The only ones using “happy holidays” in any significant way are corporations who want to appeal to as many customers as possible. This is a phenomenon of capitalism, and not persecution.
Yes, Mr. Rauser, as a non-believer, I say and accept Christmas greetings solely due to the secular nature of the holiday. Then and again, I don't participate in it either, other than the greeting, because it has become just a transactional property exchange. Gifts to me, are to be given without any expectation of receiving anything in return and this isn't how my experience has been most of my life.
I am glad to hear Merry Christmas. Some people knowing me as a Baptist (or ex-Baptist) they sometimes post to me "Happy Jesus Birthday" (in Romanian we have no specific word like this, like in Spanish "Feliz Navidad". But what gets a bit under my skin is of Christians knowing that I am an Atheist and they continue with wishes like: "I hope in this times the Holy Ghost/Jesus to enlighten you to go back to the righteous path". I turned the favour wishing something like: "As we today we celebrate the birth of Truth, God help us to not be lied in the Church and to be always forcing the truth no matter how inconvenient it is, so pastors should stop saying to us convenient lies, and we should follow suit". I just got as a response that the "holiday is about love", meaning of that Truth died with Jesus, it is just about self righteous proclamation to others that "they need to go on the right path".
Even as a hardcore atheist, I find people who are offended by “Merry Xmas” to be cringe, and ridiculous. To me, it’s a cultural holiday, and something I enjoy.
Even when I say "Merry Christmas" to people at church.... I'm referring to the cultural/secular parts. As in, "have a good time with your family and friends", "enjoy the foods and traditions you enjoy", etc.
In the country I come from Christmas is a two day holiday. Christmas itself and the day after Boxing day. Australia is a much less religious country than the United States. Saying merry Christmas is seen more as a pleasantry. I used to work in a diverse workplace There were some orthodox Jews and practicing Muslims. In the context of the history of the oppression of these religions it was normal to speak a little more guardedly as one did not want to raise issues from the past
Although there are distinctions between "secular Christmas" and "religiously Christian Christmas," the fact does remain that "secular Christmas" - even with all its Santa and elves and candy canes and whatnot - is a direct offspring of "religious Christmas." There are numerous people of non-Christian religions who purposefully don't celebrate Christmas (even the secularized aspects) because of its origins in Christianity, and the hair-splitting between "religious Christmas" and "secular Christmas" doesn't make any difference from their point of view (and there isn't always a clear distinction anyway). A lot of people from culturally Christian backgrounds (religiously Christian and secular alike) assume a kind of general "secular Christmas" as a broader default, but, even though there really is such as thing as "secular Christmas," this is still often viewed as especially presumptive for people who do not come from Christian backgrounds and who purposefully do not celebrate the holiday due to its religious origins. Even if the speaker doesn't assume all Christmas-celebrators are religious, there is an explicit assumption that everyone (even non-Christians) celeberate Christmas, which is not true. (In other words, even in a secular sense, it would be a bit akin to wishing the whole world a happy Canada Day despite not everyone being Canadian. Nevertheless, even a secularized Christmas is still entertwined with religion, so there is always at least an implicit assumption being made about a person's religion or, at the very least, religio-cultural background.) So I really do understand why some people are troubled by a presumption of a secular Christmas. All this being said, speaking strictly for myself, I personally find it difficult to imagine taking offense to a person genuinely wishing me well for a holiday, whether I celebrate it or not. (Although, as Randal points out, weaponized fake "well-wishes" designed to provoke are certainly a distasteful exception.) But just because I'd be fine with someone of any religion wishing me well on a particular day, I don't want to assume everyone else would be equally receptive.
I pretty much agree here, although I low-key think it's a little immature to take offense when you live in a place where the Christmas aesthetic is everywhere.
@@alexh2790 I can certainly understand that. In a culturally Christian area, it isn't outrageouos to see a culturally Christian holiday as a kind of default (even if if not everyone celebrates it), just as it would be understandable for someone in Toronto to use "Happy Canada Day" as a greeting (even if non-Canadians may also be present). I want to give folks the benefit of the doubt, especially if a holiday is particularly popular in that locale, but I can also understand how people might be sensitive when religion is concerned, since even the secular features of Christmas are intertwined with their religious origins and praticing Christians often enjoy the secular aspects. People from non-Christian backgrounds might not be aware of, or interested in, defining the line between the secular and Christian elements of the holiday. Someone familiar with the nativity will know that it has nothing to do with decorated trees and toy-making elves, but someone from a non-Christian background shouldn't be assumed to have an insider knowledge of these particulars when it all gets lumped into something both religious and secular people call "Christmas." But yeah, personally I'd much rather not respond in indignation to someone who just wants to give a heartfelt greeting.
I have observed the opposite. Many non-Christians celebrate the secular Christmas. I have many Sikh, Muslim, and Hindu friends who celebrate Christmas. Plus, I'm atheist, and I still celebrate. Christians stole Christmas from various pagan beliefs, so I have no problem stealing it back.
@@pcoleman1971 I have observed both. Plenty of non-Christians, including those of other religions and no religion, who celebrate Christmas often very joyously, but I have also very much observed those who very purposefully do not who specifically cite the religious nature of the holiday for their reason. It's not an either/or situation. It's a big world, and different people approach the idea of Christmas differently. And while there is mixing between Christian and pagan traditions over the years (though obviously the general idea to celebrate the birth of Jesus was certainly Christian), that's still, from the point of view of someone from a non-Christian (and non-pagan) background, a similar hair-splitting as between Christian and secular (Christian-pagan-secular if you want). For some people with cultural background that involved persecution by Christianity, it can be hard to separate that out from Christmas. For others, even from similar backgrounds, it isn't difficult at all to make a distinction. That's my main point. at any rate, I hope your Christmas was a good one this year!
I agree to some extent that we should be careful about presumptions. At the same time, a society in which we attempt to avoid presuming anything about anyone else seems like a cold and alienating place to live.
I, a religious Jew, went for a walk yesterday and two different people along the way wished me Merry Christmas. Not wanting to stop and explain that I'm Jewish, I just smiled and waved both times. It is a bit awkward because even if it's meant in a more secular way (which is never clear) , it still is Christian-it's right there in the name 😊 However, I was not offended. When I picked up a To Go food order at a restaurant the night before, and was also wished a Merry Christmas there by a server I've seen many times before, I explained that I'm a "Chanukah guy," and we gave each other the appropriate greeting.
I think if one lived in another land, especially if not by choice, and the dominant religion regularly preached you were condemned to hell, and if you failed to convert to their religion, ostracized you at best. If everyone wished you a happy holiday of their religion, one you believed pagan, and expected you to joyously respond, you might see the discomfort. Sad. Most non-Christians I have met are not offended, and just say "Merry Christmas" back, which is what I hope I would do in another land. Live and let live.
As an Atheist who lives in Germany I don’t understand the problem, I wish everyone a Merry Christmas despite knowing that the vast majority of those people are also Atheists. This might sound strange, but I never really associated Christmas with Christianity. It’s just another holiday, just tradition.
If you want to find something to be offended by, you will. Ok, Julia. Have a shi**y winter solstice then. I really don't care. Get over yourself. Probably half of the people wishing you Merry Christmas aren't Christian either. I find its better for my mental health to accept greetings in the spirit in which they are offered.
Sometimes, Christians are obnoxious during this time. The Catholics put up a sign saying that Christmas belongs to them. There's also a bit of selfish egotistical mentality that can rub people the wrong way. That greeting is not always meant sincerely. Let's not pretend that Christians don't go out of their way to get offended which is why they loathe the idea of "Happy Holidays" or "winter solstice" or whatever. In addition, why does anybody have to accept such an empty platitude? It's not like Christians mean it. Look around the world and you see the reality is that Christians are a curse on the world rather than any blessing. There are not enough hospitals or schools or whatever to make up for their nonsense and sin against all of us. If anything, this holiday is a cheap worthless consumerist shopping day masquerading as some special day. It's not us strangers who destroyed Christmas. It's the Christians. Christians are the worst part of Christmas. And the bitterness of your comment proves it. Is this what your witness is.. right after Christmas and the so-called love? Take a hard look at what you wrote. It's meanspirited. Check yourself.
This is why I would argue you are a liberal. This is just transparently interethnic/intercultural tension and you are playing the role of neutral mediator where the goal is a sort of passive coexistence of equals. That is liberal. The non liberal take would be it is okay to assert the dominance of Christian culture.
I think that Rauser just pointed out the difference in the meaning of the words. Christian culture may be dominant or not, the double meaning of the same Christmas can give comfort for people that it was not about getting offensive
@@thomasseichter5670 I have seen great hostility from atheists if you have faith in God in some social circles, I surely do not have such a thing towards atheists for I was one, it was a part of my life.
@@aaronmichaels807 there are a lot of very insulting and offensive things Christians say. I personally don't think "merry christmas" is one of those things.
@@aaronmichaels807 As an Atheist I have never seen anyone complain about "Merry Christmas“. This seems to be one of those Twitter phenomenons where activists try to virtue signal to other ideologues.
Atheist here: I have absolutely no thing to day on Christmas. More awkward is when a Christian on Easter says "Jesus has risen" when you should answer "True has risen". But wishing "Happy Easter Holidays with your family" is also plain and fine with me.
Are you actually offended by the fact that they are offended, or that they are expressing that they are offended. What does Jesus have to say about how you should respond to things that offend you?
@ No I’m not actually offended. When I say I’m actually offended. All I was doing was lying…down on a bed of offense that i made for myself. Oh no, now I’m a liar too. Whatever shall I do. Look here buddy boy. I have the right to be offended without you attempting to smuggle in what you think is the proper interpretation of what Jesus might have said 2,000 years ago. Be real and be a man. I must say, I hate your comment.
The only ones using “happy holidays” in any significant way are corporations who want to appeal to as many customers as possible. This is a phenomenon of capitalism, and not persecution.
Yes, Mr. Rauser, as a non-believer, I say and accept Christmas greetings solely due to the secular nature of the holiday. Then and again, I don't participate in it either, other than the greeting, because it has become just a transactional property exchange.
Gifts to me, are to be given without any expectation of receiving anything in return and this isn't how my experience has been most of my life.
I am glad to hear Merry Christmas. Some people knowing me as a Baptist (or ex-Baptist) they sometimes post to me "Happy Jesus Birthday" (in Romanian we have no specific word like this, like in Spanish "Feliz Navidad".
But what gets a bit under my skin is of Christians knowing that I am an Atheist and they continue with wishes like: "I hope in this times the Holy Ghost/Jesus to enlighten you to go back to the righteous path".
I turned the favour wishing something like: "As we today we celebrate the birth of Truth, God help us to not be lied in the Church and to be always forcing the truth no matter how inconvenient it is, so pastors should stop saying to us convenient lies, and we should follow suit".
I just got as a response that the "holiday is about love", meaning of that Truth died with Jesus, it is just about self righteous proclamation to others that "they need to go on the right path".
Even as a hardcore atheist, I find people who are offended by “Merry Xmas” to be cringe, and ridiculous. To me, it’s a cultural holiday, and something I enjoy.
Just don't call me late for dinner.
The reason I don't always say, "Merry Christmas" is because some people have very negative emotional baggage with it.
Uncultured people, yeah. But who cares
✝️: “You’re taking the Christ out of Christmas!”
‘…you’re keeping the (Catholic sacrament) Mass IN Christmas… Are you a papist? 😱“
Even when I say "Merry Christmas" to people at church....
I'm referring to the cultural/secular parts.
As in, "have a good time with your family and friends", "enjoy the foods and traditions you enjoy", etc.
In the country I come from Christmas is a two day holiday. Christmas itself and the day after Boxing day. Australia is a much less religious country than the United States. Saying merry Christmas is seen more as a pleasantry.
I used to work in a diverse workplace There were some orthodox Jews and practicing Muslims. In the context of the history of the oppression of these religions it was normal to speak a little more guardedly as one did not want to raise issues from the past
I hope you had a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, Randall.
Happy holidays is not even a secular term. It means holy day, so the person saying not to wish Merry Christmas is impolite and alienating is ironic
Although there are distinctions between "secular Christmas" and "religiously Christian Christmas," the fact does remain that "secular Christmas" - even with all its Santa and elves and candy canes and whatnot - is a direct offspring of "religious Christmas." There are numerous people of non-Christian religions who purposefully don't celebrate Christmas (even the secularized aspects) because of its origins in Christianity, and the hair-splitting between "religious Christmas" and "secular Christmas" doesn't make any difference from their point of view (and there isn't always a clear distinction anyway). A lot of people from culturally Christian backgrounds (religiously Christian and secular alike) assume a kind of general "secular Christmas" as a broader default, but, even though there really is such as thing as "secular Christmas," this is still often viewed as especially presumptive for people who do not come from Christian backgrounds and who purposefully do not celebrate the holiday due to its religious origins. Even if the speaker doesn't assume all Christmas-celebrators are religious, there is an explicit assumption that everyone (even non-Christians) celeberate Christmas, which is not true. (In other words, even in a secular sense, it would be a bit akin to wishing the whole world a happy Canada Day despite not everyone being Canadian. Nevertheless, even a secularized Christmas is still entertwined with religion, so there is always at least an implicit assumption being made about a person's religion or, at the very least, religio-cultural background.) So I really do understand why some people are troubled by a presumption of a secular Christmas. All this being said, speaking strictly for myself, I personally find it difficult to imagine taking offense to a person genuinely wishing me well for a holiday, whether I celebrate it or not. (Although, as Randal points out, weaponized fake "well-wishes" designed to provoke are certainly a distasteful exception.) But just because I'd be fine with someone of any religion wishing me well on a particular day, I don't want to assume everyone else would be equally receptive.
I pretty much agree here, although I low-key think it's a little immature to take offense when you live in a place where the Christmas aesthetic is everywhere.
@@alexh2790 I can certainly understand that. In a culturally Christian area, it isn't outrageouos to see a culturally Christian holiday as a kind of default (even if if not everyone celebrates it), just as it would be understandable for someone in Toronto to use "Happy Canada Day" as a greeting (even if non-Canadians may also be present). I want to give folks the benefit of the doubt, especially if a holiday is particularly popular in that locale, but I can also understand how people might be sensitive when religion is concerned, since even the secular features of Christmas are intertwined with their religious origins and praticing Christians often enjoy the secular aspects. People from non-Christian backgrounds might not be aware of, or interested in, defining the line between the secular and Christian elements of the holiday. Someone familiar with the nativity will know that it has nothing to do with decorated trees and toy-making elves, but someone from a non-Christian background shouldn't be assumed to have an insider knowledge of these particulars when it all gets lumped into something both religious and secular people call "Christmas." But yeah, personally I'd much rather not respond in indignation to someone who just wants to give a heartfelt greeting.
I have observed the opposite. Many non-Christians celebrate the secular Christmas. I have many Sikh, Muslim, and Hindu friends who celebrate Christmas. Plus, I'm atheist, and I still celebrate.
Christians stole Christmas from various pagan beliefs, so I have no problem stealing it back.
@@pcoleman1971 I have observed both. Plenty of non-Christians, including those of other religions and no religion, who celebrate Christmas often very joyously, but I have also very much observed those who very purposefully do not who specifically cite the religious nature of the holiday for their reason. It's not an either/or situation. It's a big world, and different people approach the idea of Christmas differently. And while there is mixing between Christian and pagan traditions over the years (though obviously the general idea to celebrate the birth of Jesus was certainly Christian), that's still, from the point of view of someone from a non-Christian (and non-pagan) background, a similar hair-splitting as between Christian and secular (Christian-pagan-secular if you want). For some people with cultural background that involved persecution by Christianity, it can be hard to separate that out from Christmas. For others, even from similar backgrounds, it isn't difficult at all to make a distinction. That's my main point. at any rate, I hope your Christmas was a good one this year!
I agree to some extent that we should be careful about presumptions. At the same time, a society in which we attempt to avoid presuming anything about anyone else seems like a cold and alienating place to live.
I, a religious Jew, went for a walk yesterday and two different people along the way wished me Merry Christmas. Not wanting to stop and explain that I'm Jewish, I just smiled and waved both times. It is a bit awkward because even if it's meant in a more secular way (which is never clear) , it still is Christian-it's right there in the name 😊 However, I was not offended. When I picked up a To Go food order at a restaurant the night before, and was also wished a Merry Christmas there by a server I've seen many times before, I explained that I'm a "Chanukah guy," and we gave each other the appropriate greeting.
Chag Sameach!
@@Rolando_Cueva 🙏✡
Merry Christmas is a Christian centered greeting
I think if one lived in another land, especially if not by choice, and the dominant religion regularly preached you were condemned to hell, and if you failed to convert to their religion, ostracized you at best. If everyone wished you a happy holiday of their religion, one you believed pagan, and expected you to joyously respond, you might see the discomfort. Sad. Most non-Christians I have met are not offended, and just say "Merry Christmas" back, which is what I hope I would do in another land. Live and let live.
As an Atheist who lives in Germany I don’t understand the problem, I wish everyone a Merry Christmas despite knowing that the vast majority of those people are also Atheists.
This might sound strange, but I never really associated Christmas with Christianity.
It’s just another holiday, just tradition.
Because East Germany has history with communism whereas West Germany is majority Christian
If you want to find something to be offended by, you will.
Ok, Julia. Have a shi**y winter solstice then. I really don't care. Get over yourself. Probably half of the people wishing you Merry Christmas aren't Christian either.
I find its better for my mental health to accept greetings in the spirit in which they are offered.
Sometimes, Christians are obnoxious during this time. The Catholics put up a sign saying that Christmas belongs to them. There's also a bit of selfish egotistical mentality that can rub people the wrong way. That greeting is not always meant sincerely. Let's not pretend that Christians don't go out of their way to get offended which is why they loathe the idea of "Happy Holidays" or "winter solstice" or whatever.
In addition, why does anybody have to accept such an empty platitude? It's not like Christians mean it. Look around the world and you see the reality is that Christians are a curse on the world rather than any blessing. There are not enough hospitals or schools or whatever to make up for their nonsense and sin against all of us. If anything, this holiday is a cheap worthless consumerist shopping day masquerading as some special day. It's not us strangers who destroyed Christmas. It's the Christians. Christians are the worst part of Christmas.
And the bitterness of your comment proves it. Is this what your witness is.. right after Christmas and the so-called love? Take a hard look at what you wrote. It's meanspirited. Check yourself.
This is why I would argue you are a liberal. This is just transparently interethnic/intercultural tension and you are playing the role of neutral mediator where the goal is a sort of passive coexistence of equals. That is liberal. The non liberal take would be it is okay to assert the dominance of Christian culture.
I think that Rauser just pointed out the difference in the meaning of the words.
Christian culture may be dominant or not, the double meaning of the same Christmas can give comfort for people that it was not about getting offensive
Based
It's extremely offensive to say Merry Christmas. You should, instead, say, Schnickleflaus Blomenheffer.
Heil Schicklegruber! 😂
I think it would be to atheists and Muslims, to Jews and people of other faiths.
It's totally fine for me (atheist).
Merry christmas to all of you!
@@thomasseichter5670 I have seen great hostility from atheists if you have faith in God in some social circles, I surely do not have such a thing towards atheists for I was one, it was a part of my life.
@@aaronmichaels807 there are a lot of very insulting and offensive things Christians say. I personally don't think "merry christmas" is one of those things.
@@aaronmichaels807
As an Atheist I have never seen anyone complain about "Merry Christmas“.
This seems to be one of those Twitter phenomenons where activists try to virtue signal to other ideologues.
Atheist here: I have absolutely no thing to day on Christmas.
More awkward is when a Christian on Easter says "Jesus has risen" when you should answer "True has risen". But wishing "Happy Easter Holidays with your family" is also plain and fine with me.
The only proper response is, “I am offended that you are offended.”
Are you actually offended by the fact that they are offended, or that they are expressing that they are offended. What does Jesus have to say about how you should respond to things that offend you?
@ No I’m not actually offended. When I say I’m actually offended. All I was doing was lying…down on a bed of offense that i made for myself. Oh no, now I’m a liar too. Whatever shall I do.
Look here buddy boy. I have the right to be offended without you attempting to smuggle in what you think is the proper interpretation of what Jesus might have said 2,000 years ago. Be real and be a man. I must say, I hate your comment.
@@shaunelliott8583Your comment is an attempt at pious rhetoric?
@@ImpatientTheist my question is an attempt to gauge the integrity of your character, it's not going very well for you so far
@ Your an idiot
Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst.
Thomas Paine
Paine believed in God and thought atheists were morons
Now, take out the first “Y”. 😂