We're based in India, and I currently use Sony MDR-MV1 headphones to mix Dolby Atmos theatrical releases, doing the final pass in our Dolby Atmos certified mix stage. I work in Dolby Binaural's default mode, but I've had trouble finding support for getting our stage measured here from your website. We're interested in simulating our stage through 360 VME. Can you assist us?
I'm curious how APL's Virtuoso compares here? It allows for stereo and immersive virtual loudspeaker setups, headteacking, loudspeaker and headphone profiles, and uploading .sofa files with personal/ized hrtfs... Maybe with Genelec Aural ID it would be an interesting option?
I do not have a personalized sofa file so I can’t talk about that, but without that there is no comparison. VSX comes surprisingly close, but only with certain mixing rooms. I might get myself Aural ID at some point because I’m really curious. On paper it should give very good results. The data they collect should allow a fairly accurate hrtf.
I tried an earlier version of the Smyth Realizer that was just stereo binauralization. This was before Dolby Atmos, and so it was intended to just reproduce the sound of the two stereo loudspeakers in a studio. Not sure if this is still true, but Smyth used blocked-ear canal measurements for capturing the binaural response. It's an open research topic as to how important the ear canal is for binaural headphone measurement and rendering, since the Sony captures the response near the Tympanic Membrane. Our impression though was that the Smyth system had an uncanny ability to match the sound of acoustic loudspeakers once the measurements had been taken, and the user was now listening in the same space over the Realizer. We found though that if you were to take measurements in one room, then move the playback system to a room with different acoustics, the binaural effect completely fell apart and in fact sounded quite unnatural. I believe in the newer system, with the ability to trim length of the BRIR, you can control this to some effect.
I did not yet have a chance to test the Realiser. But I honestly think the “falling apart” part is primarily because your brain knows that you are not in the studio and cannot consolidate what it sees with what it hears. When I close my eyes, Sony’s system always puts me back right into the studio space. With limitations, of course. Don’t expect to get that experience during a train ride. 😉
I've tried Realiser in a game sfx company and they use Realiser for dolby atmos rough mixing for years before the final mixing with real monitors, and it works pretty well, I'd say the same as Michael's discription of sony's. When I put the headphone on I thought my real sky channel monitor start to play sth however that is totally simulated.
I believe this kind of headphone simulation techniques no matter sony's or realiser's, it's been years and years since it is initally able to cheat human's ears, I really hope the techs can be easily reached by everyone without huge cost. However Dolby/Genelec/Apple 's photo taking method seems to still have a long way to go.
Yes, not even close. If you already are in the ecosystem it might be a reasonable choice, otherwise I would recommend VSX.
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Insane, just insane, I can't wait to test this out. Do you know a way I could have my own ears/head analysed to have my own SOFA HRTF to put in virtuoso ? And if I can do this, will it be close to the Sony 360 VME ? Thanks for your content man, you are my hero
Another wonderful & interesting video 😉👍 Truly exciting and enabling educational possibilities that we could only dream of 30 years ago… Thank You for the “ heads up “ 😅 ( terrible pun, i know ) NB. have you tried embody immersive studio ? i have mixed feelings, but since i am heavily invested in steinberg, and they teamed up with embody, i took the chance…i am still on the fence regarding recommending it, even though the results and workflow are impressive, would enjoy to hear what you think ? all the best & have a great day.
Thanks! 😊 Embody Immerse is ok. I like the deep integration with Nuendo. But I found the personalization option lackluster. Did not work for me. The plugin version is better but not as good as VSX.
how to mix so that the vocal and guitar tracks are in the overhead position. So, when played on a cellphone, speaker and so on, the audio results are clear. please explain
Greetings! Сould you tell me which program to create the file - Dolby Atmos True HD with Dolby Atmos? Dolby Digital + Atmos is a compressed format! Thanks! The program - Mkvtoolnix that merges files does not understand the ADM file format
I honestly don’t know if there are other options but the Dolby Media Encoder should be able to do that. You might also want to check out AWS Mediaconvert.
The measurement system is similar to Logictec's/Ultimate ear measurement process for the in-ear monitors, so Sony's sollution will probably be costly, and time consuming.
This is not directly connected to 360 RA though. If you look at the UI of 360 VME, it does not use the 360 RA speaker layout. But you are right in that it is in the "360 RA" family of technologies.
@@michaelgwagner Yes i see that :) It would be great if they could do a studio package where studios could by or hire there mics and system and then studios could make profiles which the sony people could offer a site where you could go to upload these profiles .. I know they would have the problem of the individual hearing profile lol but might be interesting all the same :)
Hello Michael, Wonderful video! But one small correction... We actually do offer a service to do VME profiles for private studio owners.
Excellent! Thanks for the correction!
We're based in India, and I currently use Sony MDR-MV1 headphones to mix Dolby Atmos theatrical releases, doing the final pass in our Dolby Atmos certified mix stage. I work in Dolby Binaural's default mode, but I've had trouble finding support for getting our stage measured here from your website. We're interested in simulating our stage through 360 VME. Can you assist us?
Excellent
:)
Firesign Theater's infamous "I Think We're All Bozos On This Bus" in 360 audio works great.
I'm curious how APL's Virtuoso compares here? It allows for stereo and immersive virtual loudspeaker setups, headteacking, loudspeaker and headphone profiles, and uploading .sofa files with personal/ized hrtfs... Maybe with Genelec Aural ID it would be an interesting option?
I do not have a personalized sofa file so I can’t talk about that, but without that there is no comparison. VSX comes surprisingly close, but only with certain mixing rooms. I might get myself Aural ID at some point because I’m really curious. On paper it should give very good results. The data they collect should allow a fairly accurate hrtf.
I tried an earlier version of the Smyth Realizer that was just stereo binauralization. This was before Dolby Atmos, and so it was intended to just reproduce the sound of the two stereo loudspeakers in a studio. Not sure if this is still true, but Smyth used blocked-ear canal measurements for capturing the binaural response. It's an open research topic as to how important the ear canal is for binaural headphone measurement and rendering, since the Sony captures the response near the Tympanic Membrane. Our impression though was that the Smyth system had an uncanny ability to match the sound of acoustic loudspeakers once the measurements had been taken, and the user was now listening in the same space over the Realizer. We found though that if you were to take measurements in one room, then move the playback system to a room with different acoustics, the binaural effect completely fell apart and in fact sounded quite unnatural. I believe in the newer system, with the ability to trim length of the BRIR, you can control this to some effect.
I did not yet have a chance to test the Realiser. But I honestly think the “falling apart” part is primarily because your brain knows that you are not in the studio and cannot consolidate what it sees with what it hears. When I close my eyes, Sony’s system always puts me back right into the studio space. With limitations, of course. Don’t expect to get that experience during a train ride. 😉
I've tried Realiser in a game sfx company and they use Realiser for dolby atmos rough mixing for years before the final mixing with real monitors, and it works pretty well, I'd say the same as Michael's discription of sony's. When I put the headphone on I thought my real sky channel monitor start to play sth however that is totally simulated.
I believe this kind of headphone simulation techniques no matter sony's or realiser's, it's been years and years since it is initally able to cheat human's ears, I really hope the techs can be easily reached by everyone without huge cost. However Dolby/Genelec/Apple 's photo taking method seems to still have a long way to go.
Thanks a lot this is the real final total madness love it❤ sorry Michael where you can found a list of studios where to take the measurements?
You need to contact Sony through their website. They started out with three: one in NYC, one in LA and one in Tokyo. I think they have more now.
@@michaelgwagner thanks a lot professor I think this staff can go really deep
I live in Tokyo. Perhaps there is a chance I can get measured here.
Most certainly. 👍
very interesting! have you ever tried sienna / sienna sphere for comparison?
Yes, not even close. If you already are in the ecosystem it might be a reasonable choice, otherwise I would recommend VSX.
Insane, just insane, I can't wait to test this out. Do you know a way I could have my own ears/head analysed to have my own SOFA HRTF to put in virtuoso ? And if I can do this, will it be close to the Sony 360 VME ? Thanks for your content man, you are my hero
I was hoping that you could extract the Sofa out of this but unfortunately you can’t. Genelec’s Aural ID gives you access to the HRTF.
@@michaelgwagner cool to know thanks
Another wonderful & interesting video 😉👍
Truly exciting and enabling educational possibilities that we could only dream of 30 years ago…
Thank You for the “ heads up “ 😅 ( terrible pun, i know )
NB. have you tried embody immersive studio ? i have mixed feelings, but since i am heavily invested in steinberg, and they teamed up with embody, i took the chance…i am still on the fence regarding recommending it, even though the results and workflow are impressive, would enjoy to hear what you think ?
all the best & have a great day.
Thanks! 😊 Embody Immerse is ok. I like the deep integration with Nuendo. But I found the personalization option lackluster. Did not work for me. The plugin version is better but not as good as VSX.
@ thank you for the reply 👍
how to mix so that the vocal and guitar tracks are in the overhead position. So, when played on a cellphone, speaker and so on, the audio results are clear. please explain
Putting things exclusively overhead will always create a challenge.
COOL!
I agree. 😉
Greetings! Сould you tell me which program to create the file - Dolby Atmos True HD with Dolby Atmos? Dolby Digital + Atmos is a compressed format! Thanks! The program - Mkvtoolnix that merges files does not understand the ADM file format
I honestly don’t know if there are other options but the Dolby Media Encoder should be able to do that. You might also want to check out AWS Mediaconvert.
The measurement system is similar to Logictec's/Ultimate ear measurement process for the in-ear monitors, so Sony's sollution will probably be costly, and time consuming.
Can't talk to the costs. The process itself took 5 minutes, but there is of course the whole logistics of getting to the measurement place.
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎊🎊🎊🎊🎊🎊
That’s a lot of emojis. 😅
It's such a shame that tiddle have dropped sony 360
This is not directly connected to 360 RA though. If you look at the UI of 360 VME, it does not use the 360 RA speaker layout. But you are right in that it is in the "360 RA" family of technologies.
@@michaelgwagner Yes i see that :) It would be great if they could do a studio package where studios could by or hire there mics and system and then studios could make profiles which the sony people could offer a site where you could go to upload these profiles .. I know they would have the problem of the individual hearing profile lol but might be interesting all the same :)