intra morph It is interesting to think about though, how the game would change if we messed around with the win condition. For example you could make it "capture all the pawns".
At 3:30, it's easier to visualize the protected queen right up in the king's grill as a mate rather than on the last rank. There are many instances where the king is on the last rank and the protected queen is on the adjacent square for mate.
20:00 I had a similar position in a correspondence game, with Black.I had a big advantage otherwise, but the White passed pawn on the a file made equalizing the game possible with the Rh8 trick. My opponent and I missed the nuance for two moves, then I finally corrected the situation by playing ..Kg7 (there was no White passed pawn on the f file).
Master Finegold, why is it called king and pawn end games? Isn't the king part redundant? Well, I guess it's not redundant for those kids that traded kings and tried to check one another with a king. You should have a lecture of "end games without kings."
Wei Xiong The Kings are not redundant because there must be kings on the board and if one player makes use of their king in a king and pawn endgame and the other doesn't they most certainly win
the vancurra method was used by aronian against carlsen in the 2014 seinquefield cup. i could be wrong, but Ben Finegold even commentated on it. ( it was at the saint louis chess club)
I Had 8 queens once against a HP basic computer (1980). The important thing is that the opponent doesn't resign. Avoiding stalemate is a thing. I printed the board, but it has faded because of those thermal printers.
Great video! Rare instance where Ben gets it wrong. He say if you don’t play h8 queen u won’t win (in 7). But there is at least one other move that forces mate in 7.
at 32:47, if black plays f6 doesn't that cut off e5 for white? meaning that black can now play kc6 if white continues the zugzwang idea? Even if white plays ke4 he cant get to blacks pawns, I think
I know it's been a year, but the Chess didn't change, so I think pawn movement doesn't matter, because white king can just move left, and now black king moves left too and they're both on c file, now because of white losing tempo with the rook, the black king will have to eventually move the king left or right, and then white king goes the opposite direction.
Adam Rubinson If it is white to move, yes: 1. a7 Kg6 2. Rg8+ ..etc. If it is black to move, no: 1.. Kg6 2. a7 Kg7 3... and black plays Kg7-Kh7 forever and draws.
I had a lesson on Rook and Pawn vs Rook Endgames with germen GM Thomas Luther on July 11th, that was exciting. Now I know, there has just to be enough space between the pawn and the defending rook to go for techincal draw along with the King defending on the 7th rank, on the other side, if the attacking rook controls a line awys enough from the queening pawn, it is a techincal win. this works ofc only for pawns on c, d, e, or f file, if the pawn is closer to the board edge, it should be a relatively easy draw for the defending player, though I certainly remeber that wrong :(
No, not necessary. Counterexample: Imagine queens 9 all clumped up in the corner, from A1-C3. Then the opposite king has at least two adjacent squares - d8 and e8.
at 11:51 it's incorrect to say that if the K goes to f7 the next 4 moves will be the pawn up the board. After 1..,Kh8 2.Kf7, Kh7 3.g5, Kh8 4.g6 the game is over. The principled way to win is to get the K to h7. 1..,Kh8 2.Kh6, Kg8 3.g5, Kh8 4.g6, Kg8 5.g7, Kf7 6.Kh7 It would have been better to have used the c d e or f-pawn in the example, because no stalemate tricks then.
Emp eror You are correct. That's the special drawing case of the knight's pawn - the superior king has to crowd the inferior king off toward the center of the board in order to win. In the case of a rook's pawn, it's a draw if the inferior king is in front of the pawn, period.
+Stephen Wells At 32:47 you say black should play f6. White can literally play any move and still win but easiest is probably moving white's king to protect the a5 pawn and using whites rook for attacking purposes. Note the black can not use his king to keep opposition against white's king because white's pawn attacks b6 which is the opposition square when white reaches b4.
If Benny is joking about the classic books or not? there is modern endgame theorie by karsten muller and dworetski/Jussopov or the older awerbach and shereshewski rook and strategic endgame publications. Studying the old Euwe and Portish books will also make you a stronger chessplayer.Greetings from Holland by the way Love the classes of benny (Hill) Finegold and Yaser (Arafat) Sereiwan. Keep it up.
In the first puzzle, why not Kh5, then whereever the black king moves, you play Kh6 and then he cannot possibly do anything else than run and you push your two pawns? Am I missing something? Some stalemate after promotion?
Zugzwang is not pronounced like that. The w sounds like a v and the z's are pronounced much more sharply (note: it's German. It's literally the word "turn" and "force" "Zug" and "Zwang" mashed together, because German is cool like that).
The stories are hilarious - the one about the adult resigning when he went to make move and you went to shake, thinking he was resigning - then he decided to resign after all was the perfect capstone. Even better than the kids asking if it's stalemate when he's in check by 5 enemy pieces. Or, where are the kings? Oh, we traded them off long ago.
+mike A king can certainly be checked by five pieces if you don't play by the rules - which I think is the case with the infamous chess camp kids. Nonetheless, he may very well have exaggerated how bad it was.
@13:50 Finegold realized that Arjun gonna say yes to any question he asks... So Finegold asks "Do u wanna order a steak" zugzwang question... Arjun is forced to say yes, but steak is forbidden for hindus .. :D Most non-hindus didnt seem to have noticed it :D
Yamiegg almost all his jokes are at the expense of others, or (sarcastically) to better himself. And not only in this vid. But hey, I hope for his sake I'm wrong.
Yamiegg On the contrary. The way a person delivers a message, both verbal and nonverbal, tells something about the 'person', 100% of the time. But again, let's hope for his sake my observation is wrong.
Those kids' stories at the beginning were hilarious!
More Ben!
+elbay2 something like 2 white light square bishops
+elbay2 we traded kings a long time ago. it was a fare trade xD
intra morph It is interesting to think about though, how the game would change if we messed around with the win condition. For example you could make it "capture all the pawns".
I want a Ben Finegold anecdote video.
Yamiegg I second that
Studying for exams vs Ben Finegold, Ben Finegold wins every time
He's a grandmaster after all, he almost always wins!
Thank you Ben Finegold for teaching and Ben Simon for producing. Your videos are helpful to kids in their 50's too!!
this is hilarious :) props to this gm with a sense of humour
The most entertaining lecturer-EVER! Ben is the greatest
6:05 "Kings were traded long time ago..."
I laughed out loud while at work from that story.
I love GM Finegold lectures!
King A7.5.... Exclam!
The Israel of God Atlanta the name Jesus's
Hey Ben! Thanks for another lecture! Looking forward to watching later after work :)
this is such a great video
love the stories :) keep up the good work ben :)
best regards from Vienna, Austria
Thanks for this
I think GM Finegold could make an hour long video on this topic. And do you know why?
Carlo Ponzetti He gets paid by the hour!
His dad hasn't heard of him... the truth hurts
been watching for a while kid stories forced me to subscribe. we need these stories in book form!
11:03 - Emerson, Lake and Palmer reference: "From The Beginning".
I like how at the beginning of the lecture he said he couldn’t think of any famous players whose name starts with Z, but later on mentioned Zukertort.
At 3:30, it's easier to visualize the protected queen right up in the king's grill as a mate rather than on the last rank. There are many instances where the king is on the last rank and the protected queen is on the adjacent square for mate.
What about Julio Granda Zuniga?
I love this dude! He's so funny!
20:00 I had a similar position in a correspondence game, with Black.I had a big advantage otherwise, but the White passed pawn on the a file made equalizing the game possible with the Rh8 trick. My opponent and I missed the nuance for two moves, then I finally corrected the situation by playing ..Kg7 (there was no White passed pawn on the f file).
Master Finegold, why is it called king and pawn end games? Isn't the king part redundant? Well, I guess it's not redundant for those kids that traded kings and tried to check one another with a king. You should have a lecture of "end games without kings."
Wei Xiong Its Grandmaster Finegold
Yes. GM Finegold!
Wei Xiong The Kings are not redundant because there must be kings on the board and if one player makes use of their king in a king and pawn endgame and the other doesn't they most certainly win
Because 'pawn endgame' would be ambiguous, it could just mean an endgame with pawns in it, whereas 'king & pawn' is not.
the vancurra method was used by aronian against carlsen in the 2014 seinquefield cup. i could be wrong, but Ben Finegold even commentated on it. ( it was at the saint louis chess club)
Arjen is soooooo funny :D
I Had 8 queens once against a HP basic computer (1980). The important thing is that the opponent doesn't resign. Avoiding stalemate is a thing. I printed the board, but it has faded because of those thermal printers.
Best annotator and chess comedian!
Great video! Rare instance where Ben gets it wrong. He say if you don’t play h8 queen u won’t win (in 7). But there is at least one other move that forces mate in 7.
I remember thinking the 3 queens thing. I don’t remember where I heard it
at 32:47, if black plays f6 doesn't that cut off e5 for white? meaning that black can now play kc6 if white continues the zugzwang idea? Even if white plays ke4 he cant get to blacks pawns, I think
I know it's been a year, but the Chess didn't change, so I think pawn movement doesn't matter, because white king can just move left, and now black king moves left too and they're both on c file, now because of white losing tempo with the rook, the black king will have to eventually move the king left or right, and then white king goes the opposite direction.
The song from ELP is called "From the Beginning" not in the beggining
Oh man, this guy is awesome... And fun!
4:10 to 6:55 is pure comedy gold!
Can white win the position at 23:16 ?
Adam Rubinson If it is white to move, yes: 1. a7 Kg6 2. Rg8+ ..etc.
If it is black to move, no: 1.. Kg6 2. a7 Kg7 3... and black plays Kg7-Kh7 forever and draws.
26:33 can white respond with a7? so that if the BLACK ROOK stops controlling the a-file, then white can queen ?
do you guys know the program they use to showcase these chess positions??
Its chessbase
27:45 position is not a draw, white wins am i right?
We love Ben!
I had a lesson on Rook and Pawn vs Rook Endgames with germen GM Thomas Luther on July 11th, that was exciting. Now I know, there has just to be enough space between the pawn and the defending rook to go for techincal draw along with the King defending on the 7th rank, on the other side, if the attacking rook controls a line awys enough from the queening pawn, it is a techincal win. this works ofc only for pawns on c, d, e, or f file, if the pawn is closer to the board edge, it should be a relatively easy draw for the defending player, though I certainly remeber that wrong :(
I wonder why he tells us that he is boring ...HE IS EPIC!!!
Isn't it impossible to have 8 queens? The losing side would be stalemated by the time you had 7 wouldn't they?
No, not necessary. Counterexample:
Imagine queens 9 all clumped up in the corner, from A1-C3. Then the opposite king has at least two adjacent squares - d8 and e8.
you can even hide your queens with you other pieces or atleast your king
Phoenix nope you can have nine
at 11:51 it's incorrect to say that if the K goes to f7 the next 4 moves will be the pawn up the board. After 1..,Kh8 2.Kf7, Kh7 3.g5, Kh8 4.g6 the game is over.
The principled way to win is to get the K to h7.
1..,Kh8 2.Kh6, Kg8 3.g5, Kh8 4.g6, Kg8 5.g7, Kf7 6.Kh7
It would have been better to have used the c d e or f-pawn in the example, because no stalemate tricks then.
Emp eror You are correct. That's the special drawing case of the knight's pawn - the superior king has to crowd the inferior king off toward the center of the board in order to win. In the case of a rook's pawn, it's a draw if the inferior king is in front of the pawn, period.
I solved the first position in around 90 seconds. What's my rating?
Anyone know if Ben has ever told any other kid stories?
if ben played magnus or kasparov 10 games could he win any at his rating? just curious
skillywilly187 if he played ultra solid and his opponent was desperate to win maybe
I think with their rating difference it's pretty unlikely, as in ofc he should be able to win a game here and there but maybe would need 20.
Those stories are hilarious.
+Stephen Wells At 32:47 you say black should play f6. White can literally play any move and still win but easiest is probably moving white's king to protect the a5 pawn and using whites rook for attacking purposes. Note the black can not use his king to keep opposition against white's king because white's pawn attacks b6 which is the opposition square when white reaches b4.
he has great humor
4:50 he and eric rosen would be perfect together
Grandmaster Finegold, I trust you implicitly, but my opponents insist I cannot play Ka7.5!
Hey Ben finegold pls make a vedio on bishop vs night or two bishop vs night bishop or bishop night vs night night
gm ben is the best GM the only GM that played me love ben! donate and watch his streams on twitch, he play every human who dare to challenge him !
14:41 missed opportunity for a Harry Potter joke
If Benny is joking about the classic books or not? there is modern endgame theorie by karsten muller and dworetski/Jussopov or the older awerbach and shereshewski rook and strategic endgame publications. Studying the old Euwe and Portish books will also make you a stronger chessplayer.Greetings from Holland by the way Love the classes of benny (Hill) Finegold and Yaser (Arafat) Sereiwan. Keep it up.
In the first puzzle, why not Kh5, then whereever the black king moves, you play Kh6 and then he cannot possibly do anything else than run and you push your two pawns? Am I missing something? Some stalemate after promotion?
Your way would win eventually but not fast enoff
+Fred Fredfred because the king would run to the center
Well no, actually my thought was wrong.
ben finegold
Is it still a plan if u r doing nothing?
Zugzwang is not pronounced like that. The w sounds like a v and the z's are pronounced much more sharply (note: it's German. It's literally the word "turn" and "force" "Zug" and "Zwang" mashed together, because German is cool like that).
Hilarious kids stories!!
I thought the opposition was the person that blocked the King in the second endgame kf8 allowed white to block black so he had the opposition
Ta very much for the crumbs, Ben. As we say in Britain. Apart from Scotland which invariably includes the F word somewhere.
It's "From The Beginning", not "In the Beginning".
Can you teach the sicilian
The stories are hilarious - the one about the adult resigning when he went to make move and you went to shake, thinking he was resigning - then he decided to resign after all was the perfect capstone. Even better than the kids asking if it's stalemate when he's in check by 5 enemy pieces. Or, where are the kings? Oh, we traded them off long ago.
3:26 1 square instead of three hahahha :D
LOL Meat Loaf & ELP references
Is this endgame for tournament players. Got nothing.
Is this the chess version of Jonah Hill?
This is the best description ive heard so far so yeah
Oh I did already say that
I like how they skipped over Julian's question. Silly Julian.
You say "Zugzwang" as if it is japan or something but Z is spoken "ts"
1st position: "If you don't play h8Q, you won't win." Not quite true. 1.h8=R also mates in 7. :)
has he been into a bar fight?
love ben...hilarious dude bringing laughs to a boring game.
oh and he is chris christy in disguise
i want to read ben's book cry like a grandmaster
I would have said Zaitsev
A player whose last name begins with a Z? Igor Zaitsev!
30:29
checked by 5 pieces? very suspicious
Ridics that why it is funny :P
Those americans just can't pronounce "Zugzwang" it's not sugswang but ZugZwang with a "z" and not an "s"
ben looks a lot like Chris farley in the intro image
and he is fat and funny too
brothers??
No such thing as a legal position with five pieces checking a king. The most is two (double check).
I have personally seen atleast a triple check
a king can never be checked by 5 pcs, unless it's a composed position, but it's funny how he delivered it anyway
+mike A king can certainly be checked by five pieces if you don't play by the rules - which I think is the case with the infamous chess camp kids. Nonetheless, he may very well have exaggerated how bad it was.
Carlsen is an endgame master Ben WTF are you smoking?
@13:50
Finegold realized that Arjun gonna say yes to any question he asks...
So Finegold asks "Do u wanna order a steak"
zugzwang question...
Arjun is forced to say yes, but steak is forbidden for hindus .. :D
Most non-hindus didnt seem to have noticed it :D
Never seen anyone waffle so much and try to add wit to almost everything. Take that away and he would be a great teacher.
Wyn Lewis dont you insult our great leader that way
No one got the Pulp Fiction joke "I dare you , I double-dare you, Do you speak English in what" just terrible.
17.29.... With a pen or a pencil Finegold.... Geez
too much constant interjection of completely distracting off-topic attempts at humor! Good choice of material and no heavy foreign accent!
410
V.
He's a vegetarian? Could have fooled me...
uses too many words
this is a great video, but finegold needs to stop with the constant jokes. 1-2 in the beginning, and then finish the jokes.
Naaah if i wanted a chess lecture without jokes id watch every other chess lecture. The finegold lectures are special in this way but its a good way.
+Felix Eisenmenger I agree, but the problem is that his jokes suck. LOL.
sfflyer123 Nope, you're just being politically correct.
the content is interesting, but damn, GM Finegold seems like such a bitter and unhappy person.
How so?
Yamiegg almost all his jokes are at the expense of others, or (sarcastically) to better himself. And not only in this vid. But hey, I hope for his sake I'm wrong.
Patrick Swayze He makes loads of jokes about himself. Every Finegold joke is an anti-joke by now anyway; nothing of it actually means anything.
Yamiegg On the contrary. The way a person delivers a message, both verbal and nonverbal, tells something about the 'person', 100% of the time. But again, let's hope for his sake my observation is wrong.