The mystery remains: why does it feels like something on the inside to *be* those processes in the brain? Why can't every single process Rodolfo describes go on mechanistically with no internal subjective experience? Still interesting in a different way.
I just love what Alan Watts said: Everything ""outside"" of you is a STATE OF AFFAIRS """INSIDE YOUR HEAD""". A CONDITION OF YOUR NERVOUS SYSTEM. Give it whatever name or description you want, words just try to explain what is " within you ", your interpretation of whatever.
Many of the processes he's speaking of, are functions of the cerebellum. The problem with using this kind of criteria to gauge consciousness, is that when I appear unconscious externally... internally, I am highly conscious in a dream, and typically oblivious to the memories of my external "real" life, but with full compliment of memories that coincide with the "dream" life. If memories of events in real life bleed into this state, they feel like the remembered dream.
There's nothing in his description of this hypothesis that even slightly begins to address the Hard Problem. edit: Not saying he’s wrong as far as his ideas go, or that what he’s saying doesn’t have value - just that there’s not even an attempt here to explain how it is that brain processes are accompanied by conscious experience. And experience is what makes a mind a mind. It’s what separates mere information processing from actual consciousness, and it’s what the “Hard Problem of Consciousness” is all about. And it’s a problem for which nobody has put forth even a rough sketch of a guess at a speculative hypothesis - at least not one that is purely physical and doesn’t involve any miracles, brute facts, inexplicable strong emergence, etc. I can’t even begin to conceive of what such a hypothesis would look like, so this is not surprising...
@@ddoubleewhome7863 - The thing is that I’m not sure he knows that he doesn’t know. It seems like a lot of really brilliant people just don’t (or can’t) “see” the Hard Problem for some reason. I totally didn’t “see” it until my early 30s. Not sure how I missed it for so long... 🤔 👻 =/= 🧠
Any illusion presumes a person who is seeing the illusion. If consciousness itself is an illusion, there is no one to see the illusion. So, just drop that option
I think those who are foolish enough to suggest consciousness is an illusion are prisoners of a very strong dogmatic view that nothing mysterious exists. They fear, if they admitted that something mysterious could not be explained in the current framework of fundamental physics, might as well go to church or something. You can argue everything about consciousness is illusory, but the pure awareness of the illusory perceptions can never be gotten rid of.
@@DestroManiak And if pure awareness is like a static from the phase changes, then that can be disregarded too! No matter how it appears to us, this comes later anyway. So a person (actually comprised of many non-human elements) looking in a mirror....
Interesting perspective but I wonder is consciousness really not present when sleeping? Dreaming etc? It seems sleeping is just another form of consciousness albeit less obvious for the body at rest.
As a kid growing up, I was told I was body mind and soul. Now the intellectual class says there’s mind body problem but there’s probably no mind just body. The tripartite theory makes more sense to me.
You don't disappear when you sleep though. The brain is just as active while you're asleep as when you're awake. You're conscious, it's just most times you don't remember. When someone wakes you up, whether it's NREM or REM sleep, you're likely to remember a dream of some kind. When you wake up, you sense some amount of time has passed. Sleep is an altered state of conscious, but there's still "something" or "someone" there. You experience qualia (though there is certainly some philosophical argument to be had over whether or not you're truly conscious if you didn't remember it). Contrast this with general anesthesia, in which case you truly do "disappear." Most people who undergo GA report it's like taking two reams of film and stitching the edges together. You count backwards from 10 then blink, and suddenly you're somewhere else. You have no sense that any time has passed, but it's probably been hours, you're in the recovery room, etc...
"The frequency tells you..." Well, YEAH! Driving function/transfer function: i get hippocampus/hypothalimus mixed up.... and i might continue that ambiguity for a bit. The Nyquist theorem has application here, i think: we see a continuois flow as opposed to a series of still frames.
His explanation went unchallenged. Why don’t you then create a frequency of your own and develop a consciousness from it. And when I’m asleep why is my frequency creating another reality.
Echidna has a LARGER prefrontal cortex than humans, relative to the whole brain but the Echidna does NOT dream - and therefore it's "intentional planning" is very limited. Dreaming is all the INHIIBITED subconscious perceptions that get processed "OFF LINE" so that the 40 Hertz "mind" as the Binding Mechanism can stay focused on predicting at intentional planning. So DREAMING is what creates the long-term memories stored with our subconsciousness as an integrated knowledge system. Without dreaming then we have to process the subconscious perceptions in "real time" and so we have to stay focused on the intention of the "now" all the time. This is what meditation does.
He is talking about a frequency of neural circuits. EEG measures them and one can then correlate them to certain states. For example, the absence of 40 hz correlates strongly to the absence of consciousness.
That´s not the essence of scientific explanation. We can explain the pull of tides, yet can´t reproduce the gravity that causes it. We can explain the mechanics of evolution, yet we can´t replicate the clockwork that puts it into motion.
Seems like a very valuable insight, but it could be analogous to a computer turning on rather than capturing what the software is doing. For me, there's no doubt that the brain houses the mind - but thinking may involve the manipulation of ideas, as ideas, rather than "mere neurons running downhill".
@@brianmason2368 what about when one is in a coma? And it is generally accepted that one is not conscious when under an anaesthetic. If you mean by "consciousness" that our bodies are still running, that is not really phenomenal consciousness.
Best way to hypothesize about consciousness is to look at muscle cells since brains evolve with the sensorimotor system. Just as muscle cells combine to enact forces on our bones, neurons are performing a similar process by performing some type of synchronicity of their internal metabolic processes or forming Supercells that slow down the reality of the shorter event horizons which are much shorter respectively at the inorganic, organic or simple cellular levels. Just like any other process in nature we can say consciousness is "down there" at those levels but emerges into this waking objective reality via the processes he describes. It is also down there because it emerges up from the more fundamental reticular processes. He should interview Mark Solms. Heidegger's work of Being and Time or being-ness is more fundamental and emerges into a world of time and objective reality.
Temperature, heat, energy, electric, magneticism, manifestation, creation... Spirit being the highest on the scale, is God and nature, is life and ever changing, transformational. Everything is light, everything come from light. Our soul is photon. Light is knowledge, thus there is consciousness of knowledge. God is fullfilling like the fountain of youth. Consciousness is God.
Complex awareness. Birds in a flock build an awareness field with their calls, humans have internalized this field, and yet mimic the birds in creating culture, so both at once. Simple awareness is the ability to discern differences and could be several things, a God force or something like the static from movement or phase change, or an internal structure like the video describes produces it, a vortex or conduit tuned to 40 Hz.
Is the fact that we experience stuff and we are alive and personal when there could be only philosophical zombies in our places doing the same exact things including asking about consciousness. Because even the consciousness our body-brain speak of is not the same thing we experience internally. 😂
So i exist as a 40 hertz cycle in my brain? are you sure i'm not a 42 hertz cycle??? 42 being the answer to the meaning of the universe and everything.
Isn't this just a simple description of the awake and sleep states of the brain? According to Hoffman, Penrose, Chalmers, Carrol, Harris, to name a few, consciousness seems to be something much more complex than what I hear here.
why try solve something which is unsolvable..i prefer to let some things remain a mystery , such as UFOS, out of body experiences and..consciousness! It makes life more exciting when we don't try to solve these things. My gut feeling is consciousness is MORE than brain.
@@Dion_Mustard yes but you cant ask for people to not try to solve mysteries , it would just seems that you prefer to believe without checking and fear to be proved wrong. It's science that proved that reality is not real "matter" but an universe of energy and ties. Science is wonderful, scientism is poison. A spiritual person love science because he knows that sooner or later we will know that things are more deeper than what we think (as the example of quantum physic)
@@Dion_Mustard Probably yes ! But lets them go ahead , if they stopped in the 70s we will not have people like Chalmers, Penrose, Hoffman, Kastrup , Tollaksen , HAmmeroff , Tononi , saying that consciousness is "something more"
This is the first interview by Kuhn on the subject of consciousness that is not entirely sophistry, pseudoscience or pseudo theology. Llinas' explanation of frequency is especially good. His use of granularity is also good. Vortex is a little extreme but I like that it correctly implies the impossibility of introspection into the content, so I'll adopt that framing. Llinas uses recurrence, but we would prefer the use of 'recursion' as more precise. (I explain this a consciousness a bit better I think but I avoid the frequency part of the discussion. I should include it.)
I think this vortex explanation is only generating the functionalities of an ant or even a bacteria, "predicting the future and adapt behavior", but not really the exisitence of a concios "self"... besides this also a radio receiver needs exact oscillations to come into resonance and tune in perfectly into surrounding radio waves... They are not generated there, the hardware just tunes into something surrounding... wonder if there exists a theory about that approach to consciosness?
Ok, let's say this "receiver theory of consciousness" is true. We can agree that the very essence of consciousness is something like "being aware", "being home", "live the things personally", "1st person vs 3rd", "feel", "experience", etc. Why is that, if the connection brakes all the above disappears? The logical consequence is that we (conscious bits) "jump right back to the source" and we experience it, we live it, we feel it, we form memories about it, etc. But no such thing is happening during dreamless sleep, instead we cease to exist. If there is even a tiny bit of consciousness in me, and this receiver theory is true, I'd expect a huge tuning up of my consciouness during these connection brakes, since that conscious part is not restricted into the "radio device" any more, but it returns back to the source. But this is not my experience, I simply stop being aware instead.
@@Saldean12 thanks for the good thoughts... But the receiver theory could still hold up... take the batteries out of a radio and it becomes useless "matter", the music or information coming out disappears and won't exist anymore... even so in reality the radio waves ( and information) continues to exist all around it... it could be that also the information of our self continues, but just not in the brain which is only a receiver/doorway and has to tune in perfectly first... ok, so why don't you remember these phases of none existense? First because you are not connected to the memory and maybe you would even be able to but its filtered, similar to after death experiences or previous life memories... I also do not know the answer, but love playing around with these questions :-) And there must be more to it then a biological ilusion which makes up all reality there is... is there a reality without conciosness? I doubt it.. you will always need an observer.
It is like the rest of science a hypothesis awaiting evidence to the contrary. There is no dogma in science although there are at times a lot of stubborn scientist.
@@waerlogauk There need be no evidence to prove the contrary, because it is self evident that mind and body are two distinct substances, and therefore, one can not be explained through the other. Many people think that we would need evidence to prove that the mind is a distinct substance, but this is a category error. The claim that mind is a distinct substance is an identity claim, and identity claims are known to be true or false by simply having a conception of the thing under question. When we have a conception of a table, we can identify it as a table without any evidence, but solely based on understanding what it is.
@@conquer2360 Actually it does, because it is one of those truths that are self evident and can't be given evidence for. For example, the principle of non-contradiction can not be given any evidence for, but we know its truth with absolute certainty because it is self evident.
Coupled oscillators! Homeostasis in coupled oscillators! Coupling mechanismS! Kuramoto model of sychronization: liturgical success exploits a novel, evolutionarily emergent mechanism of coupling.
When we are young the brain has much more REM sleep as a subconscious "parsing" down to the increased 40 hertz integration as "intentional" thinking. So the "single quantum event" is actually called noncommutative phase with the slower frequencies of the heart-mind actually from subharmonics of the Future. A good article on this is Dr. Stuart Hameroff on "free will" - his most read work.
@@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885 yes i like hameroff..he is a man of science and yet believes that consciousness "leaks out" into the universe at the quantum level (entanglement) and remains intact.
It's not exactly accurate that our consciousness does not exists while we are sleeping, because we have lucid dreams, its sort of being conscious, you can make conscious decisions.
In the video, Rodolfo R. Llinás stated the following: *"...When you sleep, you disappear....you don't exist...."* To which I say, nonsense! Because, not only do you and your mind continue to exist, but in the case of a "lucid dreamer," for example, you exist as a unique individualization of personal consciousness (a subjectively-based "agent") that can willfully grasp the holographic-like fabric of your own inner-being and shape it into absolutely anything you desire. In other words, while asleep, your fives senses that were once reaching-out through the five sensory *"windows"* of your body, thus allowing you to experience the phenomenal features of the universe, are now reaching inward into the *"arena"* of your mind and allowing you to create and experience the phenomenal features of your dreams - (which, btw, are composed of three-dimensional structures that seem to be almost as "real" as those we experience outward while awake). Again, the assertion that we no longer exist while asleep is nonsense. _______
Sleeping is not only about dreaming. As a lucid dreamer myself I agree that dreaming is very often feels the same as simply being wakeful. But during the other periods of sleeping (non-dreaming ones) I completely cease to exist. Also note that brain waves while dreaming are similar to the wakeful ones. While your brain produces Delta waves, your inner world doesn't exist any more, also there is noone to experience this nothingness.
@@Saldean12 We may be quibbling over semantics here, but just because you are not acutely aware of anything during certain episodes of sleep, it doesn't mean that you *literally* cease to exist. And that would be similar to the way certain interpretations of quantum mechanics suggest that when no one is observing the moon, that the moon ceases to exist. For indeed, it surely must continue to exist as a fixed and permanent field of information. It's just that (speculatively speaking) the field of information that underpins the construction of the "I" (or the locus of our consciousness) to which we are referring, might be founded upon radically different principles than the information that underpins the material fabric of our brains (as in the old mind vs matter duality). And like something occurring in a parallel universe, it is completely inaccessible to our measuring devices. To understand what I am getting at, imagine creating a tropical island paradise in one of your lucid dreams, in which case, I suggest that it would be impossible for neurophysicists to create an apparatus that could reach into that dream and literally measure the distance between one of its palm trees and that of the ocean water. Again, we are talking about something (i.e., the inner-dimension of your own personal mind) that is akin to an inaccessible parallel universe that you - and you alone - can experience. And no, electroencephalograms, or fMRI machines that detect "hotspots" in the brain when someone is dreaming about something, cannot do what I am suggesting. _______
@@holgerjrgensen2166 How does the concept of "Eternity" (which is simply a word meaning infinite time) have anything to do with the manifestation of the "I" of a human mind?
When you sleep you don’t exist? Not necessarily - you don’t remember - what’s the difference? It is possible to be lucid during dreamless sleep, it’s a part of the Tibetan practice of dream yoga - again what of memory? These claims about non-existence during sleep are not provable, they may actually be questions about memory rather than questions of the existence or non-existence of mind.
the West defines existence based on external visual measurements hence the "time-frequency uncertainty principle." The "clear light" of Awareness in Tibetan yoga is achieved via listening as "noncommutative phase" aka nondualism or the "three in one unity."
@@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885 - ah yes, Rigpa, good stuff, thank you for your reply. I had not heard of the ‘three in one unity’ though, I will look that up, if you have any references I’d be interested. Thank you again.
you do exist when you sleep...when you sleep your brain is still extremely active and different levels of consciousness exist when brain is functioning, and indeed when brain is not functioning. look up "non-locality" of consciousness.
@@quentinkumba6746 :) it just proves that scientists like Rodolfo Llinas don't have a clue what they are saying regarding consciousness..he starts by talking about how people don't exist when they sleep...he is immediately INCORRECT from the beginning. So I didn't watch the rest.
I don’t think I cease to exist when I fall asleep??? I definitely still exist. Someone could argue that you’re not having a conscious experience but I would argue that dreaming is a conscious experience. And times when I am not perceiving anything time seems skip forward to when I wake up and then I am once again perceiving again. So I am never not perceiving or having experience
*THERE CAN ONLY BE 1 TRUTH* How do you think one can go about attaining a balanced point of, being, within the moment of, Now? An equilibrium of: learning and understanding, the language, of the Spirit (mind) and simultaneously, maintaining/developing fluency in the language of the, flesh - without excessive fixation on just one part, whilst neglecting the other side? I have come to an understanding that, to me, one's mind communicates in its own form of language, within the kingdom of one'sThought. Thereby, that language is then translated into the language of the, flesh in order for one to share a thought with a friend, for example.(in our case, English) This is why - 'thought', I think, when its inside your head (mind) can be crystal clear, almost like simultaneous existence within an alternate reality. However, an attempt to articulate that language of the Spirit into this language of the flesh, sometimes isn't as smooth in translation! Any opinion on it?
QUESTION: Why a perfectly healthy brain becomes completely useless if the heart stops beating? ANSWER: Because the conscious self dwells in the heart, not in the brain.
yes for example a NEW smell is perceived from the REM theta brain waves - this oscillates with the "default mode network" of the brain. So wandering thoughts are not the same as a new external attention. So it's like a micro-cycle of the larger cycle of sleep, etc. yet passing as a rhythm of attention through repetitive motions. So then psychedelics will shut down one part of this cycle for example - and focus on the REM cycle more. And so the resonance is a "coherence" that integrates different phases of frequency and time. This is enabled through "noncommutative phase" - study Hameroff and Penrose for details.
Neither the brain nor the mind can explain what only a human being can explain. It is not because of the above that the question does not make sense; it makes no sense as long as it is not clarified what is meant by “explain”. Human language has always set a trap for us that scientists and philosophers have not been able to avoid. Can you get out of this trap? Yes, but for this you have to start by studying what language is about.
Would we even know what braiins were if there were no consciousness? Would they exist? So we construct the idea of "a brain" and apply it to this wet object inside of the skull and conjecture that this wet object is the cause of our ability to discover it: some twisted thinking going on here.
Brain only stores mind..it most likely does NOT produce it..we have come so far with scientific and philosophical concepts of mind and consciousness but no closer to fathoming it...my theory...and before anyone starts I am NOT remotely religious, is that consciousness is something entirely unique and NOT a product of matter. look up "non-locality" of mind and consciousness by dr pim van lommel. It's most fascinating.
So the question remains if we are just a biological machine then what happens if we consciously search out the biological origin of our thoughts. All thoughts are based on the I-thought. To whom does the I-thought refer to? It's a perfectly logical inquiry based on logical inference. Start out by repeating I-I-I-I-I-I in your "consciousness" and NOT as a meaningless mantra but rather as the origin of all thought. Whenever a thought arises - remind yourself that such thought is from the "I of the Vortex" that is thinking the thought. Focus solely on the VORTEX as the source of the I-thought. Then logically infer that there must be some kind of Vortex that remains even when the I-thought vanishes. LISTEN to the source of this I-thought as the vortex directly. Let us know what you discover - it might take you a lot of practice though. Good luck.
you do exist when you sleep and you exist when you have coma and anaesthesia..the "old school" concepts of awareness and consciousness are no longer relevant...consciousness is MORE than brain. period.
How this man could explain NDEs... because no brain activity and a state of consciousness hyper active.. I think we miss something. May be we have to separate consciousness and spirit or mind.
its called "NEAR" death experience for a reason. those people didnt die. they had brain activity. people who died dont talk about their experiences because they are dead
@@spatrk6634 no they were clinically dead. Document the topic and you will be surprised. Raymond Moody did a great job but you can find a LOT of studies on the topic. Check out Pam Reynolds case. Her brain was totally inactive. And they all live the most vivid experiences of their life. May be we need to rename NDE by BTL (back to life) experiences.
@@spatrk6634 Not really, that's why it's interesting... people die for minutes and there is no brain function or even if there is some, there is definitely not consciousness. They come back and then tell all kinds of complex events that would need very well working brain. Or they tell things that happened around the body while it was considered dead. It's an interesting topic and i would like to see more about it on this channel too
@@popeck27 regarding pam reynolds the anesthesiologist says she experienced "anesthesia awareness" and that you cannot remember anything if your brain was off. so what she experienced was before the blood went out of her head, or whatever happened to her i forgot. anyway, im skeptical about these claims. same as i am skeptical about claims of people who were abducted by aliens and i always look for alternative, more natural explanation. but i dont accept neither. im not choosing any side regarding these kind of topics. im just trying to look at it objectively
@@TheScure im skeptical because there are people who want to use these events as anecdotal evidence for their agendas. like earning money by selling the book. so im not sure about the method that was used to conclude that they experienced something supernatural when there are numerous natural explanations of what happened. in science, personal testimony is weakest evidence, so weak in fact that its scary that personal testimonies are used as one of the highest form of evidene in courts.
@@Dion_Mustard The idea that the brain can explain the mind was disproved by Gödel's Incompleteness Theorems, which show concepts and activities cannot be reduced to objects.
Regarding the process of thought, why are some persons genuine beings, highly spiritual, convicted, humanitarian, of nature, animals, while others are just materialistic, superficial, self absored, motivated by external things such as money. What effects the mind. Or is the mind Spiritual and those who are not spiritual haven't a mind -- so they're materialists only.
Out of Body states are NOT illusions. I agree on that. I have had an OBE myself and I can tell you now, it was NO illusion. As for the skeptic who would tell me it WAS an illusion, well they did NOT have the experience so they can zip their lips shut!
The cosmos is the mind of God. Knowledge(light): photon come out of consciousness. I think our photon soul( light body) is what enables mind in person -- effecting being, personality, feeling, philosophy; and where reason in agency, conviction, intention, merit come from. Because the brain alone cannot pronounce such quality. I always wondered why some people are not Spiritual, Divine, convicted or have an inclination of some type to carry out a task that is beyond this physical world. Why some people just go along, having nothing of value so protecting, or of nature and earth so maintaining and guarding. I now think it's old souls -- reiencarnated beings -- have a greater connection to life, nature, balance, spirit etc. The younger souls only know the material, so their drive, motivation comes from material gain; where Spiritual beings have their motivation, conviction, tasts from Spirit, life, nature. The mind is Spiritual, connected to the cosmos: mind of God(consciousness). And then there was light. And the word became flesh.
One of the best presentations on consciousness in this series.
THE best explanation of what is happening in brain or what we call consciousness.
The mystery remains: why does it feels like something on the inside to *be* those processes in the brain? Why can't every single process Rodolfo describes go on mechanistically with no internal subjective experience?
Still interesting in a different way.
the mystery will ALWAYS remain, thankfully..why try solve something which is unsolvable? :)
It’s “THE” GLITCH the driving force is curiosity consciousness is mystery
I just love what Alan Watts said:
Everything ""outside"" of you is a
STATE OF AFFAIRS """INSIDE YOUR HEAD""".
A CONDITION OF YOUR NERVOUS SYSTEM.
Give it whatever name or description you want, words just try to explain what is
" within you ",
your interpretation of whatever.
Many of the processes he's speaking of, are functions of the cerebellum. The problem with using this kind of criteria to gauge consciousness, is that when I appear unconscious externally... internally, I am highly conscious in a dream, and typically oblivious to the memories of my external "real" life, but with full compliment of memories that coincide with the "dream" life. If memories of events in real life bleed into this state, they feel like the remembered dream.
There's nothing in his description of this hypothesis that even slightly begins to address the Hard Problem.
edit: Not saying he’s wrong as far as his ideas go, or that what he’s saying doesn’t have value - just that there’s not even an attempt here to explain how it is that brain processes are accompanied by conscious experience.
And experience is what makes a mind a mind. It’s what separates mere information processing from actual consciousness, and it’s what the “Hard Problem of Consciousness” is all about.
And it’s a problem for which nobody has put forth even a rough sketch of a guess at a speculative hypothesis - at least not one that is purely physical and doesn’t involve any miracles, brute facts, inexplicable strong emergence, etc. I can’t even begin to conceive of what such a hypothesis would look like, so this is not surprising...
Then that should tell you then,he doesn't know! ....
@@ddoubleewhome7863 - The thing is that I’m not sure he knows that he doesn’t know.
It seems like a lot of really brilliant people just don’t (or can’t) “see” the Hard Problem for some reason. I totally didn’t “see” it until my early 30s. Not sure how I missed it for so long... 🤔
👻 =/= 🧠
gotta feel bad for Dr Llinas.
What a wonderful explanation this is!!!!
on a reductionist , materialist stand point yes. otherwise you classify it as bullshit .
Any illusion presumes a person who is seeing the illusion. If consciousness itself is an illusion, there is no one to see the illusion. So, just drop that option
I also think so
I think those who are foolish enough to suggest consciousness is an illusion are prisoners of a very strong dogmatic view that nothing mysterious exists. They fear, if they admitted that something mysterious could not be explained in the current framework of fundamental physics, might as well go to church or something.
You can argue everything about consciousness is illusory, but the pure awareness of the illusory perceptions can never be gotten rid of.
@@DestroManiak And if pure awareness is like a static from the phase changes, then that can be disregarded too! No matter how it appears to us, this comes later anyway. So a person (actually comprised of many non-human elements) looking in a mirror....
Interesting perspective but I wonder is consciousness really not present when sleeping? Dreaming etc? It seems sleeping is just another form of consciousness albeit less obvious for the body at rest.
As a kid growing up, I was told I was body mind and soul. Now the intellectual class says there’s mind body problem but there’s probably no mind just body. The tripartite theory makes more sense to me.
Yes because it's a nice wish that somehow, miraculously enables a belief that you're immortal.. how convenient..
study quantum biology to retrieve the triparttite theory. Dr. Jack Tuszinski is a good start.
Mind is a metaphor for the patterns in the brain. It's a job for neuroscience to find the correlations.
Not.
You don't disappear when you sleep though. The brain is just as active while you're asleep as when you're awake.
You're conscious, it's just most times you don't remember. When someone wakes you up, whether it's NREM or REM sleep, you're likely to remember a dream of some kind.
When you wake up, you sense some amount of time has passed. Sleep is an altered state of conscious, but there's still "something" or "someone" there. You experience qualia (though there is certainly some philosophical argument to be had over whether or not you're truly conscious if you didn't remember it).
Contrast this with general anesthesia, in which case you truly do "disappear." Most people who undergo GA report it's like taking two reams of film and stitching the edges together. You count backwards from 10 then blink, and suddenly you're somewhere else. You have no sense that any time has passed, but it's probably been hours, you're in the recovery room, etc...
"The frequency tells you..." Well, YEAH! Driving function/transfer function: i get hippocampus/hypothalimus mixed up.... and i might continue that ambiguity for a bit. The Nyquist theorem has application here, i think: we see a continuois flow as opposed to a series of still frames.
Psychedelics totally dampen neurological activity, yet people on psychedelics have the most vivid subjective experiences.
I love it when they use the same words i use. "i of the vortex" rocks!!
It's a great book - that's the title of his book, "I of the Vortex."
His explanation went unchallenged. Why don’t you then create a frequency of your own and develop a consciousness from it. And when I’m asleep why is my frequency creating another reality.
and many other things ...
Many..
Echidna has a LARGER prefrontal cortex than humans, relative to the whole brain but the Echidna does NOT dream - and therefore it's "intentional planning" is very limited. Dreaming is all the INHIIBITED subconscious perceptions that get processed "OFF LINE" so that the 40 Hertz "mind" as the Binding Mechanism can stay focused on predicting at intentional planning. So DREAMING is what creates the long-term memories stored with our subconsciousness as an integrated knowledge system. Without dreaming then we have to process the subconscious perceptions in "real time" and so we have to stay focused on the intention of the "now" all the time. This is what meditation does.
He is talking about a frequency of neural circuits. EEG measures them and one can then correlate them to certain states. For example, the absence of 40 hz correlates strongly to the absence of consciousness.
That´s not the essence of scientific explanation. We can explain the pull of tides, yet can´t reproduce the gravity that causes it. We can explain the mechanics of evolution, yet we can´t replicate the clockwork that puts it into motion.
Seems like a very valuable insight, but it could be analogous to a computer turning on rather than capturing what the software is doing. For me, there's no doubt that the brain houses the mind - but thinking may involve the manipulation of ideas, as ideas, rather than "mere neurons running downhill".
Llinas might be my favorite guest ever on the show.
Conscience is important. Conscience not exist life are not possible. Coma sleep conscience break brains funcions. Thank you.
Amazingly clear explanation. Linking awake state and consciousness seems so simple (now that the Doc explained it 😇)
One is still conscious when asleep.
@@brianmason2368 what about when one is in a coma? And it is generally accepted that one is not conscious when under an anaesthetic.
If you mean by "consciousness" that our bodies are still running, that is not really phenomenal consciousness.
Best way to hypothesize about consciousness is to look at muscle cells since brains evolve with the sensorimotor system. Just as muscle cells combine to enact forces on our bones, neurons are performing a similar process by performing some type of synchronicity of their internal metabolic processes or forming Supercells that slow down the reality of the shorter event horizons which are much shorter respectively at the inorganic, organic or simple cellular levels. Just like any other process in nature we can say consciousness is "down there" at those levels but emerges into this waking objective reality via the processes he describes. It is also down there because it emerges up from the more fundamental reticular processes. He should interview Mark Solms. Heidegger's work of Being and Time or being-ness is more fundamental and emerges into a world of time and objective reality.
*Can anybody plz tell me what exactly is conciousness in simple words ?*
Temperature, heat, energy, electric, magneticism, manifestation, creation... Spirit being the highest on the scale, is God and nature, is life and ever changing, transformational. Everything is light, everything come from light. Our soul is photon. Light is knowledge, thus there is consciousness of knowledge.
God is fullfilling like the fountain of youth.
Consciousness is God.
no one really know ... that guy probably less than me and you
Complex awareness. Birds in a flock build an awareness field with their calls, humans have internalized this field, and yet mimic the birds in creating culture, so both at once. Simple awareness is the ability to discern differences and could be several things, a God force or something like the static from movement or phase change, or an internal structure like the video describes produces it, a vortex or conduit tuned to 40 Hz.
Is the fact that we experience stuff and we are alive and personal when there could be only philosophical zombies in our places doing the same exact things including asking about consciousness. Because even the consciousness our body-brain speak of is not the same thing we experience internally. 😂
Consciousness is the language of reality that tells itself about itself.
So i exist as a 40 hertz cycle in my brain? are you sure i'm not a 42 hertz cycle??? 42 being the answer to the meaning of the universe and everything.
How does the do on to explain mind? Is mind simply just the brain “thinking” or neurons firing?
Isn't this just a simple description of the awake and sleep states of the brain? According to Hoffman, Penrose, Chalmers, Carrol, Harris, to name a few, consciousness seems to be something much more complex than what I hear here.
he is still in his ideas that are 50 years old .
why try solve something which is unsolvable..i prefer to let some things remain a mystery , such as UFOS, out of body experiences and..consciousness! It makes life more exciting when we don't try to solve these things. My gut feeling is consciousness is MORE than brain.
@@Dion_Mustard yes but you cant ask for people to not try to solve mysteries , it would just seems that you prefer to believe without checking and fear to be proved wrong. It's science that proved that reality is not real "matter" but an universe of energy and ties. Science is wonderful, scientism is poison. A spiritual person love science because he knows that sooner or later we will know that things are more deeper than what we think (as the example of quantum physic)
@@francesco5581 well said, but why try solve things which are unsolvable. consciousness IS unsolvable.
@@Dion_Mustard Probably yes ! But lets them go ahead , if they stopped in the 70s we will not have people like Chalmers, Penrose, Hoffman, Kastrup , Tollaksen , HAmmeroff , Tononi , saying that consciousness is "something more"
This is the first interview by Kuhn on the subject of consciousness that is not entirely sophistry, pseudoscience or pseudo theology.
Llinas' explanation of frequency is especially good. His use of granularity is also good. Vortex is a little extreme but I like that it correctly implies the impossibility of introspection into the content, so I'll adopt that framing.
Llinas uses recurrence, but we would prefer the use of 'recursion' as more precise. (I explain this a consciousness a bit better I think but I avoid the frequency part of the discussion. I should include it.)
Excellent
Can brain explain brain?
ha x
He explained many functions of consciousness well to me, but didn't quite explain some complexities leading to the functions 🥴 at least to me 🙄🙌🏽🤓😎
Oh thats about it, this is closer to the truth of consciousness and how it unfolds.
This is arguably the most valuable video on TH-cam.
nah , are 50 years old theories .
I think this vortex explanation is only generating the functionalities of an ant or even a bacteria, "predicting the future and adapt behavior", but not really the exisitence of a concios "self"... besides this also a radio receiver needs exact oscillations to come into resonance and tune in perfectly into surrounding radio waves... They are not generated there, the hardware just tunes into something surrounding... wonder if there exists a theory about that approach to consciosness?
Ok, let's say this "receiver theory of consciousness" is true. We can agree that the very essence of consciousness is something like "being aware", "being home", "live the things personally", "1st person vs 3rd", "feel", "experience", etc. Why is that, if the connection brakes all the above disappears? The logical consequence is that we (conscious bits) "jump right back to the source" and we experience it, we live it, we feel it, we form memories about it, etc. But no such thing is happening during dreamless sleep, instead we cease to exist.
If there is even a tiny bit of consciousness in me, and this receiver theory is true, I'd expect a huge tuning up of my consciouness during these connection brakes, since that conscious part is not restricted into the "radio device" any more, but it returns back to the source. But this is not my experience, I simply stop being aware instead.
@@Saldean12 thanks for the good thoughts... But the receiver theory could still hold up... take the batteries out of a radio and it becomes useless "matter", the music or information coming out disappears and won't exist anymore... even so in reality the radio waves ( and information) continues to exist all around it... it could be that also the information of our self continues, but just not in the brain which is only a receiver/doorway and has to tune in perfectly first... ok, so why don't you remember these phases of none existense? First because you are not connected to the memory and maybe you would even be able to but its filtered, similar to after death experiences or previous life memories... I also do not know the answer, but love playing around with these questions :-) And there must be more to it then a biological ilusion which makes up all reality there is... is there a reality without conciosness? I doubt it.. you will always need an observer.
The great dogma of science is the idea that the mind can be explained through the brain.
It is like the rest of science a hypothesis awaiting evidence to the contrary. There is no dogma in science although there are at times a lot of stubborn scientist.
@@waerlogauk There need be no evidence to prove the contrary, because it is self evident that mind and body are two distinct substances, and therefore, one can not be explained through the other. Many people think that we would need evidence to prove that the mind is a distinct substance, but this is a category error. The claim that mind is a distinct substance is an identity claim, and identity claims are known to be true or false by simply having a conception of the thing under question. When we have a conception of a table, we can identify it as a table without any evidence, but solely based on understanding what it is.
@@danzo1711 Saying that you don't need evidence doesn´t make it any easier to believe it
@@conquer2360 Actually it does, because it is one of those truths that are self evident and can't be given evidence for. For example, the principle of non-contradiction can not be given any evidence for, but we know its truth with absolute certainty because it is self evident.
There is no mind-body duality because the brain is a mental creation.
Amazing
If I smile a lot and I speak dramatically then I can make mere materialism seem like spiritualism. Whee!
lol
Correct, he is “ full” of it.
Coupled oscillators! Homeostasis in coupled oscillators! Coupling mechanismS! Kuramoto model of sychronization: liturgical success exploits a novel, evolutionarily emergent mechanism of coupling.
Everything will be fully explained when we know how the brain works. We don't know that at the moment.
Hardly
Why not ask the heart?
Could consciousness be a single quantum event on this vortex? From the beginning to the end of the life?
When we are young the brain has much more REM sleep as a subconscious "parsing" down to the increased 40 hertz integration as "intentional" thinking. So the "single quantum event" is actually called noncommutative phase with the slower frequencies of the heart-mind actually from subharmonics of the Future. A good article on this is Dr. Stuart Hameroff on "free will" - his most read work.
@@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885 yes i like hameroff..he is a man of science and yet believes that consciousness "leaks out" into the universe at the quantum level (entanglement) and remains intact.
Do you mind?
It's not exactly accurate that our consciousness does not exists while we are sleeping, because we have lucid dreams, its sort of being conscious, you can make conscious decisions.
Well said…he is a clueless materialist who doesn’t realize we are “ always” conscious.
In the video, Rodolfo R. Llinás stated the following: *"...When you sleep, you disappear....you don't exist...."* To which I say, nonsense! Because, not only do you and your mind continue to exist, but in the case of a "lucid dreamer," for example, you exist as a unique individualization of personal consciousness (a subjectively-based "agent") that can willfully grasp the holographic-like fabric of your own inner-being and shape it into absolutely anything you desire. In other words, while asleep, your fives senses that were once reaching-out through the five sensory *"windows"* of your body, thus allowing you to experience the phenomenal features of the universe, are now reaching inward into the *"arena"* of your mind and allowing you to create and experience the phenomenal features of your dreams - (which, btw, are composed of three-dimensional structures that seem to be almost as "real" as those we experience outward while awake).
Again, the assertion that we no longer exist while asleep is nonsense.
_______
Sleeping is not only about dreaming. As a lucid dreamer myself I agree that dreaming is very often feels the same as simply being wakeful. But during the other periods of sleeping (non-dreaming ones) I completely cease to exist. Also note that brain waves while dreaming are similar to the wakeful ones. While your brain produces Delta waves, your inner world doesn't exist any more, also there is noone to experience this nothingness.
@@Saldean12
We may be quibbling over semantics here, but just because you are not acutely aware of anything during certain episodes of sleep, it doesn't mean that you *literally* cease to exist. And that would be similar to the way certain interpretations of quantum mechanics suggest that when no one is observing the moon, that the moon ceases to exist. For indeed, it surely must continue to exist as a fixed and permanent field of information.
It's just that (speculatively speaking) the field of information that underpins the construction of the "I" (or the locus of our consciousness) to which we are referring, might be founded upon radically different principles than the information that underpins the material fabric of our brains (as in the old mind vs matter duality). And like something occurring in a parallel universe, it is completely inaccessible to our measuring devices.
To understand what I am getting at, imagine creating a tropical island paradise in one of your lucid dreams, in which case, I suggest that it would be impossible for neurophysicists to create an apparatus that could reach into that dream and literally measure the distance between one of its palm trees and that of the ocean water. Again, we are talking about something (i.e., the inner-dimension of your own personal mind) that is akin to an inaccessible parallel universe that you - and you alone - can experience.
And no, electroencephalograms, or fMRI machines that detect "hotspots" in the brain when someone is dreaming about something, cannot do what I am suggesting.
_______
The ''I'' and Eternity, is the very same reality, there fore The ''I'' cannot be created or constructed, in any way.
@@holgerjrgensen2166
How does the concept of "Eternity" (which is simply a word meaning infinite time) have anything to do with the manifestation of the "I" of a human mind?
Time, are the effect/result of Motion,
We, the ''I'' is Not motion.
Thoughts are motion.
This needed to be challenged. I don’t see where he’s addressing the question. Can brain explain mind?
When you sleep you don’t exist? Not necessarily - you don’t remember - what’s the difference? It is possible to be lucid during dreamless sleep, it’s a part of the Tibetan practice of dream yoga - again what of memory? These claims about non-existence during sleep are not provable, they may actually be questions about memory rather than questions of the existence or non-existence of mind.
the West defines existence based on external visual measurements hence the "time-frequency uncertainty principle." The "clear light" of Awareness in Tibetan yoga is achieved via listening as "noncommutative phase" aka nondualism or the "three in one unity."
@@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885 - ah yes, Rigpa, good stuff, thank you for your reply. I had not heard of the ‘three in one unity’ though, I will look that up, if you have any references I’d be interested. Thank you again.
you do exist when you sleep...when you sleep your brain is still extremely active and different levels of consciousness exist when brain is functioning, and indeed when brain is not functioning. look up "non-locality" of consciousness.
@@Dion_Mustard - good comment mate, thank you.
@@quentinkumba6746 :) it just proves that scientists like Rodolfo Llinas don't have a clue what they are saying regarding consciousness..he starts by talking about how people don't exist when they sleep...he is immediately INCORRECT from the beginning. So I didn't watch the rest.
I don’t think I cease to exist when I fall asleep??? I definitely still exist. Someone could argue that you’re not having a conscious experience but I would argue that dreaming is a conscious experience. And times when I am not perceiving anything time seems skip forward to when I wake up and then I am once again perceiving again. So I am never not perceiving or having experience
*THERE CAN ONLY BE 1 TRUTH*
How do you think one can go about attaining a balanced point of, being, within the moment of, Now?
An equilibrium of: learning and understanding, the language, of the Spirit (mind) and simultaneously, maintaining/developing fluency in the language of the, flesh - without excessive fixation on just one part, whilst neglecting the other side?
I have come to an understanding that, to me, one's mind communicates in its own form of language, within the kingdom of one'sThought.
Thereby, that language is then translated into the language of the, flesh in order for one to share a thought with a friend, for example.(in our case, English)
This is why - 'thought', I think, when its inside your head (mind) can be crystal clear, almost like simultaneous existence within an alternate reality.
However, an attempt to articulate that language of the Spirit into this language of the flesh, sometimes isn't as smooth in translation! Any opinion on it?
That of course is biblical
@@williamesselman3102 Influenced by the Bible, yes. I am however the author seeking understanding of the devine.
Okay
My First thought... That could be an interpretative description of..... Consciousness.
@@koolzjackz8401 which part in particular are you referring to as - an interpretation of Consciousness? Or, All?
QUESTION: Why a perfectly healthy brain becomes completely useless if the heart stops beating?
ANSWER: Because the conscious self dwells in the heart, not in the brain.
Do you mean that there is some kind of RESONANCE happening between brain's anatomy and our other sensory systems?
yes for example a NEW smell is perceived from the REM theta brain waves - this oscillates with the "default mode network" of the brain. So wandering thoughts are not the same as a new external attention. So it's like a micro-cycle of the larger cycle of sleep, etc. yet passing as a rhythm of attention through repetitive motions. So then psychedelics will shut down one part of this cycle for example - and focus on the REM cycle more. And so the resonance is a "coherence" that integrates different phases of frequency and time. This is enabled through "noncommutative phase" - study Hameroff and Penrose for details.
Neither the brain nor the mind can explain what only a human being can explain. It is not because of the above that the question does not make sense; it makes no sense as long as it is not clarified what is meant by “explain”. Human language has always set a trap for us that scientists and philosophers have not been able to avoid.
Can you get out of this trap?
Yes, but for this you have to start by studying what language is about.
This is great!!!
The basic functions of the brain is everything we do!!
You guys are trying to our smart your own brains using your own brains.
Can Brain Explain Mind? What else can?
The mind is asomatous. And the brain is somatous.
Would we even know what braiins were if there were no consciousness? Would they exist? So we construct the idea of "a brain" and apply it to this wet object inside of the skull and conjecture that this wet object is the cause of our ability to discover it: some twisted thinking going on here.
When you sleep you don't exist, well yes like death it seems , right?
Brain only stores mind..it most likely does NOT produce it..we have come so far with scientific and philosophical concepts of mind and consciousness but no closer to fathoming it...my theory...and before anyone starts I am NOT remotely religious, is that consciousness is something entirely unique and NOT a product of matter. look up "non-locality" of mind and consciousness by dr pim van lommel. It's most fascinating.
:you dont exist when sleep" Wrong sir my brains works, dreans sleepwalker nightmare their funcions.
So the question remains if we are just a biological machine then what happens if we consciously search out the biological origin of our thoughts. All thoughts are based on the I-thought. To whom does the I-thought refer to? It's a perfectly logical inquiry based on logical inference. Start out by repeating I-I-I-I-I-I in your "consciousness" and NOT as a meaningless mantra but rather as the origin of all thought. Whenever a thought arises - remind yourself that such thought is from the "I of the Vortex" that is thinking the thought. Focus solely on the VORTEX as the source of the I-thought. Then logically infer that there must be some kind of Vortex that remains even when the I-thought vanishes. LISTEN to the source of this I-thought as the vortex directly. Let us know what you discover - it might take you a lot of practice though. Good luck.
you do exist when you sleep and you exist when you have coma and anaesthesia..the "old school" concepts of awareness and consciousness are no longer relevant...consciousness is MORE than brain. period.
How this man could explain NDEs... because no brain activity and a state of consciousness hyper active.. I think we miss something. May be we have to separate consciousness and spirit or mind.
its called "NEAR" death experience for a reason.
those people didnt die.
they had brain activity.
people who died dont talk about their experiences because they are dead
@@spatrk6634 no they were clinically dead. Document the topic and you will be surprised. Raymond Moody did a great job but you can find a LOT of studies on the topic. Check out Pam Reynolds case. Her brain was totally inactive. And they all live the most vivid experiences of their life. May be we need to rename NDE by BTL (back to life) experiences.
@@spatrk6634 Not really, that's why it's interesting... people die for minutes and there is no brain function or even if there is some, there is definitely not consciousness.
They come back and then tell all kinds of complex events that would need very well working brain. Or they tell things that happened around the body while it was considered dead. It's an interesting topic and i would like to see more about it on this channel too
@@popeck27 regarding pam reynolds
the anesthesiologist says she experienced "anesthesia awareness" and that you cannot remember anything if your brain was off.
so what she experienced was before the blood went out of her head, or whatever happened to her i forgot.
anyway, im skeptical about these claims.
same as i am skeptical about claims of people who were abducted by aliens
and i always look for alternative, more natural explanation. but i dont accept neither.
im not choosing any side regarding these kind of topics.
im just trying to look at it objectively
@@TheScure im skeptical because there are people who want to use these events as anecdotal evidence for their agendas.
like earning money by selling the book.
so im not sure about the method that was used to conclude that they experienced something supernatural when there are numerous natural explanations of what happened. in science, personal testimony is weakest evidence, so weak in fact that its scary that personal testimonies are used as one of the highest form of evidene in courts.
😊🌎⏳🙏♥️
Another waste of time listening to this nonsense. If this show is getting any closer to the truth, it's imperceptibly slow.
They're being intellectually dishonest with (a large percentage of) the viewers.
keep an open mind, mr howard the skeptic.
@@Dion_Mustard The idea that the brain can explain the mind was disproved by Gödel's Incompleteness Theorems, which show concepts and activities cannot be reduced to objects.
Does the crazy people have a crazy soul?
Mind is nothing but a thought process
Regarding the process of thought, why are some persons genuine beings, highly spiritual, convicted, humanitarian, of nature, animals, while others are just materialistic, superficial, self absored, motivated by external things such as money.
What effects the mind.
Or is the mind Spiritual and those who are not spiritual haven't a mind -- so they're materialists only.
How do you suppose matter thinks?
qualia too?
@@dimaniak The Sāṅkhya philosophy from the Vedas indicates souls create conscience, conscience creates false ego, false ego creates intellect, intellect creates mind, mind creates sensations (qualia), and sensations create physical objects.
Mind is MORE than brain. Anyone who thinks different, such as Yogendra, needs an education!
I want to point out that Llinas is on the same positions from 1969 . I was yet to be born ...
How does the "vortex" have out-of-body experiences? And don't give me that old school hallucination BS.
Out of Body states are NOT illusions. I agree on that. I have had an OBE myself and I can tell you now, it was NO illusion. As for the skeptic who would tell me it WAS an illusion, well they did NOT have the experience so they can zip their lips shut!
The cosmos is the mind of God.
Knowledge(light): photon come out of consciousness.
I think our photon soul( light body) is what enables mind in person -- effecting being, personality, feeling, philosophy; and where reason in agency, conviction, intention, merit come from. Because the brain alone cannot pronounce such quality.
I always wondered why some people are not Spiritual, Divine, convicted or have an inclination of some type to carry out a task that is beyond this physical world. Why some people just go along, having nothing of value so protecting, or of nature and earth so maintaining and guarding.
I now think it's old souls -- reiencarnated beings -- have a greater connection to life, nature, balance, spirit etc. The younger souls only know the material, so their drive, motivation comes from material gain; where Spiritual beings have their motivation, conviction, tasts from Spirit, life, nature.
The mind is Spiritual, connected to the cosmos: mind of God(consciousness).
And then there was light.
And the word became flesh.
BS
Follow Jesus Christ
For God so love the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life