Really enjoying what all these episodes again in 2023. Remember watching them as a kid in the early 70s. Have to admit this episode was pretty cheesy but still fun. Lost track of the number of plot holes
They just don’t make them like this anymore, might not be the best of anything, acting, storylines etc, but when this was first shown it was absolute state of the art, and I grew up watching it, and in my humble opinion it’s still great viewing. Thanks for sharing this with us, especially me, huge thumbs up 👍
I never missed an episode of this when I was a kid. Of course by then it was already in the reruns. I love the flying sub. I just the overall look of the Seaview was awesome. Admiral Nelson and Captain Crane my two favorite characters. Always like Kowalski too. He always seem to get into all kinds of trouble LOL I will still watch the show any chance I get today.
Yes. With the move to draw in the kids with gusto, viewers got non stop action, flames and sparks, a pitching sub and of course.... (see Maria Kelly below).
This was a show us baby boomers grew up with, What a great Adventure it was. As kids we had a very cool model of the Seaview Sub. And it came to television in 1964 and ran to 1968 prior to Star Trek which premiered in 1966. There were many back then Star Trek, Lost in Space, Time Tunnel, Land of the Giants just to name a few.
@@improperbostonian6722 Aurora made a lot of cool model kits back in the 60's!. I wish I still had all of them!. The kits are worth a lot of money if they are still in the box nowadays!!!
watched the show ever week, it was on Sundays, followed by The FBI then the ABC Sunday night movie. By contemporary standards it's a pretty silly show, by the standards of its time, '64-68, it was pretty cool. great memories. thanks for posting.
Yeah... we were all less sophisticated... not always a bad thing (instead of cynicism). Lots of implausible aliens, on-board explosions and fires and twinkling light panels.... and going deep... to six feet! But you're right...was entertaining at the time
@@davidlamotta1994 I remember this show lasted five seasons and Star Trek less than three. But, Star Trek, Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea, Lost In Space, The Invaders, and Time Tunnel were all favourites of mine. Among kids it was at least as popular as Star Trek. One Christmas '67 or '68 I was given a plastic model kit of the Seaview by Aurora I believe. I loved this show.
@Wayne Stead I still have all 110 on Video (many with ads) from UK Channel 4 in 1990-92. Good ole VHS!! I never missed one but had a few close shaves when CH4 rescheduled with little notice.
I loved this series as a kid, great stories of fantasy and adventure, what a sub and what a crew! Marvellous actors like Richard Baseheart and David Hedison...just brilliant! In this episode...the monsters are aliens causing global warming! Talk about being ahead of their time! I knew it was them alien Frostmen all along! 😉
I too only found out a week ago that David Hedison passed away...Great actor with a good screen presence...Fans may remember him as Felix Leiter in the 1st Roger Moore outing as James Bond in Live and Let Die
Critics often are very hard on these shows but the same "comic book" version of reality which Irwin Allen's shows were dissed for were also a big reason for their huge popularity... the shows are huge fun!
Hey, somebody else made a beautiful video post, clear, whole picture, thank you thumbs UP UP UP thank you Caroline! Wish others would follow your example
You've got something here. Would have made for an interesting development. Unfortunately it may be the case that commercial demands called for Action+Conflict; ABC was moving to attract and hold younger audiences who had been offered Lassie and Walt Disney in this early Sunday slot for years. Compare the "high camp conflict" here with the first season episode "The Sky Is Falling" (season 1 aired on another night).
Irwin Allen and Gerry Anderson these guy came up with these great sci-fi adventure shows I think they should be right up there with Gene Roddenberry and George Lucas
I didn’t know, that’s a real shame, he was a good actor and I don’t ever remember there being anything “untoward “ attached to his name, unlike so many others past or sill with us, he personified the clean cut all American boy. 😞🇬🇧🏴
Richard Basehart, I sincerely hope you are just trying to make a bad joke, your screen name reveals somewhat of a ghoulish start to your comment. If you are serious I sincerely hope you decide to get help for your problem, because as sure as eggs is eggs, you have one.
Voyage was a very good series, particularly in its earlier seasons. It was the network that asked for the series to be dumbned down a bit, but even so still many enjoyable episodes in the later seasons as well!
Sure do, fact Richard Basehart guest started on Little House in "Troublemaker" as the new school teacher Hannabal Applewood. Kevin Hagan who played Doc Baker appeared in Land Of The Giants as Inspector Kobick.
Yes. FOX was only too pleased to acquire surplus NASA computers (confirm this online). The Man From UNCLE had also spruced up its last season with recently acquired NASA toys. 48:30
Hey, he’s using the gun that Mr. freeze has from Batman. It’s nice to know Mr. freeze found peace from his criminal career helping others and being a good citizen although cold hearted good citizen.
Just like Lost In Space the characters in this show are freezing and sweating at the same time. Also, people like to shoot at first sight of any aliens
Lost and Voyage were produced by the same people and often used the same " monsters ", it's how Irwin Allen saved money. Occasionally the same guest stars were used, but oddly, not all that often.
Commercial pressures here. Voyage had a fascinating initial delivery--- ABC actually upgraded the format from the Pilot's proposal, an updated Saturday Matinee Serial. Shift to Sunday at 7pm for year 2 found the Fox bean counters seeing the show as having to stay alive by corraling as many of the kids as possible away from long run Sunday shows like Lassie and Walt Disney. Episodes aimed at "older audiences" had soft ratings as Season 2 opened. The PTB also determined that the younger audiences wanted "sub stories" not surface ones (latter expensive anyway). The "monster" became ever more important. Season 3, the Big Switch. Then, "conflict" feeding "action". Thus, if Seaview was to be in battle every week (tension+action=ratings) the "opposing alien" was hired on as an important personage.
tony barlow - Ah yes, the somewhat obscure art of reading flashing lights... did they not teach you that in sci-fi school, lol... Spock was expert at programming the Enterprises computer with just the flick of a couple of switches... I guess that's how 60s people imagined it would be in the future... good tho... :)
Had to be a chore cleaning up all that "frost" covering the bridge! Script sort of falls apart after the admiral unfreezes. I'm a little fuzzy on the Fire on Ice thing 😮
A commentator recently mentioned that "fire" was big on the show this season...metaphor here for something? Season 4 opens with "Fires of Death, " and "Attack" that same month as "Flaming Ice" (3-68) has fire underwater all over the place.
At 26;53, Dive all Dive! is ordered, next scene the Seaview jumped out of the ocean like it does in a panic. THEN is seen immediately submerged. Pretty fast ship, or bad editing?
That WAS a baffling scene. It still gets my attention today. Seaview has supposedly escaped the undersea grotto, then is descending again (?) A point in the scene s favor --- an unusual wide shot from under the Seaview as it "drops" back into the depths. I don't recall finding that in another episode...😮
Yes, that's from the earlier movie. Ice tumbled down on the Seaview to draw attention to the flaming sky above. Seaview had to dive to clear it. As you know, stock footage continued to be used for the run of the series. Theodore Sturgeon apparently attempted to "explain" the "plunging ice" in the novelization of the movie. The TV episode "The Sky's On Fire" also attempted something of an "explanation" in one brief scene. Yes, Irwin's critics still attempt to get some mileage out of THIS one.
The Admiral heads up NIMR, the Nelson Institute of Marine Research. A family "business" that has multiple high level connections. The "science ", "diplomacy" , and investigations are the Admiral s duty. The Seaview also needs a Captain, an Executive Officer (Chip), and more. Pattern here is supplied by the Navy, even though the Seaview is not a Navy sub but ostensibly "civilian run" through a maze of civilian and federal offices.
Really enjoying what all these episodes again in 2023. Remember watching them as a kid in the early 70s. Have to admit this episode was pretty cheesy but still fun. Lost track of the number of plot holes
I don't remember this episode. Thanks for posting.
Ahh .. the GOOD old days of TV. I miss this so much.
I do too! ... So much.
Really............@@sandrakimball518
They just don’t make them like this anymore, might not be the best of anything, acting, storylines etc, but when this was first shown it was absolute state of the art, and I grew up watching it, and in my humble opinion it’s still great viewing. Thanks for sharing this with us, especially me, huge thumbs up 👍
I also grow up watching that it was one of my favorate show
I remember I had a voyage to the bottom of the sea lunch box and a flying sub model i put together i was the coolest 😎 kid in 6th grade
@@jaysnow973 Me to, no flying sub model though.
@@Three_Random_Words Same🛸🦈😉here👌🏿
Jan3Sun2021
B🇧🇧 dos
@@Three_Random_Words
Same🛸🦈😉here👌🏿
Jan3Sun2021
B🇧🇧 dos
Even today 😭 this series is fresh in our minds...a long with Jim West...time tunnel...and others best series.
At 13, this was one of my favorite shows.I was a budding jr marine biologist. The 60's was about any kind of science. It was the under sea Star Trek.
Richard Basehart was a terrific actor. One of the top ten voices. Did some fine documentary dubbing.
he narrated a doco about the Vietnam war ,,kind of added a spookiness to it
Also narrated a documentary on the Nazi extermination camps. Very,very powerful. He added much to the program.
Irwin Allen was a genius much ahead of his time.
R.I.P. Albert David Hedison Jr.
1927-2019
Good old fashioned tv show thank you for letting us enjoy it and the other one’s it was a simple time god bless you all
Loved this show and adored Captain Lee Crane.. one of my all time faves. David Hedison as Lee was great!
Was he in the 1950's movie, "The Fly."?
@@paulanderson1614 Yes that was him, the original Fly.
@@paulanderson1614 yes, in 1958, with Vincent Price
He was gorgeous wasn't he.😍
I never missed an episode of this when I was a kid. Of course by then it was already in the reruns. I love the flying sub. I just the overall look of the Seaview was awesome. Admiral Nelson and Captain Crane my two favorite characters. Always like Kowalski too. He always seem to get into all kinds of trouble LOL I will still watch the show any chance I get today.
Every episode; thrown from side to side without fail.
That maneuver was known in the TV industry as "The Seaview Rock and Roll."
Yes. With the move to draw in the kids with gusto, viewers got non stop action, flames and sparks, a pitching sub and of course.... (see Maria Kelly below).
This was a show us baby boomers grew up with, What a great Adventure it was. As kids we had a very cool model of the Seaview Sub. And it came to television in 1964 and ran to 1968 prior to Star Trek which premiered in 1966. There were many back then Star Trek, Lost in Space, Time Tunnel, Land of the Giants just to name a few.
I remember Land of the Giants. They used safety pins for grappling hooks.
Yes!, I had one too. I believe that the kit was made by Aroura?
@@trentxiiib8756 Yes I remember Aurora made model kits, Classic Monsters and such.
@@improperbostonian6722 Aurora made a lot of cool model kits back in the 60's!. I wish I still had all of them!. The kits are worth a lot of money if they are still in the box nowadays!!!
Irwin Allen Gene Roddenberry George and Sylva Anderson Their Science Fiction Vision provided many memorable entertainment episodes for years.
"I am Chillit, leader of the Frost men". Classic! This show did'nt seem so campy back when I was 7 years old.
This was one of my favorite shows.
I loved this show when it came out....had a HUGE crush on Cpt. Crain. 🤗
So did I.
Loved this series , brought back a lot of childhood memories . David Hedison what can I say so loved him xx
Loved him too. He was so handsome.
watched the show ever week, it was on Sundays, followed by The FBI then the ABC Sunday night movie. By contemporary standards it's a pretty silly show, by the standards of its time, '64-68, it was pretty cool. great memories. thanks for posting.
Ill take silly little shows of the 60s over the crappy modern self indulgent sh*** shows of today.
Yeah... we were all less sophisticated... not always a bad thing (instead of cynicism). Lots of implausible aliens, on-board explosions and fires and twinkling light panels.... and going deep... to six feet! But you're right...was entertaining at the time
Nice tribute, thank you.
Happy days, Snowing in a sub- love it- I recorded all 110 episodes from Chan four on VHS from this series of repeats....still have them too!
Got a question for ya. Was this show more popular than the original STAR TREK?
@@davidlamotta1994 I remember this show lasted five seasons and Star Trek less than three. But, Star Trek, Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea, Lost In Space, The Invaders, and Time Tunnel were all favourites of mine. Among kids it was at least as popular as Star Trek. One Christmas '67 or '68 I was given a plastic model kit of the Seaview by Aurora I believe. I loved this show.
@@davidlamotta1994 yes at the time..but history suggests star trek win over time :)!
@@Retired_Gentleman AMEN! Fantastic shows and eas a pleasure to watch them
@Wayne Stead I still have all 110 on Video (many with ads) from UK Channel 4 in 1990-92. Good ole VHS!! I never missed one but had a few close shaves when CH4 rescheduled with little notice.
"Damage Control report!" was the line heard every week on this show.
Didn't know what to expect. I enjoyed this. Don't know how I missed this show as a kid, I would have loved it.
I loved this series as a kid, great stories of fantasy and adventure, what a sub and what a crew! Marvellous actors like Richard Baseheart and David Hedison...just brilliant! In this episode...the monsters are aliens causing global warming! Talk about being ahead of their time! I knew it was them alien Frostmen all along! 😉
Irwin Allen was an underrated genius !!!!
I too only found out a week ago that David Hedison passed away...Great actor with a good screen presence...Fans may remember him as Felix Leiter in the 1st Roger Moore outing as James Bond in Live and Let Die
"The Fly"
He was also in lissence to kill
Kowalski, king of concussions.
RIP to the actors of the Bottom of the Sea.
Critics often are very hard on these shows but the same "comic book" version of reality which Irwin Allen's shows were dissed for were also a big reason for their huge popularity... the shows are huge fun!
Wonderful tribute! Thank you.
Good show. Never got to see it much as I was too young. I always wanted to watch it though. Thank you. I much enjoyed this. 👍
Hey, somebody else made a beautiful video post, clear, whole picture, thank you thumbs UP UP UP thank you Caroline! Wish others would follow your example
Micheal Pate Australian Actor RIP.
LOVED THIS SHOW AS A KID!
Funny thing is, if the Icemen had simply asked for help, Admiral Nelson probably would have helped them.
You've got something here. Would have made for an interesting development. Unfortunately it may be the case that commercial demands called for Action+Conflict; ABC was moving to attract and hold younger audiences who had been offered Lassie and Walt Disney in this early Sunday slot for years.
Compare the "high camp conflict" here with the first season episode "The Sky Is Falling" (season 1 aired on another night).
The sea view always would take a beating but would keep on ticking...
I have never seen this episode before. Thanks for posting.
loved this show as a kid!
R.I.P David Hedison..greatly missed.
One of my favorite tv shows
@An War fuck off! You dumb animal!
@@markgraham4732 WTH are you talking about?
@@mariakelly1059 His father I suspect.
"Flaming Ice"
One of my top 10 favorites
That show kept the sparkler companies in business
Australian Michael Pate's voice is distinctive in the alien leader
For some nutty reason I thought it was director John Huston at first.
michael pate,who played the alien leader in this also played chief vittoro on 'hondo'!
A wonderful actor. Hope Hondo can turn up again sometime.
I think watching this show as a kid directly led to me joining the Air Force. Too claustrophobic. But that flying sub! Oh yeah!
TV shows that the whole family could watch----not anymore
I didn’t know TV didn’t exist anymore. Wake up after 70 years in the ice and end up missing everything.
@@NPCSingularity Have hope, this show can be found between $5, maybe $10 on eBay. New DVD in wrapper
It is truly dire 😂
Loved this show as a kid, but it was difficult to play it as all we could really do was throw ourselves from side to side and shout.
Lord have mercy on David Hedison. a great man and talented actor as well as a true gent
LOL
@@danieljudah225 What exactly do you mean?
@@johnryder1713
Which "lord" are you referring to?
@@danieljudah225 God like maybe, then maybe I'll say RIP instead
@@johnryder1713 He may be referring to the fact that David Hedison was Jodi Foster's father-in-law.
those were the days, but their long gone great shows in the 60s, far better than the trash thats shown today.
Great soundtrack great memories... got to get a Flying Sub !!!
“It is a megaton phase 7, perfect” 😂 38:49
Irwin Allen and Gerry Anderson these guy came up with these great sci-fi adventure shows I think they should be right up there with Gene Roddenberry and George Lucas
This happened to me when I was in the Navy on board the USS Cincinnati. Oh wait, no it didn’t.
Stolen Valor
I think I was serving on the USS Newport News then! Er, maybe?
Ha!
I love how the crew ignores the fires. Eventually someone comes in carrying a fire extinguisher.
Basic Damage Control PQS is not required on USS Seaview.
Active Charlie fires and discharging CO2 into Control, and not a EAB in sight, too.
Constant fires that should be deadly, but every time a devine miracle makes everything A OK. If it wasn't for this, I might half accept the show.
@@SSN515The Seaview crew always tries to keep their priorities in order.
One of my Favorite show: Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea - Flaming Ice.
So sad to hear of the passing of David Hedison. Wonderful actor. I think he is the last of the crew to have passed.
Sad
When did he passed away?
I didn’t know, that’s a real shame, he was a good actor and I don’t ever remember there being anything “untoward “ attached to his name, unlike so many others past or sill with us, he personified the clean cut all American boy. 😞🇬🇧🏴
Richard Basehart, I sincerely hope you are just trying to make a bad joke, your screen name reveals somewhat of a ghoulish start to your comment. If you are serious I sincerely hope you decide to get help for your problem, because as sure as eggs is eggs, you have one.
@@davidsemple1241 I LOVED THIS PICTURE WHEN I WAS A CHILD..
Another great episode. To bad there are no other comments. It happens when u leave something this good on the shelf too long.(ls)
Voyage was a very good series, particularly in its earlier seasons. It was the network that asked for the series to be dumbned down a bit, but even so still many enjoyable episodes in the later seasons as well!
Mediocre at best.
Excellent, reminiscent of Devil in the Dark (Star Trek OS).
"Star Trek" was far superior to this!
I like ...this is the film spectacular😍
a great series
The ice dudes looks like flock of seagulls! The frozen version! LOL!
😂
Started out ok but ended up weird, but like lost in space, the time tunnel, land of the giants.
The doctor is richard bull Mr Oleson !
great show,better than stuff they make today and on a far smaller budget,also no stupid c.g.i
Good show 👏 👍
Lovely plastic ice walls.
Anyone else think that the Icemen resemble Star Trek TOS Andorians?
I hope Netflix makes a new series of Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, like they did with Lost in Space.
I think Seaquest DSV wz an homage 2 this show!
Jan3Sun2021
B🇧🇧 dos
Does anyone know that the doctor on the Seaview also went on to play Nells Olsen on Little House?
Sure do, fact Richard Basehart guest started on Little House in "Troublemaker" as the new school teacher Hannabal Applewood. Kevin Hagan who played Doc Baker appeared in Land Of The Giants as Inspector Kobick.
Yep. Same actor, Richard Bull.
Yep! Knew it!
True.
He was a good father.
But his daughter became the antagonist.
22:33 Ski suffering from CTE. He's out of his Vulcan mind!
Notice those ice aliens have computers that were seen in "The Time Tunnel" complex.
Yes. FOX was only too pleased to acquire surplus NASA computers (confirm this online). The Man From UNCLE had also spruced up its last season with recently acquired NASA toys. 48:30
I thought it was Mr Freeze from Batman 😂
Hey, he’s using the gun that Mr. freeze has from Batman. It’s nice to know Mr. freeze found peace from his criminal career helping others and being a good citizen although cold hearted good citizen.
Just like Lost In Space the characters in this show are freezing and sweating at the same time. Also, people like to shoot at first sight of any aliens
Lost and Voyage were produced by the same people and often used the same " monsters ", it's how Irwin Allen saved money. Occasionally the same guest stars were used, but oddly, not all that often.
Commercial pressures here. Voyage had a fascinating initial delivery--- ABC actually upgraded the format from the Pilot's proposal, an updated Saturday Matinee Serial. Shift to Sunday at 7pm for year 2 found the Fox bean counters seeing the show as having to stay alive by corraling as many of the kids as possible away from long run Sunday shows like Lassie and Walt Disney. Episodes aimed at "older audiences" had soft ratings as Season 2 opened. The PTB also determined that the younger audiences wanted "sub stories" not surface ones (latter expensive anyway). The "monster" became ever more important.
Season 3, the Big Switch.
Then, "conflict" feeding "action". Thus, if Seaview was to be in battle every week (tension+action=ratings) the "opposing alien" was hired on as an important personage.
Aussie actor Michael Pate as the alien leader
off of british tv ?! this was on at about mid day on sundays in about 1990!!
So all you do is punch them out and they vanish.
Too bad there aren't any kinescopes from ITV airings in the 1960s...
We had the Channel 4 intro with this episode.
8:47 Kowalski takes a dive!
Cheese cheese cheese but fun!! I think they call things like this ‘accidental comedies.’
the admiral has to tell his boss aliens stole his nuclear warheads
It seems like the Admiral had to do that every third episode or so.
Hey Doc of Little House on the Prairie!
Nah he played Mrs Olsen's husband Nels, Nelly Olsen's Dad.
@@tc9754
Yeah..Nelly is the antagonist...
9:06 Ski KO'd for the 100th time!
11:14 the alien on the right freezer gun jammed!
Hows anything ever work with all those sparks and flames ever other scene.
36:35 This guy is better than Brando!
1:15: " The Seaview rock and roll".
What I always found funny with shows like these where the hell are they reading the data from I see no screens or paper all I see are flashing lights
tony barlow - Ah yes, the somewhat obscure art of reading flashing lights... did they not teach you that in sci-fi school, lol... Spock was expert at programming the Enterprises computer with just the flick of a couple of switches... I guess that's how 60s people imagined it would be in the future... good tho... :)
Had to be a chore cleaning up all that "frost" covering the bridge! Script sort of falls apart after the admiral unfreezes. I'm a little fuzzy on the Fire on Ice thing 😮
A commentator recently mentioned that "fire" was big on the show this season...metaphor here for something? Season 4 opens with "Fires of Death, " and "Attack" that same month as "Flaming Ice" (3-68) has fire underwater all over the place.
00:30 Seaview Rock and Roll!
Wtf are they doing examining Harriman?? 13:33 “he is pure” 😂😂
Now that you mention it...I'll have to think about it...
Micheal Pate makes this episode.
True. Catch him in "Long Live the King ", season 1, as well.
PS. Need to add -- Michael Pate also in season 1's closing episode, The Traitor.
I understand that, by some, this show was cashed voyage to the bottom of the brain. Whatever, I enjoyed the show, and still do.
why do aliens almost always speak English?
-
And all the LIS sounds and orchestra are there too.
Lol
They have to. It's TV.😮
1:09 Second Seaview Rock and Roll!
At 26;53, Dive all Dive! is ordered, next scene the Seaview jumped out of the ocean like it does in a panic. THEN is seen immediately submerged. Pretty fast ship, or bad editing?
Probably a little bit of both.
That WAS a baffling scene. It still gets my attention today. Seaview has supposedly escaped the undersea grotto, then is descending again (?) A point in the scene s favor --- an unusual wide shot from under the Seaview as it "drops" back into the depths. I don't recall finding that in another episode...😮
Thats some odd ice sinking like rocks, Ice is supposed to float isn't it?
Yes, that's from the earlier movie. Ice tumbled down on the Seaview to draw attention to the flaming sky above. Seaview had to dive to clear it. As you know, stock footage continued to be used for the run of the series.
Theodore Sturgeon apparently attempted to "explain" the "plunging ice" in the novelization of the movie. The TV episode "The Sky's On Fire" also attempted something of an "explanation" in one brief scene. Yes, Irwin's critics still attempt to get some mileage out of THIS one.
Season?
Was this shown on BBC 4 ? The British accent...on the intro..
UK Channel 4
lol 400 feet below the ice cap , but periscope only has to rise 5 feet to see topside !
Hmm, never noticed this as a kid but why a 4 star admiral doing going around on a submarine?
The Admiral heads up NIMR, the Nelson Institute of Marine Research. A family "business" that has multiple high level connections. The "science ", "diplomacy" , and investigations are the Admiral s duty. The Seaview also needs a Captain, an Executive Officer (Chip), and more. Pattern here is supplied by the Navy, even though the Seaview is not a Navy sub but ostensibly "civilian run" through a maze of civilian and federal offices.
The original Fly movie
This was terrible....but I loved it.
Jim --- love the show, love your comment.
Just about the most totally bonkers TV show ever made in America.
You undoubtedly never saw Irwin Allen's bonkier show, "Lost in Space!"
@@Titan52berg That show was merely goofy.
As a dedicated fan, I have to concur. But whatta ride.
Why would Mr Freeze need to say my “a reactor with that output would allow us to return to our “ice” planet”
Its supposed to "juice up" his space ship. Still, I get your meaning.
If heat is their enemy, why are they wearing vests?
The same reason we put an esky around a block of ice.
@@kkumi1782 Hmmm...