Is Equalization a Myth on Highline Anchors??? 2 guys + 5 dynomometers + 13 anchors!!!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ธ.ค. 2024
- Andy Lewis and I play with 5 dynomometers all afternoon to see if 13 different anchor set ups would equalize. Nerd out on these results!
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I've been a climber for 30 years, and this is probably the most useful video I've ever seen about equalizing and anchors. And I'm so glad that I'm still alive, thinking back to the hundreds of anchors I've trusted in the past. Wow. Thanks!
This was the most useful video in the series. Completely changes thinking on the topic of equalization. Outstanding work.
I wish there was a way to make a static rope that changes color based on tension. How sick would that be! would be super easy to visually check equalization.
Mathias Kolle at MIT has developed color-changing fibers. “Currently, the fibers are costly, mostly because of the labor that goes into making them,” Kolle says. “The materials themselves are not worth much. If we could reel out kilometers of these fibers with relatively little work, then they would be dirt cheap.”
I love videos that focus on the basics. You learn heaps.
When I think about multiple anchor points, my main concern is that each anchor is capable of holding the entire load safely. Two or three weak anchors do not equal one good one. I am not too worried whether each anchor carries an equal load. Sharing the load with multiple anchors is of course a great idea and way to reduce stress on your gear, but every anchor must be able to stand on its own or the system is weak (in my opinion.).
Awesome video for those of us that don't have 4 dynos :) thanks.
So good I watched it twice. Lol.
A test that could be interesting to do is start with 4 anchors, put tension, check which one has the biggest tension, then remove tension and detach this more tensioned line from the anchor to simulate a failure. Put tension back and check what happens with the other lines.
Wonderful video! You and your crew are doing an amazing job for the entyre community!
One question: does a dynamic rope help to distribute the load on each single bolt?
Assuming that the friction is the same, does the elasticity "equalize" better?
Please private message me on facebook. I received your soft shackle to break test. :)
Absolutely astonishing!
This is a great demonstration of how something that works in theory doesn’t necessarily work in the real world.
I would add that Andy’s theory of closest bolt to the central anchor having the most force on it doesn’t really make any sense, and going about trying to “prove it” essentially ruins the scientific method.
Also, you’re thinking about directional relativity wrong, as with regards to equalisation, it shouldn’t really matter (I think). It would be really awesome to re run this test with pulleys on all the friction points to get some real equalisation going, as I could be completely wrong.
It could also be interesting to see this test run with dynamic rope, as that may also solve some of the equalisation problems (maybe).
Chas Sheppard we are going to add a bunch of bolts to andy's patio this fall when im out there for ggby and retest different bolt patterns and different ropes. I dont like theoretical anything so we are breaking literally everything in the SlackSnap episodes :)
I fully agree. The video is an awesome demonstration but the conclusions would've required some more thought. Main takeaway for me is how quickly friction ruins equalization. The dyneema slings showed the best equalization because they are the most slippery and also thinner, therefore not crowding the shackles.
Andy's theory is likely from experience and in a system with friction actually does make sense, since the bolt closest to the central anchor point has the least amount of whatever material you're using to stretch. There would be a lot of variance but on average I'd expect the hypothesis to hold up.
It does make sense, because the ropes stretch. If both ropes initially have the same force, the inline rope will stretch 1mm and the outer ropes will stretch 1mm. But the outer ropes are at an angle, so the 1mm stretch in those ropes allows them to change the angle too. The angle change with the stretch is what gives them more than 1mm in effective elongation, thus lowering the force.
The important thing is that the rope is static, which means, high change in load makes a small difference in elongation. Crucially, the reverse is also true: small difference in elongation makes a high change in load. It's that extra effective elongation due to the angle of the outer ropes that gives them the extra slack.
Would a Riggingplatte (like the CT Cheese S Riggingplatte) used as masterpoint reduce the friction?
This was an awesome video! Loved all the breakdowns of everything. Very informational.
It looked like using dyneema slings was the easiest to be equalized. I would be interested to see a master point configuration using a rigging plate as well to reduce the friction of the dyneema slings all together on one shackle.
Thanks! It would reduce friction but at the same time I think having any strands cross over each other creates friction, even if the rigging plate hole gave a larger surface area. I am definitely am rethinking how I rig lines. Climbing slings are exactly the answer but V to V to V is really well equalized, maybe I can do something with Amsteel...
HowNOTtoHIGHLINE I guess my thought was to use the rigging plate with the "fingers" towards the bolts side. Using the larger hole as the actual master point. This way each strand from the bolts is separate and never had to cross over another.
Just from a climbing background all this type of info is awesome to nerd out about. Thanks again!
the strand going from furthest outside bolt to furthest outside bolt will cross over the other strands but I suppose if you use the finger side and it had it's own hole, then maybe it would have less friction. Friction isn't a super big deal breaker since highlines are always moving around, directional relativity is, so a perfectly "equalized" 4 point sliding x will always NOT be equalized even if you greased it up (which of course will probably get you killed to put oils on your slings but hypothetically speaking haha).
HowNOTtoHIGHLINE maybe this has already been considered... But what happens if you put a bearing, or sheves, or hangover, in the system at the point where friction was the greatest? (the master point) or in the case of the V, have two bearings, or pullys so the lines could slip (equalize) more evenly.
Agree it won't always be equalized (due to moving around) but, as you say, redundancy is more important that equalization. Equalization seems (to me, a non-highliner) to be an effort to make sure that the redundant pieces are at least attempting to share the load. The point being to try and avoid a situation where one bolt ends up taking 100% of the load an any given time, even with movement. If you are equalized with say 25% 25% 35% and 15% in four legs, each one has a long way to go before it would be holding 100% of the load. And I assume the goal would be to start with four anchor points that could each hold greater than 100% of the load (maybe 5x the load at each point/bolt before breaking/pulling out?). I really liked the part where you demonstrated that lower angles are better (geometry). thanks!
Probably my favorite so far. Huge eye opener and myth buster!
Myth busters! Now there is a theme I could use! ;)
you'll need glasses, a sick mustache and a sweet hat...
Just had an interesting idea - could you use an anchor plate to lower friction at the sliding X master point?
(using each hole for a single strand of the sliding X) this could drastically reduce the friction caused from overlapping !
forces depend on angles, because they are vectors and are added geometrically.
the distance to the load does not change the force, assuming a rigid connection medium and equal angles.
if you were to connect 4 bolts in line in some way that would produce a pulley system, things might change, though.
i would a agree that friction limits equalization significantly.
Would love to see how reliably your 4-bolt, cascaded sliding-X configuration equalizes if:
1. use 18mm nylon instead of dyneema. more or less friction? high-stretch improve equalization?
2. instead of passing your paired slings through both paired carabiners, use two separate slings to two separate biners. Would the friction-induced variability be higher due to the lower bend radius, or friction between adjacent slings, or lower due to eliminating friction between stacked slings?
3. bring it up to 6Kn, then kick it, rather than the other way around.
This does show that the load is shared between the bolts, though, even if it's not shared exactly equally.
thank you! I'm hearing so many people say that since it's not a perfect 50/50 or 25/25/25/25 split, that equalization doesn't exist and you shouldn't care about it (they even say as much in the video). Even if it's not perfect, multiple pieces still distribute the load among each other.
I agree. Because you also have no reason to think all the protection in the anchor is equally strong.
Look up a "wippletree". That's the name for your 4->2->1 anchor and explains why that was the most even loading.
Just a couple guys getting knotty in the back yard on camera.
Hahha but seriously great video! This is easily one of the best videos on highline rigging concepts I've seen. So much smoke and mirrors/superstition/hearsay when it comes to rigging off bolts and equalizing anchors. Thanks for taking the time to test so many different configurations and get some real numbers. Myth busters + Bill Nye... you guys should have a tv show...
I was getting knotty! I hesitated buying a dyno but then I stopped being cheap and I'm so happy I have this thing to do things like this. It's going to be in a lot more videos. I have a whipper video with it coming soon.
What about sheathing your static rope to cut down on friction on the rope and this would potentially increase movement of the rope(within the sheath) to allow the anchor to equilize.
How does a two point quad or a two point magic x stack up in terms of equalization ? Especially if the load direction changes?
Also, I would be SUPER curious how DMM revolvers or another equivalent would help.
Unfortunately Revolvers make no diffference compared to biners. They only reduce friction under very low loads. I checked with DMM.
@@johnliungman1333 I really wonder. I feel like it could be “eh, 20% is close enough” but, with a mankey nut placement in choss it might be a really good or really bad idea.
Hello! thanks for the video, its great!!!. can you write the name of the dynamometers? and where can i find them???? thanks
www.balancecommunity.com/accessories/dynamometers/
or
www.linegrip.com/shop/linescale-2-pre-order/
these ones are half the price but don't have swivel
engineer here, you need low friction pullies to properly equalize.
Any chance the tree was moving? After kicking the master point, the total load on the system dropped off, sometimes in half. I wondered if that was because the tree was moving. And I wonder whether such a significant reduction in system tension was impacting the results/conclusion/direction of investigation.
Tree might move but everything is adjusting when you kick an anchor haha, and such a short line loses tension quickly if anything shifts. The point is the same regardless, the bolts were not equally holding the load.
You use soft shackles with spansets in the Sliding-X which makes it almost impossible to slide and equalize because of the friction. So at least the tests rigged like this are not accurat.
Don't worry; I won't highline (or jump either). Interesting video though. For me, the take aways are for rock/ice climbing and mountaineering and will help me build good anchors in dodgy situations.
probably a dumb idea. would pulleys improve the equalisation ?
Fuck, not sure what to do now lol.
Nice job! Arm yourselves with knowledge and stay alive :-)
So does Andy always come prepared with approach shoes? At least he's wearing socks.
Poor tree!
Um, could you explain that all again, lol? Actually since I don’t highline, all I need to do is figure how it all relates to climbing anchors.... ❔❔❔