How does Moly work as a lubricant additive?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- Molybdenum Disulfide (also just known as "Moly") is an extremely common solid lubricant with many applications. Popularised by the "Liqui-Moly" brand, the compound is sometimes used as an additive in lubricating oils and greases, but it sometimes a stand-alone solid lubricant used in the aerospace industry and healthcare. In this video we take a look at how MoS2 works, and how many different interactions there are on the product.
In the 1950's my uncle was in the Air-Force in AK., He said they added Molybdenum to all jet & prop engines. I treated my oil in my 1983 Dodge slant 6 with Moly & the idle rose before our eyes & ears, within minutes the original idle speed was racing & had to turn it way down. One winter we had -50 below zero, the slant 6 started right up, no other cars would start in the town that were parked outside.
Finally, Thank you Rafe, your explanation of MoS2, Graphene, and Hexagonal Boron TriFluoride. I am a HUGE FAN of your Lubrication Explained video TH-cam series. Keep em coming
Wow, thank you Alex!
I swear by it mate!!!! It’s saved my bacon many times when my engine ran low on oil!!!
Mos2 by liqui moly has been specifically engineered for engine use its bloody amazing
Mate, I absolutely love this channel. This content delivered at this level of understanding is spot on.
The quality of your channel is so freaking good. Keep up the good work. Much appreciated!
Beautifully illustrative molecular activities of lubricant. Thanks a lot .Worth watching video. 👍👍
I use Synthetic oil 0W20, one quart of Lucas Pure Synthetic Oil Stabilizer for newer cars and MoS2. My engine is silky smooth.
lucus pure synthetic oil stabilizer.....can affect MOFT ( it can lower MOFT, oil thickness need to lift rod bearing ).....also my valve train.....make noise when i use it......not good.....in modern car.....
after my upcoming masters defence on lubrication i would like to further investigate moly especially its usage as a consumable
I love tribology... glad to see these education videos.
Great video. Im interested in moly and graphite in non-filtered uses, differentials and gearboxes. I know they (oil companys) add moly to the "fuel mileage oils". I guessing the moly must be ground down to a small-small size as to not clog filters, thats why I stay away from them for filtered enviroments. Now this video has given me ideas, why hasn't the racers or semi trucks "moly coated" gears and differentials! I was wondering if I was on the right track adding moly and graphite in differential and gearbox enviroments and this video answered that. Thx
In general the "high mileage oils" contain MoDTC. MoDTC (Molybdenum Dithiocarbamate) is an oil-soluble additive that's typical in engine oils. It acts a little bit like ZDDP inasmuch as it has an affinity for metal surfaces, and forms a surface film in the load zone. Where ZDDP forms a S/P later, MoDTC forms MoS2 in the load zone.
The SAE studies I've read, that MoDTC needs ZDDP to work synergisticly.
Amazing information dude, first of its kind on the internet for us to see. Thenk you!!
Thanks. I did not know the different arrangements of moly disulfide. I also have heard some are oil soluble and others are not.
mo-dtc, which is liquid, not a dust.
Glad it was helpful! As @Unkown1 explained, MoDTC (Molybdenum Dithiocarbamate) is an oil-soluble additive that's typical in engine oils. It acts a little bit like ZDDP inasmuch as it has an affinity for metal surfaces, and forms a surface film in the load zone. Where ZDDP forms a S/P later, MoDTC forms MoS2 in the load zone. Given it's an uncontrolled chemical process I would theorise (without experimental proof mind you) that the MoS2 layer formed would be less effective than actual MoS2 solid lubricants in which the particle size and arrangement can be controlled as part of the manufacturing process.
Excellent explanation of MoS2 lubricatio !!
Earned my subscription !!!
Excavators are an interesting example to consider. 99% of things being lubricated require a quality moly grease (at least here in Aus). The 1% is unfortunately the most expensive thing to replace, it being the slew bearing. You can use a moly grease to lubricate the slew bearing but if it isn't carefully considered and the wrong grease used, rollers in the bearing can be forced to slip rather than roll. I have seen a few examples of failed slew bearings where slipping rollers have hindered the failure analysis of the bearings because an OEM wanted to attribute the root cause of the failure to roller slipping rather than the more obvious cause of grease starvation of the roller race which is due to poor design.
Great explanation thank you! I'm transitioning into an M&P role and these videos help a ton!
Great to hear! If you're looking for something a bit more structured there's a bunch of courses on the website lubrication.expert/product/lubrication-exchange/ . Otherwise hopefully there's enough videos on the channel to keep you busy.
Here I am, researching materials found in gun lubricants and stumbled upon this great video! A few of the lubricants I'm researching have gone out of their way to say that they've included moly into their lubricants to help further penetrate the metal surfaces and claims that it virtually "eliminates" friction wear and lasts x times longer than other leading brands. Does moly have a point where when heated it penetrates into metal better? A few of the application directions for these companies reccomended applying the lubricant and then using a device to heat the surface for however long. I've only seen these directions with the few companies that include the moly.
The leading Moly is MolySlip (UK) or Mr. Moly (U.S.) The key to Moly as an additive to engine oil is keeping the solid (Moly) suspended in the oil which is the carrying agent. MolySlip (Mr. Moly is refined down to 1/2 a micron so will stay suspended. Some Moly additives on the market are much larger than this and the moly will settle out of the oil and go to the bottom of the pan, also being very large (over 1 micron +) it can become an abrasive (being very hard) and damage bearings and metal parts. NOT all Moly additives are the same. MolySlip was developed in the 1940's as an additive by Baron Beck and became a solution for oil starvation problem in Spitfies in combat. Dr. Beck was Nighted for his development and contribution to the war effort. Another MolySlip usted still today in F1 by a lot of teams is CopaSlip Anti Seize compound.
Great videos. Keep them coming.
Thanks!
Please do a video about liqui moly 🙏
Will see what I can do. I'm not usually one for evaluating specific brands/products but might be able to do it in a roundabout way.
th-cam.com/video/WlrQc4-47SQ/w-d-xo.html In case you missed it!
Great presentation
Very Very excellent article. About " building" but phenomenon !!! Potassium in gear oils please....
Thanks! Just a quick question though - when you say Potassium do you mean Phosphorous? I don't think I've ever seen Potassium in a gear oil unless it was a contaminant...
Potassium borate dispersion ( polymer )
@@KarolosAthens I see. So in that particular molecule I believe that Potassium is itself inert. Borated esters belong to a class of anti-oxidant / antiwear additives that function a little bit like ZDDP. The antiwear chemistry isn't well understood but it's believed that they deposit Boron Nitride layers in the load zone. Here's a previous video on Boron in lubricants:
th-cam.com/video/xGDJimjYBFw/w-d-xo.html
funny how l-m molygen has a little moly. mostly a organic -tungsten.
organic -tungsten has nice properties. what i immediately see, the oil darkening is so slower...
can you discuss ws2 dust in engine oils?
Good question. I might not get around to a dedicated video soon just because there are so many other subjects to cover and it's a pretty niche additive at this point. Some quick comments though:
Overall, WS2 seems (I don't have much experience here) to outperform MoS2 on most metrics. Coefficient of friction is lower, load bearing capacity is higher, and the operating temperature window is higher. The exception is in a vacuum, where MoS2 is able to operate at higher temperature extremes, hence it's applications in space industry.
The main advantage of MoS2 is cost. Both are naturally occurring minerals, but Molybdenite is reasonably common whereas Tungstenite is quite rare and therefore most WS2 is synthesised.
Moly had a big following for a while as a bullet coating in firearms until the industry moved onto boron which proved superior
Pure gold!!
Thanks!!
almost all motor oil In east asia, where many of us using scooter/matic motorcycle, is also using moly as additive (except manual gear motorcycle). Does this mean scooter/matic can also using pcmo and hdeo because they have similiar additive? Thx for the answer 💯
Great video and explanation. I would like to know why some manufacturers of equipment limit the content of moly in the grease to 3%. This is the case of some big front shovels in mining. What is the impact of the moly content?
Great question! I don’t know the answer for sure, but I’d guess that there’s a limit to the solids content. The NLGI number of the grease (the “thickness”) is mostly governed by the amount of thickener, which usually makes up 10-30% of the grease by volume (the remainder is base oil). With only 20% of a grease being thickener, I’m guessing adding anything above 3-5% moly would start to impact the thickness and flow characteristics.
Thank You for your answer.
Now, I've also heard about problems caused by moly in bearings (Ball and Roller bearings). In fact I had a swing bearing failure in a EX3600 and someone from the dealer mentioned the fact that we were using grease with 3% moly which is not recommended for Roller bearings.
Why does moly affect Roller and Ball bearings? IS that Real?
@@carlosalbertocaamanojaraba211 Another good question - it's possible. MoS2 particles are typically in the range of 1-100 micron. As covered in this video: th-cam.com/video/ke7hgVFAFOs/w-d-xo.html the thickness of an oil film in a roller bearing is on a similar scale, so there's the potential that the MoS2 particles are causing three-body erosion.
Why are there some oils with zero moly? Some very good oils I might add. What are they using instead and why do they choose not to use moly?
You're On to It :) Everything they wanted to know... 'fraid to ask? :)
Hopefully!
Hello how r u? I really appreciate the person that u r and great content. I'm hooked on u and Lake Speed Jr. I sent u several questions on the "boron" and "calcium" and "esters" topic but I know u r a busy guy. But here's another one... What about Antimony in oil. I saw a break down on 'Ford boss me' about Shaeffers Moly ep and it was really amazing. He put in the normal amount and then lab tested it later. It doubled the viscosity only when hot. How exactly does that work. Is Antimony a good ep additive? I just happen to have a motor that I rebuilt twice and has good oil pressure except when it's 100 degrees out and it's at idle. I went in the ecu and raised idle and also am running a 20/50 with 20.8 cst viscosity. That's pretty high. I also got my cooling system running 20 degrees lower. But it's still an issue. So in this one scenerio it may help me. He said it went in as a 5w30 and came out a 0w50 or 10w60. So the low cold viscosity basically didn't change. But the upper limit did. I think there's very little Moly in it and it's Antimony. What r your thoughts? How does Antimony compare to Boron? And the way that it's heat-reactive? I sent a few other in depth questions about Boron on those other teachings that I mentioned. I know u r busy.... Zero pressure... But I'd love to hear from u on those subjects. It's your fault... Youre a likeable guy w super great teachings on these subjects for oil-needs like me😅. Thanks again
Doesn anyone know if 'Kroon-Oil MoS2' is similar to 'Liqui Moly LM47 MoS2'? Kroon Oil MoS2 is the only one easily available where I live.
I saw an oil analysis of “liqui moly” and the molybdenum was actually very low. It may be because the moly was the other form He mentioned in this video.
Liqui moly use mos2 all of their oils , I mean expensive oils has mos2 more than others. You can see mos2 green color in mobile one 0w20
Excellent!
Thank you! Cheers!
Great video, does it perform better than ZDDP additives?
Kindly requested to make informative vdo on PTFE + MoS2 coating on Engine Bearings.
Thank you.
Welcome!
Wow you're a king
Thanks!
Great explanation. How do you make your animations?
Thanks John! It’s actually all PowerPoint 😛
Rafe, what is meant when 3% or 5% is listed in a TDS.
Un fact some OEM's limit this percentage, for example to 3% for the bucket pin in a front shovel. Why is this?
Hi I bought a bag of tungsten disulfide sulfide powder online and saw complaints that it was Molybdenum instead. How can I test to see which it is? Thanks
Honestly, the easiest way is probably to do a standard use oil analysis test. I'd take a sample of engine oil, and add the powder to it, then get it tested (make sure the lab is testing for both Moly and Tungsten in ICP metals). Depending on which one increases, you'll know which it is. Use oil analysis testing usually costs about $30 AUD - ALS and Caterpillar dealers are the most widespread labs.
@@LubricationExplained Thanks for the response. So there is no simple way to test what you are being sold? So companies could be selling cheap Molly off as Tungsten? I use it for bicycle chains.
¡Gracias!
Wow, thanks for the super thanks!
can you tell me about archoil 9100 it's got ester and boron and zinc? and hotshots ?
Good question. I can't really talk to the specifics of the product as I haven't seen it in use, but like most pour-in treat products it more or less works by increasing the amount of additive. Whether you need it or not really depends not he quality of the lubricant you're currently using. Most engine oil manufacturers formulate oils with as little additive as they need to to optimise performance, because excessive additives act as oxidation catalysts and can precipitate into sludge and deposits. For the three specific additives you were talking about, here are hopefully some helpful videos:
Boron: th-cam.com/video/xGDJimjYBFw/w-d-xo.html
Esters: th-cam.com/video/sBZWF-QMQMI/w-d-xo.html
Zinc: th-cam.com/video/3PeqJqss0Ao/w-d-xo.html
is it possible to plasma spray or vacuum sputtering mos2 on metal surfaces?
Yes, in fact, that's how it's achieved on satellites. I think that's how the Moly on piston rings is deposited too.
@@LubricationExplained interesting that mos2 decomposition temperature only about 650ºC
Have you ever hear about moly additive in engine oil will corrode moly engine coating in piston or piston's ring?
Haven't personally heard that - but that's not to say it doesn't happen.
@@LubricationExplained ok. example of claim:
Wear Mechanisms of Hydrogenated DLC in Oils Containing MoDTC
also in BMW motorrad users manual that forbid oil containing moly
How about castrol titanium. What do they use?
Good question. The honest answer at the moment is, I don't know. The little I've read about it is very cryptic.
I was wondering the same thing. A few companies are using Titanium, but I wonder if it replaces Moly or is mixed in with it.
Please help. I want your advice on using either Polyurea (di-urea) grease vs Molybdenum (MOS2) grease such as Liqui Molly LM47 in car CV joints (tripod & Rzeppa). I dont know which type of grease has been used before in my cars CV joints so I will be eliminating the old grease to avoid any grease incompatibility issues. So which grease is a better option ? Or should we use Polyurea (di-urea) grease in tripod joint & MOS2 in Rzeppa ? I am getting mixed opinions on these. An expert like you can put an end to this confusion :)
Personally I’d go with the Polyurea as long as it’s shear stable. CV joint temperatures can end up being pretty high and being non-metal containing is a big advantage for the polyureas (metals being oxidation catalysts).
@@LubricationExplained Thank you very much.
In your opinion would a dry moly lube be better than a dry PTFE lube or the same?
Depends on the application really. For the most part, moly will do pretty well.
Is this safe for catalitic converter in diesel?
Good question, because Sulphur is known to poison catalysts. From what I've read, MoS2 is thermally stable enough that the Sulphur remains bonded to the Moly, and therefore does not react with the catalysts. So theoretically, yes, it should be safe for use.
thanks, loved the playing cards analogy. Please tell me, why is particle size so important, being tech, techfine and superfine, who would prefer a finer PS? and what would a more coarse grade be better used in? thanks so much
Great question! Generally its down to the surface finish of what you're trying to lubricate. If the surface finish on a gear tooth has a peak-trough height of 20 micron, then a 1 micron Moly particle will just sit on the low side and be ineffective.
They sell this to put in your engine oil which to me doesn’t make sense because the oil itself should be formulated with the right balance of additives from the start to protect your engine. Sounds like it has its uses but maybe not as an extra additive for your engine oil. Thanks for the explanation on how it works!
Believe me I’ve been using mos2 by liqui moly for years!! Also what you’re saying is wrong if you look at most engine oils they do in-fact use moly disulphide as a friction modifier additive package in their oils
Is Liqui Moly Mos2 a tri-nuclear?
Do you mean Boron Nitride?
Hi mate,
Can I use CeraTec liqui moly for 2013 Mercedes Vito van 122CDI?
Don’t use ceratec use mos2
@@filiplaskovski9993
Thanks for reply!
I heard CeraTec is better but not sure?
Did u use both?
@@silkroadm6380 man I’ve had nothing but good things to say about mos2 it has saved my engine multiple times when it ran basically without oil, I had a severe engine oil consumption issue and I few times I’ve just neglected to check the oil level and found it bone dry!! The mos2 definitely prevented catastrophic engine failure!!
Does anyone have knowledge or experience with adding Moly to engine oil?
I bought some moly additive from jcwhitney about 25 years ago to put in a 1968 Ford 390 v8.
I didn’t notice anything, just was hoping it reduced friction.
👍👍
Moly really fouls spark plugs.
And oxygen sensors.
Why would it be in the combustion chamber though anyway?
@@christopherwertman125 From experience lubricating oil finds its way past the rings and guides and gets burnt in the combustion chamber. Some engines burn more oil than others.
I wonder is HBN will start to see more adoption too.