmith
Really enjoy your work! I actually have a “pipe clamp” or chain vice. I don’t understand how yours works either. Mine works the way you describe. Great video.
We used these when pulling well drills apart. There are 3 meter long pipes with a tapered thread in each end and are a bastard to get apart unless you attach a vise similar to this, just bigger with a quadruple chain width, to a hydraulic pump for a few tons of push/pull power.
I've seen a couple of these over the years, but they're always broken, chipped, peckered with apprentice marks or just plain worn to the bone. This is in pristine condition, so cool.
@blackbeardprojects:My guess is that this is one of two necessary chain vise is used for drill press. The motion ability allow to drill center line hole on pipes with different diameter. This is just a guess. Great work Mate!
surprenant, comme toujours. 👍👍 Question : qu'est-ce que « l'acier Wootz » ? les différences avec l'acier Damas ? Sais-tu comment faire ? ------------------------------------------- surprising, as always. 👍👍 Question: what is "Wootz steel"? the differences with Damascus steel? Do you know how to do?
Not sure if you ment to, but to top piece was put on I. The opposite direction than when you took it off. The lever should point away from the wheel, otherwise it may get in the way of the wheel
I can see that this chain vise can be used in pairs each one mounted parallel to each other on a bench. The adjusting wheel extending over the edge. Could be used to hold two sections of pipe, tubing or other similar objects that are to be welded together. The sliding ways allow for lateral alignment. Yes, there are simpler ways but sometimes inventors like to be imaginative and reinvent the wheel.
Excelente video, favor podrías explicar como funciona el electrolito, liquido, polvo y el voltaje, además de cuantas horas debe estar sumergido gracias
鯨丸 said he used to see these til the 1980s at jobsites, to hold down pipes to cut threads on the ends. Also the moving feature was used to bend the pipes for small adjustments.
Is the hand lock just an initial tensioner, and then the other end of the chain is supposed to be anchored to something, so that when you turn the wheel, the chain doesn't move with the carriage; instead the carriage moves against the fixed chain, thus exerting the final tension?
It's meant to work with a drill press or milling machine, so once the work piece was clamped down you could move it in relation to the tool, cutting grooves with and end mill or driling multiple holes along a single axis. Nice job bringing it back to life!
Yes I agree, that was my first thought, Ive got a similar vice I use with my drill press.
The function of the wheel is to position the clamped workpiece. Works perfectly with a mill and drill press.
Maybe to feed the workpiece into a saw.
Chain vice and wrench’s are used mostly on round stock of some kind Like putting splines on a axle
Correct. This is mounted to the table on a drill press or vertical milling machine.
When you do finally find out exactly what this is and how it works, can you please post a demonstration of it in action? It would be great to revisit this and see it working properly.
I just saw the ending, it's a band saw vise. Used to slide cuts into a vertical band saw. The big ones, nothing small. This would bolt on to the table of the saw, and you'd use the wheel to clean cut the parts. It's similar in operation to a Laidlaw JM 20 band saw. You also put the jaw backwards, it's supposed to go on the other side to allow full swing of the carriage-jaw.
Didn't he put it back as he found it ?
@@jonpatchett425 Nope..! It was the other way round...
Yes you're right the jaw is on wrong from the original thumbnail picture. The tensioner handle shouldn't be near the wheel
Omw yes. He actually put it backwards
Pipe vise.
So great to see a vintage tool restoration without sand blasting and/or powder coating. Great work, thank you! 🙏
Those are good processes, but yeah, not always necessary. I would have "blued" this one tho, to prevent it from rusting again, and at least greased the parts before reassembly.
Hello! This is an old version of the pipe chain vise. Nice restore. They can now be lubricated via oil, primed and painted.
The old pipe chain vise had the capability of back and forth lateral movement like this tool ?????
You can trust Screws And Tools! He knows what he is doing. Check out his channel!! ☠️
It looks perfect to use when bandsawing round stock. Mount the vice on the bandsaw table, quick cam clamp a work piece in and feed it via the slide.
I would bet that is exactly what it's for. It's made to move the stock according to what size it is in reference to the saws guide. Makes perfect sense to me !
I bet thats exactly! what its meant for, Because it doesn't seem nearly rigged enough to be used accurately on a mill, drill press or lathe. Well maybe used on a drill press, lol But im sure it could be adapted for many useful things.
Most definitely used as a chain clamp for drill press. Also possibly milling machine. Used one exactly like this one in my metal shop class almost 5 decades ago. Worked wonders on the drill press in some instances where we didn't want welds, but holes for bolting together along with other applications where a hole was needed. They worked fantastic.
Didn't you put it together backward? At the beginning of the video the chain handle and the thread wheel are on opposite ends, after the restoration, they are on the same end. There's supposed to be one control in the front and one control in the back. Maybe the purpose becomes clear if you flip the slidey part around?
Flipping it around would put the loose end of the chain on the side of the threaded wheel, and if there was some kind of connection point near the wheel, spinning the wheel would push the clamp away and tighten the chain? maybe?
Yes, he put it backward. But that won't make any difference.
The chain tightens with the over center lever. It's a vice for round stock. Put a piece of pipe in the v block, lock it in place with the chain and machine the pipe by feeding the vice into the cutting too, be it saw or mill cutter.
It probably is a drill press vise for tubes and bars. With the wheel you can adjust the bar in relation to the drill coming from above.
I think this makes the most sense. I see other people mentioning positional adjustments for use in a power hacksaw but the positioning would be along the wrong axis for something like that.
Makes sense. Good call!
Agreed!
But to what end? with a fixed vise the tube would always be dead center under the drill press. You would only need to adjust it if you don't want to drill in the center of the tube (but for what reason?). I believe, it's for pipe saddle cutting (which is a more common task) but instead of moving the tool to the vise, you move the vise to the tool.
@@mementomori4972 With a fixed vice, it would only be dead center for one diameter of tubing?
From the shape / design of the base / cross slide section, I'd guess that's it's designed for use on a mill or like machinery. The bolt-hole placements look like they'd align nicely with a mills T slots.
Nope, both clamping force and rigidity are laughable, it's impossible to use on a mill. Maaaaybe you could feed something into bandsaw with this.
Great video, I've always loved mechanical things, and have bought old rusty things at garage sales, now I know what to do with them. My husband was a precision tool and die maker and I was always fascinated with his work. He had a Bridgeport Milling machine in the garage, and I became pretty good at deburring. Definitely would be a good idea to take photos of each step when taking it apart so you can see where the pieces all go when you're putting it back together. My husband always had a problem with this step.
Hey Violet, it would be great to have another lady on YT doing restorations as they are few and far between. There are plenty of videos to help you get started and I hope you kept the Bridgeport. He doesn’t need to take photos as he has the video 😂. Cheers Stuart 🇦🇺
It's a pipe vise for cutting and tapping and cutting threads. Used one for years. The one I have is marked 1910, Pittsburgh PA. Nice video as always.
これ、配管作業の現場でねじ切りをする時にパイプを抑える役目で使います。
1980年代ぐらいまでは結構目にしましたが、最近は見かけなくなりましたね。
前後（左右？？）に動く機能はどうゆう風に使われていたんですか？
What was the front-back (left-right??) movement used for?
配管を故意に少し曲げたい時に斜めにネジを切ります。
その時の調整で役立っていましたよ。
ただ現場では同じバイスを二個使いパイプの前後を固定していました。
@@鯨丸 なるほど ありがとうございました。
鉄工所ではパイプに横穴を開ける際に使っていましたね。
ボール盤はドリルが固定なのでパイプの方を動かすのですが、センターからずらして加工する際はパイプが回って逃げてしまうので…
Hello from Kyrgyzystan🇰🇬🇰🇬🇰🇬🇰🇬
Definitely meant for use in a drill press or milling machine so you could line up the round bar or pipe for drilling and cutting features into it. While a lot of milling machines would have that kind of adjustment built into them, most drill presses don't. This vise would be exceptionally convenient if you had to put a lot of holes in pipe and were always struggling to find TDC!
One of the key indicators is the fact that the wheel/handle actually extends below the level of the bottom cast iron body. This means that it would have to have sat on the edge of the table or bench. Now, keep that in mind when you look at the distance from the wheel/handle to the center of the V notch when it's in the relative middle of its trackway. That tells you the whole thing couldn't have been meant for use on a very large machine. It also tells you that it wouldn't have been designed with most standard Milling machines since they often have more than enough adjustment built into them. Considering the size of this vise and the fact that the wheel/handle extends below the body, the reasonable conclusion would be that this was designed for small shops to use on their drill presses. The small tables on most of your drill presses are perfectly sized for a vise like this, allowing plenty of room for the handle to sit off the edge of the table. The adjustment in the vise allows you to place your bar or pipe in it, adjust for Top Dead Center, and then drill/tap as needed. It would be very handy in shops that do a lot of gas line work since they're regularly drilling and tapping for gas fittings.
My first thought was for holding pipe as well.
It doesnt appear rigged enough for milling purposes.
My first thought would be for use in a drill press. You can align the workpiece using the screw. If the vise is bolted down, that theoretically allows you to drill angled holes into pipes or similar. Not sure if it would be good for that in reality, but it's not like everything ever built was a good idea.
I was thinking a milling machine, but otherwise, yeah.
The wheel must be at the other side attached with chain .. Hi from Algeria ..
See 0:07 and 8:10 to know the difference
We have one in our shop at work, but bigger. We use it all the time for rebuilding down the hole hammers for rock drills. An indispensable tool.
Maybe a vise off of a saw. Clamp down your workpiece with the chain and then use the screw to feed the workpiece into the blade.
It's definitely some kind of mechanism that holds something but what I don't know I love things like this interests me
I would say a milling machine or drill press type of quick clamp vise for repeated work or a saw type of vise for repeated cuts 🤔....has me wondering as well ....but it is very nice condition ! You never know you may adapt it to something around your shop and find the perfect use for it for you !! Great video as always !!
Really good video,possibly plumbers vise in older days when cutting steel or cast plumbing pipes.keep doing what your doing and carry on 😎😎😎👍👍👍
It's a plumbers pipe clamp, used for cutting threads on steel pipes
That was my exact thought as well. Have used modern versions.
I don't think it has enough clamping force for thread cutting, and the horizontal movement also makes no sense for thread cutting.
@@pbysome they use them in pairs because some sections of pipe are long, so you adjust both for straight pipes . They still use them for industrial conduit, gas lines etc. These are for commercially installation. Ducting for air con etc,
@jeanette shackles you should watch the video again, the small lever is for tightening and the wheel just moves the whole thing without tightening anything...
@@pbysome No what they do they have one on either end, and in the middle they have another stand with rollers they place the pipe between them straighten the pipe then they cut threads on both ends and that's a length then they use threaded couplers or elbows etc to install
I'm glad u said something at the end because I was wondering what real applications it would be best for and I I couldn't really think of much
I love how you didn't paint it or fix the dents & scratches on it. You just cleaned it up.
I wish you c ould explain the cleaning process, the solution you used and such. nice job
I've seen them used to test alternators. You clamp the alternator in the vise, and there would be an electric motor mounted on the bench which would run the belt to turn the alternator, to test the alternators output. You would use the vice to tighten the belt up
Looks like a pipe clamp for threading iron for gas
ding ding, i have a small version of this
that's exactly what it is
Super chain vive. Ur lucky to get it. Thanks for show.
Well, this restoration can be one of two things. Either it is a failure because you were not able to get it working properly, or you showed us something unique and really cool that 99% of us have never heard of or seen. I think it’s cool.
Hello dear, I watch all the videos, you are just a good master, I respect you Salam from Tajikistan
Man I love a good restoration!
that little plastick holder inside the sonic cleaner , what a way to safe solvent usage. thank you
ممتاز واشكرك عمل قوي وجميييييييييييييل 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍اتابعك من السعودية
Beautiful restoration as always! I think it might be used to cut the pipes: maybe instead of having a moving saw they moved the pipe with the help of this vise? Greetings from a compatriot😉
It's a pipe clamp for threading iron I think. Looks a lot like the setup on the ridgid pipe threader I used to use
There's a V in the vice & the chain is used so it will go round any diameter tube. Looking at it I'd say you were right.
Ура! Заждался уже. Посмотрю сегодня перед сном с сыном.
Wasn't the lever on the other side ? Opposite the wheel when you started?
Thank you for your videos. A humble opinion: when you try to tighten it, I believe you must bring that handle all the way down: as you do it, it won't, but you must release a little the chain, and after it might work. Thank you again.
very good
Cool piece. The clamp is put on the feed backwards from the way it was at the beginning before you disassembled it. I don't know which way is correct myself maybe you intended on it that way.
I always enjoy your offerings.
Yay for electrolysis to remove rust! I hook my derusting setup to my stick welder and boost the amperage up until the water looks like it's boiling. Makes quick work of rust any rust hiding under paint.
but you throw in something too?
@@willemh3319 Sure do - washing soda. Also known as Calcium Carbonate.
Felicito al que fabricó está herramienta una reliquia,
No idea to its origin function but gonna say Black Beard Projects is in my top three restoration channels along side Hand Tool Rescue and Mien Mechaniker. Love meaty metal fixing...keep on bro...
We had something similar at work. Was part of a cutting machine. You clamped some material on it and fed it to the cutting machine with the hand wheel.
I was about to say the same thing. Its used to hold big Pipes soild poles for bending and drilling. Once poles are bent, this paticuler grip holds the pipe for the drill press. Its been along time since Ive seen one of those. You should keep it for yourself, being you're a Blacksmith
wow ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
May the God give you the strength
Fantastic content. I really enjoy your videos. From South Africa
There is a tool for everything apparently. And it's so cool that some people in the comments actually know what it's for.
Really enjoy your work! I actually have a “pipe clamp” or chain vice. I don’t understand how yours works either. Mine works the way you describe. Great video.
Only thing I can imagine is aligning a workpiece under a drill press. Otherwise nice restoration, but no oil or grease anywhere?
That was my first thought, no oil?
...good one, looks great, stay well..
We used these when pulling well drills apart. There are 3 meter long pipes with a tapered thread in each end and are a bastard to get apart unless you attach a vise similar to this, just bigger with a quadruple chain width, to a hydraulic pump for a few tons of push/pull power.
I've seen a couple of these over the years, but they're always broken, chipped, peckered with apprentice marks or just plain worn to the bone. This is in pristine condition, so cool.
"Apprentice marks" Lol!
@blackbeardprojects:My guess is that this is one of two necessary chain vise is used for drill press. The motion ability allow to drill center line hole on pipes with different diameter. This is just a guess. Great work Mate!
Good job. Good tool.
Finally a good video
Have a nice day guys👍❤️
beautiful metal ☺️😍
Muy bueno el vídeo 👍☺🙆❤😀🙋🇦🇷
I loved the Micky Mouse sound effects
Really Amazing Brother. Enjoyed alot. Hope You Also Enjoy During Restoring It.
What an interesting vice grip with a clever design. Simple and sweet restoration. Love it, subscribed!
The V-groove and the chain means it's for clamping tubes and pipes. My guess it's a vise jig for tube threading/drilling/machining
Fantastic👍
Hi buddy, I loved this restoration, you did a good job. 👏👏👍👍👍👍🤝
surprenant, comme toujours. 👍👍
Question : qu'est-ce que « l'acier Wootz » ? les différences avec l'acier Damas ?
Sais-tu comment faire ?
-------------------------------------------
surprising, as always. 👍👍
Question: what is "Wootz steel"? the differences with Damascus steel?
Do you know how to do?
What a nice video my man. I liked seeing you talking at the end!
Nice result 👍
Very cool vise B.B.. Never seen one like that before.. Put it in a glass case to look at...
Used for holding pipe for threading, or welding. Have two in my pipe shop.
Io che che funziona proprio cosi come hai dimostrato. In ogni caso bravo!
I don't know but was great restoration thank you two thumbs
What ever it was used for it turned out nice.
Popular with pipe fitters this vice.
Even though I have no idea it's application. Great video.
It's for a metal Mill. Cool Video!
Search with the patent number, in the old Italian databases? Beautiful object restored in solid black iron!
Not sure if you ment to, but to top piece was put on I. The opposite direction than when you took it off. The lever should point away from the wheel, otherwise it may get in the way of the wheel
Had one very similar to it power bandsaw clamp. It doesn't bave to hold super tight as most of the force is vertical.
Bravo barba! Bel lavoro 😉
It still works practically! 😄
I can see that this chain vise can be used in pairs each one mounted parallel to each other on a bench. The adjusting wheel extending over the edge. Could be used to hold two sections of pipe, tubing or other similar objects that are to be welded together. The sliding ways allow for lateral alignment. Yes, there are simpler ways but sometimes inventors like to be imaginative and reinvent the wheel.
Es un placer verlo trabajar, saludos desde Argentina
Nice job 👍 that turned out great.
Excelente video, favor podrías explicar como funciona el electrolito, liquido, polvo y el voltaje, además de cuantas horas debe estar sumergido gracias
When you said you don’t understand the vice. I was thinking the same thing. Throughout the video.
I didn't understand too... But was very good job.
My grandfather was a pipefitter and he had a vise exactly like that to hold large pipes for cutting and threading.
I have no clue, but a very nice clip. Thank you.
Its a pipe vice. It desigmed to hold steel pipe when you eant to cut or to thread it. I have 2 in my workshop
hola exclente video está Genial muy bueno 🤜🤛👍👏
woow excellent work and restorations greetings from Argentina
Nice work 👍👍🔥👍
鯨丸 said he used to see these til the 1980s at jobsites, to hold down pipes to cut threads on the ends. Also the moving feature was used to bend the pipes for small adjustments.
I have no ideea what should do this vise,but you did a great job anyway !!!
Hello there what a nice tool!! this is like the Vulcan No 1 chain vise.👍🇺🇸
I admire your craftsmanship and humiliation (not necessarily in that order)
Is the hand lock just an initial tensioner, and then the other end of the chain is supposed to be anchored to something, so that when you turn the wheel, the chain doesn't move with the carriage; instead the carriage moves against the fixed chain, thus exerting the final tension?
Im gonna say it was used to hold bigger material on a mill. The wheel could be to give additional movement besides what the mill table can do?