The Greatest Racebike of all time... by far
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ย. 2024
- This is the story of the Honda NSR500, the greatest grand prix racebike of all time
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Spencer , Lawson , Rainey , Schwantz , Doohan , Gardner ... Thanks for the memories !
Sir , I could not have said it better my self !!!!!!
I remember one particular race where 5 of those 6 you mentioned (before Doohan) all swapped for the lead multiple times, and was the greatest race I ever saw, that I will never forget. I will have to try find it online, but can't remember the name of the track or exact year.
U forgot Rossi. He was the last 2 stroke GP500 champion in a Honda NSR. And Alex Criville the 1999 champion that kind of forgotten.
@@Feral6-h3g I was at the 1989 Aussie GP, and that same sorta thing happened continuously during the race. Add in Niall McKenzie and Randy Mamola, Christian Sarron. Memories.
BTW, I was there the next year, too. I think Doohan won.
You forgot Roberts
Not only was the NSR the most blistering bike over the longest time, its still probably one of the most beautiful motorcycles ever made, and its even better with its clothes off!
Amen🤑🦾🔥🏁
Not more beautiful than the Cagiva C594.
916?
@@stk0308 He didnt say it was the most beautiful. Learn to read.
longest time? I thought that was the MV Agusta
The close firing order on the big bang NSR was meant to provide a break in the power pulse. The power pulse break allowed the rear tire some "rest" to regain traction.
Very similar to the WSBK V2 Ducati domination when the pulses gave more rest than the straight four competition..
Doohan actually switched back to the old firing order and started winning bigly. all the electronics is bs...sure cream always rises but free podiums isn't racing
Doohan switched back when lower octane unleaded fuel was used..
Interesting. I've often wondered if the extra crank revolution "rest" for 4-stroke MX bikes allows the rear tire to slow and regain grip as opposed to the every-crank-revolution firing of the 2-stroke.
@@johntomasik1555 2 strokes are the gold standard
I couldn't agree more with the point that you made about putting today's fastest riders on these old bikes and seeing how they would perform. Back then a 1/4 inch on the throttle was the difference between a brilliant pass.....or ending up highsiding into a rhubarb bush 200' off the track, especially with those TZ 750s, they were insane and the riders were a completely different breed of rider compared to today.
I remember Kenny Roberts on his Yamaha, I was fascinated with his dominance at the time.
Roberts and his protégées were something else. Eddie Lawson and John Kocinski were near-unparalleled in 500 and 250cc bikes, respectively.
That was obviously a different era and I LOVE the stories from those days. Like how the engineers would uncrate the bikes from Japan, take a quick look over it, and just immediately start taking a Sawzall to the swingarm without even doing any laps.
Don't forget 😮No Electronic's not even ABS brakes n those were crazy men Hauling Ass on Wild Fast Bikes Super Bikes were Fun to ride on the street also
It seemed his biggest problem was whether his tire would last for the full race😅
@@johndef5075 Some things never change.
the 2 strokes were the GOLDEN days. I remember a feature for TV in Australia where Mick Doohan (retired) and Casey Stoner swapped bikes... Mick was clearly bored on the newer 4 stroke, while Casey was visibly shook, COMPLETELY different animals. Makes you wonder how they even fit their balls in those pants :D
That's saying something considering that Casey Stoner mastered the Ducati that Rossi could not.
@@paulgrey8028I wager Rossi succumbed to pressure on that. Maybe too much riding on it all in an ego sense. Stoner ran with it perfectly
The Japanese crew said Mick son don't use the crutch too much when you are riding ok, that was on stoner's bike and when Mick son went to give the bike a handful of throttle,the sensors and electronic aids said no way,the bike was not happy when Doohan wanted to give it a hiding, stoner's bike is tame compared to doohans two stroke animal
To me, once the 500 two strokes stopped racing and the characters that tamed them retired, Moto GP as it was renamed, became boring. As an annual visitor to the Isle of Man TT and the North West 200, I'm guaranteed excitement and real men riding on the edge!
I don’t know about every rider but I know Mick Dooan the Australian who rode for Honda broke every bone in his body which ultimately led to his retirement and he isn’t the only one, a big price to pay just so people aren’t too bored, Isle of Man TT will be banned eventually in fact all combustion engine racing will probably be phased out I’m not saying I agree with that but if the governments are going to virtue signal about emissions racing should be the first to go because it’s totally unnecessary.
I'm going to my 1st IoM race in 2024! And I kinda stopped watching MotoGP when Rossi retired.
@@aural_supremacy Stopping pollution isn't virtue signalling mate, if you think it is , educate yourself. Everything changes eventually...
Agree .
Youve missed 20 years of spectacular rivavlries, racing, legends. Gotta get out of the past, you are missing the present.
Rossi/Biaggi was far greater than sheene/roberts. Rossi is the greatest in racing history.
MotoGP has been the closest it has ever been. In the 80s the gap between the first two even went up to one minute. So yeah, it's a perspective thing
........and too boring to watch!
@@jamesadams2334 Must be some modern definition of boredom.
@@donlynch8285 Don't bother arguing with nostalgia addicts.
@@jamesadams2334 then don't watch it. it doesn't need you and your disingenuous and missinformed criticism.
Yes, it is close, since riders matter less than machines these days. Moto GP is going the way of F1. Back then rider skill was very important. These days it is all about tuning the traction control and aero.
One racing series that is still exciting is BSB. You never know who will come out in top, week in and week out. And I chalk that up to lack of TC.
The Honda Interceptor was when I fell in love with bikes. The full fairing, the colors, and the V-4. Was a beautiful machine.
Oh yeah. I'd been a Yammy rider, but that Interceptor made me a Honda fan again, as I'd originally been as a teen on an Elsinore 125.
I owned a 3rd generation VFR years ago and regret losing it even now. Very best motorcycle I ever owned.
I briefly had an ns400r. I so wish I never sold it. What a gorgeous bike.
The interceptors were cool. I remember the Yamaha fjs of the time as well. I ended up with an 89 vmax. A bucket list bike for me.
@@spacecat7247 i loved the FJ
The intro to this video kinda cracked me up, as an f1 fan it was completely identical to how people speak about modern f1, worse racing machines that are too aerodynamically focused to create a good spectacle etc etc etc. And the ending was the same aswell just like in f1 the advancements are so minuscule now it seems impossible to create something capable of dethroning the kings of the past but that sentiment is the same in every sport until one day the right machine comes around and just so happens to be paired with the right driver/rider and boom utter domination. Sure theres not the 1s a lap difference in performance between machines which is what makes the utterly dominant riders/drivers so amazing the consistency and the level at which they perform week in week out is just mind blowing.
One of my most enduring memories is of watching Kevin Schwantz podium or bust racing style. I remember seeing him on one occasion getting held up by a back-marker. The camera zoomed in as he finally got past on the exit of a turn, back wheel spinning, front wheel in the air and turned round on his bike to give the other guy a certain well known hand gesture to make his feelings clear. To a teenage bike fan the level of skill on display in Moto GP was just awe inspiring.
Schwantz was a mad man on a 2 stroke. He stated in an interview how much he loved 2 strokes over 4 strokes. Him and Rainey battling at Suzuka was one of the best races ever IMHO.
@@stevel6939 Many years ago I was standing at the parts counter at a Honda shop and that suzuka race was on their tv. One of the greatest gp battles I have ever seen, I was standing there in awe with my mouth open going these guys are insane. I have tried to find that race on vcr, dvd, youtube, and I cannot find it. I would really like to watch it again.
fucq yeah!
Barry Sheen did the same gesture to Kenny Roberts at the British Grand Prix when he overtook him. Roberts won that fantastic race, Sheen a very close second.
@@cbcacbca Lol yeah that was funny as fuck and made even funnier by Murray Walker saying Sheene was waving at him . ln all fairness to the guy he couldn;t say he was giving him the wanker sign on live tv 😀
Valentino’s last 500cc win was on a bike with 168hp and that was considerably lower than a wsbk at the time.
There’s absolutely zero chance a 1000cc 4 stroke with 300hp would be rideable without electronic aids.
Indeed. In fact all the old riders have said exactly the same thing when discussing the modern bikes.
@@StefanMedici With that in mind i don't understand why those that say to remove electronic aids are yapping about.
@@StefanMedici Hmm! Quite, though I wonder if Messrs., Hailwood or Sheene would've given them a go?
As an Aussie, I recall GP500 racing well. I worked in TV at the time and got to watch several of the local races either as a tech remotely or at the track I was simply gobsmacked at the ability and fearlessness of these guys. Remember Doohan riding with a broken leg and Gardiner at the first Philip Island?
The last race I ever watched as an excited kid was when Rainey crashed out at Misano. It changed for me then both as a fan and a rider and car racer.
Sorry to correct you but racing was going on at phillip island way way before gardner etc , my old man was racing there before i was born in the sixties .
@@Yoda-em5mt I suspect he meant the first PI MotoGP race ;)
You'd have thought Yoda would know these things....😉@@essentialmix1606
The guts and commitment these races have is astonishing. Brutality is just a single mistake away. I grew up in the 60's and 70's watching racecars and motorcycles kill almost every weekend.
I was a big fan of Jackie Stewart for obvious reasons.
I'm pretty sure it was a local station (Ch 7?) who pioneered live on-bike cameras. In fact, I think it was the doomed V-Four four-stroke, and Gardner was riding. Early 80s? I 63 now.
Maybe the bikes of the 2 stroke era were more exciting but to call motogp, especially this season, “boring” is somewhat absurd. It was a great season with numerous winners and close races
You have a point - recently saw a video of one of the 500GPs at Hockenheim with Doohan etc riding. He won by over 10s, possibly 17s but can’t recall the exact margin.
@@troy45uk sounds like F1 doesn’t it 😕
The greatest era in racing there ever was or will be. It's not just the machines, the riders weren't under half the media/manufacturer pressures they are now. So the riders then rode wild bikes and lived pretty wild lifestyles. The perfect era for involved, riders and fans. I can still remember the emotion of sitting on the Rothmans NSR500s and NSR250s at the Day of Champions. I knew it was special then. I raced a tuned NS400 triple for 2 seasons, yes I thought I was Spencer and Lawson, but won nothing.
I love this kind of honesty, cheers mate.
I had one of those, but raced an RZ. I loved that NS, I wish I never sold it.
@@PerryHowell-h9v I sold my NS about 3 years ago now. It felt a bit uncomfortable to ride at 50 years old.
Nothing beats the sound of some high reving two stroke engines and also the smell is unbeatable. I was lucky to see them race in the late seventies and early eighties at the Assen TT track. Our farm was only 25 miles away from the track.
Oooh, oooh that smell!
Unfortunately I've never experienced that particular variety, though I assume it's similar to the "swarm of angry wasps" noise that nitro & gas RC cars (also 2 stroke) output
Its a damn shame that honda has forgotten its world wide history making two strokes ! Motocross &Road racing
Honda CR-500 - best Motocross engine ever made
One of my mates is currently rebuilding his NSR125. Only been down a few months but before it was it was an absolute rocket. 100mph on a 125 is insane. Not surprised it's big brother has the reputation it does
Any 250cc Race bike from the 90's would put a liter bike to shame, even when we had R1's coming out the 250 GP bikes where a different beast altogether. Now, the likes of the Rainey, Schwantz, Doohan, Lawson et al were indeed a different breed, the NSR V2 was the beast from hell but which 2 stroke 500cc GP bike wasn't?
I also have a 96 NSR125 , crazy bike , im rebuilding it currently , crazy thing 180kmh on a 125cc
@@va7entino46 Not going to brag too much but I had a tzr50 with an 80cc engine that did 150km/h
Gear that sucker right and you can see 120 - just have a LOT of space. 😃
I remember my dad owned an NSR250 (The street version) when I was still a baby and it's still the wildest bike He ever had. I really want to get one so he can have the nostalgia with it but finding one that at least doesn't cost the same as brand new YZ450F is hard enough these days
Today MotoGP is not worse than "the good old days" races. It is just different. But is is still breathtaking action with shoulder-to-shoulder fighting on tracks with speeds, what were only in dreams in 80-s and 90-s. And i am not touching safety side.
I've always liked cars more than bikes. But when I was about 12 years or so I built a plastic model of an NSR250 or 500 and I've loved that era of motorcycles ever since.
Cool )
Saying MotoGP is boring and there is little passing is a WILD take. Definitely agree that Moto3 has the most exciting racing right now, but MotoGP is as close and competitive as it has ever been
Agree. The 500cc class had as many boring races as the modern era, and as many exciting races as the modern era. 125cc and Moto3 have always been the exciting ones, although the 250cc racing was much more exciting than Moto 2
WILD take.
@@westers1514 Agreed, particularly historically with Moto2, however this season so far I have been very impressed with Moto2, and might even say it has been my favourite class. The new Michelin tyres have completely transformed it, and they are consistently getting close exciting races.
The technology in the modern MotoGP bikes is phenomenal.
Correct. Just look at the qualifying times and race times over the years. When you see that we now have more riders qualified within one second event after event, compare this with the qualifying times (between the same events) over the last 10 or 20 years en how many riders qualified within one second.
It is quite sad that 2-t is gone. I still dream of owning a RG500 or RD500. One of these days...
Yes, these two bikes in the garage 😍
Need deep pockets ! 25000 each these days. If you can find one that wasn’t crashed or blown to bits. Best bikes ever though
My first AMA Superbike race came during the 1984 AMA National at Laguna Seca, scheduled just after the 1984 Belgian Grand Prix. This National event was during the MotoGp summer break, when Roberts rode his Yamaha OW69, Randy Mamola on is Gamma RG500, Mike Baldwin riding the HRC F1 bike and Freddy Spencer on the year old NS500. Spencer crashed during practice, but the F1 race was highlighted by the other riders pulling wheelies while exiting turns 1 thru 3, lap after lap, and of course Roberts was doing wheelies thru the corkscrew, which he did during the combined Superbike/F1 practice sessions. It was an event to remember.
@@BobbyOfEarth Yeah, wheelies, nowadays they have anti wheelie system, what a shame, this was so nice to watch, wheelies during the race.
I had the RG500 while still on my P plates back in the late 80's & 90's I up graded from an RD350 LC that was so tame in comparison
I still have the RG but its crashed with front end damage ( not my fault )& I have a hip replacement But WORTH IT !
I was there, PR manager of Suzuki GB in the early eighties when Sheene came back. I then married into one of those racing families. My then brother in law was Gardner's crew chief and went onto be Schwantz's too. The bikes and the atmosphere of GP racing back then was astonishing. I even wrote a book about those times called Barry Sheene and my part in his downfall.
Dont bother with the title or author name then.
@@forddriver8827he stated the title. "Barry Sheene and my part in his downfall"
Ian Burgess
Oooooo good for you
When it comes to motorcycle racing, Mick Doohan is the King of Kings.
Nobody else could drift a 2 stroke like Mick!
🏆
I’m a huge Doohan fan. But i always wonder what if Schwantz had something else than the Suzuki, who was far behind the others bikes.
@@rogerchtarponne4968
He was a beast!
He was the Wheelie King.
💪
th-cam.com/video/NqlMYf6md_8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=pfPEj_Xj_lt3RyxM
Side ways Randy Mimola could also
Gary McCoy could give him a run for his money as could Freddie Spencer.
The Rainey and Schwantz era was the pinnacle of the motorcycle racing imo.
Roberts vs. Sheene definitely didn't suck.
Gardner, Rainey, Doohan, Spencer, Lawson, Mamola ... etc etc. The 80s was the best era of all. And you could probably include Sheene and Roberts at the end of their careers.
Dude, you can't just say those two without mentioning the others. At LEAST throw Doohan in there, but c'mon, Gardner, Lawson, etc as well.
@@JoeLucero-r5l Roberts vs Spencer also great.
And Spencer was racing in 500 and 250 simultaneously at one point?@@MeYou-yz2yz
Attending Moto GP at Laguna Seca from the beginning to the end. I seen some fantastic racing and lots of changes. I feel fortunate to live 4 hours away. Good memories!
I went to one in the late 80s & one in early 2010s …Complete Difference in Bikes
@@bobbyblenio4571 Indeed!
Number of years ago at Laguna Seca. They had demonstration race of electric bikes. I said then to a friend. That is the future!
nope, electric will kill the sport........5X as boring as Moto GP.@@larrys.3992
The Smokers were awesome to watch. So much could happen within a race & they were always on the edge. MotoGP today is a snooze fest where 1 or 2 bikes checkout and the race is over on lap 3.
The 80's? I watched Kenny Robert's and Yvon Duhamel in the early 70's...now that was raw racing.
Green meanies!!!!
The Isle of Man TT is never boring. Traditionally Honda used to start planning for these races a full year ahead.
Followed the 125, 25 & 500cc 2-stroke racng back in the day. I rode small 2-stroke street bikes, so I loved the 125cc races in particular. Incredible max speeds (of 145mph from the race 125's) and fantastic tight racing.
My first street bike was RD 125 twin 2 stroke . Fun bike
@@gcrain464Crain-rd6hf Had a White and blue one. Loved that bike.
My first time going to the local dragstrip was in 1966, and it is 1/8 mile, the bikes that were winning were Triumphs, I started riding motorcycles in the 60s and some were very fast, all you needed were balls & brakes, there were no electric Rider modes ect...just the ignition switch and the spark plugs, my 6th motorcycle when I was 14 years old was a Kawasaki H-1, all my friends said I would be dead in a week, Nope!! subbed 🏍
Both of my older brothers had H1s. Me & my twin had RDs.
9:27 they were actually OVER 200hp. They got dynoed at Jerez in '98 and somehow the press got access to the numbers, they were published in a spanish motorbike magazine. I remember and the Yamaha put out 203hp, the Honda 207hp. And with 135kg of weight. Insane.
makes you wanna ride one doesn't it 🤘😎
@@jerry-xi4gi I don't know man, I'm pretty sure for regular riders like me it will be a very bad experience. Maybe just a couple of runs down an airstrip... and even then I'm pretty sure i will flip it :P
@@Angel_EU34 as would I...but what a way to go🤣🤘😎
bro, with 500cc that's so insane :D
Few mastered 2 stroke like Joey Dunlop & Mick Doohan keeping in mind the tracks & road racing courses called for fearless commitment knowing an accident will be life changing or worse. I appreciate there are many other riders, Agostini and Hailwood come to mind, who also dominated two-wheel racing at various times, but I am an Irishman who calls Australia home so Joey & Mick it is for me. Shout out to Casey Stoner who is another story and period of racing all together.
Saarinen the forgotten hero...
Yeah, Wayne Gardner rode like a complete girl when he became World Champion. Edjit.
Yer Maun #3 indeed !
Those drag races between the Aussies and Americans at hockenheim are still fresh in my mind. I wish I could’ve seen vale race these guys from the 80s and early 90s. And Sheene as well
I was a teenager throughout the 80's and a die hard GP fan, 80's and 90's racing was so engaging, I never missed a race on tv or at Phillip Island. I road a Yamaha RZ500 and I even managed to convince my girlfriend to get on the back of that little rocket a few times.
Way to completely ignore the most dominating forerunner and all-time benchmark - the Yamaha TZ750 which made more power than any of these in it's original form and was completely unrideable except in the hands of King Kenny (his bike was detuned even) because tire, frame, braking, and suspension technology was not up to the ability of this engine.
There's no way a tz750 made more power than the last of the 500s
Not a 500. Superbike and Not a chance It would beat a 500 gp bike on the same track with same rider!
Barry Sheen could ride one too.
Interesting video once again, I love your channel bart, and I know it's all about the nostalgia for a mainly elder audience. However the bashing of today's racing is completely unwarranted. The "good old days" are still here my friend. There are overtakes constantly in MotoGP, and there are 7 or 8 race winners in a season nowadays. Just because most of them are on Ducatis, the races are still epic to watch! Don't forget that in the magical 90s Doohan won 5 years in a row - what's more boring than knowing the winner ahead of time? (Case in point: F1)
Having electronic aids just means they are even closer to the edge every time, and they are riding a LOT faster. To say they would be bad on an old bike is absolutely ridiculous... Of course they would be if they've never ridden one. Do you think Schwantz could ride with his bloody shoulder scraping on the ground like today's riders?
You know what, he probably could. He could adapt to whatever is possible at the time, just like Pecco or Martin could adapt.
Nah. MotoGP is a yawnfest compared to the 500s. I stopped watching when the 2-strokes were constructively phased out.
@@cadman1973 if you stopped watching, how do you know?
@@hmarciglad you said this 😅. You couldn’t be more right. There has never been more different race winners and the field has never been so close. Just look at qualifying times from back then to now
The 500cc era was all about throttle control and was considered the " wild rodeo " of modern times .
Gardner once famously smirked and said " you give it just the slightest bit more ,to go faster and it sent you to the moon " while twisting his right hand subconscious ly on TV .... They knew the consequences of that all to well .
They were " Hair Trigger " machines that were 130 kgs , no electronics or aero . Pure ability or it spat you off in a heartbeat .
@@hmarciBecause I watched it long enough to know it was boring.
Those old 2-strokes were CRAZY! The riders were crazier who still managed to master the riding such difficult and ultra powerful machines with absolutely no electronic riding aid!
I am lucky to have witnessed the rise and rise of Mick Doohan - he was so talented that he could qualify in almost any position on the grid and still make it to the podium - mostly the top one! For me, Mick Doohan was one Aussie whom I liked more than Shane Warne (the GOD of CRICKET from Australia!!) - and that's really something special!!
He was the one who managed to master both the big-bangs and screamers!
Rossi is revered by a large number of people also because he was one guy who could successfully transition from the 2-stroke era to the 4-stroke era and still became Champion..That was no easy feat...
Rossi in his prime is out of this world... People say marquz is crazy but Rossi was twice talented and crazy in his prime than marquz ever was... That's why Rossi is greatest ever
What you said in your first statement in the video can also be said about production bikes today as well. For me, the 4-stroke GP bikes are boring today, but not so much because of the engines, but rather the electronics as you stated. Yes, I'm an old guy and I do miss the good old days of 2-stroke racing.
It's winter where i live but this video inspired me to go for a really chilly ride on my Honda
You meet the nicest people on a Honda!
For me it began in the 1960's. Great bikes.
Completely agree that Moto3 is currently the most exciting racing. Will David Alonso become the next Pedro Acosta next year? It will be interesting to see if Pedro Acosta on the KTM can become the next Marc Márquez next year, or if Marc Márquez on the Ducati can become Marc Márquez again. Fermín Aldeguer added some excitement to the end of the Moto2 season. Can he carry that into next season? Eight Ducatis this year seemed a bit much. It will be good if VR46 goes to Yamaha in 2025 and Yamaha can start getting back in the game again. Might be a long time before Honda gets back in the game again. Maybe no one will be able to beat Ducati as long as Gigi Dall’Igna is there.
Nobody cares about GP these days, its like ice skating compared to 2 stroke.
100% agree with you, Moto 3 is just brilliant.
Great video! One comment: I remember the Big Bang engine being touted as slightly less horsepower, but much more ridable. The tire was more likely to grip than to spin up and cause a high side, which also meant a wider usable powerband. At least that's how I remember it explained in the magazines and/or race commentary.
Mick Doohan refused to use that engine as he said he wouldn't change while he was still winning. He also knew being able to use the screamer effectively with his manual clutch / rear brake traction control system gave him an advantage. Those bikes also suffered understeer which is why he would stand it up and smoke the tyre out of some corners. Casey Stoners 2007 800cc was the closest thing since to an NSR500 screamer.
TBH, I enjoy the exhaust note of the Moto _GP_ machines, but miss the wild riding and taming of the 2strokes. I admit I'm a HONDA man through and through, but could recognize an outstanding piece of work when Lawson won on his Yamaha...then on his Cagiva...when Rainey reigned supreme on his Yamaha (thinking how sublime he would be if he'd only shift to Honda).... Seeing how close Schwantz would come on his Suzuki. My favourite riders back then were Wayne Gardner and Mick Doohan...
What we need in Moto _GP_ , is all the electronic gadgetry removed. Give us the 4stroke thunder with well over 200BHP, coupled with the handling of those glorious days of the 500cc 2strokes.
All very true, but I fondly look back at the huge rivalry between Suzuki and Yamaha on square four and straight four twostrokes riden by Sheene and Roberts in the late 70's.
As one of the 12 Flat Track fans... thanks for this video. I am particularly gratified that you made the important point that modern MotoGP has eliminated the need for so many rider skills that it is no longer comparable to "the good old days." As one who watched Roberts, Mamola, Spencer, Lawson, Rainey, Schwantz and many more American riders when they dominated the sport, at tracks like Laguna Seca, Daytona, and even Silverstone and Donnington, the most obvious change from American dominance comes from the end of riding style pioneered here by the likes of those men. To start, Roberts (and let's credit Steve Baker) began that dominant period, and what they brought to the European scene was the skill set coming from Flat Track in particular. The only reason the European and Australian riders caught up is because many would train at Kenny Robert's ranch, or they duplicated that kind of dirt track riding back home so that they could apply those skills the way America's best riders did. But the final death knell was the computer controlled machine that ended any need to tame a wild stallion of a motorcycle the way it had previously been required. Today's riders are good, no doubt. But as clearly stated in this video, they couldn't handle the old machinery because they have never had to learn the subtleties of throttle and braking control, without the aid of modern technology. They never have to steer with the rear wheel, totally by feel. I went to precisely one MotoGP at COTA some years ago. I was bored to death. I've not paid any attention to it since.
The YZR500 was first with most of the innovations you are crediting to the NSR, and if not for all of the fast riders (mostly American) retiring by 1994 Doohan and the NSR would not have been anywhere near as dominant. If you look at the results over the years it was back and forth Yamaha and Honda with Yamaha dominating from 78 until the ping pong started in 83.
If you lift out Doohan's dominance over a weak field for those 5 seasons it is a very close back and forth matchup, which is really the reason for so much exciting racing of that era. Both brands were really in it to win it with a real chance and it shows in the intense fighting. Add in Schwantz as the Suzuki wildcard and it makes for an era of the best racing ever on 2 wheels.
Came here to mention the Yam, which is conspicuous in it's absence from this video, But you got it covered...
Woulda coulda shoulda.
@@ivanjulian2532 Wow! Are you always this ignorant? You might want to study up a bit, because history shows that the NSR did the woulda coulda shoulda for most of it's history. If you had just bothered to read a little bit. It helps your brain. I promise.
Winning 10 out of 26 titles is not exactly domination when it's either you or one other brand for most of that time. You see how that works?
Plus the 'NSR500' was just a label on a machine that was completely reinvented every few years. But you knew that already. Right?
Good post, very true.
@@ivanjulian2532 Hardly. You are thinking of the brief era when Doohan dominated as the totality of Honda performance. The whole rivalry started in 1983 for Honda with Freddie Spencer against Eddie Lawson and Kenny Roberts on the Yamaha. Maybe you've heard of them? If not you should study up so you can drop in here with something intelligent to say next time.
Yeah it's boring best part is the grid girls and they want to get ride of them. I haven't watched a race in a long time. However, RSD Bagger Series and Hooligan are AWESOME! Close racing on street bikes with true innovation and riders at a level that is unbelievable...imagen racing a friggin 650lb touring bike with 200hp and being only 4 sec's a lap slower than the SuperSport class! It's like the old days of AMA racing during the late 70's and early 80's. Great vid.
BSB best series to watch at the moment and Road Racing and the TT.
Fall asleep during the 2023 season? The two strokes were amazing, i still ride one, but the current racing with the sprints are very entertaining. If you are a Jack Miller supporter then I understand but man the current racing is wild!
"So little passing in motogp" *cries in f1 fan*
My thoughts exactly… It’s only just getting competitive again & the regulations are about to change.
I raced against Schwantz in an 8 hour endurance race at TWS. If you know you know. The man was insanely accurate, left me holding my hotdog in turn 10. Him and Blake were getting ready for the Suzuka in Japan. for the record his team came in fourth!
You raced with My friends Ronnie Lunsford ( R.I.P. ) Mark Campise , & Rusty Allen . Schwantz was one the greatest. It’s a shame TWS is gone now. I did one of the final track days there in 2017 on my 94 F2 .
Totally agree, MotoGP has become boring. I even fall asleep sometimes watching the race. Now you can see
more than 15 riders within one second on Saturday's qualifying.
Same, Moto3 is 10x better to watch
@RobertJohnson-nx3fo Because a few years back, and especially with the 500 cc bikes, the bikes were more difficult to ride and you can differentiate better the great riders from the good riders.
I would agree for most of the last seasons in MotoGP but tbh I really enjoyed 2023 and 2024 so far and I am fairly satisfied with the number of overtakes
In 1986 I first heard, then saw a Honda NSR400R screaming through the cobblestone streets of Rothenberg W. Germany. It's an instant in time I'll never forget.
I aways watch Moto3 first eventually I get around to the MotoGP race, Brad Binder on the KTM is still a hoot. I liked that you showed the Colombian rookie David Alonso when mentioning Moto3, the most exciting rider on two wheels!
No such thing and an NSR400R. There's an NS400R though.
@@cadman1973 Very well, I can't be held responsible for how many Rs Honda uses in it's nomenclature.
@@jfu5222 The NS400R and NS500, like the MVX250 which you've probably never encountered, are V3s, while the NSR500 is a V4.
@@cadman1973 I have seen the Honda V-3 400 in Europe and at home in Minnesota, there are a few grey imports out of Canada. A friend had an NS400R, but that was years ago. I don't recall seeing an NS500, but there are a couple of Suzuki 500 Gamma square fours in town.
@@jfu5222The NS500 was race only.
I owned an NSR400 TRIPLE , in nsw,Australia. It was by far one of the quickest excellerating bikes ive ridden.
yes ..remember these guys and dont forget fast freddie .. love those 2 strokes!!
1. Honda quit GP bike racing because the FIM limited the number of cylinders and gearbox ratios the bikes could have and there was no way to competitive with a four stroke. Honda could have built a V6 or a V8 (or even a V5) but the rules prohibited it so the NR was an effort to circumvent those rules.
2. The 'Big Bang' motors were not about acceleration or power. Dangerous high sides were all too common in that era and the 'Big Bang' motors were sort of a primitive attempt at, wait for it... traction control.
3. I love two strokes. I started riding and racing two strokes in the late 60's. I loved the 500GP era. But data shows that racing in the MotoGP era is closer than at any time prior. More passing, smaller margins of victory, the field is closer together, and there are generally more different riders on the podium across a season that at any time in the past. Mat Oxley has looked at the data and written extensively about it.
Awesome vid man, great journalism. I remember those days, Kevin Schwartz being the first to slide the front as well as the rear wheel. Wouldn’t you love to have one of those in your garage 😜
If you think MotoGP is currently boring because there are not many overtakes, then perhaps you need to watch some
BSB... No traction or wheelie control, great racing
REAL racing!
Thank you Bart for helping me get through winter in upstate NY. Your documentaries are some of my favorites!!!
Rothmans livery is a legend
Great video. For me, the glory years of GP’s were the late 80’s and 90’s. I think they need to get rid of traction control and ride height devices they have today. Remember F1 in 1992 the William driven by Mansell was so dominant that F1 banned active suspension. It’s still not allowed to this day. A few years later they also got rid of traction control.
For me it’s time to change the rules.
Get rid of all these aero bits stuck on the bike, limit the electronics and do away with active suspension. The manufacturers will continue to leave if they don’t do something.
1990s was boring as fuck in Grand Prix and if anything it was second tier compared to wsbk
Hey Bart thanks for the video, amazing memories...;D It would be worthwhile doing a short on the crazy research and development bikes that Ron Haslem was riding for the Elf Honda program. He was an absolute Boss, and was still placing 10-15th each week on a bike that came from outer space that was different each week. Cheers!
Met Freddie when we were both about 12-13 at Mid-South Honda in Shreveport.. Him and his dad had his bike trailered heading to race. My Aunt knew the family well and babysat Freddie occasionally when he was younger.
Races in the 80s / 90s were not always close at all. Doohan used to win by huge margins. Today, motogp is super close. And anyone in the top ten can win, even top 12, previously unheard of in the sport. No one gets lapped anymore either, very common back in the day. Ducati dominates? Sure, but for a period in the 90s we used to call GP the Honda NSR cup too. But that Rainey, Lawson, Doohan era was the best, but not for reasons of close racing. The livery, the looks of the bikes (todays bikes are ugly imo), the riders weren't pint sized jockeys. And yes the tech is too much these days and the aero is making overtaking harder. But there;s still more overtaking than people are saying.
The amount of skill it took to ride those wild beasts is insane. Many of the younger people will never know. I rode 250s and 500s were a completely different level. Madness.
The big bang motor was about lateral grip, not acceleration. That is why the XR750 worked...
Yea I don't understand the dig towards flat track in general, all the American talent during the 500 era cut their teeth flattracking lol
@@eddieproctor711 Not sure what you mean.
I went to Phillip Island GP from 1987 onwards, I live 1 hour down the road. The 500's and the men that rode them were so enthralling. I had an RZ500 too.
Good times
I was very fortunate enough to watch late 80 and 90s 500cc GP races live, both on TV and on track. I don't care what others say, those guys were my 'superheros' and 500cc and to a degree 250 cc 2 stroke racing bikes were 'proper' racing bikes. Always talented riders showed through, riders being able to override and compensate for bike's short comings. Just think of Kevin Schwantz. That is why I still rate Valentino Rossi more highly than Marc Marquez as Rossi raced and won on 2 stroke 500cc. I pretty much stopped watching GP bike racing from mid 2000s when all the bikes became 4 strokes and all my 'superheros' retired. Only Rossi and Casey Stoner made me watch few races. Now GP bikes don't look like bikes, more like spaceship with 2 wheels with all those wings and electronic wires and gadgets everywhere.
Rossi will be the biggest thing in bike racing in our time, he is obviously a legend...
As a legend he is ahead of Marquez, is he faster than Marquez I think not.
Marquez is unliked by many perhaps for good reason but see any top level racer interviewed & they say he is the greatest....
I remember going to a moto go in the seventies at Assen in Holland and will never forget the screaming sound of the two strokes, and as a bonus a demo of a benelli six with special exhaust going around the track, great times
I have been watching motorcycle racing all my life, since the early seventies anyway, I grew up watching Kenny Roberts, Barry Sheene, and all the MotoGP since then. The 500's were awesome! But often one rider won by half a lap, and the field was very spread out at the end of the race. Remember the Doohan title years? Anyway, I have to disagree with you that the current racing is boring. I don't like one manufacturer being so dominant, but that will get sorted out. I liked the pre-winglet and no lowering era better than now, but it's about enjoying it the way it is, not being upset about the way it isn't. Also, flat-track racing is amazing. Maybe you need to watch it sometime.
MotoGP IS boring! Stopped watching almost 20 years ago.
Agreed,Motogp is exciting as ever, Honda fans upset that ducati is dominating field so they moan
Me too but since the mid sixties when I also bought my first bike, the first thing I ever bought from money I earned. I was 14. I just watched the 2024 GP at Jerez and man what a race and what finish, anyone who finds that boring needs to wake up.
@@jamesadams2334 So if you haven't watched it for 20 years how do know it's boring? Have you just made a decision based on what you hear and read rather than what you see?
I attended all 3 500gp races in South Africa back in the 80s at the old Kyalami circuit and remember Freddie crashing when his NSR500 carbon fibre rear wheel collapsed on him during practise. Spectators took pieces of the wheel for keepsakes and there was a request on the PA to return them as it was such new tech the Honda guys wanted the pieces for investigation..
My first GP was silverstone 1979 and my bike broke down on the way home 😢
It’s fun to see guys my age (50s) panning modern racing simply because it’s different than what they watched when they were in their 20s.
Today’s riders can’t ride? I don’t recall ever seeing Doohan, Rainey, Spencer, or Schwantz get their elbows on the deck after backing their bikes in, putting their rear tire back on the ground from braking AFTER they started turning.
You think there are too many electronics on today’s bikes? Then bikes from the 80s should have only been carbureted, used bias ply tires, and had no fairings on them.
If you think racing got boring after the 90s, go watch a replay of the 2006 Portuguese Grand Prix.
You don’t like Ducati’s current dominance? Take a look at Honda’s 1997 season.
I think most people can see a tangible difference between physical/mechanical progression, and the progression of digital control systems.
Both GP and MX was so much more interesting in the 2T era
I have fond memories from the early 90's of spending evenings watching the MotoGP live with friends then hopping on our RG & RZ 250's for a blast around the streets. It was an incredible period where you could buy a cheap street legal version of what they used to race in the 250 GP & have fun with friends. I can't see people in their 20's doing the same today. Who's got the money for a Panigale these days?
Your statements are not that accurate. I assume you did not live through the 80’s and 90’s to witness the races. I also assume you might be biased in favor of American and Aussie riders. In the 500cc era, only 2 or 3 riders each year were capable of winning GP’s and championships. They dominated the races in such way that you barely heard of other riders names. And this dominance was far greater than compared to today’s Motogp scene. Take the last couple of years example, multiple riders and brands were capable of winning GP races and we do hear about other riders names and brands besides the first 2 dominating ones. Back in the 80’s and 90’s 2 riders were winning GP’s along the championship (3 at max but rare). The reason why Americans and Aussies dominated in those days was mainly due to their dirt track background and training which gave them the sliding technique and control when accelerating out of corners. Other nations lack this background and knowledge. And it is not that 2 strokes are sooo powerful as you exaggeratedly emphasize but is that it’s powerband is so narrow up the revs and it comes so sudden that gives you that sensation of super and uncontrollable power. Torque is everything in track and not so much about uncontrollable peak power. I also understand you miss seeing good American riders in the Motogp scene nowadays but the electronics works for every rider regardless the nationality. You just no longer have the edge which suited 2 stroke bike characteristics so much back in those days. That is the fact. Anyway, I do miss some of the factors which characterized GP’s in the 80’s and 90’s but no so much, for example, the boring dominance of Doohan winning 4 or 5 consecutive championships where watching a GP race was so predictable and utterly boring!
"The reason why Americans and Aussies dominated in those days was mainly due to their dirt track background"
Exactly right, and this is why I simply do not accept the statement in this video that the best riders of today could not have ridden these bikes as well as the best riders back then. The likes of Marquez do a lot of dirt riding and are completely comfortable drifting the bike. Think of the games they all play at Rossi's fabled ranch. Not only that, but today's riders started even younger than the riders did back then, and that is a key factor in development in any sport.
I've been watching MotoGP since the days of Spencer and Lawson, and I am quite certain that this generation of riders is as good as any, they just don't have machinery which showcases it in the same way.
If you think Doohan was boring winning so much after what he overcome, YOU'RE the one with bias.
Doohan is a testament to the human spirit and the sheer fucking will to never to be defeated by anything.
I would also quite like to know how he manages to draw a line of commonality between the barely-controllable psychopaths of the 2-stroke 500 era and the momentum-based pack racing of Moto3. Putting aside the fact that the aero revolution is a natural progression in motorcycle design that earned its place in the sport on merit rather than via a rule change, I fail to see how grand prix motorcycles of the current era are failing to live up to expectations.
That is why I like BSB , less rider aids makes for great racing. Great video 👍 thank you.
2 strokes never die......long live the stink wheel. My weapon of choice was the RG Gamma i had 2 they were brutal but so much fun.
Yes the riders of that time may have been the best racers of any type. Now it, if like everything else, is just systems managment and huge well funded teams. Kevin Schwantz used to do low wheelies comimg out of corners on the Suzuki. When asked why he said the front wheel would stat feeling unstable which botherd him so he just lifted the wheel off the road problem solved.
They were certainly great, all-world racers, but I would put a select few of the 80s & 90s World Rally drivers at the top of my "Best Racers" list. Especially the Spaniard Carlos Sainz and the Finn Juha Kankkunen. Plus, I'd probably add Colin McRae & Tommi Makinen too. The things those boys could do with a racecar on any road surface, in any weather condition was downright fearless & amazing.
There's some pretty hazy memory & perspective there. Many of those 80's & 90's races were very drawn out affairs. Racing much closer in todays tightly controlled machine spec era. Race tracks produce great races: Phillip Island in the 80's & 90's or PI in the MotoGP era, usual iconic close affairs full of passes.
Furthermore the cream of any era is still cream & to suggest the top blokes of today do not compare to yesteryears riders is trash talk nonsense.
Oh and the final Rossi era NSR was a far cry from the Freddie, Eddie or Doohan machines. Far more refined with an electronic suite which is why 250 corner speed merchants like Criville & Rossi won on the thing.
motogp boring? Go watch f1 and you will see what is boring ;)
But I get what you mean, a motoRaw class without to much electronic would be cool.
Also bring two strokes back for track and road
Lol very true
You left out the guys with the EXTREME-size testicles. The most AWESOME race bike of the two-stroke era was Yam OW69, 690cc square four rotary disk valve two-stroke that won Daytona by such a big margin they were outlawed. In the same vein the Yam TZ750, Suzuki TR750, Kawasaki KR750, all big fire-breathing two strokes. I was at a race in 1984 at Mt Panorama in NSW Australia and watched lap after lap as pilot Michael Dowson opened the taps of the Pittmans TZ 750 on the 3km straight while I stood trackside on a cutting in a hillside about 2 meters high about 2/3 down the straight. Every lap Michaels TZ was airborne way over my 1.8meter height standing 2 meters above the track for at least 30 meters. The Formula 750 bikes made the 500s look like kids' toys. They shredded tyres and at the height of their development were pushing 180hp weighing around 150kg. The best thing was ANYONE could buy one, in 1977 they were about $3500, when the 750 roady was about $1200. They are still WILD motorcycles.
10:42 I am a huge fan and I absolutely love your videos, and I’ve learned a lot from your brilliant mini-doccos about bike history, I especially loved the one about Suzuki stealing MZ’s secrets during the Cold War! But, I have to speak up, as an Aussie, I feel obliged to tell you that Mick Doohan is pronounced very differently to how you’ve said it. (like Nick, not Mike, and Doohan pronounced like Ewan, not Dew-hand) 10:42
Mike Doo-haan 😂😂
And the way you said he broke his leg was like was walking in the park.
It was about 13 spiral fracture breaks and he had to have his legs fused so the fractured one wouldn't die and get lopped off.
Hence ehy he walks like a peg leg pirate.
Thanks Dr Claudio Costa !!
Love the bit about the understeer when the fuel was kept low in the chassis. A motorcycle works in a similar way to balancing a golf club in your hand. Pretty easy when the club head is up; nearly impossible when the club head is in your palm. Low CG is not a good answer for RR motorcycles.
Great video! Very informative and well researched. Boy do I miss those two strokes.
As a spectator from that era Doohan made it almost Boring to watch.
Doohan made GP bike races amazing to watch! If you’re not a fan of Doohan then fair enough (your choice), but he never made racing boring. That’s like saying Jordan made basketball boring! The fact that he had horrific crashes and was still able to compete and win after almost losing his leg was amazing. The GP racing the last 15 years is what is boring, the 80’s & 90’s were where the real entertainment was, especially with Doohan, Rainey, Gardner & Schwantz.
To say that any of the modern greats like Marquez, Stoner, Lorenzo etc couldn't hang with the best of the 500cc riders is beyond ludicrous. These modern guys would adapt incredibly quick to the older bike.
The theory of the big bang engine was improved traction out of corners as the gap before the cylinders fired closely together gave the tyres a chance to regain grip...
You’re joking right? MotoGP was incredible this year. Now F1, there’s a snoozefest
Feel sorry for modern young riders who may never experience the power and feel of a last of the line two strokes. Leaving aside the 200bhp 500cc gp bikes, the last of the 250cc road bikes like the rgv 250 Suzuki and tzr 250 vee twins could put 750 and 1000cc bikes in the shade , having raced 250 cc based road bikes they couldn't catch big bikes on acceleration but could catch them on deceleration and higher corner speed. It was a real art keeping a 2 stroke up in is power band. . No electronic launch control, wheeley control. Ride modes , just the dubious connection of brain and right wrist..
Do you feel sorry that you didn't have to manually advance you timing? Do you feel sorry that you didn't have to deal with a total loss oil system? Get over yourself and your generation the world has moved on and it isn't going to die with you.
Modern MotoGP boring? what? I have been following motogp since the late 90s and I have never seen as many dogfights in the top tier class ie motogp like we see now... back in the days only 1-2 teams could win the championship... what is "bart" smoking.... :P
10 different riders on 4 different bikes won a race this season. And if you don't count sprint races, for the first time since 1949 no rider won two races in a row.
My guess is that the creator of this video hasn’t been paying attention the past few seasons, perhaps due to MM93s dominance in previous years. MotoGP is anything but boring, and the number of amazing passes recently speak for themselves. With the types of aerodynamics on the current machines, riding them have also proven to be more difficult and needs adaptations by current riders. The current machines are surely more refined than say the NSR500, but they are anything but easy to ride, I would argue. Ask Simon Crafar (someone who has had a chance to ride 2 strokers and modern era ones too). I started GP motorcycle racing in the early 90s, and my appreciation for each era keeps growing as I learn more about the machines and riders, and current MotoGP races are exciting more often than not.
Agreed, I love barts videos but yeah definitely wrong about that one.
Those high sides were gut wrenching, but the racing was... well,...exiting!
Rossi got the tail end and said it was the scariest, and most incredible bike he ever rode.
Before the close firing order Big Bang Engines, NSR was known for its unwillingness to turn when compared to YZRs and RGVs.Yes Spencer, Gardner, and Lawson did win championshions on it, but the NSRs were known for unrideability.
All firing on one revolution leaving the other for cooling of the tyre. I found that idea intriguing at the time.
@daszieher Cooling but more so to regain traction after losing traction on power pulse(s).
I was not a fan of Yamaha 2Ts but YZRs did remain relatively unchanged and kept it's winning form in the same period (w Lawson and Rainey, KRSr.'s racebike from the 1970s was a bit different.
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh boyyyyyyyyyyyyyy you bringing back memories now. Gardner, Beattie, Doohan. We had the greatest run of riders back then.
I was watching a race (can't recall which) in the late 80's early 90's and it was raining. In this open class race, the winner was a 250, smoked all the 600s 750s and 1000s that were spinning tire in the rain. I find it hard today to watch a race were the rider basically holds the throttle open, and then the electronics rides the bike. Part of the reason I own a well modified 07 CBR1000RR. The wheelie control, traction control, and ABS is between the ears. Pushing to the limit is restricted to the size of the danglings in your shorts.