47:00 exporting master and stems (reverb not on stems) - master group sends 53:05 each key could stack - how to mitigate this. 53:18 (mock ups sound thicker) 53:41 most problematic is mid low end 200-400 "muddiness" 54:36 every track will have a bit of eq 55:13 image of tracks>groups>stems>master 56:25 tape saturation 56:53 distortion does to sound… Feeling of all playing at same time in same space Tube / tape and reverb 59:27 panning (huge importance) 1:01:00 panning is a great way for sonic space instead of lowering db 1:02:18 lots of space with panning Eq>panning>tap saturation 1:12:33 50k foot view frontend templates 1:12:56 fast action patches ( ensemble patches) 1:14:20 more (piano choir) 1:15:43 strings basics 1:17:47 orchestral enhancing 1:25:33 following the entire signal path of a couple tracks, processing and final master 1:26:30 Notice Magnetto saturation in the channel strip of the violin, but its group has blackbox in the insert. Two saturations but one on instrument, and one on the entire group. 1:30:45 Orchestra send q: Is a send just a group track in this case? 132.55 2nd instrument routing walk through epic horns 1:39:30 create our own template 1:46:54 (reference track) - no reverb from library at that level Q: in Kontakt when setting up multiple racks, adding I was taught to add some reverbs to the instruments themselves at the rack aux level. This would be a kontakt instance. This would definitely be a pre cubase mix controls, before inserts and channel strip. What is the benefit of this vs doing the reverb at the cubase track level?
I found this video on accident. Glad to see other people do what I do. I spent an entire 8 hour session setting up my template meticulously. - A quick sketch section. For obviously sketching quick overall themes. Piano vst, strings section, brass section, woodwinds, choir, then a tutti group. - All instruments color coded and in folders. - unloaded and resaved all instruments. So it only uses RAM when you are using that specific instrument. It also saves a ton of time on loading the template. - Gain staged instruments at max velocity to ensure even volume at -18dbfs. - Some have a pre-eq applied to fix instrument noise. Instrument groups routed to Berlin Studio Reverb per section. That is sent to a "glue reverb" Anyone watching this believe in the process he is definitely correct.
Just got the course! I'm about to start writing a soundtrack for a video game I've been building and there are 40+ songs for it. So this will immensely useful!
Help please!! when I open a multiple instruments on one kontakt and play them thogether (on MIDI ch. 1) There could be some instruments with keys-swich and thats disturb to play. For example: Ive opened Trumpet and C Bass, so onec I play low on the keyboard its change articulations on the trumpet. (I did the Orch long channel so when i play low on the keyboard it change the articulation of the rquiem vocals) There is some way to take off the keyswiches ?
Hi marc, I watch this video quite often and it is a great source of inspiration for me. Thank you for sharing your experience. At 59:25, you talk about panning and I find it very elegant to process the signal in this way. I implemented this concept of the combined panner, but I wonder if it is the best tool to meet the goal of saving space in the stereo field. In fact, I'm a beginner when it comes to stereo science, although I've been producing music for over ten years, but every day highlights my shortcomings and new understandings on the subject. As far as I know, the combined panner works additively, while the standard panner works subtractively. In this case, depending on the objective, why not use the standard panner? The combined panner will move the signal to one side to gradually place them on the other (R85 will have for consequence of both reducing the right channel by 15%, while adding this 15% of signal on the left channel), while the standard panner will only reduce the amount of signal on one of the two sides (if I position it at L15, the right channel will be reduced by 15%, without respectively increasing the signal of the L). If you have in your mix a instrument that naturally sounds mainly on the right, why not simply turn down the undesired information that is on the left (so use the standard panner)? When we reduce an unwanted side of the stereo image of an instrument with the combined, we are not actually removing it, we are adding it to the other channel. To tell the truth, I realized this phenomenon when I wanted to reposition a drums OH stereo image using the combined panner on the OH stereo BUS, which had the effect of increasing the gain of one of the two channels . I preferred to simply lower the fader of one of the two mics to reposition the snare kick in the center, which I could have done exactly by moving the standard panner to one side. There you go, it's just the expression of a personal reflection, which has more value as a questioning and an attempt at learning than as an affirmation. Once again thank you for everything. Best
What happens if you have an instrument in the left of a room, with a mic in the centre, and then pan right, but do not want to lose the sound of the instrument and just end up with mainly room?
Hola Marc, gracias por mostrarnos este tipo de contenido. Tengo una pregunta... Kontakt lo cargas como instrument track o instrument rack ? Hace un tiempo atrás tuve un archivo excel que correspondía a una template tuya, donde Kontakt estaba cargado como instrument rack y cada instancia de Kontakt tenía varios patches cargados (máximo 16) y asignabas 16 pistas midi por cada Kontakt. Hoy en día puedo observar que ya no trabajas de esa manera, sino que agregando una instancia de Kontakt por instrumento. Es más conveniente eso ? Saludos desde Chile!
Hola amigo! Ya que ha pasado un tiempo te respondo yo. Cargar kontakts separados distribuye mejor tu uso de cpu. Ya que cada instancia ocupa solo 1 core de tu procesador. Si cargas 16 librerías pesadas y con micrófonos multiples es más trabajo para ese core y es posible que se entrecorten las notas. Para instrumentos pequeños con menos voces (como percusión o pads) no hay problema eso sí. Lo único, si bien esta es una forma de mejorar tu uso de cpu, cada instancia de Kontakt ocupa algo de ram 60-80mb. Pero la ram es más barata que un procesador más potente en todo caso. Saludos!
Fantastic video! 🔥🔥 Regarding the export, why not just print the FX tracks? then mix/mastering engineers can also balance or treat the fx track individually from the "dry" tracks.
Hi Marc, just discovered your channel. Great stuff! Curious what made you switch from Logic to Cubase? I know many composers like Hans and Junkie XL use it, but is there a major advantage over Logic that warrants me switching DAWs? Many thanks!
I switched back in 2012... back then I had a reason (Logic multicore handling...) but these days are both equally good in my opinion. I'm just staying on Cubase because I'm used to it...
Great insight, Marc, thanks a lot! There’s one thing I don’t quite understand: First you narrow down the stereo width on the track level, but at 3:08:30 you bring back width with the Stereo Imager plug-in. Isn’t this counteractive in a way? Also, when working on a film score, we usually have to deal with dialogue in the center of the stereo field. Wouldn’t it make sense then to bring the orchestra to the far left and right side to make space for the dialogue? What is your opinion on this? Thank you!
When you balance the volume of each instrument in the template what Db are you trying to achieve with each instrument? So are you making sure each instrument is peaking at -18db before you even begin mixing?
Marc, a couple of things... 1 - Have you thought about selling your populated template as is? It would be a great starting point, and for those libraries that a person doesn't have they could just delete those tracks. 2 - Can you say what audio buffer size you are able to get away with with your template in Cubase? And also, how is the Kontakt engine set up regarding Multiprocessor support? Thanks!
Hello Mac, thank you very much for the course. It is amazing so far. One question. Where can I find the BBC template? I went to the website, but it does not seem to be available anymore.
Hello Marc, you always do a good job on showing us how to approach and get better.. I just purchased Cubase , is it possible to get your latest template .. I believe I have all the libraries you have. thank you ..
Hey Marc, great content :D you also have the template for Logic to download? I only could find the cubase one! Thanks for your help and sharing your knowledge :) have a great weekend, Felix
Hey Marc, really thank you a lot for all of the gold informations that you provide ! It really means a lot to me ! I have question concerning reverbs : I use to separate all "long" notes section instruments (strings, brass, woods..) and apply each one a different reverb (for more separation). I see now that you use only two reverbs (convolution and algorithmic) for each section of the orchestra ?
This was AMAZING! What a game-changer. I'm just getting started with things and have been spending so much time just trying to find the right sounds, so each time i work on a new piece, it's hours and hours of recreating the wheel. This is awesome. I have ableton live but was able to (mostly) figure out how to transfer the learnings over... I don't know if there's a way to make the exporting work as it does in Cubase after grouping and routing out to sends, but even if i have to do it manually, this has already been a HUGE time-saver. I'm so bummed I missed the coupon, hope you do it again. you may explain this in another video, but what's the red controller you're using, and what effects are routed to it? Looks like volume or velocity is one, obviously... (this is how new I am to all of this, maybe others know exactly what that kit is and how you're using it). Thanks again for this video.
Hey Marc, hope you could help me with this. I'm having a battle trying to decide between the PreSonus FaderPort 8 and the Sparrow 5x5 MIDI controller specifically for modulation, dynamics, expression and etc. I see that you have used them both and I'll really appreciate if would give me your opinion on this. Thanks a lot!.
What would be nice is a student version of Cubase to create the template in. I don't have cubase & have logic pro. It's not geared for orchestral producing & would make this course way way harder than buying cubase.
Hi Marc, thank you for this video, always clear, useful and pro :) I have 1 question about the export settings: if on Cubase I put reverbs on individual tracks but not on Groups or Stems tracks, do you think with your export settings, it will print reverbs also? Thank you, wishing you a lovely day
I've been studying this for the next pass on my Reaper Orchestral template. One question: if you were to put the frequency-stacking / mud EQ on the Group tracks, what impact would that have?
Marc i have an issue with this. For example I send the long violins to the high strings long group. Then i send the group to the orchestra stem and the reverb. So it has 2 sends. But when i playback the track i get the sounds from both the orchestra group and the reverb. That means all insteuments are doubled. If i mute the stems i will not be able to hear the tracks that have no reverb at all. Any ideas?
Hey! You should only have your Sends going to the reverb(s) or other effects. The dry signal should be configured through Outputs rather than Sends. For example - Long Violins go to Strings High Long DRY Bus Output, and the Strings Long Reverb should be a send, that in turn has an Output to Strings Long FX Bus output. Then you can Have both Strings High Long DRY Bus and Strings Long FX Bus go to the same summing Stem (Strings Long), which then goes to your Orchestra Stem. So only the reverb is a send in your case. This way you get dry signal and wet signal summed at the Level of Strings Long Stem, and then this stem outputs to Orchestra Stem. It's a lot easier to explain this graphically, but I tried with text. hope it helps
@@nickbulavin I really hope for a graphic explaination now :P I work with Reaper so in reaper it's just tracks. I don't get how I should create dry bus and FX bus. On my FX bus a have the 3 reverbs for now. And I send the groups there.
Hey Nick my friend how are you!? How's life!? Thanks for commenting and responding. ❤️ @okamusic90 - I'd encourage you to come to one of my live sessions, remind me of the questions and I can do a graphic explanation of that 🙏
I purchased the course and I was looking for the template that this video and the course referenced. Cannot find it. Where is it? I have Cubase and was looking to have this template as a starting point. Where can I download it?
Hey Marc. Which Cubase do you use? Cubase LE AI Elements 11 doesn't seem to have the enable/disable function (and has limited tracks), so I''ve started with a more selective template which feels a bit limiting when I'm wanting to work.
Thank you very much Marc for your generosity. Giving us all this valuable advice is really appreciated. Often when we produce orchestral music with VIs we tend to want to virtually recreate the sound of a "real" orchestra to the detriment perhaps of its more defined and broad sound which requires a very different approach, like that which you illustrate. Best,
47:00 exporting master and stems (reverb not on stems) - master group sends
53:05 each key could stack - how to mitigate this.
53:18 (mock ups sound thicker)
53:41 most problematic is mid low end 200-400 "muddiness"
54:36 every track will have a bit of eq
55:13 image of tracks>groups>stems>master
56:25 tape saturation
56:53 distortion does to sound…
Feeling of all playing at same time in same space
Tube / tape and reverb
59:27 panning (huge importance)
1:01:00 panning is a great way for sonic space instead of lowering db
1:02:18 lots of space with panning
Eq>panning>tap saturation
1:12:33 50k foot view frontend templates
1:12:56 fast action patches ( ensemble patches)
1:14:20 more (piano choir)
1:15:43 strings basics
1:17:47 orchestral enhancing
1:25:33 following the entire signal path of a couple tracks, processing and final master
1:26:30 Notice Magnetto saturation in the channel strip of the violin, but its group has blackbox in the insert. Two saturations but one on instrument, and one on the entire group.
1:30:45 Orchestra send
q: Is a send just a group track in this case?
132.55 2nd instrument routing walk through epic horns
1:39:30 create our own template
1:46:54 (reference track)
- no reverb from library at that level
Q: in Kontakt when setting up multiple racks, adding I was taught to add some reverbs to the instruments themselves at the rack aux level. This would be a kontakt instance. This would definitely be a pre cubase mix controls, before inserts and channel strip. What is the benefit of this vs doing the reverb at the cubase track level?
I found this video on accident. Glad to see other people do what I do. I spent an entire 8 hour session setting up my template meticulously.
- A quick sketch section. For obviously sketching quick overall themes. Piano vst, strings section, brass section, woodwinds, choir, then a tutti group.
- All instruments color coded and in folders.
- unloaded and resaved all instruments. So it only uses RAM when you are using that specific instrument. It also saves a ton of time on loading the template.
- Gain staged instruments at max velocity to ensure even volume at -18dbfs.
- Some have a pre-eq applied to fix instrument noise. Instrument groups routed to Berlin Studio Reverb per section. That is sent to a "glue reverb"
Anyone watching this believe in the process he is definitely correct.
I just came back from Afghanistan - and I'm already a composer.
Oh, what an exciting world. Thank you Clinton!!!
Marc...you have conv reverb and algo reverb ..plus reverb low, high and mid...Is CONV and ALGO routed to those (low, high, mid) .or what?
Thank you so much for sharing this. It helped me so much!
This video played itself as I was contemplating a method myself. So grateful to seek advice from a reliable source. Thanks you!
Just got the course! I'm about to start writing a soundtrack for a video game I've been building and there are 40+ songs for it. So this will immensely useful!
This is probably the best video on TH-cam!
You
Are
The
Man!
Una pregunta: he notado que tienes "Audio inputs" y "audio outputs" desconectados, Marc. ¿Cómo es que tienes sonido? ¿Qué es lo que no entendí?
Cubase has something called "Control Room" might be why. Look into that.
Help please!!
when I open a multiple instruments on one kontakt and play them thogether (on MIDI ch. 1) There could be some instruments with keys-swich and thats disturb to play.
For example: Ive opened Trumpet and C Bass, so onec I play low on the keyboard its change articulations on the trumpet.
(I did the Orch long channel so when i play low on the keyboard it change the articulation of the rquiem vocals)
There is some way to take off the keyswiches ?
Hi marc,
I watch this video quite often and it is a great source of inspiration for me. Thank you for sharing your experience.
At 59:25, you talk about panning and I find it very elegant to process the signal in this way. I implemented this concept of the combined panner, but I wonder if it is the best tool to meet the goal of saving space in the stereo field.
In fact, I'm a beginner when it comes to stereo science, although I've been producing music for over ten years, but every day highlights my shortcomings and new understandings on the subject.
As far as I know, the combined panner works additively, while the standard panner works subtractively.
In this case, depending on the objective, why not use the standard panner?
The combined panner will move the signal to one side to gradually place them on the other (R85 will have for consequence of both reducing the right channel by 15%, while adding this 15% of signal on the left channel), while the standard panner will only reduce the amount of signal on one of the two sides (if I position it at L15, the right channel will be reduced by 15%, without respectively increasing the signal of the L).
If you have in your mix a instrument that naturally sounds mainly on the right, why not simply turn down the undesired information that is on the left (so use the standard panner)?
When we reduce an unwanted side of the stereo image of an instrument with the combined, we are not actually removing it, we are adding it to the other channel.
To tell the truth, I realized this phenomenon when I wanted to reposition a drums OH stereo image using the combined panner on the OH stereo BUS, which had the effect of increasing the gain of one of the two channels . I preferred to simply lower the fader of one of the two mics to reposition the snare kick in the center, which I could have done exactly by moving the standard panner to one side.
There you go, it's just the expression of a personal reflection, which has more value as a questioning and an attempt at learning than as an affirmation.
Once again thank you for everything.
Best
What happens if you have an instrument in the left of a room, with a mic in the centre, and then pan right, but do not want to lose the sound of the instrument and just end up with mainly room?
@@LeeGee I agree with you, but that is not the subject of my post
Hola Marc, gracias por mostrarnos este tipo de contenido. Tengo una pregunta... Kontakt lo cargas como instrument track o instrument rack ? Hace un tiempo atrás tuve un archivo excel que correspondía a una template tuya, donde Kontakt estaba cargado como instrument rack y cada instancia de Kontakt tenía varios patches cargados (máximo 16) y asignabas 16 pistas midi por cada Kontakt. Hoy en día puedo observar que ya no trabajas de esa manera, sino que agregando una instancia de Kontakt por instrumento. Es más conveniente eso ? Saludos desde Chile!
Hola amigo! Ya que ha pasado un tiempo te respondo yo. Cargar kontakts separados distribuye mejor tu uso de cpu. Ya que cada instancia ocupa solo 1 core de tu procesador. Si cargas 16 librerías pesadas y con micrófonos multiples es más trabajo para ese core y es posible que se entrecorten las notas. Para instrumentos pequeños con menos voces (como percusión o pads) no hay problema eso sí. Lo único, si bien esta es una forma de mejorar tu uso de cpu, cada instancia de Kontakt ocupa algo de ram 60-80mb. Pero la ram es más barata que un procesador más potente en todo caso. Saludos!
Fantastic video! 🔥🔥 Regarding the export, why not just print the FX tracks? then mix/mastering engineers can also balance or treat the fx track individually from the "dry" tracks.
Hi Marc, just discovered your channel. Great stuff! Curious what made you switch from Logic to Cubase? I know many composers like Hans and Junkie XL use it, but is there a major advantage over Logic that warrants me switching DAWs? Many thanks!
I switched back in 2012... back then I had a reason (Logic multicore handling...) but these days are both equally good in my opinion. I'm just staying on Cubase because I'm used to it...
@@CinematicComposing Got it, thanks so much for the reply and all your great content!
Great insight, Marc, thanks a lot! There’s one thing I don’t quite understand: First you narrow down the stereo width on the track level, but at 3:08:30 you bring back width with the Stereo Imager plug-in. Isn’t this counteractive in a way?
Also, when working on a film score, we usually have to deal with dialogue in the center of the stereo field. Wouldn’t it make sense then to bring the orchestra to the far left and right side to make space for the dialogue? What is your opinion on this? Thank you!
Thanks for sharing ! Super helpfull !
❤️❤️❤️❤️
When you balance the volume of each instrument in the template what Db are you trying to achieve with each instrument? So are you making sure each instrument is peaking at -18db before you even begin mixing?
How do you still compose on that template without latency? Any Fab Filter MB or Soothe should introduce tons of latency?
3:34:00 recap
Marc, a couple of things...
1 - Have you thought about selling your populated template as is? It would be a great starting point, and for those libraries that a person doesn't have they could just delete those tracks.
2 - Can you say what audio buffer size you are able to get away with with your template in Cubase? And also, how is the Kontakt engine set up regarding Multiprocessor support?
Thanks!
Hello Mac, thank you very much for the course. It is amazing so far. One question. Where can I find the BBC template? I went to the website, but it does not seem to be available anymore.
Hello Marc, you always do a good job on showing us how to approach and get better.. I just purchased Cubase , is it possible to get your latest template .. I believe I have all the libraries you have. thank you ..
Thanks for the comments @kenwallace5250
Here's the template: drive.google.com/file/d/1dpM6WFx54SokNxIZFYnewnw_uPr4vFqB/view?usp=sharing
Mark, Thank you for all of this. I purchased the course. What is you resulution setting 44.1k 24b, 48k 24b or which one??
Hey Marc, great content :D you also have the template for Logic to download? I only could find the cubase one! Thanks for your help and sharing your knowledge :) have a great weekend, Felix
Hola Marc, puedes decirnos como es tu MAC STUDIO en cuanto a nucleos ram etc??
Hey Marc, really thank you a lot for all of the gold informations that you provide ! It really means a lot to me !
I have question concerning reverbs : I use to separate all "long" notes section instruments (strings, brass, woods..) and apply each one a different reverb (for more separation). I see now that you use only two reverbs (convolution and algorithmic) for each section of the orchestra ?
This was AMAZING! What a game-changer. I'm just getting started with things and have been spending so much time just trying to find the right sounds, so each time i work on a new piece, it's hours and hours of recreating the wheel. This is awesome.
I have ableton live but was able to (mostly) figure out how to transfer the learnings over... I don't know if there's a way to make the exporting work as it does in Cubase after grouping and routing out to sends, but even if i have to do it manually, this has already been a HUGE time-saver. I'm so bummed I missed the coupon, hope you do it again.
you may explain this in another video, but what's the red controller you're using, and what effects are routed to it? Looks like volume or velocity is one, obviously... (this is how new I am to all of this, maybe others know exactly what that kit is and how you're using it). Thanks again for this video.
also, at 1:34-ish, what's the marcato plugin you mention for the horn articulation?
Hey Marc, hope you could help me with this. I'm having a battle trying to decide between the PreSonus FaderPort 8 and the Sparrow 5x5 MIDI controller specifically for modulation, dynamics, expression and etc. I see that you have used them both and I'll really appreciate if would give me your opinion on this. Thanks a lot!.
I want that red midi CC controller. What is it called? Thanks
What would be nice is a student version of Cubase to create the template in. I don't have cubase & have logic pro. It's not geared for orchestral producing & would make this course way way harder than buying cubase.
What is the red device do you make volume and articulation?
Do you have a template fo Bitwig Daw too?
Unfortunately no😞
I don't recommend using Bitwig for large orchestral templates
Hi Marc, thank you for this video, always clear, useful and pro :) I have 1 question about the export settings: if on Cubase I put reverbs on individual tracks but not on Groups or Stems tracks, do you think with your export settings, it will print reverbs also? Thank you, wishing you a lovely day
46:37
I've been studying this for the next pass on my Reaper Orchestral template. One question: if you were to put the frequency-stacking / mud EQ on the Group tracks, what impact would that have?
Marc i have an issue with this. For example I send the long violins to the high strings long group. Then i send the group to the orchestra stem and the reverb. So it has 2 sends. But when i playback the track i get the sounds from both the orchestra group and the reverb. That means all insteuments are doubled. If i mute the stems i will not be able to hear the tracks that have no reverb at all. Any ideas?
Hey! You should only have your Sends going to the reverb(s) or other effects. The dry signal should be configured through Outputs rather than Sends. For example - Long Violins go to Strings High Long DRY Bus Output, and the Strings Long Reverb should be a send, that in turn has an Output to Strings Long FX Bus output. Then you can Have both Strings High Long DRY Bus and Strings Long FX Bus go to the same summing Stem (Strings Long), which then goes to your Orchestra Stem. So only the reverb is a send in your case. This way you get dry signal and wet signal summed at the Level of Strings Long Stem, and then this stem outputs to Orchestra Stem.
It's a lot easier to explain this graphically, but I tried with text. hope it helps
@@nickbulavin I really hope for a graphic explaination now :P I work with Reaper so in reaper it's just tracks. I don't get how I should create dry bus and FX bus. On my FX bus a have the 3 reverbs for now. And I send the groups there.
Hey Nick my friend how are you!? How's life!? Thanks for commenting and responding. ❤️
@okamusic90 - I'd encourage you to come to one of my live sessions, remind me of the questions and I can do a graphic explanation of that 🙏
But the groups are going to the reverbs not individual tracks on the drawing. The individual tracks are sent to the groups dry.@@nickbulavin
@@CinematicComposing Hey Marc, doing great, stumbled upon this video. You're still doing a great job teaching, I learned a lot from your courses ))
I purchased the course and I was looking for the template that this video and the course referenced. Cannot find it. Where is it? I have Cubase and was looking to have this template as a starting point. Where can I download it?
Here: drive.google.com/file/d/1dpM6WFx54SokNxIZFYnewnw_uPr4vFqB/view?usp=sharing
47:43 How Do we do that in Studio One 6 ? and also in logic ? I dont see any option like that .
Hey Marc. Which Cubase do you use? Cubase LE AI Elements 11 doesn't seem to have the enable/disable function (and has limited tracks), so I''ve started with a more selective template which feels a bit limiting when I'm wanting to work.
Cubase Pro...
Can you make new jack swing
Thank you very much Marc for your generosity. Giving us all this valuable advice is really appreciated. Often when we produce orchestral music with VIs we tend to want to virtually recreate the sound of a "real" orchestra to the detriment perhaps of its more defined and broad sound which requires a very different approach, like that which you illustrate. Best,
Just missed this one. I guess we need to wait for another year 🥹😁